NL Central: Chicago Cubs
As an analyst, you always want to be as objective as possible. I make a concerted effort to set aside my baseball loyalties when I'm evaluating other teams or players. My preconceived notions aren't going to do anything but hinder an accurate estimation of talent levels. As a writer on a team-centric blog, there's less need to be 100% objective. Expressing those loyalties and feelings about the team that everyone is rooting for isn't a bad thing and often let readers connect to the writing better. In some ways, I'm reminded of Emily Dickinson's poem Tell all the truth but tell it slant:
Tell all the Truth but tell it slant --
Success in Circuit lies
Too bright for our infirm Delight
The Truth's superb surpriseAs Lightning to the Children eased
With explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind --
With all that in mind, I hate the Cubs.
It's not a little hate; it's a visceral deeply rooted one. I don't like to see their team have success. I don't like their players. I don't like their coaches. I don't like them. I want them to reach their Century of Futility, to withhold the joy of a World Series that we so recently experienced. I don't want good things for them. Period.
Tragically, on paper, they appear to be the best team in the NL Central. If they acquire Brian Roberts, I'd call them the runaway favorites. It may be some time before they wrap up that deal given the glacial speed of the Orioles but the Cubs are a good team with a few weaknesses that are built to win now.
Starting Position Players:
Geovany Soto, C; Derrek Lee, 1B; Mark DeRosa, 2B; Ryan Theriot, SS; Aramis Ramirez, 3B; Kosuke Fukudome, RF; Felix Pie, CF; Alfonso Soriano, LF
Remember when Lee when apeshit on the league back in 2005. He hit .335/.418/.662 with 46 bombs and every Cubs fan thought this was his new level of production; that they had found a counter to Pujols. Someone that would carry their team offensively moving forward. Besides the fact that he was almost certainly bound to regress, he suffered a broken wrist in 2006 and his power dropped off considerably from 2005. He lost 125 points of ISO compared to that career year and has only hit 30 homeruns in 2006 & 2007. He still represents the most potent bat in the Cubs lineup primarily because he walks a great deal with an OBP nearing .400.
Ramirez and Soriano are the other holdover offensive powerhouses. Both players are more reliant on their power than Lee to be productive but they both have power in spades. At 32, Soriano has an unseemly 7 years left on his contract. I'm just waiting to enjoy the albatross that that becomes. Ramirez signed a somewhat club friendly contract shortly after declaring free agency. Both are above average players capable of having MVP type career years.
DeRosa and Theriot are both over-exposed as regulars but Theriot much more so. It's possible that Ronny Cedeno could re-emerge in the SS picture but that ship appears to have sailed. Theriot was not a good player last year posting an OBP of .323 and an OPS of .669 with average defense at SS. Yet the Cubs seem to be pondering the idea of batting him at the top of the order, which is perplexing at best. Roberts addition would push DeRosa back into the super-sub role and probably represents a 1-2 win upgrade.
I'll admit my ignorance regarding Pie (pronounced pee-yay). He's been in the Cubs system the last few years and has gotten mixed reviews. He's alternately been called the next Corey Patterson and an All-Star. The truth, of course, is somewhere in the middle and Pie will probably settle in as decent player that doesn't hurt the Cubs in any way and could potentially be a boost. He's regarded as a good fielder with decent power, good speed and some lingering questions about his bat.
The two most interesting players on the team, in my opinion, are Kosuke Fukudome and Geovany Soto. While I was disheartened to hear that Fukudome may where his first name on his jersey, I was more disheartened by the massive OBP upgrade he offers to the Cubs. I'll be shocked if a writer at some point this year doesn't comment on Fukudome "lacking the power to play a corner outfield position" or some other such garbage along those lines. The standard mantra for people obsessed with getting a certain type of production from a certain position will cloud the fact that the Cubs don't need more power, they needed an on base threat at the top of their lineup. More importantly, even without above average power production, Fukudome can be an above average player - something that seems to perplex those aforementioned writers. If Fukudome bats second, the Cubs will score a lot of runs this year.
Soto is the top catching prospect from last year who took over the major league job. Writers wasted no time in falling all over themselves based on his performance last year. He suddenly became a top prospect after failing to even be recognized the previous year in some cases. As someone who watches the minors, I can see how easy it is to become completely enamored with a prospect when they perform well (see: Mather, Joe; Hoffpauir, Jarrett) but I don't think Soto is a particularly good hitter despite the success he experienced last year. He's someone I'll be keeping a close eye on to find out whether I was missing out on something or if regression continues to be the heartless character it always is.
Starting Rotation:
Carlos Zambrano, Ted Lilly, Rich Hill and some combination of Ryan Dempster, Jason Marquis, Jon Lieber and Sean Marshall
Zambrano is arguably the best pitcher in the NL Central with Roy Oswalt as the only real competition after Chris Carpenter was injured. If nothing else he's certainly the most entertaining pitcher in the Central when we consider player brawls. His demeanor is both an asset and a hinderance but he's shown that he can handle the innings workload and dominate teams. He fits that front of the rotation mold to perfection.
Ted Lilly was championed by LBoros during the previous offseason, and he delivered the goods in 2007. With career highs in innings pitched and strikeouts, Lilly was an excellent lefthanded pitcher last year. Projection systems aren't particularly high on him moving forward but it will be interesting to see if he can continue to build on his success since moving to the NL.
Rich Hill is Lilly's wronghanded counterpart. A dominant pitcher in the minors from 2005-2006, he was labeled as something of a tweener when he failed to emerge in the big leagues after opportunities both years. He brought his 5:1 K:BB rate from the last two years in the minors and found himself on the mound last season pitching 195 innings striking out 183 batters against 63 walks. He's not young for someone entering their second full year in the bigs but at 28 he's a cautionary tale for giving up on promising arms too quickly.
The rotation options after the first three are all in the "We need someone to pitch today category" with the exception of Sean Marshall. I liked the Jon Lieber signing although there's questions as to how much he'll have left after a foot injury and age. Dempster and Marquis both seem like the same pitcher to me and not one you particularly want on your team. It's also possible that we could see Marquis relegated to the bullpen just a year after signing that 21M dollar deal that gave everyone quite a chuckle in these parts. The rotation should be solid at worst and probably quite good given the stuff and success of the front three. This probably isn't the place the Cubs will crumble although if it is going to be anywhere, it's still the pitching. . .
Bullpen:
Bobby Howry, Scott Eyre, Carlos Marmol, Kerry Wood, warm bodies
Rather it's the pitching out of the bullpen that's going to be their death. Hope springs eternal as I read articles of Kerry Wood possibly being the closer this year. I'm continually shocked at the conviction of Kerry Wood supporters that he'll get better and return to some kind of dominant form. The fact that his arm is still attached to his body is a moral victory if you ask me. The clock struck midnight and Scott Eyre turned into a lefthanded pumpkin last year. Say it with me now, "Multi-year contracts for middle relievers rarely work out." While he's still marginally effective against left-handed hitters, the skills are deteriorating rapidly and he's now the type of reliever you could pluck out of the minor leagues for free.
Howry and Marmol are both going to be the foundation for the bullpen this year. Howry seems to have an inside track on the closer's job and while he's nearing the twilight of his career at age 34, he's still effective enough to be a closer. Carlos Marmol may have single handedly saved the Cubs last year as the kid came in with stones and put out fires whenever called upon. He had a game leverage index of 1.14 last season meaning he was used in situations that were significantly more difficult than average. He ended 2007 having pitched nearly 70 innings with a 1.43 ERA and a FIP well under 3.00 -- if he can replicate production anywhere near that level, he'll have gone a long way to solidfying the bullpen in the Windy City.
Summary:
The Cubs feature one of the best lineups in the NL and by the end of the season they may prove to be the best. Imagine if they complete the Roberts trade they can bat Roberts, Fukudome, Lee, Ramirez, Soriano1 through 5. Add in Pie and Soto who could both be above average and it's easy to see them fielding a team with above average offensive production everywhere except for SS. The pitching is much more suspect than the hitting. If any one of Zambrano, Hill or Lilly wind up on the DL for a significant period of time the Cubs could struggle. The drop-off to their replacement pitcher is pretty sizable. I'm ambivalent on the detriment that the bullpen is going to cause to the Cubs. Relievers are a fungible commodity in large part and the Cubs showed last year they're willing to take a live arm (Marmol) and put him in a situation to succeed.
I don't like the Cubs. I never will but I think they're going to win the NL Central.
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I agree
here's a question I always ask
1. For their team not to succeed at all
or
2. For their team to succeed, get to the playoffs, and get slaughtered at some point, with multiple errors, baserunning gaffes, balls over Soriano's head, Zambrano explosions, etc.?
In a sick
Viva el Birdos and Viva el Bartman.
by The Gottfather on Feb 29, 2008 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
To quote myself...
"Gawd, Cubs fans are pathetic. Which is why I need them to win a couple games. I need the Cubs fans that I work and live with to have hope, so that hope can be dashed by the tramatic seemingly random event (ie bartman) that will leave them talking about how they are losers for years to come."
Yes the Cubs are the one thing on this earth that I can truly sayy I hate!
by BigJawnMize on Feb 29, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
2, definitely 2
Still, the Scrubs are the best team in the division. I think the Crew is more talented, but their defense (or lack thereof) and their manager are lethal, Achilles-heel-type flaws. It pains me to say this, but a repeat of last year (Brewers getting off to a lead, then crapping the bed while the Cubs get back into it) wouldn't shock me in the least.
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 29, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
I like a little variation.
That's not going to happen this year, of course...hmmm...how about:
3. They tie with the Cardinals...errr, well, if I have to try to be vaguely realistic, the Reds...at the end of the season, and go down in a towering ball of fire in the tiebreaker game.
What I really dislike is them winning the season series with the Cardinals. If we can't make the playoffs, please let us just beat the Cubs for no apparent reason.
Run Away Favorites?
I'm not saying I don't agree with what you're saying. I'm a Cub hater all the way, mostly because of their fans. And I'm also skeptical about the team that is going to run onto the field opening day, but let's have a little faith. It is the Cubs and it's been 99 years for a reason.
In 2004
It is likely that the Cubs will win a lot of games this year too. At least 85+ anyway. But there are plenty of other scenarios that aren't as likely but completely plausible, which is why it's fun to pay attention no matter how sophisticated the analysis.
Btw, Fukudome
Given Lee's home run "dropoff", his ability to drive the ball, and his OBP, he seems like the type of player TLR might slot into the #2 spot in the order.
Chicago writers don't bring that up much. Lou Piniella doesn't seem to want to discuss it. I think he thinks moving either Soriano to 4th or 5th spot or moving Lee to 2nd would be a slap to their ego that could disrupt their entire season.
Of course, if you move Lee into the 2 spot, Soriano sees even MORE fastballs.
If Fukodome just starts hitting the crap out of the ball, I'm curious to see where they put him in the lineup.
The-riot
Pie is still nice and young. He has good plate discipline and his power has seemed to be steadily developing with his age. He projects nicely in most every projection system. I think he will be a lot better than Corey Patterson (unfortunately).
Heh. Good plate discipline?
Theriot=Ryan
And how ironc they both have to beat out
True
I think a Theriot is a great fit for the Cubs, as all he needs to do is get on base some, play D, and make those hustle plays. I don't think in this day and age of more offensive SS, he is a great player but I think he is pretty good.
Lets see how getting exposed to a whole season treats him.
1908
by Handsome Jimmy on Feb 29, 2008 10:44 AM EST reply actions
They're approaching
by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 29, 2008 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
almost makes you feel sorry for them
It looks great on the shelf with, among others, a Cardinals 2006 World Series souvenir baseball.
Large Number of Fair Weather Cub Fans
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to sit by the guy with the hat that's falling apart because he's worn it every day for a decade and it now smells like rotten ass...but the bandwagon cubby love was out of control.
There are few certanties in this world, but one is that the Cubs will always find away to blow up. Also, how exciting is the prospect of a Wrigley Field name change? Hell, its as good an excuse for losing as some guy with his 1985 walk man I think.
Awww...
I would be pissed off for about 5 minutes Then I would be like who cares?
It won't be completely changed changed.
More Fair Weather Fans
I was at Illinois State that year.
When the Cubs got up 3-1 in that series, I predicted the Marlins would come back and win. I was dismissed as a bitter Cards fan, a sore loser, that I wasn't being realistic. Then Game 6 happened. I was in a meeting when I heard the Cubs were up 3-0 late in the game. People were out on the Quad celebrating already. After the meeting let up I wondered why everything was so quiet around campus. I walked into the campus coffee shop to discover the Marlins up 8-3 and everybody looked like somebody died. My response: YEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!! THE CURSE LIVES! That got me some nasty looks, but the few Sox fans around high-fived me.
After Game 7 I wanted to celebrate. Sure, I wanted to feel bad for my friends-at least 80% of whom are Cubs fans-but I JUST COULD NOT. It felt too sweet. It still does, 5 years later.
I'm like many of you-I can't root for that team-period. I'd even root for the Red Sox over the Cubs, such is my level of sheer hatred. I know it isn't healthy....but man does it feel good. Now if we could beat them in the season series this year....
by matt reeder on Feb 29, 2008 11:40 AM EST reply actions
I was there too
by Jtip20 on Feb 29, 2008 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Tony doesn't like you posting poems
Anyways, I guess if I honestly thought the Cubs could close the deal once in awhile, I'd care. Over the last 10 years, the Astros have been more of a rival with the Cardinals than the Cubs have.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 29, 2008 11:47 AM EST reply actions
ATTN: Anyone with SNY?
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 29, 2008 11:47 AM EST reply actions
I have the game going
by LTSmash on Feb 29, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
I'd love to get a copy of that, win or lose
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 29, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
You still have my email address, right, HL?
by LTSmash on Feb 29, 2008 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
Could Cards be spoilers for the Cubs?
But the Cardinals could be spoilers against the Cubs. 12 of the 15 games between the two teams come in July or later, when Carpenter might be healthy again (and supposedly Clement and/or Mulder will have already strengthened the rotation). Also, Rasmus should be up by then. So the Cardinals should be much stronger by the time they play those last 12 games.
The Cards will probably be too far behind to catch up to the Cubs and Brewers, but if they do well head to head with Chicago, it could knock the Cubs out of first place and give the Brewers the championship (or a surprising Reds team, maybe).
I like the way you think
My Take
Disdain - a word invented for my feelings toward The Small Bears and all related
Working in and around Chicagoland for the last 5 years, I have thoroughly enjoy watching their hopes thermometer rise and then fall, rise and then get smashed against the wall. A very beautiful thing to watch up close. And make no mistake about it, Cardinal envy/hate is very intense in Cub land - as well as the Cub-Sox rivalry.
I, too, fear that the Cubs may have found the missing pieces to go along with their obvious strengths in every phase of the game. Lou Piniella's steady hand, the semi-maturing of Big Z, the understated excellence of Ted Lilly and a host of young talents who could blossom - all are indicators of a good 08 for Cubs.
If I were an objective gambler, I'd be betting on them. Being who I am, I shall cheer for their meteoric rise and cataclysmic crash in bizarre and humorous ways.
How many times
Further, not too many people have noticed the canary in the coal mine with Zambrano; his strikeout-to-walk rate has dropped off a lot.
This is a team that won a weak division last year with 85 wins with a lot of things that went right for them; they spent an awful lot of money to pick up what they hope to be an OBP machine in Fukudome but is an unproven commodity in American baseball.
The games are not won on paper, they are won on the field. Piniella's teams in the second year of great success tend to regress (see the 1991 Reds and the 2002 Mariners, who failed to even make the postseason). There is reason to believe that despite what appears to be the team to beat on the stat sheet, the Cubs are beatable and a lot weaker than they appear.
I'd be a lot more optimistic if I were a Brewers fan in 2008 about my chances.
by LTSmash on Feb 29, 2008 12:36 PM EST reply actions
Growing Up
Lineups
Duncan LF
Pujols 1B
Glaus 3B
Juan Gon DH
Ludwick RF
Molina C
Miles 2B
Ryan SS
Mets:
Reyes
Clark
Wright
Delgado
Alou
Church
Castro
Pagan
Hernandez
Hate is a strong word!
I'm all for rivalries in sports. But hate is a strong word. We lost to The Tigers in 68. At that time the city of Detroit was in total turmoil. Sure I was upset the Cards lost that series. It wasn't until I was an adult did I hear how much healing that brought to Detroit. Much of the same can be said for the the city of Boston in 2004.
So would it be so bad if the Scrubs actually won one? It wouldn't be like we lost the series to them! Just one mans opinion. As the infamous Rodney King said"Why can't we all just get along."
sports as outlet for emotions
Come on guy
I believe most
by rockin redbird on Feb 29, 2008 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
You'll never see me say I hate a person
Yeah...
Cliff Notes
Hinkster
YAHTZEE!
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 29, 2008 1:22 PM EST reply actions
Juan Gone
i like
however, i don't enjoy watching well hit balls off wainer on said media player
Wainwright looks like poo
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 29, 2008 1:30 PM EST reply actions
Much better in the 2nd inning
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 29, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Not the team, but the idea
I don't hate the Cubs as a team.
I hate the ideas of the Cubs surrounding the team. I dislike any "cult of personalities" built around one aspect of a team...that's why I don't like the "Cardinal Nation" bullshit, or Hadley the Homer. Same with the bleacher bums, Wrigley field, and all those lame ass Cub bars in Wrigelyville.
As to the team itself, not my favorites, but they have some good ballplayers. I will watch a Cubs game on WGN from time to time...and when they lose, I don't feel bad. When the Cardinals lose, I feel bad. And when it's Cubs/Cards, it's fun to watch.
Is there ANY chance he can get cut
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 29, 2008 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Spring Training Game
Brian Barton
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 29, 2008 1:47 PM EST reply actions
Aaron Miles makes me think
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 29, 2008 2:12 PM EST reply actions
I sometimes feel
Wouldn't that make you hate
Though frankly (I live in a Chicago burb) I enjoy watching them on TV. I often miss their really bad games; for whatever reason, they seem to blow up in afternoon games.
I don't hate
by rockin redbird on Feb 29, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you, Cardinals fans
And the Emily Dickinson was a nice touch. Glad to see you bring out the big guns when writing about the Cubs. Cubs fans, of course, quote Kierkegaard -- the philosopher, not the utility infielder.
by 3744 n sheffield on Feb 29, 2008 3:30 PM EST reply actions
Haha
Can most Cubs fans even pronounce his name?
Uniformly, I've seen lots of Cubs fans drop....
by matt reeder on Feb 29, 2008 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Cubs Fans, Kierkegaard, and Baseball
Baseball and Philosphy book. It's all on Google book.
Didn't find it too insightful, but it is amusing.
While few Cub fans
by rockin redbird on Feb 29, 2008 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Cubbies
Nowadays, I have just developed sort of a disdainful indifference toward them. I think hating them gives them some sort of legitimacy that the don't deserve in the baseball world. I just don't feel like wasting the effort hating one of the worst franchises in all of professional sports.
Do Lakers fans hate the Clippers? Not really. Do Clippers fans hate the Lakers? Sure they do. They are jealous. I guess the Cubs are my Clippers and I am a Lakers fan. Why bother?
Growing up in Des Moines, IA
That said, I grew up in Des Moines, the home to the Cubs' AAA affiliate: the Iowa Cubs (the "I-Cubs" as we Iowans refer to them). My first professional baseball game was an I-Cubs game. This, coupled with WGN, and a relative distance from the hotbed of the Cards/Cubs rivaly, I believe caused me not to grow up with a deep-seated hatred for the Cubs. It was neat to see guys who came through Des Moines make it to Chicago. Heck, it still is. (I buy tickets to every Memphis Redbirds series to see up-and-coming and AAAA Cardinals.)
My dislike for the Astros runs very deep. I think being in college from 2000 through 2004, which allowed to watch nearly every Cardinals game, helped this hatred evolve. The Cubs were never much of a threat, but we were battling the 'Stros year in and year out. The Astros doing poorly or making stupid personnel moves still makes me happier than when the Cubs do such things.
That said, my dislike for the Cubs has grown in recent years. My bitter Cub fan friends send venomous, unprovoked emails to me attacking the Cardinals and it has lit a fire in me that is growing. Maybe it will grow into a greater dislike than I currently feel toward the Astros.
Well, you all make me feel like something is
I always root for the Cardinals to win. But if they don't, I don't really care if its the Cubs or any other club.
As far as your saying that Zambrano and Oswalt are the best pitchers in the NL Central with Carpenter being out, I think you forgot to add Mr. Aaron Harang of the Reds to that list. He is just as good as those two IMO.
I agree ... sort of.
And then take it to the pound to be euthanized.
by StanTheManFan on Feb 29, 2008 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
My 2 cents on the Cubs
2004 Red Sox Win Championship (Red Sox were the only team who could understand what the Cubs were going through, the didn't have to carry the burden of ineptitude alone)
2005 White Sox Win (Cross town rivals)
2006 Cards Win (Your most heated rivals)
2007 Red Sox again (Just to prove the first time was not a fluke)
2008 ??? (But the Baseball Gods obviously have a plan, and I'm sure 100 years has something to do with it)
2009 ??? Might be the Cubs year, they couldn't get any lower, and the Gods wouldn't have anything else to prove. (Unless they want to go for 200 years or the Cards Win again, I'm hoping for #2)
by DisplacedCardsFan on Feb 29, 2008 9:23 PM EST reply actions

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