Hot Stove fanspost 12-4-12-12 or 250 comments whichever occurs first.

but then I realized I wanted to say 2nd or 3rd Starter. also, Moz will want to go chronologically I think, and keep concentrating on middle infield. whether that means Felipe Lopez or not is anyone’s guess. I just hope we get another starter (trade the farm for Halladay!)

My gal always called him “Uglier Eminem” years ago. I told her “Hey hun, guess who we got?” and she joked “Khalil Greene? ’Cause if I have to look at his ugliness in person, he better hit .350” and I was like “…Well, yeah. Khalil Greene.”

It’s not what you are on the outside, Khalil. Play hard and get in scoring position, and we’ll love you no matter what white rapper you look like.

Mo is not going to want to drop big coin on a starter or closer knowing that he may be pricing himself out of a good trade for a salary dump 2b. The market, especially for starters, is pretty deep and likely to move slow. St. Louis is a desirable destination for FA pitchers, too.

It would also help to sell Kennedy so we know how much salary we have to eat there.

LOOGY is also a good answer — the market is smaller and likely to move faster. The prices are less likely to fluctuate.

Link

"He has four pitches and three are above-average pitches," Duncan said during an interview with "The Sports Edge" on KFNS (590 AM). "That’s what you look for in a starting pitcher. I’m of the belief Kyle McClellan has the attributes to become a starting pitcher, and a good one, at the major league level."

If I could rec that comment, I would.

The Cards must add an established closer. If Mozeliak can’t land one, Duncan would be open to giving Jason Isringhausen another look in that role in the spring.

"If he does everything he has to do to recover from the injuries he had and he wants to give it a shot, I’d vote ‘yes’ to giving him a shot," Duncan said. "I know he’s interested in trying to continue pitching."

The lead in to this isn’t a quote so maybe Gordo is adding his thoughts (gasp!) to Duncan’s quotes. If Duncan is really of the opinion that a) we need a proven closer and b) Izzy is a viable option, than we’ve gone two steps back from his previous step forward.

If the Cards started the season without a proven closer, Duncan would use a "mix and match" approach in the bullpen, deploying Perez, Motte, Kinney, Ryan Franklin and the best late-inning lefty according to the situation.

Can we just leave the last name out of the mix. We know that doesn’t work.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8888962/Sources:-Giants-sign-Renteria-to-two-year-deal

Greene will be sold to us as the “big” acquisition for the MIF. I’m ok with that as long as the 2B is AT LEAST AS GOOD as Felipe Lopez and we don’t trade Ryan Ludwick. I don’t think anyone can deny being more excited about a K. Greene/ Lopez combo than an Izturiz/Kennedy combo.

Lopez on a 1 year deal wouldn’t be horrible, and it doesn’t tie the team down long term or cost the cardinals Ryan Ludwick.

Is the difference between Lopez and Kelly Johnson so much that we’d be willing to give up Ludwick? Or is everyone just writing Ludwick’s MONSTER season as a fluke? I don’t think its a risk worth taking.

I think the cardinals next moves should be more focused on ditching players (Kennedy, Pineiro, Flores). Once we can do that, it should clear up more money to determine what kind of 2B/Starting P combo we’d be able to go for.

is one of the pitchers in this deal, would that justify the Reyes trade for everyone? I think it would satisfy me. Reyes and Worrell for Khalil Greene seems fair. Reyes for Pedermo was an awful trade.

2 years and $4 million + incentives?

What has happened to Walt’s magic touch?

something about his screams dave duncan to me

hope i’m wrong, or if i’m right, we get him cheap

i think another starter is our most pressing need..i know kennedy at 2B isnt optimal and that he wants out, but i think he is worth the $3million we owe him

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/non-tender-cand.html

Brandon Backe
Erik Bedard- I would at least inquire and see how his arm is..still think the guys overated
Matt Belisle
Angel Berroa
John Buck
Chris Burke-backup maybe?
Daniel Cabrera
Chris Capuano
Jason Davis
Randy Flores- pleas i hope so..
Jason Frasor
Chad Gaudin
Jimmy Gobble
Jonny Gomes
Aaron Miles
Brian Tallet
Willy Taveras- i would also see what he might cost. It’d be worth a gamble in my mind.

I think if Mo could, he would

I think if he did, Tony would have ball-in-hand, and he ain’t playin 9-ball

If your not going to keep Glaus after this year why not deal him for Kendrick and get Freese/ Wallace up and let them duke it out for the spot.

My only question is does Glaus want to go back to the Angels and do the Angels want Glaus back?

James McDonald or Scott Elbert?

If we were going to do it I think young pitching would have to be the focus.

It’s been a while since we’ve heard his name come up in discussion. But he has always seemed to be a guy the cards have had their eye on. I initially wondered if a straight up deal for Skip Schumaker would make sense for both team, but after reviewing the Rox roster…it seems there are looking to eliminate an OF (Tavares) to make room for Dexter Fowler and Carlos Gonzalez. According to this article, http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081203&content_id=3700910&vkey=news_col&fext=.jsp&c_id=col, the rox would be looking to unload Barmes’ contract so maybe he could be had in a Khalil-type deal?

We are locked up for C & 1B through 2011. We have three plausible 3B candidates. We have ridiculous OF depth. We have three signed starting pitchers through 2011 (though Carp’s capacity to throw is unknown). We have decent bullpen depth in controlled players, including at the expensive closer position. We have a big long-term gap in the middle infield. We have limited prospects there, including several not likely to be ready soon.

But looking forward, we have about $48M locked up in starting pitching, 1B and C for 2010, and about $54M in the same folks in 2011. With that money we need to accommodate continuing arbitration (Ludwick), possibly re-sign Ankiel, bolster the bullpen with one or two arms a year, and get one or two starters (depending on how internal options like KMac, Boggs, Garcia, and Todd show up). We also need to keep the middle infield staffed.

It seems like the money is there ($45-50M/year) to do all those things, especially if internal starting options work out, or if Carpenter comes back healthy. I think in looking at 2b (and at SS beyond 2009) Mo needs to look for a long term option. I really think Mo needs to take a chance now, spend some prospects and some $ and see what we need to do to get Brian Roberts (or an equivalent figure) to come to St. Louis and extend for three years. The money is there to pay him. I am reluctant to shell out for a temporary fix at 2b. I don’t see many free agents likely to be much better than Barden/Miles/Ryan manning second, and they will doubtless cost far more.

The second baseman for 2008 should be a start of a long-term plan or he should be a real cheap solution while we try to set up our long-term plan.

he’s our guy if you ask me…i think we can get him on a relatively cheap deal…an pitching is more pressing than a 2B to me

In thinking of a second baseman who can also provide pop, what about JORGE CANTU of the marlins. I feel like with his lack of continuity in regards to hitting he could be had for a decent price. I know he is available and the marlins will probably need young pitching. nobody is gonna want adam kennedy so I say we just cut his slack ass.

Is there any reason why the Cards aren’t/didn’t pick up this guy in the Rule 5 draft? He seems to dominate at AAA, but has a bit of trouble putting it together in the Bigs. I know that sounds reminiscent of another former Card (Mr. Flat bill/high socks), but I really don’t think they’re the same pitcher. I’d think Duncan could work some magic with him, and help him be successful. And he’d only cost $4 Mil for a potential 5th starter. I know Rule 5 would state that he’d have to be on the ML roster for the whole year, but if we’re looking for relatively cheap pitching anyway, with ML experience….

Or is he really just that bad that the Yanks and no one else want him?

or is the budget not there? I’m guessing Wood would need at least $9 million per and at least two years. Not sure what the market for Penny is. Anyone have an educated guess? If we could sign these two then Mo could shop some of our outfield depth for prospects to strengthen our minor league system further. Thoughts?

or is this a trade senario?

Grudz declined the Royals offer because he “wants to play for a contender.” Can we pleeeasssseee bring him in? We could trade Kennedy to the Royals for a few balls and call it even.

There are several open questions on the pitching front, many of which will not be answered till spring.

- How will perez or motte do closing?
- Will carp come back healthy?
- Will any of our prospects grab a rotation spot (KMac, Boggs, Todd)?
- Who else will be injured/ineffective?

We knocked around an idea last year that Wellemeyer could come out of the rotation and close. This had a fair amount of support. It seems that if we get a short-contract starter (say, Johnson) and a swingman (say, Heilman), we would have substantial wiggle room in our rotation. That way, if everything is going great for Perez as closer, we can use our spare parts to keep the rotation going. If Carp comes back and Perez is doing well, piniero can be a (very expensive) mop-up guy. If neither Perez nor Motte look up to the closing task, Wellemeyer could be pulled from the rotation and used as closer.

I just think that rotations, like battle plans, rarely survive the first contact with the enemy. The more built-in flexibility we have, the better. And moving Heilman into the rotation or Wellemeyer into the closer spot is a lot easier than hunting for a rotation arm or closer in May.

i don’t know if the idea that we could have a 123 of Wainer, Carp, burnett would make me sleep easy or stay up all night dreaming of the possibilities. I know Burnett is 32 soon and is demanding a 5 year deal of which the last two have great potential to simply be dead salary, but Burnett’s willingness to play in st louis and the dominance that he could provide in the post season can not be undervalued. btw this is from k rosenthal over at fox sports. We definitely need a proven starter and we don’t need innings eaters to earn starts in the playoffs, we need dominate pitchers who can win us games in the post-season. IM ALL FOR IT

Randy makes a lot of sense, but how about Jamie Moyer?

Great season last year, wants more than the Phillies are going to give him.

And he’s left-handed.

He’s said he wants a two-year, but I think that’s puffing. I see him on a one-year deal ultimately, for less than Johnson. So far he’s missed out on the FA buzz and could be a serious sleeper. Philly may be happy with their pitching prospects (kendrick & happ) and might not pay the bill for him.

just in case anyone hadn’t seen it. after all of our usual back and forth about how much is worth it, i’d love to see him with the bob.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8911104/Sources:-Cardinals-serious-about-Burnett

there are two reports that the Braves are interested in Ankiel. One says for Kelly Johnson or Yunel Escobar and maybe more. Another report talks of how the Braves are maybe looking at JJ Hardy at SS.
If we traded for Johnson it would not only provide us with the most powerful infield in baseball, but would also increase the amount of $ Mo has to pursue pitchers and open a spot for Rasmus in CF (and more PT for Mather as well, which I may value more than others).

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/braves-interest.html

For some reason it won’t let me reply……..

If you could get Johnson for Ankiel + prospect that would be a great trade in my eyes. Ankiel is just going to be on his way out next year and I think a Mather/Skip platoon will at least equal his production for this year. Johnson would give us more than a quick fix at MIF for a change. I didn’t like the idea of trading Ludwick, but this would make me very happy.

I think Escobar is unrealistic. To be honest I’d say there really isn’t a chance of us landing Johnson either, but it’s plausable.

Against RHP

Skip
Rasmus
Pujols
Ludwick
Glaus
Johnson
Greene
Molina
Pitcher

That would be a SICK lineup.

Make that trade and grab either Kelly or Yunel for Anks. That way we’d have a MI beyond one year as always. Ankiel will prove too costly for us with Boras as his agent. Do it, Mo!

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/dodgers-sign-ma.html

whatever happened to Mark Loretta? Seems like a steal to me. I always wondered how he get slipping through the cracks.

The Cards should try to work out a deal with the White Sox. The White Sox are big on developing young pitching and are in need of an OF. They have an older pitcher in Buerle ($14M/yr for ’09, ’10, ’11 Age 30 at start of ’09 and has 8 consecutive seasons of 200+ ip, era+ of 121 last season) who has previously stated he would like to pitch in St. Louis. The White Sox also have Dotel under contract for ’09 at $6M (2008: 67 ip, 3.76 era, 92:29 k:bb, 1.21 whip 122 era+ and has closing experience) and will walk after that (could receive draft picks if offered arb-35 y/o now, could be looking for final 2-3 year deal to end career and be willing to decline arb).

What would it take to get these two players? The salaries put the Cardinals a little out of their payroll target, but I believe being $5M over would be well worth it to have another innings eater in the rotation and a closer with some experience who isn’t locked into a multi-year deal.

Send Ankiel (opens spot for Rasmus), and 1 or 2 minor league pitchers (Boggs/Hawksworth/Todd/Mortenson/Walters/Ottavino)? Not sure what it would take but I think Mo should give Ken Williams a call and make something work, on the condition the White Sox don’t send Kelvin Jimenez back.

Any thoughts?

he’s a 2b. He’s playing well in AZ. he got a little AAA time this year but had a .829 OPS at AA where he spent most of his time.

Sounds like he might stick as a backup MIF. Could turn into something better.

And he’s a cub. So, if we took him, we’d be screwing the cubbies.

before the Cubs get Peavy. When this happens they will have the best starting rotation in the NL and maybe in all of baseball. Of course there are health concerns with some of their guys like Harden, but if they are all healthy they could run away with the Central…at least on paper but the games still have to be played.

I think we might have a chance to compete with them if Carp returns to form and Lohse and Wainer have great seasons. It’s a lot of “what if’s” and “hope for this” but it’s all we have right now. We can’t afford to compete with the Cubs money wise…but I bet our guys can suprise some folks like last year.

I was cruising around on mltraderumors and reading on the possibility of the Rays and the Cards have opened up talks. Apparently, thier interested in Ank and scu, Ive seen alot of Sonnastine support, but Edwin Jacksons name is one i find very interesting,and with the Rays starting potcing depth it possibility. Hes only 25 years onld, just told 25 in September. He threw 183 innings last year, and 161 the year before that. Last year he walked 77, not great but doable, and he struck out 108 not bad. His E.R.A last year was right around 4.40(same for his career, roughly) but hes still young and the N.L central isnt the A.L east. Hes not elidgible for free agency until 2012 hes arb elgible after next year tough…On a not so high note his WHIP is1.6 for is career…kinda of decieving if you look at everything hes not that bad.

On another note, I saw a Jays fan say they had NO catching dept whatsoever. Nor do they have 3rd base depth, sounds like a match to me. Anderson package for someonle like Downs or Marcum?…..thoughts?

He is really good and is still cost controlled for a couple more years. I know that the Royals asking price is steep, but we have a lot of chips to deal from.

Too much of a risk? His agents are pushing as if he’s a possibility for another team. He’ll likely be a Brave, but let’s play to the fact that his agents are pushing him for contenders: good signing or no?

I vote yeah, simply because I love the guy. He’s still got it, and he’s as clutch as they get. If his agents are throwing his medical analysis at every contender out there, it seems he’s healthy enough.

subscription required, I think, but he’s pretty much liveblogging from the lobby. Some stuff there I hadn’t seen anywhere else, IE cards still in on beimel and wolf, cubs might trade big Z, etc.

(read: Carp, AP, Ank, Greene, Lil’Dunc Kinney) one is mindful of this quote,
“It’s difficult to believe someone is telling the truth when you know you’d lie if you were in the same position.”

well… according to this article over at Mlb.com….

Go To:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081209&content_id=3708563&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

that makes the Greene trade look even better now

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/jj-putz-rumor-1.html

it says the cards offered this. i’d rather not see ankiel go for a reliever.

mlbtraderumors says nationals are willing to offer teixera 10 years at over 20 mil per.

Ankiel and Motte for Matt Capps, EASILY my favorite guy of everybody mentioned. Thoughts?

If the cardinals are the team that signs Fuentes for 3/$33 I think that would be an awful move.

rumor has it that Tampa got the left handed hitting corner outfielder it was looking for instead of Ankiel and traded away from their surplus SP.