Game 5 Overflow
Hey everybody. Sorry about no real open thread this morning; I thought it was an evening game, and I've been on the road to Chicago. My apologies, and thanks to whomever changed the title of my morning post.
Nice start by Wainwright. Very, very nice. I see Anthony Reyes warming up in the bullpen. Is there any chance we actually see him coming in to close out this game? I'm so excited I don't even know what to say.
Also, nice pic of Snoop in the other thread. Classic.
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old shu
only 40 feet shy of the granny
ok, get em reyes
by jealousblues on Apr 5, 2008 3:52 PM EDT 0 recs
Holy cow
Reyes is REALLY keeping that front shoulder closed.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on Apr 5, 2008 3:52 PM EDT 0 recs
See ya Reyes
Enjoy Memphis.
I wonder if his knowing that he has no margin for error is making it more difficult for him.
by rumrunner on Apr 5, 2008 3:58 PM EDT 0 recs
I'm sure
that it doesn't help. On the other hand, it's the kid's first time trying to close out a game. Very few guys just slide into a late inning role without any growing pains.
The Reyes saga continues to get more and more interesting...
No Es Bueno!
by the red baron on
Apr 5, 2008 4:01 PM EDT
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X
It's become pretty dull to me. Just as the Mark Mulder of 2003 isn't coming through that door, the Anthony Reyes of 2005 is gone.
Time to move on.
by greenback06 on
Apr 5, 2008 4:12 PM EDT
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Yeah, I agree.
Gotta let him bounce back from this. Although I don't put it past Duncan and LaRussa to make this his end of the leash.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on
Apr 5, 2008 5:27 PM EDT
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So, I really want to see Tony succeed
but that said, I really don't trust him.
Curse you Endy!!!!!
by boisebird on Apr 5, 2008 3:59 PM EDT 0 recs
no doubt
we will win this, but a quick inning by Reyes would have really gone along way to winning him some LaDuncan respect.
by gossard56 on Apr 5, 2008 3:59 PM EDT 0 recs
Well now.
that wasn't too very good.
No Es Bueno!
by the red baron on Apr 5, 2008 3:59 PM EDT 0 recs
This is a test for Reyes
A somewhat non pressure situation just turned into a high pressure situation. Can he handle it?
Ok Skippy... you're starting. Now START HITTING!
by stltrav09 on Apr 5, 2008 4:00 PM EDT 0 recs
His mechanics really look different than thursday
the leg kick is not as sharp...there is something different about the way he (Reyes) is throwing
mattnj
by mattnj on Apr 5, 2008 4:01 PM EDT 0 recs
4-1
I know there have only been 5 games, but raise your hand if you predicted that start?
Curse you Endy!!!!!
by boisebird on Apr 5, 2008 4:04 PM EDT 0 recs
[raises hand, slaps own hand down. Calls self liar].
by glennrwordman on
Apr 5, 2008 4:05 PM EDT
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I was calling for a 95 win season...
91 more to go.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on
Apr 5, 2008 4:15 PM EDT
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Not quite this start,
but I have been (doing my best) arguing a fairly more optimistic position than a lot of other VEBers. I do feel they are capable of winning the central -- just a lot needs to go right, and our offense is a key part of it until Carp and co. come back.
This team is so much more lively and fresh than the injury-riddled team we had last year. Does anyone else remember how shitty our offense was at the beginning of the year? I still feel that had a major contribution to why we had such a rough year. How do you build confidence as a pitcher if you just lost a 2-0 game where you pitched 6-7 quality innings? You don't . . . and it begins to take a tear.
With that said, we could still have a completely awful year. But there are definitely more reasons for optimism than the Jeff Passan's of the world will have you know.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on
Apr 5, 2008 5:34 PM EDT
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Heck, I didn't think they'd win.
4 games this month.
I still think it's a mirage, because Wellemeyer is terrible, and Pineiro will be when he gets back, and Looper and Thompson and Lohse will be average at best ultimately. And the offense will collapse if Yadi stops hitting. And the bullpen is awful beyond Izzy (who still has a ticking time bomb hip). But I'm enjoying it while it lasts.
by DiscoJer on
Apr 6, 2008 12:48 AM EDT
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that's a winner!
I had totally forgotten how good it feels to be on a winning streak.
Lets just treat 2007 like 'Highlander 2' and pretend it never happened.
by effin fisk on Apr 5, 2008 4:04 PM EDT 0 recs
This is great
Not just winning, but playing well! Let's go get that sweep!!
Ok Skippy... you're starting. Now START HITTING!
by stltrav09 on Apr 5, 2008 4:07 PM EDT 0 recs
bullpen
the bullpen surely looks shaky. many were convinced the other day that Reyes had found his spot, maybe not. he looks like the AAA rotation or another club might be his best bet. I'm certainly not a Reyes fan but I have been pulling for him. I'm sure the anti TLR folks won't give any credit for not wanting Reyes in the rotation or bullpen.
by okiecardfan on Apr 5, 2008 4:15 PM EDT 0 recs
Nice words from Tony about Reyes
"Coming into today, Reyes and Flores were our hot pitchers."
About Reyes: "Better positioning of Ludwick and that first hit is an out. He hung one pitch that left the park, but other than that it was a good outing. He went in and got two outs. I was impressed."
by effin fisk on Apr 5, 2008 4:25 PM EDT 0 recs
there goes evilfrog
bashing the Tony bashers in public again.
what did the tony bashers ever do to you, sir...?
by jealousblues on
Apr 5, 2008 4:32 PM EDT
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i think
Tony's tone and frequency of praise has changed a lot since his "meeting" with Mo.
by RedbirdRay on
Apr 5, 2008 4:39 PM EDT
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Agreed
it's good to hear Tony praising Anthony but then again, he praises Izturis too.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 5, 2008 4:48 PM EDT
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I think not...
His praise of Reyes after his last spring training start was before his "meeting".
And the day before Strauss tried to stir up a controversy, Goold posted in his blog that while Duncan was against Reyes in the bullpen, LaRussa was "open to the idea." And I trust Goold's reporting a hell of a lot more than Strauss's....
by Forsch31 on
Apr 5, 2008 11:07 PM EDT
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Reyes had Belliard out on strikes ...
The ump got him.
Also I don't understand why they had Reyes go in and low with what appeared to be a breaking ball on Flores.
He was succesful the other day up in the strike zone. He had him set up and should have went up and in not down.
But he did get two outs and we won so Good job A Rey.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on
Apr 5, 2008 4:50 PM EDT
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It looked like a strike to me.
But if I was an ump every pitch he through would have been a strike.
Im sure there was a reason Yadi was asking for the low and in locations for his pitches. I really trust his judgement on that aspect.
by Evilfrog on
Apr 5, 2008 4:52 PM EDT
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I trust Yadi also but
he his human and can make a mistake every once in a while.
I know it's easy to coach from the living room in front of a T.V. but I really would have like to see Anthony throw that pitch up and in and see if he could get a swing or a pop up.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on Apr 5, 2008 4:55 PM EDT 0 recs
He doesn't have to throw it where Yadi wants...
he is the pitcher, he can shake it off if he doesn't like the call. I'm sure Yadi didn't call for a meatball, that's just what Reyes threw.
...just a bit outside....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on
Apr 5, 2008 5:05 PM EDT
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Agreed.
I just think they should stick with his strength which seems to be getting guys out up in the strike zone.
He did place that ball right on the meaty part of Flores bat.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on
Apr 5, 2008 5:39 PM EDT
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Man...
how huge was it for AW to give us 8 strong innings today? Our BP gets a well needed rest. I don't really like bringing Jiminez up, he is pretty awful.
...just a bit outside....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Apr 5, 2008 5:11 PM EDT 0 recs
I'm kind of confused...
Why is it that when Franklin gives up 2 long flyouts, everyone cringes, but Reyes gives up a double and a homerun (to a back up catcher named Jesus Flores) and people are still patting him on the back?
"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Apr 5, 2008 5:20 PM EDT 0 recs
because their is an ungodly amount of manlove for A-Rey around these parts :P
...just a bit outside....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on
Apr 5, 2008 5:40 PM EDT
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maybe because
he 2 hit one of the best offenses in baseball in Game 1 of the WS...I know that was a long time ago but the kid shows flashes of brilliance...
by UNCDubya on
Apr 5, 2008 5:43 PM EDT
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There was also that complete game one-hit loss to the White Sox
team with a very strong offense in June of 2006. That seems like a long time ago.
by BTown Birds fan on
Apr 5, 2008 5:49 PM EDT
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And Bud Smith
no-hit the Padres. "Flashes" don't necessarily add up to long-term success.
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.
by cardsrul on
Apr 5, 2008 7:11 PM EDT
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Which, again, was the point of saying
"That seems like a long time ago."
by BTown Birds fan on
Apr 5, 2008 8:25 PM EDT
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Well, because
Ryan Franklin has blown all spring
and this was the first bit of struggling Reyes has had all spring.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 5, 2008 5:49 PM EDT
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Agreed
Franklin scares me. I havent got an "Oh Noes" feeling when Reyes has entered a game. Even after he hung that change up.
If Frankin puts up a few good inngins I'll be much happier.
by Evilfrog on
Apr 5, 2008 6:10 PM EDT
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Except...
For his second spring training game, when he got killed.
And his next start, where he pitched well for three innings and then blew it in 2007 style.
by Forsch31 on
Apr 5, 2008 10:54 PM EDT
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ok...
I understand the manlove thing...but I really don't think I need to dignify the 2006 WS reference and the mention of the 1 hitter with a response...I watched both of those games and they were absolutely thrilling, but we're talking about 2 starts here...Hardcore, your answer is definately the most valid, but still no one should be patting A-Rey on the back for his performance today...not even Larussa
"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on
Apr 5, 2008 5:53 PM EDT
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Apparently this wasn't clear to you,
but the whole point of that "that seems like a long time ago" statement was that the White Sox game isn't worth a whole lot in judging his value now. And yeah, it's silly to judge him now on two starts two years ago. Just like it's silly to ignore the flashes of brilliance - and there have obviously been more than two, even including some glimmers of hope in last years gawd-awful season - that keep interest in him high.
by BTown Birds fan on
Apr 5, 2008 6:04 PM EDT
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But the difference in margins for error is important
Franklin will keep his job for 2 months posting a 5.00 ERA in the 8th inning. Reyes doesn't have that luxury. He's got 2 weeks to show he's just as good as anyone in the pen (after he's already proven he's just as good as anyone 3-5 in the rotation) in order to stay in St. Louis.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 5, 2008 6:25 PM EDT
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2-16 last year
is it fair to say he was given every opportunity a year ago? He pitched when I wanted him benched. Maybe TLR has been overly gracious to this guy and it's time to cut our losses and find out what he's worth to another club that thinks they can develop those flashed into true everyday brilliance.
by okiecardfan on
Apr 5, 2008 8:08 PM EDT
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2-16
records are always a fabulous way to evaluate pitching talent. ALWAYS.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 5, 2008 9:45 PM EDT
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Then how?
how do you evaluate talent? Doesn't talent that hasn't reached it's peak remain in the bullpen or better yet in AAA until it become consistent? Flashes of greatness don't mean much if you need a guy to deliver every time he takes the ball. He appears to have some issues and I don't believe they are related to his talent. His biggest problem appears to be between the ears. Do you fix this guy in the bigs or send him down to get some work and come back ready to perform like a major league pitcher? I still believe that TLR and Duncan know what they are doing. If not how have they ever been so successful?
by okiecardfan on
Apr 6, 2008 12:44 AM EDT
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The margin of error comes from ...
two factors. The first is that Mr. LaRussa evaluates what HE has seen. Mr. Franklin was extremely good for the Cards for the first half of the season. The question is did he run out of gas in the second half, or was that simply extending the sample size out to normalize his performance? Mr. Franklin has been an average to below average pitcher for his entire career, so I would assume that last year was a fluke. I don't believe that Mr. Duncan is a miracle worker.
Mr. Reyes has not given the Cards even an half season of consistently good results. Mr. Reyes' numbers indicate a similar type of pitcher to Mr. Franklin, but he is still young and could potentially develop into a better than average pitcher given more consistency between runners-on and bases-empty situations.
The second reason is that the Cards have a significantly greater investment in Mr. Franklin. They need him to perform to justify the multi-year extention he just received, so they are going to give him more opportunity. Was the multi-year extention a good idea? Probably not, but here they are.
by etp_stl on
Apr 6, 2008 1:34 AM EDT
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Because...
Franklin has a pretty long career of being a bad pitcher. Reyes on the other hand, has completely dominated the minors and has shown tantalizing flashes of that domination in the majors on occasion.
by DiscoJer on
Apr 6, 2008 12:50 AM EDT
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Reyes
appears to have gotten off to a pretty good start as a bad major league pitcher. 2 wins last year isn't exactly impressive. Franklin wasn't that bad a year ago. Agreed Franklin is scary but Reyes hasn't proved anything at this level.
by okiecardfan on
Apr 6, 2008 12:53 AM EDT
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At this level
but he shouldn't get the chance at this level after that 18 game swath you've evaluated him on already, right?
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 6, 2008 2:00 AM EDT
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another one bits the dust...
rey-rey, come on buddy i know running out of the bullpen isnt your norm. but you cant punch your own bus ticket down 55..
poor kid.. i was hoping he would fly through the ninth..
war me going to the game tomorrow..
by sean in the mo on Apr 5, 2008 6:37 PM EDT 0 recs
i really hate these saturday black outs
according to this story on the biz of baseball, these asinine weekend black outs aren't supposed to start for another month. so why wasn't todays game on DTV EI's package? looks like i missed a good start by Wagonmaker, and a so so outing by everyone's favorite 9th starter.
here's a good interview by MO talking about Tony & Dave vs Anthony.
tomorrow's game better be on EI. at least today i've got the Final Four.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson
by gdm426 on Apr 5, 2008 7:05 PM EDT 0 recs
Sunday's game
isn't on EI, according to the EI schedule...and I can't remember the last time I saw a Cards game on Sunday that wasn't televised by ESPN.
"The only thing you know about pitching is that you can't hit it." Bob Gibson to Tim McCarver
by player2bnamedl8r on
Apr 5, 2008 8:04 PM EDT
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Yes it is
It is on channel GAME 6
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 5, 2008 9:46 PM EDT
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Fox owns baseball till 7pm eastern on Saturdays
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Apr 5, 2008 7:56 PM EDT 0 recs
not according to
this. which i posted above since it looks like you missed it.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson
by gdm426 on
Apr 6, 2008 12:51 AM EDT
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According to the DirecTV MLB Extra Innings schedule
it isn't.
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageIF.jsp?assetId=3160004
Since I get EI on DirecTV, I can't see it. Maybe Dish or cable subscribers can.
"The only thing you know about pitching is that you can't hit it." Bob Gibson to Tim McCarver
by player2bnamedl8r on Apr 5, 2008 10:00 PM EDT 0 recs
you are right
it's not on there, but it's on MASN2 at 1:30pm est. so if it's on there, it should be, i say should be on DTV EI.
i say that because a lot of times during the season, Dish had a game listed, and DTV EI did not. but come game time it was on DTV EI. i have DTV only for EI & Dish for everything else. i was totally against DTV EI last season, but after seeing everything they bring to the table, i'm now on board. they have way more options than Dish ever had & to this day, cable still does not.
man, i felt really dirty typing that.
OH & one more thing, MASN (Dish Channel 432) is currently re-airing Saturday afternoon's game unblacked out. i'm catching up on it in between commercial breaks of G4's Attack Stack. before you question my Cardinals loyalty, Anna David hosted every show this week. need i say more?.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson
by gdm426 on
Apr 6, 2008 1:04 AM EDT
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Yeah, I forgot
about checking MASN. Well, it might be on MASN, but might not be in the 720-730 series channels...I think it's happened before.
"The only thing you know about pitching is that you can't hit it." Bob Gibson to Tim McCarver
by player2bnamedl8r on
Apr 6, 2008 10:51 AM EDT
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Don't look now, but
the Cards are tied with the Brew Crew for the best record in the majors. (knock on wood)
by Phizzle on Apr 6, 2008 12:08 AM EDT 0 recs
winning streaks are fun
...just a bit outside....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on
Apr 6, 2008 2:14 AM EDT
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