Game 25 Open Thread- The Hangover

by the red baron on Apr 26, 2008 10:43 AM EDT

Wainwright_medium
Roy Oswalt Adam Wainwright

2-3, 6.00 2-1, 2.75

Okay, everybody. Gather round, gather round, now. Don't be shy.

Show of hands: who didn't see that coming?

A friend of mine scored last minute tickets to the game from his father, a season ticket holder, who didn't want to go and brave the elements. And so I found myself at the stadium last night, as Friday turned into Saturday, watching as the Cardinals let yet another one get away. Not a single person in that stadium, all fifty or so of us left, I think, was at all surprised by the ending. You could feel it coming, as the Cardinals let the Astros continue to hang around, never scoring the big blow to put the game away, until the Houston bats finally found a way to break through. Chacon threw 55 pitches, I believe, through the first two innings. Imagine my surprise, then, when I looked up at the end of the sixth and saw him somehow, someway, still on the mound, and not yet at a hundred.

This is beginning to be one of the more confounding teams I can recall, at least in certain ways. They continue to put absurd numbers of baserunners on; they continue to strand pretty much every one of them. Eleven more left on base last night, with the bases left loaded twice early in the game. I have to wonder a bit if Troy Glaus's eyes were bothering him during his at bats, or if he simply heard the smattering of boos after his second K with the sacks jammed and left the game before he broke baseball's most sacred rule, the one about no crying. I feel bad for Glaus; he's been very good lately, yet he doesn't seem to have managed to build up any sort of good will cache. The natives are restless, and a lot of the ire seems to be directed toward Santa. Not saying it's right, just reporting the mood of the crowd.

Of course, with a two hour rain delay before the game, I doubt I need to tell you what we did to pass the time. Luckily, I had brought an umbrella, so we were only cold while wandering downtown, drinking and waiting for the game to begin, rather than cold and soaked.

Izzy is really beginning to worry me, because it doesn't look like there's anything really all that wrong with him. He was throwing the ball hard last night, with at least one 95 on the stadium gun that I saw. He doesn't look hobbled, like he did so often in the 2006 campaign; he just isn't getting the job done lately. It's unfortunate, because this team doesn't have the margin for error to make up for the closer to try and work through his issues on the field.

More than that, though, this offense needs a shot in the arm. I have no idea where it's going to come from, unfortunately, because there aren't really any deals to be made this time of year. I can't imagine a team really looking to move any sort of run producer this early; no one's even really close to being out of it yet. So what's the answer? Do we rehash the lineup discussions again? Does the team need to start being more aggressive at the plate, rather than looking to get on base? That doesn't seem to be a good idea to me; everything I know about the game suggests that more baserunners should equal more runs. I wonder about it a bit, though. Is this team too patient? Personally, I don't think so, but I'm curious to hear what anyone else has to say on the matter.

The offense's job doesn't get any easier today, with Roy Oswalt on the hill for Houston. One of our longtime nemeses, I would love nothing more than to hang about six runs in three innings on Roy, but I don't see it happening. Oswalt struggled mightily in his first three starts of the season, as his breaking ball was nowhere to be found, but he has since righted the ship, much to our collective dismay. I'm hoping to see a little different look in the batting order today; maybe a little shakeup is just what the team needs to get it going. Then again, maybe not. But it certainly can't get much worse than five walks in the first two innings, against Shawn @$&!*$ Chacon, and pushing across two- count 'em- two runs. You may want to throw a shutout today, Adam, to try and avoid another loss on your record.

Enough spleen. I'm going to try and find some way to get rid of this headache. At the very least, I would like to cure the current one before incurring another. Happy Saturday, folks. Enjoy the game.

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Izzy scares me.

How has Perez been pitching this year?

by Evilfrog on Apr 26, 2008 11:00 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Perez

So far 8.2 innings, 9K’s, 2BB’s, and one dinger. So far his control is much better than last year, but I’m fully prepared for some Mitch Williams moments when he eventually gets the call.

by mikedallas45 on Apr 26, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

You know, sometimes pitchers that throw hard and wild can be quite effective.....

Think of the batter-is he going to dig in if he thinks he might get bonked on the chin? You can survive walks if you can miss bats and limit the homeruns. The worry for me would be entering the game with runners on base. Looks like he’s improved on the BB’s this year anyway.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 26, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Oh sure

I think he’ll be pretty effective (and maybe have better control eventually than the original Wild Thing) but when he does have the occasional control meltdown he’s going to make people a little crazy around here.

by mikedallas45 on Apr 26, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Its not uncommon...

...in the world of sports to come across a feel-good team that plays with energy and enthusiasm but just doesn’t have the talent to consistently win. The Cards have been overachievers so far. That’s probably not news to anyone. But, then again, I get the impression by a lot on this sight that the Cards are UNDERachieving so far.

The last fews years we’ve kept thinking, hearing, and saying ourselves, “When all the pistons start firing at once…” or “when they all start hitting at the same time.” But, when has that happened? We do have some talented guys, and we do have players with higher ceilings than are currently being realized. But we shouldn’t expect them to all miraculously turn it on at the same time. And since they probably won’t, we’ll have to settle for a flawed team that plays hard and comes up oh so short too often for our liking.

But, hey, I’m still optimistic. I’m just a fan, and I listen (yeah, no TV coverage for me) to every game thinking that the Cards will somehow pull it out. Isn’t that part of the game’s greatness?

by 82Special on Apr 26, 2008 11:02 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

No doubt.

Im not going to stop watching/listening to the games. It’s not like we are 4 games under .500.

by Evilfrog on Apr 26, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

"when they all start hitting at the same time." But, when has that happened?

August 2004.

Man that was a fun time. You could see the fear on pitchers faces when they took the mound against us.

Ah. Memories

by Harknights on Apr 26, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

You're right.

I remember some times in 2005, too. I meant to say when has that happened in the last couple of years.

by 82Special on Apr 26, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

And you've actually made my point

We have to go back quite awhile to remember the thing that we expect to happen every night.

by 82Special on Apr 26, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Quality

That’s the problem. When batters (Albert included) do swing they are either picking bad pitches or getting bad swings on them. I love Albert and all but when a pitcher starts the game off by walking the first two batters and isn’t even close to the zone how do you take the bat of your shoulder? Come on Albert you are a great two strike hitter and in the first you should have waited for two strikes. In the ninth, what was Skip swinging at? Well it’s a good thing he did swing the ball might have hit him if he didn’t….and so on a so forth. Really, how many hard hit balls did the Cards have last night?

I just don’t get it. How can a team be so good at taking the walks when they are given to them but get such bad swings on the balls they swing at them?

by Harknights on Apr 26, 2008 11:07 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Skip

Was just trying to get a high ball into the outflied to put the runner on third.

by Evilfrog on Apr 26, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Ever play golf?

I have, and I stink.

But that doesn’t mean I won’t try to hit a cut or a fade every now and then. Why? Because the situation calls for it. The problem is, when I try to do more than my talent allows, I end up in more trouble. It seems to me that a lot of our guys are trying to do more than their talent allows right now. Instead of trying to be so strategic and mechanical, you sometimes just need to stick with the basics.

Too much emphasis on situational hitting can cripple players who aren’t magicians with the stick. Not everybody’s a Wade Boggs or Tony Gwinn.

by 82Special on Apr 26, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Ankiel Glaus Duncan

Ankiel will be a great ball player…..If he is not over stressed. The clean-up expectations have him trying to produce “power” over game situation and reason. He is not the same player as he was three weeks ago. He is chasing everything, guessing and pressing. If it wasn’t for the power displays and age, he is playing more like a AA ballplayer as a 19 year old.
Your seeing the “Troy Glaus” of recent years. He came in a salary exchange. The league and scouts already have his number. ........Duncan is hard to figure…..one minute he is stoking the middle, swinging at reasonable pitches. The next he is choking at batting behind Pujol…...he may be “mental”............these teams seem willing to pitch around two hitters at a time to get to Troy…...which is why Duncan walked so much in the last two games. Albert is suffering his reputation.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Apr 26, 2008 11:32 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

It is said...

that more of what gave you the first headache will cure it… (or one just may get too drunk to care; been a l-o-n-g time since I’ve had occasion to try!)

This recent funk can be laid at the “lack of a timely hit” concern; All closers occasionally “blow up”. Izzy’s save percentage is 86% for his career, 87% since coming to the Cardinals in 2002… Mariano Rivera, generally considered the “gold standard” of closers, has a 90% successful ratio since MLB started keeping track of save opportunities in 1999. (He had 84 saves prior to that.)

Other notables:

Eric Gagne 93% (but only 31 of 39 total - 79% - from 2005 on!)
Trevor Hoffman 79% (He racked up 188 saves prior to 1999, so I dunno how many “blown saves” he had in that period.)
Joe Nathan 90%
Billy Wagner 88% (62 saves prior to 1999)
Francisco “K-Rod” Rodriguez 86%
Brad Lidge 83%
Chad Cordero (Nats) 84%
Francisco Cordero (now with the Reds) 83%

Izzy’s been pretty damn good at a position that generally has a short “shelf life”... Yeah, he got belted last night, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he’s out there again today, and shuts ‘em down!

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Apr 26, 2008 11:54 AM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Frustrating...

is what I experienced as I stayed up late to watch the game. Didn’t I see Izzy carve up the first guy? Didn’t I see Izzy go up 1-2 on the second guy, only for a harmless ground ball that our back-up third baseman, (Aaron Freaking Miles??), wave at, resulting in a single? That is what I saw. Then the wheels came off. My question, is 1) why is AM still on this team- as his only real defensive postion is second base. 2) Why isn’t our weak hitting shortstop on the DL? 3) Why does the smartest manager in baseball continue to put this team in a hole- by not bringing up healthy players- even for a short time period, rather than keeping a player on the roster that isn’t able to play? Argggggggggg. My head hurts…and I really don’t want to watch Oswalt continue his dominance over us today- thank God I can watch the Rams pick the wrong guy! (Maybe I will play golf)!

by gman79100 on Apr 26, 2008 12:21 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

no cuts or fades, remember

My first memory of Cardinals baseball is seeing Daryl Porter jump into Bruce Sutter's arms!

by 82Special on Apr 26, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

LOL

Chris Duncan sent Oswalt an invoice after he broke three bats against him in one game last year.

by Evilfrog on Apr 26, 2008 12:33 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Ok, that's pretty funny

I needed that after that craptastic loss against the ‘stros last night.

by cloistermaximus on Apr 26, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Am I the only one

that think we can give Oswalt a run for his money today? This team, in some cases more than others out of the past ten years, excites me to no end. I look forward to each game more, and I really like the group of guys we have, even though they can piss ya off in a hurry.

Izzy is well, Izzy. He’s probably being used too much this early as been stated a few times. The problem with last night is that we should have never been in a save situation to begin with.

How many times have we had a starting pitcher above 50 pitches after two innings only to see them get an effective outing when it’s all said and done? I would hazard to guess that it has happened more than not. When we go back for our second round against the pitcher we’re not making him continue to work. And if we are, we’re not putting enough runs to chase him out.

Being the first game in the series, it also has series implications as well as now they have a rested relief core for the rest of the series. It’s frustrating.

I can’t wait for Izzy to get his 300th save. I feel he’s probably the most underrated closer in the past decade or so. Even though he’s going to give me an ulcer I love the guy, but I don’t want him to try for th 300th by mid May, I’m happy with July.

Rick needs to get back to hitting for contact rather than swinging for power. The more contact he has, the better his power will follow. Right now he’s swinging through pitches instead of looking for pitches to make contact with.

Glaus’ numbers really don’t look bad at all once you remove the home night games, which leads to if there is a problem in that situation, we need to remedy it. Of course finding anything out from the black box isn’t going to be easy. And I’ll still contend that the past 2-3 years at least, if not longer our biggest liability is the medical staff we’ve had.

Here’s hoping to Glaus using the next couple of day games to put some decent performances up. His defense has been a reasonable suprise, now only if his numbers can average up to match.

by AdjustedExpectations on Apr 26, 2008 12:46 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Naw you're not the only one.

I always manage to talk myself into the Cardinals scoring 10 runs and our Starter shutting out the other team.

by Evilfrog on Apr 26, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

+1

My first memory of Cardinals baseball is seeing Daryl Porter jump into Bruce Sutter's arms!

by 82Special on Apr 26, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

the offense is sort of reminding me of the last couple years. it can be anemic, but then when everything starts clicking, they score 8 runs easily and could score a lot more. how are we going to start getting those clutch hits?

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 26, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

line-up

According to gameday.

Skippy – RF
Ankiel – CF
Albert – where ever he feels like
Duncan – LF
Gluas – 3B
Kennedy – 2B
LaRue – C
Wainwright – P
Ryan – SS

by Evilfrog on Apr 26, 2008 12:52 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

situational hitting....

It seems that we have developed the perception that the cardinals situation hitting stinks. Looking at the numbers, they don’t. Small sample size caveat of course (~300 PA for RISP, ~500 for no one one, ~30 with bases loaded)

Ave, OBP, SLG, OPS, BABIP
RISP: .257 .376 .371 .747 .298
none on: .264 .354 .415 .769 .293
bases loaded: .360 .357 .440 .797 .409

The OPS is slightly higher when the bases are empty, but not by much. And it is actually about 30 points higher with the bases loaded. They are hitting as well with RISP as with bases empty. We weight the RISP situation more heavily so it seems like they always fail, when in fact they ‘succeed’ as often as they normally do. You might argue that they should hit better in RISP situations, which would be great, but we can’t expect that (for what it is worth, the hottest team in baseball does hit better with RISP – the Dbacks have OPS of .882 with RISP compared to .720 with the bases empty, but the BABIP is about 25 points higher with RISP).

by cdb on Apr 26, 2008 1:00 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Doh

Fiddlesticks.

by Evilfrog on Apr 26, 2008 1:12 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

hmmmm

please dont be one of THOSE games after last night

by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 26, 2008 1:13 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Wainer is not looking sharp right now

by mizzoustlfan on Apr 26, 2008 1:17 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Nice Wainer!

by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 26, 2008 1:18 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

He doesn't look that bad

The 1 HR sucked. But Lee look silly on that swing. And his pickoff move looks alright.

by Evilfrog on Apr 26, 2008 1:19 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Got the slider going against Lee, looked like he got away with one to Berkman

by mizzoustlfan on Apr 26, 2008 1:20 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Is it always this empty on the weekends?

or is something wrong with the site?

by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 26, 2008 1:27 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Everyone...

Still sleeping off the hang over from last night?

by Evilfrog on Apr 26, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Either that or they're still pissed off ...

Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...

by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 26, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

they should get over it.

We’re going to lose at least 50 more this year.

by Evilfrog on Apr 26, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

late game last night

+ tough loss + weekend w/ decent weather all adds up

by AdjustedExpectations on Apr 26, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

has anyone else noticed that Wainer’s Curve is slightly different this year more lateral break than last year

by mizzoustlfan on Apr 26, 2008 1:33 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

damnit glaus

not another strikeout

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 26, 2008 1:35 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

The man is pressing way too hard.

The Dude abides.

by drewmaniac on Apr 26, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

So how many more times are we going to hear about Gibson's 4 solo home run given up win

With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch

by joker24 on Apr 26, 2008 1:36 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

take one for the team buddy

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 26, 2008 1:38 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Well, LaRue found a way to get on base, finally ...

Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...

by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 26, 2008 1:39 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

heh

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 26, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Wainer vs. Oswalt

nice

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 26, 2008 1:39 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

I'd like to see Wainer

touch ‘em all and get that solo shot back.

The Dude abides.

by drewmaniac on Apr 26, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

That didn't happen...

The Dude abides.

by drewmaniac on Apr 26, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

nor would it have.

It’s hard to hit a solo shot with a man on first.

by Evilfrog on Apr 26, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

atleast we are making him throw some pitches

by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 26, 2008 1:40 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

gotta wear him down

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 26, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

wow.

Didn’t see that comming. GJ adam.

by Evilfrog on Apr 26, 2008 1:43 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

Ausmus is an idiot ...

Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...

by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 26, 2008 1:43 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

He can play worth a sh*t, so I guess he thinks this is his contribution ...

Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...

by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 26, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

no tv

what’s happening?

My first memory of Cardinals baseball is seeing Daryl Porter jump into Bruce Sutter's arms!

by 82Special on Apr 26, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

ausmus is an idiot

waino threw a ball that went behind Ausmus’s back. Brad then got all bitchy and started yelling, so both benches/bullpens cleared.
no one fought or got ejected.

"Them Cubbies can kiss my ass" -Dizzy Dean

by Molina4MVP on Apr 26, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply reply 0 recs

Benches clear

Kick his ass, Adam.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 26, 2008 1:44 PM EDT reply reply 0 recs

stability

my 2 cents is to stabilize the lineup and not try to play prognosticator every game. it doesn’t seem to me that our players are so good that they (e.g., miles) can play 3 positions at an effective major league level day in and day out. same for which outfield position. the business with barton in right instead of left because it is “tricky” is simply over thinking the situation. anyone who plays the same position day in, day out will get a better jump on the ball. you know balls will be hit out there, but maybe never to the tricky part. i just think tony is overdoing it because he is convinced so many of his guys aren’t everyday players. that’s bs to me until proven otherwise. i point out how much luddy improved last year as he got more consistent playing time. can he do it full time? who knows, he’ll never get a chance with tlr. same for ryan.
frustrating

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!

by sportsman on Apr 26, 2008 1:44 PM EDT reply reply 1 recs