Game 15 Open Thread: April 16, 2008
Milwaukee @ St. Louis
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| Villanueva | Wainwright |
| 1-1, 4.76 | 1-1, 3.60 |
interesting tidbits in joe strauss' chat today:
John in Houston: Hi Joe. Who goes down when Springer comes back?Joe Strauss: TLR is a McClellan believer. Anthony Reyes now resembles a power arm who could spot start, if needed. The combination of those two puts Brad Thompson in peril.
discuss.
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LaRussa also said he'd "follow McClellan anywhere"
Which seems odd, until you read LaRussa’s follow up response:
“Kyle, Why can’t I quit you”.
Anyways, Thompson will go from starting rotation to AAA. That’s a far drop. It really should be Villone that goes.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 16, 2008 7:11 PM EDT 0 recs
agreed
Thompson for all purposes earned his way on the staff through the spring, and while there’s some iffy moments/ stats in his tenure thus far – you’d have to think that throwing him to AAA “for the good of the team” may very well dishearten him. Considering how bad Pin’ started off.
by AdjustedExpectations on
Apr 16, 2008 7:15 PM EDT
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Thompson deserves to be a Major League starter, but where, is anybody’s guess. I just wish they would have left piniero some more time to get ready. and of course, I hope they don’t make this same mistake twice. REYES FOR CO-CLOSER!
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 8:04 PM EDT
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Unjust
Sending down Brad Thompson seems very unjust. He held down his spot in the rotation (and quite nicely I might add) while waiting for Pineiro to return.
This is a guy who’s been up and down from The Show to AAA, and from the bullpen to the rotation and back again. That being said, it appears as if Brad has “tough skin” and won’t let a move like this get into his head like Reyes might.
I’d personally like to see Villone sent down. He isn’t used much and he doubt he has a future with this team beyond this year unlike Brad. However, we all know how much TLR likes having two leftys in the pen.
We have some more tough decisions like this to ponder over the next month or so with Mulder and TJ on their way back.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
by stltrav09 on Apr 16, 2008 7:12 PM EDT 0 recs
Clement
May start rehabbing soon. Which will put him here mid to late May. Pin/Mulder/Clement feels so scary at the moment. I hope it doesn’t turn fears into tears.
Side bar, the whole slugging Sunday may as well be a little quieter this year. If Pujos gets days off before days off routinely. We have a large number of Mondays off between now and the All-Star break.
by AdjustedExpectations on
Apr 16, 2008 7:20 PM EDT
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Argeee, villone is the one that should go.
We don’t need 2 LOOGYs. Espically when our 6 righthanders have a better shot getting out most lefty batters than either of our lefty specialists.
by DriverZn on
Apr 16, 2008 7:20 PM EDT
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I will be very surprised
if they don’t send down Villone
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 8:05 PM EDT
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Hmmm
Why not lose Villone? I guess that would leave us with Flores as our only lefty, but I would hate to lose Reyes or Thompson. With Wellemeyer, Looper, and Pineiro often needing bullpen help early in games, Reyes and Thompson seem awfully valuable as innings eaters. I don’t think I trust Mclellan, Flores, Springer, Villone, or Franklin for many 2, 3, 4 inning stints.
Btw, what’s the report on Kinney or Johnson returning? That would confuse things even more.
by fuegophil on Apr 16, 2008 7:21 PM EDT 0 recs
Keep Brad
dispatch Mr. Villone to the hinterlands… Bradley has earned his spot over and over again. Or trade Brad… but I think we are going to need him later this season. I am enjoying the success we’ve had so far this season, but is it real and sustainable? I am afraid it might not be… so keep a reliable arm in the pen…
When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?
by RosevilleRedbird on Apr 16, 2008 7:22 PM EDT 0 recs
There won't be a decision...
Pineiro is still hurt/terrible.
by guayzimi on Apr 16, 2008 7:28 PM EDT 0 recs
if they get rid of Puppy Kicker
then there’s not telling what i’ll do.
Villone should be the one to high tail it to Memphis.
every time i think Tony’s turned the corner when it comes to the Cards getting younger & better, he reminds me he’s never going to change by dropping clues like this.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Apr 16, 2008 7:28 PM EDT 0 recs
huh?
is 23 years old not considered young to you? McClellan is a ROOKIE and TLR is giving him is full support.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
by stltrav09 on
Apr 16, 2008 7:30 PM EDT
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and
IF he chooses to send down Thompson over Villone, it has NOTHING to with age. It’s because he feels we need a 2nd lefty in the pen.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
by stltrav09 on
Apr 16, 2008 7:31 PM EDT
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Come on man...
it’s Brad Thompson. He’s a decent long man. He’s got options. It’s ok to send him down til Pineiro goes back on the DL.
by guayzimi on
Apr 16, 2008 7:34 PM EDT
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Brad Thompson and options
I wrote in the last thread that I didn’t think Thompson had an option left, but was wrong. We didn’t use on on him last year, so he’s got one left.
It’s not the worst thing that could happen, and Memphis will need another starter since Rogers blew his elbow out, so he’ll get plenty of innings.
by liam on
Apr 16, 2008 7:40 PM EDT
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Brad's options
So in 2005, Brad was called up on May 5, and stayed with the Cardinals the rest of the season.
In both 2006 and 2007 he was “optioned” to Memphis. (Multiple times in 2006, Aug 24 in 2007)
Transactions from the following:
http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/players/Brad_Thompson/
http://fantasybaseball.usatoday.com/content/player_news.asp?sport=MLB&;id=276&line=229960
I’m a little confused about the exact rules of options, but I guess 2005 doesn’t count, but 2006 and 2007 counted for two of his three options. Therefore, he still has one option year left?
FWIW, he wasn’t listed on the out-of-options list at MLB Trade Rumors
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/02/out-of-options.html
If he has an option left, he is the logical choice to send back to Memphis when Springer comes back. Let Reyes handle any long relief efforts, and Springer gets 7th inning and blowout work. Springer seems like a better 1-inning reliever than Thompson.
by djsmokyc on
Apr 16, 2008 7:57 PM EDT
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+1
This is a decision that is probably going to be all about options. Incidentally, that’s a pretty nice problem to have.
by StanTheManFan on
Apr 16, 2008 8:18 PM EDT
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in case you all can't tell
some people have said i have an “unnatural” fascination with one Brad Thompson.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on
Apr 16, 2008 8:23 PM EDT
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In 2007
I thought he hadn’t been optioned down, but that his time in the minor leagues was rehab that wouldn’t count as an option. That was false.
It’s like you say, in 2005 he was added to the 40-man roster at the time of his call-up and stayed with the team all year, so he didn’t burn an option then.
by liam on
Apr 16, 2008 8:24 PM EDT
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meh.
someone’s got to go down, it’s a shame it has to be thompson but he’s the most obvious choice right now.
mcclellan: has been given tlr support
reyes: obviously found his home for now. they’d be stupid to send him down.
villone: lefty specialist. can’t really mess with him until TJ comes back.
that leaves thompson. he’s just the odd man out.
by stlcardinalsfang on Apr 16, 2008 7:37 PM EDT 0 recs
When I read the
“follow him anywhere” quote (which was actually “Where he goes, I’ll go with him” ), I read it as Tony putting his foot down on Reyes, not Thompson. Don’t know how much of Strauss’ analysis about Reyes/Thompson is from what he’s hearing from Tony and Dave, and how much is his own analysis of the situation.
In the long run if Clement and Mulder come back healthy, and Johnson is still on the shelf, they will probably both end up in AAA. Tony will keep two lefties, and something has got to give.
by k randolph on Apr 16, 2008 7:43 PM EDT 0 recs
Why do we still talk about Clement?
In my mind, he is worse off than Mulder.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 16, 2008 7:46 PM EDT
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then why did we bother to get him?
Moz just being overly cautious with the injury situation?
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 8:09 PM EDT
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They believed he was ready to start the season
he clearly was not and now is even FURTHER behind Mulder when it comes to rehab.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 16, 2008 8:11 PM EDT
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wow
must be nice to make the big bucks not being ready to rock
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 11:14 PM EDT
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lineups tonight
Looks like:
Weeks 2B
Gross CF
Braun LF
Fielder 1B
Hall 3B
Hart RF
Hardy SS
Villanueva P
Kendall C
Schumaker RF
Duncan LF
Pujols 1B
Ankiel CF
Glaus 3B
Molina C
Kennedy 2B
Wainwright P
Izturis SS
stlfan
PS – if someone else has been doing this whenever we win, then feel free to delete this post! I don’t want to ruin any luck we might have going…
by stlfan on Apr 16, 2008 7:44 PM EDT 0 recs
I wish we had a hitter like Hardy batting
7th for us.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 16, 2008 7:47 PM EDT
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other than 1b and C
i think I’d rather have every position player on the Brewers. Ankiel could persuade me to keep him perhaps.
by FunkeeC on
Apr 16, 2008 7:49 PM EDT
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Their hitting is great
But I’d like to see some of their defensive metrics. I guess it can’t be worse than last year’s team, but I bet it’s a long way from the Cards’.
by Midwestside on
Apr 16, 2008 7:51 PM EDT
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true
though when Cameron comes back, he will help their D (outfield anyway)
by FunkeeC on
Apr 16, 2008 7:53 PM EDT
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it ain't great
so far this year
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 8:09 PM EDT
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Atleast our lineup can hit RHP
knock on wood.
And for as much a butcher he is in LF, our LF atleast knows how to take a walk too.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 16, 2008 7:55 PM EDT
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But we have team chemistry
every one keeps saying how everybody in the clubhouse is meshing together. that usually equals good things
Call an ambulance, La Russa's about to kick some ass.
by emrfg8 on
Apr 16, 2008 7:56 PM EDT
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Team chemistry
is severely underrated
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 8:10 PM EDT
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Thats why you don't just sign big name free agents
...like the cubs
Call an ambulance, La Russa's about to kick some ass.
by emrfg8 on
Apr 16, 2008 8:19 PM EDT
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Or the Red Sox signing...their team.
Or the D-Backs signing Randy. Or the Yankees signings from ‘97-00. Those things don’t work out.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on
Apr 16, 2008 8:30 PM EDT
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yeah, remember when we had a team that was picked to go all the way and didn’t?
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 8:47 PM EDT
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Let me amend your comment
That’s why you don’t just sign big name free agents to 8-year contracts (cough Soriano cough)
Even the contracts of Big Z, Ramirez, D-Lee all look like they could be painful toward the end of it.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on
Apr 16, 2008 8:49 PM EDT
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I'd argue he should hit 7th in this lineup
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on
Apr 16, 2008 7:52 PM EDT
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i forgot which player it was
but that number 42 was everywhere last night
i take your signatures and use them as away messages
by ihavebadknees on
Apr 16, 2008 8:01 PM EDT
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It has to be a serious competition between
FSN Midwest and FSN Pittsburgh as to who has the most ‘local access’ field to their sports network.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 16, 2008 8:01 PM EDT 0 recs
Gotta love their opening promo praising the bullpen
“Kyle McClellan….Ryan Franklin….Jason Isringhausen”
Izzy didn’t even pitch last night. Sheesh.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 16, 2008 8:02 PM EDT
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why not
send piniero down and let him get some starts in to get ready to come back up
by huts04 on Apr 16, 2008 8:03 PM EDT 0 recs
What is to say he won't be ready
for his next start this weekend?
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 16, 2008 8:08 PM EDT
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im sayin
just in case. missing one good start of his wouldnt be a big deal, but another bad one could be. then if he does well we bring him up and then send down someone
by huts04 on
Apr 16, 2008 8:13 PM EDT
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Can you even send Pineiro down?
I don’t think that is even possible.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 16, 2008 8:16 PM EDT
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Of course Brian Barton can sign autographs
it’s not like he’s got a regular job, anyways.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on Apr 16, 2008 8:10 PM EDT 0 recs
heh
“I just got an autograph from an aerospace engineer!”
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 8:11 PM EDT
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Actually, it's probably more like
“Hey, I just got Manny Ramirez’s autograph!!!”
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 16, 2008 8:12 PM EDT
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yeah
except that we’re talking about St. Louis fans!
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 8:12 PM EDT
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hey Hardcore
after the game, or now if you show choose, listen to this interview Brian did this morning. it’s pretty good stuff.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on
Apr 16, 2008 8:27 PM EDT
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4 Guys I like Thompson more than
Villone, Wellemeyer, Lohse, and Pineiro. Unfortunately, I don’t think we can send any of them down to AAA (maybe Villone, he’d probably clear waivers anyway), so it will have to be Thompson. Lohse is going to regress, probably sooner rather than later, and Wellemeyer has given up 5 (!) homeruns this season, and has never shown he can keep his walk rate down. None of them have ever shown they can be anything more than a league average pitcher. I haven’t researched it to thoroughly, but not one of them gets ground balls at the rates that Thompson does, and no one gives up homeruns at a lower rate than Thompson (Lohse is the only one with a lower HR/FB ratio, but he’s the only one, and as was mentioned, they all give up more flies than Thompson). If Brad can keep up this strikeout rate, he would be a very, very good starter. Yes, his increased K rate (8.6) comes with an inflated walk rate as well (5.0), but even if both of those come down by 2 or so, he would still be a better option than either Lohse, Pineiro, or Wellemeyer. Oh, and Villone, well, he’ll stick around cuz of LaRussa’s bullpen fetishes, but he should probably be gone before anyone. No explanation should be necessary.
by Midwestside on Apr 16, 2008 8:11 PM EDT 0 recs
You like Thompson more than Lohse?
Do tell…
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 16, 2008 8:11 PM EDT
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yeah
that’s a bit of a stretch. I do like Thompson more than Villone and Piniero though.
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 8:13 PM EDT
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I think people are evaluating Pineiro on one start
he posted a 3.96 ERA last year as a starter for the Cardinals with a 4:1 K:BB ratio. That was alot better than Thompson’s 4.66 ERA with a 1:1 K:BB ratio.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on
Apr 16, 2008 8:15 PM EDT
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One game?
The guy hasn’t been any good since 2003.
by guayzimi on
Apr 16, 2008 8:20 PM EDT
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Lohse has been good so far
But he’s only struck out 7 and walked 5 this year in 17 innings. He isn’t this good, he’s been very lucky. 15 hits, 5 walks, and only 2 runs? He’s kept the ball in the ball park, give him credit for that, but most of it has been luck. His career ERA+ is 96. He’s gonna come back to earth. His FIP is 3.14, and his xFIP is 4.55. Unless you think Dave has breathed new life into him, there is no reason to think he will outperform Brad. Brad did, after all, almost break a scoreless innings streak. He’s been a great starter before, and I think he will be in the majors.
by Midwestside on
Apr 16, 2008 8:26 PM EDT
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I like him to
and at the end of last year I would have called him our second best starter.
by TheBirds on Apr 16, 2008 8:17 PM EDT 0 recs
ok, ya got me. I just hope pin will pick up where he left off last year. Before that, he wasn’t that great right?
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 16, 2008 8:18 PM EDT 0 recs
well
he had a very good season once, then had injuries i think.
by TheBirds on
Apr 16, 2008 8:19 PM EDT
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I lied
He was 14-7 with a 3.24 era in 28 starts. We’re talking about 02-03 though.
by TheBirds on
Apr 16, 2008 8:24 PM EDT
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again...
this is a nice problem we have.
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 8:25 PM EDT
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Sha-zam!
Wainwright’s popping the glove tonight!
I can only think of one word for the new VEB - scrumtralescent.
by rockin the red on Apr 16, 2008 8:19 PM EDT 0 recs
nice, wainer has 2Ks already!
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 16, 2008 8:20 PM EDT 0 recs
FSN gun is still off
Wainer is bringing it 92-94 so far
by Smokin Turkeys on Apr 16, 2008 8:21 PM EDT 0 recs
nice start wagon
i take your signatures and use them as away messages
by ihavebadknees on Apr 16, 2008 8:22 PM EDT 0 recs
Wainwright is finally off to a good start to a game.
First game he’s just really settled in from the get go.
by TheBirds on Apr 16, 2008 8:22 PM EDT 0 recs
I remember he always had a slow start last year.
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Apr 16, 2008 8:23 PM EDT 0 recs
18
12 for strikes
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
by stltrav09 on
Apr 16, 2008 8:26 PM EDT
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I think it was
about 18?
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 8:25 PM EDT
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what just happened
there? I called it, dammit
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Apr 16, 2008 8:47 PM EDT
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