Carp's OK! (?)

by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Dec 5, 2008 6:16 PM EST Comment 18 comments

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bird-land/bird-land/2008/12/chris-carpenter-targets-january-to-start-throwing/

Thank god/they better not be lying about this. Who believes this?

In the same article, Mo concedes that they are going to be looking for pitching at the Winter meetings. Given that, I'd like to hear his reasoning for not offering Looper arbitration. I know its been discussed 17,000 times on here, but seriously, he's a smart guy, and it'd be interesting to hear what absurd idea was going through his head at the time.

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There are four or five ace/#2 type pitchers on the FA market

and he has a whole heap of money to spend. I really don’t want him talking about who he is talking to right now, and just let him go and target the guy that the others are ignoring.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Dec 5, 2008 7:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I agree.....

No one needs to know what Mozeliak is up too. I can well imagine there are ways for a rival club to drive up the cost of a FA in order to make the Redbirds spend more or to discourage their interest in a FA. Through the years I remember the Yanks and Red Sox having bidding wars for FA’s. This is not what the Cardinals need.

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby

by thegashousegang on Dec 5, 2008 7:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He’s very closed off, which I like. A lot of his trades have been of the quiet nature before they have happened. Actually, I can’t think of a trade that has happened with him yet that wasn’t quiet.

When Ohman, Holliday, Peavy all became public fodder and full of leaks the next thing we knew is that we were out of those talks. Greene compared to Peavy was massively different. We were always a team that “fits”, but nothing leaked until the deal was done.

Pretty much the same with all of the deals he’s done.

if it is the case that he values no leaks as part of his negotiation, you have to like that quality. Kinda has the mantra “I talk to you, and you alone. If you’re going to use the media to drive up price or play speculation games, I’ll take my player elsewhere”

if that proves to be the case, I’m developing a man crush.

One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.

by AdjustedExpectations on Dec 5, 2008 8:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh absolutely

I agree, I don’t want or expect him to come out now and talk about his plans. I was just saying that I would be interested to hear his reasoning because I think he’s proven himself a shrewd GM and there probably IS solid reasoning behind the (non)move, butas but a front-office peon, I don’t know what it is.

As for Ace/#2 starters…come on. I HIGHLY doubt they’ll be players for any of Sabathia/Lowe Burnett and Sheets is one of the biggest injury risks in the whole market. Jon Garland? Oliver Perez? Carl Pavano? I’m just not that excited about any of these guys.

"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."

by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Dec 5, 2008 7:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

if you’ll click on the reply link under the comment you’re referencing to reply it’ll be a lot easier to follow.

not at all trying to be a bear but if the two comments you just replied to become 6-7 screens long all of the sudden yours will be way down at the bottom and it’ll be hard to relate to and keep in context

One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.

by AdjustedExpectations on Dec 5, 2008 7:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah my bad

"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."

by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Dec 5, 2008 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It would be interesting to hear his reasoning.....

but I doubt he’ll ever talk! But, that is what I like about him.

" I think he’s proven himself a shrewd GM" ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ

He is shrewd and the more I watch him the more I like what I see. It could prove to interesting to watch him in action and perhaps we’ve only seen the beginning of a very good GM. I am waiting to see his next move. :)

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby

by thegashousegang on Dec 5, 2008 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mo's shrewdness...

I’ve been wondering if Mo didn’t offer Loop arbitration so he could sign him for a 1 or 2 year deal at less than what he would’ve made in arbitration. Maybe he has a feeling that Loop won’t get that 3 year deal or the annual salary he was after and thus is just sitting back and waiting for him to come back around and discuss a smaller deal? Either way…I think he probably should’ve offered arbitration, but I think Mo may just be waiting to see what kind of price tag Loop will have.

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 5, 2008 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This would qualify

as shrewd.

by spants on Dec 6, 2008 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

“it’d be interesting to hear what absurd idea was going through his head at the time”

Here’s my take on what is going through his head

"You know, the free agent market is really going a lot slower than I thought it would. Considering the talks I’ve had to other GMs it looks like it’ll be a slow developing one. Seeing how slow it has developed, I’m worried Looper may take the arb route and go for a two year deal next year – which may be a better year.

So he goes into arb and the market doesn’t matter any longer, it’s now up to the arb process. We turned him into a starter, so now starter money is involved.

Yeah he may be worth that arb, or maybe we can get him cheaper using the market as a tool. I’d like to do what I said I would do, get our team younger and spend money that allows us to do that. If I don’t have to worry about a settled arb then I can work the market to my liking to find parts that we can use as a team. If I got into the arb process then I’d have to set aside money for the decision and pencil in another starter before the market really evolves at all.

I’ll take my chances with the market, I believe I have a solid understanding of it. I did last year. "

One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.

by AdjustedExpectations on Dec 5, 2008 8:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You just struck that nail

squarely on the head.

As far as Carp goes, I am willing to be somewhat optimistic. I still want coverage for his spot, but with as much money as we have invested in him it is good to hear the nerve thing is on the right track. After all, he was pretty damn good last year on the few days he was able to pitch. Looks like the elbow is solid, so let’s just go one step at a time.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Dec 5, 2008 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that’s one thing i can say I like about the situation, it wasn’t like Mulder where the comeback was lacking any promise at all. Carp looked like Carp when he was on the mound. Structurally everything seems fine, it’s just the nerve, which seems to be the big culprit of most of the time missed last year.

I get most being cynical because of the medical side of things, but I do hope the base (here and otherwise) really support him should he come through ST alright. Carp shouldn’t be looked like in a Mulder prism in my opinion.

For one, there’s been no heroism involved, when he’s ready he’s came back. No rush, forcing second opinions and doing what he’s been told. You can’t say the same thing about Mulder, quite a few times after the fact you came to find out that “truth be told” he wasn’t really 100% in his comeback attempts.

Secondly, we gave up nothing but money for him – no Haren or the like. And when you consider the context of all of the money he’s gotten as a Card you have to look preinjury.

From 2003-2006 he cost us a total of 7.6m.
During that timespan he gave us a record of 51-18 with 644 IP(549K/132BB) and a average era of 3.13

Well below market. When he was signed to his new deal, it was at market price or even slightly below.

We may have not gotten much value out of Carp over the past couple of years but he hasn’t earned the Mulder prism, and Carp has given just as much to us when you consider the totality of his career.

One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.

by AdjustedExpectations on Dec 6, 2008 2:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so i shouldn't be worried he is playing down getting more pitching & trading AK?

because i swear to everything holy, if AK spends another season in the STL, i’m gonna hurt someone

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Dec 6, 2008 12:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

if you don’t appear to have to get rid of a player then the market should treat you better.

it’s probably his best interest to not talk up moving kennedy because it removes what leverage we have. now that leverage might not be much, but it may mean teams can’t consider him a salary dump grab to walk into and it shouldn’t while we consider him a black hole, he may be an upgrade or a stop gap somewhere else and his salary isn’t all that expensive when his defense is accounted for.

re pitching, I’m betting (read: hoping) we’re in the hunt and involved in talks just not being verbally active which is a good thing, we don’t need to drive up price on what would be a insurance play

One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.

by AdjustedExpectations on Dec 6, 2008 1:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

P-D today has quotes where his winter meeting focus will be pitching, so at least there he’s not done yet

One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.

by AdjustedExpectations on Dec 6, 2008 2:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

to gdm426

just to let you know, you are not the only one with a mad-on against Adam Kennedy. With me as well it has slid into the emotional (read, unreasonable) angst and teeth gnashing even thinking of him as a Card next year.
It’s hard for me to concede that we would be “ok” with AK as the primary starter at 2b this coming season. But the truth is, AK probably has little appeal elsewhere; I still can’t help having my Chief Inspector Dreyfus fantasy… just thinking of Kennedy coming to the plate makes my eyes twitch.

by the Tewk on Dec 7, 2008 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs