A Tale of Two Pitches
by the red baron on Apr 23, 2008 7:17 AM EDT
108 comments
That was the single strangest game I think I've ever seen. We witnessed seventeen runs between the two clubs, spread over twelve innings. We saw the Cardinals strand sixteen runners on the basepaths; it may not be a record, but it definitely seems like it should be. We saw Albert Pujols play his first professional innings as a second baseman, (All Star appearances don't count) balky elbow and all. Most of all, though, what we saw was two pitches that determined the outcome.
Two pitches. Two hanging breaking balls. And that's your ballgame.
In the bottom of the sixth inning, with Rickie Weeks at the plate and the bases loaded, Brad Thompson threw a slider that was supposed to be on the outer half, down. Instead, it spun right in to the middle of the plate. You couldn't have put a ball on a tee any more perfectly. The result was predictable; Weeks ripped it down into the left field corner for a three run triple.
The last pitch of the game, a hanging curve from Jason Isringhausen to Gabe Kapler, functioned as a nice bookend, as well as an unfortunate end to the game and the series. Izzy walked Gabe Gross ahead of Kapler; Gross then easily stole second base off of Molina and Izzy. Game over, folks. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.
Am I the only one getting a little worried about Izzy? He's pitched an awful lot already here in the early going, and he's beginning to show some of the same tendencies we saw from him during his 2006 death march; his velocity has been inconsistent, he's walked more than what you like to see from your closer, and his breaking pitches haven't been very sharp. I don't know if he's hurt again, and I wouldn't speculate. I hope he's just a little fatigued, but as often as he's thrown already, I fear that bionic hip of his is taking on a bit more than it can handle.
As I said, there were really two pitches that determined the outcome of the game, but there were certainly plenty of other noteworthy events that led up to those pitches.
A while back, I complimented Tony on the way he had handled the team so far. I still think he's doing a pretty decent job, but there are some worrisome trends I see emerging.
Tony's always been a meddler, but he seems to have taken it to a new level here recently, with the bench being pretty much completely empty by the seventh inning more often than not. Case in point: Brian Barton. Again in yesterday's game, we saw Barton being taken out of the game when the situation didn't really call for it. At least this time, it was for a pinch hitter, (Rick Ankiel) and not a defensive substitution, but the fact remains that the Cardinals had a very short bench yesterday, and Tony substituted for one of his outfielders in a situation when he didn't really need to. I'm not sure what Tony's deal with Barton is exactly, but his refusal to let the guy play a whole game is consistently eating into an already short, (and none too strong to begin with) reserve corps. We saw the same thing in the previous series against Milwaukee, during the 10 inning loss. The Cardinals ended the game with Rico Washington at the plate, having used every position player they had available.
Given the severe lack of depth the Cardinals have in the infield, I foresee a lot of this sort of thing this season, where Tony double switches his way into a corner. Hopefully, Wainwright works on his pinch hitting.
Of course, the elephant in the room is Albert and his elbow. With no bench players available, Tony was forced into moving Jason LaRue to first, Albert to second, and bring Yadi in off the bench to play the last couple of innings.
After the game, Tony answered as he usually does when asked about Albert's physical ailments. "He knows how to take care of himself. He'll play under control. He isn't going to do anything risky to jeopardize his health." Of course, when asked about it, Albert admitted that, given the chance to turn a double play, he probably would have taken it and gone for the throw. Is this really a good idea? You have one of the most driven athletic talents in the world, the face of the franchise, playing a position he's not used to, trying to control the impulse to throw the ball if he needs to. Seems like a bad idea to me, but I guess that's why I'm not the manager.
Cesar Izturis is expected to sit a few games but not go on the DL. The Cards are going to have to make a move today in order to bring in some reinforcements; as much as Tony probably doesn't like it, it's probably Brendan Ryan or bust. I fully expect Brad Thompson to make yet another trip down to Memphis. For his sake, I really hope that Mr. Mozeliak can find some sort of trade package to include Thompson in. He has nothing else to prove at Triple A, yet there isn't much of a spot for him here. i doubt Wonderbrad on his own would fetch much of anything, but I know there are several teams around the majors looking for pitching help of the cheap fill in variety; throw in a minor league relief arm or two, and maybe you've got yourself a deal going.
My first choice in such a scenario would still be Brent Lillibridge, the shortstop in the Braves organisation. He's athletic, fast, defensively talented, and blocked. The Braves' staff at the moment is a shambles; get on the phone, Mo.
Forgive the quick post this morning, folks, but I'm a bit pressed for time. Let's all give thanks the Cards are off to PNC Park tonight; home away from home.
Hopefully, we get the best of times, and not the alternative.
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Good post, Baron
Who do you propose packaging w/Thompson that could get the Braves interest?
Also do you think TLR could live w/Hoff, Barden, or Freese in the interim?
by gocards62 on Apr 23, 2008 8:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
TLR's Meddling
I agree 100%. Given the short bench and long bullpen, meddling for no discernable reason was a poor strategic move. It’s almost as if he feels certain players are not equipped to play a full 9 innings.
As for Pittsburgh, can we get started on some sort of Miles-as-starting-SS drinking game?
by bgh on Apr 23, 2008 9:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Every "through the hole and past Miles" is a shot
You’ll be dead after the 4th inning.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on Apr 23, 2008 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on!
I talk as much trash on miles as the next guy… but would it really hurt to lay off for at least 2 days following a day at the plate that put up 4/5 and a walk? Or at least a bit of credit for it?
I know youre just criticizing his range at SS, but cant a brother get a break?
by cd on Apr 23, 2008 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His four singles yesterday were great
But, as you rightly point out, it does not make him an acceptable defensive SS.
Great job at the plate yesterday, Grit.
TLR, please do not play Grit at SS. He doesn’t have the range or the arm.
by bgh on Apr 23, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm aware I have an irrational and powerful dislike of all things Aaron Miles
But I can’t help it.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on Apr 23, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it's worth pointing out
that just because Ryan was called up doesn’t mean he is starting. We will start Miles and Kennedy vs a RHP, more than likely. Ryan’s callup may even be a cup-of-coffee until Mulder is healthy.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh kill me now
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on Apr 23, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
13 pitchers again
would be the result of Mulder up/Ryan down. I don’t believe they are going to go with a short bench when/if Mulder is ready. Rico got enough action in his two weeks.
by ubeddie on Apr 23, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TLR meddling
Agree on the thrust of the post. TLR can be a hyperactive control freak. When he first came to STL, I just went nuts watching the unending parade of relievers. His bullpen wasn’t settled at first and he bring several guys a game just to face one or two hitters. This year, the bullpen is already pretty much settled into slots so the outfield is his outlet for the hyperactive manager to “mettle”. Nice choice of words.
Brent Lillibridge. What kind of package do think it would take to get him?
by jjray on Apr 23, 2008 9:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You're not the only one
worrying about Isringhausen. He simply doesn’t look right.
As for “meddling,” hindsight is 20/20. Nobody manages “expecting” a game to go 12 innings. Moves that look like “meddling” in retrospect may look entirely normal from the standpoint of trying to win (or expecting to lose) a 9-inning game. Going deep into extra innings is such a pathological condition that I personally won’t criticize a manager, whether TLR or any other, for getting into a tight lineup spot when it happens.
Finally, as regards an Iz2 stand-in, neither Barden nor Freese are realistic options, as neither are on the 40-man roster. Someone would have to be let go. In a pinch it might be possible to use the 60-day DL to create space, but that simply postpones the crunch, it doesn’t solve it. Hoffpauir is more realistic if Ryan isn’t ready to go, being on the 40-man, but he doesn’t really solve the problem of having no viable shortstop. It’s ironic that the one guy whom most fans were the most unhappy to see picked up is now the one who creates the biggest problem in replacing once he’s injured….
by StanTheManFan on Apr 23, 2008 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
4 inning start
I agree with Stan about the meddling – you can’t expect to go 12. Also, the four inning start by Lohse hurt.
by cdb on Apr 23, 2008 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Replacing Cesar Izturis is no chore ...
Put Ryan or Hoffpauir in there and you’ve upgraded the position … all you have to do is decide which you like most … and Ryan has more experience … I don’t see a big problem at all … if Ryan wasn’t re-habbing there would be no issue whatsoever … I think he is ready to play, though … and I’m glad circumstances has forced Tony to play a better over-all SS … no ill or venom intended towards Cesar at all … I just want to play the best nine …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 23, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hoffpauir
Are you kidding me? He can’t play MLB SS, he would be no better than Miles at SS.
Ryan and Iz are the only guys who should be playing anywhere near the SS position. If they suck maybe go get Jose Martinez to play SS.
by ICbirdfan on Apr 23, 2008 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Yeah, that was my point. If Miles or Kennedy had been hit instead of Iz2, Hoffpauir would be a viable replacement. As is, bringing Hoff up would require someone to play short who doesn’t belong there. No other player on the 40-man is viable at short either except for Ryan, so if he’s still not ready, we’re screwed.
by StanTheManFan on Apr 23, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Izzy is consistent
I think even when we get the good Izzy, say last year’s version, he still allows a ton of people on base, e.g. BB/9 in 2007 is 3.86 which ranked 29th among closers. I think Izzy is a great guy, and most fans, including myself, seem to like him. But Izzy is a top 3rd type of closer that, IMHO, is replaceable (#-wise, not sure about the mental aspect though) w/o great loss. I wonder if Mo came to Izzy and said something like, “Izzy, we have this great offer for you to go to another contender, would you be willing to consider it to help the ball club for the long run.” I wonder if Izzy would be willing to sacrifice and move?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Apr 23, 2008 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Replaceable?
He converted 32 of 34 save opportunities last year and took the win in the two that he blew. That’s 34 team victories in 34 save opportunities. Show me a closer that is affordable that can match that level of performance. That’s not to mention the intangible aspects (you referred to these).
"...but If I can do some damage and help my team win, I'm going to stay in there" -Albert
by BigMOman on Apr 23, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on definition of replaceable
By replaceable, I don’t mean that Izzy is average. I think he is in the top third, depending on how one weighs specific stats. If you think BS is the most important closer stat, then sure Izzy was right up there last year with Putz. But the differential b/t Izzy and 17 other closers was 2 BSs. Izzy’s Cards BS#s are 5, 3, 7, 4, 10 (injury year), and 2, which is pretty good discounting 2006.
But when you say level of performance, I would look at other stats, and not S (I am not saying you are) and not BS. For example if you look at Izzy’s 2007 numbers: FIP=3.7 or 37th percentile, K/BB=1.93 or 16th percentile (near bottom), WPA=2.7 or 75th percentile. I ranked Izzy in the top third because of those 3 stats as I weighed WPA heavier. I actually think that Izzy’s $8M can be spent better elsewhere, and that we might be able to find someone, probably in-house, to do a comparable job and not have a siginificant drop off. I know that trading Izzy is unrealistic because of the 5/10, but I don’t think calling Izzy replaceable is necessarily an insult to him (he is a good closer) or is too far-fetched.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Apr 23, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Remembering the Dave Veres era, (much less the Ricky Bottallico choke era) makes me wonder about just how replaceable Izzy is. Maybe Perez would be fine. Maybe not. I’d rather we find out before just dumping izzy
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
by Valatan on Apr 23, 2008 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's really too bad Motte/Perez are oh so blocked
Motte is throwing cheese right now…17 Ks in 9.2 innings and Perez is pure filth.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on Apr 23, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"ton of people on base"?
His WHIP last year was 1.071. Excluding 2006, when his injury clearly affected his performance, his highest WHIP with the Cardinals was 1.186 in 2005.
by DCGreg on Apr 23, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why many are worried this year
WHIP 1.39
Izzy doesn’t have the same stuff he did a few years back and is more dependand on control. So when he is walking people again this year we worry. Now its early and this could just be sample size issues, or it could be a real problem.
by DriverZn on Apr 23, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this year, it seems you can tell
how dominant he is going to be one or two pitches in—if that sinker is working, it’s going to be a shutdown save. If not… then it’s time to prepare for a bit of an adventure.
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
by Valatan on Apr 23, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was great early on
a 0.00 ERA through last week’s game at SF. Since then he’s suffered.
I always think Izzy’s stats are weird because it’s clear that he zones in and out on what pitches (of his 8 or so) are working. If he has a number of appearances in a row where he needs to adjust he tends to suffer, like this last week.
by enoscountry on Apr 23, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but he's only walked three
in 9 1/3 innings, better than the aforementioned 3.86 BB/9 of last year. Yesterday was the first walk that came back to bite him. (The other two came in game that he saved.) So I’m not sure what you mean when you say you worry about his walks.
Really, we’re dealing with such small sample sizes that this discussion is rather pointless. He was an excellent closer last year and, if he’s healthy, we have every reason to expect that he’ll be a very good closer this year. Until there’s more evidence cutting the other way, there’s really not much to debate.
by DCGreg on Apr 23, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paging Dr. Ryan
I have a fever and the only perscription is a hyperactive SS with OPS capabilities.
by bgh on Apr 23, 2008 9:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wagonmaker pinch-hitting, Albert playing 2nd
Unfortunately this kind of crap tends to happen from time to time when you insist on carrying a 12-man pitching staff in the NL, but file that under “Things that will never change”. I realize that most teams have 12-man staffs these days, but that doesn’t automatically make it the optimal strategery.
by mikedallas45 on Apr 23, 2008 9:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There goes Tony talking trash on Ryan again:
And keep in mind that when La Russa chose to address his opinions on Ryan, he did so in a call BEFORE the game against the Brewers, and hours before shortstop Cesar Izturis got injured. Because of that injury, Brendan Ryan will be called up from his minor-league injury rehab on Wednesday, and he’ll join the Cardinals in Pittsburgh. But it’s important to note that La Russa praised Ryan before he actually needed to summon Ryan).Anyway, here’s what TLR had to say, and yes, he was polite:
"It’s a mistake to say that there’s something I don’t like about Brendan Ryan. I’ve heard that, and read that the other day, and I know people are thinking that. So…
"When you manage, you can’t afford to be personal with dislikes or likes. It has to be objective, because there’s a lot at stake. But also, besides that qualifier, there isn’t anything about Brendan that bothers me. There isn’t anything personal.
"I like him, and I think he knows it. I’m concerned that he would start to have some doubts, and this would affect his game.
"The only thing is, he plays ‘young.’ And at some point you need to call that to his attention. Otherwise, he’s not going to improve, and he’s not going to be the player he can be. This is a guy that played a lot for us last year, because he played well, and he deserved it.
"And when he gets in shape, and he can help us, he’ll be a part of the team
Really. I hate to see an injury lead to someone loosing a position. But I can’t say Im going to be upset to see Ryan starting tonight. (and for the rest of the year.) So um, heal up Izturis. Don’t rush your return. You never know with these nerve things. We won’t want it to force an early retirement. So dont rush it.
by Evilfrog on Apr 23, 2008 9:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
surprise
surprise…. so tony DOES actually want to put the best team on the field every day…..
by cdb on Apr 23, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have said that the whole time
Too bad it’s going to crush alot of posters ideas of how TLR wants to slit Ryan’s throat. Like Tony said Ryan plays “young” at times which can be frustrating to a manager. I just think TLR has been around so many vetrans or young guys who play like veterans he just needs to adjust to some guys who don’t play that smart all the time.
by ICbirdfan on Apr 23, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree a bit.
It shouldn’t be Tony’s job tyo adjust to guys that don’t play that smart all the time. It should be the players making the adjustments necessary in order to stop making dumb plays.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Apr 23, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's good to see Tony clarify himself on Ryan ...
I think he is a reasonable guy and I couldn’t imagine him really factoring in petty personality squabbles in a playing decision … he’s just too good for that … but he needs to be careful what he says about players in public … and stating that even after re-hab, Ryan had dim chances of being put back on the team, with our middle infield MESS, and a starting SS struggling to hit .190, was just a dumb thing to say … it was bizarre … sometimes you say something nice, or you say nothing at all … I hope he learned a bit of a lesson …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 23, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please stop second guessing LaDunc's comments
Evilfrog,
Thanks for posting the quotes, I haven’t read them before. I think it ironic that some folks are accusing TLR of using the media to get messages to his players, when TLR has to disavow that in the media. I wonder what does more damage to a player? LaDunc’s actually comments about players which are somewhat equivocal, or some people’s interpretation of those comments that focus on the negative and even suggest that LaDunc have personal vandettas against individual players.
I just don’t think it necessary for a player to be absolutely praised after a good game and absolutely dished after a bad one. The fact the LaDunc tempers their praise after a good game (Ryan, AR), and dosen’t harp on a player after a bad game(s) (e.g. Izz2’s poor D in ST), to me is good for the long term development of players. I know that others disagree…
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Apr 23, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's still bogus
Brendan Ryan may ‘play’ young but he is an upgrade at SS over the WORST HITTER IN BASEBALL OVER THE LAST 5 SEASONS. Now, maybe Ryan would have gotten more starts at SS if he had not been injured. I don’t know. However, if Tony wants to dissuade Brendan of any doubts about himself, maybe Tony should STOP TELLING HIM HE IS NOT A SS! The guy has been a MIF most of his career. When he came up, what did Tony do? He created magical lineups that had a 2B SS (Miles), a SS 3B (Ryan) and a 3B @ 2B (Barden). He has repeatedly said that Ryan is more of a 3B than a SS.
That is confounding. His bat plays better at SS (meaning his production makes sense at SS) and his range is good enough to field the position. However, he plays ‘young’. You know who else plays ‘young’? Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes. Brendan Ryan isn’t Jose Reyes, trust me, I’m not making that argument. However, you’d have to wonder if LaRussa would tell them they should try playing 2B because of their ‘young-iness’.
You also have to wonder if LaRussa was told by management to stop undercutting our only other option @ SS in public quotes so that we don’t look utterly desperate when trying to acquire a MLB-competent SS via trade.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So tony thinks that Ryan fields 3b better than ss
he has a right to that opinion. And he finds a way to make things work. Remember when he was CONVINCED that Albert was a 3B? When that didn’t work out, he fond a way to put him in the outield, and then moved him to 1B when the Tino experiment ended.
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
by Valatan on Apr 23, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
He finds a way to make things work, although it generally appears it is out of necessity and not out of providence. He’s a stubborn man with some things but can be forward thinking with others. He’s quite the enigma.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan
Let me first say on this current Cardinals team I am very excited to get Brendan up to the show. I think he obviously would help “THIS” team. At the same time I realize Brendan Ryan is not that great of a player either. See I realize he has may have a bit (a slight bit) more upside than what the Cards currently have.
Ok let me move on from there.
TLR would play Ramirez and Reyes at SS becaue they are so much better than Ryan it’s not worth mentioning their name in the same sentence, paragrah, or page. I think I would like to see Iz at SS and Ryan at 2B as I like that defensive grouping verymuch.
It seems that Iz has gotten some big hits for the birds and I feel he has been a definite upgrage from SS last year. Not that it is hard to play a better defensive SS than Eck who had poor range and a poor arm. He played smart but there were a lot of plays Eck had no chance of making.
It is common knowledge that STL is hurting at SS & 2B. Look at who is playing there… Izturis, Miles, Kennedy, Ryan….... I have heard Chi town radio people discussing how bad STL is. It does not take a genius to recognize the fact that STL needs MI help.
by ICbirdfan on Apr 23, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Izturis has 11 hits and 14 TB
those must have been some REALLY important hits for the team.
He may be an upgrade defensively at SS over last year, but that isn’t saying much. His defense will NEVER make up for hitting sub-.200 without any power.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
talent
I too have been frustrated watching Ryan waste away. But as you say – ryan isn’t Reyes or Ramirez. He simply is not as gifted as those young shortstops. ‘young’ mistakes are more tolerated, by any manager, when you have that much talent to make up for those mistakes. Ryan will likely never be an all-star, so he needs to play consistently good to above average to earn time. Izturis bat is weak, but his defense has been very good.
Yes – Tony’s statements to the press often don’t make any sense, and are often difficult to rectify with previous statements. Can’t explain that.
by cdb on Apr 23, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bench options
I think the biggest reason that LaRussa would trot out those awful defensive arrangements last year (and in years past) was that he was trying to find out what kind of versatility each guys offered. Legitimate opinion or not, LaRussa did not feel that Ryan was an everyday SS and it was basically useless for him to remain just a SS. The easy move is to try him at 2B which went fairly well, young mistakes notwithstanding. The reach was to try him at 3B, which he has the physical skills to handle but had not really played the position. Same thing holds true for Barden at 2B; he’s basically useless as a backup 3B, but he has some value as a utility infielder. The biggest problems I had with the whole situation were that: 1) he was intentionally putting an awful defense out there; and 2) there was too much on-the-job training that would preferably take place down in Memphis.
C’mon, now many times did we bitch, watching Eduardo Perez or Marlon Anderson stumbling around in RF? It wasn’t because they were any good out there. I’m actually surprised we didn’t see more of Taguchi at the keystone position.
That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.
by Solanus on Apr 23, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
What’s the maximum length of rehab stints in the minors again?
by mikedallas45 on Apr 23, 2008 9:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
20 days once they start their rehab assignment
ryan started on the 13th IIRC
by azruavatar on Apr 23, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking more like
Sending Izturis out on rehab for the maximum :)
by mikedallas45 on Apr 23, 2008 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damnit Albert. Take a walk
After leading in the count 3-0 against Guillermo Mota, Pujols took a strike, then swung at two low pitches to strike out for only the seventh time this season. “I felt I didn’t want to walk, and I took myself out of the strike zone to swing at that pitch,” Pujols said. “The 3-0 pitch was a little low. But I tried to push too much. I should’ve taken my walk. It’s something you learn. You press. It’s the way the game goes.”
Ok. I understand wanting to get into the game and will it. But really. Take what is given and hurt them when they make a mistake.
by Evilfrog on Apr 23, 2008 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pujols' numbers this year
20 BB, 7 K.
by chuckb on Apr 23, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has expanded the zone with runners on
all year.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, really
You’re questioning Albert’s hitting? Heh.
by sdrone on Apr 23, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't questioning it.
Albert was.
by Evilfrog on Apr 23, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Must win series at Pittsburgh
I don’t mind splitting a set with the Brewers.. I think yesterdays loss only stings because the Cubs simply won’t lose lately, and we all hate to see them gain too much ground. However, the Pirates are a terrible team, playing terrible baseball right now. The birds absolutely must take both games here. I think losing to the bucko’s would drive me absolutely batty after watching them play like a little league team against the cubs a few days ago.
by cloistermaximus on Apr 23, 2008 10:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pirates
They have given up the most runs in MLB this year. Their pitching is awful, this is the type of team the Cards can not afford to lose to. This was the type of team the Cubs have been losing to the past few years but they seem to be beating bad teams now.
STL must not take Pitt lightly but they really do need to win the series.
by ICbirdfan on Apr 23, 2008 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really agree on Izzy
His walk rate this year is less than 3 per 9 IP - lower than last year’s rate and lower than his career rate. It’s much lower than the 5.90 BB rate he posted two years ago. Another problem he had 2 years ago was the number of homers he yielded - 10 in 58 IP. This year he’s yet to give up his first homer. His K rate’s a little better than normal but he has yielded more hits than IP. He has given up 4 doubles in 42 PA’s—that’s pretty high but the rest of his numbers aren’t too bad and don’t in any way resemble the problems he had in 2006.
His workload does concern me some. He’s already pitched in 10 of 21 games and thrown 9.3 IP in those 21 games. He’s on a pace for 77 games and 72 IP for the season. The games pitched would be a career high and the IP would be the highest since 2004. In fact, only once since he was 23 years old has he thrown 72 IP in a season. That is problematic. Tony’s going to have find some others he can trust out in that pen or stick w/ his starters or relievers a little longer in order to keep Izzy from exploding.
I think we’re likely to play a lot of close games this year which means many opportunities to use Izzy. Tony’s going to have to use him more judiciously as the season goes along than he has the first 21 games.
by chuckb on Apr 23, 2008 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
several relievers are looking at very substantiual workloads
I’m more concerned about McClellan and his projected 100 innings. If Izzy gets hurt, not that I want him to, it’s an injury that impacts us for 5 months. If McClellan gets hurt, it can have much longer repercussions.
This is what happens when we have players like Looper, Thompson, Pineiro and (to an extent) Wellemeyer who can’t go deep consistently in games.
by azruavatar on Apr 23, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it very interesting that they are babying Reyes
With McClellan hopefully a future starter but being abused, I wonder if Reyes is being preserved for trade value. It seems if Reyes goes more than 1 inning, he’s off for as many days as innings he pitched.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All about trade positioning
I think they’re really making sure to use him only in spots where he’s very likely succeed and drive up his trade value that way. Making sure he’s well rested is definitely one of way to make sure he’s successful.
by birdo rojo on Apr 23, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough Call
The whole inning issue is always a tough call. I know K Mac has had arm surgery in the past so maybe he would be better suited being watched very closely.
Relly a lot of arm issues are caused by poor mechanics and bad genetics with a bit of luck I bet.
I think pitchers need to actually learn to pitch more innings rather than bee overly concerned about their use. I think there is not having pitchers throw enough and there is dangerously misusing pitchers.
It is always a tough call.
by ICbirdfan on Apr 23, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about the starters
and that’s a great point on Izzy vs. McClellan. McClellan’s workload is much more important than Izzy’s is at this point.
by chuckb on Apr 23, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting "History Knock" in the P-D
HISTORY KNOCKSSunday’s 8-2 loss to the San Francisco Giants was rather ordinary except for the extended relief appearances made by Ron Villone and Anthony Reyes. The game marked the first time since July 27, 1990 that two Cardinals relievers worked at least three innings apiece. That day, Frank DiPino and Scott Terry each worked three innings of a 10-1 loss started by Bryn Smith.
The whole story is worth a read. We might even have Springer’s nickname. The P-D calls him “The Old Dude.”
by bgh on Apr 23, 2008 10:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jayson Nix is out of options
the Rockies have a dilimma on their hands. The once thought of “Second baseman of the future” for their franchise is out of options. Couple that with the struggles of Tulo this early in the season and the emergence of Clint Barmes as their everyday 2B and there seems to be no room for them to make a move to promote any other MIF from within the organization. Nix is struggling something fierce early on in this season.
Perhaps Mo could give them a call to gauge interest and see if we can fill their bullpen needs.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Krivsky out; Jocketty in for the Reds.
Cardnial-related, right?
Appears the Reds have fired Wayne Krivsky as GM & put in Ol’ Walter.
by glamboomer on Apr 23, 2008 11:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Give Walter a call
Tell him we will give him Pineiro, Mulder, Kennedy and Thompson for Dunn.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing..
Cueto available?
Boomer.
by glamboomer on Apr 23, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just figured we could clean out some of the stuff
he left us with and get something in return.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's wrong with the Reds?
Really, why did they need to do this?
Where do they really need to improve?
What does Walt do that Krivsky wasn’t doing?
Talent-wise, they seem to be in a pretty good place, no?
I know they’re scuffling so far, but this seems really impatient on their part.
The owner there has old Cardinal ties, correct?
Boomer.
by glamboomer on Apr 23, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
walt has had better luck constructing bullpens...
Krivsky seemed to obsess over subpar bullpen arms, and a lot of the deals he got chastised for were made in trying to acquire pitching help and depth. Moreover, they weren’t very successful moves at that. Krivsky made only two strong decisions that panned out: trading for Bronson Arroyo and stealing Brandon Phillips off the spring training scrap heap.
Jocketty also has more experience in negotiating contracts with core players. This may be a sign that they keep Dunn rather than trade him.
On a side note, the Jocketty-Dusty relationship should be fun to watch unfold, eh?
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
by taiko on Apr 23, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think Dusty will last long under WJ? He shouldn't.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Apr 23, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand.
Is there some kind of Jocketty-Baker feud I don’t know about?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 23, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about the Kearns Lopez trade
for Magic man and Bray? It was a bust. Majevsky was broke and the Krisky never sought recourse. How about signing Josh Fogg?
He got lucky on Phillips but nothing else has worked for him.
Now we have Baketty.
by enoscountry on Apr 23, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being a little unfair to Krivsky about that trade?
Everybody rails on the Kearns-Lopez trade like it was Brock for Broglio, but what really happened there?
Felipe Lopez doesn’t even play right now. He’s currently sitting behind Christian Guzman at SS & Ronnie Belliard at 2B.
Krivsky got Jeff Keppinger for nothing & is now playing SS for the Reds (Lopez’s old position there) and is currently hitting .329 / .370 / .482…
Was that really a disaster?
And is Austin Kearns better than what the Reds currently have? Remember that if you take him instead of Corey Patterson / Jay Bruce that means that Griffey would move to CF… Kearns has hit .257 / .360 / .407 for the Nats since the trade…
If I recall, The Reds did file a grievance against the Nationals over Majewski’s health…
I believe at the time of the trade, the Reds were still in the race and were being sunk by a terrible bullpen. Krivsky took a shot & missed. No big deal. Didn’t mortgage the future by doing it.
Could he have gotten more for Kearns/Lopez? I’m sure he tried. While talented, they both had serious red flags at the time (Lopez = KO’s & Defense; Kearns = health issues)..
Can we all just take it easy on the trade now?
Boomer.
by glamboomer on Apr 23, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine
it wasn’t a bust, but that grievance was filed a year late. They had lost the pennant by then.
by enoscountry on Apr 23, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points on the kearns trade.
At the time it looked like kearns was primed to become a star; no one expected him to slump like he did in washington. It really did seem like Krivsky was giving away a good defensive corner OF slugger who was coming into his prime. And of course, Josh Hamilton could be the CF, although volquez is looking pretty good, so though that trade seemed terrible at the time, it looks OK so far.
Anyway, keppinger would be my target if I was Mo. it’s a shame he didn’t start the year out in a slump…
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
by SleepyCA on Apr 23, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not unfair to criticize the trade
Krivsky needed relief and traded two line-up regulars for Royce Clayton and no bullpen help. Sounds like a bust to me. Kearns alone could’ve been peddled for a decent relief guy. The point is he didn’t get it done with the trade chips he had available
"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Apr 24, 2008 3:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On barton
the only justification for TLR’s handling of Barton that I can think of is that TLR wants to protect the knee. I called TLR out on the thread yesterday, and from a tactical standpoint I still think that was the worst move in a series of bad moves that ended up costing a game we should have won, but if he was doing it for that reason then I can understand it from a strategic standpoint. If a guy has a bum knee, playing him 6-7 innings at a time is better than playing him 9, obviously.
Though I have to think that if that was the case he would have said so. Of course they could also be trying to protect Barton’s trade value…
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
by SleepyCA on Apr 23, 2008 1:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Can't trade Barton
He is a rule 5 pick.
by Evilfrog on Apr 23, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, you can.
the rule 5 qualifications follow him- IE he has to stay on the 25 man- but you can certainly trade him.
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
by SleepyCA on Apr 23, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about.....
if they trade him to the Indians?.. :)
by Timbo02 on Apr 23, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
from Wikipedia
I know good ol’ Wikipedia could be mistaken, and if it is, I’ll want to correct it, but here is the information on trading Rule 5 draftees, from the entry Rule 5 draft:
“Any player chosen in the Rule 5 draft may be traded to any team while under the Rule 5 restrictions, but the restrictions transfer to the new team. If the new team does not want to keep the player on its 25-man roster for the season, he must be offered back to the team of which he was a member when chosen in the draft.”
So, the Indians have little incentive to trade for Barton . . . if the Cardinals shopped him to the Indians, the Indians could simply hope that there are no other takers on him and wait for the Cardinals to want to remove him from their 25-man roster, in which case he would be returned to the Indians.
Now, if the Indians knew another team was interested, and the Indians wanted Barton back, they could trade for him. And then, I guess if the Indians decided they didn’t want him on their 25-man roster any more, they could return him to themselves. :-)
by TedSimmonsFan on Apr 23, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs Drafted Josh Hamiton in Rule 5
then they traded him to Cincy before the season last year…thank goodness…Soriano Hamilton Fukudome, scary outfield!
"Back in the day when I played, a pitcher had 3 pitches: a fastball, a curveball, a slider, a changeup and a good sinker pitch." - Mike Shannon
by nomar34 on Apr 23, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In response to yesterday's move only
My feeling is that they put in Ank to try and decide the game with one swing. If you were going to draw up a situation where you’re going to get a BP fastball, it was that one. Ank definitely has more HR power than Barton.
My comment is not intended to defend his handling the entire season, I think he should definitely be finishing the games he starts.
by birdo rojo on Apr 23, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As it turns out, didn't Ank either
kill or significantly damage every rally in which he came to the plate yesterday? Right now he’s in one of those funks where he’s not an offensive asset at all.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 23, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel & WPA
I noticed something with Rick and how he shows up in Win Probability Added. Last year, he played in 47 games in which he had some form of WPA impact (batted, stole/scored as PR, etc.). In 21 of those, he posted a score of at least +/- 0.100 (11 positive, 10 negative). This means he had a big impact on nearly half of the games he played. Compare that to Albert, who was +33/15 in 157 games; yes, Pujols’ +/ ratio was much better, but he had a much lower percentage of games where he tipped the scales significantly. I looked at a few other premier players a while back and usually the most you see one position player affect the game is around 30-35%.
This year, Rick is even more impactful. 20 games played, +4/-7. (Albert is +3/-0 this year, Izturis (the worst by WPA in ‘08) is +2/-3) I don’t know if it is a “repeatable skill”, but it is certainly interesting. It almost feels like Roy Hobbs, carrying the team for weeks at a time, then dragging it down during his low times.
That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.
by Solanus on Apr 23, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No question
that it is becoming a very strange situation. TLR doesn’t seem to want to play Barton, yet the team seems to respond when he’s in there.
by RabidBuffalo on Apr 23, 2008 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Matt Morris on the brink of being released
the Pirates are denying it, but he is likely two bad starts away from being let go.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
please fellow VEBers, I dont want to see posts about us signing him once he is cut.
Cant we agree that he is done. Kthxbai
by FunkeeC on Apr 23, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
please fellow VEBers, I dont want to see posts about us signing him once he is cut.
Cant we agree that he is done. Kthxbai
by FunkeeC on Apr 23, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course i planned that....
double post for emphasis…
by FunkeeC on Apr 23, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Jocketty, go and sign that man
when the Pirates dump him. Please!
by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 23, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only way
I can see the Cardinals signing Matty Mo is so he can retire as a Cardinal.
TSF
by TedSimmonsFan on Apr 23, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not for us but
I wonder if Matty MO ever thought about trying to become a closer. He just doesn’t have it anymore to be a starter, but he might have value in some type of set up/closer role. It might be worth a try for some team, if they weren’t having to deal with an expensive contract.
by KYCards on Apr 23, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once he is released by the Pirates
he will be available to any team for league minimum. I have to imagine some team (cough Royals cough) will need a long reliever.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SIGN MORRIS!!!!!!!!!
hehehehehe….....
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Apr 23, 2008 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Was Gabe Gross eligible to play yesterday?
The linked article describes some of the thoughts I had yesterday after the game when I heard that Gabe Gross had been traded earlier in the day.
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/stlog/2008/04/cards_blog_milwaukee_won_tuesd.php
Don’t know if this has any legs but I would think that its worth it to the Cards to take a look. Maybe the Cards can win this game in extra extra innings after all.
by indakind on Apr 23, 2008 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There is no way the Cardinals pursue this
Tony more than likely would find it beneath the club to be ‘awarded’ a victory.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doubt its Tony's call
I would think that this would fall under Mo’s responsibilities. Besides, the team deserved to win due to the horrible call at home plate.
by indakind on Apr 23, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lineups
as predicted, no Ryan. I’m going to this game. I’ll be the guy with the sign that says “Free Ryan and Barton!”
Schumaker 9
Ankiel 8
Pujols 3
Duncan 7
Glaus 5
Molina 2
Kennedy 4
Wellemyer 1
Miles 6
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 23, 2008 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Miles is not a SS
Why Miles is starting at short I have no idea. Why call Ryan up if you are going to stick a small statue at SS?
by indakind on Apr 23, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ryan
Has Ryan officially been called up???? I know this seems like a silly question, but every article I have read at stltoday and the cards website has indicated that Ryan WILL be called up or is LIKELY to be called up, but I have not seen one that indicates that he HAS been called up. Maybe I missed it though.
by cdb on Apr 23, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2:20 pm update
on post dispatch article confirming transaction as well.
by ubeddie on Apr 23, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe Ryan is still in transit?
Is he with the team right now?
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Apr 23, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
while you're at it, give skippy a handshake and an apology
I’m kidding. But if you could get me an autographed ball that would be awesome!
Kidding again..
enjoy the game.. hopefully the rain holds off. I’ve wanted to see PNC for awhile now and I’m finally planning a trip there this summer to watch the Birds. Looks like a beautiful place to watch baseball and tickets are cheap!
Bring home a W HL
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
by stltrav09 on Apr 23, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still waiting to see that fabled arm from Skippy
It boggles my minds why pitchers throw him anything down in the zone. When they do, he rakes it. If you throw it right down the middle or belt high, he couldn’t touch it with a tree trunk.
Keep throwin’ ‘em down and in NL Central.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 24, 2008 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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