NL Central Comparisons: Milwaukee Brewers
I think they should make a Wheaties box for bloggers. Something bright so that it's easy to see in the basement and features the best bloggers on the internet. I would never find myself on that cereal box but wouldn't be terribly heartbroken since Wheaties taste like a cross between Imo's thin crust and cardboard. That is to say they are somwhere between disgusting and tasteless. Yet of all the weeks I would fail to claim my spot on the Wheaties box, I think this week would be the case in point.
Have you ever stood up really fast and had a vertigo feeling like the room didn't quite stand up with you? Have you ever gone for a run and come back only to find that your legs don't really want to support you any more? Have you ever been to one of the day games in St. Louis where the sun beats down on you and bastes you in your own sweat for the afternoon? Have you ever put your head in a clamp and started squeezing it tighter until you just couldn't take it any more?
If you answered yes to all of they above, you obviously had the same strain of flu that I did for the past 4 days with dizziness, body aches, high fevers and terrible sinus headaches among other things. (I've never actually put my head in a clamp, but there's still time.) So I'm doing my best to deliver something that sounds coherent and thoughtful rather than delirious and crazy this Friday.*
I've been comparing the teams in our division to the Cardinals and I think the Astros and the Pirates are the only teams that you can make a convincing argument will be worse teams. The Brewers, Reds and Cubs seem positioned to battle it out for the top this year in a division that appears to be improving. With the release of PECOTA this past week, I'm not going to do estimates of players value anymore or detailed position by position comparisons. For the Brewers, I'd rather focus on the tremendous impact that the Mike Cameron signing is going to have on this team.
A huge part of their success last season was the tandem of Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun. Offensively, they were a powerhouse that was unrivaled in the NL Central. Defensively, they were nothing short of a disaster. Fielder was certainly tolerable at first given his offense but Braun simply wasn't. Braun's defense was so bad that it nearly cost him the ROY award. Given his offensive prowess and gaudy counting stats, that should tell you how obvious and blatant of an issue it really was. During the offseason the Brewers said all the right things about Braun being able to improve his defense given his youth and work ethic. They also quietly sought an external solution that would result in a reshuffling of positions.
Braun accumulated nearly 60 VORP last season despite having fewer that 500 plate appearances. Despite only playing in 113 games, Braun cost his team upwards 0f 30 runs defensively. I imagine it was quite thrilling for Brewer's fans to project Braun across an entire season and then unsettling to think about how much he could cost the team defensively with a full season. While talented, there should have serious questions as to whether Braun could erase enough of his defensive problems to justify remaining at third base.
In 2005 and 2006, Bill Hall took the step from a talented young player with loads of tools to a productive major leaguer -- or so it seemed. Breaking into the majors at age 23, Hall had been moved quickly through the farm system. He played a plurality of his games at 2nd base in 2004, his first fullseason. Moved to 3rd for the majority of the 2005 season and then played SS in about 85% of the games for 2006. Needless to say he never really got a chance to settle in. Again, he was moved for the 2007 season playing CF exclusively. He also gave back the offensive gains he had made in '05 and '06 turning in a .254/.315/.425 line last year after a 05-06 cumulative line of .280/.343/.525. Not the direction that Hall or the team would have hoped his offense would take. This season he'll return to the infield at 3rd base to make room for Mike Cameron.
Cameron was a down ballot MVP candidate in Seattle as a player who did a variety of things very well but nothing outstanding. That is except for his centerfield defense. In the spacious Safeco park, Cameron and Randy Winn combined to turn a huge number of potential doubles into outs. While he's not the same caliber of defender that he was then, he's still a solidly average CF who won't kill you with the bat. And that's all the Brewers need him to be. Any offense that he brings to the team is icing on the cake because his defensive contributions and the cascade of improvements that will result from his addition are significant.
Let's set aside the offense. Braun cost the team around 30 runs last season at third base. Bill Hall was an average centerfielder last year and then lets assume that the left field corps (mainly Jenkins) were about average defensively as well. We're at -30 runs for those three positions. Let's substitute Cameron in for Hall at centerfield. That isn't going to make up any significant ground so lets put Bill Hall at third now. UZR was back and forth on Hall's work at third but there isn't a large enough sample size to draw definitive conclusions. Let's say in a best case scenario he's worth +5 runs defensively at third and worst case scenario he's as bad as -10 runs. So we've got a defensively nuetral Cameron in centerfield, a -10 to +5 Hall at third and an average left fielder. Here's where the Brewers gamble should pay off. While moving Braun to left field raises the expectations for his offense, he's going to be hard pressed to be as bad there defensively. I'd say a reasonable range for Braun in left field is something like -15 to 0.
That would seem to imply that if everything broke wrong (Braun can't play LF well and Hall struggles at third), the Brewers would still gain something like half a win defensively. If everything broke right, it could net them something on the order of 3-4 wins. For $7 million dollars this offseason to sign Cameron, Doug Melvin made a fantastic haul. The reverberations this could have with the pitching staff should be tangible as well.
I wish I could take this scenario and turn into a lesson regarding the Cardinals. The only player that approaches being bad enough defensively to justify a position switch is Chris Duncan. There really isn't anywhere to move him, however, making it a moot point. It's a situation that we haven't been confronted with but it's worth noting how effectively Melvin handled the situation.
The question I'll leave you with this Friday is which player you would want to steal from the Brewers for the Cardinals? Take Richie Weeks for the keystone and give them Kennedy? JJ Hardy for IZturis? Perhaps Yovanni Gallardo would be the best bet and help solidify the rotation -- they can have Reyes. There's a plethora of young talent on the Brewers team and I'm interested to hear who you'd want and why.
*The first night I was sick, I kept waking up convinced that I had to build robots. I would get out from under my blanket and start groping around on the floor for pieces to these robots that I was convinced were waiting to be assembled. The robots were critical components to a top secret government project. I didn't try to build the robots once, but five separate times before I would fully awaken from what I can only describe as the most vivid fever dream I've ever experienced.
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FJM......
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Feb 8, 2008 3:25 AM EST reply actions
Gallardo, turning 22 this month, would be my pick
You make a convincing case that the Brewers will be better defensively, and that they should be just as strong offensively, or stronger, with Braun on the roster for the full year and all their young players having a year more experience.
But you make no mention of their bullpen, which has some big question marks. And you say little about their rotation, which I think is just average on balance. In fact, you don't actually rate the Brewers overall as better or worse than the Cardinals. Maybe you feel it unnecessary to state what many consider to be obvious. If so, I'd like to play devil's advocate.
Gallardo is an exceptional talent, especially to have done what he did last year at age 21. He'd be my pick to move to the Cardinals (but I'd cheat a little by giving the Brewers Thompson rather than Reyes, even though Thompson will probably not be a starter this year).
Bush will probably be no more effective than Looper this year.
Sheets is a #1 pitcher when he is healthy, but he seems to be very injury prone. I wouldn't trade Wainwright for him, given their expected level of performance, their age difference, and their great disparity in salary.
Suppan is solid but no better than average. I'm betting Pineiro will have as good a year.
Capuano seems to have become a merely average pitcher, too. I'd bet on either Clement or Mulder or Reyes or Wellemeyer to emerge as equally effective.
So the Brewers should have an advantage over the Cardinals in scoring, no advantage over the Cardinals defensively, on balance, a rotation better by one pitcher, Gallardo, at least until Carpenter returns, and the Brewers will probably not have as strong a bullpen as the Cardinals. I expect the Brewers will outplay the Cardinals during the first half of the season, but not by a huge margin, and if Rasmus gives the Cardinals a boost by July and Carpenter returns in July, too, even 80% as strong as Pedro Martinez did for the Mets last september, the Cardinals might actually have an overall edge over the Brewers in the second half, assuming Isringhausen is effective again.
There are some major if's for the Cardinals, I know. I admit this is an optimistic scenario, primarily based on the hope that two of the recovering starters will come through, among Clement, Mulder, and Carpenter. Betting on only one would be a more reasonable bet, of course. The Cardinals could actually fall far short of the Brewers, or they could be almost as good early on and possibly better by mid-season.
hmm
One thing we need is above average quality starters and Sheets is a good 1 or 2 in a rotation.
ack
The question with Sheets
The Brew Crew could be outstanding... or (given a few bullpen collapses early in the year) still short of winning.
Cameron's a great addition, though... their defense will be better; I just don't know if it will be good...
by The Ol Goaler on Feb 8, 2008 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Androids and electric sheep...
Brilliant move bringing in Cameron. It changes the entire complexion of that team. I think the Brewers take the division this year if their pen can turn in even half of what the Cards' relief corps will. That's a very, very talented team.
Just wanted to say...
Hmm...
Along with the red baron, I found it very interesting that you were dreaming of building robots, az.
Your Assignment
Extremely poor start to this post
by jeff abs on Feb 8, 2008 9:46 AM EST reply actions
Not me
We have a few Imo's in Springfield, MO
Also
The best part of Imo's,
imo's
STRONGLY Disagree....
i'm sorry
gimma a pizza that's an inch and a half thick FILLED with cheese, sauce, and toppings. If i'm paying 25 bucks for a large pizza, i'm getting my damn 25 bucks worth of food.
spend 25 bucks at imo's for two 16 inch pizzas...
stack 'em together and it's nowhere near the amount of pizza goodness a good ol' deep dish pizza will give ya.
granted if you like thin crust, Imo's is the franchise place to go.
Sorry for the ROIDS rage. (i'm actually taking adrenocortical steroids--naturally occuring steroids mind you--because i have plantar fasciitis)
Makes me feel like Glaus, just not 245 pounds and only suffering from it for 4 weeks, not 4 months.
You're kidding, right?
If those are too corporate for you there are literally thousands of little mom-and-pop places around. I don't know where you live, but there's a place just off the 5 about a mile north of dodger stadium that does huge deep-dish NY-style pizzas cooked in a wood fired oven, can't remember what it's called... Nicky's, maybe? Dude that runs the place used to be an actor, but I've never heard of him.
Yep
by Ray Lankford on Feb 8, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Imo's = teh sux
It's cheez whiz on matzah. It's nasty.
"Acquired taste" is just code for "it tastes like sh!t, but everyone around here eats it, so eventually you get used to it." Ergo, unless you're from St. Louis, Imo's sucks.
If you grew up on the stuff, then I'm sure you think it's great. But people eat bugs in some places, too. Doesn't mean they taste good to the rest of us.
hah!
perfect! I was gonna put my own recipe down - saltines, ketchup and velveta - stuff it in the microwave.
I'm all over chicago-style... a little spinach, or sausage and peppers... man. that's good stuff.
by Birds on the Matt on Feb 8, 2008 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I lived in StL for eight years
SAT Question
There are quite a few decent pizza places around St Louis (Talaynas, Black Thorn, Joanies, Panteras, to name a few). Of course, none of them feature "St Louis style" pizza and most definitely don't use provel.
Gallardo...
I really like Braun's bat too...Even if he's a horribly outfielder, it seems like he would cost the Crew less as a poor OFer than as a poor 3rd baseman. Any move they could make that would move him off third is a good one in my book.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 8, 2008 11:03 AM EST reply actions
Obviously,
Player swapping...
Gallardo is intriguing and I think he would fit to the Cardinals philosophy as he has good sinking action on his fastball and doesn't walk a lot of people. He would be a good addition as well, I just happen to think that Hardy helps out more.
Just for fun, maybe they should pick up Weeks and Braun, play Kennedy at short, Ankiel in center, Duncan in right, and Braun in left just to see if a team can overcome a -1000 run differential on defense. Can you imagine the number of bad routes taken by that outfield in the span of one game? It'd be like watching drunks try and catch baseballs in a hurricane!
Wow
*That is all I took from this post.
Are you sure it was the flu, Azu?
(Kind of like the period of intense emotions, etc. that Vulcan undergo when they are ready to mate. Anyone else remember that episode of Star Trek?)
Geek alert
Rats
Wasn't there a lot of talk last year
Almost getting into a fistfight
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 8, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
And, re pizza ...
Damn, I'm getting a serious provel craving just thinking about it.
re Imo's and food
Agreed
To those of you who've had...
Imo's is the McDonald's of St. Louis style pizza..
I never saw Braun play
Still, there's something to be said for addition by subtraction. Weeks surely isn't the most valuable Brewer out there, but he'd surely be an improvement on the black holes that we're likely to see at second for too much of the season.
I think it's just a matter of reflexes...
Anyways, I don't think Braun could improve enough to not be a liability at third.
If it's just reflexes
by StanTheManFan on Feb 8, 2008 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
The Brew bug.....
I'll take Gallardo and put Loop back in the pen (or in a trade with x, y, z) if Mulder is finally healthy. Hardy would be the second choice.
As far as Azru's recent experiences with the flu and seeing the movie Cloverfield, I suggest dramamine and Haldol to help put him back on his feet. Also Pizza House in Spgfld. Or, maybe someone should be splicing scenes from "I, Robot" and "Blair Witch Project" together one scene at a time and then send him a copy just to see what happens next.
by cardschinmusic on Feb 9, 2008 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
you know,
get on the freakin ball az! my beer ain't going to fetch itself out of the fridge!
Bedard to M's
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080208&content_id=2368497&vkey=hotstove2007&fe xt=.jsp
Bedard to Mariner's for Jones, et al.
Doesn't really affect us much. Purely a curio.
P.S. Sorry erik, no tiny url.
Really...
By the way, I also find it amusing that Erik is now apparently perceived as the "tinyurl Nazi." I think he was just trying to help people post less cumbersome links, rather than issuing an Edict of Tiny URL Compliance.
...PC/WWW literacy
by cardschinmusic on Feb 9, 2008 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
SS
And I firmly believe that tulowitzki was duped from a ROY award. To play better SS than jeter in his prime, and have great power, for a shortstop, is rookie of the year material, not shitty defense at third just because you can hit the damn ball.
I play better defense at SS than Jeter
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 8, 2008 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
If there were enough yankees fans on this board
Braun
Has anyone looked at his '07 numbers projected over 162 games? .324/49/139 with 22 steals. Horrifying, especially for a 23 year old.
His '08 PECOTA is also off the charts.
Az what have you done?
I think your safe right now, they have an APB out for the only name they could make out, Bill James.
Call them off PLEASE, were begging you!!!!!

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