Boxing Day Briefs
[Sorry for the delay, everybody--there's been no internet access at the Up household for most of the day.]
Derrick Goold seems to have a direct line into the recent bout of commenter angst re: the Albert Pujols contract. I haven't been able to get quite as worried about it as a lot of people have, because of its remoteness, but the contract I think about when I think about Albert Pujols in 2011 is the one Ichiro signed with the Mariners mid-2007.
What they have in common, I think, is the value they provide to their team off the baseball field, which in Ichiro's case led to a contract that was both really generous--I doubt he'd have seen a five year, $90 million deal outside of Seattle--and also particularly doable for his team. Ichiro's worth more to the Mariners, because of marketing, because of the blow it would be to their fanbase to lose an icon, than he would be to anybody else; Albert Pujols is worth a ton to everybody, but he's worth the most to the Cardinals, as the recent teeth-gnashing three years from his free agency date shows.
I think that gives them not only a mandate to resign him, but a competitive advantage. They'll be able to offer him more money than anybody else, non-Yankees/Sawx division, because they have to. As a last word on the subject, for now--because we're too far away to have much to talk about--I think it's fair to say that we have an idea of where the $15 million Chris Carpenter's going to make in 2011 will be going in 2012. Better keep developing those pitchers.
#
If he's willing to play in Japan I, personally, will act as his agent. I cannot think of a better player to star in Mr. Baseball 2.
0 recs |
40 comments
Comments
I wish I could argue...
…because, let’s face it, baseball players are making too much money, but I can’t. I agree with you completely. Albert is worth too much to St. Louis for them not to pay him a ridiculous amount of money. He puts fans in the seats. Pay the man, make him a lifetime Cardinal, retire his number between Ozzie’s and Stan’s and build a bigger exhibit to him than a-rod in the Hall of Fame.
by sbentley on Dec 26, 2008 12:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Baseball players make less vs players in other sports. I believe there was a study done and the amount of revenue that baseball takes in and pays out to the players is less than 50, whereas for instance the NFL pays i think around 60+ of the revenue it takes in back to its players.
There’s a saying that says that there is a difference between rich and wealthy.
Baseball players may be rich but the people who can afford to pay them are the wealthy.
by madeintaiwan on Dec 27, 2008 4:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Close
http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/60965
"Major League Baseball players received about 52 percent of leaguewide revenue last season, said MLB’s Rob Manfred, which would appear to leave baseball players with the lowest percentage of revenue among the Big Four team sports.
Under their respective collective-bargaining agreements, NHL players received 56.7 percent last season, NBA players about 57 percent and NFL players about 59 percent."
Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro
by DiscoJer on Dec 27, 2008 4:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there anything Fangraphs CAN'T do?
Position Player WAR totals for 2008.
Best outfielder = Ryan Ludwick
2nd Best outfileder = Skip Schumaker
Rick Ankiel = Aaron Miles
Kyle Lohse and Todd Wellemeyer = should never hold a bat
Serious question about that last pair though — Should we devalue pitchers in the NL if they are truly terrible at hitting. Statistically, those two cost the team nearly 2 full wins because of how crappy they hit.
by azruavatar on Dec 26, 2008 2:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
into the cage
for the winter
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Dec 26, 2008 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Wishful thinking?
Who knows, maybe those guys will see what Looper did last offseason and attempt to follow suit. Looper said he was embarrased by his showing at the plate in 2007, so last offseason he dedicated a lot of his time to improving himself in that facet of the game. He showed up last year and was respectable at the plate for a pitcher.
We can only hope that Lohse and Welly have that same drive to improve themselves and the team any way they can.
That being said, I’d be extremely happy if they just repeated their performances on the mound from last year.
The thought that I have is that the season is over. And that everybody in the game; a fan, a coach, a player, a manager, front office, scouts...surrender. They say, "that's enough," especially after a game like this. But then Christmas comes, New Years, contracts are signed, trades are made, free agents are signed; and then baseball, like the rose beneath the April snow will force it's way to the front again. And we'll have the fever once more.
- The immortal Jack Buck
by Jack618 on Dec 26, 2008 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Chicks do dig the longball Greg.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Dec 26, 2008 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
devaluing pitchers- yes.
A pitcher’s hitting ability is extremely underrated in the NL, I think. Then again, if you look around at other teams, it’s pretty typical to see pitchers worth a negative win or more with the bat.
OTOH, those “dollar” numbers seem to be completely fubar. I’d LOVE it if one of our competitors fielded a team by signing free agents at those prices. aaron Miles, $8.5M? C’mon. And if the braves want to give me Kelly Johnson and $1M for Skip, I’ll take two.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 26, 2008 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
its not a predictive measure as i understand it
just puts a dollar amount on what their performance was worth.
by FunkeeC on Dec 26, 2008 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They aren't fubar
just how much teams paid for that performance in free agency those years. Miles’ true talent isn’t what he did last year, so only someone very stupid would pay him that.
As for pitcher hitting, there’s a 1-win spread among the population in talent IIRC. Not sure if that means people over- or underrate it.
by haltz on Dec 26, 2008 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pujol's contract
I don’t think Pujols is going anywhere. He will be 32 at the end of his current contract, and so I don’t think an 8 year contract is out of the question. At 8 years I don’t see him turning down a Cardinals offer that avg between $20-25m a year. I know there is a lot of talk about 30m a year, but the Yankees won’t be in the market for a 1st baseball then and I don’t think Albert will want to be a DH.
I just don’t think Albert turns down a 8 year/ $180m deal. Do you?
by thoran85 on Dec 26, 2008 3:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If they wait until 2012 to re-sign him
I hope they don’t offer him an 8Y$180M either, especially if that land mine of an elbow hasn’t reared it’s ugly head yet. He’s a great hitter and should age well playing first base, but that’s a lot of money over a lot of years to be committing to someone who would be coming out of his prime — even if he is the greatest right handed hitter in a generation. If it’s structured in a frontloaded deal I’d like it a lot more, and a mid-loaded deal like A-Rod’s would be totally out of question.
Now, if they were to re-up him to that deal after next year, i’d be all for that type of contract at the length and years.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Dec 26, 2008 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely.
no question about it. Why would he take Texieria money when he has proved himself to be far superior. If I’m him, I’d be insulted by the offer. And don’t forget, Pujols knows this is a business and he is not going to accept below market value. Just look at the first time he went through contract negotiations.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 26, 2008 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
JOCK ELLEEYOTE!!!
Thank you danup, I have now decided on my movie rental for the evening. Tom Selleck is a great american.
by thewizard3 on Dec 26, 2008 3:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
LAST SEASON I led this team in ninth-inning doubles in the month of August!
Jimmy Ballgame needs to grow a sweet mustache, move to first base, and play in Japan. That would be awesome.
by mattybobo on Dec 26, 2008 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
got any naked pics of your wife? no? do you want some?
C L A S S I C
true story, i tried that line in high school & got a runner picked off at 1st. i crap you not.
happy boxing day to our wacky friends up north
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Dec 26, 2008 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It begins and ends with A-Rod
Tex is NOT the benchmark. And I think he’ll be worth every penny. I hope the Cardinals pay.
by ews on Dec 26, 2008 3:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It's pretty clear
at least to me what the plan is. Taking money they’ve been traditionally spending at the hot corner and getting it developed so they can shift more to 1b.
And I like the approach they’ve gone with the 3b, it gives us glut, but having 4 guys who can be projected ML is a nice thing.
I hope they shift that mentality to 2b next. Then load up on as much pitching around the 2b picks.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Dec 26, 2008 4:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees overpaid
The comparisons between Teixeira and Pujols really only illustrate how badly the Yankees overpaid rather than how much Pujols might be worth. Pujols might be twice as valuable as Teixeira, but that doesn’t mean his contract should be for twice as much — Teixeira should have received less. He’s a great player and relatively young, but 22.5M annually? He’s not ARod (or Pujols).
I would also argue that this contract, by effectively taking the Yankees out of the bidding for Pujols should he become a free agent, lowers the amount Pujols could expect on the free market. The Yanks shouldn’t need a 1st baseman with Teixeira in the fold. And if they do, who is going to be willing to take that contract off their hands? Or Burnett’s. Or Sabathia’s. Even they don’t have an endless revenue stream (just close). Without the Yankees in the bidding, nobody other than Boston & maybe the other NY team would be able to offer silly money for him. Without the Yankees to have to bid against, though, why would they go to crazy levels? All of which, I hope, ultimately keeps Albert in St Louis.
by chris13 on Dec 26, 2008 4:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
if they wanted tex
they weren’t going to have to overpay to an extent just because of the market itself.
Balt and the Nats if not more teams were looking for a franchise player themselves and for the Yankees to get him they had to pay a reasonable amount, even if he’s not a franchise player to them.
I don’t think it was a bad purchase for them, but I don’t think it has anything to do with Albert.
As we speak Albert continues to build more ties in St. Louis and as recently as his MVP award spoke of wanting to be a lifetime Cardinal. We need to stay competitive and when he’s ready to discuss contract we need to be willing to listen and comply if reasonable.
I wish he got that elbow fixed in ‘07 so we would be in a clearer position and I wouldn’t have hesitation. But elbow or not, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Albert may be expensive, but in the context of the club and revenue, I’d be willing to bet he pays for himself.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Dec 26, 2008 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
tex was/should be worth his contract value for the next couple years
the big question on any contract of this length will be how well does he hold up over his decline years.
by FunkeeC on Dec 26, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That contract is
on the high side for the market in general, but wins are worth a lot to the Yankees.
by haltz on Dec 26, 2008 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yankees = Money
If the yanks want Albert, nothing will stand in their way. It just so happens that when Albert goes into free agency, the nationals or orioles may be just coming into contention. They would probably take the largest portion of Tex’s contract at that time. There is also a definite possibility that Albert may be ready to dh by that time. His hamstrings and throwing elbow could be big problems by then. It’s very hard to predict that far into the future. I think that if the team re-ups Albert this year or next they will probably get him, if not the yankees will.
victim of the sixties
by victim of the sixties on Dec 26, 2008 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"orioles may be just coming into contention."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You evidently haven’t paid much attention to my local nine in recent years.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 27, 2008 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But the Yankees could choose to be $#$%# and offer him something completely ridiculous
that he could not possibly turn down like 13 years and 450 million. Laugh now, but I see it coming. And the Red Sox, Giants, Mets, or Angels might get bold and throw a bloated offer his way.
by Czechguardsman on Dec 27, 2008 2:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
were*, -weren't
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Dec 26, 2008 4:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Puljos and baseball
Baseball is on a slippery slope… I love the Redbirds but since the strike I only follow them and no one else like I used too… Bud Selig is allowing the demise of baseball and that is sad for the sport… The Yankees are out of control and they are driving the price up… I hope we can keep Puljos for the rest of his career but I do not know how we can unless he is just that loyal… Maybe, just maybe he is… Give him a long-term deal now…
ShagOnSports
by ShagOnSports on Dec 26, 2008 10:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I bet the Cards retain him
As stated earlier, the Cards main potential competitors for Pujols probably won’t be all that interested. The Yankees will have Tex taking up 1B, and looking at their current squad they’ll undoubtedly have some aging ex-position player such as Posada or Jeter using the DH. As a huge Red Sox fan I can tell you that the current management is not keen on spending big bucks on free agents, and there have been rumors that they will never pursue a big ticket free agent again, instead building from the inside and spending their money locking up their homegrown players. Plus, their top prospect, Lars Anderson, is a 1B.
The only real competition for Pujols I could see would be the Mets, who presumably won’t still be using Carlos Delgado at 1B when 2012 rolls around.
All in all, I bet Pujols re-signs with the Cards for 8yr/220mil or something around there. But if he were to hit the open market, and the Yankees, Red Sox, and Mets all really wanted him, I wouldn’t be surprised to see 8yr/260mil.
by Gnick on Dec 26, 2008 10:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't even think there should be a debate
There is no way the Cardinals let Pujols walk. He generates too much revenue and contributes too much to the entire organization. You give the man a long and very generous contract and build around him.
I don’t know if this makes me a bad fan – but I would rather watch Pujols plus the bad news bears around him then a Pujols-less team. The man loves STL and he will want to stay, no doubt
by riotmute on Dec 26, 2008 11:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree
I would be very surprised if Albert leaves St. Louis… doesn’t seem like the type of person he is, and he’s live in the region for quite a while now.
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 26, 2008 11:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It's true
if there is a current player in baseball who would give that kind of home town discount, it would be Albert. A star player that plays his entire career with one team may very well be a thing of the past. This is one of my pet recurring themes, that baseball often mirrors real life. With so much wealth disproportionately distributed in the country, as well as baseball, it is wiping out the mid tier team’s ability to compete. At some point, if not already, the rest of the league must live off the yankee’s scraps. And even if the yanks haven’t won very much and their payroll is less than last year, they still spend around seventy million more than anyone else. A-rod makes almost as much as the entire marlin’s payroll. What this really means is that any team who develops a star player knows they will most likely lose him to the yanks. There may be no more Cal Ripkin’s or George Brett’s. Even if the yanks don’t win every year, this hurts fans so this hurts baseball.
victim of the sixties
by victim of the sixties on Dec 26, 2008 11:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Randy Johnson 1 year - $8 M
with San Fransisco. Seems like that would have been a great use of the originally slotted Fuentes money.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 27, 2008 12:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A nice Christmas un-present for us.
I hate regional preferences. I understand if a guy wants to go back to his hometown or if there’s some other family thing (was Springer the one whose kid has a medical issue?). But you just don’t ever see “player X prefers to pitch in the midwest” during the off-season, and that gets annoying.
by mattybobo on Dec 27, 2008 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols
I’m a big advocate of the Cards talking to Albert now about an offer. In effect cancelling his current contract and starting a new one. I think it would show Albert how important he is to the organization and how committed they are to him (if indeed they are). Let’s face it the man has been underpaid for a while, and if Albert isn’t paying attention to the skyrocketing salaries, I guarantee you his agent is (if he’s worth a dam). Plus there are more big salaries in the next few years, the one that jumps out at me, without looking, is Ryan Howard. Don’t know how many more years he has before he’s a free agent, but the way things are going with him (deserved or not) he’s going to get a big payday.
Loyal or not, I don’t think Albert will accept being the 2nd or 3rd highest paid 1st baseman. Hell he should be the highest paid player. Period.
So the mark for 1st baseman is about 22.5/yr. So if I were Pujol’s agent, if contracts we’re being discussed today, if you were not coming with 25-27 mil a yr, I’d end the conversation.
I’m sure Howard’s agent would probably do the same, ‘cause lets face it, chicks love the longball. Howards numbers don’t really compare to Pujols overall, but he has finished very favorably in the MVP standings, and he does bring a ton of homeruns (that’s pretty much all he brings, but for some that’s enough).
by AirForceCardsFan on Dec 27, 2008 1:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
howard
i doubt howard is quite in the class you are thinking, because i believe he wont be a free agent til after 2010, by which time he will be 31 years old (i was shocked to see that he is actually a few months older than albert)
now if he was like pujols, who started at 21, and was a free agent at 26? then yeah it would be an enormous contract
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.
by bigcardsfan5 on Dec 27, 2008 4:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by 




















