Troy Glaus is #8, will we retire #25?

by Molina4MVP on Feb 9, 2008 9:33 PM EST Comment 40 comments

I don't know if this has been discussed (if it has, just ignore this) but Troy Glaus will wear the #8 jersey for the Cardinals, not 25 like he used to wear.

I hope this means that we will eventually retire #25 for Big Mac despite all the Performance Enhancing Drug allegations.

Maybe I am in the minority, but I feel that retiring 25 is the right thing to do because Big Mac had such a huge impact on the Cardinals. I'm not saying he is blameless or innocent of what he is accused of, I just feel that, because he was so important to the Cardinals, we should honor him by retiring his number. This seems like a big step towards that.

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If he would have

played more than four years for the Cards, I'd agree, but I think being in "unofficial retired" status is fine.

(Also, nobody should have their number retired before Willie does.)

Fame was like a drug, but what was even more like a drug were the drugs

by Alxfritz on Feb 9, 2008 9:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

51

Agree. Have a hard time getting behind a McGwire retirement for 25 before Willie and #51. Three gold gloves and an MVP. 12 1/2 season wearing the birds on the bats. McGwire was all about that one magically summer when he and Sosa chased each other for Maris' record. One summer does not make a career for a Cardinal.

by jjray on Feb 10, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

McGwire made the organization relevant again

for a franchise that had toiled for much of the 1990's McGwire made them relevant again.

McGwire will only get his number retired if he is inducted into the HOF (just like all other Cardinals players).

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Feb 10, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They were a win away from the series in '96

So trading for McGwire in '97 made them relevant again???

by Valatan on Feb 10, 2008 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Baltimore was a Jefferey Mayer HR

and Todd Zeile error away from the World Series in 1996 and they haven't been relevant since.

What's your point?

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Feb 10, 2008 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The farm system was stocked with a lot of talent

They suffered a lot of injury-related disasters throughout the rest of the 90s, but in terms of talent, they were reasonably capable of competing, McGwire or no, except for all of the endless injuries.

And they returned to competitiveness not when McGwire came, but when all of those injured pitchers were replaced with the return of Andy Benes, and the acquisition of Darryl Kile, Pat Hentgen and Garrett Stephenson.

by Valatan on Feb 11, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And the Orioles were on the opposite end of that

they were loaded with a bunch of ancient guys, prepared to go downhill.

by Valatan on Feb 11, 2008 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cheaters should not be honored....

Yeah, yeah, I know...he's never been proven of anything, but c'mon, it's obvious to anyone that ever saw his performance in Congress that he used. However, I cannot deny the absolute profound impact he had on Cardinal Nation (myself included). His number will never be distributed as long as the current regime and equipment manager are in place. Remember, these folks are all still very much fond of Big Mac.

"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 9, 2008 10:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

considering Glaus' PED history

he'd actually be a splendid candidate to wear the number. There's considerably more evidence that Glaus cheated than Big Mac, after all...

I kind of like that idea, actually. Let #25 become the scarlet number, the inverse of #42. Make everyone who got caught cheating before it was banned wear #25. Let their records stand, and don't mention PEDs on the plaques, but put bonds in a #25 jersey in the Hall. Same with Clemens and Giambi and Palmeiro.

by SleepyCA on Feb 9, 2008 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

holy cow

I did not realize this when I posted, but Bonds, Palmeiro and Giambi's numbers actually already WERE #25. That is just too perfect.

If only Clemens was 25 instead of 22... Of course, that could be proof that he is innocent.

by SleepyCA on Feb 9, 2008 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa

Twilight Zone shit there.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 9, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Freaky.

Rasmus or bust.

by Zoop on Feb 10, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

holy cow indeed

Redbirds Fun
2006 WS for JB and DK57 RIP: Josh Hancock

by cardsfan84 on Feb 11, 2008 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Giambi

I don't think we have to worry about him going to the hall.

by fltfire on Feb 10, 2008 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm with ya...

... retire that number, even if you have to retire it with an asterisk.

by kindred on Feb 10, 2008 3:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Nope. You don't get your number

retired for having two great seasons for a team, neither of those leading to the post season while doing grotesque things to your body with performance enhancing drugs. I actually think that Mac is a pretty decent guy who didn't think he was doing something wrong and he's paying a terrible price for being the only one of those guys who didn't actually lie to Congress. But for the Cardinals his contributions were mostly as a side show that was later found to be tainted. He really didn't help the Cardinals win much either. I believe that the Cardinals had a losing record in the his big year in games when he homered and also in games when he hit multiple homers. In a few years we'll probably have a better handle on how to feel about the PEDs era. I, for one, would love to see Mark try to find some redemption by reentering public life, coming clean about the PEDs and the context in which he decided to take them, and finally relating the huge price he's paid for it, both psychologically and probably physically. Good guys go wrong some times and he could do a lot of good by telling how it happens.

by easy on Feb 10, 2008 10:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

very well said

I especially agree... he IS a nice guy.
Beyond that, unlike a lot of fans, I am either luke-warm or conflicted.

As for retiring Mac's number? frazz-bazz.
An equal argument could be made for Jack Clark and Orlando Cepeda: both of whom helped us to two NL titles each, as the main-cog slugger on the team.

But each only wore the uniform three years. McGwire was four+ years, but only two were full time starter years, and no team titles during either.

++ I strongly agree that if anybody is "next" it has to be McGee.

by the Tewk on Feb 11, 2008 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Only one number not in the Hall

Ken Boyer's #14 is the only retired number representing a player who is not in Cooperstown. It's a pretty elite crowd with Ozzie, Red, Enos, Stan, Boyer, Dizzy, Sutter/Robinson, Gibby, Auggie, Hornsby (no number) and Jack Buck.

Not even other Cardinal Hall of Famers made it. Medwick, Mize, Bottomley, Tip from the 1880s (we've seen what his teams have done to 2004). They all played for the Cardinals for the same or longer than McGwire and they're not recognized.

While McGwire's impact on the game post-strike is undeniable, I don't think his two and a half great years here were long enough. Even with the PED controversy is looming, I'll always respect McGwire for walking away from those last years of guaranteed millions that allowed us to sign Rolen and Edmonds. But it's not enough to retire the number.

And there are a few numbers I'd rather see on that wall first, such as #15 (six great and a WS) and #51 (how can you not love Willie?).

by birdsonthebat on Feb 10, 2008 11:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

If I recall correctly...

Glaus made the choice to switch numbers, out of respect for McGwire... Giambi switched to #25 when he joined the Yanks, as a "tip of the cap" to Big Mac, and hockey's Chris Pronger (!) switched to #25 when he was traded to Anaheim. (Pronger had gotten to know McGwire during Chris' tenure with the St. Louis Blues.)

It's my opinion that no one will wear #25 for the Cards as long as Tony's the manager; and I suspect it will remain "unofficially" retired as long as Bill DeWitt and Co. own the club, just like McGee's #51.

Of the current retired numbers, Musial and Gibson spent their entire careers as Cardinals; Hornsby, Ozzie, Red, Slaughter, Boyer, Dizzy, and Brock all spent the majority of their careers with the Cardinals. Bruce Sutter's a special case; his #42 was already retired baseball-wide for Jackie Robinson... the Cardinals simply added Sutter's name to the existing signs along the left-field fence and behind the center-field stands.

No matter what McGwire does in the future, his tenure in St. Louis "jacked" attendance here and elsewhere; part of the reason PEDs were ignored was that the Big Mac/Sammy Sosa home-run chase put fannies in the seats, and helped undo the financial damage caused by the '94 strike... just as Babe Ruth helped re-kindle interest in baseball following the Black Sox scandal with his homers.

The arguments against retiring McGwire's number in the posts previous to mine also make excellent points. Mac may simply prefer his privacy to receiving any further baseball-related awards, including the Hall of Fame.

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Feb 10, 2008 11:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Retire it

McGwire supporter and apologist here - I vote retire it.

by Lawless on Feb 10, 2008 1:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

15

What does it say to Jimmy that his number is already in use -- McRae changed over, if I recall correctly.

by sjoshi on Feb 10, 2008 1:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

edmonds

I'd definately prefer to see #15 posted up right in the middle of the center field wall.

"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 10, 2008 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

seriously!

i too am surprised that they're already using jimmy ed's 15 and edgar's 3 and matty mo's 35... in my mind these 3 were pretty big part of cardinals success yet there has been basically no hesitation to re-use their numbers. Were they just not on the equipment manager's good side?

by PolancoMcEwing on Feb 11, 2008 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Numbers needing retireing

#51
#47
#15
and a few years down the road #5

Not a fan of Troy Glaus

by gibbyfan on Feb 10, 2008 6:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Big

Ludwick fan,eh?

Fame was like a drug, but what was even more like a drug were the drugs

by Alxfritz on Feb 10, 2008 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

I feel really stupid, but I ment to put number 57. I pretty much smashed my head into the computer when I relized that.

Not a fan of Troy Glaus

by gibbyfan on Feb 10, 2008 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I definatly agree about 51

but i'm torn about whether 15 deserves it (although it wouldn't upset me in the least to see it done). I just don't understand why 57 should be retired.

by Big Red on Feb 10, 2008 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not trying to fight

I just think that DK did so much more for this team then just win ball games as a pitcher. He really created a since of unity in this team. He's a big reason why Edmonds became the unoffical team captian, which is a big reason why we won the 06 WS. Call me crazy or whatever, but I think the best picture from the hole 06 season was the one with Edmonds holding the trophy up and you can see his DK tat.

Not a fan of Troy Glaus

by gibbyfan on Feb 11, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Eric Ludwick?

Just kidding.

by liam on Feb 11, 2008 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

good thing that's a typo

because my list includes
51 - McGee
57 - DK
15 - Edmonds
25 - McGwire
5 - Pujols
10 - Tony
27 - Rolen

Redbirds Fun
2006 WS for JB and DK57 RIP: Josh Hancock

by cardsfan84 on Feb 11, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And by 2100...

We'll trot out a team all with numbers in the 80s and 90s. At least our grandkids will be able to see the 45th James Bond movie.

by rrvwmr on Feb 13, 2008 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

47

valid point, it would be in the spirit of the supersubs.. Joe McEwing, John Mabry, the list goes on

by PolancoMcEwing on Feb 11, 2008 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

57

kile was a great pitcher when he was with the cards, not so good when he was with the rockies (we basically took him from the dumpsters and turned him into an ace, what i like to call the "duncan effect")

his number's in the bullpen, same with JH, i like that respect the team gave 'em.

Retire #51?

BUD SMITHS number?

hahahahaa

Cardwash - Cardinal, Washington fan (Washington???? Yeah, I know)

by cardwash on Feb 11, 2008 6:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Debate all you want

who should have their number retired, I bet the next one will be around 2011 or 2012.

It'll be DeWitts golden boy #10.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Feb 11, 2008 10:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't be terribly opposed

to that happening, but in order for me to be actually for it we'll need another WS victory. Then again I'm not a TLR fan; it seems to me that he is a "good manager" because everyone else is so bad at it. He's just "less bad" than most, and he's had the good luck to be in a position to have some great players on his teams.

by SleepyCA on Feb 11, 2008 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

51 then......

47 Who couldnt love John Mabry??

by Willie51 on Feb 11, 2008 1:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

RE: Gibby Fan

We SHOULD retire #47 for Joaquin Andujar, you are dead on with that one...

by Molina4MVP on Feb 11, 2008 9:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I forgot to metion this

but the next player that should have his number retired in #21, Curt Flood.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Feb 12, 2008 2:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

retired numbers

The next number to be retired should be the #7 of Joe Medwick. He played longer and posted better numbers than any of those that have been mentioned. I can't believe his number was not among the first retired.

by MikeCard6 on Feb 12, 2008 4:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

retired numbers cont...

Mybe there should be a wall of fame for those who were great cardinals but didn't make it to the HOF. Pollett, M & W Cooper, Flood, Frisch, Marion, Collins, Javier, Simmons, Martin, etc, etc.

I also believe that McGwire should not be retired... I do however believe that #24 should be retired. Won't happen as long as Tony is there. Whitey, was our greatest manager has served the Cardinals very well since retiring--still my favorite manager.

by MikeCard6 on Feb 12, 2008 5:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs