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fists of fury

Birdos_avatar_tiny by lboros on

Q: what’s the downside of the 5-1 start? A: last night’s game thread.

the cards’ unexpectedly good start has raised everybody’s expectations, which in turn raises the piss-n-moan factor when the team turns out to be (gasp) fallible. one loss, and here come 800 comments’ worth of knee-jerk carping about how la russa and duncan are complete idiots --- as if they had nothing at all to do with the 5-1 start. or nothing to do with putting todd wellemeyer out there. he shouldn’t even be in the rotation according to a majority of this community (myself included), but i didn’t read a single comment on last night’s thread which said "maybe tony n dave made the right call on wellemeyer." i only read how those two morons were costing the team games.

but that’s the beauty of knee-jerk carping --- you’re not obliged to use fairness or logic. or maybe i should say you get to use some bizarro alternative form of fairness / logic --- the same kind my 4- and 6-year-olds invoke when they don’t get their way. here’s a textbook example of "alternative logic": for 2 solid years, whenever la russa benched duncan against a left-handed pitcher the VEB community bellowed "la russa’s an idiot! duncan’s our second-best hitter!!" last night tony had duncan in the lineup vs a left-hander . . . . . and the community bellowed "la russa’s an idiot! duncan can’t hit lefties!!"

here’s another example: tony always gets ragged on for his blind loyalty to veteran pitchers and his distrust of youngsters; i rag on him for that all the time. well, last night tony passed over his veteran setup man (franklin) and entrusted a 9th-inning tie to a rookie; when the kid lost the game, the board started piling on la russa again. one person even wrote "f**k larussa and duncan," for which he earned some polite encouragement to familiarize himself w/ the Community Guidelines.

one passage in the Community Guidelines goes like this: "there’s a difference between making a critical point and pounding your fists on the floor. if all you have to offer is the latter, do not post." there was some worthwhile, intelligent criticism on the thread last night --- the kind of discussion that makes the community strong. it’s fair to argue that brian barton had earned a 4th consecutive start, and that his absence exacerbated the cards’ vulnerability vs left-handed pitching. i agree with that argument --- last night’s lineup did not give the cards their best chance to win. but if the argument is that the lineup caused the loss, i disagree strongly; brian barton, who has 11 big-league at-bats, ain’t the sole difference between losses and wins. not yet; not singlehandedly. if you repeat that argument a couple hundred times with ever-mounting frustration and snark, it’s not an argument at all; that’s just infantile pounding of fists on the floor. the floor sustained an awful beating last night --- on april 7th. in the cards’ second loss of the season. there are probably 75 to 85 more losses left on the schedule. if last night’s thread is the standard, there’s no way the floor can survive all year. it’s gonna cave.

i’m rarely on the game threads as they unfold; i’m usually playing with my kids, brushing their teeth, and tucking ’em in bed. i come along later and read the commentary, and i am often entertained by the sharp wit and the keen observations, but some passages make me cringe. when things don't go well for the team, the herd starts looking for a scapegoat and then mercilessly pounds away. a large chunk of the community, including many of VEB's most knowledgeable and long-standing members, avoids the game threads like the plague, and i can understand why. but i think it’s a shame.

* * * * * * * *

a few notes about the ballgame itself:

  • wellemeyer’s start was easily the best of his big-league career. he completed 7 innings for the first time ever, and he induced 16 swing / misses last night while walking just one man --- dominance. i haven’t looked carefully at the pitch FX data yet, but at a glance it looks like he was getting everything over --- fastball, slider, change. both the homers came on off-speed pitches --- a changeup to berkman, a hanging slider to lee.
  • troy glaus made his bones last night, eh? i wouldn’t exactly say he plowed over towles on the play at the plate, but he didn’t shy away from contact either. just as impressive, imho, was his disciplined at-bat moments earlier --- he laid off a verrrry tempting 2-strike splitter, waited out valverde for a fastball and put a decent swing on it.
  • one possible reason ryan franklin didn’t pitch the bottom of the 9th: the two hitters due up, lee and tejada, both have good career numbers against him --- .280 / .333 / .520 for lee (2 hr in 25 ab), and .321 / .406 / .429 for tejada.
  • and a minor-league note: mitchell boggs made an impressive debut at triple A --- 6 innings, 3 hits, 1 run (unearned). jason motte pitched 1.1 innings of relief and struck out 3 guys; so far he’s struck out half the men he has faced at the triple A level, while allowing just 2 baserunners. might not be too long before we see him in st louis . . . . .

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Wow Wellemeyer

Wellemeyer's control last night was fantastic. He gave us a tremendous start. LB noted the strikeout-to-walk ratio, which is reflective of his tremendous strike-to-ball ratio. 60 strikes to 27 balls is slightly over 2-to-1. He looked great and every bit deserving of a slot in the starting rotation. Should he continue with this level of control, he will be another scrap heap notch on Walt & LaDunc's belts.

by bgh on Apr 8, 2008 8:44 AM EDT   0 recs

Was that the difference last night?

He simply had better control than usual?

I wonder why. I mean, 7 innings. WOW!

by sdrone on Apr 8, 2008 9:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Pitch Counts

Control is the issue. Fewer balls means fewer pitches, which means more effective innings.

In his first start, he threw 95 pitches in 5 innings.

Last night he threw 87 pitches in 7 innings.

by bgh on Apr 8, 2008 10:50 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I didn't get the chance to watch last night

but I wonder if Houston was hacking. Wellemeyer has never exhibited control of his pitches but if this is some change in true talent level it would be a) completely unexpected and b) a real boost for the rotation.

by azruavatar on Apr 8, 2008 10:59 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Good pitches

Welle was keeping the ball down very well as well as changing speeds. I would not say Houston was hacking. Welle just has something where his ball seems to have some late life because he always has been able to strike people out even throwing 92 MPH. I think his ball must jump a bit late on hitters. He was throwing the ball up in the zone past guys as well. He was just pitching very well and hitting his spots.

by ICbirdfan on Apr 8, 2008 11:40 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It was obviously the nosebleed that kept

Welley focused. Can we designate one guy to punch Welley before every start?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 8, 2008 11:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

First game I've watched this year

They were hacking a little but I think Wellemeyer had something to do with it. Seemed to me he was getting ahead of the hitters then getting them to chase pitches out of the zone.

Great game to watch, even if heartbreaking in the end. I love pitchers duels.
My God, Wellemeyer and pitchers duel, never thought I post that this year.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Apr 8, 2008 11:50 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Groundball outs:Flyball outs

Welle retired 11 'Stros via groundballs to 3 via the aerial batted ball.

Anyone have the first pitch strike data?

by bgh on Apr 8, 2008 12:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Found it

STL P-D has it at 16 first pitch strikes out of the 25 batters he faced.

by bgh on Apr 8, 2008 12:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I like K Mac but

I get this sinking feeling that since Memphis really isn't full in their rotation, they have a few journey men filling in though, that once a rehabbing pitcher comes up K Mac may get sent to AA or AAA as a starter, with some big league experience under his belt. I was thinking that Todd W would be the first starter out but now I am not sure. Many this has become a tough competition between Thompson and Welley.

Even Tony is waiting on tonights game to decide if Pineiro will come back on Sunday or 5 days after that. All depending on how Thompson does. If he craps out, then he gets replaced if he pitches well then we get one more week of the Thompson/Welley competition.

by StLHugo on Apr 8, 2008 8:45 AM EDT   0 recs

Thompson makes more sense in the bullpen

And it kind of looked like his sinker was back his last start.

"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams

by Valatan on Apr 8, 2008 10:32 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Looking back on the game

The only three things you can really complain about with LaRussa last night:

1. That Kelvin Jiménez was even on the major league roster.

2. The double switch pulling Barton out and instead batting Skip.

3. Having César Izturis lead off.

Other than that, the loss falls on the players. Wellemeyer pitched a great game. If the offense can't score more than 3 runs, then everything else dosen't matter much.

LaRussa needs to figure out what he has with players like Duncan, McClellan, and Barton. His use of the first two attempted to answer that question. His use of the third did not, which is a shame.

by JMedwick on Apr 8, 2008 9:01 AM EDT   0 recs

I agree

1.I still have no idea why Jimenez is here. What is it that he looks like he might do well?

2.The double switch really bugs me. What did Tony learn from doing that? Nothing? Usually Tony uses April to learn about the team. That would have been a perfect time to let Barton hit. Brocail has reverse splits lifetime and bla, bla. The small advantage that is assumed is outweighed by the cost of not having an extra outfielder for later, which turned out to be true.

3. Izturis is just funny. tony said he put Izturis there because he was swinging a good bat vs. LHP. Isn't the same true of Barton?

by Harknights on Apr 8, 2008 9:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I have a fourth item

4. I would have to blame TLR for stating the reason Barton didn't start was that he was unfamiliar with Houston's tricky left field and he wanted him to shag a few balls there. Then what possible reason could you have for putting Uncle Rico out there with the game on the line? Didn't really make a difference, but just completely inconsistent. I know he will never come out and say it, but I wish he would just admit that he likes Duncan and Schumaker better because they are more familiar, or whatever his inscrutable logic is.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Apr 8, 2008 4:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not a fan of Izturis' either

but it's time we started giving him credit for his patience at the plate. He's walked 6 times in 7 games so far this year. It's early, but it's a good start and, even though he's not hitting, if he walks frequently he can help us offensively.

by houstoncardinal on Apr 8, 2008 10:07 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I am not saying he should not start

Simply that he should not be a leadoff hitter.

That said, Tony might have been right to "test" Cesar and see if he can handle the leadoff spot. Better to find out such info now than in June or July.

by JMedwick on Apr 8, 2008 10:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Credit where credit due

He's also driving the ball pretty well—much better than I'd expected to see from him when he was signed. He had a pretty well-hit line drive last night that was fielded routinely by Pence. He's a much more impressive player than advertised... Another benefit of low expectations.

by liam on Apr 8, 2008 12:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yes

I saw that line in the stat column last night and was shocked. He now has as many BB's in 26 PA's with the cardinals as he had in 130 PA's with the Pirates last year- that is an impressive adjustment. If he keeps taking pitches like that a lot of my criticism of the deal will go away.

It would be nice to see a slugging percentage over .300, though...

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on Apr 8, 2008 12:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

double switch

batting barton there lets you pinch run for dunc with skip later as well. that lets skip replace dunc definsively as well.

i really wish it would have unfolded that way. it might not have made a difference but i would have like to see if skip or barton could have beat that throw to second.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Apr 8, 2008 1:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think there's a difference between starting Duncan agqainst a lefty and

starting him against a lefty when he's returning from an injury, especially when there's viable alternatives. Give him a chance to get back into the swing of things before giving him a tough assignment.

by outraged on Apr 8, 2008 9:07 AM EDT   0 recs

In the pregame show

Tony told Shannon that the decision had to do with Duncan's record in Houston. He had great numbers in that joke of a park comming into the game.

by Evilfrog on Apr 8, 2008 9:27 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I cringe when I read the reasoning behind some of Tony's decisions

He's a good manager but small sample sizes seem to be one of his greatest foibles.

by azruavatar on Apr 8, 2008 9:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Tony manages the psychology, not the numbers

For all the emphasis that has been put on TLR and his use of statistics, I think he uses them much differently than an analyst would. I don't think he looked at Duncan's stats at Houston and compared them against that statistics of all of his other available options, and then made an educated inference that Duncan would give his team the best chance to win. That would be "analysis," and a flawed analysis at that given its small sample size, as you say.

What La Russa is looking for is comfort level, an appropriate emotional button to push. He's got a slugger who up until July of last year was perhaps this team's second-best hitter, sitting on the bench with the rest of the team skyrocketing past him out onto the field and generating a hot start. He feels he's going to need to get Duncan going as well. So he looks at Dunc's splits in Houston and uses it to justify to himself, and the clubhouse if necessary, a move that he already wanted to make.

In so doing, he gives off the appearance in the clubhouse that he isn't playing favorites, he's playing percentages. This is how he gets his bench guys 300 ABs per year, and keeps them all happy. At the same time, this is how he motivates the guys who are getting benched -- that it isn't personal, and they'll earn their PT through playing the game right.

We often forget that a baseball manager's first job is managing men. Balancing the needs and motivations of 25 men while getting the most out of them in game-breaking situations. He's got a lot of wildcards in this lineup and I think he's been pretty effective in integrating each of them in different situations, seeing how they'll react.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Apr 8, 2008 10:57 AM EDT to parent up   2 recs

very well stated taiko

they're people, not Strat-o-Matic cards.

by lboros on Apr 8, 2008 11:23 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Amen. This is the element that we have

to keep in mind as we fantasy-manage the team, w/o having to look guys in the eye, keep the spirits of 25 guys upbeat, and keep them motivated all year.

We have often seen managers who "lose their clubhouse" after a few years. And TLR, despite his seemingly odd habits and decision-making, has managed to stick around a long time w/o having that problem very often. So he appears to know something about managing flesh and blood.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 8, 2008 11:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I wouldn't say that about 2007, though

I think TLR did lose the clubhouse last year. And early.

The good news is that he hasn't lost his skills in player/person management, he just lost a few individual relationships - with Rolen in particular, and Edmonds probably got worn out from the constant sniping that La Russa delivers through the press. He still hasn't come to Jesus with Anthony Reyes yet, I don't believe, but it seems that he has the other 24 guys going gangbusters for him right now.

I can understand now La Russa's seemingly incongruous early spring comments that "this is the kind of team he likes," or something to that effect. Perhaps he needed fresh blood in the clubhouse as much as the fans did.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Apr 8, 2008 12:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think he manages the psychology and the numbers

Good post, taiko.

I think it's both psychology and numbers.

One thing about Tony is that when he does something that causes some to scratch their heads, he generally has a good reason.

For example, he didn't want to start Barton last night because MMP is funky, and Barton is coming from AA, AND it's opening night for Houston. So if Barton is out, it's either Skip or Duncan, and although Duncan hasn't done well against lefties, the choice of Duncan is reasonable. And there is the issue as mentioned that people complain when he doesn't face lefties and they complain when he faces lefties.

Second, there was muttering about Izturis leading off. First of all, going into last night's game Izturis had a .455 OBP, so it's not like he's been completely worthless offensively. Also, if he didn't bat first, he would have batted ninth, so the grand difference in the game is the first AB of the game. Yes, I wouldn't want to see Izturis for the year in leadoff, but for one game, it's pretty meaningless (the other choice was to flip Miles and Izturis, and people would have complained about Miles leading off too).

Third, people moaning about using McClellan. People complain that TLR doesn't use rookies (inaccurately, but they complain), and then complain when he uses rookies.

Tony's lasted 30 years in a dog-eat-dog business of managing 25 independent contractors. You don't last that long without having a pretty good idea of what you are doing.

I read Larry Dierker's autobiography and he wrote that he went with the percentages but when it was a 50/50 decision he would do what he thought the players would want to do. I imagine a lot of good managers do things that way.

As to the later comment, I don't think TLR necessarily "lost the clubhouse" last year but it's pretty clear it wasn't a happy clubhouse, for whatever reason. I think the team got the message and played hard, which is what as a fan I care about (unfortunately, all too often the starting pitching was sub-par and the chances to win regularly were minimized).

Dave

by SydneyDave on Apr 8, 2008 12:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I love how TLR manages his bench

givng everyone a chance to prove themself. Look how bench players show up continually for him! Who could ever forget Taguchi's homerun off Wagner in the NLCS or Spezio's great clutch hitting...Vintage TLR. As great as Whitey was as a manager...this is the12th year with TLR right? ....and he gets hard hustle in April. I was just watching the Yankees and Rays this weekend and it looked like they were playing in slow motion for most of the game compared to the Cardinals...hardly anyone was running out ground balls.

mattnj

by mattnj on Apr 8, 2008 12:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agree with your comments,

but isn't this TLR's 13th season as the Cards manager?

by cardsgirl95 on Apr 8, 2008 12:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

that's why I put a ? mark..

Being his 13th year just makes it that more impressive. Thanks for the note

mattnj

by mattnj on Apr 8, 2008 4:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Excellent insight into LaRussa's management psychology, taiko

I'll add my kudos to the others for your analysis. As a consulting psychologist it has been my experience that management in any field is not just about the numbers. I agree LaRussa is very good at managing the motivation, morale, and focus of his teams.

He does seem to have some gaps in his strategy and skills, though, like any manager. He, like his players, is human, of course. His behavior toward Rolen, for example, showed part of LaRussa's hubris, his combative, intense, overly personal competitiveness. It wasn't the first time he had mishandled communication and other aspects of relationship management with a player.

Part of LaRussa's very effective approach to getting the most from his players is what sports psychologists call "positive mental imagery", that is, envisioning the best performance one can achieve and how beneficial the outcome would be for that performance. Before the 2006 playoffs he spoke about how his club was "dangerous" and the players seemed to get a lift from that, going into the postseason with confidence and courage and determination to play a hard nine, despite having just come off a miserable, discouraging September. This year LaRussa is talking about how his team will sneak up on a lot of people and surprise them. When you see the energy and focus of the team this first seven games, it seems evident that LaRussa has succeeded in harnessing his team's motivation to support their best performance. When many were disdaining Izturis, LaRussa was building him up, and now Izturis is playing very well in the field and showing very good discipline at the plate. Likewise, LaRussa has given very positive encouragement to McClellan, Barton and Washington, and even Anthony Reyes lately, once the decision was made to keep him on the roster. Those who criticize LaRussa's ability to handle rookies and younger players might reconsider their views.

The bottom line is that LaRussa does seem to get the best from almost all of his players. Now if he could just do that with us fans on those occasions, like last night's game, when the team shows its natural fallibility, as Larry so aptly admonishes us to remember.....

by CardsWin on Apr 8, 2008 3:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks for the further insight

That's a really good observation about his early season statements, and how he uses his statements to (and through) the press to help set the tone for his team.

Just to touch on 2007 for a moment, I might have overreached by saying that he lost the clubhouse entirely. But, perhaps it would be better to say that he lost his relationship with the local media, first because of his own DUI, then the Josh Hancock scandal, then the treatment of the Pujols-Mitchell report rumors. He became really combatative and lost that channel to help deliver that positive mental imagery for the team.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Apr 8, 2008 6:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This is the kind of discussion ...

that makes this site entertaining. Void of the irrational anger from last night.

I would like to preface that I'm not particularly fond of many of the on-field managing decisions Mr. LaRussa makes. That being said, I have to agree with many of your points about how he handles team members. As you pointed out, I believe Mr. LaRussa looks at Mr. Duncan and Mr. Schumaker scuffling right now; and he realizes that the team is better positioned to win games with ALL of his players playing at least to their potential. I know many people have so eloquently discussed how these guys are sacks of crap, but they are 40% of this team's OF. I think it is also important to notice that perhaps sitting Mr. Barton in a game that he might struggle in defensively could be rough on his confidence, and as SydneyDave pointed out, this guy was in AA last year. In addition, being a Rule 5 guy, they can't afford for him to undergo an extensive slump. They can't just send him down when he needs more seasoning.

I just wanted to ask a quick question of the group in response to the "losing the team in 2007" comments. Do you think that perhaps the mental drain of losing Hancock, along with several veterans facing their own baseball mortality (Mr. Edmonds, Mr. Rolen, Mr. Eckstein, Mr. Encarnacion, etc.), and also including the onslaught of injuries to several key players simply wore that team down mentally? I'm not sure that Mr. LaRussa really "lost the team;" although I agree with the point that he lost some credibility with the media, the fan-base, and the players with the several personal issues that arose. I think you might have seen an old team that simply had become bitter/cynical over the course of time together. Just curious.

by etp_stl on Apr 8, 2008 7:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

lboros,

Thank you again for offering consistent objective commentary. Fans also forget that we aren't privy to all the information. TLR and Duncan likely have to make several decisions a night based on information they only have access to. This isn't that say we should have blind loyalty to them, there is a place for constructive, well-researched and objective criticism, but I rarely find it on the game threads.

by maurerdj on Apr 8, 2008 9:10 AM EDT   0 recs

Also Wellemeyer looked very good last night. I still don't think he can be a league average starter for a season, but he seems that he has the potential to fit the swingman role better than Brad Thompson.

by maurerdj on Apr 8, 2008 9:12 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Brad Thompson

to me is a capable 5th (maybe even 4th) starter, but I also think if you have other options, he might be more valuable in the pen.

by ridgesee on Apr 8, 2008 9:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Wellemeyer

plainly has a major league stuff and last night he controlled it. He made only one mistake a flat slider to Carlos Lee. The pitch to Berkman wasn't a bad pitch, Berkman just went out and got it. With control, welle is better than league average.

by ridgesee on Apr 8, 2008 9:22 AM EDT   0 recs

What I liked about that was.

After giving up back to back home runs he comes back and strikes the next guy out. And then finishing the inning. Thats what he was missing as a started. After giving up the runs before he wasnt going into. "Ok, they got to me, now I have to get through this inning and get my guys a chance." mode.

by Evilfrog on Apr 8, 2008 11:24 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep

I tend to stay away from the during-game threads--I'm too jazzed during the games to comment rationally, and I get too angry at some of the other posters. I thought that was a well-played game--Welly especially--but it just got away from them there at the end. It happens. Disappointing for sure, but that's baseball. Tonight's another night. Go get em boys!!

by rockin redbird on Apr 8, 2008 9:23 AM EDT   0 recs

winning the game vs. winning the season

I think game threads get too focused on winning the game sometimes and not the larger picture. I've had these fights before on game threads when people complain because some stinking player gets put in during close situations.

Biggest example from last night is Ludwick. The man stunk in his first 3 ABs with 3 Ks, the last one taking all three strikes. Many, including me, did not have much love for him after that. Tony instead keeps him in let's him hit in the ninth so Ludwick can redeem himself and he ties it. Ultimately, such a terrible night is erased for Ludwick and he's on much better footing for the week ahead. TLR's decision shows a deal of confidence to Ludwick which pays off far greater than managing just to win an April game.

Of course, some of those decisions don't pay off. Skip is 0 for whatever, but Tony took a chance by putting him in to PH, if Skip got a hit that gives him a huge boost of confidence in the weeks ahead. He didn't, but it didn't put him in a worse place than he was before. Instead, it shows Skip that Tony's still thinking he has it.

you can't sneak the sun past the rooster

by enoscountry on Apr 8, 2008 9:26 AM EDT   0 recs

Forest but for the trees

Great point. Last night was 1/162 of a season, or, .6173% of a season.

by bgh on Apr 8, 2008 9:30 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

RE: Skip

Barton was set to going in and PH against the lefthander. They changed to a right hander. So Tony sends in Skip. I agree with him on that decision.

by Evilfrog on Apr 8, 2008 9:30 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

boggs...another nifty stat

15 groundball outs

Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle."

by erik on Apr 8, 2008 9:30 AM EDT   0 recs

I saw him pitch in ST

He looked truly sinister. Planning on making it down to Memphis for a few games this year, hopefully he'll start one of 'em.

by liam on Apr 8, 2008 12:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

800 comments

Seems to be more than usual...has the traffic increased since the SB switch?

by silent_bob on Apr 8, 2008 9:32 AM EDT   0 recs

Instant updating

It is much easier to follow and comment with instant updating. So even if the traffic didn't increase that could easily explain the increase in comments.

by StLHugo on Apr 8, 2008 10:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lineup

I hear the frustration and the reasonable perspective on whether to scapegoat LaDuncan for last night's loss. Regardless of outcome though, I wonder about Larussa's constant lineup tinkering. I know he's been doing this for forever so in some sense it's fruitless to complain, but the downside to him playing matchups is consistency and comfort in the lineup. Maybe you guys can diabuse me of this hunch, but yesterday (before the game), I suggested to a friend that it would be good for Larussa to "lock in" the lineup below. Thoughts?

Barton/Schumaker
Ankiel
Pujols
Glaus
Duncan/Ludwick
Molina
Kennedy
Pitcher
Izturis

From the outset, I was VERY disappointed to not see Barton leading off. It's tough to swallow, but I agree with LBoros that you have to like LaDunc pitching the rookie (though I HATE NOT using your closer in those situations generally, but realize that Larussa NEVER does that), or you at least can't complain that a veteran should be in there if you dislike Larussa's penchant for relying on vets.

by DesiBird on Apr 8, 2008 9:39 AM EDT   0 recs

TLR led MLB last year in lineups

The Cards had 150 different lineups in 162 games.

by bgh on Apr 8, 2008 9:43 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I like it.

I see a lot of people begging Ankiel to hit behind Pujols, but I suspect that Rick has been seeing good pitches (and delivering on them) because he hits in front of the man. The only change I would make would be with Righthanders, maybe

Barton
Duncan
Pujols
Ankiel
Glaus
Molina
Kennedy
Pitcher
Izturis

This puts baby-D back where he was raking last year, and plays the L-R-L-R game that Tony loves. I'd call this a stopgap until Troy finds his stroke, or Duncan shows that his run of success is over.

by tinstl on Apr 8, 2008 9:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Only issue with that lineup

Is that it puts either Duncan or Barton in RF.

by Evilfrog on Apr 8, 2008 9:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I really don't think you're ever going to see Duncan and Barton in the same lineup

TLR clearly does not trust Barton's defense, and no one trusts Duncan's. Until Barton can show that he's an above average defender, it's going to be an either/or between him and Dunc.

"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams

by Valatan on Apr 8, 2008 10:37 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know

Barton's defense still looks very raw to me. I think if you give him some time to polish his defense some more. Personally I think the arm thing is over rated, I rather have a guy who can go and get it rather than a guy that has a cannon and little range.

"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell

by elirock83 on Apr 8, 2008 11:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I pretty much agree with you

and I'm not saying that Barton will always not be trusted, but, as per evilfrog's comment below, it'll take time for him to gain trust.

"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams

by Valatan on Apr 8, 2008 12:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Tony on pulling Barton

Paraphrasing here.

"Next time he'll go 7 innings. By mid season he should be in until the end of the game."

It really is just gaining the Tony's trust and learning to play defense above the double A level. Its hard because he can't get sent down to for a few weeks at triple A.

by Evilfrog on Apr 8, 2008 11:21 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I saw Welley

pitch last year in Pittsburgh and he was sharp. 6ips 3h's 5k's 0BB's. I thought then the guy deserved a chance to be in this years rotation. Last night was great. I do not like the stat..."quality start" but last night was certainly one. That was a classic pitchers duel.

Why don't we give credit where credit is due. Rodrquez was great last night, and deserved the win.

by nybirdfan on Apr 8, 2008 9:48 AM EDT   0 recs

Ank and other stuff.

Glaus is coming around, and I really like him right behind Pujols. Ank is tearing the cover off the ball. Why look that gift horse in the mouth?

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Apr 8, 2008 9:50 AM EDT   0 recs

I was

as vocal as anybody about my dissatisfaction with Wellemeyer being in the rotation. That being said, I owe it to the man to give him the credit when he earns it.

Hell of a start, Mr. Wellemeyer. Beautiful.

I'm still not convinced he should be in there all year long; I don't think he'll keep up this level of performance. But still. Last night, Welley was amazing.

I was very disappointed to not see Barton leading off last night; I think you ride the hot hand, particularly when he has the platoon split advantage. Of course, hot streaks can end any time, and that's when you make the change. But as long as a guy keeps doing it, don't try to anticipate, just go with it.

Really, though, I understand the reasoning. I may not agree with it, but I do understand it. The only real gripe I had with the game last night was in the ninth, after Duncan was walked. I thought, at that point, that Barton should have been pinch run for Duncan. You need all the speed you can get at that point, in order to try and beat out a throw, etc. In other words, the exact thing that happened. You have a guy with average speed at best on the basepaths in a tied game in the ninth inning, who also happens to be coming back from a hamstring injury. It just seemed to me that getting the guy with the healthy wheels on the basepaths would have been the prudent move, particularly considering they play the same position.

Otherwise, I didn't really have much to say bad about the way the game was handled. It sucked, but it wasn't a bad loss, by any means. Although, it does hurt that it was Wandy F-ing Rodriguez.

Oh well. They weren't going 161-1, so why get pissed about this one?

Que sera.

by the red baron on Apr 8, 2008 9:55 AM EDT   0 recs

Well Barton was burned

is the Skip AB...but that is just another example of why the Skip AB was so bad from a tactics point of view.

by Harknights on Apr 8, 2008 10:02 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep.

And there were no bench OF left at all, so you couldn't even get away with binch running one of the pitchers or something, lest you end the game with Rico in the outfield.

"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams

by Valatan on Apr 8, 2008 10:39 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thoughts on last night.

Overzealous fans = small price to pay for overachieving team.

I floorbang verbally during the games..... I thought the cardinals played very well last night, but Rodriguez had a fantastic curveball last night. Those two he dropped in on Pujols in the seventh. WOW.

It was sweet to hang 3 on Valverde last night. I think he reminds me too much of Zambrano. Yes sir, I don't like him. I wish we would have won the game but the birds showed grit last night in the 9th. Pujols just missed that tying home run, but Glaus and Ludwick picked him up.

One bad pitch by a rookie brings down the loss. Kid is forgiven.

Here's the deal, I'm the best there is, plain and simple, I mean I wake up every morning and I kiss excellence, and nobody can hang with my stuff, uh, you know I'm just a, just a big hairy American winning machine.....

by Schnake on Apr 8, 2008 9:58 AM EDT   0 recs

One more thing

Ankiel did his best Edmonds impersonation in the 9th swinging through 3 high fastballs. Is this on the personality test for Redbird centerfielders?

Interviewer: so what are your feelings on high fastballs?

Rasmus: I tend to lay off them... you know wait for my pitch!

Interviewer ( to management): Kid is made for right field.

Here's the deal, I'm the best there is, plain and simple, I mean I wake up every morning and I kiss excellence, and nobody can hang with my stuff, uh, you know I'm just a, just a big hairy American winning machine.....

by Schnake on Apr 8, 2008 10:04 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agree on Valverde

I didn't follow the game thread last night so I can see how eight innings of scoreless baseball will give people a lot of fodder to gripe. But in hindsight a 3-run ninth off their newly-acquired closer is almost a victory unto itself. I believe Valverde is a bit of a pinata, and with a bit of poking he'll fall apart. We did a nice job of that last night. He also won't like his new ballpark much, especially given his flyball rates.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Apr 8, 2008 10:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Think you

may be right about Valverde. That is a great analogy though - he is like a pinata, poke him with a stick and he goes to pieces.

by cardsgirl95 on Apr 8, 2008 11:15 AM EDT