Game 3 Overflow

Nice A-Rey!

Struck out the side!

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Apr 3, 2008 3:32 PM EDT 0 recs

Dear Dave Duncan,

Eat Me.

Love,
Anthony Reyes

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 3, 2008 3:33 PM EDT 0 recs

nice

that made me laugh out loud.

greatness.

by busch league on Apr 3, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Me too...

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 3, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

ok

two overflows, then no overflows, nice work guys ;)

Really though, good work on taking care of the site with LB gone.

by StLHugo on Apr 3, 2008 3:33 PM EDT 0 recs

21 pitches

16 strikes, 5 balls, 3Ks

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Apr 3, 2008 3:33 PM EDT 0 recs

just thinking out loud...

what do you guys think of Reyes potentially being Izzy's replacement as closer if Perez doesn't quite develop like we all hope?

is it crazy talk?

The Phinsider: SBN's Miami Dolphins blog

by Matty I on Apr 3, 2008 3:34 PM EDT 0 recs

Not a crazy thought...

IF ...he can keep that 93mph on the fastball..

by Timbo02 on Apr 3, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

agreed

but perhaps he could even increase the velocity because he wont be training for stamina anymore

The Phinsider: SBN's Miami Dolphins blog

by Matty I on Apr 3, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Almost crazy

if Izzy took 21 pitches to get 3 outs.... we would all be talking trash. Let's see how it plays out.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Apr 3, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

I doubt that

Putting runners on base Izzy style worries me more than fouled off pitches.

by DriverZn on Apr 3, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

if GameDay was right

all of his pitches but one was up in the zone. I'm not trying to rain on the parade, just want to be realistic.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Apr 3, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

You mean, where he normally pitches?

When he is effective.

Last year is was the low sinking stuff that got hammered. He, like Chris Young isn't effective low.

by DriverZn on Apr 3, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

You are correct, sir!

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 3, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

I wouldn't be

3 k's is 3 k's. You don't have a better inning than that and to suggest that we'd be beating up on Izzy for taking 21 pitches to strikeout the side, w/o giving up any baserunners, is just silly.

by houstoncardinal on Apr 3, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up 1 recs

I threw it out there a couple weeks ago

I don't think it's stupid at all. We need to see what Reyes can do and not be locked into the mindset that it's rotation or bust. If he can be a good reliever, let's find out.

by houstoncardinal on Apr 3, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

Might be just yet,

but I'd be totally satisfied if he could just be another strong force in out bullpen. Franklin's been scary these past couple games, so for someone like Reyes to step it up is big.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Apr 3, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

the 3-0 "world-beating Nats."

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Apr 3, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

He did that just to PO Tony and Dunc.

by salvomania on Apr 3, 2008 3:34 PM EDT 0 recs

3 k's for a-rey...

wait a minute while i go pick up a-rey in my fantasy league!!!!

wooo-wooo......

by busch league on Apr 3, 2008 3:34 PM EDT 0 recs

Where have you been sir? He just plowed through Tulowitzki and Helton and made them look silly. For two years, I've felt one major issue with his delivery was the fact that he simply wasn't very physical on the mound (not aggressive with his body). Well, he was today. That was really impressive.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Apr 3, 2008 3:34 PM EDT 0 recs

How will LaDunc

underscore that outing from Reyes?

by Harknights on Apr 3, 2008 3:34 PM EDT 0 recs

Wind was blowing in...

added a little giddyup to his fastball. Wouldn't have struck 'em out if it weren't for that.

Congratulations, Reyes. Job well done.

by liam on Apr 3, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

Duncan:

"Obviously, we'll take the results, but Anthony really had trouble putting away Spillborghs after he had him with two strikes... Anthony needs to work on being more efficient--he can't expect too many 1-2-3 innings where he has to use 21 pitches..."

by salvomania on Apr 3, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up 1 recs

21 pitches...

21 pitches isn't great, but hey, I'll take that any day against those three hitters. Great job, Ironbill!

Isn't efficiency one of the things Duncan wanted Reyes to work on? Not that I think Duncan will give Reyes a hard time for the pitch count, but I'm wondering if that's one of the things Reyes is working on.

by blehmann on Apr 3, 2008 3:35 PM EDT 0 recs

That hair is Awsome!!!

by Harknights on Apr 3, 2008 3:35 PM EDT 0 recs

Before we get too excited...

Let's see how he does against 4-6: Holliday, Atkins and Hawpe.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Apr 3, 2008 3:35 PM EDT 0 recs

PH

he was pulled for barton, so you won't get to see it.

by StLHugo on Apr 3, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

Drat.

Ah, well. Great start to 08 for FlatHat. That's gotta make him (and Mo) feel pretty good.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Apr 3, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

They should call the Mets now.....

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 3, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

hey

anybody know the story behind the guy that just struck out the side?

by infallibleopiniongenerator on Apr 3, 2008 3:35 PM EDT 0 recs

apparently he was once a promising starting pitching prospect

nowadays there is some minor disagreement about him in the blogging community.

by mattybobo on Apr 3, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

i believe

he just figured out his role.

I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.

by _pistol_ on Apr 3, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

Wow Reyes Wow!

Unhittable stuff and getting it up to 94

mattnj

by mattnj on Apr 3, 2008 3:36 PM EDT 0 recs

It takes a special person to admit when they are wrong

Dave Duncan, the podium is ready.

Ok Skippy... you're starting. Now START HITTING!

by stltrav09 on Apr 3, 2008 3:37 PM EDT 0 recs

from this game...

I don't see how I can disagree with Duncan that Thompson should be Starting instead of Reyes.

by Evilfrog on Apr 3, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'm talking about the whole

pitch to contact thing.

Ok Skippy... you're starting. Now START HITTING!

by stltrav09 on Apr 3, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

Then you are wrong

Pitching to contact is better over the long run for a STARTER I don't think Duncan has ever pushed it for a reliever.

by StLHugo on Apr 3, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

Ryan Franklin is the setup man

there's no better example of Duncan's emphasis on ground-ball pitchers than that simple fact.

by houstoncardinal on Apr 3, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

Was he changed to do that though?

I don't think Duncan made Franklin a ground ball pitcher, nor did they originally envision him as the set up man.

by StLHugo on Apr 3, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

He has, however,

made his role a more prominent one B/C he gets ground balls.

by houstoncardinal on Apr 3, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

why is pitching to contact better?

where's the evidence to support this? Carlos Silva > Jake Peavy?

by azruavatar on Apr 3, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

Using Peavy is like using Maddux to defend slow pitchers

For an average pitcher, pitching to contact is more efficient than trying to pitch to a strike out

by StLHugo on Apr 3, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

No

pitching to miss bats is better than pitching to hit bats. Batters will get more hits and hit more homers and score more runs when putting their bats on the ball than when they swing and miss. It's not an aberration or some sort of fluke that 90% of the best pitchers in major league history struck out a lot of batters. You can't get hits and hit homers if you can't hit the ball.

What is most efficient is not walking people and getting people out. Giving up hits and runs increases the pitch count much faster than strikeouts do. Therefore, strikeouts are more efficient, and just plain better, than pitching to contact.

by houstoncardinal on Apr 3, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up 1 recs

And it's more fun to watch......

Really, pitchers should pitch to their abilities...if they can miss bats, they should. If they have to pitch so the batter pounds it into the ground, they should, if they produce a lot of fly balls, well, you can't let the hitter square up on them. And make sure you have a good outfield.

Need I remind anyone that Johann does not pitch to contact. He's the first pitcher I'd add to my staff, fantasy or real team......

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 3, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

Lets not forget everyone's faviorite

pitch to contact guy "Maddux" is 11th ALL TIME in strikeouts...

Strikeouts are good
Groud balls are good.

Pitchers that can do both generally make a lot of $$$.

However, it makes no sense to have a pitcher that can only do one of those try to change to do the other. Espically when he has tried and failed at it.

by DriverZn on Apr 3, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up 0 recs

Mr. Maddux is also a good example of pitching to his abilities.

You all know he CAN still get a strikeout when he needs one. I love him......he's fun because you know he can put any pitch exactly where he wants to.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 3, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up 0 recs

jill

this argument brings me back to our discussion the other day about eff-u pitchers

today, anthony was an EFF-U pitcher

Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Apr 3, 2008 9:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

Oh, I love them! Sorry I missed the game.

Yeah, when he is going good, he's got a little of the effu in him.

The Cueto kid in Cincinnatti K'd 10 in his debut.....I'm pretty sure he's that kind of pitcher.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 3, 2008 9:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

I took one of the most effective pitch to contact guys

against one of the most effective strikeout pitchers.

Set aside the inflammatory comparison if you want. You're making a pretty broad and lofty statement (one that I believe to be categorically false) and I'm asking you to support that claim. Can you?

by azruavatar on Apr 3, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

arg

Ok, maybe the way I said it was a bit over the top but I believe in general that a pitcher that is able to get bad contact when he wants it will have just as much success and generally go longer into games as someone that pitches to strike out. The hardest part of trying to "defend" this claim is that I am not familiar with every pitching style of every pitcher so I can't just pick two off the top of my head that easily.

Remember though that one of Peavy's greatest flaws has been that he won't usually give you a CG even when he has his best stuff. Would you rather have a pitcher that consistently goes 7IP or one that usually goes 8+? If the only difference is a few hits and maybe 1ER and you have a good enough offense that I think I would rather have the starter that saves me from having to go to my Pen that often.

Even if pitching for a strike out is the way you prefer I don't see why people have a problem with trying to teach average pitches that some contact isn't bad and that getting a ground out is just as good as a K in most situations and better in others, while worse in only a few cases.

by StLHugo on Apr 3, 2008 10:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

I will take wich ever one give "GOOD" innings

6ip, 1ER is worth more than 7ip, 3er in my book.

Almost no one usually goes 8+ these days. that would be 256+ innings for 32 starts.

I just want the pitchers to do whatever works for them to keep the other team from putting runs on the board. For thompson, thats ground balls. For Reyes thats strikeouts and popups.

Not ever pitcher is a clone.

by DriverZn on Apr 3, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Correct

Not every pitcher is a clone, and I am not saying every pitcher should be a contact pitcher, Reyes isn't and shouldn't be IMO.

by StLHugo on Apr 4, 2008 7:49 AM EDT up 0 recs

A lot of that depends on how reliable your bullpen is

If you have a guy that only goes 5 1/3, then the Kelvim Jiminezes of the world are going to get a lot more innings. Then, they'll more than likely cough up those two runs in the intervening innings.

But, just to amuse myself, I looked at the top 40 guys who qualified for last year's ERA title. I took their IP/G, and gave them a rank order. There was very little correlation between where you showed up on the ERA hunt (at least amongst this top eschelon) and the final ERA.

But, it also seemed that the more strikeouts you accumulated ver the season, the fewer innings per start you managed to get in. Only Scott Kazmir was in the top ten in both IP/start and strikeouts, and he and John Smolts were the only two top ten K guys to crack the top twenty in IP/G.

"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams

by Valatan on Apr 4, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

You...

...Just completely butchered the pitch to contact philosophy. It doesn't mean you literally lob the ball over the plate and let someone hit it. It means that you attack the strike zone early in the count and get ahead of guys. If the guy swings, all he can do is hit a ground ball or pop up somewhere. Once you get to two strikes, you change focus a little bit, and you throw a more aggressive, strike-out pitch.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Apr 3, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

the issue, at least to me, is not Thompson ....

it is Looper ... we'll see how Braden pitches tomorrow ... that's the spot Anthony should have, IMHO ...

Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...

by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 3, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

What?

Loop proved his worth as a starter last year.

He just ran out of gas and needed a little break. I remember some gems he pitched. He should have won a few more games last year but the offense was so spotty.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Apr 3, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

I believe the rain

was the contributing factor to Anthony's success. Helton and Tulo had water in their eyes and couldn't see the ball. I mean, look at Vizcaino out there...he was able to get Albert and Rick to swing at the first pitch.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 3, 2008 3:37 PM EDT 0 recs

would have loved

to see ARay finish out the game....

by Timbo02 on Apr 3, 2008 3:37 PM EDT 0 recs

me too

but lets get izzy a save

i take your signatures and use them as away messages

by ihavebadknees on Apr 3, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

good for reyes

Of course the two guys who won rotation spots ahead of him struck out 12 guys and gave up one run in 12.2 innings.

Reyes continued that as well. I'm not sure why people love ARey so much but dont feel the same about Thompson who is younger and been more productive in his career.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Apr 3, 2008 3:38 PM EDT 0 recs

Can we please...

Not beat this dead horse today. Both guys were great, let's just enjoy it.

by mikedallas45 on Apr 3, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

It isn't Thompson

it is Wellemeyer and Looper that are blocking Reyes. The competition in the Spring was setup under false pretenses. Looper and Wellemeyer shouldn't have been guaranteed jobs.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 3, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

when

Did Mo, LaRussa, or Duncan ever say it was an open competition? That phrase was never used.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Apr 3, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

The one upside

If all the people worried about his mechanics are right, we have a much better chance of him staying healthy in relief.

Also pitch counts dont much matter when you only need to go 1-3 innings

by DriverZn on Apr 3, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

man....

Is Izturis EVER going to get a hit?....

by Timbo02 on Apr 3, 2008 3:39 PM EDT 0 recs

Magic 8 Ball...

...signs unclear. Try again later.

by glennrwordman on Apr 3, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

Over/Under on Izturis getting a hit vs. the Nats this weekend?

by gocards62 on Apr 3, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

Minor league statistics

Reyes has more talent than Thompson.

With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch

by joker24 on Apr 3, 2008 3:40 PM EDT 0 recs

according

to what? I mean, Thompson has been better as a major leaguer and arguably a minor leaguer. At the very least they are even. Yet Anthony is golden boy and Brad not.

I want to see them BOTH succeed.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Apr 3, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up 0 recs

Of course we want both to succeed

To argue Thompson has more upside is plain foolish though. 6.48 k/9 vs 9.72 minor league, even the major league k-rates are vastly different.

With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch

by joker24 on Apr 3, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

i never

used the term upside. The term was talent. I'm not sure talent = upside. Does Reyes have more "upside" (NBA Draft term)? Maybe. But based on results one could argue Thompson has more talent. I like K's and all but it isn't the only tool to evaluate a player.

Thompson had really good minor league numbers and is younger than Reyes.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Apr 3, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up 0 recs