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Saturday, 19th April Discussion/Game Thread- Blowout Thoughts

 

Lincecum Piñeiro
2-0, 2.25 0-1, 14.73

First off, I want to thank Lboros for covering for me on Wednesday.  I greatly appreciate the helping hand, Lb.  You made a very difficult time a little bit easier to bear. 

Tremendous win last night by the Cardinals.  The offense put together it's biggest inning of the year so far, the six run fourth, it's biggest run total at 11, and the largest margin of victory so far.  All of this against one of the best young pitchers in the game today. 

The real key to this game, and, in my ever so humble opinion, the key going forward, was the performance of the top of the lineup.  The top two hitters last night, Skip Schumaker and Chris Duncan, respectively, combined to go 4 for 7 with three walks.  Between the two of them, they got on base ahead of Albert and the middle of the lineup seven times.  Duncan hit a homer and a double, driving in two.  Schumaker drove in a pair as well with a two run single in the fourth that continued the inning.  Even more remarkable than the run production from those two spots was the runs scored.  The two of them combined to score six, count 'em, six times. 

There's been a ton of talk recently about trying to find some better protection for Albert in the lineup, and most of it has focused, naturally, on the cleanup position.  To me, though, the first two spots in the lineup represent the only real chance the Cardinals have to get that protection for Albert.  There is no hitter in baseball that's going to force opposing pitchers to pitch to Albert.  Runners on base ahead of him, though, will.  The top two spots in this lineup are far more important to whether or not Albert will see any pitches to hit than the hitters behind him, in my opinion.  As long as those two can continue to get on base, teams will be forced to try and get Albert out.  We saw firsthand last night what sorts of results we can expect in those cases. 

There is, however, a downside to the performance of those two outfielders last night, though, particularly Duncan.  As long as they keep producing, it makes it much harder for me to complain that Crab Man should be getting more playing time.  This puts me in a bind, as I happen to be a huge backer of Mr. Barton.  It's a very trying situation, you know, whenever reality interferes with your personal preferences.  Sigh...

As impressive as the offense was, I was personally more astounded by the performance of Wellemeyer.  I've been a very vocal critic in the past of Welley in the rotation, but I've been mostly won over.  I say mostly because I still fear he isn't able to give consistent six plus inning performances, and I worry about the burden on the pen, probably more than I really should.  Last night, though, Wellemeyer turned in probably the best start of his career, and one of the two or three best starts we've seen from a Cardinal hurler this season. 

In his seven innings of work, Wellemeyer gave only one run on four hits, (the run scoring hit, of course, being an infield single off of his- ahem- lower back type region area) with six strikeouts to two walks.  Those last numbers, to me, represent the really important statistic to look at here. 

With the addition of those numbers, Wellemeyer now has 26 strikeouts to only 9 walks, in 25 innings of work.  That's almost exactly in line with his 3:1 K/BB ratio from last night's game.  The knock on Wellemeyer, of course, has always been his elevated walk numbers and high pitch counts.  If this is a genuine improvement, (and obviously, the sample size isn't large enough to determine a whole lot, but it is getting close to being at least significant) then suddenly Wellemeyer isn't a serviceable starter, but a potential front half of the rotation starter.  I'm not sure how this has happened, and I don't know if it's sustainable, but I'm hoping. 

Last night, he was about as efficient as you can possibly imagine he ever will be.  He threw 107 pitches, 72 for strikes.  He struck out six, got seven groundball outs, eight fly outs.  Anytime you see a strike to ball ratio of better than 2:1, you have to take notice.  Wellemeyer, in addition to being efficient and aggressive, was throwing gas last night.  Going by the Pitchf/x data, (and I'm just getting used to using it, so bear with me if I'm not quite right) he was averaging 93.7 mph on his fastball, with a high of 95.5.  For a starter, that's an incredible combination of velocity and control. 

All of this, of course, really begs the question: what happens to Wellemeyer next?  When Mark Mulder comes back, which should be in about three weeks, he's expected to slide into the rotation.  Wainwright's rotation spot is secure, along with Looper.  Kyle Lohse has obviously done nothing to pitch his way out of the rotation.  Pineiro was resigned just this past offseason, to a two year deal.  He signed with the Cardinals specifically because they guaranteed him a spot starting, so I imagine they would be loathe to move him to the bullpen, even on a temporary basis.  So where exactly does the team go with Welley?  He has better raw stuff than any pitcher on the staff outside of Adam Wainwright, (and that's a close call) and, possibly Anthony Reyes, he's striking out hitters at a rate of better than one per inning, and, most importantly, he's maintaining a K/BB ratio of almost 3:1.  Yet, because of the roster numbers, he may face losing his spot in the rotation. 

I know it's still a ways off, so why don't I just table the question until it actually comes up, right?  Well, I ask because we've already seen one starter bumped for a returning pitcher in Brad Thompson, who now faces an additional crisis with the impending return of Russ Springer.  The decision on what to do with Wellemeyer and the other starters will be here much quicker than we realise, and with the way Welley has pitched so far this year, it could end up being a very significant decision. 

So, a couple of points to discuss this morning. 

One, what do you do with the looming roster crunch?  If all remains equal as it does today, (which I know will not happen, but still) who loses their spot?  Should anyone? 

Two, what have you been most surprised by this season so far?  Pleasant or unpleasant, either way.  My personal surprises have been the aforementioned Messrs. Wellemeyer and Schumaker.  Wellemeyer has improved in the one area that always kept him back, and Skippy appears, at least to my eyes, to have become a viable major league hitter.  It may still be early, but Skip has passed every test presented to him so far with flying colours, and I don't see any major weaknesses in his game to really hinder him.  I freely admit, I never saw it coming.  Reyes has been a pleasant surprise also, but I actually always believed in him.  The other two, not so much. 

Three, in last night's overflow thread, there was a bit of discussion of what theme song would best embody the glory that is the Cardinals' mulletted backup catcher, Jason LaRue.  There were many suggestions, with Def Leppard receiving some shoutouts, (or should that be shouts out?  I'm not very good with the modern vernacular...) Ratt's "Round and Round" coming up, and Styx getting some love.  I want you to give me LaRue's perfect theme song, and any song you desperately want to see used by a player, be it a batter or a reliever.  For LaRue, I nominate Foreigner's "Dirty White Boy" or, even better, pretty much anything from the Red Rocker, St. Louis favourite Sammy Hagar.  I think something from the Hagar catalogue would be particularly good; he's a beloved icon here in the Lou, especially among those who sport facial hair of a similar bent to LaRue's own, he's already associated with red, so there's a nice Cardinal tie in... I think it's a match made in heaven.  What do you guys think? 

One last thing: also from the overflow last night, Mr. Redbird referred to Troy Glaus as "Santa Glaus."  I don't know if this is the first time he's been called as such here; it's the first I've noticed.  Anyhow, I vote that we make Santa Glaus the official VEB nickname for Troy.  I think maybe a really great nickname is just what he needs to get going.  What say you, denizens of El Vivi Birders? 

That's all I got.  It was too good of a game to really complain much, so let's just bask a little bit.  Reality will kick in soon enough, right about the time Tim Lincecum goes into that ridiculous windup of his and blows the first fastball past our leadoff hitter.  Good luck, boys.  You're probably going to need it. 

Later, everybody.

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Nicknames

I’m all for Santa Glaus. I’m also all for adding (in the recommended fanposts section) a list of all the current Cardinals aside their nicknames and all of the former Cardinals of recent years’ nicknames into one large fanpost for those of us who have a short memory span at times and love to reminisce.

by stlfan on Apr 19, 2008 9:12 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Who gets bumped from the rotation?

I vote Looper, move Thompson down to Memphis and put him in their rotation. Looper can be the long man in the pen or spot starter. I know he has expressed his distaste for moving back to the pen, but he has got to be the odd man out. Maybe he can be traded, but I would be cautious at this point to trade Looper, Reyes, or Thompson, with the injury riddled pasts of our “Calvary” it’s not a guaranty that once they come off the DL they won’t go right back on. See every return by Mulder so far, and Carpenter’s rehab assignment last season. There is no problem with having too much servicable starting pitching.

I'm looking for the next Bobby Bonilla?

by showmejoe on Apr 19, 2008 9:31 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

No guarantees on Mulder, Pineiro, Clement, Carp

as Silent Bob points out in another post—well, he doesn’t include Pineiro but you get my point.

I’m all for a “wait-n-see” approach. Wait and see if Looper and Welly can continue their fast starts. Wait and see if our three rehab pitchers regain their velocity and control, and the ability to pitch “pain free.” There’s no compelling reason to rush the four hurlers listed above. We’re in first and their replacements are doing the job.

You can’t have too much pitching.

by gocards62 on Apr 19, 2008 9:55 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yeah......I'm with you.

No guarantees that the injured starters will come back anywhere close to their past. I’m kind of thinking Clement is probably done, and Mulder will most likely never come close to his great days in Oakland. And if they pick up his option, that’s a lot of money.
Pineiro never excited me, and I’m not that thrilled with that signing. Maybe if he gets going good he’s the one that should be traded-along with Reyes. The folks that like him in the organization are not the guys who put the line up together, and the Braves look to be in need of someone just like Anthony RIGHT NOW.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 19, 2008 10:24 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

The Braves are looking for pitching?

I wonder if they have anyone we would want?

Please keep on the Reyes stump, even if you do offend 1,347,449 VEBers every time.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Apr 19, 2008 10:58 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Oh, you are funny....and I can't seem to stop myself. Well, at least I have cut back.

The Braves have GOT to be looking for pitching…...Glavine is on the DL, Hampton, I know, shocking, but he’s on the DL again. Smoltz is pitching with a knot in his shoulder (quite well, I might add), James has not recovered well from his shoulder woes-he starts today, so we’ll see. Hudson is going to be alright, but Juerjjens is in his first year starting and he’ll go through the ups and downs they all do in the first year.

I am absolutely sure the Braves have something he want on the farm, even after cashing out last year. It just won’t be a pitcher.

And I would have one question for Mr. LaRussa. If Brendan Ryan has to earn his roster spot back, (he’s implied that he’s not going toget it just because he’s healthy enough) then why not the same standard for Mulder, Clement, and yes, even Pineiro?

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 19, 2008 11:11 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Oh, and I wanted to add my son, the Braves fan, wants them to acquire Reyes

for the simple fact that they will have 2 Reyes’ a righty and a lefty-with Anthony being the boy and Jo-Jo the girl. He really wants that to happen so he can sit there and laugh to himself when he watches the Braves…..

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 19, 2008 11:18 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

The Braves

do look like good trading partners. Of course, we all know that Lillibridge would be a great target, and they have some nice depth in most spots overall.

The Mets look like a possible fit for a deal, but their cupboard is pretty bare following the Santana Selloff; I’m still sure we could find something of value.

The Giants seem to be looking for a left handed hitting first basemen. I wonder if there could be a fit there?

The Yankees need pitching, and they have a nicely stocked system at the moment.

I think the Angels could be a possible target, as they seem to be having their own troubles with the injury bug…

I think the Rangers might be a decent partner, too. I’m not totally sure, but they seem to have some pitching, specifically relief pitching, issues to contend with.

I’m sure there are others, but those are the ones that really jump out at me.

All your failures are just training grounds.

by the red baron on Apr 19, 2008 11:19 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I know that the Pirates are in the Central, but 3 of their 5 starter are leftys.....

Maybe they would part with one of them for one of our extra rightys? Too bad the Cards probably won’t consider trading with the Cubs. They don’t seem to be to thrilled with their lefty starters Marshall and Veal, (in the minors)....there’s a straight up trade right there….

The Rangers have Milton Bradley DH’ing right now…..he should be ready to take the outfield by June. I know our outfielders have done well so far, but if the Rangers would part with Bradley, I’d give them a pitcher or three…....

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 19, 2008 11:34 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Bradley

I’ve got to disagree with you here – OF is the last position that we need to upgrade. As you said, the OF’s we have are doing well and we are already crowded at the big league level and at AAA. Counting Rasmus and Mather (who are probably both ready to see some action with the big club this year at some point) we’ve got seven guys for three spots – we should be dealing from that depth to add to areas of weakness (like middle infield).

by roarke on Apr 19, 2008 11:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

You have a point.....but Mr. Bradley is an elite player when healthy.

He bats switch and he does it all. I know infield is a more pressing need, but I would love to see him here, even if he’s a little crazy…...he does go all out when he’s playing, so I don’t care about the crazy part…...
Go see if Beane will let go of Ellis…..my bet is if Crosby is healthy for a few months, he’s on the block, but I’d rather have Ellis.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 19, 2008 11:50 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I gotta agree

Milton can carry a lineup when he is hot(and healthy)!
The way Beane has been emptying his team of everything I think you HAVE to see if Ellis or Crosby are on the block either one of those I would be ecstatic to acquire!! either one of those would be a huge upgrade for our MIF.

"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston

by Calhoun on Apr 19, 2008 1:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yes, agreed and...Starters should be starting based on merit.

I think it’s crazy to take Looper or Welley out of the rotation. What are the realistic chances that Mulder pitches (even one game) like Welley has been pitching? I think Mulder, Pineiro and ect. should be in the Bullpen until they prove their merit…all history and contracts aside, the starters we have now are performing. They’ve earned it. Let them keep it until they don’t. As far Thompson being set down…WHY? He’s looked good (yes a comments sans the stats) IMHO. I’m not so sure the grass is greener over in MulderPineiroClementCarpenterVILLE.

mattnj

by mattnj on Apr 19, 2008 11:03 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yes, but...

you have to make room for those guys somehow. You say let the current pitchers hold on until they prove they shouldn’t be there. The problem, though, then becomes, “okay, where do I stash all of these pitchers coming back from injuries?”

You can’t send these guys to the minors; they’re not optionable players. You have to find someplace to put them, or stick them back on the DL. You can’t trade a player on the disabled list, and you can’t showcase them enough to trade them if they aren’t pitching.

So I ask: Where are you going to stick all of these pitchers?

All your failures are just training grounds.

by the red baron on Apr 19, 2008 11:13 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Its a nice problem to have...

What do you think? I can’t bare the thought of Mulder nocking any of these guys out of the rotation right now.

mattnj

by mattnj on Apr 19, 2008 11:21 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yeah but....

Mulder has All-star potential you have to give him a shot.. you cannot say Welly or Thompson or Looper have more potential then Mulder…

"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston

by Calhoun on Apr 19, 2008 1:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yeah, but I have a feeling it's "had" all star potential. I'm not convinced he'll ever be close to what he was.

I’d be delighted to be proved wrong—Mulder seems like a decent fellow, and we have no lefthanders in the rotation. Most pitchers just don’t come back from such serious injuries.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 19, 2008 1:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yeah I agree

I am not sure if he can ever get back to all star form either BUT because of his track record you have to give him the shot to regain his previous form. You know as well as I do with a healthy sharp Mulder we are a WAY better team so gotta give him his chance.

"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston

by Calhoun on Apr 19, 2008 1:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Then let him show his potential

during his rehab stint. He also has the “potential” to throw 85-mph major league batting practice. I want that “potential” explored in the minors rather than the majors as well.

Mulder should not finish that rehab stint and come off the DL any more than five minutes sooner than the rules require it. It is imperative that the team understand exactly what he’s still good for before doing anything committal. If he really does come back as a top starter, then move Pineiro to the pen for now; he’ll get chances to start later, when one of the current starters falters or gets hurt (and they will, overachieving or not). If not, a pen slot is right, with an attempt to sneak Villone through waivers.

by StanTheManFan on Apr 19, 2008 1:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Rehab stints

Dont always show you what your gonna get…. we wont know for sure until he faces actual Major League hitters in a real game. But I agree dont take him out of rehab until the last possible second.

"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston

by Calhoun on Apr 19, 2008 1:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Well(e)...

If Col. Wellemeyer continues to pitch like he did last night, one would think it will be virtually impossible to remove him from the rotation. I think it’s more likely somebody gets hurt or tagged a bunch (see Piniero) and Welle stays both on merit and on need.

I also think Mulder might be best served as a lefty arm out of the pen, as was suggested by another poster a few days ago. If he’s throwing 87-88 in his starts, he might be able to throw 90-92 as a reliever. It solves two problems and might make him somewhat useful.

by mattisnotfrench on Apr 19, 2008 9:41 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Cheesy

but it still made me laugh.

by k randolph on Apr 19, 2008 12:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Glausage with Cheese?

Oh, yum…...

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 19, 2008 1:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

or just...

Summer Glaus, a la THE SARAH CONNER CHRONICLES.

by tinstl on Apr 19, 2008 1:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I had and have no problem

with the Cards making room for Pineiro by dropping Thompson, who I still think is really just a replacement level guy, from the rotation. Pineiro has the chance to be more than that.

As for Wellemeyer, if he continues to pitch like this, I don’t see how the Cards can drop him from the rotation for Mulder. As others have discussed, trading Mulder (or Lohse, Looper, or Pineiro) may well be something the Cardinals are actively looking at between now and early May.

If they can’t make a trade, then I think the Cards have to consider a 6 man rotation or a piggy-back rotation for one or two of the starting spots. Others have discussed how LaRussa does not trust the pen and key members like Mcclellan and Franklin are getting worn down. If Pineiro and Mulder are still working back to full strength then maybe a piggy-back with those two might make sense.

by JMedwick on Apr 19, 2008 10:32 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Yes but what do they have

to offer us? I doubt they would give up Cano for any of our pitchers. Is there some great prospect at AAA? You were’nt thinking Morgan Ensberg, right?

mattnj

by mattnj on Apr 19, 2008 11:43 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Troy Glaus

Rally Killer.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Apr 19, 2008 10:47 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Hang in there, Hardcore...

Glaus will quit pulling his head off the ball sooner rather than later; once he does, he could wind up carrying the offense for a time.

Duncan and Schumaker both throw righty… wonder if either of them could play 3B in a pinch? (Ludwick hits right, but throws left; an unusual combination, innit?)

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Apr 19, 2008 10:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I agree with

gocards62… these “problems” tend to solve themselves; somebody will be a more obvious choice to get “the boot” by the time Mulder is actually ready to pitch! It wouldn’t surprise me to see the Cardinals use most of their 30-day window to allow Mulder to make more than one start for Memphis.

The current starters have been over-the-top good; heck, a rotation of Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax and Bob Feller in their primes wouldn’t be able to sustain the Cards’ stats through 16 starts (not counting Piñeiro’s)... a 2.55 ERA, with a 1.13 WHIP and a 2.64-to-1 strikeout to walk ratio! Even with Piñeiro’s stinker, the starters have a 2.98 ERA and a 1.19 WHIP!

The Gang Of Five in the outfield, on the other hand, might be pretty solid offensively! Part of the projection difficulties with them is the small MLB sample size; they don’t have a “proven” track record, so there’s more guesswork involved. However, I like their collective approach at the plate thus far… all have shown a willingness to take walks, and they’re (largely) laying off pitches out of the strike zone.

Let’s just ride this horse as long as we can, and enjoy the ride along the way!

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Apr 19, 2008 10:52 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Rotation Issue

I think the verdict is still out on Pineiro. As some have suggested, maybe he’s still hurt. We should find out more with today’s start.

My biggest surprise of the season is definitely Wellemeyer. He showed some flashes early in his career with the Cubs but his control was always too much of an issue. Sometimes one minor adjustment can improve location and maybe a little bit of Coach Dunc’s magic was all he needed. If he can keep up the solid K/BB ratio, he’s gonna keep putting up good results.

Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)

by stltrav09 on Apr 19, 2008 11:00 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

This is what TLR does well

He uses April to figure out the best team.

I guess Thompson gets sent down for springer…then I guess dropping Villone out and using Mulder in the pen for now just makes too much sense to do?

by Harknights on Apr 19, 2008 11:00 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Put Mulder in the pen whe he comes back...

and let him build up arm strength.

daydream...i fell asleep amid the flowers

by Raconteur on Apr 19, 2008 11:20 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

I agree. There’s already talk of having Carp come back in the pen when he’s ready so he can be contributing but not strained. I think this is the way the handled Morris when he came back from surgery? Do the same with Mulder, Clement. Mulder’s not gonna come back and be the pitcher he was in Oakland, even though that’s what everyone wants from him. Might as well take some pressure off of him.

I say Mulder goes pen, bum Thompson down to AAA, solely for that homerun he gave up to Fielder.

by voltronchris on Apr 19, 2008 11:25 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Please tell me that you don't really mean that Thompson should be sent down just for giving up

a homer to Fielder. After watching Pineiro in San Francisco look pretty bad, they ought to consider that he needs to go for a few more rehab starts….which, if he looks the same today, I hope they do.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 19, 2008 11:41 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I agree...

that Pineiro came back too soon. His “good” rehab starts weren’t all that great, IMO. Can he be sent back for more? If so, send him back, give Thompson more chances to show how valuable he is.

Otherwise, I just feel like at this point, Thompson should be the victim of the number crunch. If Wellemeyer keeps up with his INSANE strikeout ratio (seriously, for a man who walked as many as he did last year, did ANYONE see this coming?), and if he can consistently go 6-7 innings, how do you push him out at this point?

K-Mac and A-Rey have made this too damn complicated by throwing wicked stuff out there. I guess it’s a good thing to complain about at this point!

by voltronchris on Apr 19, 2008 12:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

trade pineiro and kennedy/iz2...

...for a good middle infielder. I don’t know what the market is like but pineiro is not pitching that well, imo, and the middle infield sucks. I’m really not counting on Clement or Mulder to do much this year though so I think our depth of pitchers is a good thing.

by sbentley on Apr 19, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Mulder and Carp

in the bullpen, that seems logical. To bad it’s not going to happen. Per the Post-Dispatch.

Though it might shorten the length of his rehab from elbow surgery, the Cardinals are not considering bringing Carpenter back first as a reliever so he can build toward a late-season return to the rotation.

Manager Tony La Russa dismissed that same notion for Mark Mulder, who will make his second rehab start Sunday

Tony shot that idea down real quick. But there is a chance he’ll change his mind right? That happens once a decade or so right?

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Apr 19, 2008 12:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I'm distressed to read that.

I have high hopes for Carpenter-next year. He is signed to a long term contract, and he has had a significant amount of serious injuries. I am opposed to rushing him and overworking him because he is a valuable asset and I fear that’s just what Mr. LaRussa will do.

I think Tony has admitted to being wrong about something once in the last 30 years. It only changes if Carpenter’s health is in question….IMO

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 19, 2008 12:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Oh, Tony

That’s really sad. Tony makes some BIZARRE choices, but a lot of them have paid off, so I guess I’ll just have to roll with them…

by voltronchris on Apr 19, 2008 12:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Remember ... he's the 'counter-intuitive' thinker ...

but I trust him …

Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...

by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 2:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

The Obvious Answer

With Lohse, Welly, Loop and Reyes all pitching better than expected, the Cards desperately need to trade one or more of these parts (or Pineiro) for middle infield help. Only issue is timing. Would like to know that Mulder, Clement or Carp will be able to come up and take their spot and of course we need some other teams to suffer either SP injuries or to have a rotation or two underperform.

My choice is to let Welly go if we can get a serious 2B or SS upgrade—might also let Loop go or Franklin if some package can net us an all-star 2B.

Didn’t we get Edmunds for Bottenfeld—isn’t Welly the same kind of flash in the pan?

by The Duke on Apr 19, 2008 11:22 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

The top 2 spots in the order

are absolutely the keys to getting Albert pitches to hit and RBI opportunities. Few hitters scare opposing pitchers and managers enough to slide into that 4 spot and make Albert get pitches to hit. Skip and Dunc, or whoever, are going to have to get on base a lot.

As for Jason LaRue—I see something more along the lines of Molly Hatchet . How about “Flirtin’ with Disaster” by Molly Hatchet?

by houstoncardinal on Apr 19, 2008 11:31 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Jason LaRue looks Southern Rock to me ...

Like someone else said sometime back … he looks like he should be working on my truck … how about Lynyrd Skynyrd … ‘They Call Me the Breeze’ ... the Breeze reminds me of all the times he strikes out …

Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...

by Cardinals4Ever on Apr 19, 2008 2:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Skynyrd

Perhaps “Gimme Back My Bullets”...kinda fits…i dunno..nevermind

by brindled on Apr 19, 2008 2:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I was thinking more of the Drive By Truckers.....

Perhaps ‘Where The Devil Won’t Go’

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 19, 2008 2:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

What I'm most suprised by

Is were in FIRST PLACE!!!!! Even if it doesn’t hold it’s nice to say.

The national media is finally taking notice. From Fox Sports Tracy Ringolsby.

St. Louis is the team to beware. Remember, the Cardinals are getting by with their top three starters on the disabled list. But they are expecting to eventually get Chris Carpenter, Mark Mulder and Matt Clement on the active roster. And they do have that late-inning weapon, Jason Isringhausen, along with manager Tony La Russa, who has never met a challenge he hasn’t welcomed.

That and Tony is just ripping off Whiteys ideas.

La Russa isn’t afraid to go against the grain with moves like hitting his pitcher eighth, but it was Whitey Herzog with Kansas City who was the first to try a double-leadoff hitter approach, although he did it with a lineup that included a DH. Herzog would hit Freddie Patek at the bottom of the order — didn’t like his on-base percentage — and then move George Brett and Hal McRae up in the order so they’d both get up in the first inning, and after their first at-bat, they were both hitting behind Frank White, who hit eighth, and Patek, who hit ninth.

I can see it now, first inter-league game El Hombre in the two hole.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Apr 19, 2008 11:35 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Pineiro

I know we just signed him to a 2 year deal but he has to be the one to go if he doesn’t show us a very good reason to keep him in. I think people have such a positive view of this guy because he was one of the only pitchers last year to throw some quality games and eat up some innings. He was brought in to fill a gaping hole in the rotation, and to be honest, its not there anymore. I don’t think his stuff is good enough to hang in this rotation anymore.

I do think he should still get a few more starts as kind of like an audition before Mulder returns, but I’d rather see him out of rotation than Welley or Looper.

"And that's a winner. A World Series winner for the Cardinals."

by Bird Watcher on Apr 19, 2008 11:38 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Welly and Giants

Welly’s done great – but his last 2 starts have been against the Giants. A team, as Larry pointed out yesterday, ESPN recently wondered is the worse offensively ever.

I’m not saying he can’t keep this up, but it’s early and it will probably be at least 2 weeks until they think of bringing up Mulder. So I’d hold off on the magic 8 ball. That said, contracts foretell Looper will be the one traded.

by enoscountry on Apr 19, 2008 11:46 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

A modest proposal for Wellemeyer

Just running through our rotation contracts for next year. We have Carp, Waino, and Piniero for sure. We have options on Mulder and Clement (which we may or may not exercise, depending on their health and effectiveness). On the other hand, Looper and Lohse will almost certainly look to cash in somewhere.

I think we should offer Wellemeyer a contract extension now, something along the lines of $1.25-1.5M with incentives that would up the contract around $4M if he wins 10+ games and goes over 100 innings. Maybe a team option for 2010.

This way, we are insured against a vast rise in his value if he pitches really well. Worst case scenario, we pay Aaron Miles money for a middle reliever (which we will probably need next year, regardless). Best case scenario, we get a competent starter for great money.

He seems like the only one in the rotation who would bite this early on that kind of contract.

by tom s. on Apr 19, 2008 11:53 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

I would just say, lets not get ahead of ourselves here. Really. It's a small sample size

he’s looked fantastic, but I don’t think it’s necessary at this point. A wait and see approach would be prudent for the team and the player…...

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 19, 2008 11:57 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

true

But a reasonable contract might increase his trade value if he continues to look good for the next month or two.

by Evilfrog on Apr 19, 2008 12:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Maybe. But when you are dealing with pitchers, you are dealing with the very real risk of injury.

Then you pay ‘em to not pitch for you too. So I still think it would be prudent to wait.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Apr 19, 2008 12:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

can't do "games won"

but you could offer bonuses for “innings pitched” or “games started”.

And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...

by SleepyCA on Apr 19, 2008 3:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Great idea

While there is definite risk – if he’d sign a contract like the one you described I’d be all about it. Worst case is you throw away $1-2M which isn’t going to do much to the team either way. Hey – if it’s burnt money it might encourage the use of a prospect rather than signing someone off the recycle bin!

by birdo rojo on Apr 19, 2008 7:16 PM EDT to parent up