TLR and Ankiel - an update

by Hinkster on Apr 5, 2008 10:33 AM EDT Comment 16 comments

Tony certainly catches more than his fair share of critque and flak on this site - including much from me. I suppose he's fair game and I suspect much of the criticism is well deserved. I, for one, have even advocated that it's past time for Tony to be properly thanked and replaced.

But.......but, but, but..........it's also fair to praise where praise is due.

I take you back a few short years ago to the era I refer to as Ankiel Purgatory - the gulf between pitching flameout and Rick's epic homer last summer.

The NLCS nightmare was well documented and long over. Rick's repeated efforts to regain his groove all fell short. We all watched the nightmare unfold with sadness and what could have beens. We saw Rick disappear into injury, oblivion, family issues and finally a position change that quite frankly appeared to be a sad last ditch effort to salvage something - anything - of this once promising career. Short of Babe Ruth, none of us had ever seen such a transition so we held little hope. In some ways, it seemed like a sympathy move that was awarded only on the basis on "well, he's been through so much".

Let me also remind that most in Cardinal Nation were quite vocal during Ankiel Pugatory of their Rick Fatigue. Despite our love for Rick, the most common mantra was, "Let it go and move on" was the most common mantra.

One person never gave up on Rick. Perhaps TLR felt some guilt for the way he handled Rick during that fateful NLCS or the aborted recovery attempts in the months to follow. Maybe Rick is the son TLR never had.

One thing is for sure. Tony never gave up and he made sure the Cardinals did not either. It's really a miracle that Rick was not released during the purgatory period. This was a clear case of Tony's classic stubbornness working in everyone's favor.

So whether Rick becomes an all-star, a reserve outfielder or a hockey player - thanks Tony for not giving up on Rick, seeing what most did not see and perserving despite criticism.

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A hockey player?

Holy cow, a right winger with a 100-MPH slapshot and speed to burn? Just what my beloved Blues need! He'd get a hat trick in his first game -- during the National Anthem!

RICK ANKIEL!!! :-)

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Apr 5, 2008 10:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

tis very true.

and i hope that ankiel can hit a homer every three games as he has done in the beginning... that would make 54. pretty good total, i think.

by krippledmaster on Apr 5, 2008 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ank is looking like an All-Star.

No question he has plus power/ speed/ glove/ Arm.

If he can mantain the plate discipline he is showing here early on Rasmus best get comfortable at AAA and be ready to play in the Olympics.

I'm going out on a limb here and saying that barring a trade to clear out some extra outfielders or an injury we won't see Raz until the expanded rosters.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Apr 5, 2008 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

the Olympics?

Has Rasmus said he wants to? I want him in St. Louis by this July, not playing exhibition games in China. I couldn't imagine him getting hurt playing in the Olympics!

by chuckb on Apr 5, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

easy gold?

Raz was the MAN in tourny play last year. I too don't like the risk associated with playing "meaningless" games, but if he goes, the rest of the world will have a tough test.

by bornin82 on Apr 5, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone who has watched

Ank take BP can see that he's got awesome bat speed, and the ball makes that Jack Clark sound coming off his bat. I'm sure there was some degree of sentimentality involved with TLR, but I can see how any baseball lifer would recognize there was --maybe -- something special in that bat. And if you can take a chance, at relatively low cost, to find out what's there, it's a worthwhile gamble. In this case it also helps that the farm system was so weak during the development of Ank v2.0; you're not hurting other players' development to take a look.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 5, 2008 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree, credit the skip

If there's a metaphorical opposite to Tony's doghouse, (a seat at the Thanksgiving table, perhaps?) that's where Ankiel has been throughout the years.

Ankiel's natural talent might have come from Roy Hobbs, but he could easily have gone the rest of his life without realizing it. Consider that very few players who go through "Steve Blass syndrome" make it back at all: it took a lot of passion and dedication throughout the organization to allow and nurture Ankeil to the point he's at today, a potential star once again. TLR exemplified that passion and dedication. I gladly give a tip of the hat to him on this.

"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz

by taiko on Apr 5, 2008 12:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Got MY Shirt

for fear that he wouldn't truly materialize into a star or even an everyday BENCH player no less, I got my number 24 shirt the second i saw it on the rack. i switch it out between that and number 4. i've reserved number 5 for jersey status of course

by bornin82 on Apr 5, 2008 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You are correct.

LaRussa has a soft spot for the kid, and it seems as though it is paying off. I know he's gone and all, but I think kudos need to go to Walt Jockety, as well. He was the one who talked Rick out of quiting baseball and trying the position switch.

by etp_stl on Apr 5, 2008 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

great post

I think TLR felt guilty about pushing the kid too far too fast as a starting pitcher but agree we should give credit where credit is due. I was shocked the organization didn't give up on Rick after all the injuries in the comeback attempt as a position player. "Rick Fatigue" ... we all just wanted the drama to end. But Tony stuck by Rick. And now we in Cardinal national are reaping the benefit. Good point.

by jjray on Apr 5, 2008 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sometime too much blame?

I agree with you Hinkster.

I wanted to be a bit sarcastic, and say something like "I can't believe my eyes that I see praise in VEB for TLR?", but I shouldn't detract from your sincere appreciation.

I think LaDunc gets too much blame many times, and rarely are they overly praised. As etp_stl pointed out, Walt had a big part in Ank's success. But I just think so many times the blame gets automatically tagged on LaDunc when Walt/Mo/Dewallet were also partly responsible. I feel the response is a bit one-sided towards the negative.

I didn't use to be that excited about LaDunc. But all the LaDunc negativity has made much more of a LaDunc fan.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Apr 5, 2008 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Just to be clear...

part of the reason Tony never gave up on Rick is that Tony feels he was partly, perhaps significantly, responsible for Rick's blowup. Tony is the one who decided to be a nutjob and play out the whole fake-the-press thing. yes, there's Matheny's injury, but Tony could well be completely responsible for hosing the best prospect this organization had seen in god knows how long. And I imagine he knows that. So I can't really give Tony props for "believing in Rick Ankiel."

In a way, the NLCS nightmare WASN'T over. 'Cause the guy who may have caused it is still our manager.

by sdrone on Apr 6, 2008 12:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In all fairness, ...

Mr. Ankiel has to take responsibility for his mental implosion on the mound, as well. While I believe that Mr. Duncan and Mr. LaRussa have their own culpability in that fiasco (Mr. Duncan adjusting Mr. Ankiel's mechanics and Mr. LaRussa's coddling), I don't think you can absolve Mr. Ankiel from the entire situation. If Mr. LaRussa was guilty of anything, then it was that he coddled a young man that wasn't mentally tough enough to take the pressure of a major league playoff game. Unfortunately, the Cards had to rely on this kid before he was ready, and it cost the organization the best pitching prospect since at least Mr. Morris.

I think Mr. LaRussa and Mr. Jockety probably both believe they had a part in the demise of a once promising career. In addition, they knew the man and the off-the-field issues/demons he was battling. They also knew the kid has the kind of athletic ability that is rare, even amongst major league talent, and they believed he had the potential to make the switch successfully. It seems they have been proven right.

I can't help but root for Mr. Ankiel after all his travails, but I wait with baited breath for the kid to prove to me that he can play an entire season without a severe mental collapse due to off-the-field issues. In 2000, it was drugs, worthless father, and improperly placed pressure. In 2007, it was the media assault on his HGH use. Both were extreme cases, and it seems extraordinary that anything of either caliber would occur during his future career.

by etp_stl on Apr 6, 2008 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, I'm not meaning to absolve Ankiel - not at all!

Believe me.

The kicker here is that, to me, this is a similar kind of crap he's pulling with Reyes.

by sdrone on Apr 6, 2008 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure ...

I see your correlation. In what way do you see the handling of Mr. Ankiel (as a pitcher) and Mr. Reyes as the same? Mr. Ankiel was heavily praised by both Mr. Duncan and Mr. LaRussa coming up. Mr. Reyes has clearly not received that vote of confidence. The reason for Mr. Duncan tinkering with the mechanics of the two pitchers is completely different. For Mr. Ankiel, he believed that the fact that he threw across his body would make him susceptible to injury. For Mr. Reyes, Mr. Duncan doesn't like his repertoire; and he believes it is necessary for Mr. Reyes to change his pitching approach in order to be effective in the major leagues.

I'm no apologist for either the manager or the pitching coach, but I would like to see some clarification there, please.

by etp_stl on Apr 6, 2008 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you're overstating the TLR contribution

to Ank's demise. Was Tony 10 percent, 15 percent responsible? Probably. But the roots of most of Rick's problems were in place long before he ever met TLR.

Now if our boy gets through the whole season with a level head and a nice crop o' statistics, I say we award his new wife the Team MVP. She's probably what was missing from Rick's previous incarnations.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 6, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs