Good News, Everyone
An odd headline today at the P-D's baseball portal: Cardinals place eighth in another publication's prospect rankings! But for anyone who remembers Carmen Cali's mythical mid-90s fastball or the John Gall years, the Cardinals breaking into the top ten organizations according to Baseball America is cause for dancing in the streets, or a fist-pump at your desk.
Much is made, now, of the transformational 2005 draft, which produced Colby Rasmus, Chris Perez, Tyler Herron, Daryl Jones, Bryan Anderson, Mitch Boggs, and the immortal Wil Pujols, so I thought it might be edifying to take a look at what the Cardinals' top ten prospects looked like that year. And it was, in the same way that people who had serious drug problems in the sixties go around visiting high schools and telling bright-eyes youths not to make the same mistakes they did.
1. Anthony Reyes -- 15th Round, 2003
| YEAR | AGE | LG | GS | IP | K | BB | HR | ERA |
| 2004 | 22 | A+ | 6 | 31 | 36 | 7 | 5 | 4.35 |
| AA | 12 | 74 | 102 | 13 | 13 | 3.04 |
... I don't want to talk about it. It should be said, at least, that Reyes was not considered a weak number one prospect; this Cardinals list got hammered not for its front-line talent but for what passed for prospects as soon as you got down past five, as you'll see in a minute. That was a gorgeous AA line he put up, with no minor league experience, and he would continue to flash absurd K:BB ratios all the way up through the minors to the part I don't want to talk about.
2. Adam Wainwright -- acquired from Braves
| YEAR | AGE | LG | GS | IP | K | BB | HR | ERA |
| 2002 | 20 | A+ | 28 | 163 | 184 | 48 | 7 | 3.31 |
| 2003 | 21 | AA | 28 | 163 | 167 | 66 | 9 | 3.36 |
| 2004 | 22 | AAA | 12 | 64 | 64 | 28 | 12 | 5.34 |
2004, you'll remember, was Wainwright's first year in the system; I can remember looking at a top prospects list leading up to 2004 with Wainwright on it—the only Cardinals rep, of course—and thinking that that was all well and good, but they still couldn't do it themselves. Then he went and had this truncated, unattractive Memphis debut after having three years in a row that could pass, superficially, for really nice MLB lines.
Up until the moment he became an excellent relief pitcher I remember being unconvinced that he would ever do anything; his struggles upon moving from Atlanta to St. Louis seemed inevitable and unalterable.
Alright. Up to this point this seems like a passable system. Reyes was an extremely exciting pitcher with vague injury concerns, and Wainwright, the year before, was among the best pitching prospects in the league. They're not quite Colby and the Fat Man, as far as one-two prospect punches go, but they'll do. This is the part of Space Mountain where it seems like you're just coasting around leisurely and then all of a sudden there's a huge cliff:
3. Blake Hawksworth -- draft and follow, 2001
YEAR
AGE
LG
GS
IP
K
BB
HR
ERA
2002
19
R
12
66
61
18
8
3.14
2003
20
A
10
55
57
12
0
2.31
A+
6
32
32
11
2
3.94
2004
21
A+
2
11
11
3
2
5.91
That's right. The Cardinals' #3 prospect in 2005 was a guy who pitched two games and then tore his labrum. Hawksworth's position on the valuable prospect <--> cool name continuum wasn't quite so lopsided at this point, but this is the kind of guy that the New Look Cardinals are apparently no longer reliant upon—Jaime Garcia is, according to Derrick Goold, no longer a top ten prospect. The Old Look Cardinals just had nobody else. The nobodies continue:
4. Chris Lambert -- first round pick, 2004
No charts, Spreadsheet Boy! No charts!
Oh, god, this is—it's really awkward. If you've been reading me long enough you might be aware of a problem I had with my host last year, wherein some unpatched server vulnerability led to Chris Lambert's ghost possessing my website and hijacking discussions about rotation construction and promised site updates.
We had a nice thing... if you like terror!
He goes away if you just avoid eye contact. Anyway... he's probably here to talk about how his corporeal form, doomed to haunt mid-sized American cities for the rest of eternity, made a few appearances for the Detroit Tigers last year after a pretty nice season with the Toledo Mudhens.
It's two words!
Right—the Toledo Mud Hens. Anyway, in 2004 Lambert, that rare mix of unpolished stuff with college age, had nine good starts with Palm Beach and looked to be a pretty decent first round draft choice. His starring role in the 2004 Draft Debacle wouldn't be realized until later, and—
Are you done? I've really gotta get going.
Oh. Well, uh, I guess. You're not going to boast about your win against the Twins, or anything?
I'm the swingman... of spook! No, I really have to get going. I just wanted to say congrats on the VEB gig, and, ah, I'll be haunting you later. The phone call was from inside the house, and all that. Take care.
Thanks, man.
5. Stu Pomeranz, second round, 2003
| YEAR | AGE | LG | GS | IP | K | BB | HR | ERA |
| 2003 | 18 | R | 3 | 15 | 14 | 4 | 2 | 6.14 |
| 2004 | 19 | A | 17 | 101 | 88 | 25 | 10 | 3.55 |
Stu Pomeranz was a weird, weird prospect. This was probably his best year, but for the next two he made prospect lists because of one attribute, and one attribute alone: he was really young for his league. Here, at least, he was striking people out, but in 2005 he made an ill-advised leap to AA, where he stagnated for two years, and even though he was basically pitching like Joel Pineiro the whole time he made the lists because he was struggling in AA instead of thriving in the Midwest League.
I like Tyler Herron, who at this very moment is struggling to make the top thirty in Goold's public polls right now, more than I ever liked Pomeranz, but they're similar kinds of prospects. And this guy was fifth.
You'll notice we haven't seen a position player yet. These next five guys are what passed for depth underneath that great MV3 team. They're best taken all at once.
6. Swingman with a minor league innings streak
7. Utility infielder
8. Inexplicably successful slugger with no minor league track record
9. Toronto Blue Jays talisman and AAAA outfielder
10. LOOGY with a fastball that could go 95 mph but only if nobody was looking at it.
We've come a long way.
0 recs |
91 comments
|
Comments
Robots must have a different definiton of fun...
I pray our farm is never that bad again…Carmen Cali? C’mon!
"Baseball is dull only to dull minds." - Red Barber
by nomar34 on Dec 30, 2008 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you're my assistant writer at Future Redbirds
and you don’t remember the immortal Crazy Legs Lemanczyk!?!? Turn in your credentials at once.
Hyperventilating prospect geek
Future Redbirds
by erik on Dec 30, 2008 9:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Lemanczyk
should have been listed twice. He was also the Best Nickname giver. Now where did I save that article that said he was instrumental in giving us “Joey Bombs”.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 30, 2008 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lotta gems in that list
I’m not gonna discuss the best fastball, but take a look at our best defensive catcher: Jason Motte.
Also, Brendan Ryan for best athlete? oy ve.
by TICY on Dec 30, 2008 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love
best defensive catcher: Jason Motte
by stl522 on Dec 30, 2008 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw Motte play as a catcher
He was simply unreal. He put Molina’s arm to shame (Molina for the record is “my boy”). I’ve never seen anything like his fastball to 2nd base, nothing close. Unfortunately they probably could’ve DHed him with a relief pitcher and had a better hitter in the lineup.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 30, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as it was Mark Worrel
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Dec 31, 2008 8:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good news, everyone!
This thread also comes in suppository form.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Dec 31, 2008 8:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One of my fav gems -
Best Control – Brad Thompson! But, Best Curveball – Adam Wainwright, still true 4 years later.
by cardsgirl95 on Dec 30, 2008 10:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, look on the bright side......
six out of ten (that’s 60% for you non math folks!) at least made it to the big leagues.
Dan Up, this might make you crazy, but Lambert does have a chance to be the Tigers 12th or 13th man on the staff for 2009……the haunting will continue.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Dec 30, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Notice how pitching-heavy this list is?
I think that was part of the problem. TINSTAAPP. Too many pitchers splatter their arms on the way to the Show. So it is, so it has been, so it ever shall be, world without end, amen.
One of the big reasons for the turnaround is a much more balanced approach to drafting.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 30, 2008 11:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
plus they were all the same type of medeocre pitchers
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Dec 30, 2008 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Largest Bonuses in Club History
I know that was a 2005 article, but has anyone came close to getting a bonus like Drew’s or even Ank’s? If not , I would like to see a chance taken and that change after the upcoming draft. Time to say “Screw the slotting system!”
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 30, 2008 11:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I had hopes
that Selig had some scandalous pictures of Walt Jocketty and that had kept us from going over-slot. So far, those hopes are dashed.
by liam on Dec 30, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thank goodness jocketty is gone though
taveras to a 2 year deal? Yowza.
by azruavatar on Dec 30, 2008 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be worse
Hard to figure that he was the throw in on Houston’s disastrous Jason Jennings trade…
by liam on Dec 30, 2008 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That trade didn't turn out too well for the Rockies either......
Jason Hirsch was the center piece and he’s been hurt for what seems like forever; at least they still own the rights to him.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Dec 30, 2008 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They got the good year of Taveras,
and the other Buchholz kid for a guy who could already be out of baseball.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Dec 31, 2008 8:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So
Who turns this deal down: Rick Porcello for Pete Kozma and Joel Pineiro with us eating 6 million? (That’s basically the trade we made)
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 30, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would turn it down
I am not convinced that Porcello is everything he was made out to be, and did you see the bonus he got? It is not comparable at all imo.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Dec 30, 2008 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would too
Kozma’s a valuable guy to have around, looking forward to seeing what he does this season.
by liam on Dec 30, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hence the eat 6 million
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 30, 2008 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit turns that down without a second thought.
This doesn’t say anything negative about Koz or Pinata. Porcello is just that good.
by StanTheManFan on Dec 30, 2008 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the Cardinals will never
under this current regime spend big money any high school pitcher, so why do we keep belaboring it?
Hyperventilating prospect geek
Future Redbirds
by erik on Dec 30, 2008 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just pointing out how ridiculous a choice on the opportunity costs we really made
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 30, 2008 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think i’d save the label “ridiculous” for when porcello wins 20 in the show and kozma peaks as a cesar izturis clone. when a guy has a below-average k-rate, i gotta wonder just how much his stuff his real and how much of it is hype.
by greenback06 on Dec 30, 2008 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
6. Swingman with a minor league innings streak
7. Utility infielder
8. Inexplicably successful slugger with no minor league track record
9. Toronto Blue Jays talisman and AAAA outfielder
10. LOOGY with a fastball that could go 95 mph but only if nobody was looking at it.
so we are talking about THompson, Ryan, Gall?, Heatherererererer, Johnson?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Dec 30, 2008 11:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I believe No. 8 is
Chris “Daddy’s Boy” Duncan.
Kindly visit my Webbed log.
by Anonymous Communist on Dec 30, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i prefer to call him
chris “22 HR, .952 OPS, one ring in 2006” duncan.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 30, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looking forward to calling him something new
I’m very optimistic about him for 2009.
by liam on Dec 30, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if only he could play second base...
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 30, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No disrespect meant...
Just a nod to this freakishly awesome and wildly inventive post. I wonder what happened to that guy…
Kindly visit my Webbed log.
by Anonymous Communist on Dec 30, 2008 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard he turned into a pinko
Hyperventilating prospect geek
Future Redbirds
by erik on Dec 30, 2008 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so
are those real band names? cool either way
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 31, 2008 1:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So that's where you--
I mean, that guy, got to. Good to see, uh, that guy.
by DanUpBaby on Dec 31, 2008 2:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
click Azru's link
and the mystery shall be no more
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 30, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Watch 1982 WS Game 7
free online at mlb.com
It’s streaming so I’m catching it mid-game. Great diving stab by Herr to end the inning there. 3-1 Brewers in the 6th
by enoscountry on Dec 30, 2008 12:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
shame we didn't know about this in advance
would have been cool to set up a game thread.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 30, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would MLB do something fan friendly like that?
This is one of my great annoyances: MLB’s control of its video vault.
They let me know about the clearance items sale three times, but no emails about the streaming of Game 7 from 1982? This is frustrating.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Dec 30, 2008 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
i mean, I pay $4/month to get a text message for “stl cardinals alerts”, and they message me every time some no-name free agent signs a contract with some team other than the cardinals, so you’d think they’d tell us about something actually cardinals-related like this.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 31, 2008 3:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Perez
was drafted in 2006.
Kindly visit my Webbed log.
by Anonymous Communist on Dec 30, 2008 12:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
oh, btw
is the title a tip of the hat (fag of the finger) to Futurama?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Dec 30, 2008 12:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
lol
*WAG of the finger
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Dec 30, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i hope not
Because this is actually good news.
by Evilfrog on Dec 30, 2008 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This makes me sound dumb, but
How do I add a signature to my posts?
by Toddius on Dec 30, 2008 3:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
you can just sign the screen
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 30, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 31, 2008 1:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Click on your name tag in the upper left by the SBNation logo..
…It should take you to a screen with all of your past posts and whatnot…Then click on EDIT PROFILE. That should work anyway.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 30, 2008 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's almost January 1st
and
Chris Duncan
Skip Schumaker
Ryan Ludwick
Rick Ankiel
Joe Mather
Colby Rasmus
are all still in the organization. The lack of activity on that front is troublesome.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 30, 2008 6:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Duncan
He is not going anywhere until he proves he is healthy.
These are all legit MLB out fileders..
Duncan (depending on health…. I am sure the Cards and other teams want to see his health proven)
Barton
Schumaker
Ludwick
Ankiel
Mather
Rasmus
I could handle any of those 7 in the outfield and not feel bad at all, which goes to show they need to do something to clear up some space in the outfied.
I agree Hardcore, I am surprised something has not been done, maybe something is in the works.
by ICbirdfan on Dec 30, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops, I forgot Barton
that makes it worse. Even more OF’ers to play with.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 30, 2008 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
how many OF's are in Memphis right now that can play in the bigs?
2? i’d really like to know what the Cards are thinking here. we’ve got way, wayyy to many guys in the OF
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Dec 30, 2008 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The way it shapes up
Not going to Memphis:
-Ankiel
-Ludwick
-Skippy
-Duncan (injured though)
Tweener guys:
-Mather
-Razzle
-Barton
Probably should be playing AAA (possibly blocked):
- Jones
- Jay
Organizationally, we’ve got 4 OF spots in St. Louis and 3 to fill in Memphis. If no moves are made, we are looking at:
St. Louis
-Ankiel
-Ludwick
-Skippy/Mather platoon
Memphis
-Barton
-Razzle
-Jay
Springfield
-Jones
Which means, Razzle doesn’t play up and we didn’t really do anything except punt 2008 to 2009.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 30, 2008 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Some combination of Freese Craig and Wallace
will see time in the Memphis outfield as things currently stand.
by azruavatar on Dec 30, 2008 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
pretty sure mather can't go to memphis
IIRC he’s out of options, and I just can’t see how he’d ever clear waivers.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 31, 2008 3:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
too many
i worry our “plan” to trade an outfielder isn’t going to get us much, certainly going to be more difficult unless dunn and burrell sign soon (and maybe even manny). if their slow placement reflects an expectation of declining prices, then maybe ankiel’s cost comes down. just seems there are too many outfielders available and the two that have been discussed a lot (cd and ank) are both coming off injuries, and i doubt will be on anybody’s wish list. i’m worried that only luddy will be attractive to others.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Dec 30, 2008 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I think Ludwick, and perhaps Schumaker to a savvy GM, will be the only ones of interest… well, correction, I think people would be interested in Barton and Mather also
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 31, 2008 1:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lets trade Ankiel to Seattle for Jose Lopez
or to Anaheim for Howie Kendrick….
by Czechguardsman on Dec 30, 2008 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
for that first one to happen
I think you first have to make the Seattle GM go BSI
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 31, 2008 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BSI??
Baker Street Irregulars? Bible Society of India? Body Substance Isolation? Big Sky Institute? Bundesamt fur Sicherheit in der Informationstechnik? Can’t figure this one out, no help on the Web….well, really, too mnay options, none of which seem to jibe.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 31, 2008 1:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bat Shit Insane
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 31, 2008 1:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh,
ahhhhh. NIGI.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 31, 2008 1:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Found BSI =
Bat Shit Insane at urbandictionary.com, guess I’ll have to bookmark that.
There was Gibson in the Reds' dugout, visibly manhandling about three Reds and tossing them bodily out of the dugout and onto the field...He was the toughest athlete mentally I ever saw, and the greatest competitor. JACK BUCK
by ISawGodInGibby'sRightArm on Dec 31, 2008 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Ankiel and all
but that contract Lopez is signed to(09-1.2M,10-2.3M,11-4.5M club option), and that kind of production out of your second baseman, if that were to happen Zduriencik would have to have his brain replaced by a Cardinal loving alien or something. I suppose stranger things have happened though.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 31, 2008 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
of course it is possible I am overvaluing Lopez
I will admit to doing that sometimes
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 31, 2008 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you are
Lopez’s career wOBA is just .305. Last year it was barely passable at .328. He is basically the same player as Greene. Low OBP, plus defense and with positional adjustments they are about the same, and good power for MIF.
by vivaelpujols on Jan 1, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda miss...
upper deck schtek and good ol’ luther hackman; I liked those guys, they were decent relievers. weren’t jimmy journell and carmen cali supposed to be the next dynamic duo to close games out for the cards? ahh, the good old times. actually remembering these guys makes me feel old and I’m only 22.
check out my blog: Redbird Ramblings
Brad Penny or Bust...scratch that, I'll take odalis perez now, that's how bad it's gotten.
waiting for the 2009 season to begin and colby rasmus to patrol centerfield!
by cards4life on Dec 30, 2008 7:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I miss upper deck stech
specifically for that nickname. He and Ray the K were just named to play the wrong positions.
by DanUpBaby on Dec 30, 2008 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
If we don’t beat 3/36 for Derek Lowe with our awesome infield defense I’m gonna freak out.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 30, 2008 10:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
wow
that’s got to mean the Japanese pitchers aren’t going to come anywhere near the Kuroda contract.
by DanUpBaby on Dec 30, 2008 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Lowe takes 3/36
Sheets will sign for 1/$4 M, I’m certain of it.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 30, 2008 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be an absolute steal
Like, the greatest steal ever if he manages to post a year similar to this past one.
Eric Seidman (LINK) at FanGraphs figured Sheets was about a 3.25 WAR player at about $16 million per. That would be signing for a quarter of that. If that was really all it would take (and if it is what the hell is his agent doing?) and the Cards didn’t snatch him up, I’d kill.
But, the old saying goes “If if’s and but’s were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas.” We shall have to see.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 31, 2008 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It isn't going to happen
just like there is no way Lowe only takes a 3/$36 M deal in the same offseason C.C. Sabathia signs a contract for eleventybillion dollars.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 31, 2008 1:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that link isn't working joker. acutally is it, but you gotta sign up to read the story & i'm not doing that.
care to give us the cliff notes?
and sorry about the fanpost on the same subject dan. i should have known you’d be all over this
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Dec 30, 2008 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically
Mets have “offered” 3/36, there’s an unknown number of teams in the running, Lowe/Boras are “looking” for 5/90.
He’s well worth 3/45, 4/60 (halfway between the “offer” and “looking” in terms of AAV and years) is probably what it’s gonna take.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 30, 2008 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they still want 5/90? in this market? goooooood luck with alllll that
no way in hell they get 5/90. i’d go 3/40, maybe 3/42-45 but that’s pushing it for a guy with unknown lower back issues.
thanks for the notes dude
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Dec 30, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And no way in hell anyone gets him 3/36...
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 30, 2008 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
My biggest complaint with any Derek Lowe deal is the fact that his reported asking price was 4-5 years at $15-16 per…3/$36 million sounds more palatable to me. Maybe it’s worth a shot.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 31, 2008 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and there are more coming behind them....
I am not sure I would trust Barton as an everyday starter, but I would take any of the other 3 as a starting outfield if they were healthy. The other “problem” is that within the next year or two they are going to need to find big league at bats for stav, jay, jones and robinson, not to mention it would be nice to slide one of craig/freese/wallace to the outfield to clear up the 3rd base log jam. Obviously all 11 of them can’t be the outfield of the future.
Rasmus- has to stay for the next 6 years- I would love to see what the cardinals would look like with sizemore leading off, hopefully the comparisons are correct.
Ludwick- Hang on to him as long as he is cost controlled, but he will probably only have 1 shot at a big pay day b/c of his age, at which point we have to let him go.
Ankiel- Man crush aside, I don’t think we can justify paying him what he is worth in 2010 and beyond
Mather- If he plays like he proved he can in the minors I think a reserve spot this year, then replacing ank next year as a starter.
Shumaker-- would love to keep him as a 4th outfielder, but he’s proven he deserves to start somewhere.
Barton-could use a little polish (let him play everyday in AAA), but I think he will be in the same place skip is in 3 years (too good to keep on the bench, not good enough to start)
jones- If he keeps up what he has been doing, I think he could take over after ludwick departs
Robinson-- I think he has potential to compete with jones to replace ludwick when time comes, or force mather out of his spot.
Jay-- skip again???- how many good defensive outfielders that hit for good average and have limited power and limited speed can one system have?
Duncan- I think everyone knows the consensus here, prove he’s healthy send him to the American league
Stav- Probably has a good chance at being a league average outfielder, luckily I don’t think we have to settle for a league average.
henley- still a few years away….hang on to him/trade him, could go either way but he is a long way from the top and it’s nice to have the luxury of a quality prospect as your 12th best outfielder.
Other to keep in mind: Marti, hill, craig, freese, wallace, and a dozen other prospects in the lower levels of the system
Long story short- there is plenty of outfield depth, and we can’t start everybody…
Is it weird that I would rather the payroll be more like the Marlins than the Yankees?
by ForesterShane on Dec 30, 2008 11:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
My current solutions:
If the Cardinals want Rasmus in AAA:
Ludwick plays every day that he doesn’t need a break. Skip and Ankiel play against righties. Mather and Barton play against lefties. Duncan gets healthy in AAA.
If the Cardinals want Rasmus with the big league club:
Ludwick, Ankiel, and Rasmus play every day that they don’t need a break. Skip and Mather play every day that someone does need a break.
by stlfan on Dec 31, 2008 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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