Viva El Birdos: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:

Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Steve McNair Found Shot to Death

Game 38 Open Thread

Ulquiorra2_tiny by the red baron on Comment 458 comments

  

Pineiro_joel_mediumSheets_ben_medium

Joel Pineiro             Ben Sheets

  2-2, 4.33                    4-0, 2.29 

Rumours abound that Chris Perez is on his way to help the big club, but so far, nothing confirmable.  If it is, in fact, the case, I must say I'm impressed by the alacrity with which this move was made.  I wasn't expecting such a quick response to the current 'pen woes. I hope it's true; I'm excited to see the kid get a chance at the big league level. 

Sheets has been downright nasty at times this year, but, as always, has been a little banged up.  The Cardinals seem to usually do pretty well against ol' Ben- let's hope that's the case today. 

Go Cards!

0 recs | Comment 458 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Well.

We should know real soon if Perez is coming up unless it isn’t happening till Monday.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on May 10, 2008 2:13 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That would be one of the fastest responses to a struggling closer I think I've seen.

Man it stinks to take a 3 game losing streak into a game against Ben Sheets.

by TheBirds on May 10, 2008 2:23 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Especially...

when it should have been 4 wins in 5 days instead.

by svengali on May 10, 2008 2:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd say

could, not should.

At the end of the day, Izzy’s woes or not, it still took a series of batters on the other team to win it. Like it or not, the Rockies earned their win. They slammed balls for triples against an out of position player.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 2:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'd say should

Izzy should of done his job and the Cards should have won 4 of their last 5

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on May 10, 2008 2:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually, I thought the game Franklin was in, when we won 6-5, is the game that woke up their bats.

I had a bad feeling that the Rockies were going to win the next day after coming so close.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on May 10, 2008 2:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

mixed feelings

I’m happy for Chris Perez, and hope that he is able to close well for the Cards, which means I’m also happy for the Cards to have a new closer.
On the sad side of things however, I feel bad for Izzy. He’s been a very effective closer throughout his career and has helped the Cards for quite some time. He is however apparently past his prime, which is sad considering I’m the same age as Izzy and don’t consider myself past my prime. Hearing that Edmonds has been released and that Izzy is having such major problems really makes you think about the longevity of players and how few of them know when to hang it up. I could probably write more but need to spend some time with the kids.

by sbentley on May 10, 2008 2:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Papelbon just bew two games maybe the Sox would trade for IZZy ala Gagne ???

That would be a sweet deal for us eh?

Send us over Jed Lowrie for Izzy and Reyes.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on May 10, 2008 2:36 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

heh

Papelbon = Izzy + Reyes? j/k

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on May 10, 2008 2:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes ...

I am joking.

I think Papelbon will be just fine…

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on May 10, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but it goes to show

that even the best closers in their prime aren’t automatic, far from it.

If our defense was better and our LOB was lower, last night shouldn’t even have been a one run game to begin with, matter in fact I’d say most of the times we’ve had blown saves we should have been out of a save scenario as it was.

That doesn’t discount the lack of authority that Izzy has been having, but it shows that if you don’t want to get in a blown save situation, get some more damn runs to begin with.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 2:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree that even the best have an off day but Izzy has definetly lost a step all of the sudden.

He has blown 5 almost as many as he has saved with an ERA over 7. He is toast at the moment.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on May 10, 2008 2:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

and as you’ve seen, he feels the same. Going out on the mound feels like deadman walking

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 2:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes.

For him to come out and say he shouldn’t be closing must mean something is seriously wrong. ALthough I really respect it because that is what I said under my breath after the game last night as I ranted to my girlfirend while she blankly stared back like I do to her when she talks shoes.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on May 10, 2008 2:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

at least that last line

took the sad thoughts out of my mind for a bit anyway.

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 3:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh...

& no.

Lowrie does not equal Izzy and Reyes.

They would have to have a hole in thier heads to deal Lowrie for Izzy and Reyes and Mo one to not pull the trigger right away if they would…

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on May 10, 2008 2:43 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Aaron Miles is starting at third base today...

This has ugly written all over it

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on May 10, 2008 2:44 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"I have a bad feeling about this" - Han Solo

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on May 10, 2008 2:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

aaaaarghaarrwwoorooarrhgh

-Chewy doesn’t like it either

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 3:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now I can die happy

Having finally read a wookie’s cry spelled phonetically.

by effin fisk on May 10, 2008 3:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unbelievble.

With Ryan back, and Kenedy and Izturis contributing, there is no need to ever play Miles outside of 2B (and even that is pushing it). He has neither the range nor the arm to play that position. It is absurd.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 3:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

is Miles .329 slugging %

the lowest ever for a 3b?

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 3:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

didnt ryan make two terrible plays at third yesterday?

I didnt get to see the game, crappy work, but I saw one on replay.

i assume thats why he isnt starting.

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 3:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

plus if iz2 is getting a day off

I’d much rather see miles at third and ryan at short than vice-versa…

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on May 10, 2008 4:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So,

Isringhausen can have a bad week before his job is relinquished; but Ryan can’t have more than a bad game? I prefer SleepyCA’s argument for why Miles is in there. I didn’t realize earlier that Glaus was hurt. I still don’t have much use for Miles, but he’s what we’ve got.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 4:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if ryan plays like an allstar for most of a decade

then he’ll get more benefit of the doubt

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on May 10, 2008 4:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So, ...

does that mean Miles is an All-Star, or has some kind of proven track record of which I’m unaware? Comparing Izzy to Ryan is overstating the situation, but I can’t say that Miles deserves playing time over Ryan at any time. I also did not have an issue with Izzy being given the benefit of the doubt. I’m simply pointing out that LaRussa probably gives veterans too long of a leash and rookies too short of a leash.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 4:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

fair enough

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on May 10, 2008 4:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good lord...

All of the sudden we are short a 3B and a closer.

Looks like the wheels are starting to wobble.

Better get to dealing Mo or bring up some kids. Freese might not be that bad and Uncle Rico would be much better than Miles.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on May 10, 2008 2:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll take the chance of a defensive liability

of Miles over Rico who.. in all of his MLB at bats seemed he couldn’t catch up with a fastball over 90mph. His bat is not anywhere close to MLB level.

With all of the griping about Glaus not heating up, going to miss that smooth glove he’s had

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 2:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Glaus has been a plus plus at 3B...

I didn’t see Rico bat but I remember hearing he had a couple of big ones at the plate where he came through with a hit.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on May 10, 2008 2:52 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

really?

I cant recall him ever hitting when he was up with the club, and he was bad ith the glove.

though I think he has a rep for really hitting donw on the farm

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 3:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

FOX!!!

If you’re going to block me out, you have to do better than a rerun of MA*SH* on your local affiliate

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on May 10, 2008 3:00 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

f

chicago-arizona

It could be worse, you could be on fire.

by themanthemyth on May 10, 2008 3:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe

that storm will hurry the hell up and they will be forced to show the Cards game as the back-up.
Wait, are the Yankees or Red Sox on the game schedule for fox today too?

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 3:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

didnt a week or so ago

if I recall fox had a situation where their game was rained out and instead of picking up the other game they just showed tarps and stuff…?

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 4:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

We were in San Fran and looked at the tarps in the boston/yanks delay

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well obviously

the tarps in a yankees-sox game are more interesting than game action somewhere else

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 4:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

fox here has yanks-tigers

no chance it goes to stl

e'rebuilding mang

by nycbirdo on May 10, 2008 4:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

same in california

but I’ve got radio for free.

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on May 10, 2008 4:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lineups anyone???

I am the only/last Anthony Reyes fan!

by dangpenguins on May 10, 2008 3:08 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

got em now, thanks.

skip
miles – 3b
albert
ankiel
dunc – oh boy, poor luddy
kennedy
molina
jo-el
ryan – ss

I am the only/last Anthony Reyes fan!

by dangpenguins on May 10, 2008 3:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

at least Luddy's OPS won't take a hit

from having to face Sheets. hopefully Duncan can get going, but that’s a tough assignment as well…

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on May 10, 2008 3:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

unfortunately

Sheets ERA won’t take a pounding from having to face Luddy’s bat

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 3:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Larussa Talking

on FOX pregame (local) saying Izzy is out of 9th for awhile, and looks like closer by committee is coming. Izzy will be pitching in “other situations”. Izzy punched a wall, could be on DL. They officially left Perez in memphis.

I am the only/last Anthony Reyes fan!

by dangpenguins on May 10, 2008 3:10 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why do full grown ML players

have to punch walls and throw things in the dugout. I have always thought that was so silly and childish.

by ridgesee on May 10, 2008 3:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Emotion

We ask them to play at 110% all the time.

If I cared about my job as much as I want them to, I’d probably break things when I screwed up too.

by djsmokyc on May 10, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hell, I don't like my job

and I still punch walls

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 3:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's why cubicles

are made from soft spongy cloth. Cuts work-related injuries by 50%.

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on May 10, 2008 3:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm older than any of those guys, including Franco

and I still do it when things at work blow up in my face. It comes with being an emotional and committed person.

Thing is: I make sure to always punch a soft wall.

by StanTheManFan on May 10, 2008 3:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They also reported ...

that he won’t have to be put on the DL, despite the wall punching incident.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 3:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

sounds like he was trying to put himself on the DL

heh. all these last few blown saves have shown that he won’t be used as often and won’t be the de facto closer

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 3:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

pitchers

stop fucking doing that. seriously no one else punches a damn wall.

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 4:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My whole thing is...

why don’t clubs fine pitchers for this crap?

The Cards are paying Izzy $8mil to pitch not to punch. If Izzy breaks his hand, the Cards are out a lot of money for nothing.

Of course, that could’ve been a blessing in disguise. But still! Remember when Kevin Brown did this with the Yankees?

by spants on May 10, 2008 5:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

By definition,

this is not a reasonable moment from the individual. Do you think they are going to stop and think “Oh, I better not punch this. It could cost me money.”? A reasonable person knows that his bread is buttered with that hand. Do you think a fine will make that realization greater for the player?

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 5:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my problem is

its always pitchers, you never see other guys do it.

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 5:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Put down the suitcase, Chris

Kilcoyne says Perez is staying in Memphis for now. Closer by committee approach for now.

by Merry CRasmus on May 10, 2008 3:10 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wonder if Piñeiro is still hurting

Perez makes more sense in StL than Parisi does at this point. Though I guess room on the 40 man needs to be made for him. But still…

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on May 10, 2008 3:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I seriously doubt TLR can veto Mo

Plus I think that if they were going to bring Perez up, TLR is smart enough to know that it would be a GOOD thing

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 3:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, LaRussa can veto Mo

he was given certain assurances by DeWitt when he signed his new contract. I’d have to imagine that this was one of them.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on May 10, 2008 3:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that is the key phrase

you would have to imagine it is one of them. Who knows?

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 3:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if la russa can veto Mo

how did anthony reyes make the opening day roster?

by lboros on May 10, 2008 3:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It took alot of work to get Reyes

onto the team and it’s become pretty clear that he was only here to increase trade value.

If Perez is called up, it’s so that he can be part of the big league team.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on May 10, 2008 4:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it was still done over tony's objections

tony has a lot of influence, but “veto power” is way overstating it

by lboros on May 10, 2008 4:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm sure an agreement was met on Reyes

but look at the Perez situation slightly differently. LaRussa has plenty of reasons not to bring Perez up and make him the closer. Firstly, if he succeeds, he sticks. Izzy is done as the Cardinals closer. LaRussa isn’t ready to make that move yet. If he was, Izzy wouldn’t have been trotted out there the last two times.

I have no idea whether LaRussa stopped this move or not, but I know he was given assurances in his new deal. I’d have to imagine that having control over roster moves (within reason) was one of them.

With Reyes, he could trot him out there whenever he felt comfortable doing so and never really have to worry about Mozeliak dictating playing time for players. With Perez, it’s different. Perez comes up and he is up (if successful) for the next 10 years. He isn’t trade bait. It has much more effect on who LaRussa plays.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on May 10, 2008 4:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you are overstating the Perez situation.

I don’t believe that you have to cement Perez in the closer role immediately just because you bring him up. There is no reason why he couldn’t be eased in as a 7th or 8th inning option. It would give him time to develop against major league hitters without the immediate pressure.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 4:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my point exactly

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 4:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

might be the other way around...

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on May 10, 2008 3:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I tend to agree

Tony does seem to be more agressive with younger players this year, but mo may be protecting that option looking forward

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 3:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the committee

better consist of anyone not named Franklin. Hopefully a trade is in the works that gets Franklin , Reyes, and Miles out and gets Perez and Mather up by Monday

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 3:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At this point

I’m not sure if Springer is any better. I suspect Springer and Franklin get the first cracks at it. But then again, I’m a bit of a cynic.

by Merry CRasmus on May 10, 2008 3:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I realize this is extremely unpopular, but ...

you guys do realize that Franklin’s numbers are this year are actually pretty good, right? Especially after the first week of the season. He’s no shutdown guy, but I don’t think the Cards have anyone at the major league level that is a backup closer. I say alternate between Villone, Springer, Franklin, and KMac for now; and see if Izzy can straighten things out. If that fails, bring up Perez.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 3:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thinking from a long-term perspective,

I’d think that K-Mac has the most potential value in the role. if we give him a shot and he has success, even if it’s just luck, Mo will suddenly have quite the trade chip at the deadline. Some contender with a weak GM (seattle?) might be tricked into giving up something valuable.

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on May 10, 2008 3:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

(and of course)

in a best-case scenario, we might discover that we have something too valuable to trade.

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on May 10, 2008 3:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wouldn't you rather ...

see the value of Franklin or Springer inflated, so that maybe we could unload one of the senior citizens in favor of the younger guys?

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 3:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From a trade prospective

it makes some sense, but do we want to? I mean, K-Mac has given considerable gains in high leverage situations so far this year. But how often do we have a high leverage situation in the 9th?

I mean, I still like the addage of using K-Mac to win the game irregardless of inning. “Win it in the 7th” if we have to. Restricting down his abilities to one inning seems like we could be losing in the end.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 3:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Franklin has been effective

I agree he probably does get a bit of a bad rap on here. Mostly because he’s been a bit of a fluke from a sabermetric perspective.

His stuff doesn’t really fit the mold for a closer. But he’s been getting it done so far. Personally, I’d like to use the guys with the best overall stuff and Guys that miss bats. So I’m a little partial to McClellan and Perez. But point taken, maybe we keep an open mind on it all for a while and see how it plays out. I don’t know if I can help it, but I’ll try.

I do think Perez could be used in a number of roles up here right now, doesn’t have to be closer. I’d like to see him get his opportunity soon. This situation is screaming for it.

by Merry CRasmus on May 10, 2008 3:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm curious how he does it, also.

I just know that when you look at his results, they have been pretty good for us. He’s definitely not a K guy. I would like to see McClellan and Perez get a shot, too. How many of us really thought that LaRussa would give the closer’s spot to Wainwright in ‘06? It shocked the s@#$ out of me. Maybe he’ll decide to use McClellan there. I would like to see McClellan get bumped up to at least the 8th inning spot. It would be nice to see what he can do with the additional pressure.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 3:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, yeah

I know. My mind just tends to remember the last game only sometimes. I need to get it to stop doing that. Shockingly, it does not have that problem when it comes to Izzy.

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 3:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How about we score a packload of runs

and get out of this “to save or not to save” bs? :)

The best way to not worry about a closer is not to be in a situation to need one

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

from your fingers

to their bats!

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 3:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You are right.....it's a lot of pressure on all of the pitchers to have little or no margin for error every game.

It’s hard to maintain-that goes for anyone’s pitching staff, not just the Cardinals. And their run scoring has been fairly anemic most of this season.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on May 10, 2008 3:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

dan???

oh man, just when i thought i was getting a break from our announcers, there is good ole dan. now i get to heal my home helitech on saturday!!!

I am the only/last Anthony Reyes fan!

by dangpenguins on May 10, 2008 3:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Skip first pitch hitting.. sigh

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 3:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol, fair enough

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 3:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sheets is going to dominate us today

the team’s morale is very low and his great talent is going to sink it even further.

As was in the PD today:

“I think everybody is pretty down right now,” Wellemeyer said.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on May 10, 2008 3:44 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not often

is a guy going to earn the record “most strikeouts for X team” on El Hombre’s bat.. but Sheets did.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 3:44 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well, that could have gone better.

let’s go boys, end the streak

e'rebuilding mang

by nycbirdo on May 10, 2008 3:44 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ryan does have pretty good range doesn't he

That first at bat was lined pretty solid and Ryan was still there for the out had Miles been out of position.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 3:49 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no way

miles or glaus or rolen gets that.

I am the only/last Anthony Reyes fan!

by dangpenguins on May 10, 2008 3:52 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Welcome to the Dave Duncan school of pitching.

If a guy has trouble with a certain location, then that is the only place one should pitch him. That has been a hallmark of his pitching philosophy. He believes in pitching low and away, but it doesn’t seem as though he emphasizes setting those pitches up.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 3:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or

why was miles playing almost 15ft off the line?

Every foul was catering to the line, you think he’d play the line tighter with Ryan covering the hole. He’s obviously going to hit it there with those same pitches.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 3:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

MLB blackout is on...

I have been watching the Saturday games until today. They are now implementing the FoX rules.

Sucks.

I’m in CT w/ the damn Yes network and Sox station. How Fox loses business over me watching the game I don’t understand.

On Perez…

The team needs a lift and some energy in the bull pen. I think he would give us a nice jolt after guys watch him throw flames past the opposing batters and know they have a chance.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on May 10, 2008 3:53 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hate saturdays

Although it means I get to listen on audio once a week, which keeps me grounded..

by RiverRat on May 10, 2008 4:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hell

Sheets can pitch two complete games and still be under 100 pitches the way we’re batting

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 3:59 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't you know we're good luck?

if you and i were able to watch, they’d be up 4-0 by now.

e'rebuilding mang

by nycbirdo on May 10, 2008 4:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pin has looked good so far

“so far” being key phrase

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fernando Valenzuela did it in ‘90, none since

and not today

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fernando

was a monster. One of the best preseason features FSNMW had were replays of classic Cards games leading up to the season. I remember watching Game 5 of the NLCS against the Dodgers (the “go crazy folks” game for you young’uns) with the same enthusiasm as I had as a 7 year-old. Fernando was incredibly rough that game.

"Well, folks, this game began as a tiny worm and is blossoming into a large cobra." - Mike "The Moon Man" Shannon

by Tudor's Electric Fan on May 10, 2008 4:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

alright Joel

I’m just watching on gameday, but it lokos like he’s keeping all of his pitches down. good start so far.

by effin fisk on May 10, 2008 4:06 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah yadi.

bloop city!

I am the only/last Anthony Reyes fan!

by dangpenguins on May 10, 2008 4:08 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

man yadi

is slow. good hit ryan

I am the only/last Anthony Reyes fan!

by dangpenguins on May 10, 2008 4:12 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've never heard rooney that excited

about a runner going from first to third on a double

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on May 10, 2008 4:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Look at Yadi's wheels

lol

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:12 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thanks brendan

show the upside

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:13 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

god this brewers radio announcer is terrible

keeps going off on tangents; i have no idea what the game situation is. He’s putting me to sleep. i think brendan ryan might be batting, but I’m not sure; no idea what happened to piniero.

Oh, yes, it was ryan batting. And he did good, hehe.

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on May 10, 2008 4:13 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i had no idea it was bob euker

i thought euker was funny? This guy is as engaging as a upper level mech teacher. Wra wra wra wra wraaaa, wra wraa, wra wraa wra.

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on May 10, 2008 4:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol oh man

i was listening to the home broadcast and completely forgot about Euker! Changed over now….ball 4….ball 8….low and rick vaughn has walked the bases full on 12 straight pitches.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on May 10, 2008 4:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Looks like Fox's scorekeepers found a side job...

"Well, folks, this game began as a tiny worm and is blossoming into a large cobra." - Mike "The Moon Man" Shannon

by Tudor's Electric Fan on May 10, 2008 4:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sadly it was on miles

someone needs to inform him that the keyword is ‘grit’

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Preferrably in the manner of Alec Trebek

I love how many sublevels of “scrappy” we have in the lexicon. It’s almost as lush a vernacular as Eskimos have for “snow”.

"Well, folks, this game began as a tiny worm and is blossoming into a large cobra." - Mike "The Moon Man" Shannon

by Tudor's Electric Fan on May 10, 2008 4:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

can't wait for the day

when we get to choose which game to watch on tv, Fox. or directv. whoever can implement that feature, do it post-haste

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:20 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wtf

houston is 2.5 games out? go away, you pests. hopefully they’ll drop off in the second half instead of streaking at the end

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

isnt that about all

that Kendall does?

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 4:22 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah,

except for the .287 ave, the 10 2Bs and the 10 RBI. Maybe the nearly 100 OPS+.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 4:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

who is the announcer with the lisp?

opposide of Dan?

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 4:25 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

weird that welley and looper

have been better than lohse and piniero

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:27 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yankees are getting a nice start from Rasner today

oops… wrong game. stupid FOX.

I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.

by madding on May 10, 2008 4:28 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice play for Miles

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:29 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I need to hear more about

this blind hog

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 4:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well,

he was from a small town outside of Little Rock … Oh, that’s probably not what you meant. Nevermind.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 4:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why can't the cubs be the reds for a day?

Reds got pummeled in the first game of the DH

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hope they lose today

wasn’t expecting them to win yesterday for some reason

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Upton

bobbled and then sat on the ball as Sori ran. Talk about awful.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it really was pathetic. not just the bobble but just the apathy or stupidness or whatever

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 4:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

shannon said that pujols home run

would have been over 500’ last night if the roof wasn’t closed

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:34 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it was nice

to see him hit one of those monster shots again.

I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.

by madding on May 10, 2008 4:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

More Shannon fun today

Caught this on the broadcast today:

John: “We would like to thank the armed men and women who are being honored here today at the ballpark. Without them we could not enjoy events like this”

Mike: “Astronauts too”

by BerkHHC on May 10, 2008 4:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

only from

The Moonman

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 5:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that was

Awesome.

I still dont see why people hate this guy.
He is pure Gold.

Then again I like Shatner too

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 5:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yanked!

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:36 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i heard he was done...

guess i shouldn’t believe everything I read on teh interweb…

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on May 10, 2008 4:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

holy crip, hes a crapple!

Dunc hits one off of Sheets!

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 4:36 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

dunc

has reasonable numbers against Sheets, but that was a nice hit

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Christmas in May!

"Well, folks, this game began as a tiny worm and is blossoming into a large cobra." - Mike "The Moon Man" Shannon

by Tudor's Electric Fan on May 10, 2008 4:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

way to go Dunc!!

nice to see him hit the ball in the air… or at all for that matter

by TxCardFan on May 10, 2008 4:37 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yaaaaaaay!

gotta love the contributions from struggling players when this team needs a boost.

by effin fisk on May 10, 2008 4:37 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kennedy says ...

wait I think I can do that.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 4:37 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Duncan

must have busted out the good tobacco today.

I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.

by madding on May 10, 2008 4:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tuhbackey

its pronounced Tuh-back-key ;-)

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 4:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

man

if dunc gets his homerun stroke going along with Ludwick, that’s some nice power numbers. not to mention if Glaus can actually start hitting for power

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought he didn't have power anymore

Now I don’t feel so bad about Luddy not being in

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 4:39 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

bad slump is my guess

he needs to make up for his fielding somehow if he’s going to have playing time

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

exactly.

Ive always been a little reticent about switching over to the Luddy bandwaggon, but lately Ive hopped on (how could I not?) and I was wondering why Dunc was starting over him today…

I bet it has somehting to do with sucess in small smaple sizes.

Goes to show supermanager did it again. Maybe Dunc will get on track?

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 4:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no reason not to have two bandwagons...

not done the math yet, but that HR should push Duncan’s OPS over skip’s. if not, it’s very close… Not bad for a guy everyone is giving up on, offensively.

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on May 10, 2008 4:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hell

i am on 5 bandwagons

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 4:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree.

I think it should be like pitching. They should start a rotation.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 4:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hopefully that takes the monkey off his back

While I like Luddy in, I can think of worse things than both of them slugging so well that it’s a constant debate on who’s in and who’s out. Defense set aside

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

finally found the game

thank you, tvants

I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.

by madding on May 10, 2008 4:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yadi's wrist appears hurt

but he’s staying in the game.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on May 10, 2008 4:42 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice catch, AK.

I think he almost died.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 4:43 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it was like a cartoon...

i thought the ball would send him flying backwards

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on May 10, 2008 4:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol, no choice but to catch it

that would have pegged him in the jaw, and was a screamer

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WOW, how was that not a homerun by Hall?

Off the bat, it looked like it would go about 450 feet

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on May 10, 2008 4:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my guess

is because piniero didn’t throw it very fast

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pin needs to get ahead in the count

or the brewers are going to stop getting under those meatballs and start putting them a little deeper than the track

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 10, 2008 4:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess somebody told Dan ...

please get in EVERY Cardinal antecdote you can fit into one game. If I hear him mention the fact that Prince Fielder is a vegetarian one more time. Besides the fact, he is a self-proclaimed vegan, not simply a vegetarian.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 4:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

heredity

genes, stuff like that

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

depends on the vegetarian

some of them eat fish and eggs

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'm talking about vegans, not vegetarians

vegans are even stricter than vegetarians, vegans won’t touch anything that is a byproduct of an animal, a bug, anything…

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on May 10, 2008 4:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

vegans are much more rare than vegetarians

and make life very difficult for themselves. almost impossible to be a vegan

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I went to college with plenty that have tried.

I had a group of friends that got into it. It is pretty much silliness, IMO. I wouldn’t mind, but they tend to be so DAMN pious about it. Eat what you want, but shut up about it.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 4:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I haven't had a banana in a month

but you don’t see me braggin’ about it.

—Jim Gaffigan

by liam on May 10, 2008 5:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i dated a vegan once

and needless to say, it didnt work out well (with me being a red meat loving person). Trying to find places to go out to eat and stuff was nearly impossible. Any restaurant that was vegan friendly, made me want to vomit.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on May 10, 2008 4:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it's hard enough dating a vegetarian

but a vegan? that’s going to be a pain

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not vegans, though.

They refuse anything with meat or even animal based proteins. They don’t eat blanched grains because they believe they use animal bones in the fires that are used for the blanching process.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 4:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yes yes

I know what vegans do

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 4:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

blanched grains...?

wuh, waaaaaahhh???

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 4:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Basically,

any white flour. I had it explained to me one day by some friends in college. You know the type. The ones that know everything about farming, but have not actually ever been on a farm. It was pretty irritating, and the logic is full of incongruities.

I’ll get off this now, as it is becoming too much socio-political nonsense for this forum.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 5:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

beer

rice is a veggie, no?

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 4:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh duh

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 4:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's alright, though.

They don’t discriminate against grains.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 4:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am sure I have had vegetable beer before

I know that pumpkin crap counts

"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman

by mattyfrommo on May 10, 2008 4:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I believe...

That tubbo just recently went vegetarian. I could be wrong but I believe that I heard he went vegie due to concerns over his weight and health.

by streamman on May 10, 2008 4:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i thought

he was a recent convert

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 4:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope, just a vegetarian

Fielder is only vegetarian. Tony Gonzalez of the KC Chiefs is the one who recently went vegan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/sports/baseball/27fielder.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=%22Prince+Fielder&st=nyt&oref=slogin

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~8-year-old Greg

by ChiTown CardFan on May 10, 2008 4:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Easy mistake to make.

I think—not 100% sure – that he went vegetarian after reading “Skinny Bitch” which is (poorly written) vegan manifesto in the form of a chick-lit diet book. (Must’ve been his wife’s?) Talks about abuse of animals, etc, and pushes a vegan agenda.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~8-year-old Greg

by ChiTown CardFan on May 10, 2008 4:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm all for treating animals better

but if someone is selling me something that is already dead, why not eat it?

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 10, 2008 5:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wouldn't it be ironic ...

to get davethebutcher into this conversation? Sorry, I couldn’t help it.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 5:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey, I’m not advocating veganism! I enjoy (mostly organic and humanely raised) meat and they’ll take cheese out of my cold dead hands. I only read – part of – the book because my future MIL gave it to me saying that I might “find it interesting”. But to answer your question: they make arguments that the human body is not designed to digest dairy products, and that we don’t need calcium from dairy, that eating meat makes us “fat pigs” and is therefore more harmful than good.

"Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too." ~8-year-old Greg

by ChiTown CardFan on May 10, 2008 5:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

arnt all mamals

designed to ingest dairy? I mean kinda, not from a cow or whatever.

and we are clearly designed to eat meat.

I understand their opinion on the matter though. But some of that sounds silly.

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 5:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually

we don’t really have the proper teeth for meat-eating. We’re not carnivorous. We’re omnivores.

by spants on May 10, 2008 5:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not completely true.

Your canine teeth, and effectively the front half of your teeth are designed for tearing meat from bone. The back half of your mouth contains teeth intended for grinding vegetables and grains. That is what makes us omnivores.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 5:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

which implies

we are designed to eat meat.

which is exactly what I was saying (not trying to sound smart assed or anything) but its clear we are *supposed to be able to eat meat.
we CAN eat mean, we like eating meat, we are partially designed for it, hell Chimps eat meat on occasion.

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 5:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this post was aimed at the omnivores post

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 5:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What I meant was that

we’re “designed” to eat whatever is edible, including meat, but definitely not exclusively. And not to the quantity that most people eat meat. We’re not meant to eat meat at every meal, and many of us do.

by spants on May 10, 2008 5:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And

we really only have 2-4 good meat-tearing teeth.

by spants on May 10, 2008 5:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How many do you need?

And technically, the front eight are all intended for tearing meat and things such as corn off of the cob.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 5:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cats have

a whole mouth full of pointy, meat-tearing teeth. Dogs have a bunch of meat-tearing teeth, too. We have some.

by spants on May 10, 2008 5:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True.

But, both of those animals are much more significantly carnivorous than we are. Cats have virtually no need for non-animal products. Dogs have some need, but typically can survive with just some added grasses to their diet.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 5:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lie brown

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 5:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

?

Was I supposed to understand that?

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 5:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 5:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Again,

it is a survival thing. Meat was more difficult to get before we domesticized them. Consequently, an animal designed to eat only meat would not have had the same survival rate that we have had. Veggies, fruits, and grains were typically more available.

Your “meant to” argument doesn’t make sense. We were designed to be ABLE to go for longer periods without meat. That doesn’t mean that we weren’t MEANT to eat meat frequently.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 5:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Think of mammals that are carniverous:

Their bodies are designed to be able to catch meat without weapons or traps. They ARE the weapons and traps. We’re more intelligent, but this intelligence took A LOT of evolution.

Humans don’t have claws or fangs. We’re not fast like a puma or a jackal. We’re not camouflaged. We can’t fly to swoop down on prey.

Meat-eating teeth or no, our bodies aren’t naturally hunters. If anything, we are scavengers, picking the other animals’ leftovers clean.

by spants on May 10, 2008 5:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's inaccurate.

We are not scavengers. We have never been scavengers. Dogs are scavengers. Buzzards are scavengers. Animals that are scavengers are actually attracted to animals that have begun to decay. That characterization does not fit human beings. As a matter of fact, decaying material kills us. We can’t process the baterium and fungi that cause that process.

Sorry, we do have fangs. They are not as developed as the ones that dogs and gorrilas have, but your canine teeth ARE fangs. That is what they are designed for. We also have opposable thumbs, which allowed us to create tools. These tools were designed for the basic necessities of hunting, gathering, and creating shelter.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 5:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're right.

I meant hunter-gatherers. I’m just saying, our bodies are not exactly prime hunter material. How do you think the earliest human/humanoids caught/ate meat?

by spants on May 10, 2008 5:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes.

I do believe that some of the earliest humans caught and ate meat. Remember that as we have evolved, so have other species. Not all herbivores were always so well developed for survival. The problem is, since they were bad at it, we never saw them. The dodo bird is a prime example. It was so poor at survival that it was driven out of existence.

As the hunted have developed, so have the skills of the hunter.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 5:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess

all that I meant is that we’re not meat-thirsty. We’ll just eat whatever is edible. That’s all. Friends?

by spants on May 10, 2008 5:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry.

I get animated, but it doesn’t mean I ever took it personally. It was a fun argument. I enjoy arguing. Your points were well taken. I hope I didn’t offend. Thanks for the exercise.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 5:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was fun.

I think we both see that there are degrees of carnivorousness. Debate is always good.

by spants on May 10, 2008 6:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

exactly,

its just a goofy debate.

If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on May 10, 2008 6:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Goofy is always fun.

It’s hard to get really mad when you know in your heart the debate is really kind of silly. It is a good way to keep the debate skills up, though. And spants made some very good points that were fun to debate.

by etp_stl on May 10, 2008 6:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

on the plains of africa where we our ancestors first evolved, they worked much like a pack of wolves (albeit not nearly as efficiently). They would sneak-up upon a heard of animals, near a watering hole or other such gathering place, and selected one of the weaker animals and killed it using very rough tools. Another favorite technique was to use fire to drive the herd to their death over a cliff or other such geologic feature.

by streamman on May 10, 2008 5:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs