Pick your Cardinals Top 10 Prospects
With the recent anouncement of the Cards ranking 8th in Baseball America’s organizational prospect rankings, how about naming your top 10 Cards prospects. Future Redbirds has a great list going right now. Most I agree, others I don’t. Try to justify your own rankings…
10. David Freese- I’d like him more if he was 22 (or 23 or 24). Its hard to get real excited about a 26 year old putting up good minor league numbers. If he’s any kind of a prospect, he better put up good numbers at the age of 26. I think that should be expected. Either way, he plays + defense and could end up hitting .280 with 20 HR as a big league ball player. Not too shabby.
9. Jaime Garcia- Without the injury, he easily cracks the top 5. Luckily Tommy John has become a pretty routine surgery for pitchers. Maybe it’s a blessing that it comes as a young pitcher rather than in the middle of his prime. Then again, maybe it just spells a career full of arm injuries. He’s got the most potential of any SP in the system. Probably a decent #3 with a chance at being better. He’s an extreme ground ball pitcher, which is always encouraging.
8. Jess Todd- I know the criticisms: too small and doesn’t have a 3rd pitch. But check his AA and AAA numbers, then view the peripherals. Pretty impressive. Long term, maybe he’s best as a reliever, but he’ll have to prove me and others differently before that move is made. Other than Jaime Garcia, he’s the best SP in our system. That makes our position players and relievers all that more impressive considering we are the 8th ranked organization in baseball.
7. Bryan Anderson- Obviously this is much lower than most people would put him. I think, quite frankly, he’s being vastly overrated. I really wish I could put him higher, but he’s average at best behind the plate and has shown next to no power (1 HR every 65 Abs). Obviously, he does hit for a high average and is very very young for a AAA catcher, but some power needs to develop for him to justify being a top 5 prospect in this organization. Right now he’s a future Paul Lo Duca from the left side, with even less power.
6. Jon Jay- Probably the most underrated player in the organization. He dominated AA and AAA last year, yet didn‘t crack the top 10 on Future Redbirds list. He’s getting a bit aged for a prospect (24), but people are quick to give praise to Freese, when Jay put up similar numbers despite being younger. I guess my question would be, if he stays at AAA for 2 more seasons, would he be better at age 26 than Freese? I would think so. He also has + speed and ++defense. Unfortunately, his success is being overshadowed probably because he’s blocked from every direction.
5. Jason Motte- Like Todd, the complaint is not enough pitches. Its legitamate, he really only has one pitch…blazing fastball. But look at the peripherals at AAA and MLB this year. Insane K/BB rate in AAA and actually improved in MLB. Now maybe MLB hitters hadn’t seen much of him, but you know they got the straight fastball scouting report, and it didn’t matter. If he develops a 2nd pitch, he’s a dominating closer. Without it, he’s probably still a solid reliever/setup man.
4. Daryl Jones- Most Cards fans know the book on him. The organization finally took a high upside project type player in the 2005 draft after a shameful 2004, and it appeared he was a complete bust. Then Jones went on a tear through A+ and AA last season. Finally he showed some bat control, plate patience, and developing power. My biggest concern would be his K rate, which is still awfully high. Despite that, I think he’s turned a corner and I continue to expect him to put up solid numbers next season in a split between AA and AAA.
3. Perez- The difference between Perez and Motte is a pretty unexciting slider. Motte has better velocity and probably has better control too. But that unexciting slider still has potential and can keep hitters off balance a bit. If he wants to be a dominating closer, it needs to be an out pitch though. I think he got a taste of the big leagues and now realizes why its so important. I also like his mental makeup, which is obviously important for a closer. Look for him to have a quality year, then assume full time closer duties after 2009.
2. Brett Wallace- Last year we were 13th in MLB rankings, now were 8th. Most of that is Wallace’s impact (along with a bit of help from others). If the draft were to be redone today, he’d probably be a top 5 pick. He’s a complete package at the dish. Enough power to drive the ball deep, enough patience to draw walks, and the ability to hit for a very high average (think .320 25-30 HR). I look at him as Garrett Atkins without the Coors field effect (and a L handed hitter). That’s good from the plate, bad in the field. Either way, its not hard to find a place for a player of his talent to play. If it isn’t 3rd base, we’ll know by the end of 2009.
1. Colby Rasmus- 2008 wasn’t what he wanted, or anyone else. He was injured, and when he wasn’t, didn’t hit all that well. But in the middle of numerous injuries, he had a more Rasmus-like June (.338/.417/.541) before suffering another injury. His early season slump can be excused 2 ways: he normally struggles upon promotions and he was probably frustrated after earning a big league spot in spring training, and not getting it. How would you feel if your boss told you that multimillion dollar raise you earned was going to have to wait 1 more year at least ( i.e. his FA clock)? That’s baseball though, he’s going to need more mental toughness than that. Obviously, 5-tool potential. Probably a .275 hitter with 30 HR potential and 20 SB. I still like the Sizemore comparison, although they went in different directions this season. His talent can really be summed up in 1 way. Despite injuries and a down year at the plate, he’s still ranked in the top 8 prospects in all of baseball. People know he’s the real deal, its just a matter of time before he starts proving it.
Now a quick justification of notable players I left off:
Craig- the difference between Freese and Craig, a glove. He's blocked every direction. He needs a position change, but LF or 1B would be ideal, and he'd be blocked there as well.
Kozma- I've seen him play a couple times and I'm shocked he was a 1st round pick. The reports of defense that stick to shortstop are off in my opinion. He's been pretty awful with the glove in the games I've seen. Limited power and plate patience to boot.
Boggs- AAA peripherals aren't as impressive as the straight stats. He's bottom of the rotation material though...
Mortenson- Like Boggs, his peripherals aren't very impressive, but neither are his straight stats. He was advanced too quickly. Control is a big issue.
Other players are big potential type guys. Some like Herron and Ottavino took a big step back in 2008. Hopefully they improve in 09 and work their way back onto the list.
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Top ten.
1. Chris Perez. Not trying to be provocative here but far too much attention was paid to Colby’s one good month at AAA and far to little to Perez’s show of competence in the major leagues in a premium role. Unlike Motte he was there long enough for the hitters to adjust to his stuff. Now he’ll have to adjust in turn.
2. Rasmus. Don’t get me wrong. The few clips I’ve seen of him make me think he could be a super star. The long slumps in the minors temper my enthusiasm. My estimate of his ceiling has taken only a a minor hit but his eta for stardom is years away. Hopefully we’ll have the patience to wait for it to happen. He should not break camp with the team this spring and nooooooo trades should be made on the assumption he will.
3. Brett Wallace. Until his comeback in the AFL, his defensive questions had me rating him around 7th. Now I’m a believer that he’ll be a special enough hitter to have great value as a trade piece if nothing else.
4. Jaime Garcia. Far and away the best starting prospect. No guarantee that he’ll be okay after TJ surgery but he could be even better. Worth waiting for.
5. Jess Todd. I know that those who’ve seen him pitch aren’t that impressed but his immediate competence at every level has impressed me. He will be a major leaguer and it should happen soon and he should have value in some role. He and Perez are the only guys you can say all that about.
6. Daryl Jones. The tool box is open but the house ain’t built yet. He’s been my favorite prospect since he was drafted. Has a long way to go but what a ceiling.
7. Bryan Anderson. Everytime I relegate him to backup catcher I have to remind myself of several things. He’s got a slugger’s build. He’s a left handed hitter. He’s had to dedicate himself (successfully it appears) to becoming a better receiver. He’s been way young for every league he’s played in. If he pokes out 15 homers in AAA this year he’s a huge asset.
8. Nico Vasquez.. Not because I bought the “Little Amaury” hyperbole but because I think he’s our best middle infield prospect. I like his scouting report and his first year stats. Second baseman of the future.
9. Jason Motte. In reality I think that, if he doesn’t get a real second pitch, he’ll be back in Memphis by May. Still it’s nice to have a real fastball in the Cardinal’s organization for the first time since Bob Gibson. One thing I like is that he got off to a great start. Then he hit a real rough spot at Memphis maybe indicating that the hitters were sitting on his fastball. Then he came back possiby indicating that his slider, or whatever, was getting good enough to keep them honest. We’ll see come April.
10. David Freese. I actually really like him and hope that, by some curious combination of things, that he gets a shot at proving himself as the Cards’ third baseman. It doesn’t really seem like it could happen though.
I thought Perez had exhausted Prospect status...
1.Rasmus
2.Wallace
2.Motte
3.Perez
4.Garcia
5.Anderson
6.Salas
7.D. Jones
8.Todd
9.Freexe
10.Craig
11.JAy
@CrimsonBirdFan
None of this is criticism, I’m just probing your thinking.
8: Todd — I don’t understand the sentiment that his peripherals are good. If anything it seems the opposite to me. A decent strikeout rate with decent control but a better ERA than the peripherals would indicate.
6: Jay – “people are quick to give praise to Freese, when Jay put up similar numbers despite being younger.” What stats are you talking about. The difference between these two would seem to be ISO. Freese had .100 points on Jay.
Azruavatar...
Personally, I look at Jess Todd’s peripherals in AA and see a pretty low walk rate and decent K rate. Plus an extremely low WHIP of 1.00. My point wasn’t to say that his peripherals were better than the ERA would indicate. I was simply stating that the ERA wasn’t a fluke in my opinion. He pitched well based on other statistics.
As for Jay, he beats Freese in BA and OBP for the year (obviously most spent in AA for Jay vs AAA for Freese). Freese clearly has an upper hand in the power department (ISO), but Jay demonstrated better plate patience and contact rate. Freese struck out 111 times in AAA, Jay K’d only 56 times all year. Jay probably is a better defender (both are good though) and also has a speed advantage (although the SB numbers as a minor leaguer haven’t been all that impressive). Obviously your right that Freese has much more power, and in that way their not all that similar. My point was more to state that they both had equally impressive years (not necessarily in the same statistical categories), yet people are quick to forget the younger (and probably better upside) of Jon Jay. I’ll ask the same question as I did in my post to you: Do you think, given 2 more seasons at AAA, Jon Jay will put up better numbers than Freese did this season? If the answer is yes, then he’s the better prospect, if no, then go with Freese.
by CrimsonBirdFan on Dec 31, 2008 2:20 AM EST up reply actions
Rankings
Do you think, given 2 more seasons at AAA, Jon Jay will put up better numbers than Freese did this season? If the answer is yes, then he’s the better prospect, if no, then go with Freese.
Opinions on this can certainly differ, but I disagree with this approach. I think that even if the answer is yes, there is a value component to the two additional years it would take Jay to have better numbers (to stick with the hypothetical). When I did my rankings for the Future Redbirds list, one of the components that I found difficult to weigh was “upside” vs. proximity to big league contribution. If player X has an upside of 10 (to use numbers that have no meaning whatsoever), but won’t be major league ready for 3 seasons and player Y has an upside of 8, but is major league ready today, who is more valuable? The way I read your post, you would say player X based solely on the higher upside, but I don’t think you are taking the proximity into account.
For the record, I agree that Jay’s performance has been very underrated (I think I ranked him higher than the others at FR), although I still like Freese more at this point.
Your Right...
While I don’t think I completely disregarded proximity to the big leagues (9/10 guys on my list will be in AAA or MLB this year), I do place much more value on a players upside. Certainly their is “value” in either approach. Personally, I’d rather rank a prospect higher if I think he’s got a great chance to be a very good player in MLB, regardless of when that happens. You could make the argument that Freese is really only minimally ahead of Jay in the “MLB ready” department. Jay has minimal experience at AAA, but that was more due to the surplus of OF in our system than it does with his performance. Freese may make the big league roster out of ST, but Jay wouldn’t be far behind if he wasn’t blocked by other players. The upside factor is also why I ranked Daryl Jones as high as I did. Notice, age isn’t the only factor I included in my thinking as well. I did rank Anderson 7th, despite being very young for AAA. Mostly, again, because his upside is limited with no power and poor defense at the catcher position.
I guess its really a difference of opinion, but I’m glad you share my sentiment that Jay is being vastly underrated.
by CrimsonBirdFan on Dec 31, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
No love for Mike Parisi
He had a really good year in AAA, don’t let his 8.22 era in the majors this year fool you. He doesn’t crack my top ten though.
Rasmus
Motte
Freese
Wallace
Craig
Jones
Todd
Garcia
Greene
Jay
are those in order?
do you see Freese and Motte as better prospects than Wallace, or do you just have them that way because you think they will help earlier than Wallace?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I think that Freese is very underrated
He has shown good power and plate discipline over the last 3 years. Everyone describes his year in AAA as a breakout year, but he has been doing it for the last couple of seasons.
I mean to put Wallace ahead of Motte. I think that Motte is a better relief prospect than Wallace is a hitting prospect. He is already a very good MLB player right now but also keep in mind that he has only been a pitcher for a couple of years. Once/if he gains a legitimate offspeed pitch and even better command than he already has he might be one of the best reliever in the game. I would put Wallace as a better prospect because a good hitter is much better than a good reliever.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 30, 2008 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
my top 10
1. Wallace
2 Perez
3 Motte
4 Daryl Jones
5 Anderson
6 Rasmus
7 Todd
8 Freese
9 Mortensen
10 Shane Robinson
unbelievable
you have to show me how daryl jones and anderson are higher than rasmus…i mean if you look at the fact that perez and motte have performed well in the majors then i guess i understand those two….but seriously, rasmus at 6?
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 31, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
They all have better numbers than Rasmus
Hell Jay should probably be a head of him, we should have traded Rasmus when we had the chance he is definately our most overated prospect
I don't even no where to start here
where is Azru when we need him?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
it's the new year's weekend! what's a robot to do but party? give him a break!
bump this monday & he’ll take care of it i’m sure.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
1.) Razamataz
2.) Freese
3.) Todd
4.) Lynn (you watch, if stays healthy, he’s damn good)
5.) Wallace
6.) Motte
7.) Salas
8.) Jones
9.) Garcia
10.) Anderson
11.) Jay
…
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Dec 31, 2008 10:05 AM EST reply actions
1- Raz
2- Wallace
3- Perez (only because I fear he hasn’t seen the last of AAA if someone resembling a closer is signed)
4- Anderson
5-Motte
6-Jones
7- Mort
8-Todd
9-Boggs
10- Craig/Freese (I am torn here)
Of course Garcia totally changes this list, as I would have him 2 or 3 if he were healthy.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
My picks
1- Razzle Dazzle
2- Walrus
3- Motte
4- Garcia (when healthy)
5- Todd
6- Anderson
7- Freese
8- Boggs
9- Craig
10- Jay
I’d put Mather and Perez on the list, however I consider them major leaguers now, and I still want to see Freese as our corner infield backup at the start of ’09.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
My Top 10
1. Colby Rasmus
2. Brett Wallace
3. Daryl Jones
4. Bryan Anderson
5. Jaime Garcia
6. Jess Todd
7. Pete Kozma
8. Mitch Boggs
9. David Freese
10. Allen Craig
A "prospect" isn't necessarily someone
who arrives in a year, let alone someone with a one-year “career” to think about going forward. Jaime Garcia is still a fantastic prospect even though he probably won’t pitch again until 2010. So, and excluding Perez because he has at least exhausted his rookie status, whether a “prospect” or not:
1. Walrus
2. Raz (not because he has disappointed, but oh man, can Wallace HIT)
3. Garcia
4. Anderson
5. Todd — I might be too high on him
6. Jones
7. Motte — I still distrust a straight-as-a-string fastball, even at 98 mph
8. Vasquez
9. Kozma
10. Mortensen
This is a really deep pool. There are at least five other guys (Lynn, Freese, Craig, Boggs, Jay, maybe Hill, Salas, etc.) who would be reasonable for the bottom 3 spots and would certainly have been in top-10 lists from most recent years.
I agree that there is a very deep pool of prospects...
which is one of the reasons the Cards are ranked very high.
To me though, there is a drop off after Wallace/Rasmus/Perez and maybe Garcia that leads into younger players that are based more on potential (Anderson, Jones) or slightly older players that are just now really performing well at the levels their expected to be at (Freese, Craig, Jay, Todd, etc…).
I don’t really see how Vasquez, Kozma, Mortensen can be on your list. None of them have really even shown potential, other than being a fairly high draft pick.
by CrimsonBirdFan on Jan 2, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
In order:
Vasquez hit well as a high-school grad in rookie ball, and as far as I can tell, looked good doing it. A 2B who can hit can advance very rapidly in this system.
Kozma also benefits from position scarcity. Excellent glove at SS plus decent on-base skills WILL play in the bigs, even lacking power. Just don’t expect him to be a star.
Mortensen is perhaps a bit of a prejudice with me, but I’m suspicious of fireballers who have no idea where the ball is going (Adam Ottavino, are you listening?). A guy with evil breaking stuff at an early age appeals to me more, despite the rough half-year at Memphis.
Truthfully, I don’t feel strongly about any of these. The main reason they appear on my list instead of Freese, Craig, Jay, etc., is that the others are blocked and may have a very hard time moving up and developing. I’m not a Boggs believer based on what I’ve seen of him.
by StanTheManFan on Jan 2, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
As for
Vasquez- K’d in 25% of his ABs at rookie ball. I think he’ll struggle a bit in A ball to start the season, then get on track. He’s a very talented player, but there are too many people putting up better numbers at higher levels for him to be a top 10 prospect IMO
Kozma- I know a lot of people have reported that his glove is good enough to stick at SS, but I watched several QC games last year and he was not impressive at all as a SS. I’m not sure how many errors he had on the season, but it couldn’t have been too pretty. I have my doubts that he sticks at SS, and I definitely don’t think he has an “excellent” glove. But if he can develop into a middle of the pack hitting and defending SS, he’ll prove me wrong.
Mortensen- I agree that Mortensen has some solid potential, but I couldn’t rank him when he really didn’t have all that good of a year at AA, nonetheless AAA. He simply didn’t warrant a call up, and he struggled because of it. If he can learn to control his pitches, he’s got middle of the rotation potential, I just doubt he’ll do that any time soon.
by CrimsonBirdFan on Jan 3, 2009 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
My ten.. been noodling on this the last week or two.
This system really isn’t as deep as some people think it is in my mind. I see two premiere talents, a powerless catcher to date, toolsy HS player putting it together, fireballing reliever, pitching w/ TJ, and a couple late-blooming 3Bs.
1. Wallace — No doubt in my mind he’s going to rake his way into the bigs. Rasmus is the 5-tool talent, but Wallace simply doesn’t stop hitting.
2. Rasmus — assuming he can figure his crap out, you have a very intriguing prospect.
3. Anderson — fairly sure bet to hit without much power. Decent behind the plate.
4. Jones — breakout season, figured out how to hit. Possibly putting all the tools together in a Dexter Fowler mold.
5. Garcia — would have ranked third if not for the surgery. See you next year.
5. Motte — crazy K numbers, but there has to be a catch. Big leaguers can all hit fastballs.
6. Todd — extremely solid year from a nice little sleeper in the 07 draft.
7. Freese — late-bloomer but you can’t deny the power in AAA. One more year, though, and he’s an AAAA masher in the Seabol mold.
9. Craig — slight step behind Freese. Seems to have very similar tools.
10. Jay — not as high on him as some people. Don’t think the power is legit but he has a good eye
Notable mentions - still have time to salvage a career?
David Kopp; good mechanics, think he could come alive as a solid reliever this year
PJ Walters; Hittable but good K/IP in AAA at age 23. Good bounce back
Tyler Herron; still think he has a shot
Tyler Greene; came alive with 16 HRs in AA -
Peter Kozma; destined to be a fairly middle of the road back-up SS
And when is Thomas Pham going to figure out baseball? 20 year old CF who hits 17 HRs/17 SBs in 312 ABs but barely hits .200?
Good farm team? I’ll be interested to see which seven teams are ranked higher than the Cardinals. Eh.. I think the Rays, Rangers, Red Sox, Orioles, Marlins, Giants, Braves, Indians, A’s.. maybe even the Royals. 11th or 12th best farm team in my book.

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