Cards Signed Juan Gone

by jjray on Feb 4, 2008 5:29 PM EST Comment 66 comments

It's a minor league contract ... but I still don't trust TLR to give Juan a fair and balanced evaluation: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/5C9E01BF754FC855862573E50069DA42 ?OpenDocument

That is the problem with continually have the mindset that the team is in the hunt. Tomorrow gets sacrificed for today. We have a lot of young talent in the OF. The Cards need to sort that talent out and see what they have. Yes, the team can use a right handed power bat on the bench but Juan has had 128 ML ABs since 2003! I just don't see this guy helping the Cards in any meaningful way. Who do show the door so Juan makes the team?

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Juan....

If he makes the team (which is a massive long-shot)he'll push Skippy off the team.

I don't see the problem really.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Feb 4, 2008 5:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed Bobby

If Juan is good he takes Skippy's spot, who cares?

Besides if Juan stinks I doubt he will stick around in the Cards minor league system.

I see it as if Juan does not make the big club he will quit.

by ICbirdfan on Feb 4, 2008 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm stocking up on my Y2K supplies

this is 1999 right?

by azruavatar on Feb 4, 2008 5:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Right handed bat off the bench...

Tony must be drooling right now ...a almost 40 yr. old vet. he can bring in to pinch hit and double switch in late innings.. he'll make the team...bet your bottom dollar on that.. Just look at the guys names who brought him to the Cards attention....he'll be there.

by Timbo02 on Feb 4, 2008 5:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

He's no lock...

He'll have to play really well in ST to make the team, and considering the guy hasn't been productive in years....the chances are slim.

No risk though. Who cares.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Feb 4, 2008 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I completely agree.

I understand it is a minor league deal-but if he stays in our minor league system, he takes playing time away from players that must be evaluated for the future. Remember, they already have signed a few projects for the minor league team-Brazelton, Wasdin, Jimenez. Stop it already. It's only going to hurt the organization in the long run. If there's one thing this organization has, it's outfielders. Mr. LaRussa will continue on as he has in the past-he'll play the stud potential superstar-Colby will get his chances. But players that just might be useful will never see the ML. At least with the Cardinals. When they resigned Mr. LaRussa, I said I was distressed and distraught. I still feel that way, except now I feel a little sick too.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Feb 4, 2008 5:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The post above was a reply to jjray's

original post. Everyone else snuck in before I hit the post button. I know it makes everyone crazy when the reply to this button isn't used--I did use it. I just didn't type fast enough, I guess.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Feb 4, 2008 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Your reply worked fine

Your reply is exactly as you meant it, just isn't the first one, imagine posts as bullets:

I: main point, diary or main page entrys, in this case jjray's
1: unindented comments, this is a direct reply to I and is what your post was
i: first indent, this is a reply to 1, a comment on a comment, other indents work just the same way

by StLHugo on Feb 4, 2008 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, okay. I was posting when there were no

other comments up. That has never happened to me before. I get it now. I feel pretty stupid........

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Feb 4, 2008 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not at all

You are not stupid, in fact far from it from what I can tell.

by StLHugo on Feb 4, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Woo Hoo!!

I love a good sideshow!

Fame was like a drug, but what was even more like a drug were the drugs

by Alxfritz on Feb 4, 2008 5:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

See if he shows up

healthy in Jupiter... he hasn't been healthy since tearing his hammy in the last AB; so AP, Yadi, and Jose say he's lookin' great. Fine; lessee if he has anything left in the tank.

Who's he blocking, even if he makes the team? It's not like the Cards have an abundance of RH bats in the OF.

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Feb 4, 2008 6:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Championship!!

sign me up! Where do I order the t shirts????/

The hot stove is burning...

by cardzfan24 on Feb 4, 2008 6:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Don't see a problem at all

We are going to make a trade in spring training, I feel it deep in my bones right now, we have WAY too many outfielders so we have to trade some away, I believe skip is out of options and we now have the ability to trade Skip and Duncan without losing much if Barton and Juan G play up to potential.

Also I don't see this as taking minor league time away since a lot of major leaguers that take minor league deals have out clauses if they don't make the main squad, I would expect Juan to have such a clause.

by StLHugo on Feb 4, 2008 6:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Here is why I am worried

Because Juan will play in the first couple of ST games. Hit a couple of late HR's off guys that will be cut from their college team and TLR will get a man-crush and ignore his 2-35 for the rest of ST and will start opening day vs. a RHP. Meanwhile, Skippy will get claimed off waivers when he is optioned to AAA. Then we have to suffer two weeks of Pujols getting walked because for whatever reason Juan will be batting 4th, because he's a good "RBI guy" and Glaus gets to lead off more times than our leadoff hitters.

Or something like that.

by Harknights on Feb 4, 2008 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Juan G

The Brett Favre of this years baseball season. The ageless one.

I love it

"And that's a winner. A World Series winner for the Cardinals."

by Bird Watcher on Feb 4, 2008 6:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

shockingly

he's only one year older than Edmonds, assuming he didn't forge a birth certificate (and the fact that he was playing in the big leagues at the age of 19 makes that unlikely!) Of course, we traded Edmonds in large part because he was too old; dunno what signing someone older is supposed to accomplish.

Meh. I view this signing not with anger or disgust but rather with head scratching. Juan Gone wasn't even good in 2004...

by SleepyCA on Feb 4, 2008 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Correction...

St. Louis traded Edmonds because he wanted to be an everyday player rather than platooned. Juan's just looking for a job (for a much smaller paycheck, too).

by Forsch31 on Feb 4, 2008 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

but if Edmonds didn't get old

he wouldn't have had to worry about being platooned. Dumbest thing he ever did.

by SleepyCA on Feb 5, 2008 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You know TLR is...

...sitting there with a bottle of lotion and a box of Kleenex next to his laptop reading this story over and over again in pure ecstasy.

Rasmus or bust.

by Zoop on Feb 4, 2008 6:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

So Very Wrong

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

by Dave Barry on Feb 4, 2008 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah no kidding

great visual there zoop . . . . keep that up, you'll go far.

by lboros on Feb 4, 2008 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

bow

Rasmus or bust.

by Zoop on Feb 4, 2008 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

heh

I chuckled.

by paCardsFan on Feb 5, 2008 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

skippy

Skippy is our CF placeholder. I'm just not sold on Rick defensively in center. He's still learning RF (and has enough speed to make up for the bad routes) but bad tracks to the ball in CF are disastrous. If we are going to commit to Rasmus from day 1 in STL and just let him learn on the job, fine, I can do without Skip. If no Rasmus, we need Skip for a season.

by jjray on Feb 4, 2008 7:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ugh, I'd rather have Ludwick....

He can play CF about as well as Skip, and is more likely to hit better.

by DiscoJer on Feb 4, 2008 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Barton, Ludwick, Ankiel

Plenty of CF's.

That being said, it's doubtful Juan makes the team and Skip will probably keep a spot on the roster warm for Rasmus.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Feb 5, 2008 2:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Im not too

concerned. Juan is, as mentioned above, and extreme long shot. he makes the team, great. If not im sure he'll just retire again. My only issue would be if he took playing time away from The Chosen One, which he wont.
It's not as if we have any other minor league OFers waiting in the wings. As KLaw has stated before, we have tons of Ofers that project to be fourth OFers, but thats it.

I still love you Scotty Ro : )

by Dttl89 on Feb 4, 2008 7:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Healthy

This is the guy that went out on the first AB of the season. This guy is not going to make it out of Spring Training healthy.

by DimitroffVodka on Feb 4, 2008 8:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe he can be this year's Bobby Bonilla

He'll get hurt at the last minute, and the future hall of famer will take his roster spot.

I can live with that.

by Valatan on Feb 4, 2008 9:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Shooting milk out my nose

That got a loud laugh out of me, glad no one was home to hear it.
So you are seeing this as a glass half full thing then. I like it. Who will be the potential HoF then?

http://welcometojohnsonville.blogspot.com

by arthropodtodd on Feb 4, 2008 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

HOF potential?

Rasmus

by mattlo on Feb 4, 2008 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather

he be the next Greg Vaughn. Not do shit in camp, get released, and the Cards win 105 games.

Fame was like a drug, but what was even more like a drug were the drugs

by Alxfritz on Feb 4, 2008 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah,

I'm down with that.

I don't see all the complaining over this signing. We're paying practically nothing for him to get a shot at pulling some miracle. It worked for Sosa in Texas. Maybe it'll work for Juan (yes, I know there are several differences in their careers but it was the only example I could think of that worked).

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Feb 6, 2008 1:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

one of transaction oracles

best posts

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/60002/

I hate... so much about the things that you choose to be.

by erik on Feb 5, 2008 12:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the link

Funny stuff, like the trip to Iraq.

by That's a Winner on Feb 5, 2008 8:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

clever

What do all those analogs have in common?... Actions of the desperate and/or naive.
I don't think Mo is is either of these things, but this move certainly has has a similar stench.

In reality, I think Mo considers this move as a non-factor in regards to the eventual roster. It's likely that AP and Molina have genuine feelings for their countryman and - after seeing Juan in action - felt that he still had something to offer. They lobbied Mo accordingly. Though Mo disagreed, as a favor to those two, said 'ah, what the hell. it may give me some leverage at a later date.'

I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.

by _pistol_ on Feb 5, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Countryman?

FWIW, Juan Gone is from Puerto Rico, as is Yadi. Albert is a native of the Dominican Republic.

by DizzyDean17 on Feb 5, 2008 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2008 and beyond

It probably has no impact on 2008. They might stick him on the roster and he'll make it a month or two into the season before he gets hurt again. This might cost the Cardinals a win or two on their march to 75. And this might cost them Barton or Schumaker, neither of which projects to be all that important.

It does make me wonder about Mozeliak though. Maybe he's just humoring Pujols and Molina. Or maybe he's got some pretty dumb "low risk" ideas about how to build a contender.

by Rob H on Feb 5, 2008 4:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Minor league deal

he will have to do alot to make the team. i would rather seen reggie sanders signed to help out in the outfield. i know both are old but if i had to pick one it would be reggie. but you never know juan might have a 25 hr season.possible but not likley.
i am not totally againist the signing but i would be suprised if he makes the team.

HURRY BACK CARP AND MULDER

by LaRussa4President on Feb 5, 2008 5:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

dumb signing

"can juan gone pull a julio franco?" is the wrong question for the cardinals to be asking. they should be single-mindedly asking questions like "can brian barton pull a josh hamilton?" or "can brendan ryan play every day?" the risk for asking those questions is just as low as an NRI to gonzo, but the potential payoff is much higher --- if the answer comes back "yes," it helps the team not only this year but for several years to come.

it'd be a neat trick if gonzo were to put up an .850 OPS, but at his age (and with his defense) it would still be a waste of time. it wouldn't move the team any closer to championship-caliber.

by lboros on Feb 5, 2008 7:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Cards aren't going to be a 100 win team...

and they don't have to be. If Juan Gone can add 1-2 wins over the Skips of the world, that might be all it takes to sneak into playoffs.

I commend the Cards for trying to find a way to win in seasons when it isn't obvious they can do it.

80+ wins can win a division and a trip to the dance, so if he gets us there, I'm for that.

Nothing to lose and lots to gain.

by The Duke on Feb 5, 2008 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is stupid

I really don't care about this being a "low-risk" signing. I see one of a couple different things happening here.

He stinks up the joint and gets sent packing. However, b/c he's Juan Gonzalez and was once a superstar, he'll get more attention during his reign of stinkitude than Bobby Fluffball or whatever the hell random crappy ST invitee would. Instead of making evaluations of where guys like Rasmus, Barton, and Ludwick are, they'll be looking at JuanGon. The evaluation of the current talent level of these other guys will be less definate than it could have otherwise been. Sadly, that is the best case scenario at this point.
He bashes around a few pitchers who will bagging groceries by August and makes the team, and then gets embarrased by real MLB pitchers b/c he hasn't played in 3 seasons, gets cut, and takes AB's away from younger players (who can actually still play in the field) in the process.
He sticks as a righty pinch hitter who can't do much else. Once again, he's stealing AB's from someone else. Even if its Skippy, you're still puting your eggs in the basket of a very old extremely limited player.

I really see this as a pointless exercise. If by some miracle he tears up the Grapefruit League and hits 45 home runs during the regular season, I'll eat my words. But that isn't happening, not in a million freaking years.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 5, 2008 9:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

if he costs brian barton

a roster spot, well i'll...i'll...carry out some sort of threat that i'll think of later...yes. i agree lb, it's incredibly stupid. the "it's not like we're deep out there" regarding the of by larussa scares me..let's see, players better then juan gone---

duncan
rasmus
ludwick
ankiel
barton
schumaker
mather
haerther
spiezio

hmmm...every of on the 40 man is better.

I hate... so much about the things that you choose to be.

by erik on Feb 5, 2008 9:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I know what I'd do

Commit Harry Carry, not disembowl myself, grab a bottle of Jack Daniels and drink until I forgot that Brian Barton fell in our laps. It may take more than one bottle.

BTW Erik, liked the post on Brian Barton at Future Redbirds. I have high hopes for him also.

by That's a Winner on Feb 5, 2008 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

actually

azruavatar wrote that.

I hate... so much about the things that you choose to be.

by erik on Feb 5, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

In that case it sucked.

I kid Az, I kid. Good post.

by That's a Winner on Feb 5, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Because I'm a nerd....

Please, for future reference of all VEBers...

Harry Caray - Cardinals, A's, White Sox, and Cubs announcer.

Harry Carey - character actor of early Hollywood, died 1947.

hara-kiri - Japanese suicide method

by flynn on Feb 5, 2008 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry

Just typing too fast. But I felt better after I googled Harry Carry, I'm sure not alone.

by That's a Winner on Feb 5, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't decide who I want to see

more at spring training....

Juan Gone, the football coach who may have cheated the Rams out of a Super Bowl, or the basketball coach who quit on his team in mid season.

Why does Tony make me hate? Please forgive me. Let's hope this is a non-issue and Juan is sent packing.

by lefty fan on Feb 5, 2008 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

one more time.....KEVIN MENCH

the article says the cards are looking for a right handed option. why arent they talking to kevin mench? career ops of .924 vs. lefties. he is under the age of 50, has played baseball as recently as last season, is capable of running out grounders without tearing a hamstring and is mildly capable of playing in the outfield. if outfield defense is of little concern, there is josh phelps (career ops of .864 vs lefties). i am not sure what igor adds that those two options wouldnt.

by dmb60614 on Feb 5, 2008 9:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

the new sosa

just chiming in that juan's consumption of opportunity in ST is a negative for the team. going in i was expecting duncan/ludwick, skippy.barton (leadoff), and ankiel as real outfielders. if rick stays on top of the lefties, this isn't too bad. rasmus can/should start in memphis. i'd rather see haerther (or any younger player) get juan's at bats in ST. i just see Mo treading water between giving young guys a chance and finding the scrap heap irresistible. interesting that he's not really doing this with pitching. seems pitching is open to the possibility of one of the younger guys from the minors being next in line (not counting the codgers they signed early in the fall). i guess he's walking the narrow line, but hopefully when they head north they will have some kind of rational plan for building a roster that is either prepared to compete in 08 or prepping to compete in 09. seems hard to to believe, however, they will take the optimal approach to either.

by sportsman on Feb 5, 2008 9:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

strategy???

You know - this could just be a strategic move to motivate the youngsters (competition), or to offer them veteran supervision from an MVP caliber player during the spring (who will then be cut after spring training). There is a hole in leadership out there with the loss of Edmonds.

Not saying it is likely...... .....trying to figure out why the front office finds JGon necessary, or even appealing.

by cdb on Feb 5, 2008 10:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Correction

FORMER MVP winner . . . NOT MVP Caliber.

by Ray Lankford on Feb 5, 2008 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

I believe the original statement was correct.

Caliber: degree of capacity or competence; ability

Since Juan already won an MVP, he clearly has the capacity or competence to do it. Once an MVP, always an MVP.

by stl3bagger on Feb 5, 2008 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

My point was that he doesn't currently have the capacity or ability to do it. Just because he's done it doesn't mean he has the current ability to do it. Do you disagree?

by Ray Lankford on Feb 5, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

semantics

my original point was just that Juan has alot of experience playing baseball well.

by cdb on Feb 5, 2008 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

I see what you're saying, but puting a 38-year-old has been who was once pretty damn good in front of Tony La Russa is like stuffing a person with a serious eating disorder in the Haagen-Dazs factory and leaving him nothing but a cell phone, a toothbrush, and a very large bag of plastic spoons. Its way too much temptation for TLR.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 5, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There are times

in a fan's life when you start to question who you are and what you believe in as a fan.

I don't believe in Tony LaRussa. I'm trying to believe in Mo, but when we sign 40yr old outfielders because our 1B and C say so, then I'm wondering on who is wearing the panties in the family.

The only silver lining is that this will draw about 5 seconds of pressure off of Colby this spring, and make Mo and TLR look like asshats.

"Dude, we're running out of stadium" - said on the way to our seats in Section 428.

by bukowski on Feb 5, 2008 10:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Royals are laughing at us

That is all.

"Dude, we're running out of stadium" - said on the way to our seats in Section 428.

by bukowski on Feb 5, 2008 11:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Tribe

I bet the Indians are laughing harder. He was a member of their squad in 2005. Well, sort of. I mean, he did have a jersey to wear and stuff, and I think they gave him a few paychecks and a neato team cap. He blew out his hammy in his first at bat of the season, and hasn't been seen since.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 5, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I Think Yer All Missing the Point... :=8/

Letting Juan Gone come to Spring Training only gives them an extra option: who doesn't want options that might help the club? The fact that he hasn't played much in 3 years may not be so bad either - it means he's had time to heal up. The most pressing need for him is to be able to re-adjust to major league pitching, which is what they'll evaluate him on. AP & others have remarked on his good shape and work ethic, two things needed on this club, not to mention veteran leadership. He will only be added to the club if he can truly contribute in a meaningful fashion, which is why I think his addition is something of a long shot. But Sosa came back and contributed; others have walked that road before too. IF, and its a pretty big if, if he can come back and actually play well it could be a big addition to the club, why not take the chance? Having him around at the very least makes the others in Spring Training work extra harder to earn their roster spots. Competition is HEALTHY. Let's just see how things play out before everyone start wringing their hands and wailing to the baseball gods. The Cards have nothing to lose by taking a peek.
:=8)

Go Cards! :=8D

by MooCowMoo on Feb 5, 2008 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

competition is healthy

a true competition is healthy. with larussa, you have to wonder if it is going to be a true competition.

there is another issue, and that is that he may be stealing at bats from barton, mather, phelps, marti or someone else...someone that might actually have a future with the team. juan is 38 going on 50. i think, at best, you get one season out of him. that season comes at the expense of valuable experience for someone else.

by dmb60614 on Feb 5, 2008 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs