Duncan/Thompson for Sanchez/Velez?
by RayMonD! on Apr 10, 2008 1:49 PM EDT
Email
PrintYou guys may think I'm crazy here but why don't we make a deal before San Fran solves their 1st base problem. They want a left-handed first basemen, and would need a pitcher to take Sanchez' spot in the rotation. They are full of young pitching and I have adored Sanchez for a couple of years now. He has Liriano type stuff and is waiting to break out. Eugenio Velez appears raw, but his skill set is much like that of the enigmatic Jose Reyes before he put it all together. I know giving up Dunc is a lot but with the 09 rotation either very expensive or very much up in the air wouldn't Sanchez alone be worth it?
35 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
They would be foolish
to take that one. Its hard to believe theres a major league team that dumb in the operational sense. They are rebuilding too, and they cant afford to get it all in free agents/trades. They have to know theyre going to be terrible so why give away anything valuable?
HEEE HEHEHE BIG BOY- mike shannon
Us Giants' fans tend to think that Sabean is that dumb in the operational sense, although we could be wrong since he has mostly shown some restraint this year in an effort to rebuild.
by paboperfecto on Apr 10, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Sabean has only made two really dumb moves recently...
Trading Liriano and Nathan for AJ Pierzinski (ouch) and signing Barry Zito. Other than that, he's essentially been keeping the lights on for Bonds over the years. Nevertheless, I see him in the Walt Jocketty mold - i.e. the advantages that he used to have in the market just aren't there any more, and it's probably time for someone fresh to take over.
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
The waiting is what is killing us now. It would have been nice to have planned for life after Bonds before getting rid of Bonds and yes, someone fresh would be nice. Right now we're just holding our breath and hoping another Pierzinski trade isn't in the works.
by paboperfecto on Apr 10, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Which trade was worse?
Nathan/Liriano/Bosner for 1 year of Pierzynski?
or Haren/Barton/Calero for 2 years of Mulder? (the decision to extend Mulder should be separate)
I know the Haren trade pains us here, but I think the Pierzynski trade was worse on balance...
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
Being a lot closer to the Giants the Nathan trade hurt (and continues to hurt) a lot more. If Pierzinski had done something worthwhile while he played for us.....
Every game Nathan closes for the Twins is just one more painful reminder of things that could have been (never having to get Benitez as a closer for one).
by paboperfecto on Apr 10, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Get over it!
We lost in the 2004 World Series, so who would your rather have to make another run THE NEXT YEAR. Not 5 years, but the next year. We needed that extra edge for the next year. Lets compare Haren vs. Mulder at the end of 2004:
Haren: 2 years experience, 6-10 record, 4.87 ERA
Mulder: 5 years experience, 81-42 record, 4.36 ERA
Mulder was a career 81-42 when we acquired him. Then went 16-8 in 2005. How was anyone supposed to know he was going to get injured? We weren't trying to rebuild, we were trying to win a World Series. Although doubtful, he could still come back and be a quality pitcher. I think people over-rate Haren to an extent. Not that impressive of numbers.
Even today, Haren has a career winning percentage of .532. Mulder's career win percentage is .632.
The Barton deal sucks, but we'll get over it. One lost prospect isn't the end of the world. Calero is a bullpen guy, who cares really about him.
Welcome back Tony, adios Kip.
Tons of people
were against the Haren deal. To use win loss records as a defense of the deal is.....indefensible.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
playing with fire
You play with fire when you cite win/loss stats on this site.
Why
all these dream trades for Duncan every few days. All the GM's in both leagues have the telephone number of Moseilaik and if any body has any interest in Duncan they know how to get in touch. So far and going back into last offseason I have not seen even a good hint of any yet every time somebody sees a good young prospect he likes here comes a fanpost with a Duncan package trade. enough allready.
chill
This is just a fan blog post - it's not like the guy actually has the GM's ear or anything. He's dreaming and clearly sees Duncan as the most fungible commodity on the team (not that I necessarily agree with him in any aspect of his idea however). In an era of fantasy baseball, it's very much a commonplace activity for fans to think up crazy scenarios exchanging parts of their team for other players they'd really like to see. I'm betting the administration of MLB and MiLB really enjoy talk like this because it means lots of people are paying attention to other farm systems and have great interest in current/future teams.
I realize you may be against his dream idea, but to get upset and tell the person not to post is uncalled for. Simply stop reading fanposts where the subject heading is a suggestion for trade. The trade is obviously not going to happen just because RayMonD! typed it up on the internet someplace (although, it would be funny to speculate the Mulder trade was an idea hatched in a similar manner), so you don't have anything to worry about. So in the meantime, just let people dream their dreams and play fantasy baseball owner in their head. If it makes some small part of their life enjoyable, what's it to you?
I get what you are saying
but its not like ridgesee went all crazy on the poster. The author listed a trade proposal, and he offered his view of not wanting to see another Duncan trade idea Fanpost. That is a legitimate opinion, and one that I share with him.
It does get a bit annoying to see the latest Duncan offer, especially if it is viewed as an absurd one. It seems to me that if Duncan was as hot a commodity around the league as some think he is then he would have been moved already. Besides, we are 9 games into the season; there is probably not going to be a major trade yet. Most teams are trying to see what they have, and who they can and cannot depend on. We are in the same boat, and when it becomes time to have trade discussions, I have no doubt we will be involved in them, attempting to turn some of our bad fit players and excess talent into resources at thinner positions, like the middle infield.
Until then, let's enjoy the ride. There is plenty to talk about in Cardinal nation without a Duncan trade proposal.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
Hey, Raymond
if you really want to piss off ridge, then just tell him that Barry Bonds is a better hitter than Ted Williams. Its a lot of fun!
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
Thank you Cardzfan24
I was a little harsh and you came along and helped, but please don't start no Bonds, Williams argument. I'm surprised you remembered that. Thats been a while back
I just really enjoyed it
because I realized I didn't know how good Teddy Ballgame really was. I am fairly young and I had no reference to how good he was except for some clips and people talking about him. Your convo made me look at his career stats, and it was truly amazing. The man was a force.
That is me going out on a limb, saying Ted Williams is a good hitters
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
If Mo makes that phone call...
how long does it last? What is the over/under before Sabean hangs up?
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
what am i missing
Which Giants player in that trade is better than the cardinals player? It's not like he's proposing getting correia or lincecum or cain. Neither Sanchez or Velez are very good and both are too old to really be considered prospects, given their established levels of performance.
This deal would probably tremendously favor the Giants; Brad Thompson alone for those two players might be a win for them.
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
Agreed.
Sanchez is no better than Brad Thompson right now. Sanchez has more upside, but Brad Thompson is a better bet to be solid #4/#5 who can give you 200 innings.
Duncan is much better than Velez
...just a bit outside....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Apr 10, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure
my point is that the Giants have absolutely zero reason to make any of these trades at this point in the season. I just cannot see any scenario that would make them trade these players with upside for slightly more established players with more service time. It simply does not make sense for the Giants from an organizational standpoint.
I would be thrilled with the deal. It just isn't happening.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
BTW
I actually wouldn't mind the deal, since it would give the Cards a pitcher and a Mi and we give up an OF who is a terrible fit for this team and a swingman who I don't think has any place in the long term plan of this team.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
I agree completely
Velez is 26 and is only now breaking 50 career at bats in the majors. He's not a prospect, the Giants just don't have anyone much better than him.
There hasn't been a Giants' offensive prospect in ten years to make any significant impact on the league, and they've lost tons of their upper level draft picks by signing a parade of old free agents over the years. I would steer clear of any deal that didn't involve Matt Cain. Which is to say, no deal will likely take place.
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
looks like
San Fran needs pitching and they have stated that they want a Left handed 1b. I really don't think Duncan is worth as much as alot of VEB'ers do. My wife uses the word "sucks' when talking about Duncan. I defend is stick but I can defend him in the outfield.
However if a trade possiblity were to rise with the Giants I would be more interested in a middle infield prospect. Is there any interest in this community for a guy like Emmanuel Burriess? Just asking.
Velez
is a MI prospect.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
The one player the Giants have that the Cards could use is
Old, Ancient Omar Visquiel, but he is injured now and I don't the extent of his injury. But if he is healthy he can still play SS in his sleep and his bat is not bad.
He's 41 and signed for two more years at $10 mil total. And injured.
Why again do we need this?
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
He's only signed for that second year if he plays 140 games this year, which is looking less and less likely.
by paboperfecto on Apr 10, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
tradfe
Jonathan Sanchez is infinitely more desirable than Brad Thompson. Eugenio Velez is almost 26. I'd much rather have Nick Noonan or Travis Denker.
Forgot to mention..
Sanchez is a bit of a sleeper who has fallen under the radar. He has great stuff though.. 62 K in 52 IP last year with SF, 166 K in 125 IP back in 05 in A ball. Essentially, he's not a fit for our team. = /
Right now, the Giants system is full of a bunch of decent middle infield prospects.. here's a brief run-down of them
Nick Noonan.. drafted 1st rd. in 07.. polished HS player w/ a lot of speed.. will play 2B as a pro
Eugenio Velez... little power, speedy utility player.
Emmanuel Burriss.. incredible speed, decent hitter, needs to start moving up though.
Charlie Culberson.. 1st rd. sup pick in 07.. speedy high school player without a lot of power.. should stay at SS (see a pattern developing)
Travis Denker.. 5'9 2B with a little pop, good discipline, not a lot of speed. Nice sleeper, probably has the best chance of being successful IMO.
Brian Bocock.. actually moved from A to the MLB this season to replace Omar Vizquel. Has a long way to go hitting wise but is a very solid fielder.
Don't forget the plus of having millions of "Bocock" jokes in any thread, even after they get old. And when he's playing SS and Merkin comes in to pitch....
by paboperfecto on Apr 10, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
As a Giants fan....
I would say no. It's not that Velez and Sanchez are irreplaceable (though they, along with Lincecum and Cain, are the only exciting players on the Giants right now). The issue is that the Giants don't need Duncan, who I like and is at least a servicable LF/1B option, especially if limited to a platoon. They could get like 75% of the same production from Dan Johnson at next to nothing. Plus, by the time the Giants start actually contending again, Duncan will be in his thirties and probably contending.
I fully expected to get reamed for this post, after all it is my first ever VEB fanpost. I guess Ive just been dreaming of a way to slyly snag a MI prospect whose somewhat major league ready and wont cost 4 or 5 players in return. Do we really want to wait for Kozma? Is he worth it? Please tell me we wont be resigning Ceasar. I love all of our outfielders but eventually we have to do something. Thanks for all of your reponses!
Didn't know it was your first RayMond
wouldn't have taken a rip at you like I did and you have recognized a definite problem with a no offense middle infield.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Baltimore’s tradition of fans shouting ‘O!’ during national anthem sparks interleague feud
- Chris Perez follows rant against Cleveland fans with even better rant against Cleveland fans
- Pitcher Clayton Richard gets key pinch single in 13th after coming in 0 for 16
- Livan Hernandez welcomes ball boy to the bigs with shower of sunflower seeds (VIDEO)
- Man beaten by four others in Dodger Stadium parking lot
