The Cardinals' Buckner?

by Cardinal70 on Apr 9, 2008 11:35 AM EDT

Over at my blog today, I pondered the question of whether there was a player that was held in such low esteem as Bill Buckner was in Red Sox Nation before the 2004 and 2007 Series.

There were a couple that were not well liked (like Tino in his time here, perhaps Renteria right after he jumped to the Sox), but the only one I could really come up with was Garry Templeton. Any other thoughts?

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It's funny now

But Will Clark wasn't well liked in the late 80's.

Who knew he would latter achieve cult status.

(...and I mean B-movie status. Think Tremors)

by Harknights on Apr 9, 2008 12:19 PM EDT 0 recs

True

He's almost the antithesis of this: a hated player before a Cardinal, beloved afterwards.

C70 at the Bat

by Cardinal70 on Apr 9, 2008 12:29 PM EDT 0 recs

I think someone asked a similar question to this

a couple weeks back...your least favorite Cardinal, IIRC.

Templeton, I think, was never considered on the same level as even marginally popular Cardinals, like, say, Dal Maxvill or Ted Sizemore, but he was accepted for awhile because he was talented. His fall from grace was the crotch-grabbing incident. After that, he had to go.

In the earlier question, someone mentioned Neil Allen. I rarely heard anyone say anything good about him the whole time he was in St Louis.

by tbell61 on Apr 9, 2008 12:31 PM EDT 0 recs

not a player

Don Denkinger wasn't a player, but i've never seen Cardinal fans show so much hate toward anyone!

HEEE HEHEHE BIG BOY- mike shannon

by plunkem on Apr 9, 2008 12:45 PM EDT 0 recs

Has to be Curt Flood...

though I hate to say that because I like Flood in ever other respect.

Others in the recent past that have screwed us out of post-season glory:
* Don Denkinger
* Bowie Kuhn
* Mark Mulder

Mulder didn't make any specific miscue, but he was clearly the difference between a pennant and no pennant in '05.

by guayzimi on Apr 9, 2008 12:49 PM EDT 0 recs

Bowie Kuhn

Are you referring to the split season with the Bowie Kuhn suggestion or did I forget something else?

by Schnick24 on Apr 9, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yes...

can you imagine what this board would look like if the Cardinals finished the season with the best record in the league and didn't make the playoffs.

by guayzimi on Apr 9, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

i think the criticism of mulder is a bit harsh

yeah, he was pretty bad in game 5, and lost 2 games in the NLCS, but the cardinals gave him exactly 1 run of support in each of those two games. He pitched great in game 2 -- 7IP/1ER/6K's -- and took the loss because of an unearned run on a passed ball by yadi; that's rough.

Even in the game he was "bad" in, he only gave up 3 runs. He would have needed to pitch a shutout to win, and that's an unrealistic expectation.

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on Apr 9, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

I suppose...

beating Oswalt is more difficult than picking up a slow roller. Still, that Game 6 was very disheartening.

by guayzimi on Apr 9, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

It's not so much Mulder himself

As what we gave up to get him. But I don't want to talk about it anymore.

by Midwestside on Apr 9, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

Joe Torre

I think Joe Torre got a bad rap here over the years. I think he is extremely overrated as a manager, but he seems like a great baseball guy and good person overall.

HEEE HEHEHE BIG BOY- mike shannon

by plunkem on Apr 9, 2008 12:56 PM EDT 0 recs

Todd Zeile, maybe

The overhyped phenom that Cards fans never really accepted for the player that he was.

Also the behavior of Cards fans to JD Drew on some of his visits back seems overly laced with schadenfreude.

by bailorg on Apr 9, 2008 1:21 PM EDT 0 recs

On that note...

Donovan Osborne!

I rarely hear anything but sighs when I mention that name amongst Cardinals fans of a certain age.

"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams

by Valatan on Apr 9, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

I tend to chuckle more than sigh

at the mention of Donovan Osborne, but I can see how some would harbor bad feelings about Osborne.

by bailorg on Apr 9, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

my earliest memory....

of a cards game is when i was at the game with the boy scouts and donovan osborne hit a grand slam.... i think that was the last time a pitcher did it too

by bigmcq16 on Apr 10, 2008 4:36 AM EDT up 0 recs

Maybe I'm mistaken, but

I recall some animosity against Darrell Porter when he first got to St. Louis...he never really hit the whole time he was with the team and it wasn't until his performance in the '82 postseason that he was anything close to fondly regarded.

by tbell61 on Apr 9, 2008 1:29 PM EDT 0 recs

The management tried

to make us hate Walt. I don't think we swallowed the pill but they've certainally tarnished his once brilliant reputation.

by jimitoofast on Apr 9, 2008 2:23 PM EDT 0 recs

Walt

made some pretty terrible moves in his last few years here, I thought. Most everything after the 2004 World Series, really. Up to that he was pretty great, in my opinion. And the 2006 World Series was mainly his creation, as well, but so were the 78 losses that year. I was glad to see him go.

by Midwestside on Apr 9, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

Ok, Cow About....

Bob Horner - anyone remember that worthless tub? I think management paid him in stale beer and chicken wings to sit around and bat .220 and not hit homers.

:=8/

by The MooCow on Apr 9, 2008 3:51 PM EDT 0 recs

Horner...

... wasn't quite as bad as most people remember. he didn't hit homers in his year with the Cards, but he had an above-average OPS+. not great, at all, but not horrible. he was hurt for much of that season, IIRC.

the problem was that he was supposed to replace Jack Clark, and Clark had a 176 (!) OPS+ in 1987, the year before Horner joined the club. the Cards went from an epic 7-game World Series appearance in 1987 to 10 games below .500 in 1988, and Horner was blamed for it.

by the way, Horner's top comps by age:

21. Hank Aaron
22. Eddie Mathews
23. Eric Chavez
24. Eric Chavez
25. Eric Chavez
26. Jim Ray Hart (who?)
27. Rocky Colavito
28. Dale Murphy
30. George Foster

not a bad list.

by kindred on Apr 9, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

Jim Ray Hart

Gibson hit him & broke his shoulder blade. He came back & Curt Simmons hit him in the head. Giants 3rd baseman, hit for pretty good power.

by random on Apr 10, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up 0 recs

McGwire, maybe?

by GOcrazyFOLKS87 on Apr 9, 2008 4:37 PM EDT 0 recs

Big Mac

Big Mac still has a lot of supporters, and even those that aren't don't really (in my mind) have a lot of vitriol toward him, more disappointment.

C70 at the Bat

by Cardinal70 on Apr 9, 2008 6:00 PM EDT 0 recs

Keith Hernandez

was despised by a pretty large contingent of Cardinal fans after the "cocaine trials" in Pittsburgh; I recall loud and long booing directed at Mex during his Mets tenure. (Pond Scum, I tell you! Pond Scum!)

He got a pretty good round of applause when they closed Busch II, though, so maybe all is forgiven...

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Apr 9, 2008 6:03 PM EDT 0 recs

A few Seinfeld appearances

and moustache jokes'll do that for ya...

"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams

by Valatan on Apr 9, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

Coleman's Tarp

by kindred on Apr 9, 2008 6:47 PM EDT 0 recs

Jason Marquis?

I don't know if he rises to Buckner-like levels of inspiring fan hatred, but everybody was sure glad to see him go....

Also possibly Steve Kline....he didn't exactly leave STL on good terms.

J.D. Drew also comes to mind....

by nota bene on Apr 9, 2008 8:19 PM EDT 0 recs

Good call

One player that was pretty much unanimously disliked by the end of his tenure and probably won't be back to Busch after his playing days are over. Even if he was on the '06 team.

C70 at the Bat

by Cardinal70 on Apr 10, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

zeile, drew, jaun enc, and

MANNY AYBAR. of course I may be alone on this.

by birdsonbat on Apr 9, 2008 10:47 PM EDT 0 recs

Stupid Manny Aybar.

You're not alone on that one, at all.

"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams

by Valatan on Apr 10, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

Angel Hernandez

Not a Cardinal, but he's caused enough pain.

C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!

by yer dog first on Apr 10, 2008 12:49 PM EDT 0 recs

Don Denkinger

The Cards don't have the pathetic lack of championships that the red sox have but they blamed Buckner for the loss of their long awaited championship. The only individual we can accuse of stealing a championship is Mr Don Denkinger.

by CorkyRasmit on Apr 10, 2008 1:44 PM EDT 0 recs

Reading up...

Check out Wikipedia's entry on Denkinger. Apparently, he has a painting of Himself, Worrell, and Jorta's foot that he keeps in his home to remind himself that nobody's perfect. He knew that he'd blown the call immediately after the game. Had the gall to call the balls and strikes in game 7, though, and run Whitey and Andujar out of the game.

by tinstl on Apr 10, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up 0 recs