Hot Stove Catch-all Thread 12-10 Until 300 Comments or so
by dunc4life on Dec 10, 2008 8:55 PM EST
329 comments
Let's see what's in the winter meeting news today:
- Well, so it looks like Mo/rumor monkeys have been busy with reliever-related business for the Redbirds. So far, the Cards have been linked to: K-ROD, Fuentes, Beimel, Valverde, Capps, Putz, Rauch, and more!
- rumors have been flying that Mo has an offer out to Zdurnieck(sp?) for Putz, consisting of Ank + prospect (Motte's name has been used here, recently). I just can't see Ank wearing any other uniform. It just seems infathomable
- So we're stuck with Kennedy. I guess that's decent if Greene is able to bounce back and we keep Miles around, but you never know...
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I shoulda voted for trade for other starter
but… I just couldn’t. just say no to JJ, I don’t want no putzes on the team! (or do I?)
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 10, 2008 9:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
that reminds me
I forgot to commend DanUp for his use of apostrophes the other day… can you remember which ones?
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 10, 2008 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i voted...
for the ankiel/motte trade…but that was before i saw the last option. That is just way too much
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2008 9:17 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
does seizing a Rule 5 acquisition count as a move? cause I think that happens tomorrow.
by tom s. on Dec 10, 2008 9:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why in the world.....
Would we move Ankiel AND Motte for Putz? Honestly……I’m not sure I’d move Motte for him straight up. Or Ankiel.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Dec 10, 2008 9:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe...
all this closer talk is just to appease LaDunc? I would seriously hope Mo isn’t this dumb.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 10, 2008 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No.....
Mo knows we need bullpen help, and probably a closer. I don’t disagree with looking for a closer, I just think that is a ****-load to trade for a guy that spent last year hurt and ineffective. I’d rather give the $’s to Fuentes, and move Ank for a young SP or 2B.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Dec 10, 2008 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to see
-trade Ankiel for Sonnastine+prospect
-sign Fuentes to a 3 year deal (then trade him after 09, or even before the trade deadline this
year, when Perez/Motte is ready)
-sign Brad Penny to a 1 year deal
-non tender Randy Flores
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2008 10:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like it
Except I don’t think the Rays would give us Sonnastine AND a prospect. We would probably be the ones to include a prospect in that deal. On the other hand, rumor has it that the Tigers just got Jackson for Joyce. Which might mean that Ank alone could have gotten it done, but now that the Rays are down a pitcher I wonder if they’d consider trading Sonnastine anyway.
by abothecardinal on Dec 10, 2008 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not
They do have great depth but Jackson and Sonnastine were tied for the team lead in wins last year so i doubt they will trade both. Hopefully there is another team with and excess of young starting pitching (the Blue Jays maybe?), but young starting pitching seems to be what every team is looking for.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 10, 2008 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Ank alone could have gotten it done"
I’m not sure about that… sonnanstine >> jackson, and 6 years of this Joyce kid looks better on the trade market than 1 year of ankiel, even if ank hits 40 HR next year.
god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs
by SleepyCA on Dec 11, 2008 1:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
has anybody asked about the money here? presuming the rumor is accurate,
even accepting the notion that we should sign fuentes AND that we should sign him for three years, why is it costing us $33M? The Mets got k-rod for $37m. Why is there only a $4m discount for fuentes?
Wood is going for $20m for two years. Is fuentes a better closer than wood? really? the market is set such that i would think fuentes is more like a $25-28m over 3 years kind of guy.
by tom s. on Dec 11, 2008 5:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno...
The Cardinals paid Izzy almost $9 million a year. This doesn’t seem to be that big a jump, it’s not like Fuentes a terrible pitcher. Especially factoring in where he pitched.
And as perverse as it may seem (given they have more money to work with), teams in NY don’t really have to pay players as much. Because players can make a lot more money in endorsements in a big city like NY (especially NY) than they can in a city like St. Louis, not to mention get national attention as well.
My guess is, K-Rod really really wanted to go to NY.
Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro
by DiscoJer on Dec 11, 2008 6:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Before last year
Izzy was a great closer, espcially in 07.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 13, 2008 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great is pretty generous
Pretty good in his good years, sucked horribly two of the last three. Has only made 2 All-Star teams in his career.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Dec 13, 2008 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Excepting save totals
Fuentes was actually a better pitcher than K-Rod was last year…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Dec 11, 2008 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jackson
I’m really glad the Tigers appear to have taken Jackson before we could – that guy really frightens me. Same kind of relief as when I saw Renteria was off the market.
by siddfynch on Dec 10, 2008 10:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Apparently
TLR has said that tehir number 1 priority now is signing Fuentes. I dont know if I like the team coming out and saying that, but Fuentes in the 9th, Perez in the 8th and Motte/McClellan in the 7th along with the LOOGYS sounds like a pretty good bullpen to me, I myself prefer Matt Capps, but Fuentes is good enough. That leaves the possibilty to trade Ank for another starter and bring Rasmus up.
On another note, does Glaus have a NTC?
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic.-Bull Durham
by pujols_5 on Dec 10, 2008 10:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well
Glaus did have a no-trade clause, but he waived it to come here. So, I don’t know if it’s still intact or not. Anyone with greater knowledge of these matters have an answer?
by spants on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, it's still intact
but if he waived it once, you’d think he’d do it again.
god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs
by SleepyCA on Dec 11, 2008 1:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably would depend on
who he’s being traded to.
by spants on Dec 11, 2008 2:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good point.
I kind of like him, anyway, esp as a leadoff man, though I don’t think TLR will ever go for it.
god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs
by SleepyCA on Dec 11, 2008 2:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking
Maybe we should try to trade him to the Philles who have an obvious need at 3rd, or maybe the As who for all the trading they did last year are still looking to be contenders. I cant think of anyone else who maychesup. Eiter way i hope he has a monster year. Next winter itll be nice to get those 2 draft picks. Dollars to donuts he doesnt reup here.
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic.-Bull Durham
by pujols_5 on Dec 11, 2008 5:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I would hope he doesn’t re-up here. The Cards have a couple of in-house options that will help ease the payroll situation. Maybe then we can sign a free-agent starter.
by spants on Dec 11, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
glaus will be an example of a no-brainer arbitration offer candidate, unless he gets hurt this season. He probably won’t accept, and if he does, he loses his no-trade clause and should have plenty of value on the trade market. In fact, he probably has enough value that you almost hope he accepts.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 11, 2008 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He seems
Like a smart guy, he probably knows the situation, but then again if the market next year is anything like it is this year, hell he just might accept/
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic.-Bull Durham
by pujols_5 on Dec 12, 2008 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if Glaus was a FA
this year, he’d be a hot commodity I would bet.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Dec 12, 2008 5:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda wish that poll was
what should* Mo’s next move be?
because what I think will happen and what I want to happen are two entirely different things.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 10, 2008 11:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cards may not be not too far off- Plan of action
Sign Fuentes- this give Cards an above average pen
Trade Shumaker/prospect for a LOOGY
Let Glaus walk at end of 2009
Move Walrus or Mr. Freeze into 2010 lineup
Use Glaus $ to resign Ank if he produces and stays healthy in 2009…
That leave $5-$6 mil. to hold onto to look for another Loose type deal prior to ST
or to use with prospect based tade
by Bobmang on Dec 10, 2008 11:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
Let Mather replace Ank after ’09 in the starting lineup if Ank stays w/ us this season. Albert is gonna cost us a bunch, especially if Tex is getting 8yr/$160mil+ offers.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 11, 2008 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
20 mil a year for pujols would be a robbery
He is worth around 45 million.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 11, 2008 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's my point exactly
If Texieria gets around 20 mil a year, and Pujols is absurdly better than him, he will cost an absurdly large amount more….
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 11, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
top tier talent is (at times) underpaid
because it’s hard to rationalize AAV’s on the order of $20M or more. Stop and think about Pujols getting his WAR value for a moment — that would be the entire salary of some teams.
by azruavatar on Dec 11, 2008 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand
I’d see AP costing us $25-30 mil per year because I don’t see him being a guy who will want to just sign for as much money as he possibly can. (I don’t care who you are $20 million a year is an absurdly large amount of money in the first place.) Whatever the case, we need to re-sign APu as soon as possible.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 11, 2008 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
why?
he’s under contract until 2011, right?
I think there are argument to be made, but I’m not sure which one you’re making.
Is he more likely to sign with us now, rather than another team? likely to sign for less $?
If I were Mo, I would be concerned that if I sign albert now, and the bottom falls out of baseball revenues that I would be bound for years to come. what if the economy gets so bad budgets start to shrink? It’s happening in some towns.
There’s also just the concern that albert could be severely injured tomorrow and never play again.
I think it could cut either way. The market for pujols could explode over the next few years or contract. why do we need to sign him right now?
by tom s. on Dec 11, 2008 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There was a poll on this
when RB did the voting post. Most here agree that Albert should be re-signed either now, or at the very latest after ’09. To try and answer your questions:
A) Re-signing w/ us now eliminates the possibility that the Yankees or Red Sox give him an offer we can’t match in 2011. I see Albert as a career Cardinal, but you can’t dispute the power of money. Just two days ago CC says he wants to be a Dodger, now he’s a Yankee.
B) We are likely to sign him for less money now because the scary thing about Albert is that he will probably get better, and thus, be even more valuable and garner a larger contract after ’09 or ’10 or ’11.
C) I seriously doubt Mo is so scared of the baseball revenue falling out that he won’t try and re-sign the player that puts the most fans in the stands. Not keeping Pujols around could do just as much harm to the Cardinals’ revenue as a further dip in the economy.
D) This talk about Pujols being an injury risk is a little overrated to me. At the start of last season everyone was worried during ST about APu’s elbow. Well, he didn’t miss a single game because of it and put up his best season yet on the way to another MVP title. And any player could get severly injured tomorrow and never play again. It’s a gamble yes, but Pujols is worth the gamble.
Basically if the market does explode for Pujols over the next few years then there is less likelihood we will be able to re-sign him because teams like the Yankees and Red Sox will be competing for him. If the market contracts, then at least we have re-signed him now when he is still relatively cheap for the production he gives us. Hope this helped to explain where I’m coming from.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 11, 2008 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i was mostly questioning the "right now" v. 2009-2010.
I realize the hazard of waiting till his contract totally expires.
i wasn’t even necessarily talking about his elbow. if anything, his elbow is easily repairable and we’d lose him for one season, maybe one and a half. I just mean the general hazard that a player could become totally non-functional. not albert-specific injury concerns.
by tom s. on Dec 11, 2008 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said we need to sign him "right now"
Just as soon as possible and re-signing him after ‘09 is ASAP in my head. Sorry I didn’t make that distinction.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 12, 2008 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope they do sign him early....
how would you ever replace a player like him? If CC is getting what he gets now as a FA, what would Albert be offered if he became a FA in 2-3 years? I can’t even imagine how high the offers would go!
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby
by thegashousegang on Dec 12, 2008 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
According to mlbtraderumors.com
Putz goes to the Mets as part of a three team deal. I can not tell you how happy I am that he is off the market which would prevent Mo from doing anything stupid, like say Ludwick+prospect for Putz which is what they wanted.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
With abetter bullpen & better health (Carp/Ank/Mang/Wang-right)…
Cards will be fine!!!
by Bobmang on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
question
anybody else think that Mo is asking too much in his trade talks? i mean, i like that fact that he comes out shooting and sticking to his guns put you gotta give a little. not trading an outfielder this offseason would be a bad move in terms of opportunity cost. not only for colby, but for mather, barton, and skip. looking at some of the outfields in the NL all four of those players could be starters somewhere.
it seems the same thing is happening now that happened with reyes. he never seemed to budge on his demands and eventually we ended up with a oldish AA reliever.
i know he is a new GM and wants to be taken seriously but eventually you have to compromise right? now i’m not saying that we should give them away and maybe rival GM’s are still trying to fleece him but its a disturbing trend.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
by FutureMan on Dec 11, 2008 2:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mo is probably
relying on his ability to trade from the glut of OFers mid-season. No need to rush a trade is probably how he’s looking at it.
by spants on Dec 11, 2008 2:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately
There seems to be a glut of outfielders available out there right now. I mean, seriously, has anyone heard a damn thing about Pat Burrell? He’s a very good player and I haven’t heard a peep about there being a market for him.
by mojowo11 on Dec 11, 2008 3:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
phillies should trade howard
and re-sign burrell to play first base.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 11, 2008 3:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's actually a pretty interesting idea
I bet you could get some seriously huge offers for a guy like Howard, well beyond his actual abilities.
That said, he remains the face of their franchise, so they’d never do that. Plus, the fans there already kinda don’t like Burrell. There’d be riots.
by mojowo11 on Dec 11, 2008 3:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
howard for cain would be interesting
i hear the giants are looking for a left-handed first baseman…
Burrell has an outside shot at 500 HR, which probably won’t get him into the HOF these days, but if he stayed in one city (PHI) the whole time, it might make the difference.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 11, 2008 3:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This makes a lot of sense for both teams...
Giants get Ryan Howard
Phillies get Tim Lincecum/Matt Cain and Bengie Molina
Phillies then re-sign Burrell and move him to 1B, then sign Raul Ibanez with the money that Howard was making to replace his left-handed bat in the lineup.
That would make the Phillies a better ballclub, and would help San Francisco too, by getting them a power hitter in the middle of their lineup. Howard would be worth more being traded than he would be as a player….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Dec 11, 2008 10:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is no way...
that the Giants give up Lincecum for Howard. Lincecum is off limits.
Also, why would the Phillies of all teams need to replace a LH bat in the lineup? I’m pretty sure Utley, Rollins, Victorino, and now Ibanez are all capable of hitting LH.
by Jumsy on Dec 15, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ummmmm
then sign Raul Ibanez with the money that Howard was making to replace his left-handed bat in the lineup.
They don’t, but I pretty well predicted that they were going to sign one, and I even happened to pick the right left handed hitter at the time.
The Giants have done stupider things, are flush with young pitchers in the minors and have no power hitters in the high minors to speak of. As I said, “this makes a lot of sense for both teams”, not that they’d do it, just that it made a lot of sense.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Dec 15, 2008 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i know
i just wanted to make the “giants LH 1B” joke one last time.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 15, 2008 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so is that the deal?
that is the last time that joke is told? Hot damn!
I suppose you were probably speaking for just yourself though.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 15, 2008 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
by all means...
continue the joke.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 15, 2008 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not really
he pulled off that Greene trade with perfection. I have no problem with him not making dumb deals.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 11, 2008 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting option at second base
Apparently some dude named Junior Spivey is looking for work. Anyone know anything about this guy?
by mojowo11 on Dec 11, 2008 3:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yea
Isn’t he the one who messed up Rolens’ shoulder the first time? In the NLDS?….I have a dislike of that man, he couldve easily run around Scottie
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic.-Bull Durham
by pujols_5 on Dec 11, 2008 5:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no that is not spivey
but i think he might e looking for work too…that that guy was citron?
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Dec 11, 2008 6:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he still exists?
I figured about his .200 season in memphis, he’d decide to just call it quits (or maybe hit up an independent club)
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 11, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A former 2B of the future: reborn!
it’s deja vu all over again, for the first (well, second if you count Adam Kennedy) time!
by mattybobo on Dec 11, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of the phils,
they are looking for a corner outfielder, and they might ship Happ out. If the Rays are off the market, I think we should investigate Philly. Ankiel and Anderson might make that work — the backstop has been an unstable spot for them. they also have little in the way of third basemen.
Toronto and the yankees seem like other good places to pick up young cost-controlled pitchers.
by tom s. on Dec 11, 2008 5:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think Anderson will have better trade value after next year
He will be only be 22 and his power and defensive skills will only improve with age. Freese on the other hand is the guy to trade. He will be 26 and he doesn’t really have a future on the team. Also he is coming off a huge year, but he was never a top prospect before that. Ankiel and Freese could get us a lot on the trading block. Probably something even better that Happ
by vivaelpujols on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see Freese on our ML roster
Why does everyone here forget about Craig? The man had a great year in AA and would have been called up if Freese wasn’t around. I think Freese could be to us in ‘09, what Spiezio was in ’06. Some power and versatility off the bench. He’d back up Glaus and Pujols whenever one of them needs a day off and TLR would probably throw him into the outfield as well. Craig has solid power and potential, but has almost no chance of making it to the bigs with us because he is sandwiched between Freese and Wallace. He’s a player to trade, IMHO.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 11, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree runninredbird,freese and anderson are the ideal candidates to traded should get a decent loogy in return.
by welshcardsfan on Dec 11, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Me confused
You agree with me that Freese shouldn’t be traded or that Craig is overlooked? Cause you say Freese and Anderson are our best trade chips. Did I miss something here?
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 11, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry mate,i meant craig and anderson are our most sensible trade options,my apologies.
by welshcardsfan on Dec 11, 2008 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No worries
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 11, 2008 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Felipe Lopez
just signed with the Dbacks for 3.5 for 1 year. Actually a lot less than I thought he was looking for.
by JBagKY on Dec 11, 2008 9:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Crap
That’s double jeopardy for us — we lost the opportunity to bring Lopez back AND the D-Backs just sewed up their 2B for next year, leaving us with no trade partner for Kennedy.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Dec 11, 2008 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I, respectfully, disagree
I was relieved to see the signing because it means we CAN’T bring Floppy back. IMHO, the possibility of Kennedy maintaining his offensive gains from last year is greater than the possibility of Lopez continuing to hit like he did with the Cards. Throw in Kennedy’s much better defense, and I’d rather have AK.
by ArkansasTravs on Dec 11, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Either way
It fills a hole that we could have dumped salary to fill had we found a replacement at second base (which doesn’t seem likely, I know), and we lost an opportunity to sign a utility infielder (albeit a bad one).
It’s not about who I’d rather have, it’s about the fact that two options just went off of the table with one signing.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Dec 12, 2008 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
brandon webb's 2009 ERA just went up .25.
by tom s. on Dec 11, 2008 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Webb...
…has entered a lab to determine the best way to make groundballs NOT go to 2nd base…he will cross his fingers that lefties DON’T roll over any of his sinkers, because that means Mr. Lopez will have to field it.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 12, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Eaton
What about Eaton as our fifth starter, the phillies will trade him for nothing and said they would pay 8 of his 9 million dollar salary, he’s a cheaper investment than Clement was last year. And by the way Perdoma the guy we got for Reyes last year, is almost certain to be lost in the Rule 5 draft today according to baseball america
by eburn40oz on Dec 11, 2008 11:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This was brought up yesterday.
Adam Eaton is a terrible pitcher, far worse than all of the Cards’ current starting pitchers. He is worse than Piniero.
People give STDs away for free. Doesn’t mean it’s a good deal.
by spants on Dec 11, 2008 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
+1
and LMAO…
"A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by TurdFerguson on Dec 12, 2008 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rays traded Edwin Jackson for Tigers lefty OF
I’d seen we were linked to Jackson in exchange for our lefty OF Skip or Ank. The guy the Rays got for Jackson was probably somewhere between Skip and Ank’s value. Wish we could have gotten him maybe for Skip and another prospect.
I’m hoping big time that we can get a young starter for Skippy or Ank.
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Reds just landed Rhodes
for 2 years/$4M. hmm…i’d have been happy if we landed him on that deal. Its a little frustrating when you see others teams landing guys for resonable money or making trades that we could have matched also.
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Dec 11, 2008 12:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So who's still a viable option to pursue now?
I haven’t heard anything on Ohman recently
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 11, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Arthur Rhodes is ancient
I wouldn’t want him on a two-year deal. He can only get lefties out nowadays.
by mojowo11 on Dec 11, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ohman
I hope we can sign Ohman, but then again if we are able to get Fuentes then that will give us two for sure lefties(miller) and that still leaves Johnson and Flores to be decided on, so Im not sure how hard they will pursue another lefty. I think baring a closer the bullpen is pretty much set now
by eburn40oz on Dec 11, 2008 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ill never
Understand why these guys, who have more money than they could ever spend.4million seriously? Why they go to non contenders? Hes gottaknow te N.L central was THE toughest division in baseball, 4 teams with 86 + wins, and he chose to Cincie?WTF?Anyways im sure Walt was more than happy to snatc him out from under us, Mr. Rhodes, enjoy losing in cincinati , and i cant wait until the day you come in to get a lefty out, and Rick takes you deep to clicnh the pennant
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic.-Bull Durham
by pujols_5 on Dec 12, 2008 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pedroma
We lost him to the Giants in the Rule 5 draft, so we pretty much traded Reyes for 2 month of a double A pitcher. Not such a great move when this off season we are looking for a young 5th starter type pitcher.
by eburn40oz on Dec 11, 2008 12:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would bet that he doesn't make the whole year in the majors
so they offfer a prospect back yo us so they can send him down
by bearcatcardfan on Dec 11, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NO
They give him back and we still get to keep the $50,000 they paid to take him
by eburn40oz on Dec 11, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean if you want him back thats one thing
but if the giants want him that badfly they can trade us for him and then send him to the minors. I will put 10 internet dollars on pedromo not staying on their 25-man roster all year
by bearcatcardfan on Dec 11, 2008 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Guys, guys,
we got $50,000 for Reyes.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Dec 19, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If your point is
that we should feel fortunate to have gotten $50,000 for Reyes then I don’t think you understand how incredibly small a sum that is in major league baseball.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Dec 19, 2008 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who the hell is Reyes?
Jose?
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Dec 11, 2008 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anthony?
/Can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you missed the great anthony reyes debacle of 2005-07?!?
that’s like watching return of the jedi and saying “who’s that guy in the carbonite?”
by tom s. on Dec 12, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell
is return of the jedi?
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Dec 12, 2008 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's about a guy
who has limited experience above A ball, but still wins the ROY and finishes fourth in the MVP voting.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Dec 12, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Dont Need to worry about Putz coming to STL
http://rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=253021
Mets acquired RHP J.J. Putz, OF Jeremy Reed and RHP Sean Green; Mariners acquired OF Franklin Gutierrez, RHP Aaron Heilman, 1B Mike Carp, OF Endy Chavez, LHP Jason Vargas, OF Ezequiel Carrera and RHP Maikel Cleto; Indians acquired RHP Joe Smith and 2B Luis Valbuena
Trade Ankiel instead of Luddy!!! Why go buy an impact bat when we got one?
by Ibeatanorexia06 on Dec 11, 2008 1:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
good for the Mariners
That’s exactly the kind of deal they needed to rebuild. As a resident of Seattle, I’m pretty excited about that trade.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 11, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Am I the only one advocating waiting?
There are still a lot of good starters out there. Just hold off and see what is left after a couple guys have signed. There is not enough money out there to pay all of them what they are asking for. If Oliver Perez is really asking for 5 years @ 70 million, he’ll be around for a while and maybe settle for a cheaper contract. Who knows how long Johnson or Sheets will be around, there doesn’t appear to be anything imminent. Wait around a while and the price to land a good FA pitcher will go down.
Or blow all the money now on Fuentes. Everyone will be happy for a few days, then just begin begging for MO to make another deal after they realize the offseason is boring again.
by TheBirds on Dec 11, 2008 5:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
so far the off season has gone exactly as I predicted and others pessimisticly thought
i wonder if it’s pessisim though when we see it each yr during meetings and deadlines…be mentioned in every big guy(cept cc) and come up with nothing and have some minor moves…
I’m not sure what I would do differently except I would push for a starter hard instead of a closer..carp is no guarentee
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Dec 11, 2008 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would too, but he's kinda being shoved that way by LaRussa's comments
It’s Johnson or Sheets for me.
by TheBirds on Dec 11, 2008 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing?
Maybe you’re referring specifically to the 4-day Vegas thing, but this offseason has so far been all but universally hailed as a raging success thus far. The Greene and Miller signings, to me and a lot of other people, were swift and look to be effective, but they weren’t hasty and still allow for a lot of flexibility. I think in his short tenure as GM, Mo has proven himself a frugal spender and someone who won’t be taken hostage by the coaching staff (see: Anthony Reyes): with the apparent interest among the Angels and especially the Brewers for Fuentes, he’s going to be expensive, and frankly, I would be surprised if Mo spent the type of money it will cost on any non-marquis player. I wouldn’t be surprised, however, if he signed Jamie Moyer or Randy Johnson to a double-digit, 1-year contract to stabilize a rotation that, as yo mentioned, is pretty messy.
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Dec 11, 2008 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes those moves were good and swift
i refered to them as minor moves. the rotation is still abig question mark to me. and another season of “we’ll be fine when” doesnt please me. Even the moves you state would make me happy cause it’s insurance
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Dec 11, 2008 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would hope MO would only spend money on non-Marquis players
not that I have anything against the guy, but that train has sailed.
by mattybobo on Dec 11, 2008 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic...
but I meant marquee, although it would be kind of funny to see the bedlam that would ensue if Mo went out and got Maquis.
"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."
by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Dec 12, 2008 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dead Again
If we’ve learned anything from James Bond it is that you only live twice.
So, now that the Peavy to the Cubs deal is dead again, I assume that’s it.
I for one is very, very, very happy about that.
by Scarecrow7775 on Dec 11, 2008 8:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm still fully expecting Peavy in Cubby Blue.
that way I will have a load off my heart if he’s not.
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Dec 11, 2008 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Saito
Throwing his name out there for discussion. Fun to watch, I like him. Thoughts?
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Dec 11, 2008 11:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
injured?
he was at the end of the season. he’s also really old.
by kindred on Dec 11, 2008 11:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah and kennedy who watches the dodgers close
thinks hes at the end of the trail
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Dec 12, 2008 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
am i the only one who thinks Hendry
should have dealt for peavy? Cost may have been high but I think he makes them that much tougher…especially if when Harden breaks..
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Dec 12, 2008 2:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
particularly since the Cubs are close enough to be in the “win now” mode. From their stand point, why get conservative now?
Granted, Harden will probably get hurt and I don’t think Dempster will keep it up, although I expect Lilly to be a bit better than last year…
…point is- Peavy can deal.
by Scarecrow7775 on Dec 12, 2008 4:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs are definitely in a win now situation...
They have some huge contracts (Lee, Soriano, Ramirez, Fukudome) which will limit their flexibility down the road. If they don’t win in the next 1-3 years, I think they will have to start rebuilding.
by Jumsy on Dec 15, 2008 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yankiel rumors
Hello, everyone…
With the talk of the Yankees interest in Our Rick and their signing of Sabathia and targeting every other free-agent SP out there, what are the chances of us landing Phil Hughes? Assuming the Yankees sign Burnett and Lowe, they’d have a rotation of:
Sabathia
Burnett
Lowe
Wang
Chamberlain
It obviously would have to be Ankiel + prospect(s) to get Hughes. I’m terrible at valuing prospects, so I’ll put it up to the great wisdom of the group:
Who plus Ankiel would it take to land Phil Hughes (who, incidentally, drafted after our own Chris Lambert)?
Kindly visit my Webbed log.
by Anonymous Communist on Dec 12, 2008 10:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just beat me to it...
If we sign Fuentes, or even if we don’t, we should deal Ankiel for the Yankees’ Hughes. The Yankees want another OF, and Cameron may not work out. They don’t need Hughes in their rotation, but they could use Rick. The Yanks wouldn’t have any problem resigning him after this season so he’d be worth more to them than most other clubs. We may have to throw in a mid-level prospect or two but this would give our rotation a much brighter future.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Correction of sorts
It would be much easier to land Ian Kennedy, but he’s not going to be as good. It really depends on how willing the Yankees are to throw away their young pitching. Hughes for Ankiel would require some additional value thrown in but as for Kennedy who knows. The question is, do we really want another Kennedy on our team?
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm fine with adding another Kennedy...
So long as the current one is done after this year. I knew an Ian Kennedy in high school so any time I here this name I think of him. I don’t think it’s the same guy though; he played soccer.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 12, 2008 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel this is the trade we need to make above all others
If we traded Ankiel for Kennedy it would solve our starting pitching problem for a few more years with a cheap good pitcher. Who the Cardinals had previous interest in since we drafted him out of HS but he went to college instead.
2nd of all we get to block the Brewers from dumping $10 million dollars. This would be HUGE for us especially in trying to sign Fuentes. Brewers probably can’t sign Fuentes without dumping Cameron. So by blocking that trade we could potentially save millions from not having to compete with the Brewers for Fuentes. Even if we don’t sign Fuentes we are blocking the Brewers from making further moves.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 12, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Amen
Kennedy should be priority #1. Hughes would be good but I doubt that’ll hapen.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Happen*
Sorry, I swear it was a typo.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Either player would make sense
Both Hughes and Kennedy are young guys with lots of potential. They are also cost controlled and very affordable for the next few years. I think very highly of Rick, but after next year, he will begin drawing assets away from other “need” areas.
Kennedy would be a good deal straight-up for both clubs. Yanks need good outfield help. Cardinals need good pitching help. Both teams win. Hughes would probably be better, but might require a sweetener. Possibly Anderson (who needs room to spread his wings)?
by JWO on Dec 17, 2008 1:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we could get Hughes if we really wanted
Between maybe Ankiel+Anderson+Reifer might get it done. Those 3 have good upside value but so does Hughes.
The Kennedy deal is driving me crazy though because this is the deal I want so bad. It just makes so much sense to trade Ankiel to the Yankee’s if we really are going after Fuentes. Cock Blocking the Brewers $10M to the Yankee’s with Cameron would be great. They could not pursue Fuentes if that happened. I see them ass our biggest rival in signing Fuentes. We could save a couple M probably just by trading Ankiel. Plus, Kennedy has to be available. Their are stocked now and still reloading. He is in AAA abyss with no outs being too far on the Totem pole. I guess though he is a not bad insurance but with the money they are spending I wouldn’t hope to have to use their insurance so soon.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2008 2:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I could see that trade working for NY and SL
but as exciting as it is to cock block the Brewers, I don’t think they are in it for Fuentes. I don’t think Kennedy or Hughes are blocked so to speak. The Yankees are still shopping for a 5th SP and every team needs a 6th or 7th over the course of a season.
by ol Pete on Dec 17, 2008 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rick to Yankees?
I like the idea of trading Rick for a starting pitcher or a 2B. But I wonder whether the Yankees would trade for Rick after acquiring Cameron. Does Rick hit enough to be a corner outfielder in the Bronx?
by jjray on Dec 12, 2008 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The article I linked
says that the Yankees may not acquire Cameron after all. Last years’ 25 HRs and .535 SLG should easily be good enough especially since he got injured.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Especially Yankee Stadium was the 2nd most friendly stadium to lefties
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 12, 2008 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True
New stadium though
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Same Dimensions though
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 12, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
Didn’t know that. Even better reason to trade Rick to the Bronx.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What does everyone think of a Matt Capps and Freddy Sanchez trade?
I know the Cards say they are sticking with Kennedy, but what do you think it would take to get this done?
by EFan on Dec 12, 2008 11:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I just read on MLB trade rumors
that Pirate Revolution feels they need to move Sanchez. Capps would be the difficult one it appears. How about:
Cardinals give:
Anderson
Boggs
Freese
Todd
Cardinals get:
Capps
Sanchez
Grabow
To much? Not enough? what do you all think?
by EFan on Dec 12, 2008 1:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Tough call
You’ve got Anderson who after next year (at age 22) could be the centerpiece of his own trade to become a ML starter, Boggs and Todd who are both under 25 and could become 4-5 type starters, and Freese (age 25) who could arguably start 2009 at 3B in the majors (Yeah I know that wasn’t a sentence but it was getting awfully long). In return, the Cards would get a good, young (25) closer in Capps, a declining second baseman (age 31), and an average lefty reliever (age 30). I vote no. Capps sounds great but I don’t think we need Sanchez. I don’t know what the PIrtates need, or how long we would control Capps, but what about Anderson or Craig+Todd for Capps straight up?
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I figured
We could get Capps and Grabow. We solve our LOOGY problem and get a closer. No need to sign Fuentes anymore.
by EFan on Dec 12, 2008 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
With Capps though
We would have a ’pen of:
Capps
Perez
Motte
Franklin
McClellan
Kinney
Thompson
Miller
Johnson?
I see no need for another lefty, that’s one too many pitchers as it is. KMac was good at getting lefties out and Johnson may be healthy.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
Sanchez would spend 2/3 of the season on the DL.
"A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann
by TurdFerguson on Dec 12, 2008 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am...
as against trading Boggs as I am against trading Rasmus right now. Seriously. Which other minor league starter (that is healthy) can immediately jump into the major league rotation at a moment’s notice?
by stlfan on Dec 12, 2008 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very true
He did poorly in St Louis last year but in Memphis he was pretty good. With regular innings he should be a solid 5, if not even an average-ish 4 at some point.
That said, if somebody wants him, I’d trade him. We have Puppy Kicker and Joe-L for our back of rotation guys this year.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boggs was voted
pitcher of the year by the PCL managers. I think his upside may be a little higher than puppy kicker and pineta. Then again he may be the pitching version of John Gall.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometime it rains.
by garden nome on Dec 12, 2008 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
I’m not talking about upside. I mean what he would be used for this year and how he’d likely produce for us.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 12, 2008 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right...but...
right now Pineiro is already penciled in to the back end of the rotation. That leaves Thompson as the #5 when someone goes down and no more afterwards.
by stlfan on Dec 13, 2008 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
That’s why we need to acquire another starter. Someone better than who will do better than Pineiro/Thompson/Boggs will this year. Someone like, I don’t know, Sheets, Kennedy, or Sonnanstine.
The Godfather himself has decided to grace us with his presence. This is his damn house. He sleeps 20 feet away.
by thegodfather on Dec 13, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why Sanchez?
How is Sanchez an upgrade over Kennedy? He’s another decent glove with a decent BA and little pop…no reason to give up anything to add nothing. Plus, if Kennedy keeps pace with last year, he’s probably better defensively anyways.
I like Capps, but giving up our 2nd best prospect in Anderson, our 2 best SP prospects and a very good 3B prospect for a couple relievers who only marginally improve the club? Probably not a good idea.
by theWizard on Dec 13, 2008 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Daniel Cabrera on the block
I could see Houston as a destination if Woolf refuses to resign. Thoughts?
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Dec 12, 2008 6:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Chris Capuano non-tendered
Glad we didn’t make that trade, huh?
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Dec 12, 2008 6:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He will also miss half the season
recovering from surgery.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometime it rains.
by garden nome on Dec 12, 2008 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
multiple reports of Burnett going for $82m for five years to the yankees.
for those of you keeping track at home, that’s $243m spent in the last two days.
The steinbrenners could have just rented the florida marlins for six years and had about the same chance of winning a world series.
So, the good news is this brings down the ceiling on anybody whose name isn’t sabathia or burnett to no more than $16M/yr. It will be interesting to see where this lowers Lowe’s numbers to — I’m going for 4y/$62m.
by tom s. on Dec 12, 2008 7:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would agree with one perhaps one exception....
depends if someone else other than the Yankees offer this much to him and how much more the Yankees answer with……. Sure am glad the NL Central does not have a team like this in it!
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby
by thegashousegang on Dec 12, 2008 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We do
the Cubs
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometime it rains.
by garden nome on Dec 12, 2008 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Evil Empire is Back
First Sabbathia and now AJ. Unfreakingbelieavable and for over 240 million combined.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometime it rains.
by garden nome on Dec 12, 2008 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ya but theyll have to pay a tax??
and we all know that helps clubs like the twins and royals..cough…i heard on MLB radio that the twins owner has money compairable to George but all his money goes to the Vikes
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Dec 12, 2008 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No contracts
We didnt offer a contract to Miles,Johnson, or Flores so they are all free agents now
by eburn40oz on Dec 13, 2008 1:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fuentes is eyeing the Angels.
On MLB.com Fuentes is saying Angels top choice
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081213&content_id=3716403&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp
Aaron Miles is worth it.
by dangpenguins on Dec 13, 2008 3:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
good.
then we can someone like Capps. Young and cheaper.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 13, 2008 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Capps won't be cheap
at least in terms of players. The Pirates will want a boatload.
by DCGreg on Dec 14, 2008 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We can give them that!
How about Piniero, Kennedy, Ryan, Manning, and Stavinoha?
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Dec 14, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we don't re-sign Aaron Miles
I’ll drive over my own head.
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Dec 13, 2008 4:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
is that a good or bad thing?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 13, 2008 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you saying it's likely
Or that you’ll want to kill yourself?
by mojowo11 on Dec 13, 2008 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Mo, my life is in your hands.
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Dec 13, 2008 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Miles wants more than 2 mil
I apologize, Zoop, but good luck in the next life.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on Dec 13, 2008 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hopefully
God blesses me by making me a descendent of Aaron Miles.
In all seriousness, though, if he has to go, I hope the dude cashes in somewhere. He’s taken a lot of flak around these parts, but he’s outperformed his role in most cases. Not saying he’s deserving of a major payday, but I’d be happy for him to see it if it happens.
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Dec 14, 2008 4:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what about takashi saito?
he’s 39 and declined some last year, but he’d be a lot cheaper than fuentes and he’s still well above average. and he’s that veteran presence tony wants. 2 yrs/12-15m gets it done?
2007:
ERA+: 327(!)
WHIP: .715
SO/9: 10.8
08 (spent 2 months on the dl):
ERA+:171
WHIP: 1.19
SO/9: 11.4
by rannpb on Dec 13, 2008 5:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
according to kevin Kennedy
who follows the dodgers saito is on the decline. I listen to him and dibs on XM radio. he is also 39 but hey that hasnt stopped them before…I’d make a run at Lowe first if sheets is to $$
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Dec 13, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What I heard
Source: someone on this site, so a grain of salt is in order
From what I hear, Saito needed Tommy John and decided instead to get some sort of stem cell treatment instead, which is scaring the Dodgers away (and other teams, too).
by mojowo11 on Dec 13, 2008 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
this was my understanding also
they talked about this during the post-season as well.
Koji Uehara is very interesting, though, and could probably be had for well under the OP’s proposed price. Texas is apparently talking about a 3Y, 10M deal. link
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 13, 2008 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it was
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 13, 2008 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda feel the need to rec you
for quoting me.
I was really high on Saito before hearing that, now I don’t think I’d sign him at all.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Dec 13, 2008 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the dodgers did
offer 2.5 million reportedly, he might have some value left
I'm Glad I'm not an Astros Fan
by Dave Barry on Dec 13, 2008 8:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no thanks. maybe if he remains unsigned in march,
we’ll see what his salary demands are. but if he’s going to reject 2.5m in a recovery period, i don’t want to try to outbid that. $2.5m would be as much as i would want to spend on a reclamation project reliever.
Penny i’d put more on, but he’s a starter. i can’t see paying an already injured 39yo reliever, no matter how high the upside, $6m a year.
by tom s. on Dec 13, 2008 8:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think most of us want to sign another starter
so, I looked up 5 starters that aren’t in the top 5 or so, because we probably won’t fork out the cash to get them… but 5 starters that are better than Braden Looper (probably) for 2009:
randy wolf – 4.3 ERA 190.1 IP 7.66 K/9 .99 HR/9 .312 BABIP 4.17 FIP 1.00 GB/FB -.16 WPA
ben sheets – 3.09 ERA 198.1 IP 7.17 K/9 .77 HR/9 .290 BABIP 3.38 FIP .99 GB/FB 2.32 WPA
oliver perez – 4.22 ERA 194 IP 8.35 K/9 1.11 HR/9 .280 BABIP 4.68 FIP .7 GB/FB .47 WPA
andy pettitte – 4.54 ERA 204 IP 6.97 K/9 .84 HR/9 .339 BABIP 3.71 FIP 1.8 GB/FB -.93 WPA
randy johnson – 3.91 ERA 184 IP 8.46 K/9 1.17 HR/9 .316 BABIP 3.76 FIP .96 GB/FB .5 WPA
Ben Sheets is clearly the most effective in ERA and FIP, as well as WPA, so he’s clearly the best option from these guys (but will be more expensive of course).
Randy Johnson is still the best at striking out batters, which might confuse Duncan… but he won’t be able to put in as many innings as the rest (unless Sheets gets hurt, of course, but he did log nearly 200 innings last season).
Andy Pettitte was the most durable of this crew, and had a respectable FIP… but his BABIP is rather scary. Dunc might like him a lot though, since he’ll induce more groundballs.
Randy Wolf looks to be really average (not very scientific of me though). Oliver Perez, now that I think about it, looks kinda scary… and I heard somewhere that he has control issues… so….
please sign Ben Sheets!
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 1:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hah
Good luck. Sheets looks to be a Ranger, what with his Texas home and whatnot. I’d love to have him, fo’ sho’, but I’d settle for Pettitte. I’m predicting a Randy Wolf, “Why-are-my-eyes-and-ears-bleeding-profusely?” signing, though. I don’t see us getting anybody that we’d like for our rotation this year. For the record, I’d MUCH rather have Daniel Cabrera than a Wolf type “never-was”.
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Dec 14, 2008 4:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All the Cards really want for Xmas
is Ben Sheets.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song:
by gocards62 on Dec 14, 2008 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and a World Series Championship,,,
and getting Ben Sheets could bring the Redbirds that much closer to doing this.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby
by thegashousegang on Dec 14, 2008 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At least it gets us closer to the Cubs' SP
Waino, Sheets, the Colonel, and Lohse can compete w/Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly, & Harden.
And we get MUCH better than everybody else in the Division.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song:
by gocards62 on Dec 14, 2008 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what? that hampton signing is totally going to work out for houston.
by tom s. on Dec 14, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure that's actually true
If we have Carp healthy, then maybe. But, assuming Dempster’s success carries over into 2009, the Cubs rotation is pretty darn sick. Plus, their #5 is Marshall right now, who is light years better than Pinata. With Carp, though…
Carp/Sheets/Waino/Colonel/Lohse
Harden/Zambo/Dempster/Lilly/Marshall
Now that’s a rotation matchup I can get behind.
by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we can't get Sheets, Johnson or Penny...
then my top option is … Braden Looper. Why the hell didn’t we offer him arbitration? I really hope Mo can scoop someone up towards the end of the offseason. Can’t think of why he wouldn’t have offered it otherwise.
by BustaCard on Dec 14, 2008 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Better off with young pitching
I like the options (my favorite being Johnson), but I still believe the Cardinals would be better positioned long-term to look at paying for a short-term closer, while trading for young starting pitching. We are blessed with great outfield talent right now, not to mention that some players like Wallace could shift to the OF. Trade a proven talent and get a high profile young pitcher back.
Again, my top targets would be Sonnanstine (TB) and Hughes (NY).
by JWO on Dec 17, 2008 1:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It looks like the Yanks are not done yet.....
Apparently they want either Tex or Manny… and more…..
go to:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12142008/sports/yankees/yanks_to_go_after_manny__teixeira_144124.htm
Their payroll is going to hit what? $250 million this year if they get what they want?
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby
by thegashousegang on Dec 14, 2008 11:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
evil Yankees
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Doubtful
They shed $80 million in payroll this offseason, and they’ve only added about half of that back with Sabathia and Burnett. Their payroll will probably decrease this year—unless they really go bonkers and add Manny, Tex, and Lowe or something nuts like that.
by mojowo11 on Dec 14, 2008 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought this was a deep FA pool
Till the yanks started signing EVERYONE.
by TheBirds on Dec 14, 2008 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boston isn't going to get Tex it seems...
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/12/henry_we_are_no.html
It's not what you do, It's who you do...
by pattimagee on Dec 19, 2008 1:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just woke up to seeing some dude throw shoes and President Bush
lol
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 2:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
*at
sometimes, I wish I could just erase these things, but it was pretty funny
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 14, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The concept of throwing shoes, (throwing shoes!) at someone seems funny,
but it’s really not. I just don’t think it’s a nice thing to do.
Those kinds of things do seem to stick in your mind though.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Dec 14, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
nice?
heh. this ends hear
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2008 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't quoted Austin Powers in ages, but . . .
“honestly, who throws a shoe!?”
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 14, 2008 8:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does anybody know why the Royals are paying Farnsworth 4.5 mil a year
That might be the biggest waste of money a bad team could do.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 14, 2008 11:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Late one night, dayton moore had $4.5 million in his pocket and started jonesing for some cocaine.
He said “If I don’t go sign a player with this money in the next 45 minutes, I’m going to spend it all on blow.” So, he went through his rolodex trying to find a free agent ballplayer. He got all the way to the F’s before he found somebody who was awake at 3:00 am who would answer his call.
Anybody got a better explanation?
by tom s. on Dec 15, 2008 3:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he does seem rather overpaid
whenever people bring up Motte having only one pitch, I think of lots of guys who only have one pitch. well, Farnsworth at least, and I think Motte will be better than Farns
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 15, 2008 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Royals are concentrating on OBP
Farnsworth puts guys on base. It’s a no-brainer.
by mattybobo on Dec 16, 2008 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
let me get this straight
the Royals are concentrating on having high OBP given out by their pitchers, but have no interest in high OBP from their batters? I kinda like the Royals, I hope Moore hasn’t completely lost it
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Dec 16, 2008 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Royals
Well, Dayton Moore has said he wants better OBP’s, but I think he heard he could get 32 home runs and that one center fielder who’s named after cereal, so he got excited and went and got them. Or maybe it’s the coke thing.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 16, 2008 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ron Mayhay is getting $4 mil this year too
$8.5mil for 2 middle releivers on a rebuilding ballclub is a great idea.
They give guillen $36 mil over 3 and havn’t signed greinke or gordon long term, the red sox gave pedroia $40.5 over 6 years. There is a reason the Royals will never win, and it’s not because of there small payroll (which really isn’t that small anymore).
by ForesterShane on Dec 15, 2008 3:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The temptation of Value
When I see big name free agents having a tough time getting the contracts they want I have a hard time not wanting the Cards to jump in. Furcal doesn’t want to go to Oakland but they have the best offer on the table so far at 4 years 40 million. It seems like the Cards could match and win, or even offer more for less years and win (yes, I know he is an injury risk). 10 million for a top five SS seems like a steal. Yes that takes up the rest of our budget so any other upgrades would have to come through trade, but doesn’t the value force one to at least consider that deal?
Lowe doesn’t seem to be getting near what he wants either. Petite’s agents have said there is a 3 year 36 million offer on the table for him. I have a hard time understanding that when it looks like Lowe won’t cost much more than that. If the Cards seriously contemplated spending 10 million on Fuentes for three years, it seems like 13 per year offer to Lowe wouldn’t be unfathomable. Boras might laugh at that, but I haven’t heard of anything better than that for Lowe at the moment. And I’d rather have Lowe than Burnett anyway,
Obviously the market seems favorable relative to previous years and that doesn’t mean it will be favorable down the road. Furcal for 10 might seem steep by this time next year (though recessions usually turn around within 18 months, but I don’ think those estimates take into account the U.S. government printing money at will and throw it after bad). But, It doesn’t seem too out there to wonder if a team like the Pirates could orchestrate a serious franchise turnaround by signing a teams worth of free agents. *Future post idea: compile and all free agent team for 70 million and what real teams are worse than the one you made. *Bonus: compile an All Free Agent Second team and what real teams would be worse than that one.
by abothecardinal on Dec 15, 2008 5:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Manny
I forgot about Manny. If he is only going to get three years I would be tempted to go after him too.
by abothecardinal on Dec 15, 2008 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
The Yankees are basically doing this right now, except they’re spending like $400 million more than you’d allow me to spend on my hypothetical $70M team. I’m not going to compete with the Yankees money machine…
:-)
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Dec 15, 2008 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
did you hear that they're actually saving money
compared to last year? pretty crazy, huh?
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 15, 2008 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So far they are saving money
But Derek Lowe, Mark Teixeira, and Ben Sheets are still out there too. They could end up spending another $300M before it’s all said and done.
They are saving money next year compared to 2008, but with the escalation in A-Rod’s contract and the CC and Burnett deals they could end up spending much, much more than they did last year by 2010-2011.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Dec 16, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt that after it's all said and done, these contracts add up to less than 70 million
But I gave it a shot anyway.
Lineup
C – Javier Valentin
1B – Adam Dunn
2B – Mark Grudzielanek
3B – Joe Crede
SS – Angel Berroa
OF – Pat Burrell
OF – Juan Rivera
OF – Cliff Floyd
Bench – Farm system/replacement level
Bench – Farm system/replacement level
Bench – Farm system/replacement level
Bench – Farm system/replacement level
Rotation
SP – Ben Sheets
SP – Randy Johnson
SP – Tim Redding
SP – Chuck James
SP – Farm system/replacement level
RHR – Farm system/replacement level
RHR – Farm system/replacement level
RHR – Luis Ayala
RHR – Jesus Colome
LHR – Brian Shouse
LHR – Joe Beimel
CL – Juan Cruz
by lunchboxbomb on Dec 16, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good work there!
I’d say you did pretty well for only spending 70MM.
As long as you were able to fill out those “replacement” spots with decent players you definitely stayed within budget.
www.salukihoops.com
by salukihoops on Dec 16, 2008 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a pretty good roster there
A couple of notes:
- I’d really like to see what James’ and Redding’s ERA’s and WHIP’s look like after pitching for a team with an outfield of Burrell, Rivera, and Floyd. You actually might improve that outfield by putting Dunn in the outfield and Burrell at 1B. Either way, that outfield is going to be worse than the 2008 Yankee outfield defensively, and that’s saying a lot.
- That bullpen could be awesome or it could be downright terrible and damn doesn’t that sound familiar…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Dec 16, 2008 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I pretty much ignored defense both because I really didn’t see anyone that stood out defensively on name alone, and I was much too lazy to go through their defensive metrics in depth. I think Crede is the only one on the entire team that I saw in any positional top 10 for +/-.
It was a lot harder than I thought it was going to be, given the relatively underwhelming free agent class and payroll limit. Oh well, was fun.
by lunchboxbomb on Dec 16, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Furcal to the Braves...
according to Rosenthal.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8947764/Source:-Furcal-to-sign-with-Braves
Does that reopen a Ankiel for Johnson, more or less, option for the Cards? I’m still all for that one.
by BustaCard on Dec 16, 2008 9:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why Furcal?
The Braves already have Escobar—younger, cost-controlled. Do they really want Jake Peavy that badly that they’ll sign Furcal for 4/40M??
If so we should offer an OF/RHP for Escobar.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2009 StL Cardinal theme song:
by gocards62 on Dec 16, 2008 10:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've gotta think they would take Ankiel for Johson now
They have a glaring need for 1 OF and for 1 Starting Pitcher.
If the address those two items they will have a good team.
Rick Ankiel would solve one problem. I would guess that they would try and go the free agent route for the pitcher.
www.salukihoops.com
by salukihoops on Dec 16, 2008 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently they dont want to keep all 3 players and move KJ to left field
MLB.com’s Mark Bowman says the Braves have no intention of trading Johnson or Escobar – they are moving Johnson back to left field. Bowman believes Furcal will play second base.
This seems like a bad move to me, KJ’s bat doesn’t play as well in LF
Of course, that could just be a smokescreen so they dont seem desperate in trade talks.
www.salukihoops.com
by salukihoops on Dec 16, 2008 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That should read "they want to keep all 3"
nt
www.salukihoops.com
by salukihoops on Dec 16, 2008 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to go with what you said here:
Of course, that could just be a smokescreen so they dont seem desperate in trade talks.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 16, 2008 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They could also move Escobar to third and put Chipper back in the outfield
Not sure whey they’d do that though…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Dec 16, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like it would be easier to um...
sign an OFer….
I respect the Braves, but I’m confused here.
by TheBirds on Dec 16, 2008 7:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's 3 yr / $30 mil
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 16, 2008 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt escobar
gets traded for anyone but Peavy. And I do think this move was made with the attention of getting back in on Peavy. They made a really strong push for Burnett, so they are still obviously in the market for a top of the rotation starter. Peavy for Escobar makes perfect sense for both teams…..regardless of what the GM’s say.
I hate winter!!!!
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 16, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure couldn't hurt
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 16, 2008 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Izturis signs with O's
Izturis gets $2.4 million next year and $2.6 million in 2010. He can earn up to $600,000 each year in performance bonuses: $50,000 each for 400 and 450 plate appearances and 100 and 110 games started, and $100,000 each for 500 plate appearances , and 120, 130 and 140 games started.
I don’t think he is what the Cardinals need long term, but i can appreciate the player he is and think he will be good for the O’s providing a steady defensive shortstop for a team full of young pitchers that is in a rebuilding phase. Wish him the best.
by ForesterShane on Dec 16, 2008 12:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Probably a better signing than Punto
Unless Punto can be an average offensive player again next year, though I have my doubts.
The Everett signing could turn out to be the best deal of the three good-field no-hit shortstops, though.
by mojowo11 on Dec 16, 2008 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you guys think about a different tack toward a fifth starter?
Instead of looking at a big name for a one-year deal, choose a trio of rehab projects on the theory that at least one of them will work out. Say, Penny, Pavano, and Daniel Cabrera. Sign each to low base amounts on a one year, so we’re not out any substantial money in the event of any individual collapsing. A team option for a second year. Incentives for performance.
I can see, given the glut of pitching on the market, all of these guys floating out on the market until February or March, at which point they all might just be looking for a chance to play somewhere and reestablish themselves. If more than one works out, then we have mid-season trade bait. Each has a pretty high upside. The biggest danger would be all three flopping, but by spreading the risk around I imagine at least one will do well.
by tom s. on Dec 16, 2008 1:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not a bad idea but it might be flawed
Once you sign the first guy the other guys who are willing to take a one year deal will want to sign with a team that has a vacancy.
If a player is willing to take a one year deal, he wants to have a sure fire crack at a rotation spot.
www.salukihoops.com
by salukihoops on Dec 16, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe a competition is better
Maybe the three of those pitchers will work even harder to get into the spot. I still believe that is why we did good last year. A few of the starters had good seasons because they never knew if they were gonna go out there the next day (Schumacher, Ludwick, etc.). Maybe it would be the same way with our starting pitching.
Then again it is very likely all of them could fail miserably (Clement, Mulder) and we wouldn’t have crap.
by wizardofozzie on Dec 16, 2008 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
don't we do that every year?
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 16, 2008 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not on purpose.
Mulder and Carp we did that for, b/c we had to. We signed them as (ostensibly) healthy pitchers.
Clement, yes. Clement was a good example of a high-upside, low-risk signing. I think the Clement signing was a good one. The minimal cost hardly handcuffed the roster flexibility when it failed. Had it worked out, it would have had a large upside. I can’t think of how last year’s roster would have been substantially different with that $1.5m back.
by tom s. on Dec 16, 2008 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we originally signed Carpeneter as a reclaimation project
we paid him to rehab for a year, in fact.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Dec 16, 2008 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, agreed
It didn’t really hurt us in the long-run, but I feel like they’ve tried this a few times. My only fear with that strategy is that they don’t bring in someone proven because “one of the reclamation projects will work out.”
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 17, 2008 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fair point. I'm not even sure I want to pursue this theory in practice.
I am concerned that there’s a serious drop-off among FA after sheets and johnson in terms of quality. if we can’t land either, we’re looking at a few pitchers marginally better than braden looper (say, pettitte) and a lot that are comparable or worse. Many in both groups are likely to look for 3 years.
I would love to be able to trade for someone young and talented (Ian Kennedy, JA Happ, Sonnanstine, Masterson, J. Sanchez), but I’m not sure how realistic those trades are.
I think though that if we miss out on the top FA’s and straggle through to February still looking for starters, this could be an alternate tactic.
by tom s. on Dec 17, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
add Carpenter to that group
1 of the 4 would have to have a decent season……see last year (lohse, clement, mulder, carpenter)
Is it weird that I would rather watch a team with the Marlins salary than the Yankees?
by ForesterShane on Dec 16, 2008 1:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
wait til spring
if we don’t sign lowe or perez or an expensive pitcher like fuentes, then by march there will be lohse types out there. right now, i would offer looper a decent contract which he would be tempted to accept due to the economy and the availability of starters. i would make a real effort to sign lowe, then find a closer and relief help through trades of surplus outfielders and maybe third base.
victim of the sixties
by victim of the sixties on Dec 16, 2008 5:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like Ankiel for Sonnanstine
Look guys, if this deal is a possibility at all we have to jump at it. Even though I love Ankiel, Ankiel is arb. eligible, Sonnanstine is controlled. Ankiel plays a position that we have a lot of depth in and Sonnanstine is a young, talented potential ace. This is a young guy who could put up Wainwright-like numbers next season especially with the move from the AL East to the NL Central. If this deal is an option DO IT!!!
by aaron_notmiles on Dec 16, 2008 7:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i doubt anybody argues with you, but I think the Rays have filled their corner outfield slot.
I don’t see them wanting ank anymore.
by tom s. on Dec 16, 2008 8:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why does everyone want to trade Ankiel?
I know all of you are ready to give your first born for Rasmus, but the guy hasnt even hit .300 in the minors. Everyone bases way to much on potential, Im telling you right now that Daryl Jones is our best outfield prospect not Colby Rasmus
by eburn40oz on Dec 16, 2008 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if we aren't to base our opinions of prospects -- those who have not yet performed at the ML
level — what should we base them on?
and since when did batting .300 become the be all and end all? Is Aaron Miles really the second best hitter on our team?
The primary reasons why ankiel seems like a good trade target is because a) we have lots of talented outfielders, many of them left handed; b) he becomes a free agent next fall, which makes the club unlikely to resign him.
And the words colby rasmus did not come up in either of the previous posts. Relying exclusively on Rasmus might be silly but when our team has Schumaker, Ludwick, Barton, Duncan, Rasmus, Mather, Jon Jay, and Nick Stavinoha at or near the ML level, why would we not consider trading a valuable chip? If Rasmus doesn’t pan out, surely some of the above prospects will.
by tom s. on Dec 16, 2008 8:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Has yet to hit .300 in the minors? So? OBP, and then slugging, are WWWAAAYYY better measures than BA. Like, by a whole hell of a lot. I personally don’t care if Rasmus ever hits .300 in his life.
And you say the following:
bq. Everyone bases way to much on potential, Im telling you right now that Daryl Jones is our best outfield prospect not Colby Rasmus
Aren’t those two statements contrary? Jones only JUST NOW had any kind of success at the professional level. He’s an enormously raw talent, so ALL HE IS IS POTENTIAL. Rasmus was probably capable of playing an above-replacement level CF last season, and certainly could this season…I’m not so sure about Jones at this point. Rasmus is more of a sure thing at this point than Jones, and by a LONG SHOT.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 16, 2008 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dammit...
…I tried to make a blockquote and F’ed up…that was supposed to read this:
Everyone bases way to much on potential, Im telling you right now that Daryl Jones is our best outfield prospect not Colby Rasmus
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 16, 2008 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure
that Sonnanstine has quite that much potential. Yes, he is young, cost controlled, and talented, but to say he is a potential ace might be overstepping just a bit.
by stl522 on Dec 17, 2008 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can solve our closer problem
This is the most far fetched idea ever but oh well…
Put Ankiel in as our closer let him play the field for 8innings then bring in a defensive replacement and let Ankiel close. If he’s thinking about playing the field maybe he wont think about pitching and have his nervous break down, and it also saves us a bench spot cause you wont need a pinch hitter for him
by eburn40oz on Dec 16, 2008 8:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 16, 2008 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cardinals sign 2 minor leaguers
Joe Thurston is a 2nd baseman from the Red Sox minior league system. He is a 28 year old who put up a .316 .367 .456 at Pawtucket. At the Major league level he has a lifetime OPS+ of 48 but only 66 ABs.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/thursjo01.shtml
Justin Knoedler; also 28; is a catcher from Sacromento. Last here he had a line of .175 .238 .378. with 18 whole ABs at the major league level.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/knoedju01.shtml
Thruston is expect to compete currently for the utility IF position and Knoedler is just expected to be Depth at Memphis.
Per Leach:
by Evilfrog on Dec 16, 2008 8:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would like to see the Cards...
forget about signing Fuentes and sign Sheets two a 2 year deal and Hoffman to a 1 year deal. This would probably cost close to the 33 million that Fuentes is looking for. Sure, it would only cover 1 year less of players, but I believe that Sheets and Hoffman would provide a greater opportunity to win than just the 1 player.
The 1 year deal for Hoffman allows Motte and Perez to progress and eventually take over as the closer (I hate the idea of 3 yrs for Fuentes because I feel that he will be an 11 million dollar lefty specialist by year 3 of the contract).
Signing Sheets two just a 2 year deal would allow for some of the pitching prospects to develop in the minors and hopefully step in after 2 seasons. The payroll that would be available after Sheets’ 2nd season could then be used to extend the contract of Mr. Pujols.
by Jumsy on Dec 17, 2008 1:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
According to mlbtraderumors.com
They are only offering Fuentes 2 years and 16-18 million. They might be low-balling him a little because they isn’t a good market for him, but I’m sure that they will not go into the 3 year 30 million dollar range.
I would love the Fuentes signing if it we on a 2 year deal. He would make our bullpen one of the best in the league, assuming that Kinney, Motte and Perez do what they should do. If we do sign Fuentes than we should trade Ank for a young starting pitcher. I would like to see Ank for Sonnastein, but we would probably have to include more in that trade.
The other option would be to sign a starting pitcher in FA, Randy Johnson, Ben Sheets, Oliver Perez to a short term deal and then trade an outfielder for a lefty closer like Mike Gonzalez or BJ Ryan.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 17, 2008 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its not low-balling...
If that is the best offer he has on the table then it isn’t really low-balling him.
by abothecardinal on Dec 17, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not lowballing
because he’s a reliever that pitches 60-70 innings a year. Those players just aren’t worth that much.
by azruavatar on Dec 17, 2008 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yet
If we would have had him last year, we probably make the playoffs.
It isn’t like Fuentes is the first “established” closer to ask for that kind of money. And if you factor in inflation, it’s even more reasonable. Sure it’d be nice to have a “cheap” closer. And we might have that in Perez. But I, and I think STL management, aren’t sold on that just yet.
Nobody complained about Izzy’s salary until he got hurt and stop performing. Not a word about it in ’07 though.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Dec 17, 2008 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it is reasonable
He can ask for any kind of money he wants to, and compared to recent years it is a reasonable desire. But the reality is the best he can hope for is the best offer he gets. And there is no sense of making the best offer even better just because he wants it to be. And if any player feels disrespected (as I’ve read in several places) because their best offer is lower than what they expected, they ought to think about taking the second best offer then.
by abothecardinal on Dec 17, 2008 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“If we would have had him last year, we probably make the playoffs.”
This is a highly contentious point that’s be argued ad nauseum here. I disagree with it vehemently for a variety of reasons. 1) The Cardinals left Motte and Perez to waste in AAA while giving looks to Jimenez and others. 2) If the Cardinals had Hanley Ramirez instead of Izturis last year, they probably would have made the playoffs. It’s not a corollary that we should be trying to acquire Ramirez. 3) Blown saves are, in part, a component of run distribution. One reason why relievers are “volatile” commodities is that they can’t control run distribution and are often in positions where 1 or 2 runs makes or breaks the game. 4) We’re not replaying 2008. We’re playing 2009. An established closer is not necessary for the 2009 team to win especially in an environment where the Brewers and Astros appear to be getting worse.
I don’t care if he isn’t the first one to get that kind of money; past wrongs don’t justify future ones. The inflation argument is garbage. We’re talking about 3 years tops. We differ on our opinion of Perez so I’m not going to attempt to change that: you think he’s not ready, I think you’re wrong.
There was some noise about Izzy’s option. The difference was the length of the deal, available replacements and, while I didn’t share it, a nostalgia factor.
Regardless of all those differences, you still didn’t adress what my comment was about. The Cardinals aren’t lowballing Fuentes because they’re not offering him what he expects. They’re making an offer based on their valuation of him and sticking to it. I may disagree with that valuation, as may Fuentes, but that doesn’t make it lowballing him.
by azruavatar on Dec 17, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
man
if we had Hanley Ramirez… watch out!
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Dec 17, 2008 10:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
indeed.
I think it definitely IS a corollary that we should be trying to acquire him.
But yeah, regarding Izzy, there was a lot of agony when his option was exercised after the stellar 2007. I’m still annoyed that we didn’t trade him after that year.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 18, 2008 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“I think it definitely IS a corollary that we should be trying to acquire him.”
In relation to what he would cost? I don’t think that would make sense.
by azruavatar on Dec 18, 2008 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It depends
if the ultimate goal is to win the world series right now, then the team should be allocating resources to realize that goal. If the goal is to achieve a moderate to high level of sustainable success (and I think it is – based on their focus on player development), then I don’t think you would try to make an acquisition that pushes you over the top at an extreme cost to the future. I’m not sure the Cards win the WS, even with Hanley…of course there’s no way to know. Winning the WS takes a bit of luck. We would, without question be a better team with Hanley Ramirez at SS.
Plus, the cost, which would obviously be very high, is only speculative. It’s difficult to analyze the cost without having some framework for what the demands would be. Our ten best prospects + our stadium?
by Toddius on Dec 18, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The budget is a zero sum game though.
The Cardinals should obviously take every opportunity to field a better team but there’s a constraint on what they can do budget wise.
by azruavatar on Dec 18, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but that's why you always get the best player at one position
rather than above average players at two positions. superstars are almost always underpaid.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 19, 2008 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is the
budget a zero sum game? Obviously total expendable resources are zero sum…but the budget could be an arbitrary number based on expected profitability. If some expenditure would increase profitability by enough to offset the loss generated by a budgetary increase, then the pie enlargement would be possible – negating zero sum game theory.
If you can make the pie larger, then it isn’t a zero sum game.
by Toddius on Dec 19, 2008 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Except that we've seen
DeWitt isn’t willing to make the pie larger. Despite numerous years in the playoffs, payroll has been relatively steady. I don’t think DeWitt is doing anything other than be a prudent businessman but the pie seems pretty set.
by azruavatar on Dec 19, 2008 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
definitely seems that way
but that’s a reason not to pay for guys like pineiro and lohse and franklin, not the carpenter’s or sheets’ or pujols’ or ramirez’s.
You simply can’t replace Pujols’ performace for what he costs. The same applied for ARod and the same will apply for Ramirez, when he becomes an FA, and it really really applies now while he is cost controlled.
they can't play baseball, they don't wear sweaters, they're not good dancers, they don't play drums
by SleepyCA on Dec 19, 2008 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
If that’s the case, then that’s the case.
by Toddius on Dec 19, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rick Ankiel for Phil Hughes
Straight up. Yankees (obviously) have the money, and need the outfielder. Ankiel is a better deal than Cameron. Hughes needs to escape the pressure of New York.
I believe Mozeliak is working this (or a Sonnanstine deal) behind the scenes. Its hard to do, but its better to ignore all of the hot stove hype. One of these two deals will happen and it will come out of NOWHERE.
by JWO on Dec 17, 2008 1:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Aiming too high
Ankiel is not enough for Hughes and probably not Kennedy either.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Dec 17, 2008 2:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees have good starting pitching depth
They have the top 4 rotation spots locked up for a long time, assuming they extend Wang, so they would definitely trade one of Hughes, Kennedy or Aceves if they thought it could help there team. They are looking to get Mike Cameron, but the Brewers want a starter and aren’t willing to take on any of his contract for next year. If those talks break down, they would probably do a Kennedy for Ankiel trade.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 17, 2008 2:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel is WAY more than enough for Kennedy, but not quite enough for Hughes
nt
www.salukihoops.com
by salukihoops on Dec 17, 2008 9:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1 year of Ankiel for 5 years of Kennedy would be a huge steal for the Cardinals.
by azruavatar on Dec 17, 2008 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still have a hunch
that if we don’t trade Ankiel, he’s going to want to re-sign here.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Dec 19, 2008 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs