Albert Pujols fans lower their pitchforks and reflect
by DanUpBaby on Nov 18, 2008 10:00 AM EST
Email
PrintI've never been happier to overreact about something, personally. I was going to say something about how this restores my faith in the MVP—in sportswriters—but like everyone else I spent much of the day collecting and repurposing the steam that poured from my ears after Milwaukee beat writer Tom Haudricourt released his ballot. Truly awe-inspiring, that one, though I can't blame him after Carlos Delgado put all the talk radio hosts in Queens on his back and carried the snakebitten Mets into the World Series.
The amazing thing, the thing, I think, that made me especially crazy about this season's MVP vote, is that the dumb-sportswriter cliches are no longer even internally consistent. Albert, an intense, focused leadership guy who Does Everything to Win and always plays 100%, even when injured, who just missed the batting title and never struck out, who played incredible defense and carried a team for most of the season, almost lost to a one-dimensional slugger who struck out 199 times and hit .251. Cats and dogs living together.
But it didn't happen, and I can get on with my life, until, say, Brett Wallace loses an MVP circa 2013 because he's a defensive zero who couldn't turn it on until his hot September.
Anybody have a particularly forceful AL MVP choice? The main thing I'm watching is just how overlooked A-Rod will be, despite having another excellent season. He and El Hombre should consider starting a support group. Musial can lay down a wistful harmonica track and all of the overlooked superstars can sing the how-is-he-underrated? blues. They should have it on TV, so that ESPN can pre-empt it for Texas Hold 'Em.
Anyway, lately there've been a lot of defensive statistics cited—which makes sense, since it doesn't take a really deep look at the middle infield's offensive numbers to understand what went on there in 2008. I've always had trouble trying to keep them straight in my head and my bookmarks folder, so I figured that in lieu of a Tuesday notes column I'd try to aggregate them here, roster-matrix style.
Unfortunately, the SBN WYSIWYG editor—WYSIWYG editors will eventually be the one little, insignificant thing that pushes me over the edge—has mangled my table beyond recognition, and I had to go back to the drawing board before the deadline. Watch this space—and if you can think of anything beyond Chris Dial's Zone Rating-derived runs, the Fielding Bible numbers, and the PMR runs to aggregate here, leave them in the comments.
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I am putting in my plug for Dustin Pedroia for AL MVP
Tremendous player both offensively and defensively and he might be the shortest MVP ever.
When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?
by RosevilleRedbird on Nov 18, 2008 10:04 AM EST reply actions
Not even close.
Bobby Shantz won the AL MVP in 1952, standing a mere 5’6"…
… and he was a pitcher. One whose name, ever since 16 September 1963, I have cursed in perpetuity, but that’s a different story.
Times have changed.
by StanTheManFan on Nov 18, 2008 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
Here here
Salon has a decent article about the whole “what does valuable mean” debacle. My favorite quote is that Tom Haudricourt’s explanation for his logic is like “someone explaining why there’s a giant meatball watching over us all and keeping us safe”
by cloistermaximus on Nov 18, 2008 10:07 AM EST reply actions
Thanks for that link.
Great article. My fav quote: (on the subject of the different definitions of “valuable” that BBWAA members use to make their picks)
I’d tell you what they were but I don’t understand them and they change from voter to voter and year to year. The methodology seems to be: Figure out who you like as MVP, then fashion the current year’s definition of “valuable” to fit.
That pretty much sums it up.
by cardsgirl95 on Nov 18, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
he was so good that the voters couldn't figure out a way to deny him
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
The thing I can't get over ...
… in this value debate is would any human being in their right mind rather have Ryan Howard playing first base on their team over Albert Pujols? It’s really an absurd question.
My famdamily
Is from Philly, they all went nuts go Phills!. Me? I went my own way in a long time ago. Anyway all of them were rooting for Howard in the MVP. I guess that is what a good Homer would do. I asked one of them, “So, if I offered Albert for Howard straight up you would turn me down??!!” He said, “no!” “Ok, then how can you pick Howard over Pujols for MVP?”
Either way I won the bet and next time we play golf he pays.
At least your family member was honest
… that favoring Howard over Pujols is a simply a thing of team loyalty. I can respect that. It’s the insane writers based places other than Philly that voted for Howard that confound me.
As a Cardinal fan
I might make that trade considering Howard is hitting .732 with 319 homers and 1123 rbi in like 10 career games at Busch
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Nov 18, 2008 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
It's not the biased Phillies fans that we're worried about
It’s the guy in Milwaukee who ranks Howard, Delgado, AND Fielder higher than Pujols.
And he has an actual, real vote that counts and stuff.
Sigh.
I normally consider Phildelphia
To have have the worst fans in the nation.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 18, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Where do I begin
1. Threw Snowballs at Santa Claus and booed him
2. Threw batteries at JD Drew
3. Cheered when Michael Irvin was lying on the field at Veterans Stadium and sustained a career ending neck injury during a Dallas/Eagles game
4. During WS a 9 Year Old kid that was a Rays fan got a beer poured on him
Stay Classy Philadelphia
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 18, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
OK
I know about all those things, it’s just that “worst” is such a subjective term. I mean, some people would look at those things and say “well, they aren’t well behaved, but they’re passionate about their team.” I’m not defending any of those actions, just saying that “worst” is pretty open ended. And your response was to a person talking about how his family roots for the Phillies and, impliedly, their baseball knowledge – not what some drunk morons have done.
I’m sure many would call, say, Marlins fans, the worst, because they don’t show up at the game (or maybe they’re the worst because there are so few of them.) How about those “fans” who can’t sell out playoff games (Braves, Rays, etc.) What about un-informed “event” fans who just show up at games because it’s supposedly the “in” thing to do (portions of new Busch Stadium anyone?)
All I’m saying is that “worst” is the same as “best” in describing fans. There are 100 ways to look at it, and no one way is objectively better than another.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Nov 18, 2008 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
ridiculous
you sound like my buddy from Philly justifying some incident there in the name of “passion for the team”.
Ridiculous?
Apparently your buddy is one of “some people” I refer to.
Also apparently, you overlooked “I’m not defending any of those actions.”
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Nov 18, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
I have a way of measuring if a fan is good or not...
If a fan participates in “the wave” he/she is a bad fan.
End of story.
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
I agree but lots of Cards fans seem to love it
Seems like the wave always gets started around the 7th or 8th in Busch, and I usually raise a little fuss about it with whoever has the misfortune of sitting next to me – whether friend or stranger.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 18, 2008 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Me too.
Maybe someday we will sit next to each other and can complain to one another… :P
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
I'll join in on that complaint
Not a fan of the wave.
I think we should apply the WPA method to the wave
A wave is always a negative action, but I think the degree that it affects the cities fanhood should correlate to how close the game is when they execute it.
For example, my biggest gripe is that I may be trying to watch Chris Perez work himself out of a bases loaded jam with a one run lead in the 8th and then I’ll see, and hear, some yahoo in the left field bleachers urging his drunken neighbors with screams of “ONE, TWO, THREE, WOOOOOOOO!!!!”. If we were losing (or winning) 15-0 and Miles was pitching I would not care near as much. Even if it they could just get it out of the way in the 1st or 2nd inning, I could probably live with this.
So what I propose is that we use the WPA method as a form of penalty that the entire fanbase is forced to take on, in hopes that it might shame some of us into putting a stop to it altogether – especially in exciting, high leverage game conditions.
So in the first example, Perez is trying to gut his way through the 8th and hold on to victory. A single probably is roughly equivalent to a -.500. This situation calls for aggressive actions. Screaming at your neighbors to sit down and shut up is appropriate here. Almost anything short of physical force is in play here, actually. Failure to contain this situation puts you in danger of earning the “Worst fans in baseball title” which would, no doubt, send shivers of guilt and shame to our largely self congratulatory fanbase.
Now the second example, Miles is pitching mopup duty for laughs and giggles. In this case the negative value is something like -.00000001. In this case, we can be civil, agreeable neighbors and allow whatever happens to happen. This is not a difference maker. The fact that people are still there cancels out any negative statistical impact of doing the wave.
As you can see, I have put some amount of thought into this. I could not agree with my friends albrtfn and cardsgirl95 on this more. Perhaps too much thought, I don’t know. I don’t think so though.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 18, 2008 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
I like your analysis
Makes perfect sense. Those high leverage situations are exactly the ones I was talking about. This is probably an indicator that a lot of the people in the stands aren’t a true representation of the fandom as a whole. For instance, on any given night there are probably thousands of people at Busch that can’t tell you what inning it is (like that High Life commercial where the dude takes all the beer out of the suite), but there are legions of fans at home, like the ones on the game threads at VEB, that are analyzing every pitch with only the eyes that a wannabe-GM/Manager can analyze.
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
I went to a game in 07 where....
in like the 3rd or 4th inning these two late teens early 20s girls come in with two late 20s guys and sit right behind us in an empty stadium…their lateness is further exemplified by the fact that it is a rain delayed KIP FREAKING WELLS start, they proceed to talk about drinking and sex till about the 8th inning before they leave to go bar hopping.
Then the last game I went to in 08 had a small section of underage girls that spent the entire game talking about how noone was checking IDs for beer and how they couldn’t wait to turn 21 next year and other such things, while completely drunk and holding brand new large beers.
I agree lots of fans in the stands seem to think it is just a “cool” thing to do instead of going for the game.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
I like it
I will do the wave and I like it. But only when the situation isn’t one of importance, if it is top 8th basesloaded up by 2 you better bet I want to just sit and watch the game and the wave would suck in that instance, but bottom 8th up by 10 I will even help start one.
It also seems the Busch stadium cheer leaders start the wave more often then the fans do. I even saw the beer vender start one last time I went.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
The wave
appearances at Busch Stadium – probably 81 times in 2008
appearances at Wrigley Field – 0 times in 2008
You might not want to make the wave your measuring stick of “good fandom!”
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Nov 18, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
they don't do the wave
Because they’re afraid that old thing will cave in with too much movement
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
I'd rather use fan reaction to fly balls
Wrigley practically goes nuts every time the ball is hit in the air.
Just because it went up doesn’t mean it’s a homer, guys.
In Wrigley it might...
You never know where the crazy wind will take it there. Plus it is a few feet shorter in the power alleys than it is down the line. Still, I understand what you are saying.
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
I disagree with "the wave" being an end of story debate
I think that doing the wave with your pitcher in the field (as it is about the only thing a fan can do to distract a pitcher) is flat out WRONG.
I was at
The Battery Game. That was fugly! I was there when Scottie had his first game in the Vet after the trade. Philly fans are brutal. I happen to be an Eagles fan so I wear my Cards jersey, but an Eagles hat. It keeps me from getting beat up. Phillie fans are so dedicated to booing. Scottie stepped out of the dug out and was booed. ( I was at the Vet when their beloved Schmidt was booed.) I have four brothers and two sisters, and all 6 are dedicated and informed. Very knowledgeable, but all are jerks. I say that with love of course. But they are rude, obnoxious, and impossible to be around during a game! The 4th of July family reunion was put on hold while all my brothers, sisters and their kids had to watch the game vs. the Mets. Nothing would have pleased me more than if a bomb went off. The swearing and yelling oh my! You would have thought it was the World Series. I am glad I was not invited over to any other their homes to watch a game this fall. Now that Christmas is coming I am sure they are all buying Phillie gear. I hope they don’t cop the Red Sox fan attitude. I think I would have to avoid reunions! I kid. But lets face it Philly, sports fans are the toughest on their own players than any other, and the opposition be ware!
+1
I used to live in West Philly and I have to agree. You forgot to mention the whole Eric Lindross saga when they ran him out of town for throwing up after multiple concussions. The fans didn’t think he was tough enough. They weren’t very nice to Larry Brown, Larry Bowa, and Terry Francona either. NY and Boston may be tough places put I think Philly is on a totally different level. It was even worse before the Vet was exploded. We had the worst fans plus the worst stadium. They let us walk the field during picture day, and the turf just felt like concrete with a bit of padding over it.
Ok. I do love a good cheese steak, though. Definitely Jeno’s and not Pat’s. And Center City is really cool. And Wawas are the coolest covenience stores, ever.
I have to make an exception for the Wolfpack. There were a bunch of folks who wore werewolf masks when Randy Wolf was pitching with the Phillies. They were cool. They would do synchronized werewolf routines.
Not that I am biased… But Cards fans rule.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
I was born
in Brynn Mawr Hospital and grew up in Narberth. When I was a kid the Philles had guys like Jim Bunning, Chris Short, Richie Allen, Johnny Calison, and Cookie Rojas. I was so pumped for the Phills and my family in 1980. I was glad my grandfather lived long enough to see it, but this year I was secretly rooting against the Phills cause I was so sick of my siblings! LOL! I will have to suck it up for the Christmas reunion. I will have to dare them to get a tatoos. I did after 2006. On my left arm. A red StL and WSC ’06 written under it. Living in upstate NY near Syracuse(yes it is snowing!) it is easier to get to PIttsburgh so lately we have been going there for games, but I should get down to the new “Vet” next year.
OT to nybirdfan
Did you see the new SBN blog for Syracuse University? http://www.nunesmagician.com/
FYI from a fellow CNY Cards fan.
Also, congrats to Albert. Just awesome.
I like the Bill Simmons Rule
Which he eloquently posted again during the NBA MVP debate last year:
If you wouldn’t take player A over player B in a pickup game, then there’s no way that you could vote for player A as a more valuable player than player B.
The other thing he points out, relating to Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, and Chris Paul, is that you may have to factor in what taking one guy over the other would do to the guy who got snubbed. In this scenario, I’d be really afraid to take anyone over Pujols, because he would perceive it as a slight and then put up a .500/.800/.970 line against my team every time I saw him.
Bottom line, there isn’t a player in either league that you would take over Pujols when picking teams in a sandlot game — isn’t that the absolute defining characteristic of being valuable?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
good rule of thumb
As long as a player is able to contribute most of the season. I.e. not injuried for a month and a half, or traded to the team from another league at the trade deadline.
That's a good point...
Although, if you think about it, when does a truly “valuable” player get traded other than for age or salary concerns? Michael Jordan was probably the most valuable player to any franchise in professional sports history, on and off the court. You never would have seen him traded for any other player in the NBA short of him being too old to play or demanding more money than the team could possibly afford to pay him (which, in his case, would have been something around $50M annually). I think LeBron may reach that point if he is ever able to get out of Cleveland and play in a big market. The only reason Kobe is more popular overseas and overall, and this is coming from a Lakers fan, is that he plays in Los Angeles.
The Red Sox traded Manny because of age and money, the Lakers traded Shaq because of age and money (and the fact that they knew that they needed Kobe to stay to be competitive the rest of the decade). Same with guys like Mark McGwire, Dale Murphy, and most of the other really valuable players in the history of pro sports.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Triple Crown Ranking
At the end of yesterdays post I posted my quick and dirty look at traditional triple crown stats. Here it is again for those that missed it:
So I came up with a very arbitrary and simplistic "Triple Crown Ranking" basically assigning points based on where you fall in each of the triple crown stats. 10 for first and 1 for tenth kind of thing. I did the calculations 2 ways, first time I gave negatives if you were below 10th in any ranking (1 point negative for each spot below) then I did it giving 0 points for anything below 10. I analyzed Pujols, Howard, Jones, Utley and for good measure Ludwick. I have the spreadsheet still if anyone wants others added. (I was asked in the comments to add Berkman and Ramierez so I did that, understand though that Manny is only being rated on his NL stats and since he didn’t qualify for the NL batting race I just gave him a 1st place ranking there)
The First ranking gave me:
Pujols 7.67
Ludwick 2.67
Berkman 1.33
Utley -2.33
Howard -9.67
Jones -15.67
Manny -33.67
The second ranking gave me:
Pujols 7.67
Howard 6.67
Ludwick 4.00
Jones 3.33
Manny 3.33
Berkman 2.67
Utley 0.67
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
see thats the problem
your didn’t give howard his due. He needs another 9 points for getting second in strikeouts
You mean SO's?
Statistically Outstandings?
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
Cool idea but
This is a cool idea but it is flawed since it doesn’t take into account how far ahead somebody is in a specific category and that really is relevant
by nolesblogger on Nov 18, 2008 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, you should probably use something else
something that aggregates batting average.. no wait, on base percentage and slugging percentage. Maybe add them together or something. We could call it OPS (On-base Plus Slugging) for short. It would see that would be a good way to rank.
[/tongue in cheek]
"I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order. Like they should be."
I want to give the AL MVP to Josh Hamilton
but we all know that because of being only 41 inches tall, David Eckstein Dustin Pedroia will win.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 18, 2008 10:50 AM EST reply actions
Not to mention the fact he plays for the Red Sox
Therefore, he’s practically a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame already, according to Fox Sports and ESPN.
"Better teach this kid some control before he kills somebody" - Lou Brown (Major League)
by Futility Infielder on Nov 18, 2008 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
i'm of the opinion that..
similar logic was used by the NL MVP voters…
“I want to give the NL MVP to Ryan Howard, but we all know that because of the torn ligaments in his elbow, Alber Pujols will win.”
I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.
Why Hamilton?
You can’t make the case that he had the best season, most defensive metrics put him near the lower quartile defensively, and his team wasn’t near contention in the last two months and finished with a losing record, despite having two teammates finish in the top 10 in the league in OPS (Kinsler and Bradley). Bradley led the AL in OPS so how can Hamilton be more valuable?
I don’t vote for Pedroia either, mainly because I think that Youkilis is probably the best player on that team right now. Eliminating those three guys, I’d have to cast my first place vote to Carlos Quentin, who was sorely missed down the stretch by the White Sox, who probably wouldn’t have been in a playoff situation had he not gotten hurt. He also tried to play through the injury to help his team but just couldn’t produce at a high level.
My Ballot:
- Carlos Quentin
- Alex Rodriguez
- Kevin Youkilis
- Dustin Pedroia
- Miguel Cabrera
- Grady Sizemore
- Justin Morneau
- Mariano Rivera
- Francisco Rodriguez
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
whoops...it cut off my last one accidentally
10. Joakim Soria
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Why does everyone hate Joe Mauer?
i can handle Mauer not winning because there are a couple good choice but there is NO way he is any less than 5th on the ballot and has to be ahead of Morneau, right?
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
Mauer out of the top ten is unconscienable.
And I thought this was a saber site. Why so much love for K-rod? Wasn’t he worse than scott downs?
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
For those who have trapsed through yesterday's monster thread
Dave Cameron was nominated for a $10,000 scholarship based on the USSM post he wrote about Kind Felix’s pitch selection. It’s something of a popularity contest and he was in the lead for a good while but as of this weekend has fallen into second place. It literally takes 3 mouse clicks (10 seconds?) to vote for someone who is consistently offering insights about the Mariners and baseball in general at Fangraphs.
I’d encourage anyone who hasn’t yet to take the time to vote for Dave.
King Felix the Kind-Hearted.
or just Kind Felix for short….
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
that's what I was thinking
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Hear hear
I voted for Cameron. I think it’s pretty stupid to leave something like a scholarship up for internet-voting, but oh well. The current leader is a political blogger. Baseball over politics!
I chuckled reading this
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/11/9/657359/remember-vote-for-dave-cam#9961708
I had a similar experience this summer where I was playing volleyball with someone and we were going back and forth discussing the Cardinals and prospects. It started to turn into one of those semi-competitive conversations that all guys have where you want to prove you know as much/more than the other guy. Anyway, he then asked if I read VEB or FR. He was a little surprised when I told him my moniker. It’s kinda a weird feeling having your cloak of anonymity penetrated like that by random circumstances. Not that I have anything to hide. . .
I didn't know robots played volleyball.
by cardsgirl95 on Nov 18, 2008 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Good to know.
You know, just in case I am ever in a volleyball death match, I’ll know to pick a robot for my side.
You should have said something like
“Yeah, I’ve read both from time to time, but ultimately gave it up because I can’t stand that dipshit azruavatar who thinks he’s a robot or something…….what’ do you think of him?”
But then again, you might have gotten an answer you really didn’t want to hear. Kinda like how you think you’d want to be able to hear people’s thoughts until you realize what people actually think about. Probably just best to come out with the identity. Although it is a little like Superman revealing his identity or something.
But, ultimately, I bet it changes the way he reads your stuff. I met a guy who I listen to on Chicago Sports radio all the time (he married my ex-girlfriend) and now every time I hear him, i don’t find him nearly as funny. Especially since he left her and it was under some pretty shady circumstances. Sometimes it’s not good to have inside info on people you enjoy to read or listen to or watch.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
“But, ultimately, I bet it changes the way he reads your stuff.”
Probably. I know it would for me. For example, I refuse to look up the pictures of my morning radio show hosts because I have mental images built up that I don’t want to have to reconcile with reality. I have before and it was surprisingly difficult to reconcile their pictures and profile with my own personal bio of them.
I have found the phrase
“has a face for radio” really does apply in so many cases.
A lot of those guys are extremely odd looking.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
face for the radio
By the way, “face for the radio” is a classic example of regression to the mean—if you select heavily on one set of attributes (voice, composure, insight) that are essentially uncorrelated with other attributes (appearance), you’ll find that radio people will be average in appearance, on average.
You can tell a story of “regression past the mean” if you believe that TV people are selected on voice and appearance together; that leaves “great voice but less attractive” people left to populate radio.
97.1 FM
For the month or so Listend to 97.1 I always thought that Allman was a large man since he has such a deep voice, seeing his picture completely shocked me. Now that I listen to 92.3 the only thing that would have shocked me is if Cornbread was skinny, but since I have seen him on KSDK from time to time I know he is large and in charge.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
I would be thrilled if I knew anyone
In real life that read VEB or FR. Everyone in Saint Louis thinks they know everything about baseball. It’s when you get all excited talking about Nico and Reifer that seems to throw them for a loop. They thing the Penn league is Prison Ball.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 18, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
You know how much ballot stuffing I would do
If I had a chance for to get a $10,000 scholarship.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 18, 2008 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Haudricourt was obviously in the minority when Howard won the award over Pujols a few years back,
Unless he’s a raging hypocrite, of course.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
Re: AL MVP
I’m not gonna put together a ballot, but I’m really hoping Sizemore and Mauer get some love. A-rod should get recognition but will probably be overlooked. If Pedroia wins it, I wonder how that will make Chase Utley feel?
he'd probably feel that the AL doesn't have a pujols
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
But if the NL didn't have a Pujols
Howard would have won. And Utley still would not have received the votes he deserved.
yeah
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Margin Should Have Been Wider
Pujols should have gotten more than 18 first place votes. Howard had no business getting as many as 12 first place votes. Brad Lidge should not have gotten a single first place vote.
Pujols should have gotten at least 24 first place votes and run away with the award. The Cardinals did finish 86-76. It’s not as if St. Louis was horrible this past season. The Dodgers’ regular season record was only 84-78.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
I would choose
1) Mauer
2) Pedroia
3) A-rod
4) Youk
5) Quentin
6) Cliff Lee
7) Mo Rivera
8) Paplebon
9) Hamilton
10) Giambi (don’t ask why)
it's that ridiculous moustache
isn’t it?
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you
a vote for Mauer is a vote for freedom…
although i would probably have him 2nd…i must be communist or something
1. Sizemore
2. Mauer
3. ARod
4. Pedroia
5. Youk
6. Hamilton
7. Quentin
8. Cabrera
9. Lee
10.Longoria
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
Oh yeah
I completely forgot about Sizemore. Although I think that Cliff Lee was more valubale that Sizemore.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 18, 2008 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
you think Lee was more valuable
in 31 games than Sizemore was in 157?
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
Was Sizemore more vaulable in
745 PAs vs 670 for Lee would be a more fair comparison IMO. But in the end I think I would trade 2008 Sizemore for 2008 Lee any day. Having a durable Ace is way too underestimated especially by Cards fans that haven’t had one in quite some time.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
that would be a better
but doesn’t take into account outstanding defense played by Sizemore either…i would take him over Lee any day but that is just my opinion…
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
Lee was 22 and 3
On a bad team with great underlying numbers also. Sizemore was very valuable to the team, but without Cliff Lee the team would have lost nearly 100 games.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 20, 2008 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
so you are assuming they would have lost all
22 games he won for them and without Sizemore they would have been the same team? Lee is a flyball pitcher Sizemore is a GG CF…without Sizemore would Lee have as good a season? Without Lee would it affect Sizemore’s season one bit?
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
Not to mention
Cleveland wasn’t that bad of a team. 81-81 is at least average, and their Pythagorean record was 85-77, which suggests they played even better than their already average record. Also, while Lee’s past years show he was a big time flyball guy, his GB% was 45.9 this year- +10% better than any other year of his career- and certainly not cause for calling him a flyball pitcher in 2008.
One other thing, I think you are overvaluing Sizemore’s defense a little bit. He plays one of the toughest positions yeah, but I don’t think he is as good as you’re suggesting. He isn’t in the Top 10 in +/- for a centerfielder, well behind guys like Beltran, Carlos Gomez from the Twins, and Chris B. Young. Sizemore is definitely a good defensive players, I just don’t think he is the Savior in Centerfielder you were making him out to be.
Btw, I love Grazy, and would definitely vote him ahead of Lee for MVP. Cheers.
by lunchboxbomb on Nov 20, 2008 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
he is ranked 10th on +/-
if you look him up individually he is ranked 10th but he is not on the leader board which is odd…i am not sure what the difference is in the leader board and individual ranking…i dont think i called him a savior on defense but i did say he was outstanding which may have been a little strong but being better than 2/3 of the CF in baseball is pretty darn good…my main point is that Lee, or any pitcher really, has to depend way too much on other players to be considered the MVP unless something is just freaky, but Lee struck out 170 of the 891 players he faced. so on 682 batters (that is subtracted out 34 BB and 5 HB) he depended on his defense to help him win those 22 games.
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
Ok
He was still 19 games over .500. If you take Cliff Lee’s starts and give them to a league average pitcher or a young guy, chances are that they would hover around the .500 mark as a pitcher. So therefor the difference in wins would be about 15-20 wins less.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2008 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
it's because
he had to carry the Yankees through the season with that choker A-Rod undermining him every mustachioed step of the way, right?
He was clutch
That sounds kind of stupid, but I can remember a lot of big hits that Giambi had this year. He really can’t hit for any kind of average any more, he is fat and slow, but he still walks a ton and hits homers. He was a staple in a Yankees lineup filled with underperforming stars, and if they had any pitching that they still might have made the playoffs.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 18, 2008 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
How are people leaving Mauer out of this
He, as a catcher, outhit Pedroia by 13 runs according to B-Refs linear weights BattingRuns. Give Pedroia all the defense in the world at 2nd and it’s not going to make up 13 runs on a good defensive catcher.
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
Defensive Matrix
DanUp, when you post that are you going to do some sort of explanation/correlation? I really like Pinto’s probability-based approach, but I just can’t get my arms around his results.
I noticed yesterday when looking at his LF numbers that he shows Carlos Lee, Adam Dunn, and Carlos Quention to be superior to Matt Holliday and Manny Ramirez to be essentially Holliday’s equal.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
I'm going to try to
I can usually figure out the methodologies all right but some of the individual cases still baffle me.
Looking at PMR Catcher rankings
and Yadi was the 44th best catcher in MLB this year. I know he didn’t have his best year, but 44th?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Those PMR rankings blow
It seems like I disagree with almost all of them
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 18, 2008 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
If by blow you mean
are in the top tier of defensive statistics, then yes they blow.
As for Yadi, PMR only measures range. Things like blocking pitches, picking runners off, throwing runners out, etc. are not measured in that stat.
They had Glaus as one of the worst 3B in Baseball
Do you think Glaus is one of the worst fielding 3B in baseball?
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 18, 2008 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Glaus started off the year well
but tapered off in RZR as well. I could buy that Glaus wasn’t nearly as good as he appeared. The expectations were set awfully low as well entering the season with stories of how bad Glaus would be compared to Rolen
I just don't see how PMR rating him so low
Glaus was 1st in MLB in Fielding %, 4th in Range Factor, and 8th in Zone Rating does not equate to the 4th worst 3Ber in MLB by PMR to me.
Stat Whore
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 18, 2008 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
He could be an outlier in PMR
But the logic of “anecdotal cases 1-10 don’t make sense to me” is not a good reason to disqualify the statistic for hundreds of players. It tracks well as a predictive stat — there’s value there but, like all defensive stats, you have to be a discerning consumer.
but Glaus had a higher range factor than rolen
does that mean range factor is a bogus stat?
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 19, 2008 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
range factor isn't nearly as good.
If you want a list of what stats to trust it’s something tiered like:
1. UZR
1. +/-
2. PMR
3. TotalZone
3. SFR
3. RZR
3. ZR
Start with those and you’ll be fine.
there’s a problem with catcher rankings, as you have noted, but even then, i’m not sure what top tier means. we can guess that it’s better than fielding percentage or whatever crap baseball prospectus is throwing together because the underlying data is better. however it’s much harder to validate defensive statistics against runs on the scoreboard than it is for offensive stats. i don’t think anybody knows if pmr is the defensive equivalent to, say, batting average or the equivalent to ops.
by greenback06 on Nov 18, 2008 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Catcher PMR is NOT a good catcher ranking
Look at the Beyond the Box Score recap of it and you will notice that PMR only looks at balls in play (dribblers, bunts, etc.) it doesn’t take caught stealing or blocked balls into account at all.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
I never got to see stan the man play and
you said something about him being in the support group with A-rod and AP was he stiffed alot too?
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
B-Ref tells me he led the league in BattingRuns 8 times and only won 3 MVPs...
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
When people talk about "greatest" of all time
the list usually includes Aaron, Ruth, Bonds, etc. some of those large names that everyone knows, but Stan was just as good as many of them and better then others yet he never seems to be mentioned. He is just the strong silent type that doesn’t seem to mind being under the radar.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
Musial: Only Player With..
at least 400 HR’s, .400 on-base percentage. 3000 hits, and a career batting average over .300. That’s pretty impressive to me.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
I've seen bits and pieces of that Costas HBO show with Aaron and Mays
I also remember it being pointed out that, whether or not Costas literally said as much (can’t remember) it was pretty much a given that he was sitting next to the greatest living ballplayers. It was kind of silly, since I would expect Bob Costas of all people to know that Musial belongs in the same conversations as those two and is still, you know, alive.
Musial In Comparison to Aaron and Mays
Stan the Man had a higher batting average, slugging percentage, and on-base percentage than both Aaron and Mays.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
exactly; you can't tell me that hank aaron's defense was that much better than stan the man's
Stan was just an amazing all around player.
he famously
had to get inserted into the All-Century team by an oversight panel that existed mostly to get people from the beginning of the century in.
mvp shares
I recently read a blog reviewing the history of MVP voting. It attempted to identify which outcomes were unjust (largely from a sabermetric perspective). The writer made the case that Musial should have won two more MVPs. (I can’t remember where I read it….)
Musial was well-respected by the MVP voters. Year to year voting is noisy, but a “truer” read is revealed by aggregating across years. B-ref has an “MVP shares” tabulation that better captures the writers’ view of players. This is a larger sample that better taps the wisdom of crowds. Stan the man is number two on the mvp shares list. And El Hombre is on the verge of breaking into the top ten even though he is not yet 30. Here’s the link….
God bless baseball reference
That’s very interesting. The voters actually did give him a lot of recognition, overall.
It still seems like Musial is left out of the popular appreciation when it comes to “the greats”. How often to people rattle of the names of Aaron, Gehrig, Ruth, Williams, Mays, DiMaggio, etc. and leave out Musial?
Side note
Wallace is hitting .310 .368 .575 in 87 ABs in the AFL which now puts him at .328 .384 .543 for the year.
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
He's washed up.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
and convert Useim Bolt to SS...
then tell the Walrus to stand 10 feet to Pujol’s right and let the Jamaican Bolt cover the rest.
I really would like to see Bolt play football
I have to imagine a guy who could run what, a 4.0 40 would be just about unstoppable.
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
I remeber hearing on ESPN
that if you were to take his 100 m time and convert it to a 40 yd dash it would equal close to a 3.8 or 3.9…or something crazy like that, I just remember it was under 4.0.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Nov 18, 2008 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Bolt
Usain Bolt’s performance in the Olympic 100 was one of the most astonishing things I’ve ever seen. Ever. Period.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
That and..
The Phelps milisecond touch on a bad last stroke….this years Olympics just had some nutzo things, then again the last winter Olympics had some awesome snowboarding too. I don’t know what happened but somehow the Olympics have become watchable again and actually something I want to spend my TV time on.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
The Olympics were amazing this year...
…when the 4×100 swimming team beat the French on that insane finish by Lezak, my whole family and I were literally jumping up and down screaming…for a swimming event!
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
It really was
It’s crazy how it was so obvious how he blew everyone else way, when the margin we’re talking about is fractions of a second.
You know
I heard the Giants are looking for a left-handed first baseman with power.
Trade Wallace while his stock is high?
I think...
…They’d be willing to give up Matt Cain for a left-handed first baseman. Right?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
That's what I hear
Although personally I’d target Jeremy Affeldt — he’s under contract for two more years, and he would help solve the bullpen problem.
Hell...
…why not both?
BTW…I think that signing Affeldt is a good move for just about any team, but it seems strange to me that this was the first guy the Giants inked. Like the backend of their bullpen was their biggest problem or something. I wonder if they’ll have a 3-4 of Winn and Molina again next year…
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
I see it this way.....
The Giants have a lot of holes to fill. They got to start somewhere. Why not lefty reliever? One hole filled. Build a team filling one hole at a time…….
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Fun with words.
“Trade Wallace while his socks are high”.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
So he's pretty good with the stick...
…I would sacrifice one year off the end of my life for Wallace to stick at third.
Wait, I better not do that…I’ve already sacrificed years off the end of my life for many things in my day…I should probably stop doing that.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
just one?
and you call yourself a fan…
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
since I don't pay much attention to the AL
I’d be happy to see either Hamilton, Sizemore, or Quentin get the AL MVP
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 1:19 PM EST reply actions
this article at dugoutcentral
brings up Pujols durability http://www.dugoutcentral.com/blog/?p=2067
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 1:22 PM EST reply actions
I did a post...
…on all the post season awards a few weeks back. I figured that Pedroia would win the AL MVP, and he’s not a horrible choice. However, I think that A-Rod or Quentin should win the thing. I picked A-Rod way back when, but I’m not so sure now between those two, seeing as how they both missed time. Not that it matters anyway because I’m not sure that the writers know that other people play for Ozzie Guillen’s team besides Ozzie himself and because A-Rod is so “unclutch” that he single-handedly (I don’t believe this is a word, but I don’t particularly care at the moment) lowers his team’s baseball abilities with all of his 35 selfish home runs.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 1:31 PM EST reply actions
What's with the lack of love for Sizemore around here?
You guys all have him down in the middle of the top 10 and stuff. He’s my pick for the whole shebang.
Don’t underrate a .268/.374/.502 line with 33 homers, 38 steals (88% success rate), and excellent defense in center field. (5th in AL OF in RZR, 2nd in OOZ). I gotta think Grady’s level of production in center field is at least as good as Quentin’s in left — not to mention Quentin is a complete bum defensively [last in AL OF in RZR] and had less than 500 ABs due to injury.
Darkhorse candidate (okay, not really): Nick Markakis. Anyone notice that this guy had the third-highest outfield OPS in the AL? .306/.406/.491! That’s some nice base-onning there.
Markakis
…the most unheralded superstar in baseball right now? Maybe…
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
It's quite possible
His defensive numbers in right field are also pretty damn good.
Alas, one does not win MVPs by hitting 20 HRs and 48 doubles.
Nope...
…they surely do not, not in the current state of affairs in the MLB.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Wanna hear something crazy?
Doubles on the O’s (and AL rank for two-base hits):
Roberts: 51 (2)
Huff: 48 (3T)
Markakis: 48 (3T)
147 doubles between three players! I bet the Orioles wore out second base.
I might form a union of Cardinals' fans that will promise their first born to get Roberts
I will be the first volunteer.
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
Well, my firstborn is 3 now
and I would have a really hard time talking my wife into giving her up, but maybe I could persuade her to have another, and we could give that one up.
The good thing about that is this. Natalie has been with my franchise for 3 years, so she is completely arb-elligible. She won’t hold the same value as unborn baby x, who is tearing up AA ball right now, and is under control for 6 years.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
6?
I thought management usually lost control around year 2-3, regained it again in years 4-12 and then slowly lost it.
by Ray Lankford on Nov 18, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
hey
he’s in my top 3…..
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
NIck Markakis reminds me of a young Brian Giles
I am torn between Sizemore and Mauer. Markakis is criminally ignored (hence my comparison). I think Pedroia is a surprisingly OK choice, just not the correct one.
Albert Pujols Approves of MLS in StL
And he is putting his money where his mouth is:
"I am very proud and excited to join the effort to bring Major League Soccer to the St. Louis area. This means a lot to me and my family, as we all love soccer and we believe in MLS.
"Plus, this is something that will be great for our community, especially our youth. I strongly encourage St. Louis business leaders and sports fans to join me in this effort. St. Louis is an unbelievable sports town and we’ll be a great city for Major League Soccer."
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
by StLHugo on Nov 18, 2008 1:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
oh no
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
oh that's right
you hate everything associated with soccer…….
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
I do
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
it bores me to tears
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
amen to that brother
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
I never could get into watching soccer
playing it is another matter, but that isn’t what my point was supposed to be about. Where was I? Oh yeah, the MISL. Those were actually exciting. Amazing how astroturf can be so terrible for my favorite sport, yet it actually makes soccer watchable.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
soccer requires too much running around for my tastes
I used to play neighborhood football in the cemetary; it was always scary when the bigger kids showed up and schooled us… since we never wore any football equipment.
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
The biggest "oh no" part of this
Is that if he’s spending money on MLS, that means he’s going to need to make up for that failed investment in his next contract.
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
On the other hand,
it is just one more thing that ties Albert to StL. (Props to StLHugo for saying basically the same thing just below.)
Point being it's the MLS!
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
Your assuming that the MLS is a bad investment
I’m not saying its a great investment (in the money making sense, in the community sense its great, and being from the DR i’m sure its something he loves and feels a connection to) but soccer is one of the largest growing youth sports around. So the fan base is growing. Also I’m pretty sure the MLS is making money right now, the last couple expansion teams have really prospered. I’m not sure that the lou is the best spot for the next team. But believe it or not the MLS is here to stay, and as has been stated else where it ties him to the community. I also want a team in St. Louis for personal reasons. Besides the fact that it puts an MLS team close to where I live, I also will finally have a team I want to watch in the MLS. I have a hard time rooting for a chicago team, and Kansas City just never really brought me in.
I'm semi-joking, I know nothing of the profitability of MLS
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
St Louis is a hotbed for Soccer
StL has a LOT of soccer tradition and a very fair share of the national players either grew up around here or went to someplace like SLU. MLS believes tradition wise in StL from what I can tell it is just the media market size, which is why Philly got the last team.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
That's kind of neato
But I refuse to approve the notion until someone tells me what we’re calling the team. Some of the MLS teams have truly atrocious names:
New York Red Bulls (sponsorship name? seriously?)
Columbus Crew
Club Deportivo Chivas USA (somehow that means Los Angeles…)
Real Salt Lake
I mean, come on. Plus there’s a bunch of poser “FC” teams. Doesn’t that stand for “football club”? Can you have a “football” team in a league called Major League Soccer?
On the other hand, the Houston Dynamo is pretty slick.
The current club name is St Louis Soccer United
I like this mainly because it gives AP another tie to the area.
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
St. Louis SC Pujols Boeing Futbol Cardinals
I’m already in the season ticket pool.
by DanUpBaby on Nov 18, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Favorite under-used moniker
Barons, but more like a WW II flying ace than a member of the court
That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.
I appreciate their attempt...
…to integrate typical European club-type names into the MLS. However, there is a difference between trying and doing…and they just tried.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
St. Louis Archers
Not TOO clever, but not completely generic like United or FC or whatever.
And it doesn’t use InterCaps or anything like that – the sort of thing you see with minor league baseball teams. SeaDogs, WildKatz, etc.
Maybe I'm a bit old for this crowd, but
in my 30+ years on this earth, I have been privy to a couple of St. Louis Steamers games. Anyone else remember that soccer team?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
I thought they played in Cleveland
by Ray Lankford on Nov 18, 2008 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And now we've reached our low point for the day.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
See Condom post above
I think we surpassed this low point already
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
Condoms vs. Cleveland Steamer?
I’m still going with the CS as the low point.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
Slipped my mind....
but I noticed you didn’t either. If you’re going to call me out on not rec’ing something, then you’re entitled to one of my dusty and tattered 2008 VEB flags.
FLAGGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
For reference
The only thing I remember about going to a Steamers’ game back in the day was that I got to have the biggest bag of Skittles in history and ate them all.
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
Steamers
Carl Rose, Tony Bellinger, Tony Glavin, Slobo, Steve Pecher, Don Makowski, Daryl Doran, Coach Pat McBride, Rick Davis, Don Ebert, Denny Vanniger, John Stremlau, Steve Caccitore, Ty Keough. Orange balls, elaborate intros to “Ain’t No Stoppin” Us Now" with lots of dry ice, over half the team is St. Louis natives, crushing losses to Steve Zungel and the New York Arrows. The Steam Heat dancers.
No, I don’t remember them.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Nov 18, 2008 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
We had season tickets
I never missed a Steamers game. Redmond Lane and Tony Glavine both worked for the family business at one point as well.
There are reasons for a lot of those names
Sponsorship names are kind of a tradition. It dates back to when teams where put together by companies formed their own clubs to compete against other companies (think Arsenal, it was started as a club of workers at the Woolwich Arsenal Armament Factory). Plus soccer sold its soul to corporate sponsorships along time ago, most jersey’s are as bad as cars in Nascar, so why not go with the full on name and embrace it. As far as the Chivas team, notice it has the same name as a team in the mexican league. They’re own by the same people. I was a little skeptical of that when it happened. but so far the connection has worked out for the MLS. As far as Real or FC both are traditional soccer names. Real Madrid is where Real Salt Lake borrowed there name from, I’m pretty sure. FC’s are a soccer tradition. Just about every major team through the world is a Football Club. And when they say club they are a club. They started as a group of people who enjoyed playing the game, and developed from there. Most of them have teams ranging from 10 years old to the First team you see playing on tv.
Redirected anger
I think the best place to put it is back into this GG debacle, but I have a little reserved for anyone that can vote Pujols 7th. I don’t think sportswriters deserve to have your faith restored, DanUp. I do think that about half of them are just fine, maybe even better than fine. There are some really good ones out there that we just take for granted. There are also, unfortunately, a sizable enough number of idiots out there that the whole group of them are viewed with skepticism.
I really believe that what drives some of these guys is the insatiable urge to have a unique “take” on everything. A different spin on things than what everybody else sees, or in many cases, common sense dictates. And that drive takes them places that make no sense, like Pujols 7th in the MVP race. Haudricourt, in his answer to one of our posters, all but admitted he did it because it drives attention to him.
If these sportswriters want to be Jim Rome in print then that’s fine. They can write something inflamatory and provacative every few days and I don’t care. I probably won’t read it, but surely lots of other people will, and their business will be good. Even if it isn’t good for business, at least it is their business.
These votes you cast, however, are all of our business. It impacts the history of the game so many love. So resist the urge to bring your schtick to the ballots. You don’t have to be unique. You don’t have to go for the 360 slam dunk.. A layup will do just fine.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 18, 2008 1:53 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Pujols defense
not sure if these are the most sexy defensive stats, but Pujols lead the Majors in Zone Rating and Range Factor
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 1:59 PM EST reply actions
tied with the "winner" of the gold glove Adrian Gonzalez in fielding %
but his RF is around 1.5 points higher, and his Zone Rating is over half a point higher.
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
also
Glaus’ ZR and RF are both higher than Wright’s. stupid gold glove
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
PEDROIA AL MVP
http://www.baseballwriters.org/awards/2008/2008_AL_mvp.html
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
Ranking
Pedroia 16
Morneau 7
Youkilis 2
Mauer 2
Quentin
Francisco Rodriguez 1
Hamilton
Alex Rodriguez
Pena
Sizemore
Longoria
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
Morneau must be doing unforgivable things to these sportswriters to get voted ahead of Mauer
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
i think it is those
damn hippee sideburns of Mauer…the BBWAA is very straightlaced…
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
Yeah, probably..
Morneau was worse this year than the year he won the MVP. His OPS was .873. EIGHT SEVENTY THREE!!!!!!!! For a FIRST BASEMAN!!! That isn’t good!!! I wonder if he has dirt on a large portion of them.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
It pisses me off that the writers value RBI's so much
Mauer was better than Morneau in everything else besides homers and RBIs and Slugging
by vivaelpujols on Nov 18, 2008 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
Everything besides
Homers, RBI’s, and slugging? So what’s left, batting average, on-base percentage, and defense? We all know that the writers don’t look at defense unless it’s an excuse to vote for someone they want to win (i.e. Pedroia), so that takes care of that.
I think Mauer is a great player, but he’s just not an MVP type of talent in my book.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
if a 137 OPS+
isnt a MVP type talent what is? there were a few that had better OPS+ but none of them at a premium defensive production. so he was a top 5 offensive producer and the best defensively at his position…what more could you want?
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
By that rationale
Jason Kendall should have won the award in 1998 before his freak injury hurt him as a defensive catcher and basestealer. He put up nearly an identical year to Mauer’s this year with more homers, doubles, and steals.
Never in my right mind would I vote for Jason Kendall as an MVP candidate, even during his best season. So why should I vote for Joe Mauer?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Kendall should have been taken seriously as
a MVP candidate in 98 he had a very good year… but there were players that had extremely better years then which isnt the case this year…in 1998 there were 4 players in the NL with an OPS+ over 160(!) and Kendall didnt rank in the top 10…so he wasnt a top 5 offensive force or the best defender at his position in 98 so how is that like my rationale?
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
sooooooo
Basically you’re saying that Mauer should be the MVP because of the lack of better candidate?
That seems to be your rationale.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
why would someone win the MVP
if there was a better candidate?
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
It happens all the time
I should have said “legit” or “good” candidate I guess…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
it does happen sometimes
but why would you want to be the person to support it…
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
I'm not supporting it
I’m simply saying that if he’s only a candidate when there are no other good candidates than is he really more valuable than those other guys who had down years?
Just because he has a great season one year doesn’t mean that he’s more valuable than that particular player, it means that he had a better year. I don’t think he had a better year than some of the other candidates this year, despite his position. That’s really all I was saying in my argument.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Because Mauer outhit Morneau and Pedroia playing *catcher*
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
There's no point in arguing with you about anything, ever.
Because you are never, ever, ever wrong, ever. I have better things to do than argue this — suffice to say that Pedroia had 73 extra base hits playing second base, and he’s one of the best second baseman in the league. Mauer had a higher average, by two whole points. He had a higher OBP because he walks more, but he didn’t slug the ball as well as Pedroia did, who, again, plays second base.
Name the last MVP who hit fewer than 10 homers in a season…especially when they play in a park that’s known as the “homer dome”.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Sorry I can't agree with everyone all the time
Past MVP voting has just about nothing to do with who was actually the best player. Ryan Howard finished 2nd while being marginally above average. Using their amorphic criteria for how BBWAA they’ve voted for MVP as what is actually the best player in the league is circular and quite frankly it’s wrong.
Pedroia was a fine candidate, it’s not a travesty he won, in fact I’ll even say it’s probably right that he won if you go with the Playoff=Value thing but IMO Joe Mauer was a better player. You can bring up all these comparisons to past players who had similar seasons, but those seasons didn’t occur in 2008 where there was no Mark McGwire, there was no Frank Thomas nor a juiced Barry Bonds. Bringing up those seasons without the slightest hint of context is incredible.
Joe Mauer outhit Pedroia from a total value standpoint before you even positional adjust. Good for Pedroia that he slugged the ball, is the only value a player has on offense his ability to slug? Mauer made less outs, lots less outs. Pedroia would’ve had to make 26 fewer outs to get to Mauer’s OBP. .040 points of slugging < 26 outs. In fact BattingRuns (linear weights=good, park adjust=good) have Mauer leading Pedroia by 13 runs, again before positional adjustments.
You say “Pedroia did, who, again, plays second base”—-Joe Mauer plays catcher, it’s a harder position to find offense. It’s the hardest position!
If you want to argue this, don’t cherry pick aspects of the game that Pedroia was better at, why was Pedroia better than Mauer?
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
How am I supposed to argue my point
if I can’t look at aspects of the game that Pedroia was better at? What kind of ridiculous statement is that?
Catcher may be the hardest position to find offense, but it’s hard to find offense at second base as well when you don’t sacrifice the defensive end of the equation. It’s easier than catcher, but not as easy as first base or corner outfield. You’re splitting hairs here. Mauer wouldn’t have played in near as many games in the national league, but he plays in the AL for a team that doesn’t have a specific stud at DH, so he gets to DH on his days off.
I wouldn’t have voted for Pedroia as my first MVP choice. I had him behind his own teammate Kevin Youkilis, who I feel is a better player than Pedroia is. I’m not going to argue a point that I don’t believe myself.
You want 5 AL players that were more valuable that Mauer? Ok then, I’ll give you 7 who were much better and another three that were arguably better than Mauer:
Better:
Milton Bradley, Kevin Youkilis, Alex Rodriguez, Josh Hamilton, Grady Sizemore, Evan Longoria, Carlos Quentin
Arguable:
Nick Markakis, Ian Kinsler, Dustin Pedroia.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Evan longora shouldn't be on that list
He was good for a rookie but he had a low batting average, decent power, struck out a lot, average plate discipline, good defense but not nearly as good as Mauer’s. As for Quentin and Bradley, they were better than Mauer, but they missed significant time so you can’t count them as more valuable if they missed that much time. A lot of hitters had better years than Mauer, but if you consider the more important stat of OPS, he was among the leaders. Also he was great defensively, better than anyone on that list except maybe for Sizemore.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 20, 2008 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Really?
His 162 game average has him at 37 HR and an OPS of .877 for the year, in his rookie season! I think you’re forgetting that he didn’t come up until the end of April and them missed time in August due to injury. He was the most valuable player for that Rays team, and you saw what happened when he stopped hitting in the World Series.
What do you consider leaders in OPS? Top 5? No. Top 10? No. Top 15? No. Top 20? Apparently. Joe Mauer was 20th in OPS in the AL this season. Best OPS by a catcher, to be sure, but every guy on my list above ranked ahead of him.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
I don't dispute how valuable he was to the Rays
He was arguably the most valuable ray, along with Carlos Pena. However, having great value to your team doesn’t mean that you are one of the top players. Also take a look at this to see who were the most valuable. Joe Mauer is ahead of all of your guys.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 22, 2008 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
i like how you say
He had a higher OBP because he walks more, but he didn’t slug the ball as well as Pedroia did
like walking more shouldnt be a factor and slugging is more important that getting on-base…plus no one in this thread said that Pedroia shouldnt have won the MVP…we just say that Mauer was a good choice too…as was Sizemore…as was Arod…as was Youk….etc…
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
Again -- putting words in mouth
Pedroia was 40 points better in slugging and Mauer was 40 points better in OBP. If you count them equally, then they’re even. I’d personally rather have a player who hits doubles and homers than one who draws walks and hits a lot of singles. Especially when the other player isn’t terrible at getting on base and drawing walks. Again, that’s my personal opinion, and you don’t have agree with me, but you’re not going to convince me otherwise so stop trying. They are comparable players and I don’t think either of them are top of the ballot MVP candidates, unless you have a year where there isn’t a breakout year by someone. Carlos Quentin was having one this season before he got hurt. If he hadn’t gotten dinged up he probably hits 45+ homers and drives in 140 runs and we aren’t even having this discussion…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
One last clarifying gratuitous snark that I simply can't help but make
So despite o-ver-whel-ming statistical evidence to the contrary, it is your opinion that a point of SLG=a point of OBP?
PS I agree with you on A-Rod and Sizemore. They got jobbed.
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
I'd take Mauer over Pedroia
Even though their OPS are similar, Mauer got on base at a much better clip than Pedroia. As the link above I’m sure covers, OB% =/= SLG%, and should be weighed as more valuable. Also, Mauer’s OPS+ is 137- a good deal better than Pedroia’s 122. Probably has a lot to do with the fact that according to BR, Mauer played in one of the worst hitter’s parks, while Pedroia played in one of the best.
Pedroia had more home runs, but hitting one every 40 at bats doesn’t scream raw power to me. He hit a ton of doubles too, but I have to believe playing in Fenway with the Green Monster played a part in that. Also, despite having 117 more at-bats than Mauer, Pedroia finished with 2 less RBIs.
Mauer played Gold Glove quality defense at the most physically demanding position on the field while putting up IMO better offensive numbers than Pedroia.
That said, idk if I would vote Mauer for AL MVP.
by lunchboxbomb on Nov 19, 2008 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
That said, idk if I would vote Mauer for AL MVP.
That’s the whole point of my argument. Would he be in the 5-10 range after a good season? Sure he would! He plays the toughest position in baseball the best it can be played and hits for high average and OBP. He’s a valuable player, just not most valuable player.
I’d take Mauer over Pedroia
I never said I’d take Pedroia over Mauer. I probably wouldn’t. My point is that neither are good MVP candidates, and both have marginal numbers. I’m not saying one is more valuable than the other, but 73 XBH from a middle infielder is a LOT.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
My bad, man
I didn’t intend to rehash any tired arguments or come off like I was putting words in your mouth, and I wasn’t trying to be contrarian because I understood where you were coming from in your posts above. I was kind of thinking out loud (in the text box, anyway) because I hadn’t really compared the two players before, and I thought it would be interesting. Just my two cents.
by lunchboxbomb on Nov 21, 2008 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
i will stop trying
we are both obviously strong headed but i enjoyed the argument…er…discussion anyways…
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
The worst part about Haudricourt's article
(other than the fact that it ruined my day knowing people that stupid actually exist AND get to vote for the MVP) was that it was internally inconsistent.
If he’s truly a moron and sets ridiculous standards and follows them, then fine – at least he’s a moron with integrity. But he argued that Ludwick helped Pujols keep the Cards in the wildcard race without even acknowledging the fact that Howard had Utley, Rollins, Burrell, Hamels and Lidge. He also claimed that the Cards only stayed in the race because the Brewers and Mets collapsed, without acknowledging that the Mets play in the same F*ing division as the Phillies.
I suppose I shouldn’t get all steamed up — ultimately the right person won. But I just can’t accept the fact that someone so unbelievably stupid has a say in something that means so much to so many people.
by Ray Lankford on Nov 18, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Haudricourt is holding a grudge against Albert
because he told the Milwaukee relief pitcher to shut his mouth during a game last year.
He’s trying to stick it to Albert….nothing more, nothing less.
We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
wow Morneau got 2nd?
at least Mauer was in the top 4 but how could Morneau be as valuable as Mauer…it is impossible…he got a little first place love at least
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
Pedroia's a fine player
And I’d love to have him but what on earth does Joe Mauer need to do for people to realize he’s amazing, or even the best player on his own team? The guy played 139 games at catcher!
1B
not named Albert Pujols remain ridiculously overrated.
by azruavatar on Nov 18, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Counting first place votes
there were 28 ballots, wonder if the same guy left them both off
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
interestingly enough
Glaus had a higher range factor than Rolen
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 2:09 PM EST reply actions
Totally off-topic
But my computer crashed yesterday and I had to install everything all over again. now am looking for a 1680/1050 Cardinals related wallpaper. Googled, but didn’t come up with anything good. Any suggestions out there?
I just re-installed my OS
and went on the same hunt. I too didn’t find any good wallpapers. I went with a pic of Brock Lesnar slamming Randy Couture to the mat from this past weekend’s title match.
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
Im a Dutch guy living in Argentina
And therefore have absolutely no clue what you are talking about!
Here's two I've had a some point
Btw, I originally found both of these photos in the VEB FanShot section.
Best Team Money Can Buy
and
Cardinal Greats
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
One of the great things about the first picture
is that no matter how much things change, some things remain the same. Even to this day, Red is never out of uniform.
God forbid when the day comes
but they really should bury him in that thing.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
I feel as though Gibson is desperately trying to say "this McCarver asshat will turn into a TV broadcaster and he knows nothing. NOTHING."
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
who are the last two guys?
I don’t recognize them and can’t read their unis
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
middle infield:
julian javier (2b) and dal maxvil (ss)
Look at Cepeda
Rockin’ the pink!
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
Voters that have extremely ridiculous patterns of voting...
should have their vote taken away!! This guy from Milwaukee, sadly, makes me happy to have Bernie here in StL.
…………………………
Sorry for that pause, I had to run to the bathroom to puke after saying that…
This schmuck was the only one to rank pujols any lower than 4th in the balloting. Seventh? I think anyone that can spell baseball can say that is absurd. Does anyone know if there is a policy of taking away votes from voters that are so out of touch with reality?
"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell
Tom Haudricourt has a grudge against Albert
because Albert told Milwaukee relief pitcher Carlos Villanueva to shut his trap (after he was pointing to the Cards dugout after getting out of an inning).
I guess this was Tom’s way of “getting back” to Albert. Pretty sad isn’t it.
We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
"makes me happy to have Bernie here in StL"
Well, at least Bernie can write a reasoned and logical case for an MVP choice. I’m not a Bernie fan or anything, I’m just sayin’.
Did that just happen?
Wow…someone had something good to say about Bernie Miklasz…something is drastically wrong with the world right now.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
I like Miklasz
sure, he has his faults, but I like writers that have the balls to take a stand against the hometown team every now and then.
I do wish he would retire the “don Tony” and “DeWallet” crap though
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
+1
On never having to read the words “Don Tony” or DeWallet" again. Never. Ever. Again.
+9 Go-Billion
That’s a number right? Go-billion?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'm all for that...
…however I hate how every single story turns into some kind of class-warfare study. That grinds my gears.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 18, 2008 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Bernie? Class-warfare study?
That sounds more like Bryan Burwell than Bernie M.
I don't think he is that bad either
Gordo is the guy that drives me nuts. I feel like the Cardinals could sign Esteban Yan and Jeff Tabaka this year and he’d try to tell us that this was a masterful move from Mo.
Bernie makes his observations and if Tony, or someone else, gets pissed about it he really doesn’t care. I respect that. I can’t say the same for some other media members in town – Hadley and Gordo come to mind first. On the other side of the spectrum, he doesn’t come across as a guy that looks to stir things up just for the sake of it, ala Slaten. I just want media members that make honest, reasonably thoughtful observations and keeps personal feelings out of it as much as possible. To me, Bernie does that for the most part.
We can do a lot worse than Bernie, and unfortunately we do in many cases.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 18, 2008 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Bernie's okay,
but I prefer Derrick Goold.
PD Writer rankings
If I was going to rank the main writers for the PD it would be:
Goold, Hummel, Bernie, Mike Smith (Hey he writes the forum posts!), Strauss
"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."
Same here.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
does anyone know
where to look up number of plate appearances for ’08 for each player?
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 4:20 PM EST reply actions
cool
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, i was just so excited I didn't read through the posts =)
Pujols for Secretary of Defense.
by davethebutcher on Nov 18, 2008 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
gah
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
That's like a double shot of "gah" for you!
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
it is
it really is. it’s like when hardcore legend gets worked up over the politics stuff… except that there’s no rules against posting about other sports I guess
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
sandlot vs the cards
i am doing some stuff on sandlot for a public message and found this.. it’s from early in the season but it should make ya chuckle it may have been posted but hey it’s been forever ago.. http://charz2k.blogspot.com/2008/04/why-cardinals-are-best-team-in-baseball.html
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
Even the Loose Nuts Got it Right
Haudricourt’s column is just ridiculous. There was a clamor at the time of voting out here on the left coast about Manny deserving the award amidst the brief euphoria of the Dodgers getting to the post season. A brief informal survey shows that even some of the Dodger beat writers voted for APu first and Manny got a lot of thirds and fourths. The Kobe argument helped them see reason, I think.
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