Projected Lineup

by showmejoe on Feb 28, 2008 10:23 PM EST Comment 26 comments

I know we have done this already, but it is one of my favorite pastimes. I sat down and looked at our current roster and these are my favorite scenarios. All lineups assume that Rasmus makes the starting lineup out of spring training.

Line up 1-

Izturez
Rasmus
Pujols
Glaus
Ankiel
Duncan
Molina
Pitcher
Kennedy

Line up 2- assumes Ryan wins the SS job

Kennedy/Ryan
Rasmus
Pujols
Glaus
Ankiel
Duncan
Molina
Pitcher
Ryan/Kennedy

Line up 3- assumes we trade Duncan at the end of ST

Kennedy/Ryan
Rasmus
Pujols
Glaus
Ankiel
Ludwick
Molina
Pitcher
Ryan/Kennedy

I like the last one the best because it assumes we have traded Duncan for at least a #3 starting pitcher, preferably one from the Giants, Linsecum or Lowry.

Since we've already done this you can ignore or delete this post if you want.

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couple things

the cardinals didn't sign izturis to sit on the bench. he will play.

you'd have to look at a scenario where rasmus bats lead off.

unless he has an outrageous spring, kennedy should be kept far away from lead off.

you're dreaming if you think the giants are going to give up lowry or lincecum for duncan.

i think a more realistic lineup looks like this

izturis, ss
ankiel, cf
pujols, 1b
glaus, 3b
duncan, lf
ludwick/barton/whoever, rf
molina, c
pitcher
kennedy 2b

obviously this could change later in the year based on a number of things namely rasmus's status and kennedy's performance.

by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 28, 2008 10:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

run scoring

if izturis and ankiel hit 1-2 all year long we will score NO runs and pujols will drive in about 75...sad to say it will probably happen...

"Back in the day when I played, a pitcher had 3 pitches: a fastball, a curveball, a slider, a changeup and a good sinker pitch." - Mike Shannon

by nomar34 on Feb 28, 2008 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yup

cuz izturis won't get on on his own and ankiel will either strike out or hit a HR.

by stlcardinalsfang on Feb 28, 2008 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Trading Duncan

I know we can't get either of those guys with Duncan alone but I'd be willing to depart with a couple RP prospects maybe a SP prospect. I don't know what it would take, but I think Duncan's spot on our team is shrinking. We have too many OUTFIELDERS that can hit for LH power and actually play defense like an outfielder. Would Ludwick put up numbers that compare to Duncan's? I think so, and he would play far superior defense.

With the need to keep Barton on the roster, and TLR's love affair with an old, busted outfielder (Gonzalez) what options do we have for the surplus of OF's?

I'm looking for the next Bobby Bonilla?

by showmejoe on Feb 28, 2008 11:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

izturis

Granted Tony loves the vets, but I really do believe it's possible that with a horrible spring and/or 1st month of the season, he could play his way out of the starting line-up or off the team. Same goes for Kennedy. However, due to their contracts they'll get every opportunity in the world to LOSE the starting jobs. Whatever happened to those open competitions Tony loves so much? It even almost seems that Juan Gone will have to LOSE his spot as opposed to earning it.

"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 29, 2008 3:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bench player contract

1 yr/2.85 is about the going rate for a free agent bench player. I don't think his contract status means much in terms of playing time.

by RedbirdRay on Feb 29, 2008 8:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If your gonna put Rasmus in the line-up he

should bat leadoff.

How about this...

Rasmus
Kennedy
Pujols
Duncan
Glaus
Ankiel
Molina
Pitcher
Ryan

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Feb 28, 2008 10:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

i like this better...

but how about:

Rasmus
Duncan
Pujols
Glaus
Ankiel
Molina
Kennedy
Pitch
Izturis (rather be Ryan)

L,L,R,R,L,R,L,(R/L),S

that isnt ideal matchup wise but i think it will score more runs...but what do i know...

"Back in the day when I played, a pitcher had 3 pitches: a fastball, a curveball, a slider, a changeup and a good sinker pitch." - Mike Shannon

by nomar34 on Feb 28, 2008 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I like that lineup

Two high OBP in front of Albert, Ankiel in front of Yadi is great because it reduces the number of GDP Yadi will have.

by DiscoJer on Feb 29, 2008 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I much prefer

Duncan in the #2 spot and Ankiel batting 5. Duncan really flurished hitting in front of Pujols last season, and although he'll probably strike out his fair share, he'll draw alot more walks than ankiel would. depending on who is the 3rd outfielder, i'd almost rather ankiel bat 6th, assuming it's someone like ludwick batting 5th. Ankiel seems more like the prototypical #6 hitter to me - great power potential, but he's not going to get on base enough to warrant batting in front of other good hitters.

by ecaw1123 on Feb 29, 2008 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Duncan Hit Better Behind Pujols

In 170 AB's in the 4-6 holes, Duncan hit .264/.368/.494 (ops of 862), with 11 home runs. These numbers were deflated too b/c for some odd reason he didn't hit worth a crap in his 48 AB's as the five hitter. If you just look at his 4 and 6 hole numbers, he was significantly better there than in the 2 hole.

With all of that said, I think the Cardinals have enough power behind Pujols and so little on-base ability in front of him that hitting Duncan second still makes sense. He'll get enough fastballs there, plus he's demonstrated the required on-base skills to hit there.

My ideal lineup (while odd) looks like this: Ludwick, Duncan, Pujols, Glaus, Ankiel, Molina, Kennedy, Pitcher, Ryan. I could live with Ankiel and Duncan switching, but having that kind of on-base skill and pop in front of Pujols looks awfully good to me. Instead, I see this happening: Kennedy, Ankiel, Pujols, Glaus, Duncan, Juan-Gone, Molina, Pitcher, Izturis. Yuck.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 29, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

late season injury

41 of those 48 AB's in the 5 spot came after his hernia started acting up in early august. He went 16-96 over his last 110 PA's, with just 5 XBH, 41 K's and 14 BB's, and after it was obvious he was hurting TLR moved him down in the lineup. His last 11 starts were all at #5 in the lineup.

Overall, he was 7 for 41 hitting in the 5 spot in august and September vs 9 for 55 elsewhere. You really can't make anything at all out of that, except maybe that a herniated chris duncan is a poor hitter.

by SleepyCA on Feb 29, 2008 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't really like Rasmus as a leadoff man

If we don't have a better option then you have to go with the best option for OBP, AVG, BB, etc. If Izturiz can prove everyone wrong and regain any of his 04-early 05 form then let him lead off. I just think Rasmus is more the 2 or 3 hitter role. I would love to see Ryan out play either Izturiz or Kennedy, but with TLR as manager that probably won't happen because it would be an admission of being wrong.

I'm looking for the next Bobby Bonilla?

by showmejoe on Feb 28, 2008 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

sorry

Rasmus struggling to adapt will be no worse than Izturis' .330 obp in 2004. If Rasmus makes the team, he should be leading off.

by birdsonthebat on Feb 29, 2008 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yup.

That's the one - I'd put Rasmus in the 2 hole though, depending on what he and Kennedy look like.

I Dunc in the 4spot because he'll get some protection if Glaus is on, and some decent pitches if AP and Rasmus are on in front of him.
Ank, well, I don't think he should be in the top 3rd of the order...I think last year was the ol' "first time around the league success".

"The Food Channel: Porn for fat people"

by bukowski on Feb 29, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lineup

Rasmus
Ankiel
Pujols
Glaus
Duncan
Molina
Kennedy
Pitcher
Izturis

This is the correct lineup assuming Rasmus makes the team.

This entire exercise is kind of stupid though because La Russa never uses the same lineup twice in the same week.

Has everyone forgotten how La Russa uses matchups and mixes shit up every day. There is no SET lineup in Cardinal baseball.

"And that's a winner. A World Series winner for the Cardinals."

by Bird Watcher on Feb 29, 2008 12:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Except for

2004 and 2005 when Tony had a good, balanced, healthy lineup, he used nearly the same every day. Man, those were the days.

This year, I'd like to see:

Rasmus
Ankiel
Pujols
Duncan
Glaus
Molina
Second Baseman*
Pitcher
Ryan*

* I realize the 2bman will probably be Kennedy, but I am hoping he somehow contracted scurvy and will be on the DL all year and the Hoff takes his place.

* Izturis also has scurvy. These guys need to eat more limes.

Juan Gonzalez actually doesn't know the meaning of the word "retirement."

by Alxfritz on Feb 29, 2008 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

pretty close, but...

assuming all players in question play to their potential I'd like to see:

LF - Barton
CF - Rasmus
1B - Pujols
3B - Glaus
RF - Ankiel
C - Molina
2B - Miles/Hoff
P - Whoever
SS - Ryan

There's a lot of speed between the 9, 1, and 2 spots. Plus it creates a lot of RBI opps for Rasmus, especially hitting in front of Pujols. I'd absolutely love for Dunc to be packaged in a deal for one of the Giants guys. Perhaps you could include Ottavino or Garcia and Motte to land Lincecum. Sorry, but this team has no chance with Kennedy and Izturis both in the line-up. At least one of them needs to OFF the team.

"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 29, 2008 3:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

correction..

that should say "be off the team". I was not suggesting that they should go on a homicidal rampage. I've gotta start proof-reading.

"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 29, 2008 3:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ghost...

this is my "perfect world" lineup, too. However, I don't think Rasmus starts the year with STL...giving Duncan time to up his trade value (pretty crappy second half in 2007). Kennedy or Izturus if not both will surely start the year with a starting gig...if this is the regular lineup in June or July I will be giddy (especially if it means Pujols is still "healthy" enough to play). I definitely prefer Hoff to Miles.

10 roster moves/nonmoves I hope to see this year (lineup only)...
Kennedy dumped/cut
Iz2 become a solid utility player
Ryan have 100+ starts at short
Hoffpauer 80+ starts at 2nd
Barton 120+ starts between LF & CF
Duncan traded for starting pitching
Rasmus 80 - 100 starts in CF
Miles <250 AB's
Pujols starts 140+ games
Ankiel 145+ starts between RF & CF

Thanks for the highlight moments 15 and 27!!!

by cardzfanbub on Feb 29, 2008 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

just curious

when you say "correct" are you stating that is what should happen, or is that what you predict will happen?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 29, 2008 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what i mean is

This will be what tony mostly does. I would absolutely like to see Barton play more but like I said. There will be pujols at first, glaus at third, molina behind the plate and a big fat platoon going everywhere else

"And that's a winner. A World Series winner for the Cardinals."

by Bird Watcher on Mar 4, 2008 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ok my 2 cents

Rasmus will start the year in AAA, Glaus has much better numbers hitting 5th. I like Duncan between sir albert and glaus hit him fourth. If Jaun Gone makes the team he platoons with Duncan. Lead off is still a very iffy postion.

1.Izzy2
2.Ludwick
3.Pujols
4.Duncan/Gone
5.Glaus
6.Ankiel
7.Molina
8.pitcher
9.Kennedy

Barton is on the bench. Schu's big change this spring is to get on base and prove himself as a lead off hitter. If he can do this he starts in center and Ankiel plays right. Ludwick becomes the 4th outfielder and gets a lot of AB's.

It will be very intersting to see what happens. I have a lot of hope that this team will suprise everyone and be better than expected.

by nybirdfan on Feb 29, 2008 9:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I like the optimism

That Izturis, Kennedy, Ryan, etc. will perform well enough to hit at the top of the order, but I remain "from Missouri" on that.

Personally, I have little patience for speculation about trading Duncan as long as TLR is here, because I refuse to believe it will actually happen. Makes a lot of sense in the right deal, but I just don't want to be teased like that.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 29, 2008 9:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Trade Duncan for pitching

and start Rasmus in AAA.

vs Lefties

Barton
Ludwick
Pujols
JuanGon
Glaus
Molina
Ryan
Pitcher
Izturis

vs Righties

Schumaker
Ludwick/JuanGon
Pujols
Ankiel
Glaus
Molina
Kennedy
Pitcher
Izturis

"Your mom likes Albert Pujols" - Happy Joe

by fatbellyjefferson on Feb 29, 2008 10:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Face it, Rasmus is in AAA and Juan Gonzalez is in.

Opening Day 2008:

Ryan, 2B
Ankiel, CF
Pujols, 1B
Glaus, 3B
Duncan, LF
Gonzalez, RF
Yadi, C
Wainwright, P
Izturiz, SS

Rasmus starts in Memphis because, a)it keeps his eligibility for arbitration/free agency one more year out, b) the cards don't know what this season will look like, so they'll want to see how things pan out first with our "vets". Duncan will still be on this team, b/c a) i don't think other teams are as high on him as we are, and b) he is our backup 1B. Ankiel hits 2 because, a) TLR is in love with his athleticism and b) TLR is in love his his speed. Ryan I think will prevail over Kennedy (wishful thinking, I know) and Kennedy is dumped on someone when an injury happens (NY METS and L. Castillo).

This lineup is very powerful, but not much in terms of run production and small ball--to think how far we've come since Whitey. This also takes into account high RBI guys in the middle and a semblance of the R/L/R matchups Tony loves almost as much as his SP in the 8 hole.

"No regrets, that's my motto. That, and everyone wang chung tonight."

by cardsfansince1982 on Mar 4, 2008 11:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs