OK, we need a 2Ber that can hit. What do we do about it?
Well, the first thing we could do is nothing. Just waiting for Ryan and maybe Hoff is the first choice. Hoff is off to a good start, but I am far from convinced that he is the long term solution at 2B. Ryan might be more of a solution but, is he really the guy we want to see starting at 2B for the next several years? So we wait Ryan comes off the DL, and Hoff continues to hit at Memphis and maybe we have a solution.
The other offensive whole is Duncan. I personally have never been a big fan. So we wait. Maybe he comes around, but if he doesn't who would want him? Does Duncan have options? At the end of spring training I thought Duncan should go on the DL then do a re-hab stint and make room for Mather. Joe is off to a great start and I think it would be nice to switch him and Chris. I thought that Schu would have to be moved to make room for Rasmus, but now I think it is Duncan.
So we wait and fill in from AAA. Do the Cards move Kennedy, Miles and Duncan and replace them with Ryan, Hoff, and Mather? The second half outfield five would be Schu, Rasmus, Rick, Barton, and Ludwick. The infield would look like this. Glaus, Iz2, Ryan, and Albert with Mather and Hoff on the bench. Mather will need to get some starts at 3B in Memphis. So what happens to the aforementioned players? Who Cares!? Sorry that is a little harsh, but maybe we can get something for Duncan.
The other option is to make a trade for a 2Ber that can play now and hold the position for several years. I would want a can't miss player not a prospect. Wanting is one thing acquiring is another. There will be teams looking for pitching help. We just need to find one that has a 2Ber that we want. I am thinking of a guy like Aaron Hill of the Blue Jays or Chin Hu from LA. A sincere question is can we get a player like that? Can Reyes or any of the pitching surplus combined with Duncan get a can't miss second baseman? Any thoughts?
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47 comments
Comments
Let's give AK a month or so
before we write him off. This is the same Adam Kennedy that was a productive hitter for the Angels and maybe he can settle in during his 2nd season in the NL.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
by stltrav09 on Apr 12, 2008 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And if a month or two later he's still hit 220ish
bench him or DFA him and play Brendan!
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
by stltrav09 on Apr 12, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your infeld proposal
does not list Miles. It will probably take another power ply by MO to get him off the roster.
by ridgesee on Apr 12, 2008 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No it doesn't
I guess the best thing would be to have Hoff play second and have Ryan on the bench. Ryan can spell all the infield positions. If Duncan was moved with some of the pitching surplus then Mather gets the call to. I had a fondness for Miles for a long time. I have stuck for him on the blog. When the Cards resigned him I felt that they have had to because of the lost of Speeze. I certainly would have no problem with him being moved along.
by nybirdfan on Apr 12, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also have
stuck up for miles, like you I developed a fondness for the"little feller." and it don't bother me any to keep him around. I stated what I did because I think La Russa has developed a fondess too but we both know that the time will come that it will be in the Cards best interest to let him go like Taguchi, who I also liked. Miles might not have much trade value but some team would certainly pick him up: plays SS, 2nd base, looking better defensively this year, switch hits....hey, lets keep him.
Hmmm, I bet nobody has ever defended Miles this much on this blog....count 'em, over a hundred words.
by ridgesee on Apr 12, 2008 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rewriting history
Miles was resigned (12/12/07) before the Spezio drunk driving/fleeing the sceen/assault thing happened (12/31/07).
by k randolph on Apr 13, 2008 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right
Boy it is funny how the mind works. I guess I falsely built in a excuse for resigning Miles! Thanks for bringing be back to reality.
by nybirdfan on Apr 13, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's cheap though
I have no issues what-so-ever keeping Miles at his price, I have all kinds of issues having Kennedy at 5 times what Miles is making.
by AdjustedExpectations on Apr 14, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hop in the...
...Delorean and re-sign Belli.
Or beat the Cubbies to punch on Brian Roberts (if we don't have to overpay). Instant No. 2 hole with OPS skills to pay the bills.
As an aside, how does preventing the Cubbies from getting affect his value to the Cards?
Hombres verdaderos slide hard.
by bgh on Apr 12, 2008 12:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But....
The very nature of trying to beat the Cubs to the punch on Brian Roberts means we would HAVE to overpay.
They're already asking for Cedeno, Gallagher and a third player from the Cubs. I don't think it's worth it to outbid that for a 30-year-old 2nd baseman. Mozeliak's done a good job of making this team younger, I say ride this out a little longer. Wait to see what we get out of AK and if he's struggling still, then we try to go with Hoff and Ryan.
by mtalken on Apr 12, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Therein lies the proverbial rub
Does having him not on the Cubs justify the higher price is all I was asking?
I agree with your assessment of Mo. However, I suspect that, instead of going with Hoff and Ryan, TLR will go Miles and his grit.
by bgh on Apr 12, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I vote
Jarrett Hoffpauir for our Second baseman. He had a .400 obp last year. He will give us 10 Homers a year. Which is more then Kennedy has hit in the last 3 years combined. I don't think he will be able to, or get the chance to, take the job this year but I hope by the All-star break he can be a bench player.
by Big Phil on Apr 12, 2008 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think this is a great topic.
I don't know that the Cards have enough in-house talent to solve the long term problem at either 2B or SS. I would like to Ryan and Hoffpauir at the major league level get a regular shot for maybe an half of a season. Maybe Hoffpauir is the real deal. I don't have time soon to research what might be available on the trade market, but I think the Cards are definitely going to have options over the next 3 months. I know everybody is down on Duncan, but I still think that when he comes around he is the best trade chip we have. I think the combination of surplus starting pitching and OFs will put Mo in a position of strength to find what the Cards need. It sounds like the Orioles are over-valueing Roberts, but I'm sure there are some options out there that would provide both offense and defense from those positions.
by etp_stl on Apr 12, 2008 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
having 9 or so....
below average starting pitchers doesnt mean you have a surplus that is worth anything to anyone else...the only one that anyone would possibly want would be Reyes, and even he wont get you anything close to a good mlb ready prospect
by billybeingbilly on Apr 14, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That isn't accurate.
They will also have Kyle Lohse, who will be a free agent at the end of the year. There will be teams in need of a pitcher of his caliber making a push for the playoffs. The Cards will probably not still have a reasonable chance to contend by that point (I hope they prove me wrong), and it will make sense to deal him. The fact is that we don't yet know what the Cards have in Clement or Mulder. Pineiro, Thompson, and Wellemeyer made not be considered above average starting pitching, but they would certainly strengthen the bullpen of a team like the Tigers. In addition, they will be able to package the pitching with a solid, if not spectacular, major league OF. There is also now potential in the minors where there are several good young arms and few MIF prospects.
by etp_stl on Apr 14, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need more offense from 2nd base for sure.
I love Brian Roberts but I personally don't believe he's "really" available-only IF the O's can pull a fleece, a big time fleece, do I believe they will trade him. Now, what about the A's Mark Ellis? He's a fine all around 2nd baseman. If Mr. Beane is dealing a position player does he play fair?
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Apr 12, 2008 1:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the defense up the middle so far...
As long as they keep flashing the leather I would give them a chance to put up some better offensive numbers.
If not...
Anybody remember my suggestion about trying Barton at 2B ?
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on Apr 12, 2008 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
0 for 8, 3 Ks
In the last two games he played, AK is 0-8 with 3ks, outside of that the guy has done well. He's getting on base much better than last year, and he's hitting the ball at people (which means it’s only a matter of time before then start getting though). The 3ks are the only ones he has this season so far. Give him time. Plus with Ryan coming off DL and Miles still getting playing time, the keystone wouldn't be that great but it will be serviceable. The team won in 2006 with a platoon at 2B with Luna, Miles and later Belliard. We are 11 or so games in to the season, and in first place, it's a little too soon to be voting people off the island.
by Stan and Slaughter on Apr 12, 2008 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You are right. Too early to actually vote anyone off of the island.
Mr. Kennedy has looked much better in the field and at the plate. But 2nd baseman in general, as a group, do not age well. I don't expect he'll ever be anything more than replacement level. If there's a chance to get someone better, we should jump on it.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Apr 12, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hoffpauir deserves a shot
...just a bit outside....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Apr 12, 2008 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hoffpauir
I vote Hoffpauir. The cost of an upgrade at 2B with an established player is just too high to absorb without first giving a shot to our inhouse option. Give it a month and, if Kennedy continues the slide, we dump him and eat salary. A sleeper option is Brian Barden down at Memphis (currently playing SS). In 39 ABs he has put up 883 OPS. Too small of a sample but would keep an eye on him as the season goes along.
by jjray on Apr 12, 2008 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ellis
MLBtraderumors.com suggested that the cards could pursue Ellis. He's currently posting the 3rd highest OPS amongst regular second basemen who "qualify" according to Yahoo stats at an .869 clip. He'll turn 30 this year, I think. Guess who is putting up the second highest qualifying OPS? Grudzie! Also to watch is Kendrick. He could break out in a big way this year.
I don't think it would be out of the question for Hoff or Ryan to put up .725-.750 OPS. They would be an upgrade over Miles/Kennedy for sure.
"The steak may be tough, but you can always slide your fork through the gravy."
by KennyWang on Apr 12, 2008 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Miles
You'll need a swat team to pry Miles away from TLR. It's like the line Chuck Heston used to give at the NRA meetings when he would hold up his riffle and exclaim "from my cold dead hands." Seriously though, JMo should just promise TLR to give Miles a job as an assistant coach so he doesn't c@ck block middle infield for another decade.
by jjray on Apr 12, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grudz is the player who never dies.
Year in, year out, solid production in the field and at the plate.
And yes, I would prefer Hoffpauir, but I do think Ellis would be more attainable than Roberts. I'm just afraid because everytime we bring in a second baseman, it turns out to be the wrong one. If we use Hoffpauir, if he doesn't work out , we just send him back or send him out.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Apr 12, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Thought !
jills, why didn't I think of that. I say let's Holler on down to Memphis and say "come on up" just like Bob Barker. For certain Hoffpauir's Price is Right.
by ridgesee on Apr 12, 2008 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's sad, but true.
Second base has been the forgotten step child or what I like to call the black hole. They let go guys they should have kept, they bring in guys they think are going to work, and they never quite seem to. If you don't want the guy on the farm, go hire a consultant to find a suitable 2nd baseman. They might have a better chance getting someone who will work out.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Apr 12, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me ...
that the Cards upper management have viewed the MI, and 2B specifically, as a place to save money. They just weren't going to spend money on that position, and they had a decent run of luck with Womack, Grudzelaniek, and Belliard. Then, the Spivey, Miles, and Kennedy era started. Ironically, Kennedy is the first one they decided to spend money on; and I don't see him as any kind of game-changer there. I'm not basing that just on last season, but his stats say that even when he was at his best he was merely average.
I would like to see the team start stockpiling some talent at the IF positions. I can forgive them, to some extent, for not having any decent 3B prospects given that they thought that spot would be tied up for a while with Rolen. There really is no excuse for why the Cards have been so bereft at the MIF positions inhouse. I would like to see what Hoffpauir can do. I don't think Ryan is probably going to be the answer.
by etp_stl on Apr 13, 2008 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And don't forget that the Angels chose to let him walk.
That tells you all you need to know about his career going forward.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Apr 13, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because a team doesn't resign a player
(when they have a top prospect coming up at the same position: Howie Kendrick), that tells you all you need to know about the player they let go? C'mon Jill, that's just outright false -- players walk all the time.
by azruavatar on Apr 13, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They do. You are right. They let players walk. Players that they feel don't have enough left to give.
They have new management now, but honestly, if they don't want someone back I would take a good, hard, look at the reason why. They certainly could of kept him to help Kendrick transition and as a back up. They chose not to. They have proven they know how to evaluate talent........all I'm saying is that I'd be careful about signing a former Angel.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Apr 13, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Angels handed Torii Hunter
an 90M contract last year and Gary Matthews a huge contract just a year before that. To imply that they are experts at evaluating talent is questionable.
Kennedy signed at what was perceived to be below market rates for 2B. I can't think of a single person who slammed the deal when it happened. Now that it's going downhill there's a lot of hindsight and pointing of fingers going on.
The Cardinals should be more concerned with deciding whether or not Kennedy is simply a sunk cost at this point with Ryan and Hoffpauir both waiting on the sidelines. If they don't think Kennedy is going to bounce back, then they should simply release him -- contact or no contract. They can absorb the 5M dollar loss over this year and next and plug in one of their cost controlled minimum.
by azruavatar on Apr 13, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't like the deal at the time...
No one was really after him and we gave him 3 years...and this came a year after they signed Juan Encarnacion and Braden Looper to 3 year deals also. It just seemed to be more money invested in mediocrity. Not to mention the fact they couldv'e just resigned Grudz after '05. Grudz is still churning out .300 batting averages and Gold Glove defense. He's made a total of 10 errors since he left saint louis.
"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Apr 13, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That said...
the cards might night win in '06 if it wasn't for Belly's play in S.D.
"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Apr 13, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
night = not
"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Apr 13, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, there is a lot of questions about who they bring in through free agency.
But I don't question them about who they let go. They know when to cut ties with a player, and they are almost always right.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Apr 13, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna disagree with you a little bit here.
Teams make that decision for more reasons than just because they think the player is spent. They may have considered another need more pressing for their free agent dollars, and having Kendrick as a lower cost alternative made the decision easier. They may have decided that the difference was close enough that having control of the rights of Kendrick for a longer period was a better business decision.
That same team let Eckstein go for nothing. I do consider Cabrera to have been an improvement, but I don't think Eckstein's career was over. The Angels also traded away Edmonds just coming into his prime for a bad starting pitcher coming off of a career year, and this same average 2B prospect with a vicious uppercut swing. I wouldn't say they are omniscient in the player evaluation department.
by etp_stl on Apr 13, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
etp, you disagree with me?
I'm crushed........just kidding. You know, I'm probably wrong sometimes. I don't know.....they had a guy name Garrett Anderson in the wings, and it's hard to believe, I know, but they didn't like Jimmy Ballgame"s flashy ways. Let's see now Cabrera/Eckstein, Cabrere/Eckstein.....hmm, I think they made the right decision. They got Kennedy while he was likely to get better; we got him when he was likely to get worse.
Okay, they are not omniscient (great word, by the way) in the player evaluation department.......
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Apr 13, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't disagree with
the Eckstein/Cabrera choice. Now, of course, they didn't have Cabrera in hand when they let Eckstein go. And, I was answering your point more in that you implied that if the Angels don't want him duck him like the plague. We've received some valuable players that were released from the Angels. (Edmonds, Eckstein, Spiezo, Percival). Kennedy has really been the only player we got from them that hasn't contributed, so far.
I didn't mean to break your spirit by disagreeing (Ha Ha). I agree that Garrett Anderson thing worked out OK for them, but wasn't it Erstad that took over in CF after Jimmy left? It seems to me they also let Jimmy go because they said he'd never be a cornerstone player. I think the '06 club would see that one a little differently. Thanks for the praise on the word choice. Keep keeping me in check.
by etp_stl on Apr 13, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct
Erstad took over in CF after Edmonds was traded. Anderson filled in at CF, but primarily played LF.
Personally, I think we got hosed on that call.
by TurdFerguson on Apr 14, 2008 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fernando
Don't forget Vina...he was relatively cheap at 4 years and 16.3 M...he was a nice lead off hitter for 3 of those seasons. He won 2 gold gloves. Everyone forgets, but this is one of Jocketty's finer heists. Juan Acevedo, Eliezar Alfonzo, and Matt Parker for Vina.
"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Apr 13, 2008 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blanton / Ellis package?
Heh? heh?
Don't take that too seriously, but I wouldn't mind it.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Apr 13, 2008 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok then
Let's say Hoff continues to hit and gets a shot Ryan and Miles remain back ups. Kennedy gets DFA'd? We still have a surplus of pitchers, but no imediate need at the major league level. So do we trade the pitchers for the best available prospects and build the farm?
Except for Duncan I like the outfield, and I think Iz2 is here for the rest of the year at least. If Hoff fills the need at 2B what else to we need?
by nybirdfan on Apr 12, 2008 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hoff is like rasmus, if he comes up to the big leagues he's going to be a starter, not a bench player. He's too good of a hitter to be off the bench.
We have kennedy for this year and next year, and i know the cards probably have no desire to get rid of him while he takes a decent sized chuck from the payroll.
Unless the cards trade duncan, he's not going anywhere, he's cheap and he's a 30-hr outfielder that can fill in at first for pujols if he needs a day off.
I'd say the cards can easily trade duncan if a team needs a 1st baseman, but how many teams don't have a good hitting 1st baseman?
Cardwash - Cardinal, Washington fan (Washington???? Yeah, I know)
by cardwash on Apr 12, 2008 8:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd really like us to do this . . .
since we're obviously going to run out of starting pitcher spaces, it'd be really nice to see us trade a few of these mediocre somewhat old pitchers away (Looper, etc.) for some SS and 2B prospects. They don't even need to be top of the line, but I feel that if we could establish a surplus of prospects at 2B and SS, we may have the chance of developing a Tulowitzki or a Howie Kendrick. Then we won't have to worry about this anymore!
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Apr 13, 2008 3:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Loop
I've advocated shipping Looper before. He's more of a proven commodity than some of our other guys like Wellemeyer, Clement/Mulder. Plus, a bunch of teams could use a solid middle relief/swing pitcher like Looper. Give me a second base prospect for Looper, por favor.
"The steak may be tough, but you can always slide your fork through the gravy."
by KennyWang on Apr 13, 2008 10:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Second base
To answer your question in the main title: it's simple, promote Jarrett Hoffpauir. He's batting .371/.429/.457 in 35 AB (although it needs to be mentioned that he has an incredibly unsustainable .406 BABIP). His walk rate and K rate have stayed consistent at every level of the minors, and he already had a successful stint at Triple-A last year. Promoting Hoffpauir would not only be promoting from within, but it would also be sticking with the new direction of the franchise.
I can only think of one word for the new VEB - scrumtralescent.
by rockin the red on Apr 14, 2008 7:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs



















