Rational Fielding: When Should He "Go for It"?
A recent discussion on another forum spurred me to make this argument, and I thought it was interesting enough that I'd post it here for reaction. The discussion revolves around whether a baseball player can decide to 'let a ball go' that they could have fielded because they believe another defender can get it *and* have an easier throw to first base. The argument revolved around whether defensive metrics which give Pujols credit for his range are flawed, because his range is actually a detriment in that he fields balls that the 2B could get, but makes for a much harder throw to the pitcher covering.
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| Look, it's just how infield is taught. A third baseman is taught to get everything they can. A shortstop is taught to get everything he can, and to take a shallow angle on slowly hit balls hit to his left. The 2nd baseman is taught to get everything he can, but takes a deeper angle than the shortstop both to avoid and collision and because it's a much easier play. |
And, of course, 1B are taught to get everything they can, and when they can't to retreat to 1B for a throw to 1B on a grounder fielded by another player. Not that you really need to be 'taught' this. Even if we tried to 'teach' player to differentiate between the batted balls they can get versus those they can get but should let someone else get (the slow dribbler excepted) it wouldn't matter...because they simply aren't going to be able to do it most of the time. There simply isn't enough time. If you think you can get to it you try for it. That's undoubtedly the decision rule 99% of players use on 99% of plays.
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| That same concept applies why Pujols snags a grounder when Kennedy is standing flat footed directly behind him, it's a more difficult play. That's why you don't see 2nd baseman snagging slow hoppers on the shortstop side of the bag very often. |
Yes, all players have time on a slow grounder to consider whether another player can get to it. We don't need to keep talking about slow grounders since players will almost always let the player whose zone that ball was hit to field it. AP included.
As far as making the determination as to whether or not to let the ball go, it is easier for the middle infielder because in most cases the other middle infielder is in their perephrial vision. For 1st baggers and 3rd baggers, this is only sometimes the case. Alot of the time they have no vision of the nearest fielder because that fielder is *behind* them. So they have to guesstimate based on pre-hit positioning.
From simple game theoretic terms, I don't think it is ever rational to assume the other fielder will get the ball when there is a sufficiently non-zero probability that the other fielder will not, in fact, field the ball. On a slow dribbler in the other player's zone, let's say there's a .01% chance of the fielder not being in position to make the play (he falls down, etc.). And let's say there is a .05% chance of making an error on the play if I (the 1B) make the play. In this instance, it's rational, from a utility-maximizing stand point, to go ahead and retreat to 1B and presume the 2nd baseman will field the ball without even checking to see if he can.
Now let's consider the question of whether or not to try for a ball at the outside of a 1B range (which overlaps with the outside of the 2B range). So we assume from the outset that there is no P = 1 situation--where we *know* that another fielder could make the play. Our chance of making an error in fielding the ball is still .05%. And the chance of the 2B making an error *if he gets to it* is .01%. So, if we knew before hand that both of us would make the play, clearly we could let the 2B make the play and hence reduce the chance of making the error. But we *don't* know that. Let's add an additional assumption: Let's assume that the probability of my fielding a ball is 99.9% when it is hit directly at me, and that probability monotonically decreases to zero as the trajectory of the ball moves off my centerpoint in either direction (as a 1B, of course, my range is censored by the foul line to my left). That point where my probability of fielding the ball goes to zero is the limit of my range. Given this, the decision on whether or not to try for a ball is a simple calculation:
If P(FB1B) >= [P(E2B) - P(E1B)], attempt to field the ball.
If P(FB) < [P(E2B) - P(E1B)], retreat to 1B.
In words, if the probability of fielding the ball is greater than or equal to the difference between the probability of the 1B making an error on the play and the probability of the 2B making an error, then the first baseman should field the ball. If the probability of fielding the ball is less than the probability of the 1B making an error on the play (minus the probability of the 2B making that error), then the first baseman should retreat to first. As should be apparent, the decision rule here is almost *always* going to be to try and field the ball. And if we assume bounded rationality (IOW if we assume that players are not probability calculators but rather their probability decisions are 'fuzzy')...then it may *never* be the case that it is rational to retreat to 1B on a ball hit within his range where he cannot be sure another fielder will get it.
Let's look at it from the manager's standpoint. What does he want his defenders to do when a ball is put in play? Naturally, he wants them to increase the chance that an out is recorded. So what should he teach his fielders to do? Naturally, they should do anything that increases the chance that an out is recorded. So let's consider the following case: A ball is hit sharply on the ground between the 2B and 1B. The following probabilites hold:
If neither player attempts to field the ball, the probability of a hit is 1.
If the 2B tries for the ball, he has a 20% chance of fielding the ball.
If the 1B tries for the ball, he has a 20% chance of fielding the ball.
If both players try for the ball, there is a joint probability of 30% that the ball will be fielded. IOW, 10% of the time when the both try for it, the 1B gets to it and the 2nd baseman wouldn't have. 10% of the time the 2B gets to it and the 1B wouldn't have. 10% of the time they both would have gotten to it (and thus the closest fielder makes the play but either would have recorded the out). 70% of the time, neither will get to the ball and it will be a hit.
What should a manager teach? Well, if he teaches the 1B to retreat to 1B when there is a non-zero chance the 2B will get it, then the probability of a batted ball recorded as an out in our above scenario declines by 10%. He loses out on the times the 1B would have made the play and the 2B wouldn't have. Now let's consider an error. Let's say that when the 2B fields this ball there's a 1% chance of a throwing error and when the 1B fields the ball there's a 5% chance of a throwing error (note, I think that greatly exceeds the actual probability of making that error. If a 1B makes 4 throws a game to the pitcher covering first, that would mean that he makes 648 throws in a season. If he makes an error 5% of the time on those throws, that would mean 33 throwing errors in a season on just throws to the pitcher covering first). Even then, it is rational to teach your first baseman to try to get everything you can get to. Because the probability of an out being recorded teaching that is 26%.
P(out) = U [P(1Bout), P(2Bout)] - U [P(1Ber), P(2Ber)
P(out) = 30% - [5% - 1%] = 26%
The chance of an out being recorded otherwise is 19%
P(out) = P(2Bout) - P(2Ber)
P(out) = 20% - 1% = 19%
D.GOOCH
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David Pinto has some data you might find useful,
maybe.
http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/030093.php
Most specifically, the idea that there are very few places on the field where ballhogging actually occurs. I would think that this supports your findings.
the enemy's gate is down.
by SleepyCA on
Nov 10, 2008 11:56 AM EST
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Thanks!
Very helpful info. D.GOOCH
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on
Nov 11, 2008 2:36 AM EST
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Don't you need to account for the "motown" factor in your equation?
Whereby, if your pitcher’s jersey says “Tigers” on it, he should only touch the ball when the catcher returns it to him? I believe the probability of an error by such a pitcher in fielding circumstances approaches infinity.
Unless it’s Kenny Rogers with his patented Miracle Grip dirt-type substance.
by tom s. on
Nov 11, 2008 3:10 AM EST
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Just thought I'd say
This is a very good post. Too good, in fact. I just read the whole thing, and all I can really take away from it is the idea of fielding practices based on reasonable assumptions of probability. If there is a decent understanding of what will usually occur, it would make more sense for fielders to field according to that rather than some established norm merely for the sake of validating convention. Am I on the right track? I tend to find in depth analysis like this confusing, possibly because I never actually played baseball and it’s very difficult for me to try to see things from the players’ perspective.
Unfortunately this post will continue to be ignored because it’s too in-depth, too creative. If this were a main post maybe it’d force more people to read it?
Awesome stuff, GOOCH!
by mattybobo on
Nov 12, 2008 10:41 AM EST
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Matty, looks like you’re on the right track to me.
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on
Dec 4, 2008 12:03 AM EST
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the probability is interesting to look at
but i feel that because we curently dont have robots playing baseball (who knows, maybe we will soon, its a slippery slope from robot umps to robot players, kidding) a brand new concept of infield defense would be incredibly hard to teach to major leaguers, perhaps not as hard to youth baseball players. The conclusion that was reached, and to be honest, i was confused about the conclusion, would undoubtedly be new and different. the reluctance of “baseball men” to accept something new and different as fact and gospel would be a problem and has been a problem since they baseball men have existed.
I wonder though, what impact would having your pitcher always run to first base after a batted ball would have on increasing the range of other four infielders. could the infield cover more holes and the pitcher still be as effective if he always fell towards first and went to the bag, regardless of the context of the hit?
At least he's better than Esteban Yan.
by jacksonian on
Nov 12, 2008 9:02 PM EST
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To me, the conclusion seemed to be to just do the commonsense thing
and run to every ball that you can get to, except for the slow dribblers, where you have to be concerned with the throw, have a lot of thinking time,a nd can scream “I’ve got it”
And that it’s absurd to complain about Albert getting to balls that Kennedy could concievably field.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
Nov 14, 2008 2:58 PM EST
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You are right about the…stickiness…of the opinions on how baseball should be tought by baseball men. Thinking ‘outside the box’ isn’t exactly encouraged. That said, baseball has now pretty much fully embraced empirical statistical analysis as an evaluative tool. I think the next ‘step,’ if you will, is to incorporate the innovations of game theoretic and spatial modeling to improve both baseball instruction and evaluation. But it took decades for OPS to be accepted. I can only imagine how long it would take “Nash” (he of the famous Nash equilibrium) to become a common baseball term. ;) Then again, I bet Mr. Nash never thought Russel Crowe would play him in a movie. ;) D.GOOCH
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on
Dec 4, 2008 12:07 AM EST
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this post makes my head hurt
but in that way that makes you know you’ve read something truly special
by VolsnCards5 on
Nov 12, 2008 10:37 PM EST
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ditto, i have no idea what's going on, so you know it's full of awesomeness
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on
Nov 12, 2008 11:49 PM EST
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Great post GOOCH
I was interested enough in this concept to look at what happens when the probability of the fielders was not equal, as it is in GOOCH’s example. I also changed some things, which I thought I could improve upon from the model GOOCH created.
Firstly, the probability of error defined in the model above uses error scaled to the number of balls hit into the defined area as opposed to scaling per fielding attempt (this is relatively irrelevant as I kept the same ratio (5:1) of error for 1b and 2b, I just decreased them two orders of magnitude).
The second adjustment that I made had to do with the probability of which fielder would get the ball. Since the first baseman will field the ball at a shallower depth, then 20% of the time he will get to the ball and get a glove on it. From this point forward if he fails 5% of the time then he records an out on 19% of balls hit into this zone. The second baseman gets into position the same 20% of the time, however 20% of the time that he does so, the first baseman will make the play in front of him. This leaves only 16% of the time that the second baseman will get his glove on the ball. From this point forward if he makes an error 1% of the time then he successfully records an out on 15.4% of balls hit in this area. This totals to 34.84% of plays being made vs. 19.8% on plays where the first baseman does not pursue the ball.
Also, if you shift the ball closer to the second baseman by increasing his likelihood of making a play and decreasing the first baseman’s likelihood of making the play then this disparity decreases until the first baseman’s fielding probability is 0. However, if the first baseman has any probability of making a play on the ball, then the odds are greater that an out will be recorded if he tries to make that play.
Adjusting the odds, as I did, points out a glaring weakness in the model, which is that error rates are held constant in the model, while in reality they would likely increase on plays where the 1b had a low probability of getting to the ball. Meanwhile it would likely decrease for the second baseman who gets to the ball more easily. I will also add that the disparity in error rates is the key to this model. GOOCH assumed the 1b was 5x as likely to commit an error on the play as a 2b, and if this is the case then it is more likely that an out will be recorded when the first baseman tries to make a play. However, as the likelihood of an error by the 1b is increased then the success rate of the play decreases. Going back to the original example where both the 1b and 2b have a 20% chance of getting in position to make the play, it would take a scenario where the 1b was about 80x as likely as the 2b to make an error before the probabilities evened out regarding the potential success in recording an out. This is obviously due to the fact that if he does not attempt a play there is an 80%+ chance that the 2b will either fail to get to the ball or make an error himself.
The basic conclusion of all of this is that a first baseman should always range to his right in an attempt to field balls if he thinks there is any reasonably possibility that he can make the play. The tipping point of this is when he is more likely to make an error after getting in position than the 2b is likely to fail on the play by either not getting to the ball or by botching it once getting to the ball.
/senseless ranting of a geology nerd
by MotherTruckinSteve on
Nov 13, 2008 3:25 AM EST
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Very interesting...
…sorry I got back to this so late but I’ve been bogged down in grading. ;) A few points on your modifications (though I have no major objections):
It’s true I kept the error rate constant. I did so because the range of errors is so small. IOW, errors are essentially a rare event. If we look at the empirical data on errors, very few are committed (and an exceedingly fewer errors are committed by 1B). What I didn’t state explicitly is that there are alot of batted balls where it doesn’t matter what the 2B or 1B do…because it is just a hit. In that smaller subset of “balls that can be fielded by either the 2B or 1B”…a very small percentage of those plays will involve making an error.
In fact, I think you could boil my argument essentially down to: “errors are extremely unlikely, don’t factor them in to your fielding decisions.”
All that said, we come to basically the same conclusions. Nice analysis. D.GOOCH
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on
Dec 3, 2008 11:56 PM EST
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Thanks for the compliments!
I’m humbled by the comments on my post. Thanks! D.GOOCH
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on
Dec 3, 2008 11:56 PM EST
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