Saturday, 19th April Discussion/Game Thread- Blowout Thoughts
by the red baron on Apr 19, 2008 9:05 AM EDT
Email
Print
 |
 |
| Lincecum | Piñeiro |
| 2-0, 2.25 | 0-1, 14.73 |
First off, I want to thank Lboros for covering for me on Wednesday. I greatly appreciate the helping hand, Lb. You made a very difficult time a little bit easier to bear.
Tremendous win last night by the Cardinals. The offense put together it's biggest inning of the year so far, the six run fourth, it's biggest run total at 11, and the largest margin of victory so far. All of this against one of the best young pitchers in the game today.
The real key to this game, and, in my ever so humble opinion, the key going forward, was the performance of the top of the lineup. The top two hitters last night, Skip Schumaker and Chris Duncan, respectively, combined to go 4 for 7 with three walks. Between the two of them, they got on base ahead of Albert and the middle of the lineup seven times. Duncan hit a homer and a double, driving in two. Schumaker drove in a pair as well with a two run single in the fourth that continued the inning. Even more remarkable than the run production from those two spots was the runs scored. The two of them combined to score six, count 'em, six times.
There's been a ton of talk recently about trying to find some better protection for Albert in the lineup, and most of it has focused, naturally, on the cleanup position. To me, though, the first two spots in the lineup represent the only real chance the Cardinals have to get that protection for Albert. There is no hitter in baseball that's going to force opposing pitchers to pitch to Albert. Runners on base ahead of him, though, will. The top two spots in this lineup are far more important to whether or not Albert will see any pitches to hit than the hitters behind him, in my opinion. As long as those two can continue to get on base, teams will be forced to try and get Albert out. We saw firsthand last night what sorts of results we can expect in those cases.
There is, however, a downside to the performance of those two outfielders last night, though, particularly Duncan. As long as they keep producing, it makes it much harder for me to complain that Crab Man should be getting more playing time. This puts me in a bind, as I happen to be a huge backer of Mr. Barton. It's a very trying situation, you know, whenever reality interferes with your personal preferences. Sigh...
As impressive as the offense was, I was personally more astounded by the performance of Wellemeyer. I've been a very vocal critic in the past of Welley in the rotation, but I've been mostly won over. I say mostly because I still fear he isn't able to give consistent six plus inning performances, and I worry about the burden on the pen, probably more than I really should. Last night, though, Wellemeyer turned in probably the best start of his career, and one of the two or three best starts we've seen from a Cardinal hurler this season.
In his seven innings of work, Wellemeyer gave only one run on four hits, (the run scoring hit, of course, being an infield single off of his- ahem- lower back type region area) with six strikeouts to two walks. Those last numbers, to me, represent the really important statistic to look at here.
With the addition of those numbers, Wellemeyer now has 26 strikeouts to only 9 walks, in 25 innings of work. That's almost exactly in line with his 3:1 K/BB ratio from last night's game. The knock on Wellemeyer, of course, has always been his elevated walk numbers and high pitch counts. If this is a genuine improvement, (and obviously, the sample size isn't large enough to determine a whole lot, but it is getting close to being at least significant) then suddenly Wellemeyer isn't a serviceable starter, but a potential front half of the rotation starter. I'm not sure how this has happened, and I don't know if it's sustainable, but I'm hoping.
Last night, he was about as efficient as you can possibly imagine he ever will be. He threw 107 pitches, 72 for strikes. He struck out six, got seven groundball outs, eight fly outs. Anytime you see a strike to ball ratio of better than 2:1, you have to take notice. Wellemeyer, in addition to being efficient and aggressive, was throwing gas last night. Going by the Pitchf/x data, (and I'm just getting used to using it, so bear with me if I'm not quite right) he was averaging 93.7 mph on his fastball, with a high of 95.5. For a starter, that's an incredible combination of velocity and control.
All of this, of course, really begs the question: what happens to Wellemeyer next? When Mark Mulder comes back, which should be in about three weeks, he's expected to slide into the rotation. Wainwright's rotation spot is secure, along with Looper. Kyle Lohse has obviously done nothing to pitch his way out of the rotation. Pineiro was resigned just this past offseason, to a two year deal. He signed with the Cardinals specifically because they guaranteed him a spot starting, so I imagine they would be loathe to move him to the bullpen, even on a temporary basis. So where exactly does the team go with Welley? He has better raw stuff than any pitcher on the staff outside of Adam Wainwright, (and that's a close call) and, possibly Anthony Reyes, he's striking out hitters at a rate of better than one per inning, and, most importantly, he's maintaining a K/BB ratio of almost 3:1. Yet, because of the roster numbers, he may face losing his spot in the rotation.
I know it's still a ways off, so why don't I just table the question until it actually comes up, right? Well, I ask because we've already seen one starter bumped for a returning pitcher in Brad Thompson, who now faces an additional crisis with the impending return of Russ Springer. The decision on what to do with Wellemeyer and the other starters will be here much quicker than we realise, and with the way Welley has pitched so far this year, it could end up being a very significant decision.
So, a couple of points to discuss this morning.
One, what do you do with the looming roster crunch? If all remains equal as it does today, (which I know will not happen, but still) who loses their spot? Should anyone?
Two, what have you been most surprised by this season so far? Pleasant or unpleasant, either way. My personal surprises have been the aforementioned Messrs. Wellemeyer and Schumaker. Wellemeyer has improved in the one area that always kept him back, and Skippy appears, at least to my eyes, to have become a viable major league hitter. It may still be early, but Skip has passed every test presented to him so far with flying colours, and I don't see any major weaknesses in his game to really hinder him. I freely admit, I never saw it coming. Reyes has been a pleasant surprise also, but I actually always believed in him. The other two, not so much.
Three, in last night's overflow thread, there was a bit of discussion of what theme song would best embody the glory that is the Cardinals' mulletted backup catcher, Jason LaRue. There were many suggestions, with Def Leppard receiving some shoutouts, (or should that be shouts out? I'm not very good with the modern vernacular...) Ratt's "Round and Round" coming up, and Styx getting some love. I want you to give me LaRue's perfect theme song, and any song you desperately want to see used by a player, be it a batter or a reliever. For LaRue, I nominate Foreigner's "Dirty White Boy" or, even better, pretty much anything from the Red Rocker, St. Louis favourite Sammy Hagar. I think something from the Hagar catalogue would be particularly good; he's a beloved icon here in the Lou, especially among those who sport facial hair of a similar bent to LaRue's own, he's already associated with red, so there's a nice Cardinal tie in... I think it's a match made in heaven. What do you guys think?
One last thing: also from the overflow last night, Mr. Redbird referred to Troy Glaus as "Santa Glaus." I don't know if this is the first time he's been called as such here; it's the first I've noticed. Anyhow, I vote that we make Santa Glaus the official VEB nickname for Troy. I think maybe a really great nickname is just what he needs to get going. What say you, denizens of El Vivi Birders?
That's all I got. It was too good of a game to really complain much, so let's just bask a little bit. Reality will kick in soon enough, right about the time Tim Lincecum goes into that ridiculous windup of his and blows the first fastball past our leadoff hitter. Good luck, boys. You're probably going to need it.
Later, everybody.
463 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Nicknames
I’m all for Santa Glaus. I’m also all for adding (in the recommended fanposts section) a list of all the current Cardinals aside their nicknames and all of the former Cardinals of recent years’ nicknames into one large fanpost for those of us who have a short memory span at times and love to reminisce.
Who gets bumped from the rotation?
I vote Looper, move Thompson down to Memphis and put him in their rotation. Looper can be the long man in the pen or spot starter. I know he has expressed his distaste for moving back to the pen, but he has got to be the odd man out. Maybe he can be traded, but I would be cautious at this point to trade Looper, Reyes, or Thompson, with the injury riddled pasts of our “Calvary” it’s not a guaranty that once they come off the DL they won’t go right back on. See every return by Mulder so far, and Carpenter’s rehab assignment last season. There is no problem with having too much servicable starting pitching.
I'm looking for the next Bobby Bonilla?
No guarantees on Mulder, Pineiro, Clement, Carp
as Silent Bob points out in another post—well, he doesn’t include Pineiro but you get my point.
I’m all for a “wait-n-see” approach. Wait and see if Looper and Welly can continue their fast starts. Wait and see if our three rehab pitchers regain their velocity and control, and the ability to pitch “pain free.” There’s no compelling reason to rush the four hurlers listed above. We’re in first and their replacements are doing the job.
You can’t have too much pitching.
Yeah......I'm with you.
No guarantees that the injured starters will come back anywhere close to their past. I’m kind of thinking Clement is probably done, and Mulder will most likely never come close to his great days in Oakland. And if they pick up his option, that’s a lot of money.
Pineiro never excited me, and I’m not that thrilled with that signing. Maybe if he gets going good he’s the one that should be traded-along with Reyes. The folks that like him in the organization are not the guys who put the line up together, and the Braves look to be in need of someone just like Anthony RIGHT NOW.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
The Braves are looking for pitching?
I wonder if they have anyone we would want?
Please keep on the Reyes stump, even if you do offend 1,347,449 VEBers every time.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Apr 19, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, you are funny....and I can't seem to stop myself. Well, at least I have cut back.
The Braves have GOT to be looking for pitching…...Glavine is on the DL, Hampton, I know, shocking, but he’s on the DL again. Smoltz is pitching with a knot in his shoulder (quite well, I might add), James has not recovered well from his shoulder woes-he starts today, so we’ll see. Hudson is going to be alright, but Juerjjens is in his first year starting and he’ll go through the ups and downs they all do in the first year.
I am absolutely sure the Braves have something he want on the farm, even after cashing out last year. It just won’t be a pitcher.
And I would have one question for Mr. LaRussa. If Brendan Ryan has to earn his roster spot back, (he’s implied that he’s not going toget it just because he’s healthy enough) then why not the same standard for Mulder, Clement, and yes, even Pineiro?
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
not to mention their BP is in shambles w ith Moylan and Soriano injured.
daydream...i fell asleep amid the flowers
Oh, and I wanted to add my son, the Braves fan, wants them to acquire Reyes
for the simple fact that they will have 2 Reyes’ a righty and a lefty-with Anthony being the boy and Jo-Jo the girl. He really wants that to happen so he can sit there and laugh to himself when he watches the Braves…..
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
The Braves
do look like good trading partners. Of course, we all know that Lillibridge would be a great target, and they have some nice depth in most spots overall.
The Mets look like a possible fit for a deal, but their cupboard is pretty bare following the Santana Selloff; I’m still sure we could find something of value.
The Giants seem to be looking for a left handed hitting first basemen. I wonder if there could be a fit there?
The Yankees need pitching, and they have a nicely stocked system at the moment.
I think the Angels could be a possible target, as they seem to be having their own troubles with the injury bug…
I think the Rangers might be a decent partner, too. I’m not totally sure, but they seem to have some pitching, specifically relief pitching, issues to contend with.
I’m sure there are others, but those are the ones that really jump out at me.
All your failures are just training grounds.
by the red baron on Apr 19, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I know that the Pirates are in the Central, but 3 of their 5 starter are leftys.....
Maybe they would part with one of them for one of our extra rightys? Too bad the Cards probably won’t consider trading with the Cubs. They don’t seem to be to thrilled with their lefty starters Marshall and Veal, (in the minors)....there’s a straight up trade right there….
The Rangers have Milton Bradley DH’ing right now…..he should be ready to take the outfield by June. I know our outfielders have done well so far, but if the Rangers would part with Bradley, I’d give them a pitcher or three…....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Bradley
I’ve got to disagree with you here – OF is the last position that we need to upgrade. As you said, the OF’s we have are doing well and we are already crowded at the big league level and at AAA. Counting Rasmus and Mather (who are probably both ready to see some action with the big club this year at some point) we’ve got seven guys for three spots – we should be dealing from that depth to add to areas of weakness (like middle infield).
You have a point.....but Mr. Bradley is an elite player when healthy.
He bats switch and he does it all. I know infield is a more pressing need, but I would love to see him here, even if he’s a little crazy…...he does go all out when he’s playing, so I don’t care about the crazy part…...
Go see if Beane will let go of Ellis…..my bet is if Crosby is healthy for a few months, he’s on the block, but I’d rather have Ellis.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
I gotta agree
Milton can carry a lineup when he is hot(and healthy)!
The way Beane has been emptying his team of everything I think you HAVE to see if Ellis or Crosby are on the block either one of those I would be ecstatic to acquire!! either one of those would be a huge upgrade for our MIF.
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
Yes, agreed and...Starters should be starting based on merit.
I think it’s crazy to take Looper or Welley out of the rotation. What are the realistic chances that Mulder pitches (even one game) like Welley has been pitching? I think Mulder, Pineiro and ect. should be in the Bullpen until they prove their merit…all history and contracts aside, the starters we have now are performing. They’ve earned it. Let them keep it until they don’t. As far Thompson being set down…WHY? He’s looked good (yes a comments sans the stats) IMHO. I’m not so sure the grass is greener over in MulderPineiroClementCarpenterVILLE.
mattnj
Yes, but...
you have to make room for those guys somehow. You say let the current pitchers hold on until they prove they shouldn’t be there. The problem, though, then becomes, “okay, where do I stash all of these pitchers coming back from injuries?”
You can’t send these guys to the minors; they’re not optionable players. You have to find someplace to put them, or stick them back on the DL. You can’t trade a player on the disabled list, and you can’t showcase them enough to trade them if they aren’t pitching.
So I ask: Where are you going to stick all of these pitchers?
All your failures are just training grounds.
by the red baron on Apr 19, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Its a nice problem to have...
What do you think? I can’t bare the thought of Mulder nocking any of these guys out of the rotation right now.
mattnj
Yeah but....
Mulder has All-star potential you have to give him a shot.. you cannot say Welly or Thompson or Looper have more potential then Mulder…
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
Yeah, but I have a feeling it's "had" all star potential. I'm not convinced he'll ever be close to what he was.
I’d be delighted to be proved wrong—Mulder seems like a decent fellow, and we have no lefthanders in the rotation. Most pitchers just don’t come back from such serious injuries.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Yeah I agree
I am not sure if he can ever get back to all star form either BUT because of his track record you have to give him the shot to regain his previous form. You know as well as I do with a healthy sharp Mulder we are a WAY better team so gotta give him his chance.
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
Then let him show his potential
during his rehab stint. He also has the “potential” to throw 85-mph major league batting practice. I want that “potential” explored in the minors rather than the majors as well.
Mulder should not finish that rehab stint and come off the DL any more than five minutes sooner than the rules require it. It is imperative that the team understand exactly what he’s still good for before doing anything committal. If he really does come back as a top starter, then move Pineiro to the pen for now; he’ll get chances to start later, when one of the current starters falters or gets hurt (and they will, overachieving or not). If not, a pen slot is right, with an attempt to sneak Villone through waivers.
by StanTheManFan on Apr 19, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Rehab stints
Dont always show you what your gonna get…. we wont know for sure until he faces actual Major League hitters in a real game. But I agree dont take him out of rehab until the last possible second.
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
Well(e)...
If Col. Wellemeyer continues to pitch like he did last night, one would think it will be virtually impossible to remove him from the rotation. I think it’s more likely somebody gets hurt or tagged a bunch (see Piniero) and Welle stays both on merit and on need.
I also think Mulder might be best served as a lefty arm out of the pen, as was suggested by another poster a few days ago. If he’s throwing 87-88 in his starts, he might be able to throw 90-92 as a reliever. It solves two problems and might make him somewhat useful.
by mattisnotfrench on Apr 19, 2008 9:41 AM EDT reply actions
Glausage with Cheese?
Oh, yum…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
I had and have no problem
with the Cards making room for Pineiro by dropping Thompson, who I still think is really just a replacement level guy, from the rotation. Pineiro has the chance to be more than that.
As for Wellemeyer, if he continues to pitch like this, I don’t see how the Cards can drop him from the rotation for Mulder. As others have discussed, trading Mulder (or Lohse, Looper, or Pineiro) may well be something the Cardinals are actively looking at between now and early May.
If they can’t make a trade, then I think the Cards have to consider a 6 man rotation or a piggy-back rotation for one or two of the starting spots. Others have discussed how LaRussa does not trust the pen and key members like Mcclellan and Franklin are getting worn down. If Pineiro and Mulder are still working back to full strength then maybe a piggy-back with those two might make sense.
Yes but what do they have
to offer us? I doubt they would give up Cano for any of our pitchers. Is there some great prospect at AAA? You were’nt thinking Morgan Ensberg, right?
mattnj
Troy Glaus
Rally Killer.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 19, 2008 10:47 AM EDT reply actions
Hang in there, Hardcore...
Glaus will quit pulling his head off the ball sooner rather than later; once he does, he could wind up carrying the offense for a time.
Duncan and Schumaker both throw righty… wonder if either of them could play 3B in a pinch? (Ludwick hits right, but throws left; an unusual combination, innit?)
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Apr 19, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with
gocards62… these “problems” tend to solve themselves; somebody will be a more obvious choice to get “the boot” by the time Mulder is actually ready to pitch! It wouldn’t surprise me to see the Cardinals use most of their 30-day window to allow Mulder to make more than one start for Memphis.
The current starters have been over-the-top good; heck, a rotation of Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax and Bob Feller in their primes wouldn’t be able to sustain the Cards’ stats through 16 starts (not counting Piñeiro’s)... a 2.55 ERA, with a 1.13 WHIP and a 2.64-to-1 strikeout to walk ratio! Even with Piñeiro’s stinker, the starters have a 2.98 ERA and a 1.19 WHIP!
The Gang Of Five in the outfield, on the other hand, might be pretty solid offensively! Part of the projection difficulties with them is the small MLB sample size; they don’t have a “proven” track record, so there’s more guesswork involved. However, I like their collective approach at the plate thus far… all have shown a willingness to take walks, and they’re (largely) laying off pitches out of the strike zone.
Let’s just ride this horse as long as we can, and enjoy the ride along the way!
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
Rotation Issue
I think the verdict is still out on Pineiro. As some have suggested, maybe he’s still hurt. We should find out more with today’s start.
My biggest surprise of the season is definitely Wellemeyer. He showed some flashes early in his career with the Cubs but his control was always too much of an issue. Sometimes one minor adjustment can improve location and maybe a little bit of Coach Dunc’s magic was all he needed. If he can keep up the solid K/BB ratio, he’s gonna keep putting up good results.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
This is what TLR does well
He uses April to figure out the best team.
I guess Thompson gets sent down for springer…then I guess dropping Villone out and using Mulder in the pen for now just makes too much sense to do?
Put Mulder in the pen whe he comes back...
and let him build up arm strength.
daydream...i fell asleep amid the flowers
I agree. There’s already talk of having Carp come back in the pen when he’s ready so he can be contributing but not strained. I think this is the way the handled Morris when he came back from surgery? Do the same with Mulder, Clement. Mulder’s not gonna come back and be the pitcher he was in Oakland, even though that’s what everyone wants from him. Might as well take some pressure off of him.
I say Mulder goes pen, bum Thompson down to AAA, solely for that homerun he gave up to Fielder.
by voltronchris on Apr 19, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Please tell me that you don't really mean that Thompson should be sent down just for giving up
a homer to Fielder. After watching Pineiro in San Francisco look pretty bad, they ought to consider that he needs to go for a few more rehab starts….which, if he looks the same today, I hope they do.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
I agree...
that Pineiro came back too soon. His “good” rehab starts weren’t all that great, IMO. Can he be sent back for more? If so, send him back, give Thompson more chances to show how valuable he is.
Otherwise, I just feel like at this point, Thompson should be the victim of the number crunch. If Wellemeyer keeps up with his INSANE strikeout ratio (seriously, for a man who walked as many as he did last year, did ANYONE see this coming?), and if he can consistently go 6-7 innings, how do you push him out at this point?
K-Mac and A-Rey have made this too damn complicated by throwing wicked stuff out there. I guess it’s a good thing to complain about at this point!
by voltronchris on Apr 19, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
trade pineiro and kennedy/iz2...
...for a good middle infielder. I don’t know what the market is like but pineiro is not pitching that well, imo, and the middle infield sucks. I’m really not counting on Clement or Mulder to do much this year though so I think our depth of pitchers is a good thing.
Mulder and Carp
in the bullpen, that seems logical. To bad it’s not going to happen. Per the Post-Dispatch.
Though it might shorten the length of his rehab from elbow surgery, the Cardinals are not considering bringing Carpenter back first as a reliever so he can build toward a late-season return to the rotation.Manager Tony La Russa dismissed that same notion for Mark Mulder, who will make his second rehab start Sunday
Tony shot that idea down real quick. But there is a chance he’ll change his mind right? That happens once a decade or so right?
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Apr 19, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm distressed to read that.
I have high hopes for Carpenter-next year. He is signed to a long term contract, and he has had a significant amount of serious injuries. I am opposed to rushing him and overworking him because he is a valuable asset and I fear that’s just what Mr. LaRussa will do.
I think Tony has admitted to being wrong about something once in the last 30 years. It only changes if Carpenter’s health is in question….IMO
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Oh, Tony
That’s really sad. Tony makes some BIZARRE choices, but a lot of them have paid off, so I guess I’ll just have to roll with them…
by voltronchris on Apr 19, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember ... he's the 'counter-intuitive' thinker ...
but I trust him …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
The Obvious Answer
With Lohse, Welly, Loop and Reyes all pitching better than expected, the Cards desperately need to trade one or more of these parts (or Pineiro) for middle infield help. Only issue is timing. Would like to know that Mulder, Clement or Carp will be able to come up and take their spot and of course we need some other teams to suffer either SP injuries or to have a rotation or two underperform.
My choice is to let Welly go if we can get a serious 2B or SS upgrade—might also let Loop go or Franklin if some package can net us an all-star 2B.
Didn’t we get Edmunds for Bottenfeld—isn’t Welly the same kind of flash in the pan?
The top 2 spots in the order
are absolutely the keys to getting Albert pitches to hit and RBI opportunities. Few hitters scare opposing pitchers and managers enough to slide into that 4 spot and make Albert get pitches to hit. Skip and Dunc, or whoever, are going to have to get on base a lot.
As for Jason LaRue—I see something more along the lines of Molly Hatchet . How about “Flirtin’ with Disaster” by Molly Hatchet?
Jason LaRue looks Southern Rock to me ...
Like someone else said sometime back … he looks like he should be working on my truck … how about Lynyrd Skynyrd … ‘They Call Me the Breeze’ ... the Breeze reminds me of all the times he strikes out …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking more of the Drive By Truckers.....
Perhaps ‘Where The Devil Won’t Go’
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
What I'm most suprised by
Is were in FIRST PLACE!!!!! Even if it doesn’t hold it’s nice to say.
The national media is finally taking notice. From Fox Sports Tracy Ringolsby.
St. Louis is the team to beware. Remember, the Cardinals are getting by with their top three starters on the disabled list. But they are expecting to eventually get Chris Carpenter, Mark Mulder and Matt Clement on the active roster. And they do have that late-inning weapon, Jason Isringhausen, along with manager Tony La Russa, who has never met a challenge he hasn’t welcomed.
That and Tony is just ripping off Whiteys ideas.
La Russa isn’t afraid to go against the grain with moves like hitting his pitcher eighth, but it was Whitey Herzog with Kansas City who was the first to try a double-leadoff hitter approach, although he did it with a lineup that included a DH. Herzog would hit Freddie Patek at the bottom of the order — didn’t like his on-base percentage — and then move George Brett and Hal McRae up in the order so they’d both get up in the first inning, and after their first at-bat, they were both hitting behind Frank White, who hit eighth, and Patek, who hit ninth.
I can see it now, first inter-league game El Hombre in the two hole.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Apr 19, 2008 11:35 AM EDT reply actions
Pineiro
I know we just signed him to a 2 year deal but he has to be the one to go if he doesn’t show us a very good reason to keep him in. I think people have such a positive view of this guy because he was one of the only pitchers last year to throw some quality games and eat up some innings. He was brought in to fill a gaping hole in the rotation, and to be honest, its not there anymore. I don’t think his stuff is good enough to hang in this rotation anymore.
I do think he should still get a few more starts as kind of like an audition before Mulder returns, but I’d rather see him out of rotation than Welley or Looper.
"And that's a winner. A World Series winner for the Cardinals."
Welly and Giants
Welly’s done great – but his last 2 starts have been against the Giants. A team, as Larry pointed out yesterday, ESPN recently wondered is the worse offensively ever.
I’m not saying he can’t keep this up, but it’s early and it will probably be at least 2 weeks until they think of bringing up Mulder. So I’d hold off on the magic 8 ball. That said, contracts foretell Looper will be the one traded.
A modest proposal for Wellemeyer
Just running through our rotation contracts for next year. We have Carp, Waino, and Piniero for sure. We have options on Mulder and Clement (which we may or may not exercise, depending on their health and effectiveness). On the other hand, Looper and Lohse will almost certainly look to cash in somewhere.
I think we should offer Wellemeyer a contract extension now, something along the lines of $1.25-1.5M with incentives that would up the contract around $4M if he wins 10+ games and goes over 100 innings. Maybe a team option for 2010.
This way, we are insured against a vast rise in his value if he pitches really well. Worst case scenario, we pay Aaron Miles money for a middle reliever (which we will probably need next year, regardless). Best case scenario, we get a competent starter for great money.
He seems like the only one in the rotation who would bite this early on that kind of contract.
I would just say, lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Really. It's a small sample size
he’s looked fantastic, but I don’t think it’s necessary at this point. A wait and see approach would be prudent for the team and the player…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
true
But a reasonable contract might increase his trade value if he continues to look good for the next month or two.
Maybe. But when you are dealing with pitchers, you are dealing with the very real risk of injury.
Then you pay ‘em to not pitch for you too. So I still think it would be prudent to wait.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
can't do "games won"
but you could offer bonuses for “innings pitched” or “games started”.
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
Great idea
While there is definite risk – if he’d sign a contract like the one you described I’d be all about it. Worst case is you throw away $1-2M which isn’t going to do much to the team either way. Hey – if it’s burnt money it might encourage the use of a prospect rather than signing someone off the recycle bin!
Batting music
I still stand by “The Stroke” by Billy Squier for LaRue
For any or all of Miles, Kennedy, Izturis, I propose “I Wish” by Skee-Lo (“I wish I was a little bit taller, I wish I was a baller…”)
Of course, the theme music from The Natural for Ankiel
“She Blinded Me with Science” by Thomas Dolby for Barton (because he’s an aerospace engineer? Trying too hard?)
I’m running low on ideas right now, slept terribly last night, anyone got any better ideas?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
It would be unwise to hurry and trade
The no doubt teams Tigers, Yankees, Sox, and Mets have all had their struggles; and the perceived cellar dwellers have been suprising. I think we should wait to make a trade until these teams have a better idea of whether or not they will be contenders. Also as pointed out by The Duke, teams need to have some injuries and bad performers before they get anxious to trade. I say wait till someone gets desparate.
I'm looking for the next Bobby Bonilla?
Out of Lohse, Looper, Wellemeyer and Thompson...
Doesn’t Lohse have the greatest trade value right now? Couldn’t we get a great 2B for him (meaning above league average…)?
mattnj
Now who has a second baseman they would part with?
I want Brandon Phillips or Chase Utley…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Oh Yeh Chase Utley...
Don’t we all want to see Chase Utley in a Cardinal Uniform?...maybe if we trade half the team away…
mattnj
Oh, I know......the Phillies would not do that deal. But I can dream.....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Why do we need to trade our best pitcher?
If a team is pitching-starved enough, wouldn’t they take just about whatever they can get, kind of like when we traded for Jeff Weaver or Joel Pineiro? As long as we’re contending, there’s no way we should be considering trading Wellemeyer or Lohse (at least the way they’re pitching now). I’d say Looper would be the best option for a trade, because we probably couldn’t talk a team into taking Pineiro, Clement, or Mulder off our hands without giving them much of a shot. Do you think we could unload Brad Thompson for a decent prospect?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
agreed
No need to trade any of these pitchers. You can’t ever have enough. I’m totally shocked that people are suggesting trading Welley or Lohse.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Many of these trade proposals
are extremely good ones if (when?) the Cards were to fall out of contention. If this very early run of great success holds when the schedule gets significantly tougher (the latter half of June and most of July could get pretty challenging), then you say, “dang, looks like everyone was wrong about this team”, and you take it as far as you can.
If, however, the Cards great run of success is unsustainable, then the team becomes dealers, and the surplus of pitching that is currently creating a nice (but difficult) problem becomes incredibly advantageous.
Nice thread today...
I agree that the best way to force pitchers to pitch to El Hombre is to clog up the base paths. Doesn’t hurt though to have a viable threat in the 4 hole.
I love the nickname Santa Glaus. I hope he will be coming ot town soon with presents for all the little cardsfans. By presents I mean homeruns and rbis.
On the Colonel I think if he continues his dominance the next 2 to three starts you slow Mulder down and keep him on rehab assignment and try to work up a trade to clear some room.
Also in case anyone has forgotten we onlyl have 83 more wins to go.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
The Tunes
For LaRue: “The Ace of Spades” by Motörhead.
Other Random Cards’ songs
Izzy: “Should I Stay or Should I Go?” by The Clash
Rico Washington: Anything from Bull Durham
Brian Barton: “Put Me In Coach” by John Fogerty
Kyle McClellan: “St. Louie” by Nelly
by Colonel Wellemeyer on Apr 19, 2008 12:03 PM EDT reply actions
Tea Leaves
If you ask me the tea leaves read that a pitcher (Thompson/Loop/Reyes) and an outfielder (Schu or Dunc) will be packaged for a middle infielder. Teams that have those needs: Atlanta, Philadelphia, Padres, San Fran, Mariners, Tampa Bay.
I'm curious
any names in particular?
I think that plan sounds fine and dandy but I think management (La Duncan and Moz) want to stick it out with AK and Izturis.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
Because I like Duncan and Reyes, I hope it's not San Francisco. They look to be cellar
dwellers for now and well into the future. They would be a good fit for everyone you list, except I don’t see Tampa Bay as particularly needing their services.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Names
Philly – Adrian Cardenas 2B – blocked by Utley
ATL – Brent Lillibridge and any of Locke/Hanson/Rohrbough/Reyes (SPs)
Padres – Chase Headley or Kevin Kouzmanoff – could we either away?
San Francisco – Nick Noonan, Tim Alderson, Madison Bumgarner
Mariners – Not sure who they even have anymore, Brandon Morrow? Matt tuiasosopo? Tony Butler?
TB – I don’t know what we have that they’d need, beyond Jason Isringhausen or MR help. Anthony Reyes for Ben Zobrist? Would have made sense before the Izturis pickup.
Say we do trade for a middle infielder
something like a pitcher (Thompson/Looper/Franklin/Reyes) and a position player (Schumaker, Duncan) for a MI for example…
Ok so that means AK is now the backup 2nd basemen/utility player.
That means Brendan Ryan is pretty much useless on this team right? Don’t get me wrong, he’s my 2nd favorite player behind Skippy but it just doesn’t really make sense to keep him if AK is already the backup. Therefore, why not throw him in the package in an attempt to get something even better.
Looper/Duncan/Ryan gives a team: young talent, power, speed, and a “solid” starting pitcher (or an innings eater out of the pen.. however you view Loop).
I’d think that would bring a good return.. thoughts?
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
Adam Kennedy is a sunk cost. Izturis is a sunk cost. Ryan is going to be evaluated by things
other than his playing ability. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think Ryan is ever going to be a star, but I do think he brings some useful talent to the table. I’m thinking it’s possible that Ryan and Reyes might end up pawns in Mr. Mozeliak’s plan to take control of the roster. There may be a shouting match or two before any moves are made. The Reds GM found Brandon Phillips buried and abandoned in the Indians organization…..if we could find a player like him that would be fantastic.
Or maybe we might just promote Hoffpauir and Ryan and play them the rest of the season…..see what we’ve got. They won’t be worse than what we have, would they? I’d like to know.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Sorry. I'm just not impressed with the way Izturis handles the bat.
If we had better hitters for the bottom of the lineup it wouldn’t be a problem. Right now we don’t.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Im all for upgrading the shortspot position
I just think so far it looks like we got what we paid for. So at this point I think we are arguing over the meaing of “sunk cost”.
I also think that when Ryan comes up he will be slowly moved into the starting postion. Making spot starts for a few weeks.
Izturis isnt a good hitter
We knew this before we signed him..so I dont think its a sunk cost at all he is playing awesome defense and that is why we signed him.
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
+1 ... On Hoffpauir ...
He seems to be the real deal … I think he’s the way go for 2B … I like Ryan at SS also … too bad Tony resents him …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Lineups are up
however IIRC, a specific poster has listed the lineups the past two games and we’ve won. Just to play it safe, I won’t post the lineups.
However, there’s an interesting change today that I’m sure will have several VEB members up in arms.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
yeah...
Kennedy 6th? Better hope the top of the order does what it did yesterday, ‘cause it’s dead from there down.
Correction
5TH. FREAKING 5th. We’ve got four hitters today, folks.
AK is actually 5th
But I think the move makes sense. Glaus is struggling up there… why put him out there against a dominate pitcher like Lincecum?
However, I think the lineup would be better if Yadi and AK’s spots were switched.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
Agreed
I hope they prove me wrong, but looks like we could have a bunch of guys stranded on base today.
Here's to long at bats
and getting to the Giants bullpen early!
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
What about Hanley Ramirez?
I think Florida has shown repeatedly that they’ll trade away their best talent.
Wow
that move would make us instant WS contenders.
But we’d have to fork over some serious talent: Duncan, Reyes, Brian Anderson, and a minor league pitcher?
It’s not gonna happen..
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
Not Enough
It would take more than that to get Hanley Ramirez. We’d have to compete with other talent-rich organizations as well. If I we’re them my discussions would start and end with Colby Rasmus, because that’s the kind of talent they would get in return.
"because at the end of the day they still are the Chicago Cubs"
by rockin the red on Apr 19, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
They'd ask for Rasmus, Garcia, and Mather too.
I’d skip that one. We don’t really have enough on the farm to let that many guys go on one player.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
It would take Rasmus, Garcia, Anderson, Duncan and more probably
daydream...i fell asleep amid the flowers
Sean Rodriguez
I talk about some middle infield options in my post here, but Sean Rodriguez, Triple-A shortstop for the Angels, is one guy I would love for us to go after. He would be an upgrade in the long-term but would also be a improvement now as well; compare his .352 EqA to Izturis (.238) and Kennedy (.270). The Angels have Erick Aybar at shortstop and need bullpen help. Sounds like a good starting point for discussions to me.
So far Rodriguez is batting .333/.464/.711 with 4 home runs and 11 RBIs in 45 ABs at Triple-A Salt Lake.
"because at the end of the day they still are the Chicago Cubs"
by rockin the red on Apr 19, 2008 12:28 PM EDT reply actions
Um, aren't the batting averages significantly skewed in Salt Lake?
Careful here.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Because
of altitude?
"The only thing you know about pitching is that you can't hit it." Bob Gibson to Tim McCarver
by player2bnamedl8r on Apr 19, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
2007 Minor League Park Multipliers
Wouldn’t say it’s enough to discount his work this year and past years. Take a look for yourself here. Salt Lake actually deflates home runs, as does Arkansas, the Double-A affiliate.
"because at the end of the day they still are the Chicago Cubs"
by rockin the red on Apr 19, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you for that. I just remember reading something about it......
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Sean Rodriguez
Numbers pretty inflated in that LAA farm system, and the scouting report says he profiles as a UT player. Sure, he could still be an upgrade over Miles or Izturis, but I don’t see it as enough of an upgrade to justify a deal. Plus, it doesn;t sound like Rodrguez is the kind of youngster Tony would have a lot of patience for – he sounds a bit raw at both the plate and in the field.
The Texas Rangers have a lot of good young talent up the middle and in the rotation, though it’s all pretty far away. Seems like they are always on the lookout for 1b/OF types, as well as SP.
It shouldnt be called Bernie`s Bits
It should be called Bernie`s Bacon lol.
Sorry cant resist a jab at Bernie.
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
Washington at 3rd again?
According to the lineup on Yahoo, Washington is at 3rd again. Is he going to be Pineiro’s regular 3rd baseman? Does Pinerio really need a handicap as he tries to get back into the rotation?
Pinero
I wouldn’t say Washington is Pinero’s handicap. Lincecum is.
by Colonel Wellemeyer on Apr 19, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Lineups per gameday
Skippy 9
Dunc 7
Albert 3
Ank 8
Kennedy 4
Molina 2
Rico 5
Jo-el 1
Izturis 6
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
Lets just hope
The top of the lineup rakes again today!
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
yikes
kennedy, molina, uncle rico. joel, izturis
muderer’s row right there.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully this is Unlce Rico's last look before getting sent back down to AAA
daydream...i fell asleep amid the flowers
Pineiro
Better get his crap together today otherwise he might not be in the rotation long….
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
well going up against tim lincecum your first two starts back isn't really fair.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
We're not asking him to go 3 for 4 at the plate
He’s going up against one of the weakest lineups in the league.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
Well, Lincecum sometimes has an off day........
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Wow
Dan ‘n Al: actually saying something useful
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
Funny thing is
I wasnt even listening to them lol….
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
He needed to go grab a Bud Light lol
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
Jo-el has some crappy luck
same thing happened last time vs the giants when he pitched. Bloop hit after bloop hit.
daydream...i fell asleep amid the flowers
If Rico is going to play 3rd
I would like to see Ludwick in the lineup instead of Skip. Iz2 or AK could lead off and Ludwick could bat 5th
I'm looking for the next Bobby Bonilla?
He's getting hit
but they’re weak hits, and it looks like he’s hitting his spots. I wish I could put silverlight on rewind.
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
The hits are weak
But he’s having a hard time getting the corners
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It looks like he's nibbling too
keeping everything on the outside. His breaking stuff doesn’t look particularly sharp yet but that could improve over the course of the game.
weak hit, but
all three batters have all squared the ball to CF. Jo-el isn’t fooling them at all (yet at least).
you're nuts if you think Castillo wasn't fooled
he lunged at it and just got a completely lucky drop shot in front of Ankiel
daydream...i fell asleep amid the flowers
And that 2-1 pitch was a gift from the umpire
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
Whoa.. nice play Albert
I can’t believe he stayed on the bag.. 6-4-3
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 1:22 PM EDT reply actions
It would be nice if the birds could put a mark on the board in the 1st
Give Pinero a little more confidence that he doesn’t have to be so fine and throw his pitches for strikes
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 1:23 PM EDT reply actions
8 pitch inning
ugh
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
Guys, we've got to wear this turkey down
4-5 pitch AB’s at least, please.
by '54 Cardinal Fan on Apr 19, 2008 1:27 PM EDT reply actions
That was a nifty play by uncle rico
Made that look easy
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 1:32 PM EDT reply actions
Did he get the start today
because he’s off to Memphis tomorrow?
by StanTheManFan on Apr 19, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he got that start
Because Glaus is trying to hit balls in the dirt for homeruns
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice beginning for Pineiro ...
keep it up, dude … and keep that ERA lowering …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, Rick,
let’s take this guy for oh, 8-10 pitches.
Don’t strain yourself.
by '54 Cardinal Fan on Apr 19, 2008 1:32 PM EDT reply actions
These first pitch hacks are going to drive me insane...
make the kid throw pitches or else he’ll be throwing a complete game.
daydream...i fell asleep amid the flowers
LET'S SEE NOW,
4 pitches - single
2 pitches - out
1 pitch - DP
5 pitches - out
3 pitches - single
1 pitch - DP
Darn, I thought I had a point to make.
by '54 Cardinal Fan on Apr 19, 2008 1:39 PM EDT reply actions
MI
how hard would it be to get a guy like Dan Uggla? Someone mentioned Hanley earlier, there is no way they trade him, so what about Uggla?
I'm looking for the next Bobby Bonilla?
Bocock's "hit" up the middle was the exact same thing Rick hit
But his goes through the infield… Man oh man. That’s aggravating.
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 1:40 PM EDT reply actions
I loved the litlle "doh-digh-doh"
our SS and 2B made on that single
by '54 Cardinal Fan on Apr 19, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
it's hard to like anyone named
Bocock
Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle."
Nice slider, Jo-el
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
and nice hanger to follow it up
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
and by nice, I mean
sigh
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
Ump's not giving him the inside corner at all...
and man, i’m scared to see what will happen when Jo-el faces a real major league lineup
daydream...i fell asleep amid the flowers
He's on the easy road to a complete game shutout
So, in a way, doesn’t really matter how many runs Pinero give up.. If the birds can’t score, it’s moot.
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
The Baron is Walkman Fan
I dig them too. Wake Up is a powerhouse of a song off that album.
And yeah, I’m cool with Santa Glaus. Can I also suggest we refer to Ryan Ludwick as our “Luddy Buddy”?
I assume you're referring to my new avatar...
and it’s true; I am a huge Walkmen fan. However, in this particular case, I’m actually more a fan of Lewis Hines, the photographer who took the shot in question. It also happens to be a picture of newsies taken right here in St. Louis, so it seemed to be just about perfect to me.
Anyone who has any interest in photography at all, please Google Lewis Hines’s name. He was one of the, in not the, greatest photographers of American life in the early part of the 20th century. If you don’t know who he was, you’re really missing out on some of the most perfect images ever captured on film.
The Walkmen are awesome, though. Check them out too, while you’re taking my recommendations.
All your failures are just training grounds.
by the red baron on Apr 20, 2008 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
anyone else think this game might be over?
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 1:52 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe.........
Get to their bullpen SOMEHOW!
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
1-0 in the fourth?
Just need to get the bat on the ball, or get to their bullpen. You can get a string of bloop doubles against anyone
shit. Rowand hits a hr
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
Anybody want to guess how long before Mr. Lincecum is the best pitcher in the league?
All he has to do is make some modest gains in control…..damn he looks good today…..lets see if he keeps it up.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
i think he's already made strides to accomplish that this year
it’s a short list already.
1. peavy
2. maybe a healthy carp
3. maybe santana
4. maybe zambrano
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Zambrano....he has drastically cut his walk rate.
Yikes! Is he finally going to go from being very good to great? It was the one area of his game that needed drastic improvement. And he’s still out there with that eff-u attitude, sorry, but I wish he was a Cardinal. I love the durability and the fire…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
We beat up Cain
We can beat up Timmy!
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
This is our inning!
Skippy, Dunc, Jose!
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
five more bloops and we're in business.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 1:58 PM EDT reply actions
Or if Dunc gets on for Albert
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
see!
off to a good start! go duncan!!!!!!!
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
Skip is on fire ...
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
Lincecum has gorgeous mechanics
can’t help but comment. We could got atleast this level of performance out of “puppy kicker” today that we are getting of of Piniero.
mattnj
couldn't agree more
I love his windup / delivery, he just “looks” like a pitcher
daydream...i fell asleep amid the flowers
be thankful...
he was drafted in the 48th round in 2003 by the Cubs but didn’t sign with them. Dodged a huge bullet there
daydream...i fell asleep amid the flowers
Lincecum is lucky
He’s lucky that he missed playing for Dusty (for the Giants or the Cubs) or he would have been driven into the ground.
by Colonel Wellemeyer on Apr 19, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
9
teams passed on him. He was the 10th overall pick of 2006.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Apr 19, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
All right, Albert
Time to bring the noize
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
balk
Lincecum made a motion to the plate
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
Yeah, and strike two looked like the type of pitch he usually pounds
nice off-speed thing over the middle of the plate
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
All right ricky
just need a popup
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
Ankiel has really slowed down since his hot start
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
can't come away with no runs
oh great, kennedy, just they guy we need!
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:06 PM EDT reply actions
We are NOT leaving a runner at third!!!!!!
by '54 Cardinal Fan on Apr 19, 2008 2:06 PM EDT reply actions
Our best hitters
look bad vs Lincecum
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
Yeah
we prety much had him in a position where he had to throw to Ankiel and Pujols, and got zero runs out of it. At least they worked the count this inning, I guess.
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
More bad news
Cubs a clobbering the shitty Pirates.. again.
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 2:07 PM EDT reply actions
I really dislike TLR at times like this...
twice now, we’ve faced the Giants toughest pitcher and he’s put out the worst possible lineup each time
boo cubs, hooray beer
you think?
What would you do different? I could see working Ludwick in there, but Duncan and Schumaker are seeing the ball pretty well right now.
And Glaus isn’t playing well at all, don’t mind giving him a day off one bit.
Glaus should be playing
playing well or not he’s infinitely better than Washington. Any time Adam Kennedy is hitting 5th, things are bad.
boo cubs, hooray beer
It could be worse
Larue could be playing….
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
Lincecum looks bored out there..
did you see that when he got two strikes on Ankiel….he knew what was next….
mattnj
Somehow try to get to Lincecum
Or atleast try to get his pitch count up and try to get at their bullpen.
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
Not likely.. I don't even think he's broken 35 pitches in the first 4
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
He's at 43
Hopefully he starts to lose some command as he tires
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
he's hittable today
All three hits off of him have been clear, solid hits. Just need to string them together. Last inning really hurt, though.
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
Pinero is doing a good job today
Other than a hanging breaking ball or two I see this as a pretty good start.
Pineiro is unimpressively on his way to a quality start ...
at least he is keeping us in it … get to this guy, you guys …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
Nice hit, Yadi
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
it was nice knowin' ya uncle rico
when is ryan due back?
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:18 PM EDT reply actions
hurry back ryan- rico misses triple A
When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?
by RosevilleRedbird on Apr 19, 2008 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I said it the other day
but I’ll say it again, there’s a reason why a guy has more than 4,000 at-bats in the minor leagues without ever making it to the big leagues. He is bad.
"Lincecum is old-school"
Yes, Al, what does that mean?
by Colonel Wellemeyer on Apr 19, 2008 2:22 PM EDT reply actions
No,
But the term “old school” in commentator lingo usually just means a white or “gritty” player.
by Colonel Wellemeyer on Apr 19, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
"a white or "gritty" player."
Isn’t that the same thing?
At least aren’t all “gritty” players white?
A question
while contemplating the damage done by a double play:
Does anyone else have trouble watching you tube videos while gamecast is up, or is it just me?
Curse you Endy!!!!!
jo-el looks pretty good to be honest
he’s just overshadowed at the moment by lincecum
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:24 PM EDT reply actions
and how is it that you don't strike out a single player
on the Giants team.
I though Pineiro was throwing a lot of junk over the plate and letting the batters get themselves out. Unfortunately, I don’t think that was a gameplan but a function of his crappy breaking stuff.
damnit
getting out of our grasp rather quickly.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:28 PM EDT reply actions
Ok, now this one is over
We won’t be getting to their bullpen, and getting 3 off lincecum is pretty much impossible with this lineup.
boo cubs, hooray beer
I'm not sure
any lineup the Cards could put out there would easily get 3 off of Lincecum. Give the kid his due.
by Colonel Wellemeyer on Apr 19, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Have confidence
I’m sure we’ll win through sheer pitcher batting eigthiness
Curse you Endy!!!!!
what i remember about kirk reuter
huge ears, and could pitch so so
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
what i remember about kirk reuter
back in the ‘02 NLCS cardinals vs giants joe buck kissing his ass for THREE WHOLE INNINGS.
screaming at my TV the whole time cursing joe for trying to be too neutral.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Duncan wants to be starting somethin'
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
id take a double
or anything other than an out, you got part one right lets see about part 2
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
he hasn't thrown him anything
albert’s not going to get himself out.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply actions
That curve is no where near as good as the
fb and change
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
Well Hobbs...
You got anything for us here?
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 2:40 PM EDT reply actions
This is our chance ...
Go Ank …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
3-0 to Ankiel
not good for Timmy
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
i was thinking the same thing
not that it matters now.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
eh
the top of the lineup is hitting him.
the bottom just makes me wanna cry.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:42 PM EDT reply actions
It may be blasphemy
but does anyone want us to start Ludwick, Duncan, and Schumaker some game?
Ankiel has somewhat cooled.
eh, kinda
but the only way ankiel is going to hit is to keep trying.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I’m not against Ankiel, but with this whole Ludwick, Schu, and Duncan doing great it’s weird we haven’t thought to rest Ankiel sometime.
I wouldnt mind ankiel
Sitting a game. He has always been streaky though. And he did have an rbi double last night correct?
better start for Joel P
some runs would have been nice, but at least his next start wont be against Lincecum
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
considering many variables
wouldn’t you think that these patient, tolerant opportunities being offer Pienero are about showcasing his health and viability as a starting pitcher. I would think that there are conversations going on as we speak in GM offfices around the league. Clearly we need a backup third baseman that can take a big league at bat. I’m sure there are feelers making there way around.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Apr 19, 2008 2:46 PM EDT reply actions
not piniero
his got another year on the contract. Plus he fits the LaDuncan mold.
But he does need the hook here.
He has pitch twice against the Giants.....
Considering he has another year at a reasonable price makes him that much more attractive as a fill for injured superstars. Trade him while his value is apparent, and let other teams move him again at the deadline. We need a hitter!!!!!!!
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Apr 19, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Bredan Ryan is set to return soon
if I’m nor mistaken.
Curse you Endy!!!!!
A-Rey
really only pitches when we’re ahead.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
A-Rey only pitches when the other teams have sent a scout......
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
good start by jo-el
quality start assuming thompson holds ‘em down.
and here comes ludwick! good call larussa
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:49 PM EDT reply actions
rehab
why did they rush joel p back and do these two starts as rehab and not let him get some minors starts?
sundays game didnt give him much of a chance..today he did better but again against lincecum..
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
There is bloop #1
One more.. then the blast
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 2:54 PM EDT reply actions
damnit
that wasn’t the time for a hit and run. make him throw pitches.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:54 PM EDT reply actions
Pineiro gets a quality start ... keeps the game close ...
but has an unimpressive FIGS tally of 49 … tied with the worst of the year … with himself … however, Bob Gibson wouldn’t win today with no run support … Lincecum is just too good …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
disagree
cardinals just can’t get the timely hit.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Noise from the bottom of the order ?
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
You need it in some games.
This would be one of them. Albert and Ank haven’t done anything yet.
Just no doubleplay here so we can get into the bullpen please.
I wonder if having 4
legitimate outfielders makes it easier to pull a double switch later in the game, significantly enough to affect the number of wins.
Curse you Endy!!!!!
Hit it hard, Ludz ...
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
Oh, joy. It's Izz2's turn.......
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Well, he moved them over ...
now we need a key hit … from Cesar? Rally killer or hero …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
I'd take ANYTHING with Cesar up ...
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't you love to pinch hit ...
Brendan Ryan right now ? ...
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
me too
looks like he’s stuck in middle school.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
ya giving joel a heck of a shot
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
AK and Uncle Rico
got on base. It’s up to Ludwick to drive someone in. It’s tough having only a couple of good scoring chances, but that’s baseball. When you face good pitching, you’re not going to get many good scoring chances. You have to deliver.
NOW, we start wearing him down????????
by '54 Cardinal Fan on Apr 19, 2008 3:03 PM EDT reply actions
95 pitches...
so who knows. We might chase him next inning. Would be nice to face someone else that’s for sure.
Iz2
is a carnival of suck right now…bottom of the lineup battong 200ish ouch..
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
What a surprise ...
a weak grounder to 1B … Cesar is a waste of a line-up spot … Damnit, I want Edgar back …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
Well, we got out pitched
What are you going to do? It’s a shame it has to come on a day when the Cubs and Brewers will pick up wins.
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 3:05 PM EDT reply actions
No kidding
I’d say the Pirates are the worst team in baseball right now. No pitching, no hitting outside of Nady
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
like the Giants? It's not as though our competition has been tough either :P
Granted, the Pirates have no pitchers on the same level as Lincecum. I think i’d take Lincecum over any pitcher in the NL right now outside of Brandon Webb and Jake Peavy.
boo cubs, hooray beer
The Pirates don't have pitching.. Giants do
That’s the difference right now.
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes ... And I can't wait for us to play them ourselves ...
Damn schedule has it aways off yet, thought … we just need to continue to keep kicking these bad teams this month … it’s going to get harder next month …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh wait ... we play the Cubs May 2-4 ...
That will be a fun series … I hope we thump them good …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly ... but, that's baseball ...
Maybe we can get to their bullpen yet …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
this aint over!
still got the top of the lineup one more chance and two innings to go.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
That ball 4 from Thompson
Looked a lot like strike 1 against Ankiel.
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 3:10 PM EDT reply actions
I gotta wonder how much longer Rico
is going to be allowed to struggle before being cut loose. I understand letting a guy like Glaus or Izturis fight through being rough at the plate because they are part of the longterm plan. However, what does it matter if Rico comes around? He can’t possibly be thought of as a legit bench player.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 19, 2008 3:11 PM EDT reply actions
You would think so ...
but not when you have Tony’s favoritism of players to contend with …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know it if favoritism
but his comments about Brendan having to earn his way back on to the team is confusing.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 19, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree
because rico’s done so much to threaten ryan’s spot.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know what else to call it ...
You’ve got Ryan’s ST #’s and what he’s doing right now … vs Rico and this pathetic numbers while he’s been up … and Brendan gets tongue lashed … what is that? ... it’s the shaft, that’s what it is …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
your going to make me
Start to point out everytime Tony says something nice about Ryan and Reyes again.
Go ahead ... I'm not talking about Reyes ...
I just don’t understand the hesitation on Ryan … do you?
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I unsderstand
Wanting a player to prove that they are healthy and wont reinjury themselves. As well as look like they will be able to produce at the major league level after missing a few weeks of spring training and the season.
What I don’t understand is how come Piniero didn’t.
From Kary Booher:
Springfield manager Pop Warner, sticking to the itinerary set forth for the 26-year-old utilityman working his way back to the big leagues, gave Ryan the day off.linkThis after a pair of up-and-down days in which Ryan was 4-for-5 on Thursday and then 0-for-5 on Friday. The hitless game had Ryan talking about how is swinging at sliders even before they leave the pitcher’s hand.
Hence, his timing is off, as Ryan recovers from a rib cage injury.
just joined in--
and I’ve gotta say, it’s pretty scary that Pineiro still doesn’t have a strikeout this season . . .
On with the (good) youth movement!
For a 5th starter
I’ll take a QS.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 19, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
6 Outs left
Where’s that fight in the late innings we’ve been seeing lately boys?
by cloistermaximus on Apr 19, 2008 3:15 PM EDT reply actions
hard line drive to center
could have easily been a triple
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
I'm fine with complaining about it when they are hacking at stuff out of the zone
like the at bat before duncan’s last one, where he hacked at this slider that was no where near the zone. But when they tatoo a pitch over the middle of the plate, I can hardly complain.
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
by Valatan on Apr 19, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well at least we're into their pen ...
let’s see if we can do something with it … we got the top of the order up …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
This is just not our day ...
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
well that'll about do it
ankiel, kennedy, and molina don’t strike me as capable rally starters.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 3:25 PM EDT reply actions
Rico is playing good defense today ...
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
dan's losing it
and what’s up with the bleachers being so empty? we’re only down by three and the game’s barely two hours old.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 3:32 PM EDT reply actions
Attendance is down all over baseball
so far this season…I have noticed this watching highlites from other games as well. Another sign that the economy is in bad shape I guess.
or people are getting tired of ESPN
Shoving the Yanks and Red Soxs down or throat.
Unfortunely I think it’s an economy thing. Weather isn’t that nice here either.
yeah
makes the decision harder to put ‘em back down in memphis when the time comes.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Al has completely lost his mind
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
they both have
must be the whole working six days a week thing.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
My uncle was talking earlier about how awful they are
They’re decent play-by-play guys…but seriously, they need to shut up with the stupid tangents.
well maybe your girlfriend and i are made for each other
but really, that’s funny.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Only thing I am upset about today's game is...
18 men LOB….I am fine with loosing to a good pitcher, but we have had our chances and couldn’t cash in.
Boy, I hope we get to see Ludwick ...
bat one more time …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
Can't we have Glaus here?
Why not?
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
Especially with Ludwick next
this makes little sense.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 19, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
+1 ... I'd have Glaus up right now ..
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
In the majors
if you are known to take a strike while trailing, you’ll be down one strike and facing an uphill battle. This isn’t high-school baseball we’re talking about here. Pitchers can throw strikes on demand and will exploit dogmatic hitting.
I don’t think it would have mattered anyway. Full credit to Lincecum, curse his dark and evil heart.
by StanTheManFan on Apr 19, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh
I think if your name happens to be Rico Washington, you’re taking a strike in front of Sir Ludwick. Maybe if your name is Albert Pujols, the rules change a little. But there’s no way Rico should be hacking there.
what difference does it make?
he swung at a strike, falling behind 0-1 in the count. if he takes the pitch, he’s behind 0-1 in the count . . . . . why would he have been better off taking the pitch? what advantage would he gain?
Well obviously it didn't matter in this case
The theory is that it prevents people from swinging at balls. If the goal is baserunners, you take a strike. It’s just how I was always taught.
Philosophical thing, I guess. I’d like to see some numbers on it to tell if it ludicrous, but it has always made sense to me.
dan and al
talking about what has been mantioned here numerous times…take a pitch when trailing..
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
You see that bone from Tony too......
You may not see Pinero again either
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Apr 19, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Bockock has made some tough plays look easy today
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
Can we end the Rico reign now?
How much is enough?
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 19, 2008 3:45 PM EDT reply actions
Leach on Ryan.
* TLR said some things today about how it’s not guaranteed that Brendan Ryan won’t be optioned once he’s healthy, but honestly… there’s pretty much no way he’s not on the roster once his rehab finishes.
Got to tip your cap to
Lincecum. He’s a great young pitcher. Surely a future Cy Young Award contender.
Just wish we would have put a better line-up against him, but let’s go for the series win tomorrow!!
HOW CAN YOU NOT START
LUDWICK!!!!!!!!!!!
HE IS CRUSHING RIGHTIES LIKE NO ONE ELSE!!!!!!!
EMBERESSMENT TO THE PROFESSION OF MANAGING!!
you're an embarassment to spelling and using the correct tone of voice.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 19, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
my spelling was pretty bad
but my tone of voice was right on!
late to the discussion
but…”There is no hitter in baseball that’s going to force opposing pitchers to pitch to Albert” except for albert himself, M.Cabrera whom we had no prospects to burn on him, and no money for a-rod.
by from First to Third on Apr 19, 2008 8:56 PM EDT reply actions
So I was watching the Rays/White Sox game with my son.
Eric Hinske comes up to bat and his music is the song “Walk” by Pantera…...sweet.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Ask Alex: Will Julio Teheran or Matt Moore win rookie of the year?
- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
- The Cardinals Hall of Fame can now be found at Bill Clinton’s library in Arkansas (Huh?)
- Will Bryce Harper start the season with the Nationals?
- Mitch Mustain puts football behind him, signs reported rookie deal with White Sox
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
