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Line of Defense

My new favorite website is beyond the boxscore. It’s not a new website at all; in fact, it’s part of our sbnation family but it is one I’ve recently fallen in love with. Whenever I’m looking around at websites for ideas about what to write about or just baseball info, BTB is one of the first ones I turn to.

I stumbled across this post a few days ago and I thought I’d take a gander at what the same sort of approach had to say about the Cards in ’08. We all know that the Cards were a much better defensive team in ’08, particularly in the infield and the post linked above inspired me to see what impact it had on our pitchers last year.

My expectation was that, like the Rays, the Cards’ pitchers BABIP against would have been significantly lower last year. After all, our team ERA improved by nearly half a run last year – 4.20 last year vs. 4.67 in ’07. The defense yielded just 46 unearned runs vs. 64 in ’07. I didn’t find that at all. In fact, the BABIP of Wellemeyer, Franklin, Springer, Looper, Thompson, Pineiro, and Isringhausen all went up from ’07 to ’08. Only Adam Wainwright saw his BABIP fall from ’07 to ’08. See below: (I only compared pitchers who pitched 40 or more IP in the season).

BABIP 07
Flores .390
Jimenez .364
Wells .332
Wainwright .315
Thompson .301
Pineiro .294
Reyes .287
Looper .284
Wellemeyer .259
Franklin .255
Springer .240
Isringhausen .226
Percival .215

BABIP 08
Isringhausen .338
Pineiro .318
McClellan .318
Villone .311
Franklin .308
Lohse .303
Looper .297
Wainwright .281
Perez .278
Wellemeyer .273
Springer .265

There are some noticeable differences at the top and it says all you need to know about last year’s pen that Isringhausen went from the best BABIP on the team to the worst in ’08. People hit lasers against him all over the yard. His LD% went from 18.1% to 21.6% -- a big jump. Still, team BABIP against only fell 2 points – from .303 to .301. I expected a bigger drop than that. There’s absolutely no way that explains the fact that the team yielded 104 fewer runs from ’07 to ’08.

So what was the explanation?

K/9 BB/9 HR/9 LOB% ERA FIP LD% GB% FB% HR/FB
Cards’ staff ‘07 5.92 3.19 1.05 68.1 4.67 4.66 19.0 43.5 37.6 9.6
Cards’ staff ‘08 5.92 3.07 1.01 72.9 4.20 4.40 20.8 45.3 33.9 10.3

A few things here jump out at me. After seeing that there was very little BABIP difference, I expected to see a higher K rate and a considerably lower BB rate. Well, the K rate was exactly the same but the BB rate did improve considerably. Our strand rate was much higher in ’08. In fact, in ’07 it was more than 2.5% lower than league average and in ’08 it was nearly 1.5% better than league average. It was 8th in baseball last year and 29th in ’07. There’s a big difference. Strand rate is subject to a lot of luck. Makes you wonder whether we were particularly lucky last year or unlucky in ’07. Maybe neither – we did see a whole lot of Jimenez, Flores, and Kip Wells in ’07.

Our HR rate fell a little in ’08. It still strikes me as a little high considering the pitchers’ park in which we play half our games but maybe not. It’s interesting that our HR rate fell despite the increase in our HR/FB. Clearly that’s a result of our pitchers giving up far fewer fly balls in ’08. They saw increases in the LD rate (bad) and in our GB rate (good) so there were fewer fly balls that might leave the park. Even though our HR/FB went up in ’08, it was right at league average in ’07 and only slightly higher than league average in ’08. I’d have thought there was some bad luck for our pitchers last year (as HR/FB is often associated w/ luck also) but, if we’re going to be right at league average both seasons, it seems that luck had little to do w/ it.

So our BB rate improved, our GB rate improved slightly, and our strand rate improved. How significant was all that? If you believe ERA, pretty damned significant. However, look at the FIPs. In ’07, our ERA was a pretty true measure of our how well our pitchers pitched – the FIP was almost exactly the same as our ERA. Last year, our ERA was .20 runs per 9 IP better than our FIP – meaning that our pitchers weren’t as good as they appeared, to the tune of 1 run every 5 games. In other words, our pitchers weren't that much better than our pitchers in '07. Maybe that, more than the difference in BABIP, is the true indicator of how well our defense played last year. With an average defense, our pitchers should have yielded 711 earned runs (w/ a 4.40 ERA) – an increase of 32 earned runs over what they actually yielded. Those 32 runs would have been worth at least 3 wins in the standings. I think it’s pretty fair to say that our defense added at least 3 wins just by how they improved the pitching – something to keep in mind as Mo makes his decisions this winter.

BTW, congrats to Oquendo for being interviewed for the M’s job. I’m sorry for him that he didn’t get it but I do believe it’s always good to be part of that process. He’ll get more interviews and have a managerial job soon enough.

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So basically

Replacing Eck with Izturis and reducing Miles’ playing time HELP the club in the long run? That is basically what we did. Isn’t lowering Miles’ playing time so he wouldn’t be overexposed (especially at SS) what we were calling for all of 07?

2B 08:
44% AK
34% Miles
11% Lopez
10% Ryan

2B 07:
44% AK
41% Miles
9% Ryan

SS 08:
69% Izturis
18% Ryan
12% Miles

SS 07:
66% Eckstein
21% Miles
11% Ryan

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Nov 20, 2008 8:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Vote for Pujols

We the fans of Major League Baseball can vote for the “This Year In Baseball” awards. The Greatest Baseball Player Alive is up for a few. It only takes a moment:

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/awards/y2008/tyib/index.jsp

Very interesting breakdown of the pitching staff. Especially, the BABIP figures. You’d think with the improved MIF and OF defense from a year ago that the BABIP figure would drop considerably.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 20, 2008 9:56 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Play of the year

As I have stated before, the play of the year award is messed up, Ankiel’s throws in Col are not on there, nor is Pujols running from Second on a dribbler, yet a standard “I fell into a wall” catch is on there….come on.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Nov 20, 2008 10:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know what you mean

I don’t get how some of the Play of the Year nominees made it.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 20, 2008 10:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

this is very true

boycott the vote

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 20, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone else see

Cards signed Trever Miller from the Rays?

by mdgoldstein on Nov 20, 2008 10:13 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

whoops

missed last threads comments on it, nevermind!

by mdgoldstein on Nov 20, 2008 10:15 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

For those VEBers who missed yesterday, a Miller rundown for today

It appears that Mo has made the Cards’ first FA signing of the offseason, and it’s a LOOGY from the AL Champs: Trever Miller.

The 35-year-old will be entering is Age 36 season. Miller is a Type B FA who made $2M last season for the Devil Rays.

2008 Stats:
68 Appearances / 43.1 IP / 44 K / 20 BB / 4.15 ERA / 1.36 WHIP / .242 BAA

vs. Lefties:

.209 BAA / .302 OBPA / .308 SLGA

For comparison’s sake, here are Villone and Flores vs. LHB from 2008:

Villone: .176 BAA / .306 OBPA / .318 SLGA (30 BB overall)
Flores: .314 BAA / .422 OBPA / .549 SLGA

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 20, 2008 10:21 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Any word on how much this is costing us?

Career Line
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO
14 14 4.43 519 5 0 0 10 - 422.1 435 227 208 45 37 198 354
 
Video of him coming inside on Howard for the strikeout…
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200810233638815

By the way I just found out what LOOGY means… woohoo!

It's not what you do, It's who you do...

by pattimagee on Nov 20, 2008 10:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No word on salary that I can find

Last year, he made $1.6M in-season and the Rays exercised a $400K buyout. Hopefully, it’s under $2M.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 20, 2008 10:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Under $2M would be great

Because that would mean we have some extra cash to use on a middle infielder. I think Mo knows what he is doing…

Two goldfish are in a tank. One of them turns to the other and says, "You man the guns, I'll drive!"

by thegodfather on Nov 20, 2008 11:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We have lots of extra cash to use on a MIFer...

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 20, 2008 12:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Department of Corrections

Miller is not a Type B.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 20, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

he is nothing

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-11-05-elias-player-rankings_N.htm

BTW Springer is a Type A FA Izzy is a Type B.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Nov 20, 2008 2:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He is nothing?

Are we going to get left handed batters out in 2009 with non-existence? Does un-being have a good fastball?

by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

nahthing, Lebowski

vee ahr German nihilists

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 20, 2008 4:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

say what you will

about LaRussa’s afinity for matchups, at least it’s an ethos.

by brackenthebox on Nov 20, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

heh

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 20, 2008 5:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I mean more cash

than if we used a bunch on signing, say, Fuentes

Two goldfish are in a tank. One of them turns to the other and says, "You man the guns, I'll drive!"

by thegodfather on Nov 20, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We do,

but only if we can sign them to a 1 or 2 year deal. If it’s longer than that we have a lot less cash to spend…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 20, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know that yesterday was the last day

for complaints about post-season awards, BUT……..

Derrick Goold wrote in his Birdland blog yesterday that Gold Glove ballot results, while not released publicly, are not exactly secret either. Troy Glaus finished second to DWright of the Mets and (here’s the part that really annoys me) Albert finished THIRD behind Adrian Gonzalez, SD and Derrek Lee, CHI. How does Albert finish behind not one but BOTH of these guys?

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 20, 2008 10:35 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I know exactly what you mean

I honestly have given up trying to figure out what these guys are watching

For the last few years I thought that it was obvious that Yadi was clearly the best defensive catcher and that he got screwed out of the GG… then this year I kept thinking that he was having an off year behind the plate and he gets the GG

Maybe they thought that Albert didn’t need another accolade… “Roberto Clemente Award and MVP??? Let somebody else win something already Albert! GEEZ!!!”

SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426

by FredbirdisaDork on Nov 20, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

probably because people don't check the stats

and just assume that Lee is the better fielder, he’s gotta have the upperhand somewhere, right? wrong. I remember getting into an argument and got someone banned this summer over the Pujols vs. D. Lee defense argument

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 20, 2008 4:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well, DLee is taller

so he can get to more high throws.

;)

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 20, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh yeah

I forgot that that was the crux of his argument, yeesh

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 20, 2008 5:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

HA!

I remember that! That was so damn funny.

Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.

And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!

by Tackle Box on Nov 20, 2008 8:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

that guy was an idiot

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 21, 2008 2:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Am I the only one looking forward

to the possible future and somewhat ironic “It’s Miller time” slogan next year, especially at home games in [InBev] Stadium?

by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2008 11:56 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

they should get Bill Murray from Ghostbusters saying it

Then it would be even more ironic considering he’s an unabashed Cardinal Hater :)

SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426

by FredbirdisaDork on Nov 20, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He's a chicago native

and got his start at Second City. So he sort of has a reason for being a dumb Cubs fan.

by birdo rojo on Nov 20, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

no reason is ever really good enough

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Nov 20, 2008 5:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

At least Obama is a Sox fan.

I don’t think I could handle a president who was a cub fan. You know every time something either went wrong for him he’s start throwing garbage all over the Oval Office. Then when something went right, he’d start throwing garbage all over the Oval Office.

Then, every time the stock market started the day 100 points up he’d start cheering and celebrating only to see it in the tank by noon causing him to just sit down and look stupid.

Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.

And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!

by Tackle Box on Nov 20, 2008 8:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Plus Bartman would be in Gitmo.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Nov 21, 2008 12:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He'd be drunk everyday by 1:30 at least

and the Oval Office would start to smell like pee.

by mattybobo on Nov 21, 2008 10:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The White House would install piss troughs in the bathroom.

and every toilet would have about 3 rolls of toilet paper in them with the water up to the rim.

Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.

And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!

by Tackle Box on Nov 21, 2008 4:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Anathema!

No Miller or Coors allowed. Just Bud. I used to tease my relatives that Miller was owned by a S.A. brewery, but I guess the same thing will be finalized soon for Bud.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Nov 20, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the reference is to our new LOOGY

Trever Miller. Link to PD story:http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/AF6FC84C2BCC1FDF862575070015C30A?OpenDocument

Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2

by gocards62 on Nov 20, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry abou the link

 >Former Rays Lefty expected to sign

Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2

by gocards62 on Nov 20, 2008 1:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks

hence the possible irony (after all my years of education I still don’t have a totally confident grasp of irony and believe it to be a very overused term).

by mattybobo on Nov 20, 2008 1:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Use the preview first, it has saved me lots of times

Link

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Nov 20, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

indeed

"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa

by adiueordie on Nov 20, 2008 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

I got that. I just didn’t like the reminder of Miller brewing. Let’s make it “it’s Trever Time” instead. I know it doesn’t have the same ring but there is alliteration at least.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Nov 20, 2008 6:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

But I think if another team were to sign him we’d get a 48th round pick in the Senior’s Beer League Softball.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 20, 2008 12:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I read in Tim Kurkjans book...

that Mulder does everything above his waste left handed such as frisbee, baseball, football, etc… However, he does everything below his waste right handed such as Golf, bowling, and including softball pitching! He actually pitches in Church Charity games and such and does it right handed… Isn’t that wierd?

SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426

by FredbirdisaDork on Nov 20, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea what that means

but since it made me laugh out loud, you get a rec.

Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.

And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!

by Tackle Box on Nov 20, 2008 8:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm from holland!

Ishn’t that Vierd?

SlamalamaJackADongWick cares very little about your draft pick standing-by gdm426

by FredbirdisaDork on Nov 21, 2008 10:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm ambidextrous.

I throw right-handed. I played guitar left-handed. And when I first learned to golf, I golfed left handed. They switched me so it would be cheaper, and easier, to find me clubs.

My husband is also ambidextrous. Neither of us are from Holland or have an Dutch heritage.

by spants on Nov 20, 2008 8:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You can live underwater?

Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.

And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!

by Tackle Box on Nov 20, 2008 8:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

She can speak Spanish.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Nov 21, 2008 12:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh!

I always get that stuff mixed up.

Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.

And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!

by Tackle Box on Nov 21, 2008 7:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If they went into the hearing

and Mulder submitted $4 M as his offer and the Cardinals submitted -$8 M, do you think the two sides could agree that he would play for the Cardinals in 2009 and pay them back roughly $3 M, plus escalators for every start/bullpen session he misses?

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 20, 2008 7:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

good stuff chuckb

Defense is not as “sexy” as offense and gets overlooked. Of course not here at VEB.
I am not sold on the BABIP concept entirely, probably due in part to my ignorance. I understand the formula and all, but am not sure how to control for luck vs. defense. But it’s better than nothing.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Nov 20, 2008 1:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not many people know how to control for luck vs. defense

The measures for defense have a lot of luck in them and the measures for luck have a lot of defense in them IMO.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 20, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Renteria is a type A

I found the list of the Elias Free Agents. Don’t know why it took me this long to find out that Renteria is a type A, he is no longer on my list of targets until he is declined arbitration from Detroit.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-11-05-elias-player-rankings_N.htm

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Nov 20, 2008 2:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It all made sense when I saw the list

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Nov 20, 2008 2:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Tigers won't offer him arbitration.

He’s made comments about accepting a one year deal with Detroit and they can’t take the risk to have him accept. They’re trying to get as far away from him as possible and start anew at shortstop. Having him accept for whatever it’d be (which would be pretty high) would just screw up their offseason plans.

Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.

And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!

by Tackle Box on Nov 20, 2008 8:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Give credit to the defense

at least to most of it. Using the world renowned POOZBIZ metric that is sweeping the industry, it sure looks as if the Cardinals were a far superior defensive team in 2008. According to POOZBIZ [RZR’s (Plays+OOZ / BIZ)] the Cardinals were much better in the OF and at SS, were a little bit better at 1B, regressed slightly at 2B, and really missed Scott Rolen’s glove at 3B.

I looked at the POOZBIZ for each position and took last year’s POOZBIZ times this year’s BIZ to figure out how the 2007 team would have done on the 2008 team’s chances. Results below for 2008:

LF: +28 (Chris Duncan was really bad in 2007)
CF: +42 (Skip and Ank were much better in 2008)
RF: +28 (It didn’t just seem like Encarnacion didn’t cover much ground)
1B: +6 (Yes, Albert was actually even better in 2008)
2B: -2 (Nobody was any good except AK)
3B: -30 (I’m glad we made the trade, but it did have its downside)
SS: +51 (iz2 was great and Miles was much better, Ryan is no slouch)

That adds up to a whopping 124 plays that the 2008 defense made which would have been hits in 2007. Of course, this is just for fun as the chances were not identical from year to year, there may well have been some inconsistency in the zone assignments, etc. although I think a lot of what it tells us would match up to what our eyes saw in 2008. Somebody smarter than me can make a go of converting that to runs.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 20, 2008 4:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Glaus had a higher range factor than Rolen this season btw

2B wouldn’t have went downward if we woulda just stuck with Kennedy at second. I think next year the OF will be even better, especially if rasmatazz gets to play

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 20, 2008 4:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW

Rolen’s POOZBIZ was actually higher this year (.963) than in 2007 (.904). I don’t think range factor really tells you much, I am sort of surprised it still gets reported since James is now a +/- guy.

I think you are right about the OF next year, but it all depends on who stays. If Skip gets dealt then LF will probably suffer. Barton and Mather were pretty similar in 2008, but I am not sure we have enough data to make a judgment. I am hopeful than Raz will be a better defender than Ank, but who knows? I sure hope Ludwick is still patrolling RF.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 20, 2008 5:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well

if Ank moves to left, I seriously doubt it will be worse than Skip. I think Barton and Mather are about as good as Skip at defense, but that’s just an opinion

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 20, 2008 5:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i'd

rather have ankiel’s arm in right field. put ludwick in left.

"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa

by adiueordie on Nov 20, 2008 6:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Luddy had more outfield assists than Ank

Luddy had 12, Schu had 10, Ank only had 4.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 21, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

because no one would run on Ank

they tested Luddy more…same thing with Pat Burrell he is always in the top of the league in OF assists not because he has a good arm but because everyone tries to run on him…

"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby

by nomar34 on Nov 21, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's true

But LF is where a lot of teams hide a big bat. You know, like the Cardinals used to do with Chris Duncan, the Reds used to do with Adam Dunn, and the Phillies did while winning a World Series with Pat Burrell. Skip is above average defensively, but I don’t think that moving Ludwick or Ankiel (or Mather) is going to really hurt the ballclub defensively, but all three of those guys could help the team offensively unless we’re counting on Skippy having another career year.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 20, 2008 9:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree

I was only commenting on the comment above about how bad Skip’s defense was in LF.

by chuckb on Nov 20, 2008 10:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

POOZBIZ

thinks so too. I still have some issues with PMR’s rankings though. David says Carlos Lee and Adam Dunn were both better defensively than Holliday. I have a really hard time wiht that one. You can find those kind of apparent oddities at pretty much every position.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 20, 2008 9:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

As far as third base goes...

I’d rather have Glaus’ glove and bat for 150 games than Rolen’s for 120 any day. Scotty wasn’t nearly as good this year as he’s been in the past either, and he still missed a ton of games.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 20, 2008 5:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Me too

It is sad what Rolen has become as he looked like a guy who had a pretty good shot at the HOF before he got hurt.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 20, 2008 5:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Arrrrrgh

Everytime I think of He Seop Choi it gets my blood boiling. Dude, you didn’t need to stand on first base.
Things happen, totalloser. Give the guy a break. (talking to myself)

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Nov 20, 2008 6:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I just realized what your screen name said.

you get a rec since it took me so long.

Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.

And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!

by Tackle Box on Nov 20, 2008 8:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And for 2009

we can put Skip’s +42 at 2b! Problem solved.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Nov 20, 2008 5:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have one question after reading this

Why in the hell did we let Kelvin Jimenez pitch over 40 innings in 07?

by vivaelpujols on Nov 20, 2008 5:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

that is a typo

he only pitched 4 innings. It only seemed like 40

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Nov 20, 2008 5:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

40 was the number of runs

KJ allowed

Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2

by gocards62 on Nov 20, 2008 7:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Miller not a done deal yet

According to Goold. Details still seem kinda fuzzy. Maybe a failed physical?

by Merry CRasmus on Nov 20, 2008 6:39 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

ditto

on stlcardinals.com [link]

no details on what the hold up is though. just mo saying he doesn’t anticipate the deal being done tonight.

"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa

by adiueordie on Nov 20, 2008 6:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently it is a two year deal as well

Please Lord, let this fall through. I’d rather Mark Worrell just throw backwards than pay another ‘salty vet’ to be our LOOGY.

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 20, 2008 7:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be fine with a one year + club option

but 2 years seems kinda much. Although, I’m sure he could get a 2 year deal elsewhere. Affeldt signed a 2 year deal as well, and I’m sure most of these guys will get 2 years.

Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.

And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!

by Tackle Box on Nov 20, 2008 9:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who cares if it's two years

Miller will only be getting 2 mil a year max, so it doesn’t really matter if we give him another year. It’s not like it will cripple our flexibility

by vivaelpujols on Nov 21, 2008 1:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

very true.

Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.

And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!

by Tackle Box on Nov 21, 2008 7:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Because if he is terrible

$2 M means he plays. That’s the way it has always been. If they are being paid, Tony finds a way to use them even when he shouldn’t.

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 21, 2008 10:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know.........

Adam Kenneday made $3,500,000 & Larussa found a way not to play him……….

$2,000,000 is not nearly enough money this day and age in baseball to guarantee anything.

by ICbirdfan on Nov 21, 2008 10:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Adam Kennedy

Was our starting right fielder down the stretch!

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Nov 21, 2008 11:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Adam Kennedy got 350 PA in 2008

and 280 in 2007 (a season that his playing was reduced, we found out, because his knee was torn up).

Adam Kennedy has gotten plenty of playing time for a guy that probably should have been given his outright release if he was on a 1 year deal.

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 21, 2008 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i realize you enjoy being cynical

but what would you suggest as a alternative? Give flores another chance? Brad Furnish? Tyler Norrick?

I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.

by _pistol_ on Nov 21, 2008 11:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

no main post yet to drive the discussion

Isn’t it Az’s normal day to post? He usually puts his posts up early because robots don’t need much sleep…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 21, 2008 12:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not a main page poster anymore.

Retired to FR only (which should be picking up soon again).

by azruavatar on Nov 21, 2008 1:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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