Super Bowl Sunday
So I decided to take a brief hiatus from the series I began last week on the division previews in light of the fact that it's Super Bowl Sunday. Since it is the 3rd most gluttonous day of the year, I'm not at all certain that there's going to be a lot of traffic today so I'll pick up the series next Sunday with a preview of the AL Central. For the same reason, LB won't be posting any results for the Tournament of Champions today; that'll resume tomorrow.
What does the Super Bowl have to do with baseball and the Cardinals? I don't really know but I thought I'd try to look into my crystal ball and see if we could predict anything about the Cardinals season this year based on the outcome of today's game.
Today's game pits two teams who've played in 4 of the last 7 Super Bowls and we are, by now, all too aware that the Patriots can claim their 4th title in the last 7 years with a win tonight. Both teams have winning records in Super Bowls - the Pats are 3-2 and the Giants are 2-1. Of course, one team will fall to .500 after tonight's game but winning as many championships as you finish 2nd is not too bad a record to have. The Cards, too, have a winning record in their Super Bowl - with a 10-7 record in World Series.
Interestingly, the Cards have had a winning record every year that the Giants have played in the Super Bowl. Mind you, I'm using the year the team has played in the Super Bowl and not the year in which that season is played. (The 2008 Super Bowl is for the 2007 season.) In each of the 3 years the Giants have played in the Super Bowl (1987, 1991, and 2001), the Cards have had a winning record, going to the World Series in 1987 and tying for the NL Central title and earning the Wild Card spot in the 2001 playoffs. In 1991, the Cards finished 84-78 and second to the Pittsburgh Pirates (it seems like forever ago when they had a decent team!). The Giants won the 1987 and 1991 Super Bowls, while getting trounced in 2001.
There seems to be a lot of correlation between the Patriots' Super Bowl fortunes and the Cards' regular season fortunes, however. (I know that correlation is not the same thing as causation, but I thought this would be a fun experiment nonetheless.) See below:
| Year | Super Bowl W/L | Cards' record | Cards' finish |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2005 | W | 100-62 | NLCS |
| 2004 | W | 105-57 | NL Champs |
| 2002 | W | 97-65 | NLCS |
| 1997 | L | 73-89 | 4th |
| 1986 | L | 79-82 | 3rd |
Wow! Go Pats!
Even in the year the Giants lost their Super Bowl, 2001, the Cards won 93 games. Maybe the secret to a successful season isn't a resurgent Mark Mulder or Troy Glaus, or a Rookie of the Year award for Colby Rasmus. Maybe all we need to contend for the division title is for the Patriots to close out their perfect season with a victory.
In thinking about how I was going to deal w/ my Super Bowl Sunday thread, it occurred to me that the Patriots strike me as a team that is, in a lot of ways, very similar to the 2004 Cardinals. How dominant were the Cardinals that year? It seems so long ago but that was a damned good team. Let me first say that I don't know all that much about the NFL as I don't follow it that closely but the Patriots, first and foremost, are a tremendous offensive team. Tom Brady is their Pujols - the cornerstone of the offense. But like the Cards' offense of 2004, he's not the focal point of the offense (as Pujols was last year).
Just as Pujols had a lot of help from MVP top-10 finishers Rolen and Edmonds, Randy Moss has had a record-setting year at WR and were it not for the spectacular season Brady has had, Moss might've been the league MVP. Wes Welker tied for the NFL lead in receptions with 112. Are Brady, Moss, and Welker the Patriots' Pujols, Rolen, and Edmonds?
They have other offensive weapons as well from Maroney to Faulk to Gaffney to Ben Watson. Teams can't defend all of their weapons and it was very difficult to pitch through the Cards potent lineup that also included Renteria, Walker, Sanders. Hell, even Tony Womack had a career-high .349 OBP. The Cards led the league by scoring 5.28 runs per game. The Patriots' offense is the best in the NFL, averaging 36.8 pts. per game.
In 2004, the Cards' yielded only 4.07 runs per game, best in the NL. This team had very good pitching, with an ERA+ of 114, and very good defense, with a fielding efficiency of .710. The Pats' defense isn't quite as good as the Cards' as it finished 4th in the NFL, giving up only 17.1 pts. per game. Still, a team that scores 589 and gives up 274 is going to have a pretty good Pythagorean record!
The Pats' 16-0 regular season record, and 18-0 overall record is, as we all know by now, the NFL's best since the 1972 Miami Dolphins. The Cards' 105 wins in 2004 were MLB's best since the 1998 Yankees. There's little doubt that the Patriots are, to this point, the NFL's team of the decade and there's a pretty good argument to be made that the Cardinals are, to this point, at least the National League's team of the decade.
As I said, I don't know a ton about the NFL but I do know that the Giants aren't really supposed to be here. They've played well down the stretch and beat the NFC's two best teams in the playoffs but I think that most "experts" believed the Giants to be a year or two away. In a sense, they remind me a little of the 1996 Cardinals team that seemed to come out of nowhere to get to 1 win away from the World Series. That Cardinals team, of course, had the then-juggernaut Atlanta Braves on the ropes before succumbing to the Braves' pitching. The Giants have to be hoping that Todd Stottlemyre and Donovan Osborne aren't suiting up for them tonight or the 4th quarter could get ugly.
I felt in 2004, as I do now, that the Cards had a magical season and it just slipped away - into the right-field seats off the bat of Mark Bellhorn, of all people. I'm going to hope today that Patriots can do what the Cards couldn't in '04 - finish off their magical season. I know that's going to piss off a lot of you Rams' fans. Sorry about that but the Cards were, it seems to me, so close to a season that goes down in folklore as one of the best ever. The '06 postseason was magical but the regular season was largely forgettable. I still have an empty feeling from 2004, despite the championship in '06. So I'm going to pull for the Pats to shake off the Cards' 2004 demons and give their magical season the magical ending it deserves.
Plus, a Pats' win tonight guarantees a 90+ win season for the Cards in '08, right?
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58 comments
Comments
The 2001 Mariners
(and man, oh man, do I miss 2004. That summer/fall was beyond awesome.)
by Alxfritz on Feb 3, 2008 1:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Beat me to it!
BTW, that Mariners team was pretty damn good too. They scored 30 more runs than the next best AL team, and 18 runs less than the A's, who were second in that category. They had rather pedestrian players such as Dan Wilson, Al Martin, and David Bell, plus a pre-good Carlos Guillen, but made up for it with monster years from Edgar Martinez (OPS+ 160), Bret Boone (37 HR! for Bret effing BOONE?), and John Olerud (136 OPS+).
They also had three sub-4.00 era pitchers (Garcia, Sele, Moyer) and got 75+ innings of pure filth from ourveryown Joel Piniero. Their two setup guys (Jeff Nelson, Arthur Rhodes) were at 151 and 242 on the ERA+ scale. Damn good team.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2008 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't root for the Pats
I'm a Redskins fan but I'm sure there are many Rams fans livid at the revelations in the past 2 days that the Patriots videotaped the Rams final walkthrough (in which they went over their redzone offense). The NFL originally said they had no idea about this but has since backtracked and said they heard rumors earlier this year and investigated to find nothing. Of course, when the alleged source of this info was asked whether he had been contacted by the NFL, he said not at all.
What does this have to do with baseball? If the NFL is forced to levy heavy fines/suspensions against Bellicheat and the Patriots, I can only imagine that the ownership/management group in San Fransisco who are already feeling pressure from MLB will start moving funds to off-shore accounts. :D
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 3, 2008 2:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Patriots
Unfortunately, we will get some bullshit cover-up and nothing will happen to these cheaters. Maybe they can assign George Mitchell, is he on the board of the Patriots also?
by Elvis on Feb 3, 2008 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no no no
And wouldn't it just be a bitch to tease any "patriot" fan if they go 17 wins, one loss, and that one loss was the superbowl. Completely dosn't matter if they won for 17 games straight.
I can never, ever root for a boston team in my life. And I especially dislike "fans" of teams where the person has never even BEEN to the stadium.
"so what baseball team do you like the most?"
"oh i'm a redsox fan"
"oh, okay...how many times you been to fenway park?"
"never been"
".....why are you a red sox fan?"
EXACTLY.
(granted i like the nats but they're not my favorite team, i have a soft spot for teams from our capital)
by cardwash on Feb 3, 2008 5:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
i'm with you HC
by lboros on Feb 3, 2008 8:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The only thing
by Big Mike on Feb 3, 2008 9:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
HC
I don't think I can continue to contribute to a site that condones comments like that. . .appalling.
by azruavatar on Feb 3, 2008 9:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I read, quite thoroughly,
Just so you know -- all you Giants fans are pulling for a 70-something win season from the Cards!
by chuckb on Feb 3, 2008 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
"ditto if your behavior was so offensive that it was driving customers away from a sports bar."
Don't go azruavatar, Don't go.
by That's a Winner on Feb 3, 2008 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take a 70 win season
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 3, 2008 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And you don't think
by Mr Redbird on Feb 3, 2008 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No Doubt
by BKKCard on Feb 3, 2008 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do not have a dog
by ridgesee on Feb 3, 2008 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For me
This years Pats team reminds me of a team from another sport, the NBA. The '96 Bulls went 72-10, as close to undefeated as there ever has been in pro basketball, and went through teams like a buzzsaw chewing up anyone in their path to the title. I hope I'm wrong but I think the only reason to watch the second half will be for the ads.
by That's a Winner on Feb 3, 2008 11:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Last year...
But the Colts started playing defense at the end of the season and in the playoffs....just like Suppan, Weaver, Reyes, and a young bullpen pulled it together enough to look like a real pitching staff besides Carpenter.
I felt the Colts victory last year was a kind of vindication of the Cardinals' 2006 season.
by ncgostl on Feb 3, 2008 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No causation...
I "burned out" on the NFL by too much exposure to Bill Bidwill's team in my youth. While I'm happy (mostly for friends and relatives) when the Rams win, I'm pretty apathetic when they don't. Living in Jonesboro, Arkansas, I get all the Cowboys and Tennessee Titans I can eat on my TV...
Root for a New York team against a team from (more-or-less) Boston??? Is there any way they can both lose???
Oh, well, if the game gets boring, I can always pop in my World Series DVDs from the 1940s, 1960s, and 2006! (big grin!)
by The Ol Goaler on Feb 3, 2008 11:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Alls well that ends well....
With the cheating scandal about to regain new life, a massive Irish hangover and a heartbreaking loss to wake up with Mon morning, Im glad Im not wearing a "Boston Patriots" jersey right now.
by cardschinmusic on Feb 4, 2008 6:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eeewww
To be honest, Boston is a great city. Fenway, despite being a rat-trap fire hazard, is an incredible place to go to a game at. The atmosphere is absolutely unreal. With all that said, I can't bring myself to cheer for any Boston team (with the possible exception of the Celtics) ever.
Anyway, good post.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2008 1:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Soap Box
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2008 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't
by rockin redbird on Feb 3, 2008 3:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't Disagree More
I bascially agree with Azruavator on this one. Your pro-Patriot propoganda turns my stomach.
by Titus Pullo on Feb 3, 2008 3:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Get over it!
by chuckb on Feb 4, 2008 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
That being said, the Patriots can
The rest of this post has been deleted for your protection.
-the Department of Human Decency
by the red baron on Feb 3, 2008 4:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Juan Gonzalez minor league deal
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 3, 2008 5:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think I just
by Harknights on Feb 3, 2008 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he teaches Albert and Yadi
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 3, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fun
by Elvis on Feb 3, 2008 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why? Why? Why?
by jillsinmo on Feb 3, 2008 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That sound you hear
I can live with 70 wins after watching that 4th quarter.
by azruavatar on Feb 3, 2008 10:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Same here
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 3, 2008 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I had a feeling
by chuckb on Feb 3, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And what a sweet
by iron duke75 on Feb 3, 2008 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
odds
by barry whiteteeth on Feb 3, 2008 10:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I did not.
How about Bellicek leaving the field before the game was over? Class act. Not.
by jillsinmo on Feb 3, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
He's a piece of work. He's just a angry little cyborg man.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What?
by Red Blazer on Feb 3, 2008 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just see it as part of the game.
by jillsinmo on Feb 3, 2008 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Addendum
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2008 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A(?) angry little cyborg man?
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2008 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SEC QB's > Big 10 QB's
by Mr Redbird on Feb 3, 2008 10:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Freaking wow, Steve Young
Now, I'm no steel expert, but don't you forge stuff INSIDE a foundry? That seems like a wierd quote to me.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2008 10:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Emmitt
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 3, 2008 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the Giants did win but...
by Red Blazer on Feb 3, 2008 10:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
THEY got lucky?
If the Giants were lucky, it was time someone else got a turn.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 3, 2008 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Strahan
by Mr Redbird on Feb 3, 2008 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i had this thought but wanted to wait and see
by punchinjudy on Feb 3, 2008 11:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I always thought of the 2006 Cards
by Mr Redbird on Feb 3, 2008 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
tragically for the Giants
by azruavatar on Feb 3, 2008 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
true
by punchinjudy on Feb 3, 2008 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow, just wow
i don't hold it against anyone who was pulling for one of the most evil of evil teams. it's a free country. you can do as you choose. but in all reality what they do has nothing to do with the Cardinals success here in 08. as i'm wrapping up my tour of st louis & now here in springfield. i've been by both parks a lot these last few weeks. it's very clear to me they & they alone hold the key to their success. if they pitch well, hit well & don't commit errors, they are going to have a lot more success than any one of us think. if not, well, at least we all will be expecting it. so hopefully their losses won't hurt as badly as they did in 07.
pitchers & catchers report in 11 days. i for one, can't wait.
by gdm426 on Feb 4, 2008 12:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
man
by cardwash on Feb 4, 2008 3:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hey, just noticed this
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 4, 2008 8:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What a great f'ing Super Bowl
Bellichick leaving before the game was officially over says all that needs to be said about his sorry, classless ass. If his PLAYERS had to suck it up and line up on the field for the last snap with 1 second left, his pissy ass should've been on the sidelines with them. What a piece of work.
Schadenfreude, at times, feels pretty damn sweet.
by Mr Clean on Feb 4, 2008 5:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

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