We're # 8!
by gdm426 on Dec 30, 2008 1:58 AM EST
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Printthe Cardinals minor league system is #8 according to Baseball America.
so I asked the esteamed VEB readers, what does this ranking mean? i assume it's good right? it's shocking to me that just a few seasons ago they were 30th, and now suddenly they are 8th. according to the article it's not just Colby that's pulled the Cards out of the basement. but players like YP, Apple Sauce, Walrus & even the oft mentioned but realy seen Daryl Jones. is the Cards system this good, or is this simply an overreaction by the good folks at Baseball America?
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that is how we know Wallace is gonna be good
hasn’t made it to the bigs, yet already has a nickname that will stick
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 30, 2008 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
starting pitching is still a big weakness
i would feel a whole lot better about our system if we could develop starting pitching. having all-star caliber players at several positions is obviously great but they aren’t nearly as valuable as young 1-2 starting pitching.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
I think that Jess Todd is a future 1 or 2
He doesn’t have the great stuff that many other prospects have, but he has excellent control, gives up very few home runs and has a high strikeout rate. Plus he has only been a starter for a short amount of time meaning he should improve.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 30, 2008 6:31 AM EST up reply actions
He will destroy us all!
But he is not a 1 or 2 by any means. He is young (22), and I loved watching this guy strike out 5 of 6 during the Texas League ASG at Hammons Field, not to mention carrying a sub-2 ERA for seemingly forever, but I don’t see him being a front end starter. His 2.97 AA ERA this year is deceiving; his FIP was 4.22. We’ll just have to wait and see how he holds up in AAA this season.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 30, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
It makes me feel better..
That at least we have prospects at other positions (3B, OF) that we can trade to acquire some SP prospects. Whether we do it or not is another story, but at least we have the opportunity to unlike in the past
by wizardofozzie on Dec 30, 2008 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
A few drafts can make a difference
What’s most remarkable though is how FAST the Cardinals returned to farm system respectability. Management should remember that. Plunder your system, and you’re back at 30th before you know it.
well
i’d rather be 30th on baseball america’s prospect list and win 105 and then 100 games and then win a world series, than be #8 (or even #1) on baseball america’s prospect list and finish 4th in my division.
There’s gotta be a balance, obviously, but winning the big league games is the only thing that matters.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
Of course
if we had possessed a decent farm system at that time we might have been able to trade for one more player and actually won multiple World Series. We did trade some guys, but we were mostly ranked low because we had a very poor (if any) draft strategy. Maybe we can have it both ways in a few years and be good at every level.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Exactly
Farm system is only there to help us win. I’m ok with trading it away if we win like we did during the MVP years. I think the big mistake they made last year was not quickly realizing they had a chance to make playoffs and make a key trade early to push us over the top. Would have happily traded 10 places in the BA rankings for a playoff spot last year.
Memphis and Springfield
It was nice to see Memphis finally have a winning season in 2008. The AAA Redbirds had been so bad that Memphis was considering not renewing its PDC with St. Louis. Even though Springfield didn’t make the Texas League playoffs, the AA Cards were competitive in both the first and second halves.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
I'm excited about the upcoming season for Springfield
I go to college there and it is just down the road from campus. I just got into researching all of the prospects and stuff and now I can’t wait to go watch them play. Our minor league stadiums ( AAA and AA at least) are very nice and the teams are fun to watch.
by wizardofozzie on Dec 30, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
Springfield
I’ll actually get a chance to go there this July on my way to Kansas City. I’ve seen Springfield play a couple of times at Dickey-Stephens Park in North Little Rock.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
Memphis
Living in Des Moines, I always try to make the I-Cubs, Memphis series. It’s been fun to see Wainwright, Junior Spivey, Ankiel, Skippy, etc. come through. But now the Redbirds are fielding competitive clubs with youngsters who may actually evolve into MLB mainstays. What’s more, I await in anticipation of those at the lower levels—something I couldn’t always say.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
What Are the Rooting Interests in Des Moines?
In Memphis, it’s about 75% Cardinals, 15% Braves, 5% Cubs, and 5% for other teams. I would think that Des Moines would have more Cubs fans than Cardinals fans, but I don’t have any idea what the difference in numbers is.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
I don’t know that there is another organization in baseball with as much projectable big-league talent in its upper minors right now. Colby Rasmus, Allen Craig, John Jay, David Freese, and Shane Robinson are all ticketed for the bigs, in my opinion, and Tyler Greene and Jarrett Hoffpauir may still emerge in some capacity.
#29
Carp or Colemen?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
Haha
Jason Schmidt. You’re the first person ever to ask though. If I wasn’t already intent on being a Giants fan in my next life, I might be a Cardinals fan.
Shouldn't that be in blue...
…Dodger blue?
Sorry, just had to give you some good-natured ribbing. I’m sure his phsyical status makes his signing with the Dodgers far less painful.
Thanks for coming over and chiming in.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
My take
Seems to me that the Cards have stopped shooting for the stars and are taking very projectible talent. Not wasting picks on possible big wins. It strikes me that the new formula is all about developing average major leaguers and as many as they can — presumably hoping they can either develop the occasional top tier talent or hire it in free agency.
Kozma strikes me as the kind of guy who they think projects out to an average major league shortstop. Not very exciting, but fill your roster with a lot of average, have a good #1 and #2 starter, play good defense, sign a big star once in a while and you can probably make the playoffs three years out of five.
A lot of the pitching they have drafted recently feels like that as well.
I think it is smart. Lot of uncertainty in these “raw talents”.
the problem I have with that is the same problem I have with your comment above
I suppose some people might be alright with developing a bunch of average major league players, signing a big star every once in a while, and hope to make the playoffs three years out of five, I think that is just being okay with mediocrity with the hope you get lucky in the playoffs. Develop star players and you at least give yourself the fighting chance to dominate. I suppose this is just another reason I don’t like the “let’s just be good enough to make the playoffs” argument. That goes back to the post above, is it really worth it to trade top talent just to push us into the playoffs when it was evident that we did not have the team to make a run in the playoffs? I would prefer to keep the talent that can help makes us dominant instead of just mediocre. In other words…we should have the balls to go all in when talking about the amateur draft. Take a big chance with the high reward talent.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
In the old days I agree
It used to be that when you won the pennant you went straight to World Series. Then for a while it was only one round of playoffs. Now it’s a crap shoot. The best team only has a random chance of getting to World Series. If you make the playoffs off now as the eighth best team in baseball (or even worse depending on the divisional dynamics), you can still win the ring (witness our last WS win). I’m not sure shooting to be a little bit better (i.e a 95 win team instead of a 90 win team) buys you anything and it undoubtedly costs a lot more because those extra five wins cost a lot of coin.
I would think that the number-crunchers could make a convincing case that this is the best strategy on a pure risk/reward analysis.
I personally would like to be like the Yankees, but it’s not rational for anyone but them to do that.
In writing, making the playoffs 3 out of 5 sounds pretty uninspiring, but its pretty hard to do. I certainly don’t think it is mediocre. In fact, I think the concept that “average” is mediocre is the seam that the Cardinals are trying to exploit. If we had had an average bullpen and an average MIF last year, we would have been in playoffs.
Our MIF and bullpen were good enough
Kennedy and Izturiz were both so good defensively that it offset there pathetic offense. Plus Miles and Lopez provided plenty of offense. Our bullpen despite the blown saves was actually a solid group especially towards the end of the year when Izzy, Flores and Jimenez weren’t pitching. The blown saves were bad but our Pythagorean record was only 1 win more and we won a lot of the games that we blew.
The problem was our starting pitching. We had two aces who combined to pitch 150 or so innings (Carp and Wainright), then we got 200 above average innings from Lohse and nearly 200 above average innings from Wellemyer. After that we had way too many starts from Piniero, Looper, Boggs, Parisi, Thompson etc.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 30, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
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