Hot Stove Fanpost 11/20- 250ish comments

I like the Trever Miller signing

he held lefties to a .209/.302/.308 last year in 91 PA… 30Ks and 1 HR…

plus with the Rays declining his $2M option I assume he’s coming to us pretty cheap.

by E-Dizzle on Nov 20, 2008 8:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I love it if . . .

LaRussa doesn’t refuse to play him in the role he’s meant for. I feel like our management also has a little too much confidence in our lefties . . . Miller could be a great addition if we use him for what he is: A LEFTY specialist.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Nov 20, 2008 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

TLR's usage

I thought TLR was forced to “mis-use” Villone last year. I assume that he did not enjoy watching Villone load ‘em on. Izzy’s collapse trickled down the entire bullpen and we needed more innings from all the RPs.
AK in the OF, on the other hand, I have no idea of the justification.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Nov 20, 2008 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

he's done the same

with Flores and TJ in the past.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Nov 20, 2008 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

TJ actually has good stuff

He really isn’t so much of a LOOGY. He has more Jeremy Affedlt type stuff. A good fastball and a stikeout curve.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 20, 2008 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not consistently.....

And not when he hasn’t had to.

"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."

by SoonerfanTU on Nov 21, 2008 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In 2005 & 2007

Flores faced more righties than lefties. Same for Johnson in 2007.

LaRussa hasn’t made a very strong attempt to shield them from righties. I generally think he does a good job with the pen but he hasn’t been strict enough with the platoon advantages of his LH relievers.

by azruavatar on Nov 21, 2008 9:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mulling something over

So I just saw the new article over at Beyond the Box Score that suggested the Rays trade Scott Kazmir. He sure would look good in Busch, I think, and the author suggests we might be a partner (Losing Ludwick and/or Rasmus, he suggests). I personally don’t think trading Rasmus is ever a good option, so I was thinking about another route.

Could Ludwick and Bryan Anderson get the deal done? Add one of our top arms in the minors? They’re pretty loaded on pitching. They would probably ask for one of our power guys (Perez/Motte). That is a lot to give up for one guy, in my mind, but by my count Tampa needs a right fielder, a catcher of the future (unless you truly believe in Navarro), and bullpen help.

Sure would like to somehow get Zobrist too, oops, now I’m getting greedy.

by TICY on Nov 20, 2008 10:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ludwick for Zobrist and Sonnanstine?

That seems reasonable.

"A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann

by TurdFerguson on Nov 20, 2008 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

if there would be any trading partner I’d like to have for Luddy, it’d be the Rays. They have plenty of great options.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Nov 20, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

zobrist

= super grit
zobrist is 3rd on the rays ss list and has really been the floppy/spiezio equivalent for them. i believe he would be excellent in that role for the birds. i don’t see the sense in paying floppy type money for someone to fill that role. miles is a lower productivity version of zobrist. considering ben’s age, you have to look at luddy for sonny and zo as a deal that will free up dollars to make an impact elsewhere because it doesn’t really solve the ss problem (though zo could solve the 2nd base problem this year or next, depending on ak’s fate). i like kaz as well, but straight up deals of everyday players, especially with lud’s record, for a starting pitcher makes no sense to me. so, for me, any deal with them has to include a position player whether the center piece is sonny or kaz.

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Nov 23, 2008 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As of this Moorning....

….trade talks between the Cards and Braves involving Ludwick and Peavey “aren’t dead yet”. Some people think the Braves are lowering their demands. If ya like Kazmir st Busch, what about Peavey?

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/braves/entries/2008/11/20/_the_leaves_are.html?cxntfid=blogs_braves

by The MooCow on Nov 21, 2008 8:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you mean padres?

the braves don’ have peavy…

"Them Cubbies can kiss my ass" -Dizzy Dean

by Molina4MVP on Nov 21, 2008 8:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Clearly they're talking about a 3-way here...

:=8/

by The MooCow on Nov 21, 2008 8:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Go on.....

"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."

by SoonerfanTU on Nov 21, 2008 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't let him touch right handers...

vs. LH: 1.78 ERA…. 25.3 IP… 30K….10BB….209 BA against
vs. RH: 7.50 ERA…18 IP…14K…10 BB….286 BA against

"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz." Humphrey Bogart

by MRCARD on Nov 20, 2008 10:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

That was last year's numbers

"A hot dog at the ballpark is better than a steak at the Ritz." Humphrey Bogart

by MRCARD on Nov 20, 2008 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Miller's?

by stlfan on Nov 20, 2008 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

n/m

"Live like you are going to die tomorrow. Learn like you are going to live forever." John Wooden

by MRCARD on Nov 20, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Heilman?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/11/19/2008-11-19_aaron_heilman_wants_starting_role_with_m.html

the story as usual list the cards in the possible mix..

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 20, 2008 12:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Utley out 4-6 months after undegoing hip surgery

http://www.delawareonline.com/blogs/2008/11/nov-20-breaking-surgery-for-utley-feliz.html

They appear to want a legitimate left fielder Ankiel anyone? I don’t know much about the phils farm system though so I don’t know if they have anyone we need/want.

by bearcatcardfan on Nov 20, 2008 1:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Phillies have what we need

Jason Donald would be a fine player to receive from Philly. I doubt we could get him for just Ankiel, and I am not sure if we’d believe he could start in 09 or not, but he’s pretty good

by Choix003 on Nov 20, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I made a post about Jason Donald

In the other hot stove thread, but no one responded. Anyway, here was my idea:

"Minor league SS for the Phils. I was looking at his minor league numbers and they are pretty impressive. After a 1000+ abs his line is .296/.384/.458/.842. and his strikeout and walk rates (.197 and .110) are comparable to Colby’s (.200 and .111), albeit he hasn’t yet played above AA. I am not for sure how strong his defense is. He is blocked at SS by Rollins, and now the Phils are trying to find him a new position. I’m no scouting wiz or anything and I didn’t see Donald on any top prospect list going back a few years, but does anyone know if the kid is legit? Or, does anyone know if there is a big mark against him?

The Phils were supposedly in the Matt Holliday mix for a while, and I’ve seen Donald’s name w/ their top prospect Carrasco as part of Philadelphia’s package to acquire Matt. Shouldn’t the Cardinals be able to pull a similar package from Philadelphia if we offered up Luddy, given the fact that he’s A. infinitely cheaper than Holliday B he’d be under team control for 3 more years as opposed to just 2009 and C. put up comparable (if not better) offensive numbers.

I wonder if something like Ryan Ludwick, Allen Craig and maybe another piece (Boggs?) would work for Donald, Joe Blanton and Jayson Werth?

Give up: A cost controlled top 5-10 masher who, because of injuries, completed his first full season as a 30-year old. In a hitters park like Philly’s, he’d kill. Likely due 4-5 Mil in arbitration. Two top organizational prospects, one (Craig) who is blocked by other players at 3b.

Get: Young SS with a good bat, could be a part of our middle infield for a long time. 29-year old outfielder with a good bat and +speed and defense. Arbitration eligible, 3-4 Mil? I don’t know what he’s due. Back rotation starter, innings eater (205/year for 4 years) and is also arbitration eligible (he made 3.7 mil this year). I am not huge on Blanton, but he is equal to/better than Looper and likely cheaper, at least for this year.

I don’t know, this whole offer could be absurd, but I couldn’t help myself. Feel free to vivisect it as you wish. I’m only trying to get the feel of things around here."

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 20, 2008 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like Jason Donald

But I don’t think we should trade Luddy to get him. The Phils are looking for an outfielder now that they are gonna led Burrell go. I am sure that we could get Donald with Allen and Ankiel.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 20, 2008 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

All signs

That I’ve seen is that Philadelphia would be looking for a right-handed outfield bat if and when Pat Burl Ives leaves, so that’s why Luddy popped up in my mind.

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 21, 2008 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

a chris berman fan

really?

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 21, 2008 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

do those exist?

7 rec comment - November 12, 2008

by emrfg8 on Nov 21, 2008 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why wouldn't Philly plug Donald into 2B

as Utley’s sub? Given that MIF are such a rare commodity, this might be better than trading away a good prospect.

Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2

by gocards62 on Nov 22, 2008 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I made the trade suggestion

Well before news of Utley’s injury was out.

Oh, and no way am I a fan of Chris Berman.

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 22, 2008 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

glaus for donald+

might be a more interesting move, for both teams. Give us a chance to establish trade value for freese or craig before Walrus is ready, and give the phillies a 3B who could hit 40 HR’s in their silly ballpark.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 22, 2008 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

or maybe even freese for donald, straight up.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 22, 2008 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

off the wall idea...

I have no idea what the legal issues would be here…. but….

…what’s stopping us from selling Adam Kenney to a Japanese (or any foreign) team? I mean, he wants a trade, and we’re not too keen on him either. I just noticed on mlbtraderumors.com that the Rangers had just sold a pitcher to the Fukuoka SoftBank Hawks, and that last week the Yankees ( I think it was the Yankees) sold a pitcher to another team over there. Maybe it’s the difference between having “control” of a player, and just having a contract… anyway, I just started thinking “well, why not us?”

So… is this a possibility? If it is, it’d save us a couple million to spend elsewhere.

by A1R3Z on Nov 20, 2008 2:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That is an amazing idea

Though I too have no idea how it works

by bearcatcardfan on Nov 20, 2008 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just guessing

The player has a pretty big say in whether or not he is sold to a Japanese team. If they don’t have a say, I don’t really think its a good business practice to just send players to Japan if things don’t pan out between the team and that player. Sets a really bad precedent for future FA. You know, I’d like to sign there, but remember when Adam Kennedy was so keen on going there, then they sold him off to Japan.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 20, 2008 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the Yankees player asked for it.

You can’t just sell a guy to another country ;)

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 20, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm selling Sleepy CA to

Scottland for Hagis and a kilt. Cardinal red of course

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 20, 2008 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We need to at least

get a nice barrel of single malt too

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 20, 2008 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

because St Louis loves their foreign beer (Inbev Reference)

It's not what you do, It's who you do...

by pattimagee on Nov 22, 2008 5:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

don't laugh too hard

that might have been the most profitable move on WS we will see for a while. I wonder how much of a difference there would have been between the $70/share and what it would be worth today

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Nov 25, 2008 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

All our local rich people are getting even richer!

by spants on Nov 25, 2008 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

haha

if only we could . . .

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Nov 20, 2008 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wish I could trade some people from my work

I actually had this same thought when I read about Loe being “sold” to the Japanese league earlier today. Could we trade xxx to one of our competitor work places? And, if so, what would we get for him? A new copy machine? A color one?

This made my day go a lot faster, computing the “value” of the people working on my side of the hall.

by siddfynch on Nov 20, 2008 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ooh yea

playing office gm is one of my favorite pasttimes

by VolsnCards5 on Nov 21, 2008 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We need to offer Springer arbritration

Did anyone else read this on mlbtraderumors?

The Cardinals spoke to Russ Springer’s agent recently, but he’s drawing interest from several clubs.

It came from this article in the Post.

Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.

And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!

by Tackle Box on Nov 21, 2008 5:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

offering Springer arbitration is a no-brainer, right?

Is there really a worse case scenario here? Oh no, he might accept and we have to have Springer back.*

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Nov 21, 2008 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i guess worst-case

he gets awarded an $8M contract, then gets hurt in ST. But I’d guess $5-6M is more likely.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 21, 2008 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't even see that as anywhere near likely

If Springer and the Cards actually made it to a hearing I would be shocked.
What would a set-up reliever ask for in arbitration. Certainly not much more than the 3.5M he made last year. I would think the settlement would be not much more than that.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Nov 21, 2008 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

he'd be an interesting case

he’s had a 2.24 ERA over 2 years and 116 innings with the cardinals, with a 2.36 ERA/50IP season last year, and he’s 39. Pretty much everyone he compares to right now is a closer or LOOGY, and closers get paid pretty well.

Still wonder why we used franklin instead of Springer in the closers role last year…

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 21, 2008 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Because we used Springer to bail our asses out on a regular basis last year.

If there’s no Springer in the 6th or 7th inning, there often would have only been a need for Kelvin Jimenez in the 9th.

I believe in closers. But I also believe in that “get us the hell outta here” guy you send in at any moment. The cubs had Marmol last year in that role and until they wore his ass out, he was great at it.

Luckily we still have McClellan and he can probably fill that role. But he wore down last year too, so maybe, maybe not.

Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.

And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!

by Tackle Box on Nov 21, 2008 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

truth

I’m hoping Josh Kinney will be that guy next year…

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 21, 2008 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i wish he could return to

what he was…hes had a hard path to the bigs if i remeber right and then to get hurt again

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 21, 2008 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not just Kinney, but...

I think with Tyler Johnson and Kinney back in rare form for the Cards would really be the best blessing for our bullpen (besides a healthy Carpenter). Johnson’s slider was just sick… his only issue was control, which was fun sometimes. Throw in a somewhat matured Perez, Springer, some new lefty’s and I’d feel very confident in the pen…

It's not what you do, It's who you do...

by pattimagee on Nov 22, 2008 5:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A healthy TJ and Kinney

would just be wonderous for our bullpen. Think postseason 06 minus Wainwright but plus Perez and Motte.

Two goldfish are in a tank. One of them turns to the other and says, "You man the guns, I'll drive!"

by thegodfather on Nov 24, 2008 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

springer gets some love

from jayson stary:

http://statspeak.net/2008/11/world-famous-statspeak-roundtable-november-19.html

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 22, 2008 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Springer

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to resign Springer and anoint him the closer. Yes, at his age he’ll need more rest that other closers but we have several capable understudies for nights when Russ needs to sit. It allows TLR to have a vet with whom he has a history as his named closer (which TLR craves), it keeps us away from resigning Izzy (hugely important), it allows Perez and/or Motte to get a not insubstantial shot at closing on nights when Springer needs a break, and he’s the cheapest closer we will find on the market … oh, and the dude has been damn effective wearing the birds on the bat.

by jjray on Nov 22, 2008 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

and make motte the fireman

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Nov 23, 2008 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Russ Springer is like our ROOGY

He pitched 70 games and only had 50 innings. He came in to face a or two batters each time and he got out of big jams. Our bullpen would have been much worse even we didn’t have Springer to get out of our jams. I would love to resign him but he might earn to much in arb with the success he’s had the last two seasons. Also there might not be room for him in the bullpen. I think that McClellan should go into the rotation as he is better than Joel and it would allow us to have room for Springer.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 21, 2008 7:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Cano?

Just read on the yankees sb blog that they are considering signing orlando hudson at second base, and have suggested trading cano for a lefty cf like dejesus of kc. I think that a perfect trade for both of us would be a straight trade of Ank and Cano. This would DRAMATICALLY help our middle infield production by giving us a young and extremely talented hitter, who despite coming off a down year has tremendous potential. Would anybody love to see this happen as much as i would??

by kopite92 on Nov 22, 2008 2:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

since he

was less valuable than Aaron Miles last year, let alone guys like gruz, durham, kennedy and barmes, than i would not love to see this at all.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

by Dave Barry on Nov 22, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He had a down season last year

but he isn’t the only player to have a bad year. His career line is 303/.335/.468/.803. The OBP isn’t very good, but the average and slugging is excellent for a middle infielder and he is a plus defender. Plus he only 26 years old and entering his 5th season in the bigs, which means would have him relatively cheep for 2 more years. If we could get him straight up for Ankiel than that would be a steal.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But do you really believe

that Aaron Miles is a better player than Cano? The man had a down year, but he’s still young and a much better producer on the offensive end than anyone we have right now in the MIF. I’d do this deal because we can have Cano for at least two years and Ank can go to a team where giving him a lucrative deal isn’t going to be a problem.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Nov 22, 2008 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have a hard

time being impressed by any player with a .335 lifetime OBP. Most importantly however is the defense coming from a middle infielder, in which cano ranges from average , to below average depending on which metric you choose. Sure he had a bad year, he was 1 wsab, which is pretty close to replacement level, something that teams don’t trade starting center fielders for.

Of course his BA has a good chance of returning to his career levels, but if you’re going to gamble on upside, do you really want to trade your starting center fielder for it. There are plenty of guys with that kind of upside for much less of an investment.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

by Dave Barry on Nov 22, 2008 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm more willing

to make the gamble on that because I believe Colby Rasmus will be our starting CF next season. I know there’s a chance things don’t go well and Raz isn’t starting (or isn’t on the ML roster for what ever reason) but there’s also a chance Ank isn’t healthy enough to play a full season, just like 08. It’s a gamble I know, but I think Cano could be a great 2-hole hitter in front of Albert and batting in front of The Mang could definitley improve his numbers even past his career averages.

Also, to slightly change the subject there have been mentions around here about Ank for Cano+Hughes/Kennedy. That deal is a steal to me, but that probably means there is no chance in Hell it ever gets done. So I’m thinking Ank for Cano is a good deal, because we trade away some of our OF surplus and get an offensive upgrade at a premium defensive position. A slight drop in defense at 2B is okay with me, if we get more production with the bat. If we get Cano, I would even be okay with re-signing Iz2 for 09.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Nov 23, 2008 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You "have a hard time being impressed by any player with a .335 lifetime OBP?"

then you must really be unimpressed with our current 2B options, Miles and Kennedy, who have .329 and .328 lifetime OBPs, respectively.

by Ray Lankford on Nov 23, 2008 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

um yes

Here’s my point

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

by Dave Barry on Nov 24, 2008 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Heres a counter point

This

by vivaelpujols on Nov 24, 2008 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

eckstein?

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 24, 2008 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think they are referring to Cano

-16 in 08
+17 in 07

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 24, 2008 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Also notice how Hudson was plus 20

It isn’t unfathomable that he could return close to that after a bad year defensively. I’m not saying that we should sign him, but he isn’t as bad defensively as people are saying.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 25, 2008 4:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I dont get

The Robby Cano love, in his most valuable season, he was equivalent to this years jose lopez. Nobody is clamoring to bring lopez here from Seattle, yet cano is regarded as some sort of elite second baseman.

I suspect his lofty batting average is to blame for his elevated prominence in the minds of fans, but, as has been said a thousand times on veb, batting average independently is not a good indicator of value or talent.

I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.

by Dave Barry on Nov 25, 2008 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would love to bring in Jose Lopez

He would be better than Cano because he has a little more pop and he is much cheaper. The Mariners though are looking to be in contention, they have a good payroll and with health next year they would be a good team. So there probably won’t give up Lopez, would along with Ibanez was there best hitter. Cano is one of the best second baseman that we could get in a trade without giving up our best talent.

We could probably get Roberts if we gave up every promising pitcher in our organization and kozma and freese, but that obviously wouldn’t be good for our team. I would personally love to get Mark Ellis, who is incredible defensively and was very good offensively before last year. However he is only getting paid 11 mil over two years. Considering how redicously underpaid he is we would really have to pull a fast one over oakland to get him.

So Mark Ellis is probably out of the question. Same with Lopez and Roberts. Orlando Hudson is overrated and would cost too much. Therefore Cano is the best option at second base.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 25, 2008 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Mariners looking to be in contention

if that is so , the Mariners need to step back and take a closer look. They got themselves in serious trouble last year by thinking they were better than they really were. That led to the Silva and Bedard fiascos.

Now I am not saying they should just give Lopez away, but if the make the same mistakes this offseason as they did last offseason it won’t make a difference how good and young Lopez is, because by the time they are actually in contention again he will be either close to FA or aleady gone, barring an extension.

So if the Mariners were smart, they would at least explore moving Lopez .

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Nov 25, 2008 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A few things, in inverse order

If as you speculate Hudson could return to his defensive prowess, (which is a good possibility) than he very easily be much more valuable than cano.

Ellis is ridiculously underpaid, and oakland knows exactly what they have there. If he had reached free agency, I would be doing my best TOLAXOR impression yelling from my key board for an immediate signing, pretending I had some sort of influence over the whims of management.

Roberts, by all indications would be immensely expensive to obtain, and should be as he stands as a very valuable asset to Baltimore for several reasons that have very little to do with his actual value on the field.

Kelly Johnson Is available, has a higher career OBP and ISO than Cano, that’s very important when you realize BA in isolation has very little meaning . Cano’s Upside is being an average to slightly above average second baseman, right now he is a nearly replacement level player. Johnson was a League average Second baseman this year, which could be viewed as a sub-par season for him, one season ago, he posted an obp of .375.

If Cano does not return to his career levels, than we already have more valuable second baseman on the roster. It’s sad but true, but aaron miles and adam kennedy were both worth more than cano this season.

Things seattle will be competing for next season.

1. The number one draft pick in the 2010 draft

2. The worst Allocation of payroll since chrysler hired Robert Eaton.

3. Biggest Laughing stock

I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.

by Dave Barry on Nov 25, 2008 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

in what way

was cano’s 124 and 120 OPS+ in 2006/2007 (couple with his plus-16 defense in 2007) equivalent to Jose Lopez’ 104 OPS+ and league-average defense this year? In 2007, by GPA, Cano produced 110.24 runs. Lopes this year produced 87.6. That is 2.5 wins difference, offensively- about $10.7M in value- before you consider Cano’s (potentially flukish) but still excellent defense in 2007.

Unfortunately for the yankees, he had an off year both offensively and defensively, but his potential peak seems to be much much higher than Lopez right now. OTOH, he is being paid by the yankees as if he was playing to his potential when he isn’t, so his trade value should be low. But there are very real reasons to covet him, if you believe his 2008 offense was an aberration.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 26, 2008 3:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

win shares

just looked at his 06 season, in which his counting stats were highest, he stood at 18 WS, and found a comparable player this season (lopez, also at 18). I now see that his 07 campaign was higher, due to the oddly out of line defense, at 21WS, which is closer to what iwamura posted this past season.

I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.

by Dave Barry on Nov 26, 2008 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

win shares are, like ancient tech.

if that’s what you are going off of, go off of something else. ANYTHING else.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Dec 1, 2008 4:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Off topic

but wow….Pujols +20 for 1B. Notice how Adrian Gonazalez AND Derrick Lee are nowhere to be found on that list.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Nov 25, 2008 8:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that might be acceptable

Cano had an awful BABIP year last year, and will still be just 25 for all of next season, so he should improve quite a bit, and he’s potentially under control for a long time- but his contract isn’t that great; 3Y and 27M, with two awful options. I proposed making this trade right after the off-season, but I’ve thought about it a lot and have cold feet now. Ankiel has the potential to be tremendously valuable, and as a CF.

I’d rather keep ankiel- try to extend him in this offseason to a below-market 3-4Y deal, something like 4/40, and then try to get Greene for less (or win the auction for furcal). I’m not recommending this, but to demonstrate how bad Cano’s contract is, Greene could be extended for 4Y/48 and still be a better deal than cano’s options. His OPD upside may be MUCH higher, depending on how fluke-y his short 2008 was, and he plays SS.

And we could then trade Ankiel for a much bigger package after he’s proven himself next year.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 22, 2008 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I know this wont factor in

but with the patience the Cards have had with him, you’d think that would factor in on contract talks. But he’s a boras guy and will probably stick it to the birds. I like yer plan assuming it’d work.

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 23, 2008 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what are the odds?

of Rick Ankiel being traded………suddenly waking up ready to pitch again………and wins a Cy Young with someone else…………seems very unlikely but stranger things have happened…..even to him

by Hinkster on Nov 23, 2008 8:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

and remember what happened the last time

a guy like ankiel was traded to the yankees…

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 23, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ankiel in the bronx?

not saying I wouldn’t consider the merits of getting cano in return, but I have an extremely hard time believing that NY would want ankiel’s tenuous mental state under the extreme magnifying glass that is the NY press. I would be willing to bet that a lot of teams look at ankiel with an asterisk, wondering if he could continue out of his protected comfort-zone of st louis.

by ribbij on Nov 23, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

unless matheny

comes out of reitrement…highly unlikely..stinking carlos hernandez..ick

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 23, 2008 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I love to pick on Hernandez as much as the next guy

but even during the regular season Rick gave up 90BB in 175 innings. If a walk rate of around 5 per 9IP wasn’t a sign of major control problems, well then I don’t know what would have been

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Nov 23, 2008 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He

was pretty young, though. I think there was a solid idea that he might improve on that a bit. Of course, he didn’t.

by spants on Nov 24, 2008 2:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

probably true

but i still balieve that matheny talks him down. It is rarely mentioned how bad Hernandez was and that Mathenthy being hurt was probably a big part..pitchers are creatures of habit you hear it all the time..save ricks career as a pitcher maybe not, but i don’t think it would hav been that ugly.

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 24, 2008 2:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Does anybody think that we should try and get Tazawa from Japan

He wouldn’t cost us much because he is basically an an undrafted free agent. He is 22 years old, but he hasn’t pitched in any real games yet. He has excellent stuff and might be worth the risk. It says on mlb.com that the Red Sox offered him a 6 mil contract. Couldn’t we do that?

by vivaelpujols on Nov 23, 2008 11:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

sadly

if Tazawa is for real, we’ll never outbid the red sox for his services.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 24, 2008 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Do we really want to get in a bidding war with Boston?

I sure don’t…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 24, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As for the poll question

I voted 95-100 million for a few reasons. Let me start of by saying I hope I’m wrong, I’d like to see some new “impact” players that may very well cost some money. The Card’s payroll has never exceeded 100M. It was 90.3 and 99.6 in 2007 and 2008, respectively. It isn’t about to jump that much in one year again. Besides, a lot of contracts (Lohse, Wainwright) will increase in price for 2010, not 2009. Then you have to consider that the bargain-basement approach that has become commplace doesn’t cost much (obviously). Where are we going to spend big money? I don’t see us signing an expensive FA so I don’t know what will cause a large jump in payroll.

Two goldfish are in a tank. One of them turns to the other and says, "You man the guns, I'll drive!"

by thegodfather on Nov 24, 2008 11:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Those numbers

Came from Cot’s, correct?

According to Derrick Goold, the actual number for this past season was a little over $105 million, so I see no reason why it wont exceed $100 million for this year.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 24, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah,

the Cots and USA Today numbers are both from the beginning of the season.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 24, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah I see

That makes more sense. I didn’t realize the USA Today data was based on the beginning of the year numbers.

Two goldfish are in a tank. One of them turns to the other and says, "You man the guns, I'll drive!"

by thegodfather on Nov 24, 2008 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I suppose we all heard

Renteria signed with the Giants.

2 years, $18 million

The Giants are making a push for the NL West!

by mojowo11 on Nov 24, 2008 4:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

looks like edgar is now a giant

2 years, $18M, according to mlbtraderumors.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 24, 2008 4:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

some discussion at http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2008/11/16/662811/pricing-renteria

Should that be here instead?

by astrostl on Nov 24, 2008 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No, fine where it is

It is an actual analysis of Renteria’s worth. This thread is for “I think we should sign ____ because I like him” type stuff, or “I read where ____ signed with ____”

Plus, one of the front page guys wrote that post. I’m pretty sure they know the rules.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 24, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And now they say no

MLBTradeRumors now says the rumor was false. Edgar is still on the market.

by punditmoi on Nov 24, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rule 5 Draft...

MLB Trade Rumors just posted possible players who could be drafted in the Rule 5 Draft this December.

A couple of names interested me…

Kei Igawa – SP making 4 million/year with the Yankees and is signed through 2011. He has struggled in the bigs, but posted some good numbers at AAA last season (14-6, 3.45 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 117 K, in 156 IP). Would this be a cheap way to gain some insurance for the 5th rotation spot (worst case scenario he goes back to the Yankees and we lose 25,000, or Duncan turns him into the pitcher he was hyped to be when he originally came over).

Daniel Mayora – SS in the Rockies organization. .288 avg, .360 obp, .422 slg, .788 ops, Possibly another player that could be a cheap alternative for the middle infield.

by Jumsy on Nov 24, 2008 4:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

We already have 2 Daniel Mayora

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 24, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ugh...stupid arrow keys

We already have 2 Daniel Mayora’s in the minors right now in Pete Kozma and Tyler Greene. I don’t think he’s going to make the jump to the big leagues for a full season and contribute.

I don’t think Igawa will fall far enough for the Cardinals to get him, but he should be the guy that they target if he is still there. This would eliminate them having to bring back Brad Thompson and would be good insurance at the back of the rotation.

Nobody else on the list really interests me.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 24, 2008 5:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is that Key Igawa plus his contract?

or are the Yankees eating all that?

www.salukihoops.com

by salukihoops on Nov 24, 2008 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know...

I’m not sure how the rules work on that actually.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 24, 2008 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If I remember right, Rule 5 draftees cost $50K and nada mas.

by tom s. on Nov 25, 2008 3:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand that portion of it

But if we keep him all season do we then assume the rest of his contract after that? Do we have to negotiate with the Yankees to see who ends up picking up his $$$ next year, or do they, or we, have to pick up the whole tab?

It’s a bit strange that he’s been left off of the 40 man considering that Pettitte, Giambi, Abreu, and Mussina all look to be gone next year, thus opening up spots on the roster. Considering all the pitching injuries they’ve had the past couple of years and losing two quality innings eaters to retirement, they must have soured on him Irabu-style to leave him unprotected.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 25, 2008 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

from what it sounds like

the yanks plan on adding several arms via free agency. they are going to try at least.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Nov 26, 2008 12:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

costs 50K to get the rights to him

you still have to pay the salary on top of that. IE We paid Barton 400K for his services last year. I’m pretty sure we’d have to pay igawa as well.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 25, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We will have to pay Igawa's contract,

but since it looks so cheap, wouldn’t he still be a decent pickup? I wonder what his splits look like…

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Nov 25, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Donald Veal makes the most sence

His is lefthanded and can strike guys out. 24 years old, its time for him to get a crack in a big league pen.

The Cubs should have protected him, I’m sure someone will give this left a shot…and why not?

He’ll probably be gone by the time the cards pick at 18 but if he’s still there I’d let him audition in ST since the only thing to lose is 25k

www.salukihoops.com

by salukihoops on Nov 24, 2008 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing better

than stealing another productive player away from the Cubs….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 24, 2008 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Veal's probably not ready

He’d have to hang around on the team for the whole season, and this is a guy who had a 4.58 ERA at AA last year. Maybe he’d stick as a LOOGY, but I doubt it.

by mojowo11 on Nov 25, 2008 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Call me crazy

but shouldn’t the name of this site be Viva Los Birdos?

by RayMonD! on Nov 24, 2008 5:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

nope

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/pages/manifesto

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 24, 2008 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I raised this before

Grammatically you are correct. The number and gender of the definite article has to agree with the noun. But I am pretty sure Orland Cepeda, being from Puerto Rico, is fluent in Spanish. So he was just messing around when he coined “El Birdos”.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Nov 25, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Also

Birdos is totally not a word in Spanish.

bird = pájaro

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Nov 30, 2008 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep. Spanglish

You are right. That’s an example. It’s like saying “parquear” instead of “estacionar”.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Dec 1, 2008 1:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ty sleepy

by RayMonD! on Nov 24, 2008 5:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Use the

reply button, please. It’s located next to the time-stamp of the comment you wish to reply to. Thanks.

by spants on Nov 24, 2008 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So apparently Renteria ain't a Giant (yet?)

Nothing makes sense anymore

by mattybobo on Nov 24, 2008 8:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

makes perfect sense. David Eckstein gets on the intertubes, starts a couple of rumors about

FA SS getting ridiculous money (4y $48M for Furcal, 2y $18M for Renteria), puts a little whiskey in Theo Epstein’s coffee, and all of a sudden he’s starting at SS for Boston for the next 3 years for $25M. Theo Epstein wakes up with a headache and the smallest, grittiest SS in the bigs (not counting Miles).

by tom s. on Nov 25, 2008 3:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Combined with Pedroia

that would be the smallest but toughest MI in the history of baseball.

Favorite Cardinals moment: 06’ White Sox series, Brad Thompson, Timo Perez, David Eckstein, and Aaron Miles are all in a meeting on the mount with Tony. The baby face and midgets holding the fort (I think we were down by 20 at the time).

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 25, 2008 4:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I will take the ring!

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Nov 25, 2008 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

baby face?

his name is Puppy Kicker

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Nov 25, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't name him "Baby Face"

Hence, the lack of capitalization. If I wanted to call him by called them by their proper names, by all means I would have said Puppy Kicker and the Lollipop Guild.

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 25, 2008 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry for the "call him by called"

I meant “call them by their..”

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 25, 2008 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lollipop Guild?

geez, that would have made posting the lineup a lot easier during some of those late season game threads.

We could have went with
Lol
li
APu
Luddy
Pop
Gu
Yadi
Wagonmaker
ild

Okay, not exactly easier, but much more fun

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Nov 26, 2008 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

was that the game that edmonds killed himself

trying to save mark mulder’s career? Or was it the one in which Marquis completely collapsed? Either way, you may be the only cardinal fan in the world who has a single positive memory from that week… even the reyes one-hitter was miserable.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 26, 2008 3:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the game in which Marquis completely collapsed?

I’m sorry, you’ll have to be more specific.

by tom s. on Nov 26, 2008 4:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I'm pretty sure

it was the one where both Timo and Duncan homered, but not completely sure…

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 27, 2008 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Multiple sources saying Sweet lou says

the Cubs are*no longer* in on peavy…So is it today or tommorrow they obtain him in a trade?

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 25, 2008 4:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Jose Reyes

I know this guy is not everyone’s favorite, but I remember hearing during the season that the Mets management was souring on Reyes. Anyone think he can be had and what would he cost?

Creates a lot of runs and plays every day. Adds speed.

Ludwick for Reyes with Rasmus moving into the OF. The Mets could probably use another OF. Do they have any SS in the minors?

by The Duke on Nov 25, 2008 8:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

They don't have anybody in the minors

They traded all of their good minor leaguers last year to get Santana, who they sorely needed. They don’t even stay in contention without him.

I don’t think that Reyes is going anywhere. I think the organization was upset with him because he was so vocal in the press when the fired Willie Randolph. He and Randolph were quite close I guess. He’s a premium talent with no direct replacement unless they go out and pony up for Furcal — and that makes less sense for them than signing a good second baseman, resigning Oliver Perez, and hoping that they can find a closer to replace Wagner. Those would seem to be their priorities over finding a left-fielder, especially when they could find a corner outfielder on the free agent market that’s nearly as good (Dunn, Ibanez, Burrell) as Ludwick without giving up one of the best SS in the game.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 25, 2008 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Red Sox

need a catcher. How about some sort of a Ludwick, Anderson, Perez/Motte, Kennedy package for Pedroia? I know it wouldn’t work for several reasons, but it would be fun to have two reigning MVPs in the infield, wouldn’t it?

by WyoCardsFan on Nov 26, 2008 10:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't do Ludwick for Pedroia

Much less all those other guys for Pedroia. I think he’s a good player who had a phenomenal year, but I don’t think he’s the type of guy who’s going to put up those numbers every year — which he’d have to do to replace Ludwick’s offense and Kennedy’s defense.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 26, 2008 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Nov 28, 2008 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jesus,

are you a sox fan or something?

For Ludwick, Anderson, Motte, Kennedy, you could probably get value of more than two pedroias.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Nov 26, 2008 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Sox

do need a catcher, but they aren’t gonna give up their reigning MVP to get one. No chance Pedroia is getting moved this offseason. I bet they re-sign Varitek to a 1-year deal (but he should probably retire) and begin to search for a catcher in 2010. Victor Martinez (w/ a club option) and Bengie Molina will both be free agents.

Besides that package is waaaayyy too much to give up for only Pedroia.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Nov 26, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am certainly not

A Sox fan, but I am a Pedroia fan. The package would certainly be too much, but it would be what it would take. Kennedy brings the value of the package down on the Cards’ end.

by WyoCardsFan on Nov 26, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pedroia

isn’t going anywhere…only the white sox, and blue jays get rid of MVP caliber guys..

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 26, 2008 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Sox do need a catcher.

They probably wouldn’t mind having Anderson in their system. But for 2009, no. They will want someone ready for NOW. That means they’ll be getting someone like Gerald Laird or Kelly Shoppach.

I can’t imagine them trading Pedroia to anyone right now. There is no replacement for him in their system. They’ll throw some pitching at Texas or Cleveland. Catching problem solved. That’s the way they roll……

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Nov 26, 2008 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder if Anderson could shake something else nice out of their roster.

Jed Lowrie’s likely not touchable, but I wonder if they have a leftie like Javier Lopez who might be available.

by tom s. on Nov 27, 2008 4:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder about another 2b/ss option

Mike aviles for KC, KC said people besides soria and grienke were available. He’s a little old for a 27 year old rookie. But he had a decent line last year ( .325, 10 HR, 51 RBI’s, 68 R, 8SB) Most of his innings played were at short but he also played 2nd, and 3rd.

by from First to Third on Nov 27, 2008 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

sorry forgot the link

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/avilemi01.shtml

by from First to Third on Nov 27, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Aviles not happening.

Kansas City is in the same boat as the Cardinals at the MI spots. Aviles is the only one they know they will have starting in the MI next year…I’m sure they will not trade him for that reason.

by stlfan on Nov 27, 2008 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

shock shock

the peavy deal back on the table… http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/11/towers-finds-th.html when lou said they were moving on i felt it was only a matter of time before he’s a cub

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 27, 2008 6:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

A few players we NEED to trade this offseason

1. David Freese/Allen Craig — I think one if not both should be traded. Brett Wallace is the real deal and Lunhow has said he thinks he will stick at 3rd defensively. Wallace is younger and more advanced than both Freese and Craig and could very well be our starting 3rd basemen after Glaus’ contract expires. Both Freese and Craig put up very solid numbers last year in AAA and AA respectively (Freese went .306/.361/.550 and Craig went .304/.373/.494).

Potential suitors include: LA, Minn, LAA, Cle

2. Brian Anderson — There is no where for Brian Anderson to go in this organization. With so many teams right now having catching needs now is the time to deal away Anderson. Anderson is young, a great pure hitter, and has had good results in every level of the minors. His value could go up slightly with a hot start next year in AAA but why wait that long with so many teams in desperate need of catching?

Potential suitors include: NYY, Bos, Oak

by BigMac545 on Nov 29, 2008 1:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The problem

with our minor league prospects not named Rasmus is that none of them will bring anything ML ready in return on their own. Also, we need to keep one of Freese or Craig (I prefer Freese) against the possibility that the Walrus doesn’t stick at 3B. So we have a raft of prospects with value but not great value. The only way I see to get something we need is too package guys like Anderson and Boggs with somebody off the ML roster such as Ankiel. Somebody out there needs both an outfielder and catcher. What can we get in return?

by jjray on Nov 29, 2008 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Possibilities Within Our Division

I think some trade possibilities exist within our own division. I know that this is rarely done, but due to the economy it might be possible this year. For instance, Houston wants to dump salary. They are talking of trading Valverde, a proven closer making around five million. They need catching. Anderson for Valverde?
Also, but much less likely, Cubs might trade a ss for Ankiel? They have Theriot who I would love to get, or Ronnie Cedeno who is adequate. Perhaps Cubs needs could even be worked into a three way deal where baby bears get Peavy, Cards get Theriot and a prospect, Cards send S.D. Skip, and several of our AAAA players. S.D. also wants to dump salary. Just several possibilities. What a great off season with so many variables.

victim of the sixties

by victim of the sixties on Nov 29, 2008 1:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Are you suggesting we help the Cubs land Peavy?

The thought makes me ill … but the small bears are probably going to land Peavy in any event so we might as well get something we need out of the deal (like Theriot).

by jjray on Nov 29, 2008 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Peavy in wrigley,

his ERA outside petco is terrible, imagine replacing petco with that.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Nov 29, 2008 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

a 3.80 ERA is terrible?

Furthermore, (Warning! Small sample size!)
His ERA at Wrigley is 3.68

8/1/02 – 6 IP, 2 ER
8/12/04 – 5 IP, 1 ER
4/13/05 – 7 IP, 2 ER
5/14/08 – 4 IP, 4 ER
TOTAL: 22 IP, 9 ER

"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa

by adiueordie on Nov 30, 2008 1:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I Pray the cubs get peavy.

I literally salivate at the idea that the cubs give up dan haren prospects and zambrano money for a 3.80 ERA.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Nov 30, 2008 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i thought the same thing about lilly

i, along with most, thought he would get slaughtered and he pitched pretty freakin well. i’ll believe that peavy will pitch bad in wrigley when i see it.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Dec 2, 2008 2:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ted Lilly was better than league average last year, the year before that, and the year before that.

He pitched over 200 innings the last two years-that’s with the Cubs. Last season he even bounced back after a horrendous start-still, he was better than league average when the season ended. I wish we would have signed him.

I have no doubt that Jake Peavy will make the necessary adjustments to whatever park he lands in. Including Chicago.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Dec 2, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rick Ankiel for Ronnie Cedeno?

Really? That would be a terrible trade.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometime it rains.

by garden nome on Dec 1, 2008 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

MLB.com reports Cardinals offer no arbitration...

to any of its Free Agents.

Link :
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081201&content_id=3697378&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl&partnerId=rss_stl

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby

by thegashousegang on Dec 1, 2008 7:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Looper

Why did we not offer Looper arbitration? Worst case scenario we have a reliable starter for about 7 million for one year. Just doesnt make sense to me.

by eburn40oz on Dec 1, 2008 7:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

that one surprised me.....

I can see the rest not getting an offer, but I thought they would offer him arbitration…..

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby

by thegashousegang on Dec 1, 2008 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hopefully that means

Mo is planning on spending big to fill the SS hole and doesn’t want to take the risk that Looper would accept and then we would be on the hook for that 7 mil that could go toward other needs.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Dec 1, 2008 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Only reasonable scenario explaining the failure to offer Looper arb. We kissed a sandwich pick goodbye on that one. Last year our sandwich turned into Lance Lynn.

by jjray on Dec 2, 2008 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

O9 WILL BE 08 AGAIN

The way things are going i see us virtually having the exact same team as last year. Brendan Ryan or Miles at short Kennedy at 2b and Izzy and Perez closing. And Boggs as a fifth starter. Things not looking to good its bad when Miller/Rhoades might be our biggest free agent signing.

by eburn40oz on Dec 1, 2008 7:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

such optimism...

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on Dec 1, 2008 9:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

virtually the same

looks like the fa’s will be gone..ha

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Dec 1, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Livan Hernandez?

Just to throw another name in the Hot Stove Hopper…
What are the chances the Cardinals pick up this guy? If they are looking for an innings eater at a reasonable price, doesn’t he represent a good, cost-affordable alternative?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3573

Wouldn’t you pay $5M over one year for 12 wins and 200 innings?

by JWO on Dec 2, 2008 1:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

He was one of the worst starters in the majors last year

The guy had a 6.50 ERA.

5.85 FIP, if you’re curious.

He was atrocious. No team should sign him to a major league deal, let alone for $5 million. He only stayed in the rotation as long as he did because the Twins were doing their thing with keeping Liriano in the minors.

by mojowo11 on Dec 2, 2008 2:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Definitely

We need to stay away from Livan. Hopefully Duncan doesn’t see this and get the idea of another reclamation project.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Dec 3, 2008 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would definitely pay $5m for 12W and 200 innings. I would pay more.

But I fail to see the connection between Livan and those numbers.

I would have paid Looper the arbitration costs which would have been somewhat higher, but would have likely gotten us there.

I’m not sure who we get for $5m this year who puts out those numbers. Wolf?

by tom s. on Dec 2, 2008 4:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

For TWELVE WINS???

To quote my daughter…“OMG.”

Wins are probably the worst stat in all of baseball. Livan Hernandez is horrible. Horrible. Horrible. Horrible.

He will allow over 1.5 base runners per inning. He never strikes anyone out. Kalk’s F/X tool has his avg FB at 84.82. His FIP hasn’t been below 4.00 since 2004 and has been skyrocketing since. His opponent’s slugging percentage last year was over .500.

Basically we have a guy whose strategy is to lob the ball over the plate and hope it doesn’t get hammered somewhere. No thanks.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 3, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

why not pay Jamie Moyer that amount

At least he’s still a good pitcher…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Dec 3, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

gammons is saying

that the braves are very close to acquiring javier vazquez for multiple players. among names discussed going to atlanta are brent lillibridge and jo-jo reyes.

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on Dec 2, 2008 6:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

New Trade

Javier Vasquez just got traded to the Braves for Jojo Reyes, Lillibridge, and someone else.

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Dec 2, 2008 6:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

damn, beat me.

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Dec 2, 2008 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so does that mean they are out on Peavy?

That sounds like a pretty good deal for the Sox.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Dec 2, 2008 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would assume so...

Did the sox’s offer Cabrerra arbitration?

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Dec 2, 2008 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Back to Hernandez

JWO why do you think the cardinals would give Hernandez 5 mil a year when we could have got Looper for no more than 7 mil, Looper is much more reliable and a better overall pitcher than Hernandez

by eburn40oz on Dec 2, 2008 6:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

If you want to respond to JWO's comment

you can click the ‘reply’ button next to his posting time on the comment.

And yes, you make a good point about Loop.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Dec 3, 2008 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Can anyone explain to me.....

Why I had an extremely realistic dream about the cardinals acquiring Denard Span for David Freese?….I had to check the paper just to see if was real or not….weird

I hate winter!!!!

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Dec 2, 2008 8:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Let's hope you're right

and that it leads to us dealing a couple of outfielders for a starting pitcher or middle infielder…..

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Dec 3, 2008 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i've actually heard the twins are wanting to trade delmon young moreso than spann

not sure freese would get it done…plus they are front runners for casey blake

by VolsnCards5 on Dec 3, 2008 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I had a dream that Burnett was going to sign with the Cardinals back in 2005

I can still remember it to this day. It was so vivid I googled it first thing when I woke up.

Nice Robot

by azruavatar on Dec 3, 2008 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And that dream has inspired your life's quest ever since...

…Is that pretty much the gist of it?

All kidding aside, I think Burnett on the right contract is a good guy to target. Unfortunately those are probably two mutually exclusive terms…“Burnett” and “right contract” I mean of course.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Dec 3, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

mlbtraderumors

says ATL is making a push for him…http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/braves-preparin.html

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Dec 3, 2008 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Does Atlanta have all their money invested in Gold?

Their rotation wasn’t great last year, I’ll admit, but their offense wasn’t anything to write home about either, and they badly need a corner outfielder with some power, a CF that can play baseball, and possibly a closer and bullpen help.

If they are going after all of these pitchers, do they plan on winning games 2-1 all of the time, or did they bury $100M under home plate last offseason and are going to spend it all next year?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Dec 3, 2008 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Possible deals?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/perrottos-lates.html

Says the cubs may send felix pie and Ronny cedeno to BAl as part of a three way for peavy.

Also noteable Jenks and Dye to NYMets?..

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Dec 3, 2008 2:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Cards finally sign Treve Miller.....

Here is the official press release from today.. :

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20081203&content_id=3700607&vkey=pr_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl&partnerId=rss_stl

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby

by thegashousegang on Dec 3, 2008 5:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

At last!

The nation can stop holding its breath!

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Dec 3, 2008 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

one LOOGY down one to go aswell as 2MIFs a closer and a back of the rotation guy

by bearcatcardfan on Dec 3, 2008 7:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hopefully

TJ does well in ST and fills in as our second lefty in the pen. That could free up some extra money to to after a higher level MIF than if we had to sign another LOOGY. I may just be pessimistic here, but I seriously doubt we sign two new MIF’s this offseason. I think if we get a SS we’ll stick AK at second, and if we get a solid 2B we’ll end up re-signing an Iz2 type for another 1 year deal.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Dec 3, 2008 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

$2 mil isn't bad

Maybe Mo will now focus on signing someone who actually plays a large role in our pen cough springer cough

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Dec 3, 2008 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this will help on any Wallace rumors

did everyone else know that a PTBNL has to be named within 6 months and can’t be in the same league as the player he was traded for?

At least that rules out any Wallace as a PTBNL rumors for at least a couple months

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Dec 3, 2008 9:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

khalil greene

possibly to you guys??? link

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 3, 2008 10:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

that would be interesting

but if San Diego is just dumping salary what would they possible ask for? If it is St. Louis I hope it isn’t anymore than Brad Thompson and/or Brendan Ryan. Greene could be a good fit for the Cards. Plays good defense, has pop, and maybe leaving the Petco Park abyss as well as hitting in a real lineup will improve his hitting.

by block writer on Dec 3, 2008 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs