Colon signs with Red Sox, Who do we get?

by Molina4MVP on Feb 24, 2008 8:17 PM EST

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3262747

Since Bartolo signed a Minor League deal with the Red Sox, that leaves very few options for the Cardinals to choose from if we are to get another Starting Pitcher before the start of the season. Personally, I like Jeff Weaver because we know he will eat innings (and I am an eternal optimist that believes he could recapture some late '06 magic), as opposed to a pitcher coming off an injury.

Other than him, pitchers that would accept a one-year deal don't seem like they would really be worth it, although we probably need someone to throw some innings before Clement gets back.

Would it be worth it to offer Kyle Lohse a $8-10mil/One year contract to see if he bites?

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Now I heard it all

"Eight to ten million and see if he bites." Look up that bum's record again, please.

by ridgesee on Feb 24, 2008 8:47 PM EST reply actions

i agree...

I'm not saying he's really worth it, but considering he wanted a 4 year 50mil or whatever, it would be questionable as to whether or not he would take it. He does have the history of someone that can throw around 200 innings. how many starters do we have that will do that?

he would also probably become our 2nd best starter.

by Molina4MVP on Feb 24, 2008 9:31 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah, but

remember: Spring training has already started, he's desperate to play. I see him much more likely to sign a deal around $4 million. He's nothing spectacular, and his primary focus this year is going to be to prove that he deserves that multi-year deal that he wasn't able to get this time around. $8-10 mil would be far too generous.

I agree, I'd like to see us sign him, but only if it's an extreme bargain of a price.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Feb 25, 2008 2:34 AM EST up reply actions

Love this part of the article

Under the terms of the agreement, Colon is not guaranteed any money, a baseball source told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney. If he pitches in the major leagues, it will be for a low baseball salary with performance bonuses.

Glad we didn't get on that. Wouldn't want to take on a 1 month trial of a reclamation project for a guy that would cost NOTHING.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Feb 24, 2008 9:03 PM EST reply actions

By all reports the Cardinals

were looking in on Colon. What's to say he didn't just choose the Sox?

by azruavatar on Feb 24, 2008 9:11 PM EST up reply actions

Just look at the Cardinals track record...

Over the past two years - Mulder, Carpenter, Rolen...If I were a free agent rehabilitating or coming back from an injury, there's no way I'd choose the Cardinals. Personally, I'm surprised Clement agreed to come.

by El Schweenador on Feb 25, 2008 12:43 PM EST up reply actions

Guys, you want no part of Colon.

He is pitching with a torn rotator cuff--he never got it repaired. He's old, he's fat, and he hasn't pitched well in 2 seasons. The Red Sox can have him, because they don't really need him. If some kind of miracle happens for Colon, I'll congratulate him and the Sox. They'll have an extra trade chip if they need it. No club that really needs a pitcher to actually PITCH for them should have any interest in Colon, even for free.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Feb 24, 2008 9:17 PM EST reply actions

exactly

colon is in worse shape than clement. he would be completely inadequate as an insurance policy.

by dmb60614 on Feb 24, 2008 10:48 PM EST up reply actions

It's not about insurance

It's about throwing another risk into the mix. Maybe you missed what they said, but he's literally zero risk. Either he's worthless and you cut him loose or he's somewhere between serviceable and excellent and you let him eat some innings and pay him nothing.

Cards missed big on this one. Could've thrown him some incentives that he probably wouldn't reach.

by mojowo11 on Feb 25, 2008 12:31 AM EST up reply actions

if he starts one game

and we lose that game, he's cost us something a lot more valuable than money- he's cost us the opportunity to evaluate a young player.

He's also cost us a potential win, which could be considered to have a monetary value. One more start from Mark Mulder might have cost us the 2006 post season...

by SleepyCA on Feb 25, 2008 2:15 AM EST up reply actions

Oy

Now you're talking about misuse. If he's useful, you use him. If he's not, you don't use him and you evaluate that young player. Assuming what you said happens -- that is, he struggles (everyone loses a game over the course of the season) -- that's not a case of this being a bad deal to make, it's a case of the team keeping him on when they shouldn't.

Either way, you're either paying him dirt or you're letting him go. There is literally nothing to be lost in such an offer. Nothing.

by mojowo11 on Feb 25, 2008 3:11 AM EST up reply actions

i disagree

the cards need insurance against rehab problems with clement, mulder and carp. there is no point in brining in anyone who cant be counted on for innings. throwing another risk into the mix does not fill any team needs.

there certainly are hidden costs to the signing. instead of evaluating some other pitcher who might actually have a chance of contributing, you are giving spring training appearances to sidney ponson part 2. serviceable? he had an ERA of over 5 in 2006 and over 6 in 2007, neither one of them complete seasons. he's been anything but serviceable the last two years. i could care less what he has done in years prior because he isnt the same pitcher. he can't rear back and throw the heat any more. his success depends on his ability to transform into a finesse pitcher. even a rosy projection for colon would put him at brad thompson/todd wellemeyer status. so what does he add to the team? IMO, nothing it doesn't already have. the 'lets throw crap against the wall and see what sticks' attitude needs to stop.

and when you are talking about TLR, you HAVE to consider misuse as a risk.

by dmb60614 on Feb 25, 2008 2:26 PM EST up reply actions

Boca Grande

The Boston Globe has a good recap of the thought process underlying the Colon signing at
http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2008/02/25/a_minor_large_expectation/

"So what if the only thing Bartolo Colon refuses to stick a fork into is himself?"

by madridbend on Feb 25, 2008 3:02 PM EST up reply actions

According to MLB.com

Front office rejected TLR's idea of bringing in Bonds this year.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Feb 24, 2008 10:11 PM EST reply actions

Just thinking about

Bonds hitting 2nd. Oh well.

Why would a guy that gets on base half the time hitting in front of Pujols help us score runs?

by Harknights on Feb 25, 2008 1:21 AM EST up reply actions

Just saw that as well..

Here's the link (from Baseball Think Factory)
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080224&content_id=2387513&vkey=spt2008news&fex t=.jsp&c_id=mlb
On the same day that a dude over at Baseball Prospectus wrote an article entitled "Sign Barry Bonds!"
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7174
Would have been fun to watch.
Boomer.

by glamboomer on Feb 25, 2008 1:23 AM EST up reply actions

Why do you think Weaver would eat innings?

Other than what Bernie Miklasz says?

Last year he averaged 5 1/2 or so innings per start (5.4), almost exactly what Thompson did (and not much more than Reyes). The year before he managed 5.5 innings per start.

Yeah, earlier in his career he was an innings eater. But that was in his prime.

by DiscoJer on Feb 24, 2008 11:08 PM EST reply actions

Because I am in idiot?

If you take his first few starts out of his stats last year (before he was "injured") he averaged around 6 IP per start. Add to that the fact that he won't be pitching in the American League (in fact, the NL Central...) and maybe hope for his late '06 reg. season + playoffs under duncan, I feel that he will get more innings.

I was saying he [Weaver] could get innings more than some of the other free agent pitchers available because some of them are coming off Injury and he isn't.

However, Lohse could be our best bet at being a pure "innings eater", but Weaver could be a much cheaper option for almost as good of results.

by Molina4MVP on Feb 24, 2008 11:58 PM EST up reply actions

eating innings vs. effectively eating innings

weaver didnt go long into the games mostly because he was ineffective. however, he has the physical ability to eat innings (as in taking one for the team), something that might be useful given the uncertain status of clement, mulder, and carp. if duncan can get him into a groove, then he might even go back to effectively eat innings. given his recent past, you wouldnt want to guarantee weaver what other proven innings eaters are getting, but i think he is well worth the gamble of a minor league contract or whatever pittance he ends up agreeing to.

by dmb60614 on Feb 25, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions

These are all absolutely horrible options

Let's face it...all these guys suck. Throw in the fact that Clement, Mulder, and Carpenter are all injured and the fact that Thompson, Wellemeyer, and Reyes will probably all suck too, the only thing that would make this staff considerably better would be a trade (or a break out year for Reyes). Not sure who you trade and not sure who you could get, but that's really all there is to it. If a trade did happen, I would suspect it would be a pitcher that none of us even thought of (kinda like when we landed Mulder). Here's hoping Mo can make his mark as a big league GM and not just a penny-pinching puppet for the ownership.

"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Feb 25, 2008 5:20 AM EST reply actions

He'll eat something, at least

Who's ready for the Roscoe "Fatty" Wells era?

If they want to sign someone who will be better than the Wellemeyer/WonderBrad/Hawksworth morass the only real option is Kyle Lohse, although my 2006 love would allow me to not be objective about a Weaver NRI.

by DanUpBaby on Feb 25, 2008 3:20 PM EST reply actions