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Around SBN: Bills must alter strategy to make offense work


Non-tenders

Low hanging fruit! Get your low hanging fruit here!

  • Jonny Gomes
  • Takashi Saito
  • Ty Wigginton
  • Chris Capuano
  • Willy Tavares
  • Yhency Brazoban
  • Tim Redding
  • Chuck James
  • Angel Berroa
  • Scott Proctor
  • Clay Hensley
  • Daniel Cabrera
  • Chris Burke
  • Joe Nelson
  • Charlie Haeger
  • Denny Bautista
  • Chris Britton
  • Justin Christian
  • Gary Majewski
  • Matt Belisle
  • Joe Nelson
  • Jeff Salazar
  • Robby Hammock
  • Wilfredo Ledezma
  • Doug Mathis
  • Kevin Cash
  • Joey Gathright
  • Lance Cormier
  • More on the way, no word on who the Cardinals will non-tender, if anyone. (FLORES! Cough!) update: Miles, Flores and TyJo were non-tendered

A couple of quick thoughts---

If Ty Wigginton can play 2B, is he worth $6-8M? He has an OPS+ of 105 for his career, and in 140 games at 2B has an UZR of -1.1

Daniel Cabrera was once all velocity and no control, but his velocity has been falling off a little bit every season and he struck out less than five per nine last season. Definitely a Dunc candidate if there ever has been one, but I'm not so sure if he's worth the frustration.

If healthy, perhaps the 39 yr. old Saito could fit the bill as the "proven closer" TLR is looking for, and at much less of a cost. I'd rather them have a stopgap guy like Saito then them spending gobs of $ on a type A free agent like Fuentes. But you have to think his arm is pretty much toast if the Dodgers aren't willing to pony up the $3.5M he's estimated to get in arbitration to retain him.

I have a soft spot in my heart for knuckeballers, so I would love to see them take a flyer on Charlie Haeger.

Tim Redding, here we come...

Here's the updated, complete list.

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Comments

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Actually

2 elbow surgeries.

The boys are all here for ya...we'll back you up...we'll be there...cause, Billy, we don't stink right now. We're the best team in baseball right now...right this minute...because of you. You're the reason. We're not gonna screw that up, we're gonna be awesome for you right now. Just throw.

by Tackle Box on Dec 13, 2008 10:52 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Furthermore

do you think Tavares would take $1 M to be a pinch runner late in games?

by Hardcore Legend on Dec 12, 2008 11:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'm not sure that's worth a mil

and at least according to UZR, he left his glove in Houston.

Hyperventilating prospect geek Future Redbirds

by erik on Dec 12, 2008 11:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good sig, erik.

It was half my fault, and half the atmosphere.

by the red baron on Dec 13, 2008 5:29 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

now i just need to

change my avatar into someone breathing heavily into a brown paper bag…maybe one of those animated avatars.

Hyperventilating prospect geek @ Future Redbirds.net

by erik on Dec 13, 2008 9:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How about

you try to find a picture of an old time prospector breathing into a paper bag? I doubt such a thing exists, but can you imagine the glory and wonderfulness if it did?

It was half my fault, and half the atmosphere.

by the red baron on Dec 14, 2008 4:45 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is very funny

And I like this new avatar, too.

by liam on Dec 14, 2008 10:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about Chuck James

He was very good in 06, and he was solid in 07 before a terrible year last year (although he only pitched 29 innings). The one problem he had before was a high home run rate. Duncan should be able to correct that. He is still young, he is a lefty and he wouldn’t cost anything. He seems like a least a viable option to contend with Piniero for the 5th starter job if we don’t trade an outfielder for a better one.

by vivaelpujols on Dec 12, 2008 11:56 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he had

shoulder surgery I believe and will be out for the season. We have our mlb quota of those.

I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck

by bukowski on Dec 13, 2008 9:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

off topic,

but i had to add this for any who is a “looney toons” fan, i could have sworn that said chuck jones when i first read it

"I've got this thing and it's [expletive] golden, and, uh, uh, I'm just not giving it up for [expletive] nothing. I'm not gonna do it." - Gov. Rob Blagojevich on Obama's Senate seat.

by elirock83 on Dec 13, 2008 12:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reggie Abercrombie

Heck of a baseball name….but not sure about the talent to go with it.

We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

by KYCards on Dec 12, 2008 11:56 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seriously.

He sounds like a “Major League” character.

by spants on Dec 13, 2008 4:12 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reggie Abercrombie

I believe that was the name of an early 90’s oklahoma sooner basketball post player. There should be some good big 8/12 minds on here, can anyone help me with that? Reggie may not have been his first name.

He was on the same team as that kid who was really good and played baseball as well. I can’t think of his name either.

by thewizard3 on Dec 15, 2008 10:25 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i didn’t realize tj was arb-eligible. how did brad thompson not manage at least super-2 status?

by greenback06 on Dec 13, 2008 1:18 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He did

He still has options remaining but would have to pass through revocable waivers to go back to Memphis

(Meaning any team can claim him but we have the right to pull him back)

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 13, 2008 1:21 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i’m confused. are you saying thompson’s a super-2? he’s not mentioned in the goold article.

by greenback06 on Dec 13, 2008 1:49 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well he has 3 years of Expierence

Regardless of the article he is up for Arbitration

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 13, 2008 2:10 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, but goold’s usually pretty good at these details. mlb.com does have thompson getting arb along with ludwick of course.

by greenback06 on Dec 13, 2008 8:48 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's see...

I’ll have one of the Takashi Saito, um, one Chuck James, a Charlie Haeger, hmm, the Scott Proctor doesn’t sound bad, but I just don’t know if I’m that hungry… Maybe a Wil Ledezma, the arm strength still sounds good, let’s see, last time I tried a Daniel Cabrera I was in the bathroom all night, so I’ll pass there… hey, is the Yhency Brazoban any good? No? Oh, guess I’ll pass on that too. Uh, maybe, no, that’s got mushrooms on it… wow, a Chris Burke? Man, I haven’t had one of those in ages! Seems like they just stopped carrying those, you know? Do I want one? Oh, I don’t know, I’ll think about it. Hey! What are you doing with that Capuano? You’re just going to toss it out? Man, that doesn’t seem right, does it? Yeah, sure, I’ll take it if you were just going to get rid of it. Well, no, I don’t really think I want it, but I’ll take it home and see if one of my kids wants it or something. Um, no, that should probably do it. How much? $11.67? Good lord, that seems like an awful lot for what little I got! Are you sure you rang that up right?

It was half my fault, and half the atmosphere.

by the red baron on Dec 13, 2008 5:28 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Daniel Cabrera sure gave

the Yankees the runs. :rimshot:

Hyperventilating prospect geek @ Future Redbirds.net

by erik on Dec 13, 2008 9:52 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bravo, sirrah.

Bravo.

It was half my fault, and half the atmosphere.

by the red baron on Dec 14, 2008 4:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wigginton would look great at 2B. And I can’t believe Florida non-tendered Joe Nelson after the year he had last year.

If we had a spot in the OF I would love to see Joey Gathright here but the Cards seem not to want black players except for a King/Barton token.

by Czechguardsman on Dec 13, 2008 7:59 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whoa

That’s a pretty strong charge. I would suggest maybe rewording your opinion a bit so we can avoid the predictable 100-post flame war.

by mikedallas45 on Dec 13, 2008 9:00 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ignoring the race comment...

Joey Gathright is useless as a major league player. He doesn’t make KC’s outfield and they’re looking to upgrade at 2 positions in the OF. That says a lot. He is a faster Willy Tavares with less baserunning ability, defense, and on-base ability. He might slug worse than Willy, too.

I like the Ty Wiggington idea, along with Daniel Cabrera, Saito, James, Hensley, Burke, Nelson, Bautista, Gomes, and Jason Smith. Any of those guys on a VERY SMALL deal…would be alrighty with me. By VERY SMALL, I mean a minor league deal for many of them.

by stlfan on Dec 13, 2008 9:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jonny Gomes

The Mariners would do well to sign him as a DH… unless they plan on continuing to use their best catcher in that role.

by liam on Dec 14, 2008 10:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i agree

please keep the knee-jerk accusations to yourself. just stupid.

I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.

by _pistol_ on Dec 13, 2008 9:44 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Other than the Wigginton comment, this from Billy Madison:

“What you’ve just (typed) is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever (read). At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having (read) it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck

by bukowski on Dec 13, 2008 9:51 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

regarding the wigginton comment

he was -7 in around 350 innings the last time someone tried him there (2007). He’s not a second baseman.

they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums

by SleepyCA on Dec 13, 2008 9:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Uncalled for...

…Besides, Joey Gathright’s only skill is his ability to jump over cars. Linky.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 13, 2008 12:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Awesome...

I’d seen that before and it never ceases to amaze me.

by stlfan on Dec 13, 2008 1:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Opening day

Remember when Ozzie Smith would do his back flip on opening day? Just send Gathright to jump the Fredbirdmobile to work up the crowd. Then, send him to Memphis…

Hyperventilating prospect geek @ Future Redbirds.net

by erik on Dec 13, 2008 3:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Darn you Erik

I had just put up a fanpost that i figured would get a lot of conversation going…and then you post one that is actually pertinent to the cardinals current situation

anyways, daniel cabrera please(on a cheap deal of course)….is he really low hanging fruit with his “upside”

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 13, 2008 10:48 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Chris Burke

If Aaron Miles were to disappear, there are a number of Burke characteristics that would excite TLR

- he is a short middle infielder
- he can play a number of positions including of
- he is a high character guy
- he is gritty
- he is inexpensive

by Hinkster on Dec 13, 2008 11:23 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whats he top out at?

Can he replace our 13th reliever?

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Dec 13, 2008 12:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Grit

is truly an underappreciated characteristic. Although I like Miles cuz he kicked the crap out of someone holding a gun – he’s freakin’ John Wayne he’s got so much true grit.

I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck

by bukowski on Dec 13, 2008 6:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can’t believe Willy Taveras got non-tendered. A guy who led the league in SBs with 68 and the Rox don’t want him. Nuts.

Sorry about the earlier comment.

by Czechguardsman on Dec 13, 2008 12:28 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is about the only thing he can do

He has terrible on base skills for a leadoff hitter (really for any hitter, but you just know he would get lead off time here).He has no power, not even extra base power. For someone as fast as he is , you would think he could put up some decent doubles and triples numbers, but he can’t even do that. He has a terrible BB/K rate (seriously Willy, you have NO POWER, cut down on the damn free swinging already.) Add in the the craptacular fielding and you have yourself one pathetic baseball player. I am also going to assume he has a noodle arm. If he doesn’t, anyone, please feel free to correct me on that.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 13, 2008 1:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's worse than Juan Pierre

If that’s not a crippling insult I don’t know what is.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 13, 2008 2:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pierre may have

the worst OF arm I have ever seen {Chris Duncan’s is pretty awful too)

by the Tewk on Dec 13, 2008 6:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not Taveras specifically,

but I would really love to see the Cardinals bat some kid who’s a real burner seventh sometime. He gets on base, he’s got the pitcher and the ninth place hitter coming up behind him. What better time to just run like hell than when your worst hitters are up?

Strange, because the idea seems to have always been to get your speedy guys on when your good hitters are up, presumably because then said speed guys will get themselves into scoring position. However, it seems to me that when your big guys- your Alberts and his ilk- are up, you don’t want to risk losing the baserunner. If you stick the guy ahead of your worst hitters, he can just take off at the first opportunity, without worrying so much about the cost of the lost runner. Then, if he gets on third with one out by swiping second and third, just squeeze him home, or hey, a sac fly scores him.

I wonder why no one does this? I’m sure there are reasons, but I’m honestly not seeing them.

It was half my fault, and half the atmosphere.

by the red baron on Dec 14, 2008 4:51 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That isn't a bad idea at all

Also, you’d have to figure that most ‘bad" hitters are more slappy guys anyway. If you have some guy running like mad in front of a slappy dude it’s the difference between slapping a guy from first to second to maybe slapping him home from second.

I commend you for a bright idea, my good man. 35 Schrutebucks for you.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 14, 2008 8:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can you tell me...

the exchange rate for Schrutebucks to Stanley Nickels?

by Jumsy on Dec 15, 2008 3:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And...

compare both to the internet dollar?

by stlfan on Dec 15, 2008 4:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A Schrutebuck is equal to 1/100th of a cent, I believe...

…so whatever the conversion of regular dollars is to internet dollars, that is the value.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 15, 2008 7:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's about the same...

…as the ratio of unicorns to leprechauns.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 15, 2008 7:40 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's a good idea

but the consequence of a failed stolen base with the pitcher up is that you aren’t getting through the lineup as quickly. If you make an out on the basepaths with two outs, you’ve got your pitcher leading off.

by Toddius on Dec 15, 2008 11:53 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And yes, please pick up Daniel Cabrera

by Czechguardsman on Dec 13, 2008 12:29 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can we stash D-Cabrera as a MR?

Can we grab him and put him in middle relief? The guy might fare a lot better if he doesn’t have to face a lineup multiple times. It could be the start of a reclamation project to get him back being a productive starter.

Imagine he and McCormick in the rotation at AA or AAA. Grab your helmets, boys.

by siddfynch on Dec 13, 2008 4:18 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Duncan seems to work wonders with those tall right-handers. Carpenter, Morris, Wainwright... etc.

Cabrera tanked in Baltimore but he might do better in the more functional Cardinal organization. I was surprised Baltimore non-tendered him. I think he could have a turn-around like Carpenter in 2004. The key is to have him compete with Piniero for the last rotation spot so Piniero comes into Spring Training in shape and motivated.

by Czechguardsman on Dec 13, 2008 4:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seeing this list

reminds me of that quote from some MLB exec awhile back that was soemthing to the effect of “the difference between contenders and also-rans is the understanding that talent is not scarce” or something to that effect.

Crazy what some of the contracts are out there (e.g., Jason Marquis) when guys like Redding and Gomes are available for so (relatively) little.

by siddfynch on Dec 13, 2008 4:22 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you use the "reply"

button, it’ll be easier to follow your comments.

And Taveras only value is as a pinch runner, which is to say he has very little value at all.

by spants on Dec 13, 2008 4:51 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I accidentaly replied to the comment. Mental mistake… sorry.

by Czechguardsman on Dec 13, 2008 10:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He was awful last year

.251/.308/.296

That’s about as little power as anyone can possibly have. That might be okay if he got on base. Or if he was exceptional in the field.

He’s fast. End of skill set.

by mojowo11 on Dec 13, 2008 7:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You could do alot worse for your 4th outfielder than Willy Taveras. He is certainly an upgrade over Brian Barton and in my opinion about on a par with Skip Schumaker. He would be worth a look batting leadoff. Someone is going to jump on him and give him a nice two year deal. He brings lots of steals and infield hits and would spike Pujols’s RBI totals.

He’s only 26 years old, and he had 18 extra base hits last year to go with 68 steals, which, if you evaluate it like I do, means 86 Extra base hits….. 10 more than Pujols had last year. Still, he only scored 64 runs in 2008, so he was having problems getting past 2B.

I thought he was a terrible CF and overrated prospect with Houston(As their prospects usually are.) I suspect a team like Seattle or Toronto will give him a sweet deal, and the Cards are looking to trade OFs anyway.

by Czechguardsman on Dec 13, 2008 10:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hitting

Taveras had some pretty good stretches of hitting. I don’t understand why he isn’t more consistent. I think he may have potential to improve if he had some good coaching. But, we don’t need an outfielder and if we were going to get one I’d prefer Manny. :)

by abothecardinal on Dec 13, 2008 10:47 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rant time
You could do alot worse for your 4th outfielder than Willy Taveras.

Not really. He’s horrible.

He is certainly an upgrade over Brian Barton and in my opinion about on a par with Skip Schumaker.

Barton in 2008: .268/.354/.392
Taveras in 2008: .251/.308/.296

Barton posted a better average, better on-base abilities, and showed a ton more power.

Schumaker in 2008: .302/.359/.406
Taveras in 2008: .251/.308/.296

Same for Schumaker. Better at everything.

Willy Taveras is horrible in comparison to either of these guys. Last year he posted a .604 OPS in Coors Field! He posted a lower OPS than Looper and Waino did last year. He hit worse than every single Cardinal player that got at least 100 ABs except Brendan Ryan. He sucks. Hard.

He would be worth a look batting leadoff.

It’s pretty common knowledge at this point that the most important skill in a leadoff hitter is the ability to get on base. We need someone who will get on so Pujols can drive them in. Willy Taveras’ OBP last year was .308, which is essentially awful.

Someone is going to jump on him and give him a nice two year deal.

That’s very, very doubtful. He’s one of the worst hitters in baseball and his fielding is poor for someone with his amount of raw speed. Fast is nice, but it’s pointless when you kinda suck at hitting.
He brings lots of steals and infield hits and would spike Pujols’s RBI totals.

First of all, he would not spike Albert’s RBI totals because he sucks at getting on base. To score runs, you have to get on. Second, steals don’t spike Albert’s RBI totals. In fact, if Taveras (somehow) got on first base and stole second, the other team is just going to walk Pujols.

He brings lots of steals, but he sucks at hitting. I can’t repeat this enough. Just being able to steal bases doesn’t make a player good. It just makes them fast.

He’s only 26 years old

Barton’s 26, too, and he’s already a better hitter than Taveras. Yet for some reason, you seem to think he’s worthless.

hits….. 10 more than Pujols had last year.

That’s a pretty silly way to evaluate that, especially considering that he surely stole third base several times. Plus he got thrown out 7 times, which is like turning a baserunner into an out…how does that fit into your equation? Not to mention the fact that singling and stealing second isn’t an extra-base hit because it doesn’t advance runners on base as far — singling with a runner on first and then stealing second isn’t as good as doubling with a runner on first. Equating those two things makes little sense.

Still, he only scored 64 runs in 2008, so he was having problems getting past 2B.

He only scored 64 runs last year because he sucked at getting on base. He’s never scored 100 runs because he’s never been any good at reaching base. Plus, as long as we’re looking at runs, you’ll notice he doesn’t accumulate any RBIs. That’s because he has no power. He’s not good at scoring runs or driving them in. He’s pretty worthless.

I thought he was a terrible CF and overrated prospect with Houston(As their prospects usually are.)

You were right. Although he actually had a couple decent defensive years early on. But now he’s terrible at that, too. So congratulations — you called it.

I suspect a team like Seattle or Toronto will give him a sweet deal, and the Cards are looking to trade OFs anyway.

Willy Taveras will be lucky if he gets a minor league deal. He’s not going to get a “sweet deal” because he’s coming off the worst year in a pretty awful career. The Rockies were trying to play him last year to drum up interest, but nobody wanted him.

Long tirade, I’m sorry. And I don’t mean to pick on you. But it would be a very bad idea to get enamored with Taveras’ raw speed and base-stealing ability and think that he’s a good player (much less a better player than what we’ve got). Taveras needs to stay as far away from the Cardinals as possible. He’s a truly awful player.

by mojowo11 on Dec 13, 2008 11:19 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Golly...

…you really like Taveras, don’t you?
;=8)

by The MooCow on Dec 13, 2008 11:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I lubs him!!!! <3

No really though, I don’t hate him. I just want him nowhere near the Cardinals.

Plus, I get frustrated when people equated speed or SB with ability.

by mojowo11 on Dec 13, 2008 11:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not too far away

It would be great if someone in our division actually gave him 600 PAs.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Dec 13, 2008 11:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't the Cubs...

need another player with a low OBP to play outfield?

by Jumsy on Dec 15, 2008 3:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No worries

Word is they’re signing Gathright.

by mojowo11 on Dec 16, 2008 6:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hmm, maybe they could trade for bourns,

then they could have three outfielders who could just zip back to the dugout really fast after they grounded out.

by tom s. on Dec 16, 2008 7:28 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well you certainly proved the point that he is a one-dimensional player.

I agree with you on all counts. I don’t mean to suggest by my comparision with Pujols that Taveras is anywhere near as productive as Pujols. It would just be tough to eschew a player with 68 steals and all of his infield hits, despite his lack of prowess in other areas.

But don’t worry, there is a 0 % chance he will be a Cardinal next year. I’d rather see Wigginton.

by Czechguardsman on Dec 14, 2008 4:03 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no...its really easy to eschew him

he would be taking playing time away from productive players…stolen bases or not

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 14, 2008 4:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dude...

…he’s worse than ANY player on the Cardinals 2008 roster. Who cares if he’s fast and has lots of infield hits and steals bases? That doesn’t mean jack shit.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 16, 2008 2:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But What About...

…our Grit? I liked Aaron Miles, a lot! But I would love to see us get Wiggy at second and Nelson in the pen – those are two VERY fortunate non-tenders who cud really help the club. I see a lot of O’s games, benig so close to Baltimoo, so the Cabrerra idea is intriguing, but I really wouldn’t do moore than do the ol’ AAA signing/spring training invite. the man needs work on his game. I actually think Redding is a safer choice. And isn’t Majewski a LOOGY

by The MooCow on Dec 13, 2008 4:43 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Initially I thought so too

but after looking at Redding’s tRA in comparison with others (Sheets, RJ), I have to say “No.”

If Mo isn’t going to sign either of these guys, I’d rather he give Boggs or K-Mac a shot at the fifth spot.

Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song:

by gocards62 on Dec 14, 2008 10:19 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We'd probably have to compete with the Twins for Wigginton.

Wigginton hasn’t played 2nd since 2007, when he played at 39 games at 2B for TB. If his defense would suck, it would be hard to find playing time for him in 3B or the OF.

I still think the organization has no plans to enter 2009 with Adam Kennedy. They just have to make him not look so disgruntled so that they can actually move him somewhere. Wigginton can sure hit, but its a big risk to take wondering if he’ll be capable enough at 2B.

In any case, I think they’ll use the entire budget for pitching.

Joe Nelson, Clay Hensley, Daniel Cabrera, Wil Ledezma: 4 good pitchers to look into. Very surprised by Nelson and Hensley.

by Czechguardsman on Dec 13, 2008 10:46 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Twins would want Wigginton.

I think Cleveland, Florida, and the Chicago White Sox would too.

Hensley’s had surgery. That means he’s the one the Cardinals will sign.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Dec 14, 2008 9:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wigginton is a bigger guy...

which probably is a major factor with his range. Since Tampa plays on Turf, I think using 2007 would be a bad example. I’m not saying he is a great defensive player by any means, but I think he could be serviceable at 2B. Ron Belliard does it (so maybe he takes that shallow RF approach to 2nd), and you also forget he will be working with the Secret Weapon. Can you imagine his numbers in the 2 hole in front of Pujols?

by Jumsy on Dec 15, 2008 3:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i think the Wigginton issue for the cards is money.

I saw $7m being knocked about. We’d have to find someone to take kennedy and his salary. That and $7m is a lot for a guy without major 2b experience, though he might well be serviceable there.

by tom s. on Dec 15, 2008 3:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A few interests.

Clay Hensley (29)- A guy who’s never put up compelling numbers. Mediocre fastball. Decent changeup. Terrible K/BB ratio. Looks like his 5.3 ERA in 2008 might have been lucky.
Joe Nelson (34)- Big K/9 supported by a big swing%. Walked less in 2008 than his career average as well, culminating in a pretty decent season out of the pen. I guess the main question is, why would we need another aging bullpen arm when that spot is covered by Franklin and we could have had Springer. That said, his skills seem to be much closer to Springer than Franklin, and although his 2.00 ERA is anomalous, 3.5 wouldn’t be terrible.
Daniel Cabrera (27)- Cabrera is hard to resist because there’s just so much potential there. Sort of like Oliver Perez or Dontrelle Willis in 2006. And those two are basically the two possible outcomes. Unfortunately, his skillset has just stagnated badly the last few seasons, eventually culminating in a horrific 2008 with a K rate at less than half his career high, and a K/BB right around 1.0. He doesn’t appear to be fixable in any simple way.
Wil Ledezma (27)- Sort of all over the place. He’s actually been increasing his K rate and velocity the last few seasons (mostly from the switch to the bullpen). However, his walk rate has kept pace and his K/BB is still terrible, at around 1.3. His HR rate is low. His babip seems normal. Posted fantastic numbers in a short stint in triple-A in 2008, and the skills seem to be there. Interesting player overall, but he definitely still needs to get a lot of things together.
Ty Wiggington (31) – Ex-Astro hitter/utility man. Is it possible he could play 2B? Yeah, sure. Will he be good at it? No. Played mostly below-average 3B and above-average LF in 2008. Hitting abilities are absolutely real. Excellent power (he could hit more than 30 HRs if he ever got enough ABs). Decent patience. All-hit, very little field player, not really the cardinals style.
Chris Burke (28) – Another Ex-Astro, this one basically the opposite of Wiggington. Projects as an above average 2B, decent to good outfielder, and maybe even an okay SS. Cannot hit. Never has hit. No power to speak of. Some patience. Honestly, the Diamondbacks need him, considering their defense.
Takashi Saito (39) – My favorite. Even at his age still gets it up into the low (sometimes mid) nineties, and despite his nicks and bruises is generally lights out. Great K/9. K/BB very good. Bad reputation for health, but is essentially a better version of Russ Springer.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Dec 14, 2008 12:57 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hazel, i looked real close at nelson. he seems like an okay pickup.

the dirt on rotoworld was he was asking for $800K and the marlins would only offer $650k.

he could definitely be a poor man’s springer on our team — his advantage would be that he would show up at ST for less than $1m and springer will likely run us $4m or $5m and cost a draft pick. My concern is that the guy just can’t stay in the majors. his history makes last year likely to be a fluke. still, if he’s willing to work for just over twice the minimum, i hardly see the downside in offering him a $800k invite to ST.

even with our depth in the bullpen, If he doesn’t pan out or gets bumped by somebody else, he seem like someone we could flip for a AA player without too much difficulty in april or may for someone in need of a reliever.

even though I think we have good bullpen options, I do think that we could look for someone like him to fill a 6 or 7th inning role. I see perez, motte, and kinney filling out the 8th and 9th inning roles well. We still have franklin, yes, and kmac. It might be nice to have a depth guy in case of injuries, in case we need to rotate some of the guys with options through AAA to keep them fresh, or in case KMac ends up in the rotation. $800k is not a bad flyer on a guy who posted a 2.00 era last year, whatever his history is.

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2008 4:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In principle, I agree with you.

If you’re the marlins. It was stupid to let him go, because he was cost-effective. He is a relatively sure bet.

As I said, my favorite player on that list is Saito, because unlike a cheaper, slightly less effective Springer like Nelson, he’s a better, slightly more expensive Springer (3.5M?).

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Dec 14, 2008 6:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if we can land at least one starter and have cash left over,

then he probably makes sense. The cards have the depth in the pen to give someone like him a shot without blowing the season if he is not healthy.

still, i see him as more a luxury than an essential element of the team. and given the health concerns, I’m not sure I could pick him over springer.

by tom s. on Dec 14, 2008 10:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

id have interest in

ledezma, capuano, cabrera and possible belisle, burke and chuck james

Come on 2009!

by benstl on Dec 14, 2008 4:14 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I kind of like Ledezma

He has decent stuff and he is a lefty. He could be the possible swingman that we are looking for. He can start and can be used as a specialist.

by vivaelpujols on Dec 15, 2008 12:32 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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