New All-Star 2B ?

by Red Blazer on Mar 6, 2008 9:51 AM EST

Just wanted to post an outside the box thought about filling a weak link with a young talented hitter athletic enough to make spectacular plays at 2B. I'm not talking about Hoff, Ryan, or anyone else that might come to mind.

I think the man for the Job is....

Barton.

His noodle arm is a non-issue at second base. He has the athleticism to cover 2B. He is young enough to learn a new position. His bat will play above average at 2B. You put all that together and you have a perrenial All-Star.

Please Mo if your reading this see what you can do about Tony giving the kid a shot at 2B. I know Oquendo can shape Barton into an everyday 2B given the chance.

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I like the idea...

because not only does it fill a need on the diamond, but also in the lineup. From everything I have heard about this kid, his tools seem suited to the leadoff spot. I have no idea what the transition would be like for someone to go from the outfield to 2B, but the kid is smart and he plays ALL of the outfield positions so maybe it isn't all that far fetched.

by DD502DK on Mar 6, 2008 10:10 AM EST 0 recs

whoa, whoa, whoa

do you mean Brian BARDEN (former D-Backs prospect) or Brian BARTON (Rule-V pick)?

sign someone GOOD this time!

by dunc4life on Mar 6, 2008 10:13 AM EST 0 recs

Which brings up a question

Has Barden tried 2nd base?

by sdrone on Mar 6, 2008 1:23 PM EST up 0 recs

Yes

Barden played 2 games at 2B last season. http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bardebr01.shtml

by StLHugo on Mar 6, 2008 2:32 PM EST up 0 recs

Brian Barton rule V pick...

Didn't the Braves do something similar with Kelly Johnson?

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Mar 6, 2008 10:30 AM EST 0 recs

Yeah....

Yeah I believe the Braves did. You know I would be willing to explore that option it would be worth a shot.. I mean Miggy can play 3B after playing the outfield why cant Barton? 2B is an easier position then 3B.

by Calhoun on Mar 6, 2008 11:09 AM EST up 0 recs

Kelly Johnson

KJ was in the minors as a SS for several years, then they moved him to OF when they got Renteria (plus had 2-3 other SS prospects that were looking good). After Marcus Giles imploded and was let go, they tried KJ at 2b and he stuck.
So I see his transition to 2b being MUCH smoother than a potential Barton transition.

by Recon on Mar 6, 2008 11:59 AM EST up 0 recs

forgot to note...

Miggy was a 3b in the FLA minors. They wanted his bat in the majors so they threw him to the OF. Once Lowell was traded, Miggy wanted back at 3b. Although he is brutal there defensively.

by Recon on Mar 6, 2008 12:02 PM EST up 0 recs

2b easier?

2b is easier on the arm, but a harder position to learn... turning DP's, covering 2b on on bunts, relays, pickoffs, steals (coordination w/ the ss). covering 1b on bunts.

the only complexity for 3b is bunts. the rest is pretty straight up.

as far as skills. 3b requires more arm, more quickness, less range than 2b.

I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.

by _pistol_ on Mar 6, 2008 1:06 PM EST up 0 recs

Of course

The guy is an aerospace engineer. I'll bet he can figure it out. :)

jwilson

by taguchi on Mar 6, 2008 3:10 PM EST up 0 recs

That's a great point...

I think he can handle complex situations. In fact it may keep him more active and focused through out the game.

You know the old "he's so intelligent he gets bored easily when he's not challenge thing"

That sort of thing.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Mar 6, 2008 3:16 PM EST up 0 recs

I love it!

Let's do it. What's the worst that could happen? As long as we keep him doing outfield drills as well, the worst that comes out of it are some spring training losses.

It's worked with several players -- I don't see why it couldn't for Barton. We need a second basemen, but definitely don't need another OF.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Mar 6, 2008 9:20 PM EST up 0 recs

Secret Weapon

If anyone can make Barton into a 2B, it's Oquendo.

I was just thinking about 2009 outfield with Duncan, Rasmus and Ankiel. Where would Barton fit? Second base was not what I had in mind, but I like it. And I would really love, if they mature, a Barton-Rasmus 1-2 while maintaining the (potential) power of Duncan and Ankiel.

Barton
Rasmus
Pujols
Duncan
Glaus
Ankiel
Yadi
P
Ryan

1-7 would alternate R-L. Tony would go nutty.

"There's a good possibility we may not be as bad as people think we're going to be."-- La Russa

by birdsonthebat on Mar 6, 2008 11:04 AM EST 0 recs

Keep Barton up this year as a bench player.

Use him as a fourth outfielder all the while working on his second base fielding with Oquendo. Send him to winter ball to play 2B and get some experience. If need be once the rule V stips are up send him to triple a to start next year. When he is ready we got ourselves one hell of a second baseman.

If they keep him in the outfield and his arm is a problem he will just bounce around the league as a 4th and 5th outfielder till his legs go and then he is done.

This would be good for the ball club and good for Barton.

Mo call Tony and make it happen.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Mar 6, 2008 12:08 PM EST 0 recs

Lateral movement

How is his lateral movement with that balky knee of his?

by RedbirdRay on Mar 6, 2008 12:12 PM EST 0 recs

Not a bad idea

Blazer, I tend to think that sometimes you get a little overly excited with your ideating (see anything combining you and Miguel Cabrera)...but this one isn't a bad idea at all...Why the hell not? is what I say. He'd definitely get get on base more frequently than Kennedy/Miles/Izturis/Ryan, and he couldn't be too bad defensively, could he? I mean, I'm sure he'd be at least as good as Jorge Cantu or something.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Mar 6, 2008 12:21 PM EST 0 recs

I would think 2B

would be easier on the knee. Anyone know if this is true?

Once Detroit locks up Miggy I may have one last melt down

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Mar 6, 2008 12:27 PM EST 0 recs

2B

In my opinion Barton could not play 2B unless he has some history of playing infield. He is 26 years old and it is pretty tough for a 26 year old to just pick up and play a position they have never played in their life. I don't care if he even plays the whole season in the minors at 2B which he can't since he has to be on the roster. He will get no chance to lear 2B.

I just think it's not going to ever happen.

2B would be harder on the knee as there are a lot more start/stop moves required at that position. You have to back up a lot of plays, and you have to be able to go very hard in one direction, stop, plant, push, and throw. Also you have to crouch down into a ready position for every pitch. Watch the outfielders they do "get ready" but they don't get the same knee bend as infielders.

I just think it's not a likely thing.

by ICbirdfan on Mar 6, 2008 12:51 PM EST up 0 recs

I agree IC it's a long shot but

there is always an exception to the rule.

All I'm saying is stick him at 2B and see what he looks like...

It could even be a simulated game.

I would rather try and fail than to not try at all.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Mar 6, 2008 12:59 PM EST up 0 recs

Red Blazer

I agree with you Blazer! I think it's always worth a shot to see if a guy can play another position. Heck you have nothing to lose if barton plays 2B in a split squad game. Heck didn't Albert and So play 2B last year in the spring for an inning or two.

It is worth while to see what position guys can handle as you never know.

I just think its tough if Barton has never played infield before. Heck he seems athletic, so maybe it would be a matter of simple reps and learning the footwork.

Your idea is by no means stupid Red Blazer. I call it thinking out of the box and seeing what ya got!

by ICbirdfan on Mar 6, 2008 1:20 PM EST up 0 recs

Sure

I guess it would be easy on the knee until Adam Dunn or some other freight train comes barrelling in to break up a DP. The twisting, turning, jumping, and inevitable knocking around might not be so helpful.

by flynn on Mar 6, 2008 12:52 PM EST up 0 recs

RULE 5

I'm not the foremost expert on this, but your idea concedes putting Barton on the 25 man roster as a 2B/Utility OF meaning he'd take the place Speizio held. he can't be optioned to AAA without first being offered back to Cleveland for 25K. That's a big gamble in my opinion, as Barton has shown strong plate skills and running ability so far this spring. That also would mean B. RYAN is most likely off the 25 man roster, and personally, I think he's a better all around utility as he is a better option at 3B than Miles and his 65 mph fastball.

"No regrets, that's my motto. That, and everyone wang chung tonight."

by cardsfansince1982 on Mar 6, 2008 1:44 PM EST 0 recs

Ryan stays put...

Sign Juan Gonzalez to a minor league deal and let him work off some rust in AAA.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Mar 6, 2008 2:57 PM EST up 0 recs

Judging from this spring training so far

there isn't much rust for Juan Gone to work off, at least offensively

by Valatan on Mar 6, 2008 9:34 PM EST up 0 recs

The myth of Oquendo

much like the myth of Dave Duncan. Not every pitcher is going to turn to gold under Duncan and not every player is going to become a passable fielder under Oquendo.

If the Cardinals want a right handed bat at 2B just use Hoffpauir. We're short of RH bats in the OF right now, moving Barton doesn't make sense to me.

by azruavatar on Mar 6, 2008 2:09 PM EST 0 recs

Agreed

Every time I look at Hoff's PECOTA page and then see that he can't even get one spring training start my blood pressure spikes a bit.

by mikedallas23 on Mar 6, 2008 2:26 PM EST up 0 recs

What myth are you gonna take away from me next?

Amaury Marti?

Jose Oquendo once taught a field mouse to turn double plays with a glove weaved from the hairs of his face and shoes carved from his large toe nails.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Mar 6, 2008 3:22 PM EST up 0 recs

Okay, I got your answer

I'm a senior in High School and am the 2nd basemen for my team. I do think that it would be a tougher position to learn if you grew up in the outfield. There are many things which have already been stated (Covering bunts, steals, outfield relays, turning double plays, etc) that would be difficult to pick up easily as an outfielder.

Last year, I made the opposite switch, learning the CF position as our starter went down, but that is different. In the Outfield, and I'm not by any means saying its easy or anything, you track balls and hit cutoffs. Not nearly as much to remember.

Also, it would be tougher on a injured knee at 2nd. Can't say that the infield dirt is tougher than the outfield grass, but the cuts & pivots you make are more likely to aggravate the knee than running to catch fly balls.

As much as I'd like for us to find a spot for this kid on the team as a Rule 5 player, speaking from experience, I think it may be tough and not worth the risk. Just my opinion.

by Pujols Is A God on Mar 6, 2008 6:15 PM EST 0 recs

Very nice assesment of the situation

Pujols is A God...

Nice screen name as well.

Still I am curious to know how Barton would look at 2B.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Mar 6, 2008 6:51 PM EST up 0 recs

Thanks

And I agree 100%. If he's as gifted athletically as everyone makes him out to be, this may very well be worth a look. I just don't think, based solely on the difference in position, that any regular joe/bench player could handle this switch.

by Pujols Is A God on Mar 6, 2008 7:25 PM EST up 0 recs

Agreed.

If he wasn't so athelitic I wouldn't have suggested it at all.

It's not the same as shifting Duncan out of the outfield to 2B.

Imagine that.

It would be like a moose in china shop.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Mar 6, 2008 9:42 PM EST up 0 recs

biggio part duex?

This experiment worked well for Houston and Biggio, why not throw a better athlete at the problem

by rajah424 on Mar 6, 2008 6:22 PM EST 0 recs

Not really...

If I remember correctly, Biggio was originally a catcher that they moved to second. He moved to center (and then back to second) later on.

by Phizzle on Mar 6, 2008 8:02 PM EST up 0 recs

You're correct on that

by Valatan on Mar 6, 2008 9:37 PM EST up 0 recs

Not to mention

That Biggio is himself a very fine athelete; what makes someone think Barton is a better one?

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Mar 7, 2008 10:52 AM EST up 0 recs

Hmm...

I don't think it's very likely to work, but I would be all for having him take some ground balls and see if he has any kind of aptitude for it.

It's definitely an interesting idea. Probably a long shot, but still.

"Hello, Cleveland!"

by the red baron on Mar 6, 2008 7:02 PM EST 0 recs

like it

I like the idea as well and also anything that gives any chance to miles getting less AB's

by spakowpj on Mar 6, 2008 8:47 PM EST 0 recs

sorry

This is not a rational thought. Barton has to stay on the 25 man roster the entire season for us to keep him. There is only one roster spot for a backup middle infielder. That individual has to backup both 2B and SS. These are premium skill positions. So you are proposing that an outfielder @ age 26 who has never played the IF is told to learn to play both 2B and SS at the major league level? Just insane.

by jjray on Mar 6, 2008 9:17 PM EST 0 recs

NO!

Who said anything about SS?

What I'm saying is give him a look and if he has a propensity to the position of 2B train him while using him as a back-up outfielder. Deploy him in blowouts or games we have large leads to take the pressure off.

That way he gets familiar.

Then you send him to winter ball to play 2B and nothing more.

Next year you keep him as a back-up outfielder and 2B....maybe even 1B as a defensive replacement for Pujols.

By 2010 he is ready if he hasn't all ready taken the position of 2B.

Also if Duncans defense still ends up being a liability move Barton to our leftfield and trade Duncan.

The cost per year isn't damaging so if by then he isn't a second baseman trade him to a team who needs a LF if his offense holds up.

It only costs us 1 year of holding back a prospect. Push back say Mather or even Rasmus to start the season. Hell DFA Kennedy. Might as well cause he only has one more year & he won't sign a deal more affordable than Bartons.

Play Hoff until Barton is ready. If Hoff rocks break out the "Hoffinator Tee Shirts" and trade Barton.

The potential upside is huge and the chance for loss minimal.

And if you think calling 2B a premium positon your insane.

The defensive mind of a second basemen is a very intellectual mind. They aren't always the best athletes. If you get one that is a good athlete along with a strong mind you have an all-star.

But then again he might not look good at second base. That's why you give him a look.

Because it's free.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Mar 6, 2008 9:59 PM EST 0 recs

Great minds....

The guys that assess players along the way have already thought of every possibility for Barton there is. If they thought he could do infield work, he'd be there.

Red has seen a few infielders come and go in his day, 60 years or so. Likewise Oquendo and McKay. You're thinking like a scout or coach! Good job!

I think other factors involving trades, injuries or roster spots will prevent it from ever being a consideration. Not all Rule 5's stick. Cleveland knows that from the guy they got from us for our rental in 06. FREE is ALWAYS good, I like your thinking there! So does Mo.

If we can't be good, can we at least be lucky?

by cardschinmusic on Mar 7, 2008 4:20 AM EST 0 recs

Where's Hector Luna?

Wouldn't he be a nice player to have in this situation. But back to Barton at 2nd... He will need a new glove, and if TLR is willing to try him at 2nd, I will buy that glove for him.

by Jumsy on Mar 7, 2008 10:55 AM EST 0 recs