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nothing to lohse

we switch platforms in two days. remember, the site will be down for a little while on saturday morning (not more than an hour or two, if all goes well), and then the get-started post will appear with a few instructions and what not. farewell to ye olde platform; this is my last post in it.

if the cardinals sign kyle lohse (which they should do), i wouldn't expect him to turn the club into a serious contender. that's not the reason you go out and sign him. the reason you sign him is to keep other guys from having to take on roles they're not ready for, roles that don't give them their best chance to succeed. you sign him so guys like parisi and mclellan can pitch regularly at triple A instead of sporadically out of the bullpen in st louis; so they can work on their secondary pitches and round out their games instead of just trying to survive against big-league hitters. committing to youth doesn't simply mean throwing young guys into the big-league lineup; it means creating pathways for them to reach the big leagues and moving them up when they are ready. it might be argued that parisi can learn just as much as a big-league mop-up man (with big-league coaching) as he can by repeating triple A; he's about to turn 25 and has thrown 550 minor-league innings, 315 of them against elite minor-league competition (ie double A or above). i'd rather he had at least another 10 starts at memphis to work on that changeup of his, but it's debatable how much he would benefit from further seasoning. mclellan, though, has only thrown 30 innings against elite minor-league competition (ie, double A or above). he has only made 12 starts in the last 4 years at any level. if the long-range goal is to have him contend for a spot in the rotation, then in the short run the only thing to do is give him some starts --- at memphis.

which is why you sign lohse. that enables thompson or wellemeyer to go back into the bullpen and reduces the imperative to fill the mop-up role with a not-quite-ready-for-prime-time rookie.

i've written elsewhere about the striking similarity between lohse today and jeff suppan at the time the cards signed him; let me repeat those numbers:

gs w-l era whip k/9 hr/9
suppan thru 2003 206 62-75 4.90 1.423 5.0 1.2
lohse thru 2007 195 63-74 4.82 1.432 5.7 1.2

and here's a table comparing lohse over the last three seasons (2005-07) to the pitcher he'd ostensibly replace, joel pineiro:

gs ip w-l era whip k/9 hr/9
lohse 2005-07 81 498 23-35 4.77 1.432 5.5 1.1
pineiro 2005-07 66 452 22-29 5.61 1.523 5.1 1.2

now, it's true that pineiro spent all but two months in the dh league over that span, whereas lohse spent half of his time in the non-dh league; that explains part (though not all) of lohse's numerical advantage. but pineiro has performed almost entirely in pitcher's parks, while lohse has pitched predominantly in hitter's parks. it's hard to look at those numbers and conclude that pineiro is a significantly better bet than kyle lohse --- if we're generous to pineiro, we might say he's about as good. insofar as lohse will cost about the same as pineiro for 2008 but won't also require an $8 million guarantee for 2009, as joel did . . . . i mean, what the hell's left to discuss? this is a test of the ownership. if the cards don't sign this guy, then maybe dewitt's really as big a cheapskate as his worst critics say.

a few notes about Bird Land's early look at the minor-league assignments:

  • mark worrell, we hardly knew ye. despite pitching well at triple A last year and getting added to the 40-man roster, he has been busted back down to double A --- passed by motte, perez, et al. i guess he didn't make much of an impression on tony n dave earlier this spring.
  • for the first time in a couple years, the cards won't have anybody opening the year at double A who came from the previous year's draft --- not, at least, unless mortensen and / or jess todd ends up there. in 2006 nick stavinoha (7th round in the 2005 draft) made that transition; last year john jay (2d round, 2006) did it, although injuries forced him to the DL and, eventually, back down to high A. the 2007 draft is well represented on the palm beach roster. half a dozen of last year's selections --- daniel descalso (3d round), oliver marmol (6th), tyler henley (8th round), stephen hill (13th), arnoldi cruz (26th), and nick derba (30th) --- are already penciled in there, and they may well be joined by mortensen todd and / or kopp (all from the first 2 rounds).
  • another noteworthy item about palm beach: a couple of the "tools" draftees (tommy pham and jonathan edwards) apparently will be there, leapfrogging low-A. pham still hasn't gained any traction; he went .205 / .283 / .305 in short-season A last year as a 19-year-old. edwards (also 19 last year) showed a bit more promise at that level, .245 / .345 / .431; all the same, high A seems like an awful big jump for these guys. they'll be joined there by another tools project, daryl jones, who advances despite a .217 / .304 .296 line at low A.
  • even with the losses (to promotion) of rasmus, jose martinez, chris perez, and mitch boggs, the springfield roster looks loaded with interesting players: bryan anderson, mark hamilton, john jay, allen craig, ottavino, pj walters. a guy i'd like to learn a bit more about is dan nelson, the second-baseman --- 13th-rounder from the ill-famed 2004 draft. i kind of wonder if he might be this year's jarrett hoffpauir --- has a very good batting eye, hasn't shown a lot of power or ability to hit for average. he draws enough walks that with a .280 average he'd top .400 in obp. he's moving from an extreme pitcher's park at palm beach to a hitter's park in springfield; when jose martinez made that transition last year, his stats took a giant leap forward. compare his trajectory to hoffpauir's and martinez's, particularly their lines at palm beach . . . . . i'll be keeping an eye on this guy.
here's today's gameday link; the cardinals play the mets, with looper getting the start.

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that is spooky
I am ready to sign him. Thompson & Wellemeyer can be bullpen/spot starters I think that helps the team more. I am also a believer that you can't have too many starters.
"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell

by elirock83 on Mar 13, 2008 10:09 AM EDT   0 recs

Sorry
Don't have much to add about Lohse that hasn't been said already over last couple days and in the past.

Got any thoughts on Mo's interview Larry?

O/T:  Anyone see that brawl between the Yanks and the Rays?   Been some bad blood brewing between those two for a few years now.  Had quite a few bean ball episodes when Lou was still coachin.

This seemed to stem from a play at the plate a week or so ago.   A kid trying to impress lowered his shoulder at the catcher.  It resulted in a fracture to the catcher.   The Yanks said it was uncalled for, but I didn't see it that way.  The kid was young and trying to impress, not some 8 year vet going through ST paces.  It was just a hard-nosed play.  

This spiking incident by Shelley Duncan was way out of line, IMO.  It was after the play, cleats up into the groin and leg.   Bush league.  Dave, you should be proud...one kid who humps the World Series trophey and another who goes in cleats up.  Guess all that talk about playing the game the right way didn't get passed on to your kids?  

Gomes seemed to be the first out and leveled Shelly.  I've advocated trading for him over several seasons.  I think he is greatly underrated, especially by his own management/team.   He would be a nice RH outfielder, although defensively challenged.  

Here's a video clip.

by RedbirdRay on Mar 13, 2008 10:21 AM EDT   0 recs

re Mo's interview
i was sorry that a number of the inquirers assailed him with such discourtesy; if he were dave littlefield that'd be one thing, but mo inherited a mess and hasn't had much time to sort it out yet. it's fair to question some of mo's moves --- i've questioned some of them too. undoubtedly some of them will prove to be mistakes. but he's made at least as many sound decisions as unsound ones, imho. and in any case, the tone of some of those questions yesterday was way out of line. mozeliak generally didn't take the bait, which speaks well of him.

as to the overall content ---- most of it seemed pretty boilerplate to me. it's amusing that VEB worked its way in there; mom, you really shouldn't have asked mo that question, you're embarrassing me again in front of my friends . . . .

by lboros on Mar 13, 2008 3:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

As I said yesterday...
I think it is a credit to him that he agreed to do the chat...I'm sure he has more important things to attend to, but that he thought enough of the fan base to take some time out to interact with some of us is a good thing, and it bodes well for his relationship with the paying customers.

But it brings up a major issue I have always had with things such as these.  The internet is a fantastic tool that allows you to do things like ask questions of the general manager of your favorite MLB team.  You couldn't do that when I was younger, unless you ran into him somewhere. But it emboldens people to say the kind of things you wouldn't say to  another individual if you saw them on the street. I know you (Larry) have had to call out certain posters on VEB from time to time, but the discourse here is pretty tame compared to what I've seen, and sure many others of you have seen, on other bulletin boards and chat sites. The crazies really come out, and they don't mind being insulting or profane or obnoxious.  That's one of the reasons I enjoy VEB.  There are certainly disagreements, but for the most part, people remain respectful of each other.  I congratulate all of you for that.

Regardless of what Mozeliak has or hasn't done in his time on the job, it does not call for a tone of disrespect, as was evident from a number of people yesterday.  The man is no fool, and despite what he went through yesterday, the fact that he expressed a willingness to do a chat again is a sign, I dearly hope, that the organization in general is more receptive to fan input that we often give them credit for.

by tbell61 on Mar 13, 2008 4:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lohse would set up a July trade or two
By signing Lohse now, the Cardinals could have a surplus of starters before the July trading deadline:

Carpenter
Mulder
Clement
Wainwright
Lohse

Pineiro
Reyes
Thompson
Wellemeyer
Looper

Waiting in the wings: Parisi, Garcia, and others

The Cardinals could trade one or more experienced starters in July (depending on how healthy and effective Mulder, Clement, and Carpenter are by then) to reinforce the team for 2009 and beyond.

Good pitching will always stop good hitting, and vice versa. ~ Casey Stengel

by CardsWin on Mar 13, 2008 10:25 AM EDT   0 recs

This team
will never have a surplus of starters, mainly because they can't keep enough of them healthy to fill out a rotation.
"The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it."

by cardsrul on Mar 13, 2008 1:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My thoughts too...
I see little downside to adding Lohse for the $5M or so it would take to get him. There is little opportunity cost because we don't have the young arms to stretch into the rotation (unless we are really itching to see Mike Parisi start). The $5M should fit the budget. And a guy like him should have some trade value come the ASB. If he experiences a Suppan-like tranformation, then I would imagine that we would have the inside track on extending him.

by Hungry Jack on Mar 13, 2008 2:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

A surplus of starters by the July trading deadline
By mid-season, we could see this rotation:
Carpenter
Mulder
Clement
Wainwright
Lohse

In the worst case scenario now, the best three among Pineiro, Reyes, Wellemeyer, Thompson, and Looper could step in if Mulder, Carpenter, or Clement all failed to regain their health and effectiveness.  And McClellan or Garcia or Parisi could add reinforcement from AAA.  They all have looked very good this spring.  

Good pitching will always stop good hitting, and vice versa. ~ Casey Stengel

by CardsWin on Mar 13, 2008 5:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmmm,
3 weeks ago I was completely against signing Lohse. Right now I think we absolutely have to. With only 2 healthy arms that are "proven" starters, and saying Looper is proven is a stretch of the word, we need someone to take some innings.

I do have to disagree with some of your reasoning. I don't like the comparison to Suppan. While their numbers may be similiar as you pointed out, they are very different pitchers. Lohse has great stuff and scouts view his performance to date as not living up to his potential, Suppan on the other hand has never been a guy that people have expected great things from. In fact, most would say that Suppan has overachieved and Lohse has underachieved through their careers. So, i think that's an apples and oranges comparison of starting pitchers.

I do like the idea that come august the rotation could have 7 healthy canidates. Wainwright, Looper, Mulder, Clement, Carpenter, Pinero, Reyes, and the possibilty of Lohse. those are some nice options. That also makes for quite a sunny 2009. With a couple of nice offseason additions next year, and a summer of getting healthy, the Cardinals could be a monster team again, and this "rebuilding" will look a lot more like reloading.

by stickman179 on Mar 13, 2008 10:35 AM EDT   0 recs

Could rebuilding actually turn into reloading?
I agree with you, stickman.  The upside potential for this team is much higher than people have estimated, I think.  I'd predict a winning record at least.  

If Clement or Mulder came back strong and Carpenter did, too, in July (if Pedro Martinez could last year, why not Carp this year?), then the Cards could even contend for the NL Central championship (sorta like the amazing surprise of September to October 2006, "deja vu all over again").

Supposse we think of Lohse as the replacement for Kip Wells and Mike Maroth.  Just in the games which Kip Wells started in 2007 the Cardinal run differential was -79.  In games started by Mike Maroth the differential was -25.  By odd coincidence, those two differentials add up to -104, exactly equal to the Cardinals' run differential for 2007.  (In the three starts by Mulder, who was much too weak to have rejoined the team when he did, the cardinals had an additional 13-run negative differential.)

The Cardinals' record in games Kip Wells started in 2007 was 6-19 in 25 games.  If an average pitcher had been in his place, that record could easily have been 12-13, a 6 game improvement, for an overall record of 84 wins.  That would have put the Cardinals one game behind the Cubs at the end of the season.  The Cardinals record in games Mike Maroth started was 2-5.  An average pitcher would likely have enabled the Cardinals to have a 3-4 record, at least.  That extra win would have put the Cardinals in a tie with the Cubs at the end of the regular season.  The Cardinals lost all three of Mulder's starts last year.  All else being equal, winning even one of those three games, with an average starter rather than the weak, still injured Mulder, would have made the Cardinals the NL Central champs.  

In games which Wells and Maroth did not start in 2007, the Cardinals had a .538 winning percentage.  Considering that the sabermatricians predict that the Cardinals will score a few more runs this year than last (offensive production should be better this year from LF, CF, RF, 3B, and 2B and not as good at SS and C), it seems to be a good bet that the Cardinals will have a winning rate this season a bit higher than their .538 rate last year in games Wells and Maroth did not start.  

A .538 record is very unlikely to win the division or the wild card, but at least it would be respectable.  If Mulder, Clement, and Carpenter all come back strong, the Cardinals could actually contend.  

Good pitching will always stop good hitting, and vice versa. ~ Casey Stengel

by CardsWin on Mar 13, 2008 5:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lohse will give ya INNINGS...
which is what this team needs at this point! There's an immense difference between asking either Reyes, Wellemeyer, or Thompson to start and asking Reyes, Wellemeyer, AND Thompson ALL to start!

Another example of "ya never have too much pitching"...

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Mar 13, 2008 10:43 AM EDT   0 recs

OT
I was just reading Strauss' blog at Bird Land.  Are we really going to bat Ankiel cleanup?  Wow.

by bdub78 on Mar 13, 2008 10:54 AM EDT   0 recs

MGL has said a few times
There's no reason to have same-handed batters bat next to each other, platoon advantage late in games is bigger than lineup construction.  Glaus might get fewer AB's over the season if it stays like that but he'll likely see more lefties/Ankiel righties.
With no evidence to the contrary: Colby Rasmus is clutch.

by joker24 on Mar 13, 2008 11:31 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

about lohse and suppan
one thing to remember is that our defense was better in 04-06 than it is now.  so lohse wouldn't be as set up to succeed the way soup was.  but lohse does give innings.  and who knows, perhaps the defense will get better this year.  i don't see a return to previous levels, but certainly better than 07.

by mdarshan on Mar 13, 2008 11:03 AM EDT   0 recs

Yesterday
I posted a link to Red Barrons report card that Mo liked. So today I decided to take a look back and see if I posted on that string. I did and it was a joke post, imagine that. Here it is.

Lboros
Did I read that right yesterday, you have Jeff Luhnows E-mail address?
Come on man, you've got to give that up.

Post it right here>>>>>>>

I've got to tell him about this player I saw last week in small town in Northern Mexico. He is best I've ever seen!!! Clocked his fastball at 108MPH and he hits like Albert!!!!

Sorry no sabermetrics on him, it's a real small town and his team stinks. They only have 8 players, 2 of them are women, and they had a goat playing third base.

But I'm telling you this guy is KING KONG!!!!!!

Now the front office is asking us to scout for them. They couldn't have gotten the idea from my little old joke could they? Naw, can't be.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"-George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Mar 13, 2008 11:32 AM EDT   0 recs

sign the goat

then buy him a ticket to a game at Wrigley

by random on Mar 16, 2008 2:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lohse
We really need to sign Lohse....there is just so much uncertainty in this rotation.  We need someone who can give us some stability.  If that is Lohse or if thats Weaver doesnt matter both will give you innings.  I am inclined to think Lohse will do better than Weaver though.  

So PLEASE Mo sign Lohse!!!!!!!!

by Calhoun on Mar 13, 2008 11:38 AM EDT   0 recs

agreed
Lohse sounds like a good option at this point.  Why not take a guy for a 1 year look.  He is an experienced starter who you can at least count on for going out and giving league average starts.  He appears healthy.  Looks like he has never hit the DL in his 7 year career, so it's not like the Cards would be looking at a health risk.  Every pitcher has the chance to get hurt, but at least he is not hurt going into the season.

by ICbirdfan on Mar 13, 2008 11:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

heh
which will probably preclude him from our plans. the cards are hoping to start a new series on HGTV called "reclamation project"

by baw on Mar 13, 2008 12:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lohse is on his way
He is happy I know to be playing for the Cards.  He will suprise every Cards fan me thinks.
Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Mar 13, 2008 1:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sign him now
before a bidding war starts with other teams facing injury problems.  Boras is probably waiting this out to see who else jumps in before he starts the auction again.  I believe with 3 teams interested it will take more than a 1 year deal to get Lohse.

by Jumsy on Mar 13, 2008 12:30 PM EDT   0 recs

3 teams
are the Giants, Rangers, and Cardinals.

by Jumsy on Mar 13, 2008 12:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That must've been
the phone call he made yesterday when he postponed an interview Mike Tirico and Michelle Tafoya for an hour.
"The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it."

by cardsrul on Mar 13, 2008 1:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lbros
i loved this article because of your thoughts about the young guys taking roles they shouldnt. You don't hear a ton of analysis like that...thought it was cool.
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Mar 13, 2008 12:52 PM EDT   0 recs

Larry, that Palm Beach roster is not set in stone
In fact all the minor league rosters will need to be trimmed, just like that of the parent club.  I would not expect Edwards, Pham, and some of the others you mention to stick with Palm Beach, any more than I expect Mortenson to open the season in St. Louis.
  I do agree completely with what you say about Lohse and DeWitt.  A team cannot go for two consecutive years constructing a starting staff with papier mache and wishful thinking, i.e., broken-down arms and converted relievers, while dismissing just about every free agent as too expensive or no better than what we already have.  Eventually the piper must be paid.  That time is now.

by MikeG on Mar 13, 2008 12:54 PM EDT   0 recs

Yes,
the 6th to 9th hitting slots is a big,big problem that is definitely going to have to be adressed. I can't watch that all year.

by ridgesee on Mar 13, 2008 5:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Silver lining?
At least I'll know when to get a beer when the Cards are batting....
Personally, I think we got hosed on that call.

by cardsfanindenver on Mar 13, 2008 6:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

More Lohse v. Pineiro
Just a few details left out of that statisical comparison...

In 2004, Piniero pitched injured most of the season before being shut down in July (sore elbow; insert cringe here). He came back in 2005 and 2006 to have his worst years as a starter at Safeco Field, a pitcher's park. He started 25 games in 2006 before being moved to the bullpen, where he appeared in 15 more games before Seattle gave up on him and his 6.36 ERA. The two seasons before then, Pineiro had been a top-of-the-rotation pitcher, whose ERA had been below 4.00 both years (3.24 and 3.78). He appeared in 31 games and pitched 34 innings for the Red Sox last year, pitching better (5.03) than his nadir season despite being in the biggest hitter's park in the league. Of course, we all know what happened when he came to St. Louis, which turned his 2007 line to a 4.33 ERA and 1.392 WHIP in 97 INP.

Lohse, meanwhile, has been healthy and mostly below league average with some dips into the woeful. In 2006 (was this a bad year for pitchers?), he started 34 games but only pitched 126.2 innings between Minnesota and Cincinnati, earning a 5.83 ERA. He did better the last season and a half in a hitter's park, but after his trade struggled in his 61 innings in Philly, supposedly a park kinder to pitchers than Cincy's (Citizens Bank Park was about in the middle in park factors last year). Before the three years lboros quoted, Lohse's average ERA was about 4.73 ERA and a 1.431 WHIP in the three seasons in Minnesota.

Basically, Pitcher 1 is a former top-rotation guy who struggled with his mechanics and confidence for two seasons while being bounced to the bullpen before pitching very well in limited starting action last year (about a third of a normal starter's year). Pitcher 2 is a durable guy who's somewhere south of medicore on his best day. It's not really fair to compare the two's stats as if they had the same experiences in the same parks in the same leagues facing the same batters in the same situations. I really don't agree that Lohse is a better pitcher than Pineiro; if we're talking about predictablity, sure, but only because Lohse is predictably bad whereas Pineiro shows at times (like his 11 games last season) that he can be a better pitcher his overall stats say he is.

That said, it is Lohse's durability that is attractive. In fact, it's the only thing that's real attractive to me. If Lohse was still looking a multi-year deal or anything more than $5 million, even at this point I'd hang up the phone. But lboro's main point--that this is about protecting the young arms like McClellan, Garcia, and Parisi--is still a problem that has to be dealt with.

The real question is whether Lohse solves that. Signing him now doesn't fill the hole in the rotation during the first month of the season; Lohse has missed all of spring training and has to be physically up to speed. The danger of exposure is still there, Lohse or not. Lohse's durability definitely would help by taking the stress off of the spot starter guys, but not until the end April, probably.

by Forsch31 on Mar 13, 2008 1:09 PM EDT   0 recs

lohse
I know that Lohse is going to be behind . . . but surely the guy has enough sense to have been throwing--a lot.  As if he were in spring training.  I know that he hasn't faced hitters but I gotta think that he would be throwing so that his arm strenth is there--but you would have assumed that with Clement to.  You know the old saying about assume--doing it makes an ass out of u and me.  
Here's to the hopeful resurection of the MV3

by SprfldCards on Mar 13, 2008 1:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lohse is on his way
Boras has a baseball facility in SoCal that lohse has been at for two weeks.  Live hitters and all.  He will be ready to play.
Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Mar 13, 2008 1:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

readiness
If that is his state of readiness, then signing him makes a great deal more sense.
Here's to the hopeful resurection of the MV3

by SprfldCards on Mar 13, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

good...
I can't believe Im actually excited about Lohse coming. It takes care of at least part of one problem and leaves the focus on the infield and 6-9 slots. We still have to score runs, Mo and TLR have to be thinking about a timeline for when to pull the plug on Izturis or Kennedy IF they dont hit. For me, thats the day after the two exhibition games in Spgfld.
"We collect players that can hit and play 1st Base, but sorta play in the outfield most of the time." "Also, relievers that start!"

by cardschinmusic on Mar 14, 2008 7:35 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lineup
I hope todays lineup isnt a gel day for the expected opening day lineup (because that is what it appears to be). If this is what it is going to be, all of my ST optimism is quickly being squelched.
Cards fan banished to NH

by t7rick on Mar 13, 2008 1:24 PM EDT   0 recs

That was a BIG at bat for Adam ...
I wish it had gone the other way ... he's still coming along though ...
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...

by Cardinals4Ever on Mar 13, 2008 1:29 PM EDT   0 recs

shocking news
brian walton reports that Juan Gonzales is sidelined with a "mild abdominal strain".  Says he might be back Friday.
play skip at second base.

by SleepyCA on Mar 13, 2008 1:41 PM EDT   0 recs

juan
if he starts to hurting maybe they well put him on the dl to start the season?
"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell

by elirock83 on Mar 13, 2008 2:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

more likely...
That they would send him to AAA. That way they do not have to put him on the 40 man roster. He is on a minor league deal so they can send him to AAA without him passing through waivers.

by indakind on Mar 13, 2008 2:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What a surprise ...
Izturis grounds out weakly to SS ... sub .100 avg again ... did anyone catch Tony's glowing praise of this guy in the P-D today? ... did anyone else have flashbacks to Tony's glowing praise of Encarnacion last season ... talk about defending mediocrity ...
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...

by Cardinals4Ever on Mar 13, 2008 1:45 PM EDT   0 recs

I missed
the "glowing" praise. And, to be fair, Juan is a lot better player than Cesar.
SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Mar 13, 2008 3:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

it was in gordon's article
TLR has completely lost it.  link.
play skip at second base.

by SleepyCA on Mar 13, 2008 3:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

In Juan's case...
he was pretty much an average corner outfielder, maybe a little below but not much. In this case, Izturis is pretty much the worst player in all of baseball. There's no comparison.

by DiscoJer on Mar 13, 2008 4:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Izturis
Is batting your pitcher 8th really some sort of genius when your pitcher is a better hitter than your number 9 guy?

by RedbirdRay on Mar 13, 2008 1:48 PM EDT   0 recs

Duncan
I haven't seen this discussed much here but at what point to we start to worry about Duncan?  He's batting .059 now and is striking out a lot (don't know the exact # but it seems like he's striking out a lot.)

Has he hit a wall?  A prolonged slump from the 2nd half of last season?  

Perhaps those who wanted him traded last off-season and during the trade deadline last year were right...

Unofficial President of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club

by stltrav09 on Mar 13, 2008 1:49 PM EDT   0 recs

He's been injured
with the back problems.  That has his swing 'off' right now.

He'll be fine.

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 13, 2008 1:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Just checked the stats...
only 17 at-bats.  Maybe it's too early to worry.  He does have 6 BB's which is a good sign.  
Unofficial President of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club

by stltrav09 on Mar 13, 2008 1:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Skippy having a scrappy
at-bat, rolling singles between infielders.  No way he doesn't make the team now. His scrap+slap quotient is at +25.47.  That's only second to Miles on the team.

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 13, 2008 2:03 PM EDT   0 recs

Please post the formula for calculating
s+s.  That way we can track it for all our favorite scrubbies.  It may very well be our biggest entertainment this season.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Mar 13, 2008 2:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's fairly simple
(foul balls+hbp+sacrafice bunts)/ total pitches x (base hits that touch infield first + singles the other way) / (dirt on uniform - inning achieved in) + (play not made in zone x late throws)

That's usually the way I see it calculated but I know that there has been a movement since Eckstein's record setting 2006 World Series to re-evaluate the calculations are made.

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 13, 2008 2:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

the new formula
includes a tobacco-spittle-on-uniform quotient

by lboros on Mar 13, 2008 3:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm pretty sure
that height and skin pigmentation are in there somewhere too.

by arch support on Mar 13, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It was
until the 2006 World Series.  Eckstein was able to set his record +64.72 during that series based on his whiteness and shortness.  Many called that an antiquated way to evaluate a players scrapiness.

It's an evolving metric.  What's important is, though, is that LaRussa is on the cutting edge of using it.

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 13, 2008 3:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

but yet
many of the same people poking fun of this say LaRussa doesn't like Brendan Ryan when he fits this thing to a T.
SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Mar 13, 2008 3:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Too much power
Ryan hits too many balls in the gap and pulls too many pitches.  He severly suffers in the 'slap other way' and 'base hits touch infield' section of the equation.

He also makes too many plays inside his zone and has too strong of an arm.

by Hardcore Legend on Mar 13, 2008 3:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

plus he's wayyyy too big
ryan is listed at 6'2", 195. the upper limits are 5'9 1/2" and 167 pounds.

by lboros on Mar 13, 2008 3:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

based on sightings
Jarrett Hoffpauir should fit right in, I hear he is somehow smaller than Aaron Miles.

Maybe he didn't play this spring because when TLR looked down the bench for replacement players he did not see him.

by ICbirdfan on Mar 13, 2008 4:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

no
I initially thought he was, and when playing in the field or batting he does "look" smaller.  However, I later saw the two standing next to each other in BP and Hoff is definitely taller and broader.  He just doesn't look like it.
play skip at second base.

by SleepyCA on Mar 13, 2008 4:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

not really
Ryan is 8 inches taller than david eckstein, 6 inches taller than miles and 4 inches taller than Skip.  
play skip at second base.

by SleepyCA on Mar 13, 2008 3:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Juan G
Albert and Yadi both went to bat for this guy and got him a deal.  The two position player leaders on the team (along w/ Carp and Wagonmaker) have endorsed him.  Anyone think that there are perhaps some team culture issues that may be tipping the scales in Juan's favor for the roster spot?  I'm thinking that a GM/coach isn't really keen on spurning team leaders if it's avoidable.  

Or maybe it's a non-issue, but I've been wondering about it.

by awpierce on Mar 13, 2008 2:04 PM EDT   0 recs

Lohse is a Cardinal to be
Lohse has always won games with teams that score runs.  Early Twins in a weak division/ Phillie's who can really put them up.  If the Cards hit, he will win 8 games before the break.  He will be in shape as he has been at Boras's baseball institute in SoCall for the last two weeks, live hitting and the works.  St Louis got lucky that Kyle ended up to be the "Get Boras" wipping boy for league owners.  
Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Mar 13, 2008 2:12 PM EDT   0 recs

To repeat HC's question from below
Do you have some info that this deal is actually happening?

by BTown Birds fan on Mar 13, 2008 2:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs