Miles to go?
by chuckb on Dec 14, 2008 11:35 AM EST
in News
186 comments
Then Miles went out and had his best season last year. His slash lines of .317/.355/.398 were all career highs and he supplanted Kennedy as the regular 2B only to be supplanted himself after the acquisition of Felipe Lopez. It stands to reason that Miles is due for another raise this year, based on the fact that it’s his 3rd year of arbitration-eligibility and that he had such a good season last year. He might earn $2.5 or even $3 M in 2009. I’m under the assumption that Mo intends to do what he did last year – sign him to a contract for a little less than he would have received through arbitration. To me, it’s a little of a strange decision this year, though.
It’s true that Miles turns 32 tomorrow (Happy Birthday, Aaron. Here are your walking papers!) but how much are the Cards really looking to save here? I suppose it depends on the options. For one thing, considering Miles’ season last year it may be more difficult to bring Miles back. I had also thought that there were a number of teams looking for 2B but that may not actually be the case. The Mets, as we all know, are in the market but considering that the highest profile 2B is still on the market (Orlando Hudson), it seems unlikely that Miles will become a Met.
Still, if they intend to bring Miles back, they can’t be anticipating saving more than $1M or so. Is it really worth the risk? I suppose it depends on what else is available. The Cards need someone who can handle both 2B and SS, w/ 3B a plus in case Freese can’t make the roster. They also need someone who can hit lefties b/c this role player’s biggest role will probably come vs. lefties when Kennedy needs to sit. Kennedy’s career slash lines vs. lefties are .250/.305/.329. He’s awful vs. lefties and if the Cards are going to make the most of keeping Kennedy, they’re going to have to play him against righties and sit him vs. southpaws.
The list of free agent 2B and SS isn’t exactly filled w/ great candidates. Ray Durham’s never played SS and is pretty poor defensively at 2B. Same w/ Tad Iguchi. I always thought that Chris Burke was going to turn into a player but I guess not. There’s this Eckstein-guy. What do you think that conversation would be like? "Hi, David. We’d like you to come back to St. Louis and back up Khalil Greene and your former DP partner, Adam Kennedy." He’d have to swallow a big dose of humble pie but maybe it’s his best option for earning a paycheck. Still, that might really be an awkward situation. Here’s the list of the options and their career splits vs. righties and their career UZR/150 numbers at 2B and SS.
| BA | OBP | SLG | UZR/2B | UZR/SS | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Willie Bloomquist | .278 | .339 | .362 | 3.0 | 2.3 |
| David Eckstein | .285 | .356 | .383 | -2.7 | -2.5 |
| Mark Grudzielanek | .297 | .348 | .412 | 6.0 | -7.9 |
| Jerry Hairston, Jr | .267 | .323 | .380 | 4.9 | -15.2 |
| Aaron Miles | .284 | .352 | .352 | -3.5 | -18.0 |
| Pablo Ozuna | .304 | .333 | .407 | -7.2 | 21.0 |
| Luis Rivas | .252 | .299 | .391 | -4.6 | -25.3 |
| Angel Berroa | .268 | .307 | .419 | 21.5 | -5.7 |
| Marcus Giles | .275 | .350 | .438 | 2.6 | n/a |
| Juan Uribe | .262 | .300 | .449 | 10.3 | 2.3 |
| Omar Vizquel | .252 | .312 | .355 | n/a | 6.5 |
Some caveats: Pablo Ozuna has 359 career PAs vs. righties and 121.2 innings total as a SS. Angel Berroa has 16 innings total as a SS. Grudzielanek is 38 and has played fewer than 24 innings as a SS since 1999. Finally, UZR wasn’t calculated before 2001 so that affects Grudzielanek’s and Vizquel’s defensive numbers, particularly.
The first thing that stands out is how many former Cards are on this list. Geez, where’s Fernando Vina and Tripp Cromer? The next thing is that if you’re looking for hidden gems, well…don’t suffer from eye strain. They’re not there. Grudzielanek’s the best probably if he’s willing to accept a backup role (he may have to) and if he’s able to handle SS. Maybe Uribe’s ok but I fear that he’s insane. Berroa could probably handle 2B but is he really appreciably better than Miles? Marcus Giles hasn’t played in more than a year, has never played SS and hasn’t played well since 2006. Could he handle SS? Miles had never really played SS before coming to St. Louis. In a pinch, maybe but if Greene went down for an extended period, would any of you feel comfortable w/ Giles out there every day?
What about internal candidates? Well, there’s always Brendan Ryan who stunk so badly last year that they ended up sticking him in the OF at Memphis. There’s also Tyler Greene and Jarrett Hoffpauir. I’ve always liked Hoffpauir much more than Greene but he didn’t do much last year to convince me that he’s the solution. There’s also the rumor that Tony doesn’t like his defense at 2B. If that’s true, he likely won’t like him much at SS either. On top of that, he didn’t exactly stand out against AAA lefties last year.
I don’t really mind seeing if Ryan, Greene, or Hoffpauir can handle the job in the spring but I’d be surprised if someone else isn’t brought in just in case they can’t. Is anybody on that list above a distinctly better option than Miles? Would we save any real money that could otherwise be used to help the pen or the starting rotation?
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Internal candidates as utility IF who can hit righties
I’ll add to the list Brian Barden who made the US Olympic team. As far as why they non-tender Miles, it only makes sense in my mind if they plan on replacing him with a league minimum guy (like Barden) and use the salary savings to go after a high $ FA like Sheets. Unless that is the case, I don’t like the nickel and dime antics of non-tendering a guy only to bring him back at a savings of $500k.
by jjray on Dec 14, 2008 11:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'll second that
Barden vs. lefties last year at Memphis: .326/.400/.481. Career not quite as good: .286/.359/.446
One problem with him is that he he hasn’t played much SS. Of course, neither had Miles before TLR got a hold of him, and it’s not like Miles has any range there.
Bottom line, I think, is that if Miles goes elsewhere, Barden wouldn’t be a huge dropoff, and he’ll probably come at a $2 mln savings. So he at least belongs in the conversation.
by DCGreg on Dec 14, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying it makes him a good SS
but he’s played more games at SS than 2B
by rlgosnell on Dec 14, 2008 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
Barden should be considered a candidate. He can’t be any worse at SS than Marcus Giles. So we can safely, I think, add him to the list of candidates who deserve a shot.
by chuckb on Dec 14, 2008 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This decision would be
alot easier to make if Brendan Ryan didn’t completely suck last year. In his defense he was injured during ST and started the year in high A. And once he got up here he wasn’t getting regular playing time. If Ryan can show up in ST I like him in this role. If not, then I guess Miles will have to come back, or hopefully Barden can step in.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 14, 2008 1:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the problem w/ your timeline
is that the decision on Miles will have to come much earlier than we know anything about Ryan or Barden.
by chuckb on Dec 14, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I realized that while I was typing
Not sure why I said it the way I did anyways……Dammit Brendan! Why couldn’t you have just played close to league average!? Why do you lick your shirt sleeve at the plate!? Ahh!!! Screw it!!!
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 14, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly -- i think this is the biggest issue, chuckb.
they wasted too much time last september giving barden not enough time in the field and giving kennedy time . . . in the outfield.
it would have been nice to know, one way or another, how barden would do in the infield, especially at 2d, since he’s got lots of time at 3b and ss.
you’re doing a lot of heavy lifting this week chuckb.
by tom s. on Dec 14, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Barden's time in the lineup late in 2008 went to Lopez
… and that worked out real well for the Cards. We helped Lopez go from DFA to a nice contract with Arizona while we’re still left scratching our heads wondering what to do about 2B / utility infielder.
by jjray on Dec 14, 2008 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've got 3
and Dan’s got 3 days during the week. He does the heavy lifting Mon – Fri.
by chuckb on Dec 14, 2008 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting situation
Somehow, someway, Aaron Miles was the only MIF the Cards had last year who was any kind of offensive presence. A .355 OBP is nothing to spit at, even if it was completely linked to a high BA. This does not mean he should be brought back though. The guy isn’t a good fielder, and he is really only a slappy singles hitter. Versatile? Well, he can stand at several positions when asked to. That’s not versatility though.
I think that Barden may actually be the best option right now. We’ve seen Ryan stink it up, neither Hoff nor Greene are MLB-level players yet, and the external options are no better than Miles. Why not see what Barden can do?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 14, 2008 1:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
slappy singles hitter
with grand slam power!
I think Miles is a great backup MI. I agree with DCGreg though. We can get someone to do almost as good as job as he did for about $2 million less. Even though I doubt they would be able to pitch in a pinch. Or preform the duties of a body guard.
by Evilfrog on Dec 14, 2008 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
UZR/150?
“UZR/150” is a new stat term for me. Can someone define it or direct me to a definition? Thanks.
by SLOKev6 on Dec 14, 2008 2:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
UZR per 150 games
not that any of them would get that much PT — it just makes it easier to compare them.
by chuckb on Dec 14, 2008 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
another former Cardinal
Junior Spivey anyone???
by cards85 on Dec 14, 2008 2:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
cromit
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on Dec 15, 2008 1:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
just ’cause.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 15, 2008 2:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
QUESTION
In Gammons blog up at ESPN on the mlb page, he writes:
“One major Midwestern city newspaper may not travel with its team”
Who would that be? Us? The Minneapolis Star? The Kansas City Star? The Tribune in Chicago? The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel?
I’m wondering because that’s kind of a big deal…
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
by bukowski on Dec 14, 2008 2:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
can't see that happening to the P-D
we have too ravenous of a fan base to justify that sort of cost cutting. I’d guess KC or Pittsburgh. I has to be some team that has a long history of being bad, and has a lot of competition with other sports, esp. football.
Hyperventilating prospect geek @ Future Redbirds.net
by erik on Dec 14, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If it is the P-D
I volunteer for you all to pay me $100/week as I follow the team on the road.
Thank you for your support.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 14, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
would we also have to pitch in on bail money
once you attack LaRussa over his line-up card, which would be a “when” not “if” kinda situation.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, no
I’ve got that covered. You can’t charge someone with assault for standing in front of them and saying ‘You can’t get made at me, I’m not touching you’.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 14, 2008 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice, imploing the Big Brother technique.
Always works.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll do it for $90 - but you'd have to pay for my R/T tickets from Bangkok - assuming the airport is not under attrack. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Dec 14, 2008 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't the Tribune Co. in bankruptcy right now?
Could it be them?
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Dec 14, 2008 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Tribune Co.
is a journalistic disaster area right now, but I suspect the Cubs coverage is one thing that will survive (at least until Zell sells the team).
by DCGreg on Dec 14, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be the Sun Times
Not traveling with the Cubs or the Trib not traveling with the White Sox. The Trib not traveling with the Sox kind of makes sense to me since they are in bankruptcy and no one on the north side is willing to admit that the Sox are actually a better team.
by birdo rojo on Dec 14, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Angel Berroa only 16 innings at SS?
I feel like that is incorrect… I thought he was the Royals cornerstone when he won rookie of the year? Is this a different Angel Berroa?
by flipthebird on Dec 14, 2008 2:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think he meant as a 2B
FanGraphs confirms the typo. Also, he has 0.1 innings at 3B at his career. On a TLR team, that makes him a bonafide 3B backup. :P
by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2 things
Miiles deal was agreed upon in private while Aaron was doing annual winter yard work at TLR’s home. He’ll be back.
On another note, I believe I have stumbled upon Cashman’s strategy now that he has signed C.C. and A.J. Look for R.A. Dickey to join the rotation and the bullpen to feature JA Happ, BJ Ryan, CJ Nitkowski and PJ Walters. JD Drew and FP Santangelo take over in right field while UL Washington comes out of retirement.
Maybe this is just BS
Or maybe not as it fits the PT Barnum/WC Fields atmosphere in NY
by Hinkster on Dec 14, 2008 2:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You know what is funny
That everyone is talking about how much the Yankee’s are spending but no one realizes that their payroll is actually going to go down from last year.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2008 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They're having...
…Abreu, Giambi, and Pavano all come off the books, so that has to help I’d imagine.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 14, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Farnsworth, Pettitte and Mussina for good measure
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 14, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, With the new stadium
With MLB you can write off stadium expenditures against revenue sharing so they have even more money. You know though they have to pay 40% on top of everything they pay over $162 Million.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The luxury tax is up to 162???
It really is a Yankees tax.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 14, 2008 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The answer to all questions lie in the CBA
The Tax Threshold shall be $148 Million in the 2007 Contract
Year, $155 Million in the 2008 Contract Year, $162 Million in the
2009 Contract Year, $170 million in the 2010 Contract Year and
$178 Million in the 2011 Contract Year.
http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is so horrible.
it’s not going to stop anyone who is capable of spending, why not at least luxury tax the top five teams or something.
Ah well, the players union had to get some concession somewhere
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Dec 14, 2008 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe the Cubs are getting close to it
but I doubt they make it. I think I heard they’re around 140, but I could be wrong.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a lot of contracts coming off the books....
so, have they spent it all on their two free agent pitchers?
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Dec 14, 2008 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not even close
They have, 21 from Giambi, 18 from Abreu, 11 mil from Mussina, 16 from Pettitte, 11 from Pavano, 5.5 from Farnsworth. That’s 82.5M, given the Sabathia/Burnett deals are likely to be backloaded I’d bet they have 40-45M still…
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 14, 2008 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I find that astonishing.....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Dec 14, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I have no idea why they wouldn't go get Teixeira
Their offense/defense right now is awful.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 14, 2008 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they traded for El Swisher to play 1B
For what it’s worth (not much).
by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2008 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's see...
Losing:
Giambi ($23.4 mill)
Abreu ($16 mill)
Pettitte ($16 mill)
Mussina ($11 mill)
Pavano ($11 mill)
Farnsworth ($5.9 mill)
That’s about $83.3 million coming off the books, not accounting for the fact that the Yankees had to pay Ivan Rodriguez and Richie Sexson** a healthy chunk of change during their brief stays in New York.
Now, they’re paying Sabathia $23 million annually, so that replaces Giambi, and Burnett $16.4 million, which comes out to about $39.4 million. Astonishingly, this all means that they have MORE money to play with. They could conceivably sign Lowe AND Teixeira still if they so desired. Frightening.
**Is Richie Sexson’s contract teh worst contract ever? I mean, he was arguably the worst player in baseball the last two seasons, and he was making $15 million!
I also notice while typing this that joker24 posted the same info. I’m posting this anyway. I like it, so there.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 14, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
does anybody have any thoughts on how to project pavano in 2009?
or where his salary is likely to land?
If we’re picking up walking wounded, my inclination is to go for penny before pavano. but pavano at least was pitching well during part of 2008. what are everybody’s thoughts on pavano regarding likely effectiveness, likelihood of reinjury during 2009, and what his likely contract would be? his is a name that has largely escaped scrutiny here.
by tom s. on Dec 14, 2008 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
He’s thrown 45 2/3 innings total the past 3 seasons so I couldn’t care less what he projects to, but my prediction would be a lot of bad money.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think there may be something to this
I chuckled a bit reading this.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 14, 2008 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, the repetition of this is awful
Can I flag my own post?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 14, 2008 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry....I already got ya
FLAGGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it really depends on Miles...
and the handling of that situation bothers me. I’ve always felt good about AM (for what he is) even thru the ‘07 season when he was many people’s nose holding whipping boy.
If we INTEND to bring him back, then it seems to me to be cheap-skate foolishness to save 500K or so with the gone and back, gone and back run-around.
If we don’t want him back, ok, but that has not only opened up the back-up shortstop problem, but it accents Kennedy’s duties at 2b. In a word…damn!
In any case I am two for four on my wish list so far { ie no to Itz, Floppy, Izzy and Adam Kennedy }. I still have to sweat out Interestinghausen. And Kennedy is going to be a real nail biter, especially if we don’t re-sign Miles.
by the Tewk on Dec 14, 2008 2:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How bout this guy
This guy put up this line against lefties last year
.345/.418/.548/.966 handles 2B above average and SS below Average
It is Jerry Harriston Jr. We could swap utility players with the Reds.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2008 2:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
sorry
Dusty loves him like TLR loves Aaron………
by Hinkster on Dec 14, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jocketty is looking at Miles for the Reds, too
According to MLBTR.
by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he'll sign...
…Mulder, and then extend Harang before he needs to, and then trade Volquez, Votto, and a reliever for some pitcher whose velocity has decreased dramatically in recent years.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 14, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How about BZ?
Sure, Zito’s contract is less than ideal, but he’d be a great veteran presence on that young Reds team!
:P
by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2008 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Either that
Or trade a one year wonder pitcher for a CF who is a lot better than even Grady Sizemore. Or swing a few nobodies for 70 HRs. Or deal a utility 2B for the best defensive 3B in the game. Or pull Larry Walker out of a hat. Or maybe he can swing Braden Looper for a star-in-his-prime SS. Or find 127 OPS+ for 4mil.
The Jocketty bashing is so outrageous. He made one (horrifically) bad trade and a hindsight-is-20-20-terrible extension on his way to building a perennial contender……but he sucks.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 14, 2008 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa whoa whoa...
…I’m as big a fan of WJ and the WJ era as anyone here. But I make a joke about a bad trade and I’m a Jocketty-basher? Did I say anywhere that WJ is an idiot or otherwise awful person who sucks at life. I never once said anything like that. I made a joke.
The man is the man most-responsible for the greatness of the early-00’s STL Cardinals. He was a trading savant and truly fearless. However, it was time for him to go, plain and simple. The guy’s greatest skill was countered by a more sophisticated understanding of prospect value, so these great trades weren’t possible anymore.
And for the record, that Carpenter extension was NOT a hindsight-type of deal. It didn’t need to be done yet, and during Carpenter’s time in STL to that point he’d had ONE of three complete seasons due to arm injuries. Jocketty pulled him off of an injury scrap-heap. All of a sudden he’s going to stay injury free? Ha. I didn’t post here regularly at the time, so this claim is not falsifiable by anyone, but I was NOT in favor of that deal at the time, even though I have as big of a man-crush on Carpenter as possible. It was indefensible in my mind, and I’m not paid to make these decisions. Now, did I predict a catastrophic injury? No, I didn’t, but I didn’t figure he’d be worth a cent of that extension within about 3-4 years.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 14, 2008 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
regarding WJ's trade history
I think he’s a bit overrated, there. Edmonds, Rolen, McGwire and Walker were all traded in their free agent years. Those trades would not have looked so good if they hadn’t re-signed, especially the Rolen deal in which we gave up Polanco, who turned into a lot more than a utility 2B.
DeWitt really deserves the credit for that period’s trade success, because it was his willingness to open the pocketbook and sign Rolen and Edmonds long-term that allowed the success in the early 2000’s.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 14, 2008 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wait, i'm confused
i thought dewitt was the evil skinflint who forced people to pay good money for a watered-down product. . . . . has he really ever done anything good for baseball in our town?
by lboros on Dec 14, 2008 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course not,
Larry. Why would you even need to ask.
I'm Glad I'm not an Astros Fan
by Dave Barry on Dec 14, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly right
with a second to the fans and city of St. Louis. People who bash DeWitt don’t remember the awful years when the brewery still owned the team and Gussie had passed. Now that was evil skinflintiness!
That said, I still think the payroll needs to be bumped a bit to remain competitive until the verdict is in on the farm investment. The real area to bash WJ was his relative lack of interest in player development, particularly the international markets.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Dec 14, 2008 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if they hadn't been resigned
The only things he gave up in value for any of those players were Adam Kennedy and Polanco. So even if Jock gets no credit for the singings, every one of those is still a decisive win.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 14, 2008 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a knee jerk response to any of this stuff
Any time Jocketty is brought up: “he’d trade Wainwright for Sidney Ponson for veterans LOLZ” crap comes out ev-er-y time and it’s utterly ridiculous. It’s like making a joke that Edmonds was a .250 hitter because of his ‘07 season. No offense, but considering how totally inaccurate a picture you’re painting with the “joke” and the unoriginality why make it?
PS the one year risk in Carpenter’s deal was built into the contract (and he’d had two consecutive “horse” years not one btw), if he stays healthy 14-15mil year would’ve been a healthy discount. Didn’t work that way but he didn’t get a market value for a reason.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 14, 2008 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Best thing to ever happen for Aaron Miles
was Jocketty getting dumped and taking the job in Cincinnati. That immediately doubled the number of teams that would be bidding for his services in the offseason.
It created a market for Aaron Miles.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
do you think all these non-tenders
and letting Looper and Springer go, is some massive scaleback on payroll? I guess this could be easily looked up, but I don’t even know where to look… does inbev own the team now? would they scaleback spending?
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 2:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe with the Economny and Highway 40 shut down
They are afraid of taking a large hit in revenue. With the highway down South City is cut off or at least hassled to go to a ball game. With attendance so important for the Cardinals I think they are playing it conservative
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ah
that makes some sense… it’s not like they are letting any key players go (well, I think we’re all still a bit confused about Looper), although it would be weird if miles isn’t with the team next year.
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And, to answer your last question
InBev owns Anheiser-Busch and the naming rights to Busch Stadium. Bill DeWitt owns the Cardinals and Busch Stadium.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ah
that’s what I thought
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
great signature
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 14, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hah! As a former South St. Louisan
now stuck in traffic hell (DC/Baltimore area), the whole idea of So. STL residents giving up on going to games because Hwy 40 is closed is laughable. What, the 12-minute drive is now 17 minutes?
On second thought, why would Hwy 40 problems cause hassle for any but a handful of So. STL residents?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 14, 2008 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It actually causes problems for
central and west St. Louisans. South-siders can catch 55 or 44.
by spants on Dec 14, 2008 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and if your'e far enough out in west county
you can just take 270 to 70 or 44. St. Louis’s highway system is really very well planned. The sprawl has created a lot of traffic, but the traffic that there is is routed very well.
This in contrast to where I live, where there isn’t that much traffic, but the civil engineering is so shoddy that it makes one want to cry.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Dec 14, 2008 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When I lived in the Lou
I hated the traffic “problems” as much as anyone, but having lived in much larger metro areas on both coasts, the ease of getting around in STL just amuses the hell out of me. God I miss the old hometown.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 14, 2008 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
The traffic problems are a bit different right now. The main vein from the river to the western suburbs is undergoing massive reconstruction. Being from Chicago, I know that you’re right, St. Louis traffic is a breeze. But the highway 40 construction is messing things up a lot — and starting tomorrow, it’s going to start messing things up a lot more for me personally.
by mojowo11 on Dec 15, 2008 1:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know
we like to complain about traffic here, but it’s really a non-issue. You can get from on side of the exurbs to the other in an hour during heavy traffic. That’s not bad. Suburbs to suburbs is about 30 minutes in traffic. City to suburbs takes anywhere from 10-30 minutes. And when all the highways are fully functioning, and it isn’t rush hour, it’s about 20 minutes to anywhere.
Having 40 closed does kind of suck, but it’s not too difficult to work around.
by spants on Dec 14, 2008 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those times are probably a little short
I lived in St. Charles and went to high school in west county, and my rush hour commute was about 40 minutes, and that wasn’t really going across town.
The only real problem with getting around in the city is messing around with the rivers during rush hour, and I guess the page extension and the 370 bridge exist now and didn’t exist when I lived in town. But yeah, it’s really not that bad.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Dec 14, 2008 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I got from
Lemay Ferry Road at I-270 (or I-255) to 40W to Highway 141 to Clayton Rd in 30 minutes during rush hour on Monday. I didn’t go over 65 mph. It freaking rocked.
by spants on Dec 14, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
traffic alert - come to Bangkok where there are motorcycle and tuk-tuk lanes painted on the sidewalks.
Sidewalks also fastooned with drippings and droppings of cats, dogs, hias (a kind of mini alligator) and an occasional elephant. .. .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Dec 14, 2008 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bloomquist . . .
You had bloomquist on the list and then just kind of skimmed over him in your writing. I wouldn’t mind seeing in a Cardinals uni. He had an awful season last year, but what Mariner didn’t? The guy is definitely versatile, and for a really cheap deal wouldn’t be a bad back-up.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 14, 2008 3:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, for his career
he’s a little better than I thought but he hardly stands out among that group. He’s among the top 5-6 options — right there w/ Miles, Grudzielanek, maybe Hairston…
by chuckb on Dec 14, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Said it before
but I’ll drive over my own skull if Miles leaves.
SAY IT AIN’T SO, MO!
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Dec 14, 2008 3:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How would you pull that one off?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 14, 2008 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For Aaron Miles
I’d learn how to juggle grizzly bears, much less drive a car over my face.
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Dec 14, 2008 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for joining the discussion,
Mrs. Miles.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 14, 2008 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Zoop
What stadium was that picture taken in (in your avatar) and that looks like Bud Selig sitting behind you.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The only way we lose Miles
is if another team guarantees him a starting job. He has seen enough utility players leave St. Louis and lose playing time. LaRussa always finds at bats for his bench.
The time for overpaying on a role player is late summer, and playoffs are easily attainable.
by Beardsville Rockers on Dec 14, 2008 3:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Phillies need a starting second baseman
for a few months!
by Beardsville Rockers on Dec 14, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that's a good point
the Cards are probably giving him a chance to be a starter elsewhere… but he’s always welcome here as super mario utility guy
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
somehow i think grit is enjoying st. louis magic.
like weaver, he’ll just turn into a pumpkin anywhere else.
i wish the best for him. if he does get a starting job, i hope he succeeds. but i think it’ll all end in tears.
by tom s. on Dec 14, 2008 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
miles and miles before we rest
i will be very surprised if am does not return gritiness to our infield next year. if not, i bet mo forces tlr to find a player among the multiple internal options. if hoff isn’t ready now, will he ever be? greene? ryan? martinez? these guys need to either be utilized or let go. my guess: if am gets a better offer than a mild increase from stl from the reds or whoever, then he’ll go. otherwise he is going to have to wait. $2.5M for miles or sub $500k for ryan etc. and throw that $2.5M at fuentes. that is probably the kind of money that separates what we’re offering and what fuentes wants. maybe tlr will have to choose.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Dec 14, 2008 3:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This was brought up earlier
but i feel so strongly about it i am going to say it again…There is no reason that brian barden cannot be our utility IF next season…i saw him at memphis 5 times this year, and he plays really solid defense at short(i’m guessing he could do the same at 2B)..he can hit lefties(or at least better than kennedy, a lot better)…our infield next season should be comprised of pujols, kennedy, greene, glaus, barden, and freese imho…that is a good, cheap IF and allows us to spend our extra money(~2mil i’m guessing)on what this team really needs, another starter
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2008 4:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
actually
I kind of hope this is the case, I’d like to see or infield bench guys be Freese and Barden, otherwise, trade ’em.
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth
BP has their minor league translations for EqA and none of them for our young MIs are very rosy.
Their regular translations are:
Hoffpauir — .230
Barden — .223
Greene — .218
Ryan — .215
Their peak translations are:
Hoffpauir — .233
Greene — .231
Barden — .221
Ryan — .207
Don’t ask me how Barden’s and Ryan’s regular translations can be better than their peaks. I haven’t the foggiest idea. Nonetheless, Kennedy’s last year was .247 so we’re not talking about a tremendous crop of hitters in all likelihood. Still, I’m not opposed to giving them their shot but i’m also not delusional enough to think that any of them is the savior either.
by chuckb on Dec 14, 2008 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think they are the savior
i just do think their is a savior otu there…so why not use what we have as our utility infielder and spend money on the rotation
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2008 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there really a need to pay miles for his role?
A utility infielder who isn’t a very good fielder?
Maybe he’s worth about 1 million to the team, any more and it seems like you should just go with any random guy who we already have. Barden isn’t much of a downgrade.
by TheBirds on Dec 14, 2008 4:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Miles was worth just more than 1 win
last year — $4.5 to 5M in 408 PAs. Can we get 1 win from any of those other guys (or half a win in half as many PAs)? Maybe but none is likely to become a regular player and if either starter were to go down for an extended period of time, we’d likely be hurtin’ for certain.
by chuckb on Dec 14, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but miles probably won't be that good next year.
He sure seemed to be playing over his head last year, and BABIP agrees. He should regress significantly, offensively, and I could see Ryan being worth a full win with his glove at either ss or 2B, even if his bat is replacement level again (which I don’t think it will be).
Not sold on Barden, but I haven’t seen him play SS.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 14, 2008 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think deep down both Miles and Ryan are about the same talent level.
So why pay Miles more to be just as good (or bad if you want to look at it that way) as Ryan.
by TheBirds on Dec 14, 2008 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
as noted above, we don't really have to choose between barden and ryan or even t. greene.
we just have to choose between miles and internal prospect, or alternately miles and external prospect.
so we could not reoffer miles and put ryan up initially, then drop him down to AAA (he’s not yet out of options, right?) bring up barden or hoffpauir or t. greene.
but if we reoffer miles, then we either lose the chance to carry freese as a backup or lose the chance to try out one of our prospects.
the intangible thing here I worry about is that, if we resign miles, we don’t get the chance to test out our farm and find out who among these options is worth playing. For a team with holes in the MIF for2010, that could be a HUGE opportunity cost. That is tempered by the fact that none of these MIF prospects screams that they are ML ready. Still, I’d really like to find out what we have, sooner rather than later.
If we resign miles, do we run the risk that we are back at square one in 2010, hoping that we can keep patching this leak? If we give the young ’uns a chance to play, then at least we know what we have. if they stink, they stink. finding that out is worth something.
by tom s. on Dec 14, 2008 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it does seem that at this rate will will be perpetually resigning miles to a 1 year contract.
This cycle has to break sooner than later. I was disappointing when Miles was signed last year.
by TheBirds on Dec 14, 2008 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we sign him to a Wakefield-style deal?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Dec 14, 2008 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you mean "splits versus lefties?"
You started off the post by saying that we needed a utility guy that can hit against lefties… but then refer to the table as their “career splits vs. righties.” But those numbers are for the hitters’ numbers against left-handed pitchers, right?
Just making sure I didn’t miss something there.
But, yeah… I’d be surprised if Miles wasn’t brought back.
by AndyB83 on Dec 14, 2008 4:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
if i was miles...i would do everything in my power to cash in on my year
the cardinals are kinda yanking him around
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2008 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By giving him more playing time than
any other team would? That’s yanking him around?
by Beardsville Rockers on Dec 14, 2008 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no by non-tendering and breaking him back for less than he would get in arby
i mean i don’t think he is a great player…but if i was miles i would try my damndest to get a good deal
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2008 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And now he has that freedom.
The Cardinals aren’t yanking him around, they simply are going to set their own price for that roster spot. By the list available, there are plenty of situational upgrades (meaning better power, fielding versality, OPS guys) on the market that might be money better spent.
by Beardsville Rockers on Dec 14, 2008 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they are yanking him around
but its smart business…if i was running a team, i would do the same thing, but it is still them yanking him around
if the company you were working for did this to you…you’d feel like they were yanking you around, and you would look for other job opportunities with other companies
still i agree with it
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I could understand you feeling
that way if this were new territory for how the FO deals with their bench players. This is nothing new, however. We have seen some well liked bench players come and go for some time. Not many ever had bad words for how they were treated a year after leaving. Many were even smart enough to realize they got the opportunity to have financial demands because of the management style of the Cardinals. Miles falls into this category.
by Beardsville Rockers on Dec 14, 2008 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To us it appears
Miles is being yanked around. Who knows what they’re telling him or offering him.
I heard an interview with Miles last year. He talked about his contract and his years with the Cardinals, and he sounded like a guy who’d won the lottery. He was thrilled to have financial stability and a place to play regularly. He just sounds like a hard-working, regular dude. I think he understands the business and will be happy to be employed anywhere next season.
Don’t worry about Aaron Miles. He’ll land somewhere, if not back with us. And he’s still getting paid in comparison to a typical American salary. As long as he doesn’t live like a rockstar, he is going to be fine.
by spants on Dec 14, 2008 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's funny
that last year at this time people were celebrating him never being a Cardinal again, and now one year later some people are upset that the Cardinals are supposedly “yanking him around”.
It’s entertaining to see the AR crowd search so feverishly to find another victim since the whole Brendan Ryan thing didn’t really turn out to be a solid platform.
And, fwiw, I’ve been a Miles defender of sorts for a couple of years, so I’m not hating on the guy and would be just fine with him coming back but I just wonder if other fanbases are so obsessed with finding the newest victim on the team?
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
who exactly is the "AR crowd"
etc?
there is a wide diversity of opinions among a fairly large population here. Kind of feels like you are spraying a firehose into the crowd, trying to see how many people you can hit with one straw man post.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 14, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he meant
AM (Aaron Miles). Not sure though.
by spants on Dec 14, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the only thing I can think of
is accounts receivable.
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Take it however you want
but you can’t say there wasn’t a definitive AR crowd. Is it the terminology you disapprove of? Then I apologize for not thinking of a better term. But you have to at least see the irony in the change of attitude for so many in regards to Aaron Miles. There were people who couldn’t wait to be rid of the guy and now he’s being mistreated by the organization.
I’m not taking shots, I’m simply pointing out something I find as rather remarkable. But, Miles probably isn’t the new victim on the team. That title has been given to Perez.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
everyone is a hypocrite!
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
First of all
I don’t know why people can’t change their minds about a player.
More importantly, however, there were a ton of Aaron Miles defenders here last year. I don’t know who was whom — I just don’t keep track of what someone said last year — but he had his critics a year ago and his defenders a year ago. I’ll say that a good season has probably created some defenders from the critics but that goes back to point #1.
Finally, I’ll say that it’s silly to say that Aaron Miles is being jerked around. This is a business and it’s the one he chose. I think it’s a silly risk to take to attempt to save 1/2 a million if they really want him back, but if they don’t — thanks for the years, Aaron. Good luck to you. It’s a business and I think some of us think this is a lot more personal than it really is.
by chuckb on Dec 14, 2008 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think human beings like
story-telling. People have to fit a “role.” We are entertained by drama, perceived or otherwise. I’m not knocking people. Everyone does this. It’s completely normal.
In this situation, Miles is the good guy, and the Cardinals are the bad guys. (At least to some people.) But it’s all relative to the player, his role in the story, and the conflict. If you scramble things, we react differently.
What I want to know is this: does Miles’ everyman, utility role, and his scrappiness alter the way we see him? Is it easier for us to relate to Miles than to Pujols? I’m guessing that it is, and this is why we root for him, and players like him, and get protective when things appear to be looking down.
by spants on Dec 14, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This Anthony Reyes bulls--t gets old.
by azruavatar on Dec 14, 2008 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was exactly my point.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No one said Reyes until you brought it up.
This idea that there are a bunch of malcontents looking for the next dead horse to beat is crap. It’s counterproductive to any discussion and designed to be inflammatory.
by azruavatar on Dec 14, 2008 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sobeit
I’ve already taken responsibility for it and have dropped it.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ah
that’s what AR means
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt...
…Reyes has anything to do with this.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 14, 2008 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Btw, I should have known better
now that the Brian Fuentes fervor has died down, there’s got to be something else and I shouldn’t have brought up Flatbill.
I take full responsibility for opening old wounds and am dropping it.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
rec'd
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on Dec 15, 2008 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
MLB is a helluva lot
more red in tooth and claw than most businesses. This kind of treatment is par for the course for guys in Miles’ talent class.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Dec 14, 2008 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
relative to which industries?
I don’t see a lot of sentimental businesses out in the market, either sports-related or not.
if the worst thing mlb does is allow for people to be signed and resigned on a year by year basis while guaranteeing that they are paid $440,000/year for 6-7 months work, then I think it’s pretty white-glove with its employees.
How is that “more red in tooth and claw” than paying somebody $6.50 an hour with no benefits to do manual labor?
by tom s. on Dec 14, 2008 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
and when no one is willing to give you a starting gig
and you know LaRussa will play you almost everyday in some sort of capacity….I bet that would change your tune.
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
probably
but i would still look really hard
by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2008 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What about signing Juan Uribe, and giving him Kennedy's starting job?
Or slotting him into the Miles role?
Transactions
January 15, 1997: Signed by the Colorado Rockies as an amateur free agent.
December 2, 2003: Traded by the Colorado Rockies to the Chicago White Sox for Aaron Miles.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Dec 14, 2008 4:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Juan Uribe makes Juan Encarnacion look like he's on speed.
After two years of people bitching about Encarnacion’s effort and how he “doesn’t look like he cares”, I can only imagine what the reaction would be to seeing Juan Uribe daydreaming in the middle infield.
Although he will hit a pretty good number of home runs (although he’s been playing in US Cellular). Wouldn’t that be something to have a middle infield that combined to hit 30-35 home runs.?
The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.
by Tackle Box on Dec 14, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I made a comment...
yesterday that a T. and K. Greene middle infield would record the most offensive outs in the history of offensive outs. A Uribe/K. Greene duo would cause the world to turn backwards on itself and the oceans to randomly switch places. Uribe makes Greene look patient and Juan Pierre look like something more patient than just patient.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 14, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
aside from angel berroa, he's the best fielder on that list per UZR.
and the dude at least has power. As a third MI, he’s not a bad option at all.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Dec 14, 2008 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's why...
…the Cardinals are better off with rolling the dice on the player known as Random Inside Option. They’re all cheaper than a known mediocrity.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 14, 2008 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have a baseline level of ability at a one year $2M contract
than some internal option that might put up Brendan Ryan’s 2008 for a full season if Kennedy or Green get hurt in ST. None of our internal options really look very good, at all. Like even replacement level.
Is it really worth the $1.5M difference in contract to just expose yourself to risk like that?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Dec 14, 2008 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2 million isn't a small sum
Even in todays game. 2 million saved here, 2 million saved there and you’ve got 4 mil to buy a nice reliever.
The fact is the Cards waste too much money paying guys like Miles, Spivey etc each year and it adds up.
So yeah, I would risk 1.5M to find out whether or not miles actually improves this team being a utility infielder who can’t field.
by TheBirds on Dec 14, 2008 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
a nice reliever, OR, the different between lohse and sheets, or burnett.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 14, 2008 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully this idea of paying guys like Miles stops
Before we have to start paying Pujols 30 mil/yr. That’s not going to give us wiggle room to sign gritty players.
by TheBirds on Dec 14, 2008 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't it depend
on how much PT you expect the player to get? If he gets only 200 PAs or so, a $1.5 M difference is like a $4.5 M player. Paul Thomas over at BtB wrote a great post a couple of days ago about why a team should choose James Skelton — a backup catcher in the Rule 5 draft. He’s got pretty decent numbers and, if he stinks, he’s only going to get 150-200 PAs so what the hell? You’re hardly out anything.
If we’re only going to give the backup MI 200 PAs, you may as well go w/ Barden or Tyler Greene or Hoffpauir and save the money for another need. If it’s like last year (Miles had 408 PAs), you probably want to go ahead and spend the $1.5M.
by chuckb on Dec 14, 2008 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda makes the LaRue signing seem a little silly.
Backups getting payed upwards of 1 million is a mistake.
Granted miles was slightly more than a backup last year, but that was entirely unnecessary.
by TheBirds on Dec 14, 2008 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but isn't it partially an insurance policy?
You’re not paying the $1.5M just for the 200 PAs, you’re paying it so that you’re not screwed if Greene goes down in spring training and can’t play a game this season. I guess you could do something like calculate the probability of significant injury for Miles or Greene, and multiply by the pa under that scenario, and then compare that to replacement.
Yes, clearly, if it means not signing Ben Sheets or something, then I’m plenty happy with Brendan Ryan as the backup MI. But i kind of feel that the front office doesn’t have a payroll cutoff that is so firm that there isn’t a couple million dollars worht of wiggle room. But maybe I’m wrong.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Dec 14, 2008 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I knew how to...
set up a poll. I’ve very curious as to how the numbers would come out on a vote:
Can’t have both or neither, must pick one or the other to be on the Cardinal roster in ’09:
Aaron Miles or Adam Kennedy ?
by the Tewk on Dec 14, 2008 7:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Miles
a thousand times Miles.
I hate watching Miles play defense but there is nothing that makes my brain bleed more than Adam Kennedy’s physics defying swing.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 14, 2008 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks much
for saying that about Kennedy’s swing. No “crack” in his bat… all grunt and trying to over-muscle. He reminds me of Tino Martinez, who is himself a nasty ghost of Christmas past.
by the Tewk on Dec 14, 2008 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand how no one has ever told him
that if you swing straight upwards, the bat is only on the same plane as the ball at exactly one point.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 14, 2008 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the same reason
that no one ever told that to Edmonds.
"She was married when we first met, soon to be divorced. I helped her out of a jam I guess, but I used a little too much force." ~B. Dylan
by tangledbrett on Dec 14, 2008 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
heh
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Edmonds was a nightmare too...
but he had great hands. Kennedy doesn’t.
by the Tewk on Dec 14, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, the
same method has been more effective for Edmonds.
by spants on Dec 14, 2008 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
though no one would look worse swinging and missing that Edmonds
But yeah, that dude could see anything but a high fastball beautifully.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Dec 14, 2008 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is the real Aaron Miles?
The 08 one or 04-07 Miles?
His career OPS is .693 but posted an impressive .753 OPS in 2008. Lets see where this difference came from.
His Walk rates from 04 to 08
5.3, 2.4,8.2, 5.7, and 5.7% with his career walk rate of 5.6%. So he isn’t taking any more walks than normal. Maybe he is striking out less?
His K Rates from 04 to 08
10.2 , 11.7, 9.9 , 9.7, 9.8% with his career K rate of 10.1%. His K rate has not change for the last 3 years. So it doesn’t look like his batting eye has gotten any better.
Well lets look at his BABIP 04 to 08 (lg avg BABIP is .297)
.317, .313, .288, .317, .343 with his career BABIP of .316 and there it is. He just had a really lucky year with no improvement in skill. When he reverts he will go back to being a career .693 OPS.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2008 7:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It is possible to improve your BA skills without improving your other skills
BABIP is a reflection of luck but is also a reflection of how well you put the ball in play when you do. In 2008, compared to his career numbers, Aaron Miles had a higher LD, a lower FB and a higher HR/FB. He also had a lower IFH suggesting that he might have room to improve to batting average and BABIP.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 14, 2008 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To put in perspective Albert Pujols Career BABIP is .323
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2008 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying that Miles BABIP will stay at .343
But it isn’t a stretch to believe that it can be somewhere around .330. He is a slappy hitter who also gets a lot of bloop hits based on the fact that he has no power.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 14, 2008 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Was he ever not a slappy hitter?
If you are going to use something as evidence that his BABIP should go up, it has to at least be a change that he made before last season.
by TheBirds on Dec 14, 2008 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shall we compare LD%
I would but I can’t find the stat.
Miles is on the list of luckiest players of 08.
by TheBirds on Dec 14, 2008 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Miles LD%
2004 COL 18.1%
2005— COL— 23.1%
2006— STL — 20.1%
2007— STL — 17.9%
2008— STL— 21.0%
Not THAT out of the ordinary for his career.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 14, 2008 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you factored in that he was REALLY GRITTY last year.
by TheBirds on Dec 14, 2008 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No he wasn't
It was his best offensive season of his career therefore his GRIT score dramatically fell off.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on Dec 14, 2008 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The two easiest ways to increase your BABIP
are steroids or speed training. :D
Or just be really lucky.
by Hardcore Legend on Dec 14, 2008 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
if we can prove which players are consistently lucky/have really good aim
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here is a good start from Hardball Times
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2008 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so we should have given Felipe Lopez
more props?
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I switched from 2008
to all, and Pujols is always above 0… which means he has really good aim in hitting the ball to where he wants to
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/batters-and-babip/
Per “new xBABIP” he was the seventh-luckiest MLB hitter in 2008, putting up .037 over expectation.
Subbing xBABIP out for his actual BABIP would work for generating adjusted slash stats.
by astrostl on Dec 14, 2008 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a glimmer of hope that the combined revenue of nickel and dimes savings - Springer, Looper, Miles, Floppy and the like will translate to a Sheets signing?
or just a few more $mil to management?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Dec 14, 2008 9:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Holding out judgement
I am looking for some kind of bold move this off season without I will be severely disappointed.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 14, 2008 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe not that kind of drama, but i could imagine, say:
We drop $9M-$10m on Randy Johnson in January.
Then, Penny/Saito/Springer remains unsigned through March. We pick one of the above up for $4m-5m of base salary (w/ incentives added for Penny or Saito).
I can readily imagine de witt adding $13M-$15M of salary. But if we sink, say, $2.5M-$3m on grit, we may find that we’re bumping up against $17-$18m in the above scenarios and we can’t take that player.
Before anybody quibbles about whether johnson or any of the above would go for that much, just replace him with a slightly less (or perhaps more) impressive pitcher.
I’m less hopeful that Mo will do a “one big blockbuster” trade/signing, than that there will be an interesting flyer to take on a player later in the offseason.
by tom s. on Dec 14, 2008 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
waiting = nibbling
i agree mo will keep an eye on the market and probably add incrementally at his price, or fill from within. i think this applies to the good players like sheets as well as maybes like penny.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Dec 14, 2008 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think leaving 4 or 5 open spots on the 40-man roster says a lot.
by tom s. on Dec 15, 2008 3:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is there a limit
to the minimum amount of players you can have on the 40 man roster? That makes sense, right?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 15, 2008 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
probably 25?
I mean, you have to have your 25-man full, right?
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 15, 2008 6:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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