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Gibby

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blackhistory2008/columns/story?page=keri/080221

someone might want to help me with that hyper-link thing

excellent article on Bob Gibson and 1968

the Dal Maxvill story alone is worth the read

Bob was one of my childhood favorites.  He just seemed plain old great at the time.  Looking back, his numbers are hard to believe.  The pitchers were so great that year, MLB stepped in and altered the mound - and baseball. the hitters of that time seemed larger than life......Aaron, Mays, McCovey, Clemente...........yet, they were frequently bested by Gibson, Marichal, Drysdale and others

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Hyperlink
Just go to Wikipedia's entry for hyperlinks and halfway down is the format to hyperlink under "Example: To embed a link into a Page, blogpost, or comment, it may take this form:"
Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Feb 24, 2008 11:48 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

With all due respect
to the "experts" that say Clemens is the best right-handed pitcher in 40-50 years(before the PED allegations), he couldn't even hold Gibby's jock. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a Cards fan; he was the best righty I ever saw(Koufax being the LH). I remember that pitch he threw to Horton, too. It literally buckled Horton's knees.
"The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it."

by cardsrul on Feb 24, 2008 2:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Clemens historical greatness
Is in his ridiculous longevity.  You can't really argue that he ever had a true prime as he's just been flippin awesome for 20+ years.
Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Feb 24, 2008 6:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, btw...
go back and look at his game log. Five times, he went more than 9 innings(11 twice; 12 once), and only four times did he give up more than 3 runs. He had more complete games that season(28) than most pitchers have in their career. Tell me that's not domination.
"The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it."

by cardsrul on Feb 24, 2008 2:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Very Interesting Article
However, I disagree that that was the greatest season ever by a pitcher.  My choice is Pedro's 2000.  Pedro simply outperformed Gibby in most important categories:

ERA+: 291 vs. 258
K: 284 vs. 268
K/9: 11.78 for Pedro, 7.9 for Gibby
BB: 32(!)vs. 95

These are significant b/c Pedro faced better hitters, pitched roughly 1/2 of his games in Fenway,  threw a tigher, juicier ball, had a smaller zone...and yet he still K'ed more in fewer innings than Gibson did.  Now, Pedro loses in WHIP and opp. HR, but then again there were more homers hit in the late 90's/early 00's than in the late 60's.  

What nails it for me is that Pedro pitched in an environment that set pitchers up to fail, whereas Gibby pitched in one that was so extreme that the league decided to adjust the game to neutralize things a bit.  The fact that Pedro turned in the best 5 year run in pitching history in the middle of the biggest offensive bonanza ever is nothing short of astounding.  

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Feb 24, 2008 3:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It's hard to disagree
with your conclusion, but I don't think it is necessarily a given that Pedro was facing better hitters, especially when you compare strike out numbers.  The numbers may very well prove me wrong, but I don't think players in general struck out nearly so much in Gibby's era.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 24, 2008 5:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i want gibby to be better
so i looked it up.  And you're right, thank goodness; the AB/K for 1968 NL was 5.77, and AB/K for 2000 AL was 5.6.  (2000 NL was 5.11).  Lower number means more K's, obviously.

[I'm too lazy to figuring PA/K this time of night and have to get up arse-early, but that would obviously be a better stat to use.  Why B-R doesn't have a column for PA is beyond me.]

caveat that with the fact that the 1968 AL didn't have a DH - AL DH's in 2000 struck out every 5.02 AB's while NL pitchers in 1968 struck out every 2.57 Ab's.  They also didn't have lefty specialists or closers in 1968, although interestingly LHB struck out more often against LHP in '68 (4.99 AB/K LHB vs LHP in '00, 4.61 in '68), (4.84 AB/K in '00 9th inning vs 6.2 in '68).

by SleepyCA on Feb 25, 2008 2:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

MISTER Gibson...
was the most competitive athlete I've ever seen, bar none!

I remember going to a game in the '70s with my Dad and a buddy of his from work... Dad had been a catcher in his high-school days, while his buddy had been a pitcher; so they busted each other's chops constantly, while I sat there and kept my mouth shut (laughing on the inside all the while.)

Gibby didn't have his best "stuff" that particular night... the fastball didn't have it's usual crackle, and the slider tended to be in the dirt. But #45 pitched a complete game, stranding a boatload of baserunners, and getting the win.

My Dad's buddy turned to me after the game and said, "Son, that was pitching... Gibby didn't have anything on the ball tonight except his fingers, and he still won!" Dad agreed... great memories!

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Feb 26, 2008 10:50 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Gibson
I always love the McCarver stories about Timmy making trips to the mound and being told, usually in profane terms, to get back to his position.  Anyone that can get McCarver to be quiet has my respect on that basis alone.

I also liked the note in the article that Gibson declined to be interviewed........so like him....most guys his age would jump at a headline...but not Bob

He worked fast, he used chin music on a regular basis, he didn't believe in wasting pitches, he disdained small talk and he did not like fraternizing with the opposition.  He walked the walk.  

I would say the days he pitched were some of the easist days that manager Red Schoendienst ever worked.

by Hinkster on Feb 26, 2008 11:14 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

+1
on getting McCarver to be quiet.  That's my dad's favorite baseball anecdote.
"Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." --Churchill

by lordsummer on Feb 26, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, that really brings back memories
of laying in bed at night or sitting in the car somewhere (since I couldn't pick up KMOX in the house) and listening to Jack and Harry describe Gibby mowin' 'em down.  I can still vividly recall exactly where I was when he got # 3000.

by ArkansasTravs on Feb 26, 2008 3:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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