Inventing New Traditions

by abothecardinal on Dec 19, 2008 1:39 PM EST

Whenever an opposing player hits a home run it is natural to want to throw it back onto the field in disgust. But that is a Cubs tradition so that can be a problem. On the one hand you want to reject the homerun, on the other you don't want to "copy" the Cubs tradition.

I was thinking that throwing it out of the stadium would be an interesting twist. But there are a couple of wrinkles. Depending on where you are sitting, you may need the help of others to get it out of the stadium. The teamwork element makes it an even cooler idea, but I don't think stadium security would smile upon tossing a ball around in the stands... or over the wall for that matter. Setting the ball on fire, while also being very cool, would also get you tossed by security, and possibly arrested.

Any ideas? Also, this isn't restricted to opposing home run etiquette.

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Well, personally I would just keep it; free souvenir.

But I offer a possible solution; an official opposing team homerun ball wood-chipper. Machines that grind stuff into little bits are always fun, and we get to collectively take out our frustration at without sinking to the Cubs’ level and being way more clever.

by mattybobo on Dec 19, 2008 2:52 PM EST reply actions

I second this idea

and I am sure it wouldn’t be hard to get a sponsor for this event either

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 19, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions

What if a fan...

caught a memorable HR from an opposing player (someone’s 500th) and then just tosses it into a woodchipper? Would the player collect the remaining pieces of baseball, or just sub it out? If it was a HR critical to baseball history (5 HRs in one game) and all of the balls were shredded in the chipper, would the Hall of Fame collect the pieces to display in Cooperstown?

The wood chipper could also be useful for all of the broken bats in MLB these days. The ball boys could bring out wheelbarrows full of the broken bats and toss them into the chipper, and the Cardinals could sell “Baseball Mulch” to the fans. The extra income could increase the payroll by 100 million dollars easily, right?

by Jumsy on Dec 21, 2008 12:56 AM EST up reply actions

Just keep the ball.

Or if you don’t want it, give it to me.

Kindly visit my Webbed log.

by Anonymous Communist on Dec 19, 2008 2:57 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

Better idea....

You take the ball that you don’t want and give it to some kid who will appreciate it, along with probably beating the holy shit out of it for years to come in the backyard. He gets a souvenir from the game — you get the satisfaction of seeing a little kid light up and knowing that the ball is going to get trashed like any opposing team home run ball should.**

**Also applies to anyone over the age of 21 who catches any ball with a kid sitting in your section with his glove on…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Dec 19, 2008 3:33 PM EST reply actions 11 recs

absolutely

am I the only one in the world w/ young kids who would enjoy a real souvenir from a major league game? How selfish are people who throw the ball away rather than give it to a kid who would enjoy it and make good use of it. The tradition of throwing the ball back on the field — regardless of the fact that the Cubs’ fans do it — is so far beyond moronic it’s scarcely worthy of discussion. I have two kids who would love this souvenir. You can’t hardly go to a ballgame w/o sitting near a kid who would love a real home run ball and yet people throw them back on the field….why, again? It’s idiotic! Give it to a kid if you don’t want the ball.

by chuckb on Dec 19, 2008 9:18 PM EST up reply actions

I've got young kids

Relax dude. Some things are bigger than keeping a home run ball from a team you are rooting against.

If it were a tradition, and if I sat in a place where I could catch a home run ball, and if I did happen to catch one. I would give it to my kid to throw back. Which, if it were tradition, would, be way cooler than keeping it. I know that if that happened to me as a kid I would be much more proud of that than of having an enemy’s home run souvenir.

by abothecardinal on Dec 19, 2008 10:02 PM EST up reply actions

just because something is tradition

doesn’t mean that it isn’t moronic. Doing something just because it is the popular thing to do should be the definition of moronic.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 20, 2008 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

true

But doing something because it is traditional is not the same as doing something just because it is the popular thing to do.

The rites and rituals of a culture reflect, and also instill, the values of that culture. They are community rites, performed in public – everyone participates. Keeping a ball is all fine and good. But the moment stops there, with the individual. Doing something publicly, ritually, with the ball, is an exercise of communal identity and mission. Or can be, if the community recognized it as such.

by abothecardinal on Dec 20, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions

you make a good point

but I guess it all comes back to the fact that I just don’t really like people enough to do stuff based on a communal mission, excluding this place.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 20, 2008 3:29 PM EST up reply actions

I bet not.

Oh, I don’t know. I’d wager you participate in tons of stuff on a regular/ritual basis that would fall into that category. You just don’t realize you are doing it because it is so woven into the fabric of your life. Which is often the best way for that kind of thing to be done.

Also, for the Cubs fan, one doesn’t throw it back only for the sake of the community, but for himself. It is his turn, his moment to act as representative for all Cubs fans and demonstrate to the team they support, to the team they are rallying against, to themselves, and to the watching world what it is that they feel about what just happened there. It is a key moment in the life of the fans, and a huge moment in the life of the representative officiating the ritual. Much bigger than keeping a Jason LaRue homer. The story of what happened that day has more import, more force, more defining personal and communal history, than a ball on the shelf would. Look at it this way, if you had a choice between giving that to a kid, or giving him a souvenir, which would you choose. Or, if you put yourself in the place of that kid two years down the road, what would you wish would have happened to you?

by abothecardinal on Dec 20, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions

now I have to take back the "good point"

because I have no idea what you were getting at in that second paragraph. I just can’t agree that taking part in a silly tradition is better than giving a kid a ball that he will treasure for a much longer time. I think most little kids would love to have a homerun ball more than taking part in a ritual that they very likely do not understand.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 21, 2008 10:09 AM EST up reply actions

Fair enough

But, if you think of it as if it were already a tradition then they would understand it just as much as the tradition of keeping a home run ball.

by abothecardinal on Dec 21, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions

This thing you advocate

is done simply b/c it is the popular thing to do. It might have become also a “tradition” as a result, but it hasn’t ceased becoming the popular thing.

Moreover, your suggestion that people should throw the home run ball back in order to be “traditional” or to please all the others in the bleachers is similar to taking a toy or something of value and throwing it away rather than giving it to someone else. “You want it? Too bad. I’m throwing it in the garbage!” To you it’s being part of the larger community — as if your Cardinal-fandom rights would be stripped from you if you didn’t throw the ball away. To the kid, it’s a souvenir he’d remember for the rest of his life. It’s disappointing that people value being part of a tradition, or being “part of the larger community” (as you see it), more than doing something really nice and really special for someone else — particularly a kid.

Do what you want w/ the home run ball but remember — you’re also part of the larger community that is society. Are your Cardinal-fandom privileges really more important to you than how you treat others?

by chuckb on Dec 20, 2008 11:53 PM EST up reply actions

Wow

You’ve really missed the point. As in, you’re not even close to getting what I’m talking about. You’ve misinterpreted almost everything I’ve said and have engaged in the topic with a presupposition that runs counter to the idea to begin with, thereby making reasonable discussion impossible.

Oh well. I’m sure I did my part in not being clear enough. I’m glad y’all love your tradition of treasuring a home run ball from an opposing player.

by abothecardinal on Dec 21, 2008 4:43 PM EST up reply actions

I'm a dude?

and seem worked up about this? You’d be prouder of your son for throwing back the ball just to get some kudos from some drunk fans in the bleachers than you would be if he gave it to someone else who might really want it? That’s really one of the most selfish things I’ve ever heard.

by chuckb on Dec 20, 2008 11:46 PM EST up reply actions

I never said such a thing

Again, you’ve totally missed it.

by abothecardinal on Dec 21, 2008 4:43 PM EST up reply actions

not to sound stupid

but why is foursticks post green with an asterisk?

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Dec 20, 2008 4:04 AM EST up reply actions

this happens when they get more than some pre-set number of recommendations

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Dec 20, 2008 10:23 AM EST up reply actions

I'm 28 and I've never caught a game ball...

foul or home run…not even in BP. If I catch a ball I’m keeping it (unless my nephews are with me, then they get it.). If someday I catch another…then I’ll give it to a kid.

Sometimes I wonder,
"Why is that frisbee getting bigger?"

...and then it hits me!!

by cardzfanbub on Dec 20, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions

i'm even older

not by much, let’s say 3 years, and i too have never caught a ball of any kind. if i do, i’m keeping it. i don’t care if i have my nephews with me or not. i’ve always wanted one & if i catch one, it’s mine.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Dec 22, 2008 12:08 AM EST up reply actions

rec'd...

and furthermore, don’t be like that fat guy in Texas a few years back

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 19, 2008 4:03 PM EST reply actions

that was a reply to fourstick

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 19, 2008 4:03 PM EST up reply actions

what happened in texas?

by soccerfreak on Dec 19, 2008 4:17 PM EST up reply actions

Here's A Link for the Fallout of the Texas Incident

This happened in 2004 at a game between the Rangers and Cardinals in Arlington.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Dec 19, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions

that kid made out like a bandit

Smell the Glove

by emrfg8 on Dec 19, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions

I'd keep it.

There’s no way I’d throw it back. I’ve only once caught a ball…on a rebound…during batting practice.

by stlfan on Dec 19, 2008 10:34 PM EST reply actions

I understand where you are coming from

But if there was a tradition in your home stadium where you did something different, I bet you might feel differently. As it is now, why not keep it? But if we had a custom of tossing it over the wall, or in a wood chipper in the batter’s eye, I bet you might feel differently. Plus, no one can take away that you caught a ball. You don’t need the ball to own that achievement.

I probably would want to keep it myself. But I also worry that I’d regret that I didn’t do what I “ought” to have done and participated in the tradition of my team, following house rules and what not.

by abothecardinal on Dec 20, 2008 12:17 AM EST up reply actions

I dunno...

I always thought that the Cubs’ tradition was a really stupid one. I did not think this because everything Cubs is stupid, but because if I caught a ball…I’d want to keep it. It is a privilege to catch a ball. Not everyone ever gets that chance. It’s not like the NBA or something, where they need that ball to continue the game, there are dozens of balls saved up for that very purpose…losing the ball to a fan as a free souvenir.

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I’ll add that I hope there never becomes a tradition like this at Busch III or Busch IV or InBev I or any other stadium in STL so I can continue my pursuit of catching and keeping a ball without getting booed for doing so.

by stlfan on Dec 20, 2008 7:18 AM EST up reply actions

For many years,

I believed that fans at Wrigley thought it was a try-out. I saw them sitting in the bleachers all summer long, baking under the early afternoon sun and watching their pitchers and their playoff hopes get destroyed.
I’ll show you bums how to throw!
I imagined them mumbling to themselves as they heaved the baseball, with a mighty effort that can only be fueled by beer and brats, back toward the infield.
I now believe that I was the one evaluating talent on the Cubs behalf. They have had some pretty poor pitching staffs in days past.

If you like getting other fans involved with homerun traditions, people could pass the ball around, maybe a row or even a section, and everyone could sign it. Then you have an usher take it back to the player that hit it as a souvenir from the greatest fans in baseball. [Or have it delivered to the pitcher that gave it up, so a Jason Marquis(90 HR allowed in 98 games) type guy won’t feel left out of all the “sharing” that he so frequently contributes to.

by Beardsville Rockers on Dec 20, 2008 12:56 PM EST reply actions

At first read I was against it

But then I thought of your suggestions as if they were traditions. If this is what we did – what the fans and players (and ushers) expected form the moment. And I changed my mind. These would be great.

The downside of the first suggestion is that I imagine opposing players really trying hard to hit homers at Busch in hopes of adding to their collection of section/row autographed balls. I imagine too that there would be a sort of back room competition where players would try and get balls from deeper and deeper sections. This extra element of competition and reward might work against the home team.

Having the usher bring it to the home team pitcher, as you suggested, might work in our favor. But opposing hitters might play the same game. The only difference beng that their “prizes” would be displayed in the opposing pitchers’ lockers.

Anyway, both ideas are very creative and would add to the game experience.

by abothecardinal on Dec 20, 2008 11:29 PM EST up reply actions

I always thought the Cubs' tradition was idiotic

I mean if Pujols hits a grand slam at Wrigley and a true Cubs fan catches it, then throws it back, he may feel good in the moment when everyone was cheering “THROW IT BACK! THROW IT BACK!”

But, I always imagined a few minutes later the fan saying to himself “AH SHIT! What did I just do!? I threw a grand slam ball away that was hit by quite possibly one of the greatest players ever! I’m an idiot!”

Personally, if I were to catch a HR ball from A-Rod, Ryan Howard, or any other big time player for that matter, I really wouldn’t care what the “tradition” is. I’m sure people would think much more highly of me if I were to give it to a kid sitting near me, rather than burning the ball or tossing it.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Dec 20, 2008 5:33 PM EST reply actions

Sure

A home run ball like that carries with it an over-riding tradition. That is a ball you sell on ebay.

by abothecardinal on Dec 20, 2008 8:05 PM EST up reply actions

You can't tell in the photo

but my avatar pic is a shot I took while AP was signing a ball for me last year in Springfield. It’s my favorite and most cherished piece of sports memorabilia I own, and I would never want to sell it. So, if I catch a HR ball from him, or anyone for that matter, I’m going to keep it or give it to a youngster sitting close to me.

And because something carries “an overriding tradition” that means I should sell it on ebay? I would think that would be an even greater reason not to just hock a piece of sports memorabilia. But hey that’s just my opinion.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Dec 21, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions

I read it as the "over-riding tradition"

being the act of selling it on ebay. I don’t want to live in a world where the prevailing tradition is selling the cherished piece on ebay.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 21, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions

It was a joke.

I was kidding.

by abothecardinal on Dec 21, 2008 4:48 PM EST up reply actions

i don't know how common this knowledge is

but most of those drunks in the bleachers bring balls with them, and throw those balls onto the field, not the actual home run ball.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Dec 22, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions

I think these

types of rituals are silly and modes of groupthink. I’m not particularly fond of groupthink, so I tend to avoid these sheep-like modes of behavior, especially when said behavior is performed just for the sake of fitting in.

Unless I would be breaking the law, I always act with my conscience. So much simpler.

by spants on Dec 21, 2008 1:32 PM EST reply actions