Viva El Birdos: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:





Launching the ship

Wow! There’s a lot of pressure w/ the conversion to the new format. It’s been a long time coming. It’ll take some getting used to, to be sure, but after my first few glances of it, I like it a lot. I don’t think it’ll take too long for us all to get accustomed to it and I think most of us will like it much better once that happens.

I wanted to begin w/ a welcome to our new #2 starter. It’s hard to believe that Kyle Lohse is actually anybody’s #2, let alone ours, but it’s true. It would be true even w/o the injuries to Pineiro and Clement those injuries make Lohse a welcome addition to the roster. Though he’s not a great starter by any means, I’m pretty astounded that we’re 15 days away from opening day (I really do like some of these new features!) and Lohse still didn’t have a home.

As we all know by now, LB has advocated for Kyle Lohse for some time, including here , here , here and, most notably, here and now, if all goes well, he’ll be starting against the defending NL Champs on April 2. In fact, Duncan and Mozeliak seem to be of the opinion that Lohse will be ready to go on opening day. But how did it come to this? This guy was supposed to be the second best starting pitcher available in an admittedly weak free agent market. How is it that he was still available in mid-March?

First of all, we need to appreciate what a coup it is to get Kyle Lohse on a 1 year, $4.25 M contract. This isn’t the second coming of Jocketty’s decision to sign Chris Carpenter in 2003 but this is a pretty damned good signing. PECOTA estimates Lohse’s value this year at about $4.5 M, but PECOTA’s projections are based on him being a Phillie and pitching in Citizen’s Bank Park for half his starts. The Hardball Times’ Fair Market Value Calculator has him at about $7.5 M. That’s what the sabermetric projection systems say he’s worth but, as we all know, considering the weak free agent market, it’s a complete shock that some yahoo – Ed Wade, I’m looking at you – didn’t give him a 4 year $40 M contract.

Lohse has thrown more than 178 innings in 5 of the last 6 seasons and has a career ERA+ of 95, making him decidedly league average. However, those numbers are based on him pitching his entire career in heavily hitter-friendly ballparks. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that Lohse is a hidden gem but he has been very steady during the course of his career. In one of LB’s posts about Lohse above, he compared Lohse favorably to Suppan when the Cards signed him. In fact, Lohse’s #1 comp is Suppan – a guy who was never great but was pretty steady, giving the Cards 5 or 6 innings and around 180 – 190 IP per year. He took some pressure off the pen and, in turn, the other 4 starters and managed to keep the team in the game more often than not.

We know that at least half, and often close to 2/3 of a player’s free agent value is determined by his results the previous season. If we compare Lohse’s numbers last season, with the Reds and Phils, to other NL pitchers we find the following:

Stat#better than
FIP 4.52 C. Zambrano, Zito, Glavine, Livan Hernandez
WS 9 Zito, Marquis, Suppan, Morris
WPA 0.01 Livan, Morris, Suppan, Moyer

Was Lohse outstanding in ’07? Of course not but he was better than a lot of pitchers who receive more plaudits and more dollars than him. His FIP was almost exactly the same as the more heralded Bronson Arroyo and, as you can see above, was actually lower than the great Carlos Zambrano. His 9 win shares were equal to the total of Ben Sheets and Greg Maddux

So he entered the free agent market with Carlos Silva, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Livan Hernandez, and bunch of guys, like Clement, coming off injury of one form or another. Here’s how Lohse’s contract compares with several of his free agency competitors using last season’s win shares.

Age’08 $’07 WS$ per WS
Lohse 29 4.25 9 472,222
Byrd 37 8 11 727,273
Livan 33 5 10 500,000
Lieber 37 3.5 3 1,166,667
Maddux 41 10 9 1,111,111
K. Rogers 43 8 3 2,666,667
Glavine 42 8 11 727,273
Silva 28 7 11 636,364
Tomko 34 3 0 f-ing infinity!
K. Wells 31 3 3 1,000,000
Wolf 31 4.75 5 950,000

The Lohse signing is easily the best, in terms of value, of the offseason. Not only do you get more WS per $ than any of the others, but you’re also not locked into Silva’s 4 year contract or the 3-5 years most thought Lohse would get. As I said, it’s a great coup for Mozeliak but it doesn’t tell us how it happened.

The following is a list of pitchers projected to be in teams’ opening day starting rotations: Garrett Olson, Edwin Jackson, Gavin Floyd, Lenny DiNardo, Rick VandenHurk, the entire Washington Nationals’ rotation, Shawn Chacon and/or Chris Sampson, Matt Belisle, Esteban Loaiza, Randy Wolf AND Justin Germano, and perhaps Kip freaking Wells. So, somehow, about half the teams in MLB chose 1 or more of these guys over a guy who’s thrown 1074 league-average innings over the last 6 seasons. All the projection systems have him in the same neighborhood this year as well – w/ about 180 IP, a 4.55 FIP, fewer than 3 BB/9 and more than 5.5 K/9. He should be better than Braden Looper and we’re giving him $5.5 M. Some of these teams also intend to attempt to contend and will need every well-pitched inning they can get in order to do it.

The Rockies chose Kip Wells over Kyle Lohse. The Royals, who last year paid Gil Meche 5 years and $55 M decided to give Brett Tomko $3 M rather than giving Kyle Lohse $5 M. The Twins (do they know something?) gave more money to homer-friendly Livan Hernandez. The Padres chose 2 injury reclamation projects (Wolf and Prior) rather than taking 180-190 innings from Lohse.

Finally, there are the Astros, whose new GM – Ed Wade -- is ever-confounding. This guy traded what was left of his farm system for the aging Miguel Tejada. He traded Chad Qualls, Chris Burke, and a decent young pitcher for Jose Valverde and signed Kaz Matsui to a 3 year, $15 M contract to play 2B. It’s clear he intends to try and get as much out of the last couple of years of Berkman’s and Oswalt’s contract as he can. He’s going to try to win something before Carlos Lee’s body completely gives out and yet he gives Shawn freaking Chacon $2 M and has no interest in giving Lohse $4-5 M. This absolutely defies logic.

Let’s set aside the possibility of collusion among the owners. There wasn’t much out there available and Carlos Silva got his long-term contract. While I won’t say it’s impossible, to me it’s unlikely that Lohse was the ONLY victim of collusion this offseason. There must be another explanation.

How could a relatively valuable slip through the cracks so far that half the big-league teams will send someone to the mound every 5th day who couldn’t crack our injury-plagued rotation? I can’t help but wonder if the market hasn’t corrected to the point that league-average free agent acquisitions are actually UNDERvalued!

There’s been quite a switch among most (Astros excepted) major-league front offices toward a greater appreciation for the value of younger and cheaper major-league players. For the most part, this is a good thing as the high-dollar free agent contracts for mediocre players were what rendered many teams unable to compete for several years. Most teams now see that the young players whose contracts are still under the team’s control tend to be as good or better as their aging counterparts who were earning long-term and high-dollar contracts. Going w/ the younger and cheaper players also frees up lots of extra dollars that can be used on the superstars – those truly worthy of the long-term, high-dollar contracts.

Still, he we are in mid-March able to sign Kyle Lohse to a 1 year, $4.25 M contract. Has the market gone so far in favor of the young players that GM’s are unable to see the value in someone like Lohse? Might the Rockies, Dodgers or Padres wish they had signed him as they’re competing for a playoff spot this summer? How about the Reds or Astros? He’s probably worth 2-3 wins over Belisle or Chacon, to say nothing of the effect that his 6 innings will have on their respective bullpens. Will one of the weaker teams regret not signing Lohse, thus allowing them to trade him for something relatively valuable in July? Last year he was traded for Matt Maloney, a big left-handed pitcher who’s averaged more than a strikeout an inning in his 2+ years in the minors. It just may be that Mozeliak’s best move yet is the trade he’ll make in July, by dangling Lohse to one of these GM’s who passed on giving him $5 M a month ago.

The essence of "Moneyball" was to exploit inefficiencies in the market. For several years that meant finding players w/ a high OBP or going w/ younger, more cost-effective players that allow the team to save resources for other players. Perhaps Mozeliak just acted impulsively to shore up an injury-riddled rotation but he also may have stumbled upon the most recent iteration of a market inefficiency – that of the undervalued, league-average major league ballplayer. Whatever the reason, there’s little doubt that this is a very good signing.

Fiddle w/ the new platform for a while. As I said, I really like it and am really proud to be able to christen it w/ this bottle of champagne. Hopefully, it generates enough interest to go down like Dom Perignon and not Brut.

0 recs | Comment 57 comments

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Display:

I have to temper my excitement with Lohse

I think I will confuse the fact that we apparently ripped the rest of the league off by getting this guy for such a value while he will at worst be league average with the fact that he isn't THAT great of a pitcher.

I just don't understand how the Mets with a rotation of old and unproven, or the Astros with NO DEPTH, or injury riddled Angels took no chance on this guy.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 16, 2008 2:57 AM EDT   0 recs

Agent Issue

I really don't think the issue of not being signed can completely be connected to either Lohse or GM's in the league. I mean, the guy is a Scott Boras client and Boras hasn't had the best of luck with his agents lately (either with contracts or with high profile players dropping him as an agent). Furthermore, maybe people are tired of him overselling free agents so he can pick up a decent paycheck? I mean, if I were a GM and there was a mediocre free agent pitcher who was a Boras client I'd be afraid of signing the next Jeff Weaver, too.

by Fro Jackson on Mar 16, 2008 3:24 AM EDT   0 recs

yeah, i think it's a boras thing

lohse was blackballed to punish boras. the way he handled the A-Rod thing really hurt him in the industry. it has been suggested that the owners might have colluded against A-Rod, forcing him back to the Yankees --- and that Boras's rival agents were in support of the collusion. i think Lohse suffered from some of the fallout.

by lboros on Mar 16, 2008 8:41 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

btw, thanks HC

for getting us under sail. nice post this a.m.

by lboros on Mar 16, 2008 8:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm surprised

more players haven't gone the kenny rogers route and kicked boras to the curb

Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle."

by erik on Mar 16, 2008 9:25 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

super agents

I think the rule of the supper agents is coming to an end. I think baseball is getting the picture that guys over selling there talent are doing just that, over selling their talent. after the roaster and a-rod both did their own deals and left him out in the cold that should have been a sign to slow down his machine and just get his talent signed. When you get spurned by the biggest money rich player in the game trying to re-sign with the biggest money rich team in the league, some bells should have went off.

"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell

by elirock83 on Mar 16, 2008 10:10 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

do you really believe this?

that GM's acted AGAINST their own best interest just to spite Boras? Wouldn't there have to be collusion, then? Wade's going to go "hell bent for leather" w/ every other part of their organization EXCEPT for signing Kyle Lohse? Maybe I'm naive. Maybe I'm cynical but aren't these guys too self-interested to do what is best for the league (arguably), thus rendering their team a little bit worse in the process? Some guys' jobs may be on the line here. Maybe they could explain it to their boss. OTOH, I have no other good explanation.

by houstoncardinal on Mar 16, 2008 11:31 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not sure

what to think about the collusion, to be honest. Were any other Boras clients signed this off-season?

Also, lboros, your avatar reminds me of Jurassic Park.

by Fro Jackson on Mar 16, 2008 11:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think there was collusion in the legal sense.....

....just a growing understanding by GMs as to the Boras method of negotiating, i.e., phantom teams bidding, consistent signing of overpriced contracts (admittedly this is what an agent does), etc.

You may send an outline of my new assignment to the mental ward at Charity Hospital. The solicitious nuns and psychiatrists there can help me decipher it between shock treatments.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Mar 16, 2008 1:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

HC, i do believe this

i can't think of any other way to explain why a league-average pitcher stayed on the market for so long. when teams like the mets and phils (both contenders, both in strong in need of pitching) are passing on the guy, and teams like the astros and cards (not strong contenders, but still desperate for pitching) aren't showing any interest either . . . . there's obviously something going on behind the scenes, something the fans don't know about. i thought perhaps he was hurt, or he had "personal problems" (ie a drug habit or something), or he was a known juicer . . . . . but the more i think about it, the more the collusion angle makes sense to me. i think Boras has made a lot of enemies, and the A-Rod thing greatly reduced his power / influence; there might be a form of payback going on.

if it really is collusion, i think the colluding parties would be the owners, not the GMs.

by lboros on Mar 16, 2008 2:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe you're right

I speculated the other day that he might be hurt. Perhaps Boras has been blackballed by the community. I know most aren't Boras fans (I don't really care either way), but collusion is collusion. A Rod fired him when it didn't appear that he was going to do any better than he was going to do w/ the Yanks. If there is collusion, the commish should step in and do something. Wait a minute! What was I thinking?!!!! The commissioner step in and do ANYTHING about ANYTHING? What an absurd statement!

by houstoncardinal on Mar 16, 2008 8:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Marvin Miller was on XMRadio the day after ARod

opted out and he said that the Yankees violated atleast 3 parts of the collective bargaining agreement when they said they refused to negotiate with ARod if he opted out of his contract (which is his right to do), that they refused to negotiate is Boras was involved (which you can not stipulate if a players agent can be there or not) and one other part that is slipping my mind.

Yet, did MLB do anything about it? Nope.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 16, 2008 8:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

How is that violating the CBA?

I don't see how any of that is a violation. A club can choose not to negotiate with a player for any reason, even if all he did was piss them off by opting out of a contract. They can also say, hey we won't negotiate with your current agent so if you want to deal with us do it without him or not at all, I don't see how that is an issue, if I don't want to deal with Boras then I can chose not to deal with any of his clients it is pretty simple. Maybe the CBA does cover these but I don't see why it would. They weren't saying that he couldn't have an agent present just didn't want a specific one.

by StLHugo on Mar 16, 2008 10:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

They can't threaten a player

like that. It is his collectively bargained right to engage in Free Agency. If they chose to not negotiate with him, that is their decision. But they can't negotiate stipulations to even HOLD negotiations outside of what was agreed upon in the CBA.

What the Yankees did was basically say in public "Oh yeah, you can have free agency, but we aren't going to negotiate with you if you take it." That hurts the players value in the free market as other teams don't have to compete against NY, it forces the player to give pause before taking part in something that is his right to do and overall it is good old fashion bullying to threaten a player to not have his legal representative there. What if you had the best lawyer in the world and the district attorney told you couldn't bring him if you wanted to work out a deal on those traffic tickets that have piled up?

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 17, 2008 1:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He got too greedy, IMHO...

Lohse (and Boras) wanted a big deal, presumably like Silva's. He wasn't available for a 1 year deal until now, when he was desperate. So teams went with those other guys who are probably worse, because they were willing to sign for 1 year back when the GMs were puzzlign together their projected rotations for the year. The Cardinals are basically the only team that waited until the very last minute to fill out their rotation, and that's only due to injury (mostly).

I also think that part of the trouble is that GMs often look at the W/L record of a pitcher as a big factor. Lohse is a career loser, which makes him less desireable, even though is other factors are average.

by DiscoJer on Mar 16, 2008 3:31 AM EDT   0 recs

With a different agent..

He may have been signed long ago for 3yrs/27M. He may have even got that 4th year. Lohse made a big financial mistake in following Weaver's footsteps. If he sucks this year he'll again be following in Weaver's footseps next year and be waiting for the phone to ring again.

"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Mar 16, 2008 3:54 AM EDT   0 recs

I agree...

I think he was only available because of Scott Boras. It just so happens that we had several spring training pitching setbacks (injuries, re-injuries, & recovery delays) and were faced with fewer and fewer viable options.

With our walking wounded and stitched together "Frankenstaff," we could really use a reliably mediocre innings eater. The fact that he's suddenly our #2 is kinda sad, though. Who knows, maybe he'll do really well in the more pitcher-friendly Busch stadium and earn that #2 ranking.

Great move by Mo and the front office staff to seize the opportunity and pull this off.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Mar 16, 2008 5:30 AM EDT   0 recs

League Average

The value of a League Average pitcher here is to keep the rotation intact until Mulder/Carpenter return. The Cads just want to be 50-50 and hope that the big guns come back and have us go 40-22 the rest of the way. Lohse gets us there without decimating the bullpen.

Hard to argue that this isn't a very good signing. The real issue is whether we get the big guys back in time to make a difference. If Carp/Mulder don't return to form then you can proceed with the rebuilding and Lohse goes out with the trash at end of year.

by The Duke on Mar 16, 2008 12:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks to Ed Wade, we no longer have to see Chad Qualls come in and punch out 2-3 Cardinals in the late innings with a 1-2 run Astros lead.

Was it just me or was Qualls a bonified Cardinal killer? Ive never seen his numbers against the Cards as a mid to late reliever for, but I'd wager we had little luck coming from behind against him.

Thanks Ed! Keep up the good work. And here's hoping Valverde looks more like 06 than 07 this year!

I agree, not wanting to deal with Boros was a factor in Lohse being a hot stove wallflower.

If we can't be good, can we at least be lucky?

by cardschinmusic on Mar 16, 2008 7:20 AM EDT   0 recs

Chad Qualls vs. The Cards

You are correct, my good man. Though, to be fair, Chad Qualls is just a great reliever.

Against the Cards in his career;
6-2 with a 2.61 ERA in 31 innings, Striking out 17 and walking 8.

There's only 3 teams he's posted an ERA over 3.99 against in his entire career; Anaheim (1 IP, 27.00), Kansas City (2.2 IP, 10.12), and Washington (15.1 IP, 5.87).

by mynameistyler on Mar 16, 2008 10:56 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

if you look at Qualls' numbers overall

he was just about as good as Valverde. And Wade gave up Qualls + a guy who could become a pretty decent 2B + a hard throwing prospect. Then they added Matsui. All in all, a terrible course of events. Qualls could have become about as good a closer as Valverde will be.

by houstoncardinal on Mar 16, 2008 11:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks!

That makes Qualls being way out west look even better playing Houston this season. D-backs win again!

Thanks for the numbers and the continuing questionable history re: Wades off-season. Somebody in Houston has to be looking over thisguy's shoulder?

"Son, we'd like to keep you around for the season but we're gonna try to win the pennant." Old Casey

by cardschinmusic on Mar 17, 2008 5:09 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Boras Free(falling) Agents

So who is next years victim (or opportunity)?
The gross on Lohse's contract only matched what Boras thought he would net for the commission. I love it. Except that he still gets a big payoff for toatling screwing this up. Lohse should sue him for incompetence.

by Birds on the Bat on Mar 16, 2008 7:29 AM EDT   0 recs

Weaver

has to be lumped in this group. The Nationals were interested but Kasten's Plan is keeping them from spending any serious $$$. Weaver will be lucky to get a minor-league deal now.

by jdonels on Mar 16, 2008 11:27 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

dumb luck

looks to me that it was our luck and every other gm's dumbness that netted us lohse.  if not for the mention last week that lohse was entertaining one year offers, i would say this was like our non-signing of eck... everyone assumed only a multi-year contract would do.  however, once that info was out, we were the gamblin'est club in the race.  amazingly, our need of starting pitching at the eleventh hour didn't hurt us more financially.and for the record, brut is a style.  dom perignon is a label.  there are good bruts out there that are a better value for the money than dom.  we signed the $16 brut pitcher instead of the $180 good but not amazing dom perignon.

Rabid Redbird

by gthedamned on Mar 16, 2008 8:04 AM EDT   0 recs

Champagne

Agree on the brut vs dom. In fact, Dom Perignon is Brut style (at least the ones I've seen). I hope the new website style goes down like Dom P and not, say, Andre ($5 or so at your local beverage store and sure to turn you off to champagne forever).

by Fred Head on Mar 16, 2008 11:46 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Andre

that's the one I was trying to think of, but couldn't. Thanks.

by houstoncardinal on Mar 16, 2008 11:57 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Has to be the Boras factor

Seems like the last few years, Boras has pulled one of these hold out
stunts, and each year someone, (usually the Tigers) bails him out at the
last minute. This year no one did. Too bad.

Now I just hope that Lohse can get ready with what is now a very
abbreviated two week spring training.

by O'Fallon Park on Mar 16, 2008 9:21 AM EDT   0 recs

off topic but

In this mornings post "La Russa claimed Ryan has endured "a more erratic spring at short" than Izturis."

Yeah, Ryan has been both good and and bad = erratic
Izturis has not been erratic, just consistently bad

who will be the new MV3?

by sprfldcard on Mar 16, 2008 9:31 AM EDT   0 recs

I agree

I was sort of a fan of the signing better defense(?) and an blah stick. Which maid the trade of rolen, easier because he would have to make up the range of eck. Last year i was a big fan of giving the job to ryan for this year. Actually i still am now because iz2 has not produce on defense or hitting (isn't his avg .100). 4mil vs. 275k you do the math.

"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell

by elirock83 on Mar 16, 2008 10:19 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree with you completely ...

I lost a little of my respect for Tony this morning over his comments on Brendan Ryan ... I honestly think it's a personality thing ... he doesn't like Ryan's 'Dizziness'. But to keep defending Izturis's downright shitty play is indefensible. I understand that having a quality defender at SS is extremely important for a staff built toward the ground ball, but I have yet to see Isturis provide this skill ... he needs to be sat on the bench as a backup or DFA'ed ... Using Tony's own words when speaking up for Barton, "I prefer the club that gives you the best chance to win. When there's a young player and he's the best, he goes". Applying this to SS, to say Izturis is better than Ryan, based on what I've seen on the field, is utter bullshit ... but Tony can be full of it at times ... I just wish Izturis would start doing something to prove me wrong sometime soon ...

Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...

by Cardinals4Ever on Mar 16, 2008 12:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, you know that Ryan

is annoying, he sits in the wrong seat on the team bus, he has to have his suglasses taken out to him, has time management problems, and is a bundle of frenetic energy. There is no way Mr. LaRussa can work around these problems, just no way. They only pay him $4 million a year. You can't expect him to work around this talented but less than perfect young man. You just can't. Besides, he's seen Mr. Izturas's "soft hands" and he knows those aren't errors. Because Mr. Izturas is a former gold glover. Let's see if Mr. Mozeliak will force him to do the right thing. Me, I'm not holding my breath..........

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Mar 16, 2008 2:35 PM EDT to parent up   1 recs

Oopsie! I mean "Mr. Izturis" not "Mr. Izturas"

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Mar 16, 2008 3:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I posted a reply on my Fanpost on this very subject...

...before taking a gander at today's comments. You folks have this subject taken care of already. You can tell that TLR went to law school because his tests and precedents set as manager only go as far as the current situation.

He feels guilty over Ankiel and plays him frequently. Chris Duncan is Dave's son, so he gets major innings despite horrid OF defense. (I would like to point out that I don't disagree with the playing time given to either and would have liked more Duncan sooner. I'm just pointing to what I perceived to be TLR's motivations.) Brendan Ryan is an idiot so we get Cesar Izturis as our starting SS.

So much for favoring the roster that gives us the best chance to win. No matter how you slice it, Izturis is not on that imaginary roster.

by bgh on Mar 16, 2008 3:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lohse

I really don't think that it was a matter of collusion per se: I think it was more a matter of the uncreative, monkey see monkey do approach that most teams can't break out of. If other teams are spending big money on mediocre free agents then by golly we will too. This year the mantra was that the FA options were poor and Lohse would get over paid so most teams never took a second look. I'm not sure we should praise our own GM that much as he needed to be knocked over the head by all the injuries to inquire about the guy. I'm included in this. Having seen Lohse at Minnesota I advocated here that we shouldn't pursue him. At this price though, I wish we had an option on a second year.
I'm also somewhat contrite about Cesar. I supported the signing but, at this point, he looks every bit as bad as he's been the last couple of years. If he doesn't play very good shortstop he's a waste.

by easy on Mar 16, 2008 10:50 AM EDT   0 recs

It's easy to blame it on Boras, and I do think he was part of the problem.

But, Lohse had some clubhouse issues in Minnesota. You have to wonder why the Phillies didn't persue him. Their pitching staff is in shambles right now.

I'm not saying I disagree with the signing. It seems like we're getting a good deal. We need someone that can take the innings and league average is better than the Fogg's, Wells, and Tomko's of the world......

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Mar 16, 2008 11:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Cesar

We get him to do one thing and he can't even do that right. Ryan must really get under Tony's skin.

[Homer shows Bart "Wonderbat".]
Bart: Wow. How many home runs you gonna hit with that thing?
Homer: Let's see... We play thirty games. Ten at-bats a game. Mm...three thousand.

by boog on Mar 16, 2008 1:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

How many other teams

could sign Lohse and immediately name him the #2 pitcher?

Nuthin'....I got nuthin'over here.

by Handsome Jimmy on Mar 16, 2008 10:55 AM EDT   0 recs

Gameday link?

anyone?

Start Skippy!

by stltrav09 on Mar 16, 2008 1:31 PM EDT   0 recs

Gameday Link

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/y2007/gd.html?2008_03_16_atlmlb_slnmlb_1&brand=mlb

Also, this game is televised on News Channel 5 (St Louis area, not sure what the station is really. I just see that on the screen.) And Channel 17 down here in the Springfield Area for Dish subscribers.

by mynameistyler on Mar 16, 2008 1:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

dunno what has gotten into kennedy

but I'm going to have to consider changing my signature if he keeps this up...

by SleepyCA on Mar 16, 2008 2:51 PM EDT   0 recs

Kennedy

Looks like a different player compared to last year's incarnation.

Spring: .324 BA / .343. OBP / .353 SLG

That's a better streak of 34 ABs than he had all of last year, I'd wager. He looks like a different player. Hopefully surgery and rehab did him sustainable good and that this Spring Training is a sign of things to come. If Kennedy is hitting, we'll see a lot less of Miles (hopefully).

Meanwhile, this spring Miles looks like the same ol' contact hitter who has to hit .300+ to be of even marginal value. Right now, he's managed a .161 spring BA, with a walk rate (.138) that is far disproportional to his career rate (.055) and nearly double his career high (.081) from '06. I'm betting his walk rate depreciates while his average improves, but not in a way that provides us with a valuable offensive middle IF.

Oh Grudz, how I miss thee...

by bgh on Mar 16, 2008 3:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yes

though kennedy's .324/.343/.353 is about as "empty" as an offensive line gets ;) But he started off slow as well. He's hitting .500/.500/.600 in his last 6 games (20PA).

play skip at second base

by SleepyCA on Mar 16, 2008 3:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Every possible middle IF

is hollow. But, hey, at least they have grit!

25th out of 30 teams in 2Bmen OPS last year, and this season isn't looking any better.

The only silverish lining is that Kennedy can't possibly do worse than last year's fall of a cliff, right?

by bgh on Mar 16, 2008 4:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What Sig?

It doesn't seem your signature transfered to the new format, either that or you already changed it.

by StLHugo on Mar 16, 2008 3:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

kennedy

dont worry Sleepy, i wont let you down either.

signed tony womack

by sean in the mo on Mar 16, 2008 3:11 PM EDT   0 recs

Duncan v. LaRussa

What will be higher by the time Spring Training is over:

Duncan's 2008 Spring Training Batting Average (currently .042), or

LaRussa's 2007 Spring Training Blood Alochol Content (.093)

by mwinf12 on Mar 16, 2008 3:21 PM EDT   0 recs

Below the Belt

I don't mean to stick up for TLR because driving drunk is an incredibly irresponsible act, but bashing him over the head with his mistake is neither necessary nor productive.

As for Duncan's AVG, we should be happy. All of those hits he has proven capable of getting will come to us in the regular season as his AVG evens out.

by bgh on Mar 16, 2008 3:30 PM EDT to parent up   1 recs

Have to agree

It was pretty funny. BTW, love the avatar there Lopey... ;-)

"A hot dog at the ball game beats roast beef at the Ritz."- Humphrey Bogart

by iron duke75 on Mar 16, 2008 6:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Jeez

Never thought I'd be excited about adding Kyle Lohse to our rotation, but damned if I aint. Something needed to be done, and I believe Mo did about the best thing possible for the time being.

by rockin redbird on Mar 16, 2008 6:55 PM EDT   0 recs

Love what you've done with the place!

Very cool new format, lboros.

And it worries me how much better the Lohse signing makes the rotation - that really shows how bad things are right now. But hope springs eternal - every team has a shot in the Central.

by birdjam on Mar 16, 2008 8:55 PM EDT   0 recs

houstoncardinals

just to let you know, Al over at BCB, wasn't particularly kind in evaluating your post today.

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2008/3/16/13442/8554

Al is usually a decently classy guy, so I don't know what would cause him to respond in that way.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 17, 2008 3:03 AM EDT   0 recs

seriously Hardcore,

what do you expect from a cub fan?

besides, who cares what they say or think? we are the Cardinals. we are now, & will always be the better team.

take the high road like us Cardinal fans are known to do & just ignore their ignorance.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson

by gdm426 on Mar 17, 2008 3:09 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

not sure either

He says I tried to make the case that Lohse was a good pitcher. Did I do that? I don't really think so. Nevertheless, this was a very good signing by Mo even if it only provides us a pretty good prospect when he trades him (hopefully) this July. I still find it interesting that no one else, including many who could have used Lohse, decided to sign him for a relatively small salary.

by houstoncardinal on Mar 17, 2008 11:46 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

great first topic Htown

way to start things off right. we all know Lohse won't be Cy Young, but (if he stays healthy) he'll get the job done. which is eat innings & (hopefully) not give up too many runs. i still don't expect Carp or Mildew to do anything positive this season. it's sad, but you just can't trust the Cards medical staff. so with that being said, i think Lohse will stay as the staff's #2 starter all season long.

about the topic of collusion, i'm all for a good conspiracy theory. but man i just don't see it. why would most of the GM's & owner punish a guy who has nothing to do with Boris being a super assgent? it just seams unusually cruel to mess with a guys life & family just because he has a jerk for an agent. i mean i know the powerful men who are GM's & owners have giant ego's & feel like they can almost do whatever they want. but would they really go out of their way to punish a guy who can only be called an average major league starter?

one more thing, apparently boog, aka brendan ryan is under notice from the Cardinals to shape up. anyone that listens to St Louis's 1380 AM morning show knows that he's kind of a wild child. meaning he's more than a little irresponsible. he doesn't even have his own car down in spring training, he's been depending on teammates & the media to get him to camp every day. now does that sound like a guy who's ready to take over as the Cardinals starting SS? yeah i didn't think so. and that's his biggest knock against him, he's a good dude, he really is. but he just needs to grow up. if he would, then Tony would have no problem starting him every day. but until that happens, he'll be in not just Tony's dog house, but the Cardinals dog house as well.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson

by gdm426 on Mar 17, 2008 3:33 AM EDT   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.
Ad-medium-smq

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Buzz Bissinger goes off on Will Leitch of deadspin.com or my uninformed, disjointed, mispelled rant for blogs
100_27_0106_106_small
One Year Ago

Recent FanPosts

Milelr_small
Closer Candidates
Duncan_small
Rumors flying: Chris Perez called up!?
Img_1558_small
For Izzy.
Small
Redbirds in Vegas
Fairlawncardinalslogo_small
Classic Cardinal: George Hendrick
Small
Parisi
Cowcartoon1_small
A Great Article on Rick Ankiel....
9_small
Jimmy Edmonds...released??
Small
Rockies inquire about AReyes
Small
Cardinals throwing fewer changeups.

Post New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini


Ad-banner-faketeams