Back to the Future with Wainwright
I don't know about the rest of you but I'm ready for some real baseball. Don't get me wrong; I like Spring Training and all but I'm ready to watch some games that count. Just a little over a week till that first game. . .
Derrick Goold has an article up today discussing Chris Carpenter and Adam Wainwright whom the Cardinals have positioned to anchor their rotation over the next 3-5 years. In it John Mozeliak says,
"The one thing that we were looking at constructing this contract was some flexibility should we have an injury," Mozeliak said. "There's no doubt any time you sign a pitcher, you're one pitch away. But in his case, where he is with his physical and how he looks, being in the shape he's in, we're pretty bullish on him."
With the signing of Lohse this past week, Mo was asked on Bernie Miklasz radio show about how much flexibility there would be mid-season to add a player if needed. Mo made all the right platitudes about management being committed and willing to add players at the right cost. It was exactly what you'd want to hear and exactly what he should have said. Anyone else catch that buzzword though?
Flexibility.
A team (read: payroll) that can quickly react to the market and the opportunities each offseason and trading deadline is obviously a desirable thing. The best way to create that scenario is cost-controlled talent, namely players from your farm system, but that's a subject which is approaching dead-horse status. Let's take a quick glance into the future to see what commitments we have from 2009 on.
| 2009 | 2010 | 2011 | 2012 | 2013 | |
| 1B - Pujols | 16 | 16 | 16 | ||
| 2B - Kennedy | 4 | ||||
| 3B - Glaus | 11.25 | ||||
| RHP - Carpenter | 14 | 14.5 | 15 | 15 | |
| LHP - Mulder | 11 | ||||
| RHP - Pineiro | 7.5 | ||||
| RHP - Franklin | 2.5 | 2.75 | |||
| C - Molina | 3.25 | 4.25 | 5.25 | 7 | |
| RHP - Clement | 8.75 | ||||
| RHP - Wainwright | 2.6 | 4.6 | 6.5 | 9 | 12 |
| Total | 80.85 | 42.1 | 42.75 | 31 | 12 |
| Options | 31 | 2.75 | 16 | 31 | 12 |
What you see here are the contractual obligations through 2013 in no particular order. The options line is the amount of committed money if all options (both player and club variety) were exercised that year. The club has options on Mulder and Clement next season and Glaus has a player's option as well. That's a hefty amount of semi-committed money. Depending on those decisions the Cardinals could make a lot of noise next offseason. While I don't want to wear out my crystal ball too much, one name that immediately jumps to mind this offseason is AJ Burnett. I'll say no more.
What did Wainwright's shiny new contract mean in terms of flexibility though. The last two seasons are club options at what would probably be below market rates. The first three years in the table above buy out his arbitration years. Obviously, these years are meant to continue a player's cost controlled time without being the total screw job that the pre-arb years are.
Looking at his Baseball Prospectus page, PECOTA is quite the fan of Wainwright. Not only does his ERA improve over the next 5 years but it isn't even forecasting any significant injury with his IP sitting around 180. Some people will disagree with that but I'm not an injury prognosticator -- well, not often at least -- so I'm gonna stick with those totals.
Doing some back of the envelope calculations (that I hope to make nice and pretty to show you in a later post), Wainwright looks to be about 2.7 wins above replacement level next season. If we anticipate him maintaining that level over the next 5 years, I'd estimate his free agent value around $40M. Try not to get too caught up in where I got those numbers, but for those who really care to know its a WAR calculation and Tom Tango's salary scale. Again, I hope to lay that all out in more detail in the future but for now I want you to focus on those adjectives before "value" because that's the hitch. Wainwright isn't a free agent so we have to do some kind of pro-rating on his salary for his arb years. Tango uses .4/.6/.8 coefficients to calculate the three-arb year values based off of the free agent value. Doing the same, I'd guess Wainwright's value during the arb years is about 20M if he went year-to-year.
That is a well done contract by John Mozeliak. If you want to point to something that he's done right this offseason, here's a great example. The contract saves the team something in the neighborhood of 7M over the next 3 years and both of the options are club options meaning it's all upside for the team those seasons. If he's playing well, they'll get him at below market rates. If not, they can cut and run. This was quite the coup. Now that's not to imply that Wainwright didn't get something in return. He certainly did -- security. He's set for life financially at this point. Everything else is gravy.
It's impossible to say for certain that Wainwright won't blow his elbow out this season. Hell, that's exactly what happened to the other half of the Cardinal's pitching "core". This is a team friendly contract, however,and it locked up a player that's likely to be one of the prominent (and marketable) faces of the franchise over the next 5 years. I've been critical of some roster management lately but this deal gets two thumbs up from me.
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Standing O for Mo
on this contract........the mind of Mo is showing signs of great wisdom
by Hinkster on Mar 21, 2008 8:53 AM EDT 0 recs
Mo
Who worked this deal? Didn't the Cards hire some guy who was very well versed in contract negotiation?
I am sure Mo played a role but it's funny how people say good job Mo, when the other guy (heck I don't even know his name) probably played the real role in the signing of AW.
Anyone know the guys name who is the contract expert for STL?
by ICbirdfan on
Mar 21, 2008 2:55 PM EDT
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Gary LaRocque?
I think this is the guy you're thinking of. Mo hired him in January to replace Jerry Walker, who is apparently retiring. Walker was the VP of Player Personnel.
Ironically, according to this article, LaRocque was the guy who scouted and signed David Wright, who I used earlier as the poster child for this type of pre-arbitration contract.
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
by taiko on
Mar 21, 2008 3:21 PM EDT
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Mo was given a lot of credit when he was the asst GM
for negotiating contracts and talking to agents.
I think he had a lot to do with this contract.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on
Mar 21, 2008 3:30 PM EDT
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this is almost exactly the same deal
that danny haren got after his '05 season --- 4 years, $13m, with a one year option. haren was in the analogous position, ie one year away from arb eligibility, and coming off an almost identical season (14-12, 3.73 era). adjust for 3 years of inflation, and adam's deal pretty much matches danny's.
by lboros on Mar 21, 2008 9:05 AM EDT 0 recs
Since you brought up Haren..
could you imagine a rotation featuring Carpenter, Haren, and Wainwright?...ouch. That said, at the time the thing that upset me most about the mulder trade was that Daric Barton was included. Other than that I was okay with it. Shows what I know..
"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on
Mar 21, 2008 9:13 AM EDT
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I've said this before
but think about Carp, Waino, Haren, Rick Ankiel, and the good version of Anthony Reyes.
Cheap (mostly), young (mostly), and really, really good.
by Jhusk on
Mar 22, 2008 1:06 AM EDT
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signing before breakout season
What makes this a good move for the Cardinals is that Wainwright hasn't yet had his big breakout season and Mo was able to sign Wainwright long term at a bargain price. I would be very surprised if Wainwright is not among the top ten leaders in ERA in 2008.
DYNASTY League Baseball - the leader in realism in Baseball simulation games from the designer of Pursue the Pennant.
by DYNASTYLeagueBaseballMike on
Mar 21, 2008 10:43 PM EDT
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Agreed.
I like the deal as well. It gives young Adam security but doesn't cripple the team financially if something unforeseen happens to his arm. It also sends the message that the Cards are serious about getting younger and building from within. (I know that WW isn't technically homegrown, but he did spent time in our system.)
O/T Alert!
How did everyone do with their brackets yesterday? Mine went a perfect 16 for 16.
by cardsgirl95 on Mar 21, 2008 9:11 AM EDT 0 recs
eh
i'm pretty pissed off about my bracket. i was on my way to a decent 13 for 16 day until freakin' arizona laid an egg and i ended up a less impressive 12 for 16.
still a good first round if i go 16 for 16 today.
by stlcardinalsfang on
Mar 21, 2008 10:38 AM EDT
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not too bad
I picked GM over ND, USC over KState, UK over Marquette, Baylor over Purdue and Georgia over Xavier.
The worst of those was that I had USC in the Elite 8 and Georgia in the Sweet Sixteen so I am already down 2 next round and 1 the next.
by StLHugo on
Mar 21, 2008 10:57 AM EDT
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I have
Xavier in the Elite Eight, so I would have been really screwed if Georgia had pulled off the upset. I live in the shadow of the Golden Dome, so I felt I knew ND well enough to pick them as a safe bet.
by cardsgirl95 on
Mar 21, 2008 11:12 AM EDT
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yeah
i have xavier in the elite 8. they made me sweat it out when i saw they were down by 10 at halftime.
by stlcardinalsfang on
Mar 21, 2008 11:13 AM EDT
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i did a little better than you i suppose
i only lost one sweet 16 team (arizona).
i missed on baylor, arizona, kent st, and temple.
by stlcardinalsfang on
Mar 21, 2008 11:13 AM EDT
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chart
I like the chart, but it would be even sweeter if you could mark the player years that are options, ect.
Great points on flexibility. I've really enjoyed the majority of Mo's actions this year. It really makes me look forward to '09.
by rmtx97 on Mar 21, 2008 9:25 AM EDT 0 recs
Blah
I argued quite a bit yesterday (and this morning) in the previous thread why I don't like this.
It's not that I don't think it's a fair deal, or has some long-term potential to be a great deal once out of arbitration years (based on option ASSUMPTIONS). It's just I think it's premature risk for no reason.
Wainwright might sleep better at night, but I have serious doubts after pitching another year A) his price tag would raise substantially, B) he wouldn't have agreed to below market option years, or C) he would have held out for free agency. I just don't see that happening. No other top level pitchers have held out when approached before their 5th year of team control.
Restating all the arguements I presented yesterday seems redundant and tireseme. So, I'm going to try (maybe) to stay out of this today.
I just think Mo should have learned some lessons from WJ extending Carpenter a year before he had to, or extending Edmonds a year before he had to. Unnecessary risk that gains us really nothing from waiting an additional year. Bad team philosophy, IMO.
by RedbirdRay on Mar 21, 2008 9:33 AM EDT 0 recs
Maybe I didn't make my point well enough then
there's incentive for the Cardinals to do this now rather than go year-to-year. They save money by doing this now. I share our concerns with injuries but the money that the Cardinals would be on the hook for is nothing compared to the Carpenter situation.
I'm not sure the comparison between the two pitchers is really an apt one. Wainwright is younger, has no injury history and under team control. Carpenter was over 30, had previous shoulder problems and was a year away from free agency. I wasn't a fan of the Carpenter contract but the Cardinals assume the risk of Wainwright getting injured in order of reaping the monetary benefits if he stays healthy.
by azruavatar on
Mar 21, 2008 10:02 AM EDT
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Injury history
Wainwright does have injury history. He just doesn't have surgical history.
If you can illustrate to me that team-controlled pitchers sign much bigger contracts when settling at 4 years instead of two, I'll concede your point.
by RedbirdRay on
Mar 21, 2008 10:07 AM EDT
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3 years
You can throw 3 years of team control in there also. I seriously don't see what the time frame desperation was.
by RedbirdRay on
Mar 21, 2008 10:10 AM EDT
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Arbitration
He may be under team control, but have you seen the arbitration awards given out this season?
Ryan Howard won his case as only a third-year player, and won $10M. Now the Phillies can expect to pay him at least that much per season over each of the final three years of his "team-controlled" arbitration years.
Compare that with David Wright's contract, which was given to him in his second year as a pro.
07:$1M (plus $1.5M signing bonus), 08:$5M, 09:$7.5M, 10:$10M, 11:$14M, 12:$15M,
13:$16M club option ($1M buyout)
- per Cot's Contracts
The Mets saved at least $20 million dollars from 2008-2010 on a comparatively valued player by making the early commitment.
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
by taiko on
Mar 21, 2008 12:40 PM EDT
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This was a classy move by the Birds
If we screw Wagonmaker and go year to year to save a couple of bucks then when he is a free agent he will have no qualms about whoring out his services for top dollar.
This is relationship building.
Good move Mo & glad to have you around for 6 years Adam.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on Mar 21, 2008 9:50 AM EDT 0 recs
In my mind...
building "relationships" with your core young players may be the new way for teams to both control payroll, avoid the over-priced free agent market, and continue to contend.
The key is to properly identify your "core"... Pujols, Molina, and Wainer are all pretty obvious choices; how about Duncan? Ankiel?
Treat your people right, and you have a better chance of keeping them off the free-agent market. The MLBPA won't like it, but there are legitimate reasons for players to accept less than the top dollar offered; liking the place you play is just one of those reasons!
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on
Mar 21, 2008 11:00 AM EDT
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I agree
also, the "leadership" group that TLR uses instead of a team captain is a good way of doing this too. Wainwright was just added to this group along with Yadi.
by StLHugo on
Mar 21, 2008 11:15 AM EDT
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Didn't
Yadi join the leadership group last year?
by cardsgirl95 on
Mar 21, 2008 11:19 AM EDT
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I thought it was this offseason
but i could be wrong.
by StLHugo on
Mar 21, 2008 11:21 AM EDT
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one of the better deals in a long time
as soon as i saw that it covered his arbitration years, i was thrilled.
mo's impressing me more and more. . .
by stlcardinalsfang on Mar 21, 2008 10:39 AM EDT 0 recs
Here, here!
There's not much to add that hasn't been brought up. Two great moves for the rotation in as many weeks with one focusing on the short term need for competitiveness and the other focusing on the long term foundation of the ballclub. The Lohse signing was a great deal for the value he brings to the table, as is the Wainwright deal. My hat goes off to Mo on both.
by bgh on Mar 21, 2008 10:50 AM EDT 0 recs
Glaus's option
Glaus's option was picked up as part of the trade so it is really guaranteed at this point.
by StLHugo on Mar 21, 2008 10:58 AM EDT 0 recs
Yup
beat me to the post. Glaus is in the fold for the next two seasons. D.GOOCH
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on
Mar 21, 2008 11:08 AM EDT
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I'm Back
I once joked that I misplaced an 82 somewhere around here and if anyone found it to let me know. Well the download to the new server sure found it and messed my account all up. I couldn't even sign up for a new account. After several E-Mails with the Tech boys and downloading a new web browser I seem to be OK for now. Watch, when they try to fix my screen name it will be messed up again. Oh well, guess someone had to be the glitch.
OK time to get caught up. Like the Wainwright deal, love the Lohse deal. Think the new site is alright but haven't been able to do anything but view so the jury is still out. It made a really bad first impression by taking away my favorite part, ME!!!!
Hey azruavatar, can I sleep in your closet.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Mar 21, 2008 11:17 AM EDT 0 recs
2009
I said yesteday I liked the wainer deal and do more so today.
Just struck me, 2009 1b,2b,3b,c, and most of the rotation is there. so mo well have a lil money next year even. well depends on what he signs the arb. players for. It looks like more of the same for 2009.
"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell
by elirock83 on Mar 21, 2008 11:44 AM EDT 0 recs
09
Depending on what Ryan and Ankiel prove or don't prove this year, here is what I see as our 2009 lineup:
Rasmus CF
Barton/Duncan/Ludwick LF
Pujols 1B
Ankiel RF
Glaus 3B
Molina C
Kennedy 2B
Pitcher
Ryan SS
Rotation:
Carpenter
Wainwright
Mulder
Piniero
Clement/Garcia, etc.
by StLHugo on
Mar 21, 2008 11:53 AM EDT
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Duncan...
needs to be gone by next season...IMO. The only positions he should be playing are 1B and DH, neither of which are available on the Cards roster till after 2011. I'm thinking that when Pujols shuts it down for surgery in June/July Duncan starts the rest of the year at 1B playing solid D and putting up a .900+ OPS, and we can then trade him for a legit pre-arb MIF or SP. At least that's my hope. I like everything else (I don't think there's anyway Clement and Mulder are both brought back).
Thanks for the highlight moments 15 and 27!!!
by cardzfanbub on
Mar 21, 2008 12:03 PM EDT
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I like duncan, but
I agree that his time here should be coming to an end if Ankiel and Barton stick. A future outfield of Barton, Ankiel, and Rasmus looks pretty good to me. Ludwick is pretty good as a bench player, can fill in anywhere and can provide some pinch-hitting power. That would leave Skip and Dunc as trade bait.
by hit and run on
Mar 21, 2008 12:45 PM EDT
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i think
duncan minus hitting in front of pujols equals a not as good hitter. i don't think teams are really going to bite for duncan until he hits behind pujols or instead of pujols due to injury.
i'll be extremely impressed if he hits .900 in a pujolsless lineup.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
by FutureMan on
Mar 21, 2008 11:08 PM EDT
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Uh...
He actually has hit better behind Pujols than in front. Last year he had an .800 OPS hitting 2nd, and an .914 OPS hitting 4th (behind Pujols).
Only about half the PA, though, so the sample size was small. But still...
by DiscoJer on
Mar 21, 2008 11:35 PM EDT
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What? No Reyes?
I guess he'll be traded then, right?
Sorry.... this will start another arguement.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on
Mar 21, 2008 12:56 PM EDT
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He could be the etc.
or he could be traded, I just think a healthy Mulder right now would replace him so he would have to fight for the 4th or 5th spot which means either Pineiro is traded or one of the other guys coming up doesn't get a shot and we turn down Clement.
by StLHugo on
Mar 21, 2008 2:05 PM EDT
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You talking to me?
I caused a bit of a dustup by posting that I thought if they did not break camp with him in the rotation they should trade him-because i think a demotion will further erode his value. I do still lthink that.
Today I come not to argue, but to propose a trade. One that really might benefit both sides and both players. How about Anthony Reyes + to the Mets for Mike Pelfrey?
Why? Mike Pelfrey was a first round pick. He pitched well until he got into the bigs. He has some command issues, has shown flashes of brilliance, but trouble stringing innings together. New York fans hate him. They thought they were getting Jake Peavy or something like an ace. He probably never was that, but he's got that 1st round tag that hurts guys that take time to develop. But get this-he throws a "very hittable" 90's sinking fastball. 6:1 GB/FB ratio when he's going good. Derek Lowe in the making? Problem though, that's all he has command of right now. He's also becoming a black mark on the well thought of pitching coack Rick Peteson.
Why Anthony Reyes +? Because Pelfrey was a first rounder, they got to get something for that big bonus they paid. Perhaps throw in one of the left handed outfielders from the minors? Why would they want him? Two words-Oliver Perez. A similiar pitcher (from the left side) who had similiar problems being consistent has performed pretty well with Rick Peterson. He's set t be a free agent in 2009. They might be looking for someone that can be there next year and the next as well. Fly ball pitcher? So what. keep it in the park, please so Chavez//Beltran/Church/Pagan can run it down in the heavy humid air. You know Santana, Perez, Maine, and Martinez all had GB%'s in the high 30's last year. Rick Peterson will not be scared of Anthony's flyball rate. He's also becoming a black mark on a well thought of pitching coach in Dave Duncan.
It would be a perfect challenge trade for both players. They would both be with pitching coaches that better suited their strengths. And the teams wouldn't have to face each other enough for it to matter if one or both of them turned it around in a modest or even a big way. Of course what if you faced each other in a playoff? Well, so what-if you got there lets hope it was because both of the players were good enough to help get you there.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
Mar 21, 2008 4:08 PM EDT
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Question
This is my first post on the VEB site and I apologize for the length and the question (it is off topic). A friend and I were discussing impact of steroids on baseball stats. We both think it affected players but think the newer ballparks and different baseballs have also had an impact. Is any one familiar with any articles that examine these factors? One thought I had, was that if you took the historic parks like Fenway, Wrigley, Yankee and possibly stadiums such as Dodger Stadium and looked at the slugging percentages over time you could eliminate the park factor. I think someone has to do this eventually if the writers are ever going to make some kind of reasoned decision on HOF.
Please let me know if you are familiar w/such articles.
Thanks from a first time poster
by Tony H on Mar 21, 2008 12:11 PM EDT 0 recs
It's a doozy for a first time post
Interesting question. Congrats on first post.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on
Mar 21, 2008 1:00 PM EDT
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Does anybody
have a Gameday, please....where's Hardcore when you need him.
by ridgesee on
Mar 21, 2008 1:04 PM EDT
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gameday link is good
but so far nothing has been reported. Wonder if it i raining or something.
by ridgesee on
Mar 21, 2008 1:22 PM EDT
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sadly it's half-inning at a time
Here's hoping all the Cards half-inning are 20 minutes or longer.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on
Mar 21, 2008 1:29 PM EDT
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the Cards bottom of the 2nd ...
is taking a long time ... hope that's a good sign ...
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on
Mar 21, 2008 1:47 PM EDT
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welcome to VEB ;)
i saw an article that does exactly what you are saying not too long ago. It compared historical ballpark dimensions and park factors and showed that parks are actually, on average, larger now than they were in the past... can't find it now though. I'll try to remember who wrote it and link to it.
by SleepyCA on
Mar 21, 2008 1:42 PM EDT
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SleepyCA
I enjoy the site. Great articles and a great community.
by Tony H on
Mar 21, 2008 6:32 PM EDT
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Try this site
http://hardballtimes.com
They publish a lot of thoughtful articles of this vein, and have very good searchable archives as well.
"Attaway to stomp 'em. Stomp the piss out of 'em. Stomp 'em when they're down. Kick 'em and stomp 'em. Attaway to go boys. Pound that old Budweiser into you and go get them tomorrow." -- Joe Schultz
by taiko on
Mar 21, 2008 3:04 PM EDT
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welcome to VEB
great first post, enjoy your stay
I''m a Jenius!
by gibbons on
Mar 22, 2008 1:48 PM EDT
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What the hell ...
did KTRS decide to take the rest of the spring off? ... why no audio? ... oh well, the Gameday link is ...
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/y2007/gd.html?2008_03_21_balmlb_slnmlb_1&brand=mlb
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on Mar 21, 2008 1:07 PM EDT 0 recs
The 5th spot
Since Wellemeyer hit Francoeur in the face with a pitch last outing....does that mean he loses the rotation race by TLR's law? TLR has said time and again it's the pitcher's responsability to have control over his pitches. If he can't control it then he shouldn't throw it up and in.
by RedbirdRay on Mar 21, 2008 1:17 PM EDT 0 recs
I don't understand the team's fascination with Wellemeyer
He throws hard but he has no idea where the ball is going. Just put Ankiel back on the mound.
by azruavatar on
Mar 21, 2008 1:57 PM EDT
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I know your joking
but be careful what you say. You don't want to give them any ideas.
I can see it in the P-D now. After batting practice Duncan asked Ankiel to toss a bullpen session for old times. He threw well, hit his spots and TLR thinks he can use him here and there in a pinch against lefthanded hitters.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on
Mar 21, 2008 2:21 PM EDT
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I'm envisioning a scene
from the 2017 season. Ankiel, playing out the string on what has been a successful career as a power-hitting outfielder, and now platooning in the outfield for Seattle, finds his team down by 8 runs in a meaningless September game, the 4th of a four-game series. The Mariner bullpen, already gassed after pitching 17 innings in the first three games, is once again being worn out by the ferocious lineup of the Las Vegas A's (who had clinched 2 weeks earlier and are now tuning up to defend their World Championship). Between innings, Ankiel, a wry grin on his face, approaches pitching coach Tyler Johnson and volunteers to "toss a few frames" if the team really needs it. Manager Jose Oquendo, always sympatico with versatile players, takes him up on it. Three innings later, Ankiel ends his career with a wild ride, getting the win after giving up 3 runs, walking 4, striking out 7 and throwing 3 wild pitches past catcher Bryan Anderson. He ends the game on a dramatic note when, after staring intently at pinch-hitter Carlos Beltran and winking (a la Burt Lancaster), he drops a beautiful 12-6 curve past an astonished Beltran, who never takes the bat off his shoulder.
by MdRedbirdFreak on
Mar 21, 2008 3:53 PM EDT
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They really like him. They really do.
I'm as baffled as you. He also has a nifty 9BB/8K ratio. And he hit Frenchie in the face. Hard enough to sideline him for 5 days. TLR's Law consists of some shit he just makes up.
I just know my friends that are Royals fans laugh about him being on our team. I know, it's not fair, I told them he pitched reasonably well for us last year, but they still just laugh ........
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
Mar 21, 2008 5:57 PM EDT
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jeez waino gets a contract...
and already starts stinking it up :)
j/k
...just a bit outside....
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Mar 21, 2008 1:22 PM EDT 0 recs
Yes
But the second inning went much better for Adam.
by cardsgirl95 on
Mar 21, 2008 1:51 PM EDT
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bad days
even the best pitchers have bad days, i would rather this be a bad game then opening day.
by StLHugo on
Mar 21, 2008 2:09 PM EDT
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For today
The Wagon Maker shall only be judge for the even innings. j/k
He's getting the grounders.... got to like that.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on
Mar 21, 2008 2:16 PM EDT
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Whoops
2 double plays.... He's given up two doubles and now I'm getting double vision.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on
Mar 21, 2008 2:26 PM EDT
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4.2 innings
anyone know why wainer was pulled after 4.2 innings? was it just ineffectiveness or was there something else?
by StLHugo on
Mar 21, 2008 3:46 PM EDT
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pitch count?
I'm guessing he had reached his pitch count. I think pitchers generally have a set pitch count in spring training and don't really get pulled for any other reason.
by madding on
Mar 21, 2008 3:50 PM EDT
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