Your Top 5

by RedbirdRay on Mar 13, 2008 8:48 AM EDT

I would like you to humor me, if you will. Please give me your top 5. No, I'm not talking about the top people on your myspace page nor whatever cellphone company has those "5" commercials...

Give me the top 5 position players and the top 5 pitchers of all time. List them off the top of your head. Please just fire them away. Don't read the thread, don't look up some list somewhere...just verbally vomit them right out there (or I guess maybe it would be handidly hurl?) Feel free to discuss them in this thread.

I will tabulate the responses and reveal my reasons tomorrow. I saw this exercise somewhere else, but don't want to spoil it yet by revealing it to early...I think it could cause some cheating.

I wanted to see what the responses were here among the high-brow Cardinal fans. Tune in tomorrow...

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ok i'll play

Gehrig
Mantle
Schmidt
Bench
Mays

Gibson
Carlton
Koufax
Clemens
Ryan

Just off the top of my head. I have seen all but Gehrig play. Maybe that's why I chose them. Since they were all in my life time... just about.

by nybirdfan on Mar 13, 2008 9:04 AM EDT 0 recs

Gotta go old school

Position:

Rogers Hornsby
Ty Cobb
Joe Dimaggio
Ted Simmons
Stan Musial

Pitchers:
Cy Young
Mordecai Brown
Christy Mathewson
Sandy Koufax
Bob Gibson

by DJ4508 on Mar 13, 2008 9:11 AM EDT 0 recs

5 best

Mays
A-Rod
Rickey Henderson
Ted Williams
Musial

Gibson
Koufax
Pedro Martinez
Carlton
Cy Young

Yeah, I said Rickey Henderson...

by Jumsy on Mar 13, 2008 9:15 AM EDT 0 recs

5

position players:
Babe Ruth
Willie Mays
Josh Gibson
Stan Musial
Albert Pujols :)

Pitchers:
Walter Johnson
Grover Cleveland Alexander
Randy Johnson
Satchel Paige
Bob Gibson

by matt reeder on Mar 13, 2008 9:32 AM EDT 0 recs

Fun

Pointless, but fun.

Position:
Ruth
Mays
Williams
Musial
Foxx

Pitchers:
Johnson, Walter
Koufax
Gibson
Martinez, Pedro
Johnson, Randy

by arch support on Mar 13, 2008 9:34 AM EDT 0 recs

Hm.

Now that I look at other people's lists, I would probably put Josh Gibson in just above Musial and knock Jimmie Foxx off my list.

But, as the rules were "off the top of your head" I'll have to stick with what I had...which is unfortunate, because I don't think Josh Gibson will get the recognition he deserves. Never has, really.

by arch support on Mar 13, 2008 9:38 AM EDT up 0 recs

pointless?

Don't really see how you can call it pointless until you read what I have to say tomorrow.

But, it actually is kinda pointless. lol.

by RedbirdRay on Mar 13, 2008 9:41 AM EDT up 0 recs

Sorry

Didn't mean any offense. Pointless was probably the wrong word. "Diversion" would have been a better choice.

by arch support on Mar 13, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

Interested to see what this is all about

Positions:
Mickey Mantle
Honus Wagner
Ty Cobb
Stan Musial
Babe Ruth

Pitchers:
Walter Johnson
Bob Gibson
Cy Young
Sandy Koufax
Nolan Ryan

by JBagKY on Mar 13, 2008 9:39 AM EDT 0 recs

Excellent

Position Players:

Babe Ruth
Barry Bonds
Ted Williams
Hank Aaron
Willie Mays

Pitchers:

Nolan Ryan
Sandy Koufax
Bob Gibson
Roger Clemens
Pedro Martinez

The hot stove is burning...

by cardzfan24 on Mar 13, 2008 9:50 AM EDT 0 recs

Interested to see the totals...

Bonds
Ruth
Williams
Hornsby
Mays

Walter Johnson
Alexander
Clemens
Pedro
Maddux

by awpierce on Mar 13, 2008 10:10 AM EDT 0 recs

i'll go +1 on this one

with the exception of swapping out koufax for maddux.

does this mean boras is human?

by nycbirdo on Mar 13, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re:

I wrote them down before I looked at anyone else's. I have to say I'm ashamed I didn't get Willie Mays on my list originally, but since you said the idea is to do this blindly, I did the best I could.

Position Players

Babe Ruth
Ted Williams
Rickey Henderson
Honus Wagner
Alex Rodriguez

Pitchers

Walter Johnson
Cy Young
Bob Gibson
Greg Maddux
Steve Carlton

Bonds and Clemens make these lists if not for the steroid allegations, over A-Rod and Maddux. And I would have bumped A-Rod for Mays as well.

by mtalken on Mar 13, 2008 10:11 AM EDT 0 recs

I am only going to

rate the one's I have seen. Some before my time could have been better.

Hitters:
Ted Williams
Stan Musial
Albert Pujols
Willie Mays
Frank Robinson

Pitchers:
Sandy Koufax
Bob Gibson
Robin Roberts
Juan Marchial
Steve Carlton

It is real hard to leave out Joe Dimaggio and Mickey Mantle as hitters and Warren Spaghn, Don Newcombe and Whitey Ford as pitchers so here is a very honorable mention for those folks.

by ridgesee on Mar 13, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up 0 recs

Also for those that might not know

Mickey Mantle hit a ball out of old Griffith Stadium in Washington, DC that was measured at 565 feet. It was witnessed as landing and putting a dent on the hood of an automobile in the parking lot. The spot was marked and later measured.

This was talked about for years but I have not heard it mentioned at all in recent years with all the talk about McGwire, Pujols, and Bonds bombs. It is a pity, it should be remembered.

by ridgesee on Mar 13, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up 0 recs

That's a mammoth shot

would have been one hell of a thing to see. How much money would a person pay to see a series of baseball between the all time greats in their prime?

It would be awesome.

The hot stove is burning...

by cardzfan24 on Mar 13, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up 0 recs

It was in a Sunday day game

against the old Senators and all the next week the sports pages were filled with it. All kinds of diagrams showing flight of ball etc. Mantle hit several others estimated to be over 500 ft.

by ridgesee on Mar 13, 2008 10:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

No Particular Order

Position Players

Stan Musial
Ted Williams
Barry Bonds
Albert Pujols
Mickey Mantle

Pitchers

Nolan Ryan
Roger Clemens
Bob Gibson
Randy Johnson
Sandy Koufax

by BASC on Mar 13, 2008 10:26 AM EDT 0 recs

Ozzie

A-Rod
Pujols
Mayes
Schmit
O. Smith (That's right... you didn't say hitters. If you put everything together, I'd put him at the top of the list.)

R. Johnson
Gibson
Koufax
Clemens
Ryan

by Birdos in Mexico on Mar 13, 2008 10:44 AM EDT 0 recs

Ozzie Smith is the BEST

defensive player (at any position) I've EVER seen, or ever HOPE to see!

The only guy who comes close is Bench, who did things behind the plate no one else could ever do...

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Mar 13, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up 0 recs

5

Ruth
Gehrig
Williams
Aaron
A-Rod

Koufax
Gibson
Johnson, Walter
Young
Matthewson

by kindred on Mar 13, 2008 10:49 AM EDT 0 recs

One goalie's opinion...

Position players:
Ruth
Cobb
Musial
T. Williams
J. DiMaggio

Pitchers:
W. Johnson
Gibson
Seaver
Carlton (narrowly over Spahn as a lefty)
Gossage (a nod to the bullpen!)

Dizzy Dean and Sandy Koufax would have made my list with longer careers; but at their (brief) best, there were few better!

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Mar 13, 2008 10:51 AM EDT 0 recs

Ol goalie

You made a good selection in Tom Seaver. He slipped my mind. Also Koufax ( though his career was not that long) was the most dominating pitcher I ever saw, with the exception of that one phenomenal year Gibson had.

by ridgesee on Mar 13, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up 0 recs

My turn

Pitchers

Nolan Ryan
Bob Gibson
Steve Carlton
Sandy Koufax
Satchel Paige

Postion Players

Babe Ruth
Stan Musial
Pete Rose
Joe Dimaggio
Lou Brock

It is easy to be brave from a safe distance. -Aesop

by OKCardsfan on Mar 13, 2008 11:02 AM EDT 0 recs

Top 5's

Top 5 but in no particular order:

Ruth
Williams
Gehrig
Bonds
Aaron

(hon. mention: Mays, Mantle, Musial, Cobb, Wagner)

Seaver
Maddux
Clemens
W.Johnson
Martinez

(hon. mention: R.Johnson, Spahn, Grove, Koufax, Gibson)

Picking just 5 is hard!

"Back in the day when I played, a pitcher had 3 pitches: a fastball, a curveball, a slider, a changeup and a good sinker pitch." - Mike Shannon

by nomar34 on Mar 13, 2008 11:03 AM EDT 0 recs

Ryan...

I'm amazed Nolan Ryan has made so many lists. I know wins and losses aren't everything, but I don't know if I'd put him in the top 5 pitchers ever. What amazes me even more is how many lists leave off Walter Johnson, who is probably the greatest pitcher in baseball and certainly top 5...

by matt reeder on Mar 13, 2008 11:18 AM EDT 0 recs

Wins and losses

are NOTHING. He struck out 17,364 more batters than the number 2 guy and pitched 7 no hitters. I am pretty sure he holds the single season record for Ks as well. The dude was DOMINANT.

Plus I wanted to be him as I pitched in Little League. I wanted to strike out every batter and pitch a no hitter every time out. Dude freaking rocks.

The hot stove is burning...

by cardzfan24 on Mar 13, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up 0 recs

The no-hitters can be explained though

The man hated giving up hits and would gladly walk the bases loaded before giving up a single.

I'm certainly not advocating against him being HoF quality, because that's obvious, but here's some knocks against him being top 5:

-The W/L record means something, and his wasn't great.

-He never won a Cy Young Award

-He walked 200 batters in a season twice in his career and averaged 120 walks given out in a year. (I know Maddux is a control pitcher, his his career high in walks is 82 and his average was 46).

The man's great, but this is why I wouldn't put him top 5 or even top 10. PRobably top 20 still though.

by mtalken on Mar 14, 2008 10:28 AM EDT up 0 recs

Zambrano is the same way as far as walks.

He would much rather give up a walk than a hit. He is not an extreme strike out pitcher like Ryan was, but he always has above average strike out totals. I know this is a blasphemus thing to admit here, but I watch a lot of Cubs and White Sox games on cable because I can-they are part of the basic cable package, and every year when folks predict Zambrano's demise due to an elevated walk rate I just shake my head. Because he's going to take the ball every 5th day and he's going to walk a lot of folks. That's just the way he is. And he's going to end up with a good line (except the walks) every year.

No, I'm not a Cubs fan. But I do love watching Zambrano's way of pitching-it's unique, baffling, weird, and totally awesome all at the same time. And yes, I would have loved it if he would have become a free agent and signed here......

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Mar 14, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up 0 recs

It depends on how you look at it

A few responses:

-the win/loss thing is certainly the fault of a low scoring offense and not bad pitching. Even so, Ryan is 14th all time in wins, so that's good. Those bad w/l also cost him some Cys, methinks. As far as the walks thing, when he walked 200+ he had 299 IP and 332 IP. That makes it better. His career WHIP of 1.24 is pretty decent.

Some perspective on Ryan here.

Wins- 14th all time
K/9- 4th all time
Total IP- 5th all time
Hits allowed/9IP- 1st all time
K's- 1st all time (almost 1000 more than #2)
Games started- 2nd all time

222 complete games, 61 shut outs (7th all time), 7 no hitters

As Charles Barkley would say, he's in my five.

The hot stove is burning...

by cardzfan24 on Mar 14, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up 0 recs

Some more fun stuff for Ryan

Good points on the innings pitched, but to point a few things out.

He leads in K's career by over 1,000, but he also has issued 962 more walks than #2 Steve Carlton.

He is 14th best in career wins, but 3rd best(?) on career losses.

He also ranks #1 in the category of "Best ass-kicking of Robin Ventura"

He certainly is an interesting pitcher to discuss. On his wikipedia article (which of course always has to be taken with a grain of salt, but I would imagine this is accurate), there was a study of how much better dominant pitchers are compared to their team, which is a good way to judge good pitchers on bad teams. Ryan played on typically bad teams, and his W-L was only SLIGHTLY better (2%) than the W-L of his teams.

So Ryan played on a lot of .500 type teams, and was slightly better than .500 personally.

by mtalken on Mar 14, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

Here are mine

Babe Ruth
(and Babe Ruth's kid brother; that's how much I think of Ruth)
Willie Mays
Ted Williams
Hank Aaron
Ty Cobb

Can't believe I didn't include an infielder among them.

Christy Matthewson
Sandy Koufax
Lefty Grove
Pedro Martinez
Bob Feller

Last slot could go to Walter Johnson. Or probably lots of guys I'm not thinking of. All off the top of my head, per the conditions stated.

Look forward to seeing what you do with all this.

by Youneverknow on Mar 13, 2008 12:21 PM EDT 0 recs

Sure!

Bats:
Mays
Ruth
Bonds
Mantle
Gehrig

Arms:
Johnson
Grove
Gibson
Koufax
Pedro

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Mar 13, 2008 12:25 PM EDT 0 recs

Top 5

Barry Bonds
Ted Williams
Babe Ruth
Ty Cobb
Honus Wagner

Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
Sandy Koufax
Roger Clemens
Greg Maddux

and about three dozen guys tied for sixth in each category :-)

by bkwelker on Mar 13, 2008 12:39 PM EDT 0 recs

Top five

1.Bonds
2.Mays
3.Ruth
4.The Man
5.Lou G.

1.Gibson
2.Clemens
3.Walter Johnson
4.Sandy K.
5.Randy Johnson

Neither in any order.

by Harknights on Mar 13, 2008 1:01 PM EDT 0 recs

I forgot Williams

How did I do that?

I may place him above Lou. I don't know. Really splitting hairs.

by Harknights on Mar 13, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

making my own rules

I am just going to put people that I have actually been alive to see..and I am relatively young to here it goes,

Position Players:
Albert Pujols
Alex Rodriguez
Ken Griffey Jr.
Cal Ripken Jr.
Barry Bonds

Pitchers:
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Greg Maddux
Mariano Rivera

I wasn't around for the other guys so my judgements would be soley based on the HOF and that isnt fun for me.

Cards fan banished to NH

by t7rick on Mar 13, 2008 1:06 PM EDT 0 recs

Tops 5s

Hornsby
Mantle
Clemente
Mays
Musial

W. Johnson
Koufax
Gibson
Clemens
P. Martinez

Now the story of a wealthy family who lost everything, and the one son who had no choice but to keep them all together...it's Arrested Development.

by Bowen on Mar 13, 2008 1:27 PM EDT 0 recs

All-Time

Bats:
Musial
Hornsby
Williams
Pujols
Ruth

Pitchers:
Gibson
Ryan
Maddux
Koufax
Santana

by roebirds on Mar 13, 2008 1:28 PM EDT 0 recs

my top five

hitters

Babe Ruth
Ty Cobb
Lou Gehrig
Stan Musial
Honus Wagner

pitchers

Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
Cy Young
Bob Gibson
Greg Maddux

by barry whiteteeth on Mar 13, 2008 2:10 PM EDT 0 recs

ok, without looking at anything else

willie mays
stan musial
ty cobb
henry aaron
babe ruth

cy young
walter johnson
bob gibson
nolan ryan
christy mathewson

by dpmay on Mar 13, 2008 3:56 PM EDT 0 recs

My picks

Willie Mays
Hank Aaron
Mickey Mantle
Stan Musial
Albert Pujols (EAT THAT, TEDDY BALLGAME!)

Bob Gibson
Nolan Ryan
Walter Johnson
Sandy Koufax
Satchel Paige

Rasmus or bust.

by Zoop on Mar 13, 2008 4:02 PM EDT 0 recs

D'oh

I'd remove Paige and throw in Maddux. Love(d?) watching that guy pitch.

Rasmus or bust.

by Zoop on Mar 13, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

Mmkay, here goes.

Honus Wagner
Babe Ruth
Willie Mays
Stan Musial
Roberto Clemente

Walter Johnson
Nolan Ryan
Sandy Koufax
Bob Gibson
Greg Maddux

Let's one-up Ned Yost - bat the pitcher seventh!

by Phizzle on Mar 13, 2008 4:10 PM EDT 0 recs

mine.

Hitters
Babe
Ted Williams
Stan Musial
Hank Aaron
Willie Mays

Pitchers
Gibson
Walter Johnson
Koufax
Mathewson
Pedro

"There's a good possibility we may not be as bad as people think we're going to be."-- La Russa

by birdsonthebat on Mar 13, 2008 4:15 PM EDT 0 recs

ok

hank aaron
ted williams
babe ruth
ty cobb
lou gehrig

Gibson
Walter Johnson
Koufax
Feller
Thompson/Wellemeyer

by Hinkster on Mar 13, 2008 4:41 PM EDT 0 recs

LOL

Thompson/Welemeyer that is the greatest. I just hope this doesn't throw a monkey wrench into Redbirdray's big plans for this poll tomorrow. His little laptop might blow into smoke

by ridgesee on Mar 13, 2008 7:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'm in

Postition-
Albert Pujols (gotta go with El Hombre!)
Babe Ruth
Ted Williams
Alex Rodriguez (it really pains me to say this)
Lou Gehrig

Pitchers-
Bob Gibson
Nolan Ryan
Sandy Koufax
Randy Johnson
Satchel Paige

Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona. ~George F. Will, Men at Work: The Craft of Baseball, 1990

by RosevilleRedbird on Mar 13, 2008 5:18 PM EDT 0 recs

From another baseball fan

not currently tagged Roseville Redbird- (a co-worker of mine, so it counts, right?)

Position Player
Mays
Aaron
Ruth
Williams
Josh Gibson

Pitchers
Gibson
Martinez
Mariano Rivera
Cy Young
Satchel Page

Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona. ~George F. Will, Men at Work: The Craft of Baseball, 1990

by RosevilleRedbird on Mar 13, 2008 5:40 PM EDT 0 recs

Woo.....

Position Players

Ruth
Aaron
Mays
Cobb
A Rodriguez

Pitchers

Ruth
Maddux
Smoltz
P. Martinez
Ryan

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Mar 13, 2008 6:17 PM EDT 0 recs

Yeah, jillinmo

My grandma Ruth was a hell of a pitcher. She used to throw me wicked curves when I was a kid and I never hit one. But how did you know about my grandma Ruth.

by ridgesee on Mar 13, 2008 7:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

Oh, no.....I DO mean the great Babe Ruth.......

He was a studly pitcher before he became a home run masher--I guess I'm saying if he would have stayed on the mound he would have been on that list. So I put him on both of them.....

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Mar 13, 2008 8:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

I was just kidding you Jillsinmo

you might be right. He was an effective pitcher before turning masher.

by ridgesee on Mar 13, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Well,

He went 94-46 with 2.28 ERA. That's over 10 years, only 3 of which look like he was a full time starter. No other player had the talent he had......hands down, the best player who ever lived.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Mar 14, 2008 1:12 AM EDT up 0 recs

Verbal Vomit

Willie Mays
Hank Aaron
Babe Ruth
Ted Williams
Barry Bonds

Walter Johnson
Christy Matthewson
Sandy Koufax
Steve Carlton
Nolan Ryan

by capn crunch on Mar 13, 2008 11:52 PM EDT 0 recs

5 Best (if steroids were Advil)

Hank Aaron
Willie Mays
Albert Pujols
Ted Williams
Jackie Robinson
Alt: A. Rodriguez

Walter Johnson
Greg Maddux
Christy Matthewson
Sandy Koufax
Cy Young
Alt: Randy Johnson

Flex: Babe Ruth, put him on either list, really. Can't argue

If steriods were Advil: Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds are locks, 'specially Clemens

Nice exercise. 10 woulda been easier...

"I don't believe what I just saw!" ~ Jack Buck

by itsalemmon1019 on Mar 14, 2008 12:18 AM EDT 0 recs

oops

Didn't mean to leave the parenthetical in the subject line.

Stupid beer.

"I don't believe what I just saw!" ~ Jack Buck

by itsalemmon1019 on Mar 14, 2008 12:19 AM EDT up 0 recs

Top 10 maybe.....5 aint fair!

Gotta leave AP off since this all time and hes a pup (the stud o' the litter tho) and leave off the current advil users. Afterall, Satchel Paiges only juice was a stick of Dentyne. He'd lay it on home plate and warm up over the gum.

Pitchers:

Walter Johnson

Bob Gibson

Bob Feller (The other Bullet Bob)

Sandy Koufax

Satchel Paige (cant leave him off)

Alternate(s): Greg Maddux (or Warren
Spahn (sp) or Steve Carlton or so many
that did more than just throw hard
to get outs....and had a glove!)

Postion Players: (did it all, in the field and at the plate)

Babe Ruth

Lou Gehrig

Stan Musial

Hank Aaron

Teddy Williams

Alternate(s): Joe Dimaggio or the
Mick with two legs that worked!
Imagine! (Josh Gibson oughta be
in there. Then theres the Cobb and
Ott and Foxx and nobody mentions
Greenberg with 4 years in WWII
in the middle of his carreer..
...geez.)

Now I coud name favorites.

"We collect players that can hit and play 1st Base, but sorta play in the outfield most of the time." "Also, relievers that start!"

by cardschinmusic on Mar 14, 2008 6:55 AM EDT 0 recs

Top 5's

Pos. Players:

Barry Bonds
Willie Mays
Alex Rodriguez
Mickey Mantle
Babe Ruth

Pitchers:

Sandy Koufax
Walter Johnson
Warren Spahn
Bob Gibson
Nolan Ryan

I don't understand the fascination with Clemens. Why would you put him on this list? His 6 Cy's or his 354 wins? I don't base anything on Cy Young Awards, since those are voted on by baseball writers and I've yet to find 4 in one room that know more than d*** about baseball. Which explains why Molina hasn't won a GG yet. How a pitcher like Ryan goes an entire career without a Cy Young is incredible. If Nolan had played on as many winning teams as Clemens he would probably have around 380-400 wins. Look at his career with the Angels -- 19-16, 21-16, 22-16 -- if those teams could score any runs he might have won 30 games in any one of those years!

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Mar 14, 2008 9:26 AM EDT 0 recs