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Santana's deal--$137.5M, 6 years

Here's the link:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-02-01-mets-santana_N.htm

Obviously, even if the Cards had the prospects to land him, the team never would have coughed up this kinda coin over 6 years.  This sort of deal is out of our league for anyone not named Pujols.  How will other big market teams like the Cubs and Dodgers respond?  I think they'll both push up payroll.

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He took less money
for the extra year.  The Union can't be happy about that.  Clemens set the bar at $28 M/year last year.  The Union wanted probably around $25 M from Santana.  He settled when he clearly had the hammer.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Feb 2, 2008 1:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

clemens set the bar
at $28M for ONE year.  If he had asked for 2 or 3 years he'd never have been guaranteed that kind of money, let alone 7.  The bar to compare santana's contract to was 7Y/126M, set by Zito, and Santana's 6Y/137.5M guaranteed (7Y/150M potential) demolished that.

Still, we could have signed him if we had been willing to make the trade.  We only have $78M spent in '09 and 43M spent in '10, so there is plenty of flexibility in the out-years; we might have had to pay more at the end to make up for not being able to give him $20M next year, but we could have done it.

by SleepyCA on Feb 2, 2008 7:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would pay AT LEAST twice as much
for Santana as Barry Zito
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 3, 2008 1:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This is bullshit
no player should make the kind of money these guys are making.  This is a game and entertainment.  No baseball player is worth the kind of money a lot of these guys are making.  If your good your good but my god it's no wonder I can't afford to take a family of four to a ballgame.  I love what I do but I work for the state and don't make as much in a year as these guys are making for a game I play for free.  It's high time they owners stand up and put a cap on the league.  If this happens they WILL drop ticket prices, concessions, and souviners.  No one deserves to make tens of millions of dollars and send the bill to the fans that really love the game.  We are the fools who keep letting them spend this kind of money.  I agree everyone deserves to make a living but when does it end.

by DJ4508 on Feb 2, 2008 1:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

well
It may seem crazy, but it's dictated by the market.  If someone is willing to pay you insane amounts of money then you are WORTH insane amounts of money.
Now the story of a wealthy family who lost everything, and the one son who had no choice but to keep them all together...it's Arrested Development.

by Bowen on Feb 2, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Prices won't drop
Even if a salary cap was initiated, prices at the game wouldn't go down.  The owners would still try to squeze every last dime they could out of the fans.  This isn't a case of benevolent owners being taken by greedy players.  Everyone is trying to get as much as they can, and it ultimatly is paid for by the fans.

by Stanfan6 on Feb 2, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

already working
the Yankees said they couldn't afford him.  If that's not the sign of the market dictating a correction in salaries I don't know what is.  It really makes me mad that the Union is trying to force players to jack up the price.  Let the players sign where they want.  There's more to a compensation package than the dollars.

It appears that teams are finally realizing that terrible contracts (Kevin Brown, Mike Hampton, Barry Zito...) aren't the ones by which the market should be set.  Those are the outliers and foolish/desperate GMs are signing them.  Thankfully, Kyle Loshe has still not signed this offseason for his 4/40 and hopefully, he won't get it.  Otherwise, my theory would get blown to bits.

by birdsonthebat on Feb 2, 2008 4:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Collusion
There are some grumblings going around that ownership could be involved in collusion.  There are 150 players who filed for FA this past season that are still unemployed.  Ownership, who is already making record profits, could be looking to widen their profit margin by driving down player costs.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Feb 2, 2008 5:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that would be interesting
although I think it'd be near impossible to prove collusion unless the owners sent each other emails or something.  

I think that a market correction or collusion are the two logical answers.  Either everyone finally realized that the veterans simply aren't worth eight figures for multi-years (which would naturally make the players angry) or the owners don't want to pay it so nobody does. I'd say it's the former.  Some else already mentioned how the Cards are finding comparable talent for significantly cheaper (Looper for Suppan, Pineiro for Morris, etc).  Couple that with a league wide shift to young/cheap talent, and veterans just aren't getting their money.  

Collusion is a definite possibility, but until I see the evidence, I'll stick with market correction theory.

by birdsonthebat on Feb 2, 2008 8:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well
it isn't like they haven't been caught colluding before, is it?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 3, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong
They couldn't afford him in terms of prospects AND money.  
Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Feb 2, 2008 5:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you're right
but I think the point survives the incomplete reasoning.

by birdsonthebat on Feb 2, 2008 8:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's totally irrelevant, it's greed in the end
and we end up paying the price.  There are good people in baseball and I do dearly love the game, and the people on this site.  What gets my goat is general principle.  It's not the professionals that make the game but the game itself.  I enjoy watching high school games as much as the big boys.  They may not be as good and you may not see the 500 foot long ball but they play with heart and that's more important than playing for a paycheck.

by DJ4508 on Feb 2, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Then
go watch high school players.  

Players are paid according to what owners are willing to pay, and that's basically set by the owner's ability to turn a profit.  Your worth in the market is whatever you can get.  Arguing otherwise is just ignoring the way the world works.  This isn't a fairy tale; it's a business.  

If you have that much of a problem with it, find something else to follow.  

"An informed citizenry is the enemy of the despot, the zealot, and the sports columnist."

by the red baron on Feb 3, 2008 8:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

reworded
no [actor] should make the kind of money these guys are making.  This is [...] entertainment.  No [actor] is worth the kind of money a lot of these guys are making.  If your good your good but my god it's no wonder I can't afford to take a family of four to a [movie].  I love what I do but I work for the state and don't make as much in a year as these guys are making for a [movie].  It's high time the [producers] put a cap on [what they pay].  If this happens they WILL drop ticket prices, concessions, and souviners.  No one deserves to make tens of millions of dollars and send the bill to the fans that really love the [movies].  We are the fools who keep letting them spend this kind of money.  I agree everyone deserves to make a living but when does it end.
Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Feb 2, 2008 5:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

feel free to insert
rock or pop star or corporate CEO in there as well.  Well, I wouldn't be a corporate CEO but you get my meaning.

Why is it no one ever complains how much money Matt Damon got for the last Bourne movie?  or how much Angelina Jolie gets for being in a movie?

by chuckb on Feb 2, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've got a theory....
It doesn't cost you $150 to take a family of four to see a movie...

Just a guess.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Feb 2, 2008 6:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

apples and oranges...
... film actors are on film, not live. so millions can watch them at once at a relatively low price, just like we can watch baseball games on TV for a relatively low price. the performance can be replicated at nearly no marginal cost, so the prices are lower. the same isn't true of live events, comparing live baseball to pre-recorded films is the wrong comparison.

try taking a family of four to a Broadway show for $150 bucks. or, hell, try taking a family of four to a show at the Fox in St. Louis with a bunch of no-name actors in it. you can't do it. you can't even get a single Rolling Stones ticket for $150, and they are playing in stadia/arenas.

there's no injustice here. nobody owes anybody the right to see games for cheap. if you don't want to pay to see an MLB game in person, then go to high school/college/Frontier League games for cheap or nothing. or watch the games on television. if you want to see the premier league in the world, then be prepared to pay premium prices.

actually, if anything, tickets for major entertainment events are under-priced, not over-priced. if you don't believe me, then ask yourself why there are so many sell-outs. if the owners were profit-maximizers, then sell-outs would not be nearly as common as they are, because customers would be willing to pay significantly more at the margins than they are now (i'm over-simplifying, but the point remains the same).

economists are often puzzled by the fact that concerts/plays/sporting events are all generally under-priced.

by kindred on Feb 3, 2008 4:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow...
Slow down.

I never said anything about not wanting to pay to go to a baseball game.  In fact, I go to about 15 a year.

I was answering the question above comparing movie stars to athletes.

I don't have a problem with anyone being paid what they are paid.  If someone is willing to pay it, you are worth it.  Pure and simple.

"You're either rebuilding for something special, or you're on the verge of something special. To be in between is foolish." Billy Beane

by bobbyballgame1 on Feb 4, 2008 12:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree.....
I partially agree with both sides of this argument, however, there is one statement that keeps getting thrown around that really bothers me...you are worth whatever someone pays you?

That statement is completely false. How can worth be determined simply monetarily(sp?)? So teachers, police officers, firefighters, etc., are worth that much less than a professional athlete, actors, or Oprah Winfrey!? Simply because they are paid only 30-40k/year? Your worth is determined by what you provide to society. The fore mentioned occupations have a direct effect on our everyday lives. An athlete provides entertainment and according to that statement, AROD is appox. one thousand times more valuable than a teacher.

The fact is, athletes are overpaid, is it going to change, no way. The owners aren't going to lower prices as long as people are paying them, the same for the players. It is a business. So I agree, with the statement, "if you don't like it, follow something else." However, it doesn't mean they are worth it.
(bobby I am replying to your post, but I realize that you are not the only one that has said it, so nothing personal)

"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Feb 5, 2008 11:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Once again,
if you're going to include Oprah, you need to include the likes of Larry Flynt and Hugh Hefner and  whatnot.  She is much closer to being a producer/CEO/owner than she is to being paid talent--she is super rich because she owns her company, much moreso than it is because she is on-air paid talent.

by Valatan on Feb 5, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oprah.....
my inclusion of Oprah was simply because a poster in this thread used her name.

I completely agree that she is not really comparable to a professional athlete. Oprah signs her own paychecks, so to speak.

"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Feb 5, 2008 3:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Whoa, whoa, whoa.
I assume you're talking largely about me, so allow me to respond.  

At no point did I say that you are worth whatever someone pays you.  That is not a statement you will ever hear me make.  Personal worth should not be determined solely by how much money a person makes.  

What I said is you're worth whatever you can get.  A person's market value, for whatever skill they can bring to the table, is determined by the market for that skill or talent.  A player who makes $10 million dollars a year's services are worth $10 million dollars a year, because someone was willing to pay it.  Basic free market capitalism.  

Just because someone isn't willing to pay a school teacher millions of dollars a year has no bearing on what kind of a human being they are.  However, since no one is willing to pay them those millions, their skills are not as valuable as those of a ballplayer, ergo, their market value is less.  Whatever someone is willing to pay you do whatever it is you do is how much your services are worth.  If people decide you aren't producing at a rate commensurate with the pay scale, then the worth of your services goes down, because you cannot receive the same price for them.  

Very simple, supply and demand economics.  It has nothing to do with what kind of a human being someone is.  Not that complicated.  

"An informed citizenry is the enemy of the despot, the zealot, and the sports columnist."

by the red baron on Feb 6, 2008 9:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why do you assume...
I am talking largely to you, if you didn't make the comment I mentioned?
Not that complicated.
"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Feb 6, 2008 9:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You referenced
the comments,

"follow something else", and

"your worth is whatever someone pays you",

both of which appeared in one of my posts above.  I assumed you were talking about me because both of the statements you referred to were contained in something I wrote.  Seems a pretty fair assumption to me.  

"An informed citizenry is the enemy of the despot, the zealot, and the sports columnist."

by the red baron on Feb 6, 2008 10:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

also,
when I said, "not that complicated" in my previous post, I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence in any way, or be nasty.  I meant that my comments were not supposed to be as deep or complex as referring to someone's overall worth.  It was poorly worded, however, and it looked as if I was trying to be a dick.  I apologise.  
"An informed citizenry is the enemy of the despot, the zealot, and the sports columnist."

by the red baron on Feb 6, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Accepted...
and returned. Tone is often hard to interpret on a blog.
"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Feb 6, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Retort...
... if you want to get into subjective, normative analysis, then fine: a baseball isn't "worth" any more that you -- or anyone else -- thinks he is worth. he is, however, obviously "worth" his salary to his employer, however, and you're opinion has no weight in overruling his employer's.

"social worth"? seriously? well, how about this. there are only several hundred people in the world, out of 6 billion, who are capable of playing in the Major Leagues. of those few hundred, there are only a handful who are capable of commanding truly large salaries (the A-Rods and Santanas).

there are millions of school teachers in the world. in fact, teaching children is something that almost anyone can do, so long as they have something approaching average intelligence. in fact, if the student is capable enough, he will probably teach himself much more through self-study than a typical teacher would, at least when he gets past the very first years of his education (this is certainly true of me; i was "home-schooled," which means that i taught myself, until college, and i am currently pursuing a Ph.D. i learned much more on my own than most of school-attending friends ever got from their teachers, and many of them attended expensive private/prep schools).

that is not to disparage teachers: they are performing a service. but even the best teachers can only provide that service to a handful of people at a time. baseball players can provide their services to millions of people simultaneously, regardless of age or school district.

so baseball players "deserve" to be rewarded much more than teachers, since exponentially more people buy their services than do from a single, individual teacher.

now, in the aggregate, we spend much, much more on teachers than on baseball players. in 2003, public school teachers alone (K-12) made ~ $140bn. that represented about 1/3 of total public school funding. that number has surely gone up since then. in 2007, even after all the "salary inflation" we keep hearing about, MLB player salaries were $2.4bn.

but the real truth is this: what someone is "worth" -- their value -- can be measured by the market. in fact, that is the only way for such valuations to be made independently. otherwise, we're all just spouting individual opinions. in one sense, of course, we are all equally valuable. but in another real sense, we're not. my wife is "worth" much more to me than she is to you. Johan Santana is "worth" much more to the Mets than he is to the Cardinals.

and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

by kindred on Feb 6, 2008 5:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

excuse all the typos...
... i wrote that too fast.

by kindred on Feb 6, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've stayed away
from this subject because both sides are making good points but I can't let this pass. There is no real comparison between teachers and any pro athlete and I think you just belittled teachers everywhere.

"in fact, teaching children is something that almost anyone can do, so long as they have something approaching average intelligence."

It takes a special person to put up with what teachers do (low pay, oversized classes) to do the vital service of, in many cases, raising the youth of this country. Many could get mutch better paying jobs but make the sacrifice to help our collective society. I'm not saying all of them are the salt of the earth, there are some bad ones, but for the most part it's good people trying to do their best with limited resources.

I'm glad you were blessed with IQ to teach yourself but that's not the norm. Correct me if I'm wrong but I bet you had some great parents that taught you or a private tutor, unless you graded your own tests.

In case your wondering why this touched a nerve with me, my parents were both public school teachers with masters degrees.They both worked part time jobs in the evenings to have the money to raise three children. I saw and felt the sacrice first hand but it was worth it every time in my home town I would run into one of their former students and they would tell me how mutch one of my parents helped them, they always want to know how their doing and to tell them hello.

BTW the lowest paying school district in the state of Illinois when I was growing up wasn't in Chicago, It was East St. Louis.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Feb 7, 2008 9:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i wasn't picking on anyone specifically...
... and certainly not your parents in particular. i'm sorry if you took it seriously.

but there are 3.2 million members of the N.E.A., and that doesn't include private school teachers, or teachers past 12th grade. 3.2 million people is a lot of people.

there are 1,200 MLB players, including everybody on a team's 40-man roster. it is simply much, much harder to become a MLB player than it is to become a teacher, since the skill set required is so much greater. so MLB players are "worth" more.

now, teachers make more than Frontier League players and Legion players. those guys are good ballplayers, but are generally nowhere near as good as the MLB players, and they make little or nothing.

you may compare teachers to those guys, if you like, and teachers will come out ahead. but there is simply no comparison between the required skills for MLB players and teachers.

by kindred on Feb 7, 2008 5:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

don't forget
Oprah and her ilk.  Last I heard she made $150mil per year and that was a few years ago.  Every time somebody challenges what a utility infielder makes that is my defense.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Feb 3, 2008 12:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oprah's not comparable
She's syndicated and owns her production company.  That would be like the situation if Steinbrenner and A-Rod were the same person.

If the money's gong to get distributed between the players and the owners, I'd just as soon see more of it go to the players than the owners--the players, after all, are the ones you're going to see.

I just wish more cities had followed the Green Bay model while the teams were still relatively cheap in terms of overall purchase price.

by Valatan on Feb 3, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He came to us with no credentials.
The Germans never knew the location of our headquarters, until he arrived, and we've been infiltrated by a traitor.

How do we know Steinbrenner is not A-Rod?

by liam on Feb 4, 2008 2:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Too nice to owners
You seem to think the owners are these beneficent people who are being put in a bad situation by the players union.

Let's say everyone takes 1/10th of what they currently make, with a league minimum going to $100,000 instead of the current $400,000 or so.

So A-Rod makes 2.75M a year instead of 27.5M, Pujols makes about 1.4M or so.  Now the owners are put in a situation where, if they could afford those contracts, obviously they're making HUGE amounts of money now.  Do you think owners are going to drop those prime seats from $50 to even $20-30?  The owners got to where they are because they're businessmen.  Businessmen don't usually have the thought of "Well, maybe I give away money from my pocket in order to make things more affordable for the consumer."  The only way ticket prices go down is if demand for tickets goes down.

If the economic system gets so messed up that the demand for tickets can't keep up with the rising costs, then like the NHL, the system will crumble and they'll reestablish the economic system in a more viable way.  For now though, this system IS viable, and as long as people like us are willing to pay for tickets (and so far, while I think the system sucks, I bought party room tickets for a game this year), then the prices will continue to inflate more and more.

by mtalken on Feb 3, 2008 11:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The only way ticket prices go down is if demand..
Or if Congress uses a threat of removing the anti-trust exemption as a means of forcing a price control structure into the game.  Baseball is not a free market, after all.

by Valatan on Feb 3, 2008 3:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

IMO, the anti-trust exemption isn't very relevant
I can't imagine it would ever hold up in a court.  And I have to believe MLB thinks the same.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Feb 4, 2008 1:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

juvenile comment
Fans are willing to dish out alot of cash for their
beloved entertainment.  The players have wisely bargained their way into a portion of this money. They are entitled.

You also have the right to go out and make as much cash as you can.  If you've done it legally and you give the correct portion to uncle same, no one has the right to set limits that or reach into your pocket.

Not really sure what you're proposing by complaining about Santana's contract, but it wreaks of childish jealousy.

I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.

by _pistol_ on Feb 3, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

At least they are paid on a performance basis...
Santana has been the most dominant pitcher in the majors for four years running.  In terms of his contract, economically it isn't all that different from the one that Pedro Martinez signed when he went to Boston.  Yes the money is twice what that deal was, but your league average pitcher is worth about twice as much now as well.  The Mets are the clear front-runner in the National League now and will reap huge benefits from this signing in terms of their new stadium opening, the new TV network they started last year, and so on.  If he leads them to the NLCS or World Series in the first couple of years he'll easily be worth what they're paying him.

Ticket prices will go up, forever, just like the price of any other market driven product will always go up.  Only products that receive a large government subsidies hold stable prices for a long period of time (food, oil, natural gas).  Why hasn't Jeffrey Loria dropped his ticket prices?  Nobody shows up to watch that team play anyway, his payroll is next to nothing, and yet his ticket prices remain stable.  Kansas City Royals tickets have gone up in the past 10 years, despite having one of the lowest payrolls in the league over that span.  To say that flattening the salary structure will drive ticket prices down is ridiculous.  Look at all the other major sports with salary cap restrictions -- NBA and NFL tickets are twice as expensive as they were in the 1980's -- very similar to baseball.  

You want to talk about people not earning their keep?  Then lets talk about CEO pay.  At this point, to fire a CEO you have to pay them $40 million in "golden parachute" buyout funds just to GET RID OF THEM!!!  The three largest brokerage firms on Wall Street just gave out bonuses to their executives numbering in the millions of dollars -- while the firms themselves were down nearly $12 billion total in the last year!  Talk about a great incentive: "No matter how well you do we'll reward you with millions of dollars."  Not to mention that most of these guys went to private schools and Ivy League colleges, so they all came from old money to start with, and are now making millions of dollars without proving they are truly worth any more than the lowly hourly worker on the house floor of their company.  The market hasn't driven up their prices -- it's the obsession with lavishing high-profile executives with large money to draw investment that drives these companies to offer higher and higher packages.  It would be cheaper and more effective for them to promote someone from within most of the time.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Feb 4, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that's not strictly true...
... i've done research on the correlation between CEO performance and their pay, and there is a pretty strong correlation there. you can always point out one or two examples that go against the rule -- last year Bob Nardelli was everyone's favorite example -- but the rule is that CEOs are generally paid fairly appropriately for the value they add to their companies. in fact, if anything, the evidence tends to show that CEOs, as a group, are probably under-paid based on their value-added. it's difficult to measure marginal productivities when it comes to services like that, but there is a fairly broad consensus among economists that CEOs are not over-paid, and are possibly under-paid.

oddly enough, my belief is that they are paid so much for much the same reason that athletes are: there aren't many guys who can successfully lead huge corporations, and the differences in ability between the best and next-best candidate might be relatively small, but those small differences can make a large difference at the profit margin.

by kindred on Feb 6, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bottom Line
The contract is ridiculous. It baffles me that he turned down a 5/100 mil offer from Minnesota. How anyone could actually need that extra 4 million or so is really suprising to me. I would be happy with 1 mil, let alone 23.
Gotta love this youth movement! Aaron Miles and Josh Phelps are the future of this team!

by Ibeatanorexia06 on Feb 2, 2008 7:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

really?
$4mn/year (not including the extra guaranteed year plus option) represents a 20% increase over the Twins offer. are you trying to tell me that you wouldn't switch jobs if another employer offered you a 20% raise? especially if you wanted to move from Minneapolis to the East Coast anyway, and you wanted to work in a different league?

it's not $4mn. it's 36$mn or so. are you seriously telling me that $36mn is not a big deal?

and honestly, given Santana's background, this isn't Bill Gates-type money. he'll pay half of it in taxes, and i'm sure that all of his extended family and friends are all fairly poor, considering he's from the Dominican Republic. he could spend a lot of that money very quickly just setting up his family and friends. also consider that his career will most likely be over by his 40th birthday, and he'll have to live off of this cash for the rest of his life.

it's a lot of money, to be sure. but it's not that much money, in the grand scheme of things. whoever owns the Mets will make more money every single year of Santana's contract than Santana, and the owner will never have to take the mound.

by kindred on Feb 3, 2008 4:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't envy anyone's paycheck
Dude earned it, every cent.  Should teach us all to be thankful for what we have instead of complaining about the perceived excesses of others.
The hot stove is burning...

by cardzfan24 on Feb 3, 2008 1:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

amen
mo' money, mo' problems.
I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.

by _pistol_ on Feb 3, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1
I don't value my self worth on how much somebody I've never met makes (or anybody, actually).  "Greed" cries are hypocritical and childish.  

Now, personally I don't see how a pitcher could be worth that much for that long considering the shelf life of them.  I think that's a ballsy contract.  If he gets 4+ Santana-like years and he leads them to a World Series it'd probably be worth it, and probably would be worth far more than that if they take New York away from the Yankees like in the 80s.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Feb 3, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

they're going for this year...
... it's Pedro's last year, and i think it's Delgado's last year as well. the NL is definitely winnable, and i'd hate to have to face Johan/Pedro/Perez/El Duque in the playoffs (substitute El Duque for Maine if you prefer). they've got a real shot to win it all this year, and if they do then Santana's contract will probably pay for itself.

plus, the new ballpark opening in '09, and a newish TV network. this contract isn't that outrageous for the Mets, even if Santana breaks down after a few years.

now, if the mutterings are true that Santana's arm nearly gave out at the end of last year and he is headed for a major surgery in the next year or two, then the contract might be really bad. but that hasn't happened yet.

by kindred on Feb 3, 2008 4:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Santana has not missed a start
for four seasons in a row.  Zambrano is the only other pitcher that bests that record.  If Santana didn't have to face Cleveland (and he won't now) he would have again been in contention for a Cy Young Award.

This is a huge risk for the Mets to give such a long contract.  I don't know if they'll get 7 years of the great Santana-but I bet they will get 2, 3, or 4.  I cannot point to any fact to support that, it's just a gut feeling and  that he's been durable in the past.  But if I had to guess, I'd say his career will unfold like Pedro's.  Meaning, when he's done he's done.  But you'll get some great pitching from him until that happens.  The Mets have the money to take this risk.  I hope it works out only because I am such a huge fan of Santana's.

I do not for one minute begrudge Johan his big payday.  He has a special talent, and he's worked hard to get to the top of the pile.  You don't get there without hard work.  Revenue flow dictates these contracts too.  There will be enough excitement about him being with the Mets that I bet their season ticket sales increase.
And then I look at the Braves and Mike Hampton......  It's a crapshoot that's for sure.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Feb 3, 2008 11:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to add, that as bad (inefficient)
as the market is for ML talent, the market for mangerial/ executive/ CEO talent is 100x less efficient.  At least with these guys, their employers know exactly how well they performed.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Feb 4, 2008 2:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the market isn't inefficient...
... that word means something different than how you are using it. large salaries are not inefficient simply because they are large.

as for CEOs... you think companies just pull these guys off the street? of course not. CEOs have long track records of managerial success. usually, their track records are decades long. the companies who hire them know "how they performed" very well, and they make their CEO choices accordingly.

by kindred on Feb 6, 2008 5:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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