Most Plays for Playoff Teamable Player

If Howard wins...

If Howard wins the person that should be the most upset is Chase Utley, shoot even if Howard comes in second Utley should be pissed. How is Howard the MVP of the league when Utley is the MVP of the Phillies is beyond me. I would like to see your chart above including Utley too since I can’t find a site with EQA stats and it seems you might already have a spreadsheet for it. Also what about Berkman or Jones or any of the other top batters this year? Doing a quick look at RC/27 Howard was 27th in the league, Pujols 1st and Utley 7th, how Howard is even in the MVP debate is beyond me.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 8:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

If Howard wins, the MVP should be renamed to the "power stats" award.

by Ray Lankford on Nov 17, 2008 8:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand how APu wins the silver slugger when Howards "Power Stats" were so much better

by bearcatcardfan on Nov 17, 2008 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But AP had better "power stats" just not counting stats

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He slugged about 110 points higher than Howard

by vivaelpujols on Nov 17, 2008 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah,

but that’s based off of his much higher batting avg. His ISO was about the same.

(if you could hear me now you would know I was being sarcastic)

by cardzfanbub on Nov 17, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I LOVE ALBERT PUJOLS!

n/t

by brindled on Nov 17, 2008 9:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

You have crystallized my thoughts eloquently

and actually provided facts to back them up.

by sdrone on Nov 17, 2008 9:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

"Better pitchers"

and also more guys on base in front of Howard. A large part of the reason for those RBI totals was that the top of the Philadelphia lineup had distinctly higher on-base percentages (Rollins: .349; Victorino: .352; Werth: .363; Utley: .380, for starters) than the guys in front of Pujols (Skippy: .359; Iz2: .319; Dunc: .346; Ank: .337; Mather: .306; Barton: .354 — Floppy fought this trend, but not in time to help much, and often wasn’t batting “in front of” AP). That’s one reason why statheads, of whom I count myself one, tend to denigrate RBIs when it comes to evaluating performance — and value.

As for the “credibility” of the BBWAA, remember that three of these clowns voted for a player in the Rookie of the Year balloting who wasn’t even a rookie. They’re an atavistic anachronism, and their awards can be ignored already.

by StanTheManFan on Nov 17, 2008 9:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Interestingly enough

the Cardinals 1-2 slots were pretty comparable with OBPs of .345 and .371 respectively, compared to Philly’s 1-2s of .356 and .347. Big difference in 3 spot of .359 compared to 9 spot of .322. So Howard gets a significant advantage by hitting fourth, especially in the first inning. For example, in spite of Albert having 35% more PAs in the first inning, Howard had twice as many HRs and 77% more RBIs.

Also, OBP doesn’t tell the whole story. The Phillies 1-3 hitters were far more efficient at getting into scoring position. They combined for 122 doubles, 22 triples, and 104 stolen bases while the Cardinals 9-2 hitters had 84 doubles, 13 triples, and 40 stolen bases. Thus, Howard had 24.2% more ABs with runners on base and a ridiculous 52.2% more opportunities with runners in scoring position. Makes you wonder what kind of numbers Albert would put up with the same opportunity.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 17, 2008 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

150 rbis maybe?

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not scientific

but if you assume the additional 52.2% of the chances were equal to the ones he already had and that he performed in the same Albert-like manner, that would extrapolate to 177 RBI.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 17, 2008 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's go with 165

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think I know the answer to this, but humor me.

Makes you wonder what kind of numbers Albert would put up with the same opportunity.

What kind of opportunity are you talking about?

Hitting 4th in the Philly lineup.
Hitting 4th in the Cardinal lineup.

I know you’re an advocate of hitting Albert 4th. But I think him hitting 4th in the Cardinal lineup is much different than him hitting 4th in the Philly lineup. Philly would have 2 pretty good hitters behind him (Burrell, Victorino/Werth). Albert would have 1 good one (Glaus) and some combo of Ankiel/Molina/pu-pu platter, because Ludwick would have to hit third.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 17, 2008 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I meant

Albert hitting fourth in the Philly lineup, but of course we can’t even contemplate Albert playing for Philly so somehow we would have to acquire their top of the order guys.

As far as hitting fourth for the Cardinals, I don’t really buy the lack of protection argument much as nobody can really protect Albert. Manny maybe, but that isn’t going to happen. However, I think he makes the guys hitting in front of him better and he gets better pitches to hit when they get on base in front of him. From the previous discussion we had on lineup toys, it seems like if we are not going to bat him at the top of the order then 4th is a better spot than 3rd.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 17, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I did a little research on the ROB opportunities

Howard had 351 plate appearances with runners on base. There were a total of 483 runners on base in those 351 plate appearances (224 at 1st; 170 at 2nd; 89 at 3rd). That ranks 8th in MLB.

Pujols had 322 plate appearances with runners on base. There were a total of 438 runners on base in those 322 plate appearances (235 at 1st; 131 at 2nd; 70 at 3rd). That ranks 31st in MLB.

That means Howard had 45 more men on base. Furthermore, Howard had 259 men at second or third (in scoring position with a single) versus 201 for Pujols.

Of players with more than 300 plate appearances, Howard finished 6th and Pujols 7th in driving in players from 1st base (11.2 vs. 11.1). Howard was much better at driving in players from 2nd base. He ranked 10th (24.7) versus 142nd (16) for Pujols. Pujols ranked was much better at driving in runners from 3rd base at 45.7 (40th among all MLB). Howard was ranked 180th (34.8%).

This doesn’t take into account the easier hitting environment of Citizens Park versus Busch Stadium.

Stats are from Baseball Prospectus.

by UofIx3 on Nov 18, 2008 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

did you subtract IBB's?

Albert was IBB’s 26 times with men on 2nd or men on 2nd and 3rd, and 9 times with men on 3rd and less than 2 out. Howard was IBB’d 12 and 4, respectively. That is 19 fewer chances that Albert had, in prime RB opportunities.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 19, 2008 12:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Goold already did this analysis

on Bird Land, but I don’t have a good link atm, just search through his old blogs to find it. Basically he took the rate stats from both players and gave Pujols the same RBI chances that Howard had.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Found it.

Linkage

by mojowo11 on Nov 17, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So, I've got a class today:

about what time do they announce these things?

by craig3410 on Nov 17, 2008 9:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

2 PM Eastern Time

For the record, we don’t Howard should win, either.

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 17, 2008 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

don't THINK he should win

eom, I’m a dummy

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 17, 2008 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Saw your post already.

Nice preemptive strike there!

P.S. – I like your user name, very clever.

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 17, 2008 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I definitely rooted for Howard to win in 2006, Pujols was “better” by most advanced and basic metrics, but it was still close enough that I was happy to be a homer. Ditto Rollins in 2007.

This time I’d just be embarrassed.

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 17, 2008 10:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks for chiming in, WC

Always good to hear an outside perspective.

by DCGreg on Nov 17, 2008 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the link to your post

by ncgostl on Nov 17, 2008 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

More reasons why Albert Dominated - RARP & WARP3

Leads Chipper Jones by Runs Above Replacement, Position-adjusted (RARP) by nearly 20 damn runs.

Ryan Howard is the 6th-best 1B in RARP, trailing both Carlos Delgado(!) and Prince Fielder(!!).

And though a lot of us here aren’t huge fans of WARP due to BP’s not-so-great fielding metrics, I think it’s worth pointing out that Albert’s Danvenport-Translated WARP3 (wins above replacement adjusted for all-time is 13.5 – that’s the highest of his career.

So yeah, no MVP for Albert is a travesty and an indication that the BB in BBWAA might as well stand for Bocce Ball.

by lightbulb on Nov 17, 2008 9:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Greatest quote on the matter:

It’s the hardest award to vote," said Paul Sullivan, Chicago Cubs beat writer for the Chicago Tribune. Sullivan voted Howard first, Pujols second. "Contributing to a team that makes it (to the postseason) is a key element for me. If someone was way ahead of everyone else and didn’t make it, I’d consider him. But I don’t see that as the case."

:sob:

by craig3410 on Nov 17, 2008 9:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

What an idiot!

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 17, 2008 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

there is a reason

newspapers are dying!!!

Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle." www.futureredbirds.net

by erik on Nov 17, 2008 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

true that

double true

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

What a dolt

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Nov 18, 2008 2:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"but i don't see that as the case"

there you have it.
the bbwaa as a group has an idiot level of understanding a players worth.

by ball in play on Nov 17, 2008 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He's a Cubs beatwriter....

He’s still sore that Derrek Lee didn’t win it in 2004, the only year that he’ll ever have a chance.

I’d also like to hear his defense of Andre Dawson winning it for a last place Cubs team in 1987 when there were 3 candidates that were clearly more qualified and had made the playoffs that season.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 17, 2008 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you mean Derrek Lee in 2005?

He did have a strong case for it that year. Andruw Jones, not so much…
For the record I don’t care about the playoffs being, in itself, a qualification. But I totally agree with you that they are maddeningly inconsistent with the playoffs angle. Blah!

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not consistent enough -

Joe Morgan would not be pleased!

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 17, 2008 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well maybe if Davey Concepcion had won more MVP awards

then I’d give the BBWAA a pass. But I haven’t watched Concepcion play that much, so I can’t say for certain. He is going to have to be leader on that team, but no player can really carry his team by himself anymore, except Gary Sheffield when he’s being consistently consistent. It’s a matter of concetrating [sic]. But there are no great teams anymore.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Strauss

I thought the whole article (capped by the Sullivan quote) was far more favorable to Howard than warranted. No mention at all of how Pujols dominates Howard using any quasi-sophisticated statistical measure (not even OBP or OPS).

It reminded me that the author, Joe Strauss, said something on one of his chats a while back that made me think he might be voting for Howard over Pujols. I’ll be very interested to see how he voted.

by DCGreg on Nov 17, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I couldn't even read that article

Are you talking about the one in the P-D over the weekend? The table of “statistics” seemed intentionally designed to cherry-pick numbers that supported a pre-determined conclusion; that this was a close MVP race with “no clear front-runner”. It’s like he was thinking, “how can I slice and dice some stats so that Howard has about as many advantages as Pujols?” I couldn’t believe a St. Louis sports writer produced it. I’d expect at least a little homerism, especially since in this case the homerism coincides with near-undeniable truth.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 17, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

nah

DCGreg is probably talking about one of Joe’s last chats where he talked about being torn between both sides, Albert’s off the chart year or someone with power #‘s that get their team to the playoffs. Said he didn’t know which way he was going to vote.

at least he was honest, but still

One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.

by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 17, 2008 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you're right

see below

by DCGreg on Nov 17, 2008 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Unfathomable

When I read that quote, anger bubbled up inside of me. I actually decided to surf a few other sites before commenting on it because I didn’t want my outrage to result in a vitriolic post. Presumably, the folks who read this blog have other professions, jobs that consume 8 or more hours of our day. Yet, still, we find the time to educate ourselves on the ins and outs of the game and how best to gauge a player’s value. In the quote from Paul Sullivan and then Strauss, in his chat, we have two people whose job it is to follow and know baseball. Essentially, they have a job that many of us, I assume, would consider a dream job. You get paid to be informed about baseball. Yet, Strauss, Sullivan, and many of their comrades in keyboarding continuously and unabashedly spew forth ignorant slop that is informed by ignorance. It’s unfortunate that we, as fans, are forced to put up with this. This year’s MVP race is not even remotely close and baseball reporters, especially those who cover the NL Central, let alone the St. Louis Cardinals, should call it as such.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 17, 2008 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs

+100

Even some Eastern Seaboard Programming Network folks (Stark, Kurkjian, etc.) agree that Albert is the only logical choice for MVP. Well, except for Gammons. He’d find a way to give it to a Red Sock if he could.

"Better teach this kid some control before he kills somebody" - Lou Brown (Major League)

by TurdFerguson on Nov 17, 2008 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Side note

It’s become increasingly annoying how Rob Neyer is getting the contrarian this-isn’t-defensible-but-I’m-still-doing-it-to-draw-attention-to-something bent he has. Lance Berkman?? Really? Sadly it’s still a better pick than Howard but there isn’t a world out there where Berkman is an MVP this year.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I think guys like Neyer, Keith Law and Steve Phillips are in some sort of contest to prove they’re smarter than anyone else. Unfortunately for them, I think the opposite usually happens.

"Better teach this kid some control before he kills somebody" - Lou Brown (Major League)

by TurdFerguson on Nov 17, 2008 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But in all worlds

Berkman and Jones and Beltran and H. Ramirez and Utley et al. are all better choices than Ryan Howard, even if they’re also not MVPs.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

holds my nose

But at least they have reasons to pick Howard. They’re bad reasons, they’re dumb reasons, they’re wrong reasons, but they’re reasons. I can understand the line of thinking much like I can understand why my dog chases a ball: they just don’t know better and if you dumb yourself down that far that might be fun.

What possible argument could Neyer make to say Lance Berkman, he of .312 .420 .567, is the MVP? There just isn’t one. He’s picking him to be clever and different. He’s trying to be a snowflake. Berkman for MVP is like a hormonal woman telling me she doesn’t want something that she wants. I feel like I’m being challenged to figure out some sort of puzzle that I am missing but any way I go about thinking about it I come back to concluding “stupid” within .0000023 seconds.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I see what you mean, I think

I too get the illusory and wrong “reasons” for picking Howard. Are you saying that you understand (and do not endorse) picking Howard, whereas you do not understand (and also do not endorse) picking Berkman? I would agree. Berkman had a great year and was in all ways very good and still inferior to Pujols. Howard had an OK year but had all those homers and ribbies. So it makes sense that journalists would be fooled into picking Howard, whereas it’s hard to see how they honestly would be fooled into picking Berkman, even though he’s actually more deserving.
In other words, if Neyer gets that Berkman > Howard, how the hell can he not get that Pujols > Berkman??? Answer; maybe he’s just being contrarian.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bingo

There’s simply no reason. Pujols was obviously a better hitter to the tune of about 25 runs, he won the Fielding Bible award (of which Neyer is a panel member). What did he really give Berkman that much credit for 11 extra stolen bases?

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Berkman had a higher WPA than

Pujols this year. I don’t like WPA as a statistic but I know it’s favored in some circles.

by azruavatar on Nov 17, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How is that possible?

Does it value Runs and SB’s at a higher rate? Those are the only things that Berkman has on Pujols. I know it’s position adjusted which would give Manny an advantage over both since he plays in the OF, but to me it’s ridiculous to say that Berkman had a better year.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 17, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i've heard WPA accounts for "clutchitude" somehow

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WPA doesn't look at stats at all

WPA is a measure of each action taken during a game and how that action changed the % chance a team wins by the new situation. Each of the situations is boiled down to the basics, men on base, what bases, number of outs, what inning type of stuff. So how many times does a team down by 3 top 9th with 2 outs and 3 on win the game? Then someone hits a HR making it a 1 run lead, 2 outs top of the 9th 0 on, if the change in win chance is 50% then that player earns .500 WPA, if he strikes out he loses WPA equal to chance to win in the original situation.

For reference here is the WPA graph for the last WS game:

Link here
Hamels earned .095 WPA for that game while Lidge earned .165, therefore Lidge was more important in the win then Hamels.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lidge,

more important than Hamels.?.? Then WPA is just plain IGNORANCE.

by chicagocardfan on Nov 17, 2008 8:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's not what it means...

…It means that Lidge was responsible for the things that had the greatest effect on Win Probability in that particular game.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 17, 2008 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That game he was more important in the end. Remember it was a rain shortened game

Hamels only lasted 5 innings, the other “starter” was the most important pitcher of the 3 in the end.

by StLHugo on Nov 18, 2008 8:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Berkman & WPA

The difference in their WPA’s is overtaken by the difference in games played. Albert’s WPA probably would have been a bit higher if not for the DL stint. Plus Berkman had a lot more “big games” (+.100 game score) than Pujols (43 vs. 34).

As far as Runs Scored & Stolen Bases, WPA does give credit for stealing bases. But it does a piss poor job of valuing non-SB baserunning on base hits. The infamous scamper from 2nd base against Colorado was a marvelous piece of baserunning by Albert, but Fangraphs chalked it up as +.233 WPA for Ankiel, as it was Ricky who grounded out to Qunitanilla & “drove in” Pujols, who got nothing for it. Unless the baserunner does something very separate (positive or negative) from the batting play, all of the credit/blame goes to the batter.

That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.

by Solanus on Nov 17, 2008 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In other words...

it’s a crap statistic for valuing overall performance on the field, but can be useful when looking at stretches of games or trying to prove how “clutch” someone is.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 17, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

about sums it up

WPA can be good and over a season I think it ways itself out nicely but it is an easily abused stat.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's the argument though

We can concoct situations and corrections that show why Albert, on a rate basis, is more valuable but the MVP is about what a player actually did last year. I don’t agree with this argument but I think it’s far more valid than someone who is arguing for, say, Howard.

by azruavatar on Nov 17, 2008 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And though WPA is not something that necessarily measures an ability

and is a poor predictive stat, I think it might be one of the best ways of analyzing just what a player DID for you over the course of the season.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Nov 17, 2008 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And not necessarily even then

Pujols blasting a home run in the first inning that puts a team up 3-0 and helps mean the game stays low leverage for the rest of the game doesn’t have as much WPA as a single with a guy on 2nd in the 9th inning. All well for clutch and all, but gimme the bomb to start the game so I don’t need to be in the game in the 9th.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, yes

But in that situation, you kind of do have to factor in the fact that the pitching was pretty spectacular to keep the game from getting close. Especially considering how pitching strategy changes when you have a big early lead.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Nov 17, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well yeah

But point being even quantitatively evaluating the value of clutch is impossible when playing well in the first place removes the necessity for clutch at all.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't look it as clutch

so much as coming up big in big situaitons. If you were really trying to evaluate ‘clutch’ you would probably have to come up with an ‘expected wpa’ by enalyzing things like walk rates and hr rates, and then comparing to actual wpa.

Note that the really good players have high wpa’s, for the most part.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Nov 17, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No I understand WPA

But obviously it ends up taking BaselineGood and adds ClutchFactor in a backwards way in so many words. Pujols’ BaselineGood was clearly better than Berkman’s by any measure and it’s the “clutch” that is mattering here. Thus the ambiguous value that “clutch” has comes into play.

Just cherry picking but if Berkman had been better than .203 .338 .328 in the 6th inning (I know, what the hell? Fun with small samples) the close and late stuff wouldn’t have been there. And likewise Pujols’ .438 .532 1.063 (that’s 1.063 slugging) in the 7th undoubtedly kept him from 9th inning heroics. A run in the 6th counts the same as a run in the 9th, valuing it differently doesn’t make sense to me.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WPA is supposedly based on past games

From how I understand it WPA is based on historical games played and how often a team won in certain situations. A team down by 1 in the 6th is more likely to win then one down by 1 in the 9th. It isn’t really adding “clutch” to the stat it is a very simple measurement of how “important” the moment was compared to historical examples. Hitting a grand slam in the 1st isn’t as big as in the 9th because while runs all count the same one situation gives the other team 9 innings to catch up while the other only gives them 1 (assuming away team).

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But what's the difference

If Player A hits a 3 run home run in the 1st and strikes out 3 more times, how is that ultimately different from a player who strikes out 3 times then hits a 3 run home run in the 9th? The net result is a 3 run homer and 3 Ks, who cares when it happened?

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

When did the Ks happen?

Did his K in the 9th happen with a runner in scoring position down by 1?

Most fans will gloss over a K with 0 outs in the 1st yet yell about one with a game on the line in the 9th or extras. You can’t argue to me that a first inning out is more important then a 9th inning out (which would be silly to argue) and while I do understand that a 1st inning out could be argued to be the same weight as a 9th inning out I still don’t see it. When you make the first out of a game there are still 26 more chances to make something happen, when you make the 27th out of a game you have no more chances. Pressure, fatigue, etc. all play a part in making it harder to make something happen later in a game then in the start.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That

by azruavatar on Nov 17, 2008 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

stupid enter button

that’s why they’ll often use WPA/pLI to weight the leverage.

(Again, I don’t like this process. Merely being contrarian.)

by azruavatar on Nov 17, 2008 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am on the fence with WPA

but I like playing devil’s advocate. To me WPA is good and bad all rolled into one. It is a good quick look stat for a season long event but not so good for single games.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm getting out of the tiny text-box-squeezed-into-the side thing here

To STLHugo, the “pressure, fatigue etc” is balanced out just the same by saying the opposing pitcher is under pressure, “the hitter has gotten his looks in” and then we’re back to it being just as likely to happen.

Getting back on Pujols v. Berkman, I was hypothetical-ing that their total run production was the same and it very much was not last year. The fact that Berkman’s WPA was marginally higher because he was clutchier cannot possibly outweigh the fact that Pujols was a significantly better hitter period.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dang

I wanted to see how small it would get!

by spants on Nov 18, 2008 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WPA and the intentional walk...

I tried to post this earlier…but it apparently disappeared.

Does the fact that Pujols gets pitched around in high-leverage situations effect his WPA? I would have to think so. Berkman is nowhere near as fearsome as AP, and also has Lee behind him.

by cardzfanbub on Nov 17, 2008 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WPA doesn't care who the hitter is

just what came of. In the end those a walk does raise your chance to win, the question of how much depends on the situation it creates. The stat doesn’t care who is before or behind you.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yet another big limitation

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I realize this...

but does the fact that Pujols gets intentionally walked even with runners on 1st and 2nd while Berkman gets pitched to not affect this? Berkman hits a double driving in two runs while Pujols just advances the runners…WPA for Berkman could be +.6 or more while for Pujols it’s maybe +.05. This happens enough times and it makes Berkman look like the better hitter when the only difference is he was given the opportunity.

by cardzfanbub on Nov 17, 2008 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If Berkman always made a more advantageous

play in those situations, than it’s possible. But he’s also being given the opportunity to do something negative (make an out) where Pujols is guaranteed a small, but positive bounce in his favor every time in your scenario.

by azruavatar on Nov 17, 2008 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But...

if he was in the same situation (where the team has a .1 chance of winning) five times and reached base in two of them once with a walk and once with a double. His WPA’s would be (something like):

walk + .05
2B + .6
double play – .1
groundout -.05
K – -.07
+4.3

Pujols walks five times and net +2.5

by cardzfanbub on Nov 17, 2008 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

I’m not arguing it couldn’t happen. Unless you go through situation by situation, I think this is an attempt to rationalize away a difference in WPA that is significant (within the statistic; not necessarily in general).

by azruavatar on Nov 18, 2008 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

FWIW

Pujols wasn’t walked intentionally this season with a man on first, or first and second, or with the bases loaded.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 18, 2008 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you think Neyer knows that?

Honest question. If that’s his rationale, it’s a lot more interesting. I knew that Berkman had an awesome WPA total this year, higher than Albert, etc. But I was assuming ESPN columnists wouldn’t care. Maybe I was wrong.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes he does

I guess I overstated how stupid it was, but it still is pretty bad.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rob Neyer wouldn't be the first ESPN guy that I would choose to rip on

it’s been a few years since I’ve read his column, but I was usually pretty happy with it.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Nov 17, 2008 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually Gammons picked Pujols

Neyer picked Berkman. Gomez picked Manny. And Howard Bryant, whose name I don’t recognize, picked — get this — CC Sabathia.

Yes, Mr. Bryant, CC SHOULD win the MVP, considering he didn’t even win the Cy Young and considering he only played in 17 National League games.

by Ray Lankford on Nov 17, 2008 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone who picked Manny or CC should be fired. Today.

How can a player be the MVP of a league that he only played in for half, or, less than half, of a season? It’s utterly absurd. How do these people get hired and then maintain their jobs?

Mattybobo is absolutely correct. Berkman, Hanley, and Utley are all better MVP picks than Howard. I’m becoming increasingly angry about this. How can any sports journalist who gets paid every fifteen days to follow baseball not spend an ~~hour~~ twenty minutes researching stats and determine that Albert Pujols is head and shoulders above all other NL ballplayers for the entirety of the 2008 season? I need answers.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 17, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow that is awesome!

Mr. Bryant must be the biggest idiot in the world. it only took 17 games for CC to win the MVP according to him?! Wow I bet Bryant would have nominated him for the HOF if he was able to play in 30 games.

What a complete idiot!!!!! 17 games!!!! out of 162 that means he would win the MVP for playing in 10% of the games for the Brewers!

by thoran85 on Nov 17, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Journalists like Mr. Bryant

are why firejoemorgan.com was invented. (sadly, it is no longer with us) Mr. Bryant should be subjected to public ridicule for that pick, and ESPN should re-evaluate his position.

by Ray Lankford on Nov 17, 2008 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha!

Just out of curiousity, I looked up Howard Bryant on ESPN so I could get some more of his insight. He also picked K-Rod for AL Cy Young,

by Ray Lankford on Nov 17, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

talk about trying to be different

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice rant!

Not vitriolic, just righteously indignant. Again, we see an intentional framing of events to make a better story; even if Albert wins, even if he wins in a landslide, I’m guessing journalists have something to gain from making it seem close. It seems this is a common complaint of journalism in general, these days. Perhaps the difference is that there is much less outrage in the general populace at sports journalism’s lack of objectivity.
And thanks, guys, for informing me about the chat stuff, both above and below. I was really flabbergasted when I saw the article comparing Howard and Pujols, and that chat quote puts it into better perspective. At least he sort of tries to give a rationale, although I still think he is guilty of “tailoring the number” as he says, to support Howard’s case against Pujols.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+100

Definitely my dream job.

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 17, 2008 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

rec'd

way to go yard, bgh!

"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa

by adiueordie on Nov 17, 2008 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes, that's the one.

And this is what Strauss said in his Sept. 24 chat:

—-

I’m not going to go into the 12-step process used by various people to determine their vote. It’s my belief that most voters tailor the numbers and their philosophy to fit their favorite guy. The same folks who insisted two years ago Ryan Howard didn’t deserve the award because his team didn’t win now ride the El Hombre bandwagon. Others who dismissed Barry Bonds’ percentages compared to Albert’s raw numbers in certain seasons now point to AP’s slugging and on-base percentages. Whatever.
I give weight to the success of a player’s team, but it doesn’t eliminate a player from a team failing to reach the postseason.
Ballots are due Sunday night, barring a Monday playoff. I honestly don’t know who I’m voting for. Albert is on the short list. I’m convinced he will finish no worse than 3rd in overall balloting. But I can see as many as seven players receiving first-place votes this season.
Howard is gaining momentum given the Phillies’ push in the NL East.

by DCGreg on Nov 17, 2008 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll never understand the philosophy

where a team’s performance impacts an individual award. It is truly idiotic in a sport like baseball where you can (in large part) isolate the contributions of the individual.

by azruavatar on Nov 17, 2008 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+some billions

That is pretty much the new-fangled-internets-sports-journalism creed of baseball player “value”.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

any one who covers the flubs should automatically be discredited

just sayin

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Nov 17, 2008 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Busch 3 a "Pitcher's Park"?

Really? I’m not disputing the claim. It’s certainly NOT a “hitter’s park.” But if not a hitter’s park, does that mean Busch 3 must be a pitcher’s park? I thought the stadium was more to the middle than either way. What are the stats/research that you’re using for St. Louis having a pitcher’s park? Again – not to disagree, I’m just curious to see the numbers, is all.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

by palampe on Nov 17, 2008 10:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

According to espn park factors

Busch was the 4th toughest hitters park in the NL with a “Runs” park factor of .943.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 17, 2008 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

More truthfully called an average park

99 Park Factor over the past 3 years; just baaaaaaaaaaaarely tilting to the pitchers.

by craig3410 on Nov 17, 2008 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just curious

whose numbers?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 17, 2008 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

BB-Ref

link

by craig3410 on Nov 17, 2008 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

I always wonder how many years were in “multi”. Any idea why they don’t agree with espn’s numbers?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 17, 2008 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If I'm remembering correctly

BBRef uses a slightly different equation than the calculation ESPN uses.

by craig3410 on Nov 17, 2008 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ESPN simple BR not so much

ESPN: PF = ((homeRS + homeRA)/(homeG)) / ((roadRS + roadRA)/(roadG))

BR: http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/parkadjust.shtml

The first step in the BR model is the same as the ESPN save for the simple change of not counting interleague games (An NL team should score more runs in an AL stadium then they do at home due to the DH assuming equal factors, thus it isn’t fair to compare runs scored in an NL park vs runs scored in an AL park). Then they do some alterations and such to even things out over innings and other factors. In the end you get a long equation, ESPN’s is very simple and easy for most fans to follow.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Does BR

make an effort to adjust for type of hit and BBs the way espn does?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 17, 2008 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Neither takes that into account

ESPNs formula only looks at runs scored and allowed on the road and at home, nothing fancy. BR looks into park offsets due to some wacky numbers I don’t fully understand from my ~15 minutes of looking at it.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So the espn park factors

for HR, 2B, 3B, H, BB are just pulled out of somebody’s backside?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 17, 2008 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If you want a really in depth of park factors

I suggest reading this Natural effects on baseball

I want to do some figures just for Busch Stadium just haven’t yet

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 17, 2008 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, I see what you mean now

I thought you were asking if the run scoring park factor differentiated between hits, instead it seems that you are asking if BR has a HR or 2B park factor as well. I have not seen anything beyond just run scoring on BR. Again though the ESPN one just takes Home Scored and Allowed averaged over home games and then away scored and allowed averaged over away games then divides the two averages. to give you the factor, I am sure you could do that with the BR stuff as well but I don’t know if anyone would want too.

by StLHugo on Nov 18, 2008 8:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't take this the wrong way

but I find that really hard to believe. There has to be a different formula for each of the categories they list otherwise they would just be a total fabrication. They must substitute the type of hit, or walk, into the same formula to compute those factors.

I couldn’t find any explanation, but it would be totally bogus to post a park factor for 2B, 3B, HR, etc. that was only based on runs.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 18, 2008 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you took what I said wrong

Their main park factor, the default sorting on their site, is based on runs scored. I am guessing that the formula for the “HR Park Factor” is basically the same (average of HRs hit vs allowed at home and away divided), the same goes for 2B, etc.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Nov 19, 2008 8:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Back in 2006

Pujols questioned why Howard got the MVP when the Phils didn’t even make the playoffs. So how’s he feel about his chances now that he’s on the other side?

by JShell73 on Nov 17, 2008 10:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd say something along the lines of:

“If a player has a worse statistical season than I do wins the award for a non-playoff team, that’s, um, CRAP. The shoe is on the other foot this time in that regard, except that my 2008 season is phenomenally better than his. My OPS+ this season is 65 points better than his, I play in a tougher hitters park, in a worse lineup, with a worse pitching staff. Hell, he isn’t even the most valuable player on his own team, how can he be the most valuable player in the National League?” — excerpt from Being Albert Pujols.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 17, 2008 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A fair enough question; it'll be interesting to see his reaction.

But I really don’t care what Albert thinks about the award, or who he thinks deserves it. Albert was simply better than Howard that year. Luckily the players don’t get to vote—Albert might not have voted for himself in ’08.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure we could convince him that he deserves it this year

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll betcha

in spite of his comments about it, he’ll still have no problem accepting the award now.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Nov 17, 2008 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I've got to believe that...

Nearly every BBWAA voter will have Pujols 1st or 2nd on the ballot. While Howard may get more 1st place votes (for whatever ridiculous reason), he will get several 6th-10th places votes, and maybe left off some ballots entirely. Pujols will win the 2008 MVP.

by southsidepat on Nov 17, 2008 10:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

The difference between 2-10

is a lot less than the difference between 1st and 2nd. 14 points vs. 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, … 1

Usually, whoever gets the most 1st place votes wins.

BTW, according to Wikipedia, Cardinals are second in MVPs with 18 with Yankees at 22 – Come on Albert let’s get them!

by enoscountry on Nov 17, 2008 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Right, but...

What I’m saying is that there could be some “right thinking” voters who put Howard at the bottom of their ballot or leave him off completely. If 10-12% of the voters have Howard 6th or lower, that could mean that Pujols could lose the first place vote 60/40 and still win the MVP (Assuming nearly all voters have Pujols in the top 2).

It’s impossible to say what is going through the minds of these clowns when voting, but I’m hoping there are just a few who looked past HR and RBI before casting their vote.

by southsidepat on Nov 17, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree Dan

Howard’s a good ballplayer, but if he wins I’m finished as well. We might as well have monkeys sling their feces at photos of the candidates and which ever one gets hit the most should be crowned MVP. (Okay that’s disgusting. I don’t advocate that)

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Nov 17, 2008 11:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Disgusting...

but mildly entertaining. Curious, did you choose monkeys based on the “characters” they represent in this metaphor – characters being the BBWAA writers – or is that a mere coincidence?

by cardzfanbub on Nov 17, 2008 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Monkeys at typewriters would be just as good.

“It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times??? You stupid monkey!”
Sorry, needed a Simpsons reference to being some levity to the proceedings.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I already imagine BBWAA voter conferences...

Warning, low-brow possibly NSFW monkey humor: …like this

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is there a list of how the voters voted?

or is it a secret ballot?

is there even a list of those who can vote out there somewhere?

One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.

by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 17, 2008 11:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

When

yes when, I’ll play optimist, Albert gets his MVP this year he’ll be the second Cardinal to have multiple MVPs along with Stan Musial (3)

Today “El Hombre” will be quite fitting.

One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.

by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 17, 2008 12:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

But it'll be so fun to wage a bitter war of words if he loses!

Thanks for the perspective; perhaps I should spend more time hoping he’ll win (and being happy if he does) than expecting him to not win.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He should already be in that rarified class of Cardinal greats

But the baseball writers voted in ways only they could to job him out of the 2006 and 2007 MVPs. If they do it again this year, I may start a website outing these chuckleheads. Sullivan and Strauss will be nos. 1 and 2 and the most-wanted list, followed by Gomez and Howard Bryant.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 17, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mark Cuban will not be buying the Cubs

he may be on his way to ‘in the butt’ prison.

Insider Trading charges from 2004 for a website called mama.com.

Ouch.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 17, 2008 12:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1117081cuban1.html

Though an “upset and angry” Cuban reportedly told the unnamed CEO, “Well, now I’m screwed. I can’t sell,” the SEC alleges that he, in fact, moved quickly to unload his Mamma.com shares. Within hours of learning of the stock offering, Cuban allegedly directed his broker to “sell what you can tonight and just get me out the next day.” The SEC charges that by “selling his Mamma.com shares prior to the public announcement” of the stock offering, “Cuban avoided losses in excess of $750,000.”

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Civil case

The case against Cuban is for civil penalties. There are no criminal charges being sought at present.

by holden on Nov 17, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And even if there were

he’d be going to federal prison, which is really easy and rarely violent.

by spants on Nov 18, 2008 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Are there conjugal visits?"

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 18, 2008 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As someone who is family with someone that has worked their entire

career in federal prison, you could not be more wrong.

Unless of course you were joking.

This is starting out like the Stewart case. Civil suit, which will be followed by criminal charges…specifically if they can catch Cuban in a lie in the civil case.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 18, 2008 12:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

CUBAN....insider trading charges...

First the let Kerry Wood go….and Now no Cuban for sure……it’s a tough week for the Cub fan…LOL

by Timbo02 on Nov 17, 2008 12:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I refuse to believe Cuban would be as stupid as what they are charging him with

There’s simply no way. That’d be the dumbest case of insider trading in history, I can’t possibly fathom a man as smart as Cuban would do that and a man as rich as Cuban to save 750k.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hard to believe

Yeah, that makes you scratch your head. He seems like a smart guy. Hard to imagine he would risk it all (and his net worth right now is roughly 2.3 bill) on a “piddly” stock that saved him 750k in losses.

Should be interesting to see how it plays out.

by paposse on Nov 17, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Has CNN called the votes yet?

Just wondering. Figured Wolf Blitzer is out there somewhere with an itchy projection finger.

by paposse on Nov 17, 2008 1:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

And a touchscreen map that really isn't that cool

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe some pretty lame holographic interviews.

With 0% of divisions reporting, we are projecting the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim will defeat the Milwaukee Brewers in the 2009 World Series.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey those holographs

we’re pretty cool. In a cheesy sci-fi porn movie kind of way.

Won’t be long until I’m able to watch a Pujols AB with my iPhoneHolograph.

by paposse on Nov 17, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

dammit....

f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5

by craig3410 on Nov 17, 2008 2:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hmm

Are you mad at browser refreshing or do you know something we don’t?

by paposse on Nov 17, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

look what i found

by craig3410 on Nov 17, 2008 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

if that is accurate...

i would LOVE to know what jackass voted albert 7th…are you kidding me?

by LukeMP1186 on Nov 17, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that is the worst layout for a webpage ive ever seen

did a 5 year old make it?

by rlgosnell on Nov 17, 2008 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks for the link

but, man, that site hurt my eyes. I’m happy for Albert, but pretty hard to believe Chase Utley didn’t make the top ten.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Nov 17, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

PUJOLS NL MVP!!

thank the lord

7 rec comment - November 12, 2008

by emrfg8 on Nov 17, 2008 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

YES!

by LukeMP1186 on Nov 17, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

MLB

Shows Pujos!

Damn, you people type fast.

by paposse on Nov 17, 2008 2:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

MVPu! MVPu!

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Nov 17, 2008 2:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

THANK GOODESS!!!

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on Nov 17, 2008 2:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

WOOOOHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats, Albert!!!

The Phinsider: SBN's Miami Dolphins blog

by Matty I on Nov 17, 2008 2:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thank God

This is a big relief…

Congrats, Albert/Cards fans.

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 17, 2008 2:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks WC

And congrats to you, too, as I think all concerned would rather have the trophy you’ve got in Philly….

by random on Nov 17, 2008 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Alberto Rodrigo Francisco Gomez Adam Guillermo Manuel Garcia Garcia Pujols!!

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 17, 2008 2:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Congrats Albert

Sorry Ryan Howard

by madeintaiwan on Nov 17, 2008 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Albert, when reached for comment

“You know, mang, first I just want to thank Jesus Christ My Lord and Savior for giving me this opportunity, mang. Mama going to be making some good cookin’ tonight.”

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 17, 2008 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

D's pork chops are delicious

i highly recommend them to everyone

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Nov 17, 2008 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wow news travel fast!

wohoo baseball channel announced Pujols the winner!!! Congrats, compadre. Latinos, we are dominating this game :D

Yadi swings and hits a high fly ball... Endy Chavez goes back, to the track, to the wall... ITS A GUNNER!! Yadi gives St. Louis the lead in the top of the ninth!

by Paulspike on Nov 17, 2008 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Who the #@!k votes Apu 7th I mean seriously

by bearcatcardfan on Nov 17, 2008 2:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

ya I just saw that..

wtf?!

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on Nov 17, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Howard Bryant?

by Ray Lankford on Nov 17, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No doubt.

Also, Ryan Ludwick beats out Matt Holliday. FWIW

by paposse on Nov 17, 2008 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and How does Nate Mcclouth get a vote is it automatic with the lead shoot i mean gold glove

by bearcatcardfan on Nov 17, 2008 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is there anywhere..

That shows the voting tally? Like who got the 1st place votes, 2nd place votes etc.?

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 17, 2008 2:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

as posted above

Check this out.

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Nov 17, 2008 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks mang

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 17, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That link hurts my eyes

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

holy crap i'm blind!

damn WTF made that

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Nov 17, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

98

It also reminds me that Big Mac did not get the 98 MVP despite being the world favorite slugger that season.

by paposse on Nov 17, 2008 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ludwick with seven top 10 votes

Attaboy, Von Ludwig

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Nov 17, 2008 2:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

All hail the King!

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Nov 17, 2008 2:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

CAN I GET AN AMEN!!!!

MVP…MVP….MVP…MVP…MVP!!!!!!!!!!!

We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

by KYCards on Nov 17, 2008 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Amen!!!!

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 17, 2008 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

winner winner chicken dinner!

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Nov 17, 2008 2:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Congratulations El Hombre

Justice is served; the BBWAA MVP award still means something, for now.

by iwannarock24 on Nov 17, 2008 2:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Congrats to the best and classiest player in baseball.

Woo hoo!

Lou Brock loves Lamp.

by birdjam on Nov 17, 2008 2:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Who the hell...

voted Albert 7th?!? What a joke…

by nzach54 on Nov 17, 2008 2:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I just noticed that myself

Whoever ranked Pujols 7th in MVP voting has about as much business casting a ballot as my pet turtle.

by BTown Birds fan on Nov 17, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They should be fired immediately

Like no joke, they should lose their job over that vote. Not out of the BBWAA voting, they should lose their job about writing for sports.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

they probably coded that page

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 17, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They confused Albert and Ludwick

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 17, 2008 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Crabman is that you?

*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*

by Red Blazer on Nov 17, 2008 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Howard Bryant?

Ok, I’ll stop now.

by Ray Lankford on Nov 17, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Chase Utley

Finished 15th? Hoo lawdy. Whatever faith in the BBWAA that was restored for giving the award to Albert is effectively canceled out by Albert receiving a 7th place vote and by Chase Utley not even being in the top 10. :/

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 17, 2008 2:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, it’s kinda nauseating.

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 17, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

shouldn't Utley be 2nd?

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would have put Utley somewhere behind Pujols, Chipper, and Berkman, I think. I actually kind of like Lidge as team MVP, too (his WPA was ridiculous).

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 17, 2008 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Utley

produced a TON for a 2B… so I think I’d have to give him 2nd place.

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And by some metrics he was the best defensive player, at any position, in MLB in 2008.

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 17, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Way to go Albert

Looking good, amigo.

by lightbulb on Nov 17, 2008 2:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

So, hey last time he won the MVP

The Cardinals won the World Series the following year…

When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?

by RosevilleRedbird on Nov 17, 2008 2:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

the following year

Albert was better than when he won. Looks like 2009 will be awesome!

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The best part about him winning

ESPN actually has to show Cardinals highlights.

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 17, 2008 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+100

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 17, 2008 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

how many votes he got?

Congratulations, Albert!

by J.Wu on Nov 17, 2008 2:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

18 First Place votes for APu

10 second place….Howard received 10 first place votes and Brad Lidge got the last two for first.

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Nov 17, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

18 of 30

would be better if we made the playoff

by J.Wu on Nov 17, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoops...

Howard with 12 first place votes, not 10

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Nov 17, 2008 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so how many votes exactly?

30? 32?

by J.Wu on Nov 17, 2008 2:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

There are 32 first place votes

Albert:18
Howard: 12
Lidge: 2

I just can’t type…..

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Nov 17, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I've said it 20 times

But I wonder if Victorino doesn’t throw out Gregor Blanco and he isn’t perfect if Lidge gets even a single top-10 MVP vote.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It looks like

Someone left Howard off their ballot entirely.

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 17, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You beat me to it...

1st – 12
2 – 10
3 – 6
5 – 1
6 – 1
7 – 2
10 – 1
= 31 total votes. Who was it, and when can shake his/her hand? I’d also like to meet the voter who gave him the 10th place vote. After that I’d like to meet the voters that put AP 3rd, 4th and 7th in a dark alley.

by cardzfanbub on Nov 17, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Blame Howard Bryant

New VEB meme?

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 17, 2008 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How the hell did Manny Ramirez

get more votes than Lance Berkman? Are you serious?

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 17, 2008 2:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

No kidding.

There are still a lot of double-you-tee-effs in the voting, even if the best Mang won.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Congrats Mang!

The greatest

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 2:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wait...none of this makes sense!!!

Hank Aaron Award=Best offensive player in the league=most valuable player to his team=MVP

2008 Hank Aaron Award Winner=Aramis Ramirez=10th Most Valuable Player in the league

What is this madness!?!?!?!

Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...

by RunninRedbird on Nov 17, 2008 2:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

ahhh web voting!

Chicago style.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 17, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hank Aaron Award is the new MVP award

it’s meaningless

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Tradition Continues!!!

5 NL MVPs Between the two best players in Cardinals history!

We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

by KYCards on Nov 17, 2008 2:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That's awesome

I wish I had that

by saladdays on Nov 17, 2008 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

6 NL MVPs next year!

Pujols will tie Musial for most MVPs in the Cardinals organization

by J.Wu on Nov 17, 2008 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Albert is so good

He wins the MVP multiple times despite the baseball writers. Now that’s powah!

Congratulations El Hombre.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 17, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OT: Affeldt to the Giants

Guess winning isn’t a priority to everyone.

Affeldt signs 2 year deal with Giants

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 17, 2008 2:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

that is exaclty who i had him going to in yesterdays post

or at least will have there when i get around to doing it…

"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby

by nomar34 on Nov 17, 2008 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As of mid-day yesterday

i was the only one picked him going anywhere other than to the Cards. Don’t remember where, but I don’t think it was the Giants. I would like to take this time to change my vote, however.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 17, 2008 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have that card, Scoot.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Nov 17, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I do too

Actually, I may have a couple copies of it. Found the pic online today. Love the sideburns and fro

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 17, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Vote for a baseball blogger.

Dave Cameron was nominated for a $10,000 scholarship based on the USSM post he wrote about Kind Felix’s pitch selection. It’s something of a popularity contest and he was in the lead for a good while but as of this weekend has fallen into second place. It literally takes 3 mouse clicks (10 seconds?) to vote for someone who is consistently offering insights about the Mariners and baseball in general at Fangraphs.

I’d encourage anyone who hasn’t yet to take the time to vote for Dave.

by azruavatar on Nov 17, 2008 3:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I support this initiative.

Bloggers getting money? Using the slippery slope line of reasoning, I can only assume we will be seeing lboros on Baseball Tonight soon.

by mojowo11 on Nov 17, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ben Popkin from Consumerist

is now a regular guest on MSNBC, so there is precident for bloggers making it to TV shows even if it is just guests.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nate Silver got a lot of attention recently

What with FiveThirtyEight being insanely accurate and stuff. And he did PECOTA, so that’s pretty sweet.

by mojowo11 on Nov 17, 2008 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Man it sucks they are selling the Consumerist

It is one of my favorite sites

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 17, 2008 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I voted

Very easy, just a couple clicks like azru says, and the vote is extremely close.

Get out there and make your voice heard!!!

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 17, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i've voted for dave

but this is a stupid way to decide as to who gets a scholarship. Dave probably deserves to win, but 10K shouldn’t be decided by who can drum up the most internet votes. If that Daily Kos guy wins, well…ergh.

Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle." www.futureredbirds.net

by erik on Nov 17, 2008 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ballot issues

I noticed that the BBWAA made a pretty big error in their voting for National League Most Valuable Ramirez. First of all Manny is at the top of the Ramirezes when he played about a third of the season in the NL. Second, poor Hanley is right behind Aramis. Not cool guys.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 3:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

vindication, oh how sweet you taste

congrats Mang. and thank you Gob for letting him be a Cardinal. may he never leave us

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Nov 17, 2008 3:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ryan Howard?? COME ON!!!!

by arfuze300 on Nov 17, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

His stats aren't a trick

they’re an illuuuuusion.

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Nov 17, 2008 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Que "The Final Countdown" by Europe.

We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

by KYCards on Nov 17, 2008 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn, beat me to it.

Watch out for loose seals, everybody.
Who is this “Hermano” guy anyway?

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Does he have a (Ryan) Franklin hand puppet?

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 17, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who is this little friend?

My name is Judge.

Whose name is Judge?

My name is.

That’s a silly name.

Judge. My name.

Yes, I am judging your name. It am silly.

Is.

Oh, now you’re correcting my grammar?

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Nov 17, 2008 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

At Least

The BBWAA can’t say “I’ve made a terrible mistake.”

C70 at the Bat

by Cardinal70 on Nov 17, 2008 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thank the lord

congrats, mang!

this site might’ve exploded had howard won.

by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 17, 2008 3:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

what I don't get

is how Ryan Braun finished 3rd in MVP voting

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 3:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

he gets extra points for being elf boy as we approach the holiday season.

by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 17, 2008 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I found that amusing, too

Ludwick was better than Braun in just about every conceivable way, and finished 16th (!) in balloting.

But then there’s that whole playoff thing…but, wait, Albert got first in balloting…

Goddamnit, this system sucks.

by mojowo11 on Nov 17, 2008 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mark Worell

lead the majors in slugging and OPS, maybe he should switch from being a pitcher

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 3:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

1 AB, 1 HR correct?

by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 17, 2008 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

GS

"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."

by SoonerfanTU on Nov 17, 2008 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i think it was 3 run actually

by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 17, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I stand corrected.

"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."

by SoonerfanTU on Nov 17, 2008 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It sure felt like a grand slam at the time.

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That was the 3rd most memorable moment of the year.

2nd: Mather hitting his home run a few innings later

1st: Kennedy hitting the double off Pappy.

and guess what, the pen blew up in both those games.

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 17, 2008 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that nationals game is not going to be forgotten any time soon

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What I don't get

is that CC Sabathia got a lot of MVP points, Tim Linsecum didn’t, but Linsecum won the Cy Young.

Are all of these voters REALLY emphasizing those HR that Sabathia hit or something? Did Linsecum not pitch well enough in the games he didn’t start?

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Nov 17, 2008 3:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

i think since most of the voters figured lincecum would win the cy young

they didn’t bother figuring him for the mvp.

by stlcardinalsfang on Nov 17, 2008 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That still doesn't make sense

why are they voting for CC for MVP, then? It probably is different voters, but still…

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Nov 17, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

different votes

the CY voters are not the MVP ones.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

they are emphasizing the impact he had to the Brewers team

but I think Manny had just as much impact

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Affeldt

Signed with SF today. Thought we might push hard for him.

"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."

by SoonerfanTU on Nov 17, 2008 3:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Because SF desperately needs a LOOGY

that will fix all of their problems. The pieces are beginning to fall into place for them…

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Nov 17, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right...

They only have to sign a 1B, 2B, 3B, RF, LF players who can hit, a SS who doesn’t qualify for senior discounts at hotels, and hope Aaron Rowand goes back to his Philly form…

After that, they’re SET!

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 17, 2008 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

San Francisco: Where baseball goes to die

Less so with Lincecum/Cain, in their defense

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, and Willie McCovery, Juan Marichai, Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, etc.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Nov 17, 2008 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, I meant no disrespect to history

But that was clearly the post-Bonds motto

by mattybobo on Nov 17, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lincecum/Cain...

…and pray for rain.

And hitters.

by lightbulb on Nov 17, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not going to question Mo yet

but he can cross this guy off his list. I hope Mo is still going to be “agressive” on fixing the bullpen. If Ohman signs elsewhere….panic will start to set in I’m afraid.

We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

by KYCards on Nov 17, 2008 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

2 years, $8 million

Did anyone want to pay Affeldt four mil per year? I don’t think I did.

by mojowo11 on Nov 17, 2008 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder how much a guy like Ohman will command per year?

I bet he will be looking at somewhere near this figure.

We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

by KYCards on Nov 17, 2008 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To be honest...

I thought he’d get 2/$10mil or 3/$12mil at a minimum. The guy is good enough to close, and is easily worth $4mil/year. He was also a type B!

by cardzfanbub on Nov 17, 2008 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

For two years?

Absolutely.

Kills two birds with one stone. Most folks think he is good enough to close. He could fill in, or take over if Perez or Motte faulter or aren’t ready. He is also the lefty we’ve been looking for.

"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."

by SoonerfanTU on Nov 17, 2008 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Affeldt was 8.8 runs better than Villone last year by FIPRAR

I’d give him 4 mil in a heartbeat.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jeremy Affeldt

Yep….I was sorry to hear that too….2 years.

by Timbo02 on Nov 17, 2008 3:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Everybody wants him, nobody wants him

Former Cardinal, now journeyman relief pitcher Kelvin Jimenez was claimed off waivers by the White Sox.

This is, of course, after he was claimed off waivers by Blue Jays earler in the offseason.

I expect that he will end up back in St. Louis after we claim him off waivers from the Yomiuri Giants just before spring training.

by mojowo11 on Nov 17, 2008 3:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Blue Jays

tried to pull the same thing with Cody Haerther last year. It’s kind of ridiculous roster hijinks.

by azruavatar on Nov 17, 2008 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have one thing to say

What do the Phillies phanatics say?

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 17, 2008 4:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

They think Pujols should be MVP and Howard Sucks

True Story

http://www.thegoodphight.com/

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 17, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Sucks" might be a little strong,

but they didn’t think he deserved to be MVP this year.

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 17, 2008 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They said Albert isn’t a good baserunner.

BOOOOO!!!!!!!

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 17, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Albert scored from 2nd

on a groundout in the IF. Yes, he is that good.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 17, 2008 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I remember that

highlight

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember that play as well

I thought he was out….but thats just my opinion. Holliday never touched home, but he got knocked unconscious so it didn’t matter.

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 17, 2008 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Howard is no Gazelle either... At least Albert can field his position.

*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*

by Red Blazer on Nov 17, 2008 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if you read carefully...

It says that Pujols is an ELITE player in all aspects with the POSSIBLE exception of baserunning. “Elite” baserunners would be guys like Rollins, Beltran, etc. Seriously, if the only “weakness” in your game is that you’re merely an above-average baserunner, you’re pretty much set.

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 18, 2008 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Top 10 Cards Plays

I would be very interested if someone was to put together a 2008 year in review highlight feature, including your choice of top 10 plays and possibly links to the MLB archives for that highlight.

I am thinking of things like Alberts scramble from 2nd, AP taking out he battery in a single inning, Ankiel gunning down 2, Worrell first AB HR, etc. Things that made this season memorable.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 5:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

us beating the Red Sox

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Kennedy's game tying double off of Paplebon

by vivaelpujols on Nov 17, 2008 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yup

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

FSN, Sports Plus....

all did one, but hey, they are a little to general with them.

Glaus walk-off against the Mets would have to be one.
Kennedy vs Pappy
Parisi and Worrell each getting first hits.
Albert vs Dempster= First opposite field homer of the year.
Ankiel x 2
Looper Complete Game
Luddy exploding on ESPN Phillies game

any more picks?

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 17, 2008 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The first oppo field homer?

by vivaelpujols on Nov 17, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Grit Grand Slam

"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem - once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." ~Al Gallagher, 1971

go cards.

by thecoolalonzo on Nov 18, 2008 2:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Miles Grand Slam

not sure how I forgot that one, I was listening to it on the radio and almost laughed my ass completely off.

by StLHugo on Nov 18, 2008 8:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

miles pitching the ninth inning against philly

that was a pretty great moment.

"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa

by adiueordie on Nov 18, 2008 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

glaus grand slam against the cubs was nice

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 18, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Investigation

Whichever “baseball writers” cast their ballots to give Albert Pujols a seventh, fourth, and third place vote should be exposed and have their MVP vote permanently revoked. This is a travesty. While I’m assuming they are the same people, the individuals who gave Brad Lidge two first place votes for 69.1 IP should also have their MVP votes permanently revoked (as well as being summarily terminated from their baseball writing job with a public rebuke of their ignorance published in every major national newspaper). 70 innings equals less than 7 games played for a regular, everyday ballplayer. Whomever voted for Lidge must’ve only been allowed to watch the final two innings of fourty-some Philadelphia Phillies games this year.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Nov 17, 2008 5:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

ESPN makes my head hurt

I was reading the ESPN story about the MVP then began reading the comments. My head started hurting immediately but I had to stop after reading this gem:

AP is a great player, but RH should have won…he had the better overall stats (stats that count – HR and RBIs) and RH team won. It seems the criteria changes, based on media whims. Regardless, RH got the ring and that what is really important. Actually, if it is MVP, CC and Manny where more vital to their team then either Howard or Pujols.

by StLHugo on Nov 17, 2008 5:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

ignorance

is bliss…

"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby

by nomar34 on Nov 17, 2008 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Indeed it is.

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 17, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

KILL. ME.

NOW.

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 17, 2008 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wow

unbelievable. so were CC and Manny that good? so as to put up the kind of stats in half a season or less as Pujols and Howard? that’s just dumb as…

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe they need to have a best trade award to appease these morons

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Its people like that

who made me search for the Holy Grail of Baseball posting : VIVA!!! VIVA EL MANG!!!! VIVA EL BIRDOS!!!!!

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 17, 2008 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you mean the MVMSPU

Most Valuable Mid-Season Pick up

by bearcatcardfan on Nov 17, 2008 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That way the Clemenses of the world can be included

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And the Randy Newmans, circa 1998

by BTown Birds fan on Nov 17, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, that was quite a typo

Randy Johnson, not Randy Newman.

Although I think they can probably both agree that short people got no reason to live.

by BTown Birds fan on Nov 17, 2008 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Now you are just

being your own straight man. Nice set-up and delivery.

by Youneverknow on Nov 17, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

to be fair

CC and Manny had some sick numbers in the NL and if you combine their AL numbers as well, they come out quite well but it’s still a rationalization of a wrong answer.

by azruavatar on Nov 17, 2008 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

CC was easily the best pitcher in baseball last year

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 17, 2008 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well yeah

After he was traded to the NL, anyway. Looking at his totals for both CLV and MIL though, it’s not like he drastically outshined Lincecum. Really, I’d say it falls in Lincecum’s favor.

Timmy edges him in K’s (265 to 251) and ERA (2.62 to 2.70). Also, Lincecum’s FIP was 2.67 ALL YEAR, whereas Cici’s Pizza put up 2.51 for Milwaukee, and “only” 3.48 in Cleveland. THT doesn’t combine Sabathia’s stats from both leagues, but considering he pitched a relatively equal amount of innings (122al and 130nl) for both teams, I’m positive that his FIP would end up higher than Lincecum’s. K/9, ERA+, Opponent’s BA, SLG and OPS all fall in Timmy’s favor as well. Also, Tim had more wins and a better winning% than Sabathia, despite playing for by all accounts a far worse team than either team C.C. suited up for. Sabathia did beat Tim out by a wide margin in K/BB (4.25 to 3.15), and barely edged him out in WHIP (1.115 to 1.172) and Opponents OB%.

Again, I’ll definitely concede that Sabathia was head and shoulders above everyone else while he was in Milwaukee. Though, taking into account the entire year, Timmy was more consistent and subsequently had a better year overall, IMO.

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 17, 2008 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I agree

That Tim was better than CC, but Cliff Lee and Yohan Santana both had better years than either.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 18, 2008 2:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I really think that it's kind of unfair to not count players performance in the other league

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Nov 17, 2008 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No argument from me.

Essentially what I was getting at was that if the MLB handed out just one Cy Young award for the best pitcher in either league, I would give it to Lincecum, at least ahead of Sabathia.

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 17, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Do away with League awards?

I know it would be bad for publicity and for the players union to do away with the league awards but could they do a ML MVP and CY instead? Or since the leagues are different (different teams for the majority of games, DH, # of teams, etc.) maybe you could have an AL,NL and ML MVP and CY or maybe that is what the Hank Aaron award should become (best offensive performance in MLB, but not be fan voted) and then have something for the pitchers as well. I know there are at least some MLB level awards but maybe there should be more.

by StLHugo on Nov 18, 2008 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's how

it used to be. One MVP and one Cy Young. It really wouldn’t be fair to go back, especially since the game is played differently in both leagues.

by spants on Nov 19, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

off topic

but when do the cubs have to be bought by a new company? is there any kind of deadline? or does the tribune just have the option to wait until the deal goes through?

this line is dedicated to '09

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 17, 2008 5:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

It turns out that one Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel had Pujols 7th.

Link. He apparently thought Howard, CC, Manny, Delgado, Ramirez, and even Prince f-ing Fielder were more valuable than the Mang. He had Ludwick right behind Pujols at 8th.

by BTown Birds fan on Nov 17, 2008 6:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

He was probably still high from the Brewers making the playoffs.

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Nov 17, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm loving some of the comments

Following the post. Check out what they have to say about his logic. Pretty much the consensus there is Haudricourt=tool.

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 17, 2008 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I just took a quick look, and I came across one that included this:

“The nerve of him to not be able to magically turn Adam Kennedy into Chase Utley, or Isringhausen into Lidge!!”

That’s pretty funny.

by BTown Birds fan on Nov 17, 2008 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is what I'm posting as a comment on there, but since it's going to be read more here, I'll post it here, too.

I’m not trying to be one of the people who gets emotional and jumps all over you, but I would like to respectfully assert that your reasoning doesn’t have a single ounce of sense to it. Your reasoning for weighing September so heavily has been covered by many other posters already, so I’ll skip it. What I want to look at is how you’ve applied your method to vote for Delgado over Pujols.

Delgado had a wonderful .340/.400/.649 line with 8 homers in September. He dazzled, it’s true. The afterburners were ablaze. Over in St. Louis, during the same month, Pujols posted a .321/.427/.702 line. In less at-bats (thanks to walking more), he matched Delgado’s 8 homers. He had more RBIs. More doubles. He struck out only 1/3 as much. As bright as Delgado shined, Pujols shined brighter still.

And yet, Pujols wasn’t as high on your ballot. So: if you grade on the whole year, Pujols was obviously better. If you grade with a heavy weight on September…well, Pujols was still better. So what I’m saying here is: by voting for Delgado over Pujols, you have literally removed player performance from your equation. You no longer are considering how well a player actually played. You can’t say you are, because Pujols played better than Delgado in every month but July.

So why Delgado’s 4th-place vote? Well, we know the answer don’t we…the Mets pushed toward the playoffs (and failed), while the Cardinals sagged back into 4th place.

In other words, you quite literally based your MVP vote on everything about a player’s team EXCEPT that player. You put the Mets-sans-Delgado in 4th place and the Cardinals-sans-Pujols in 7th. Surely you can see that this is utter nonsense.

The vote is subjective, yes. But the reason the vote is subjective is because the writers are supposed to be the experts—the people who know how to watch the game, look at the numbers, and impart well-reasoned information to the fanbase. You are literally paid to understand the game and share your knowledge, the thing I do for fun. Your method of voting only shows that you have no idea how to do the job entrusted to you in the MVP voting process. You vote haphazardly, utilizing criteria that fail to reflect on the people competing for the award.

It is unfortunate for the fanbase that trusts you to impart their information. It is unfortunate for the game, which seeks to reward its deserving players with prestigious awards befitting of their talents, but has those awards rendered meaningless by failures of the people who give them. And it is unfortunate for the players, who are subject to the whims of your subjective “reasoning,” unabashedly biased and statistically ignorant.

Our methods for understanding the game have grown by leaps and bounds. With our increased understanding of statistical application and technology, we can now even measure and document the break of every pitch thrown in every single game. Anybody can order TV packages and watch any team play every day. Anyone can see how any player performed in any of hundreds of situations—for free!—on the internet. Yet the MVP voting process lags behind, weighed down by the voters who refuse to step forward, to take their jobs seriously, and to really attempt to understand how and why they determine value other than to childishly assert, “I can vote however I want, it’s subjective.”

It’s a damn shame.

by mojowo11 on Nov 18, 2008 12:14 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs

Rec'd

+5

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 18, 2008 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

nice.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 19, 2008 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure Pujols just said "BRyan Braudt" on ESPN

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 6:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yes!

hahaha, I just heard that. He was bury happy to be in the MBP discussion with Bryan Braudt and Carbos Belgado.

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 17, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this may have been posted

but it was brewer’s beat writer tom hardicourt that voted the mang 7th…he actually voted prince fielder higher than albert….what an asshole

by VolsnCards5 on Nov 17, 2008 6:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

prefer the Desportes interview

link

…Howard trains with him? Well no wonder the guy’s good, Albert can’t resist teaching.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Nov 17, 2008 7:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Congrat's to Pujols!

Astro fan here and just wanted to congratulate the Cardinal Nation on Pujols winning a much-deserved NL MVP. Thank Goodness he won it….Our man Berkman had a monster first half but his numbers really dropped over the 2nd half of the season. (I still can’t believe that he finished 5th though in the voting – WTF?!) Anyway, even though Pujols kills the Stros season in and season out, he deserved the MVP this year!

Cheers!

SeoulStro

Biggio and Bagwell for the HOF!

by SeoulStro on Nov 17, 2008 8:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Berkman

Berkman was 2nd in my book, the Stros in now way would have pulled to 3rd place without him, he had close stats to Pujols and in some of the “clutch” metrics he was ahead. If the Stros had caught the Brewers I would almost bet that it would have been a 3 man race between Berkman Howard and Pujols and votes would have been split even wider then they were. Really Berkman was better then Howard imo even if he lacked the counting stats.

by StLHugo on Nov 18, 2008 8:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

My ballot would look like:
1. Albert Pujols
2. Lance Berkman
3. Chase Utley
4. Chipper Jones
5. Hanley Ramirez

by lunchboxbomb on Nov 18, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think berkman wins it

if he doesn’t completely fall off the cliff in September (.633 OPS), there’s a good chance that the astros are playing in October.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 19, 2008 12:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that is,

but since he had a bad septrember, he finished in about the right place.

god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs

by SleepyCA on Nov 19, 2008 12:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Congrats El Hombre!!!!!

by nmstar on Nov 17, 2008 8:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

stupid brewers fan

Pujols as MVP is such a JOKE. It’s a disgrace to the players that deserve the award and MLB. HOW do we listen year after year from the voters, “well, he had a great year but his team didn’t make to the playoffs” or “you cannot vote a MVP from a team that didn’t make the postseason”, but here we are with a MVP from a 4TH PLACE TEAM! This is such a joke and makes a mochary or the sport. An award given to the same man that complained that a player should not get MVP from a losing squad. Congrats Pujols! I hope HGH is enscribed right next to your name on the tropy and your balding head shines in the reflection every time you admire your award.

unbefreakinlievable

by VolsnCards5 on Nov 17, 2008 9:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

What do you expect

from someone who think that mockery is spelled “mochary”?

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 17, 2008 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Brewers fan?

when I read that I thought Joe Strauss wrote it

"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum

by scoot on Nov 17, 2008 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Obviously Haudricourt

by chicagocardfan on Nov 17, 2008 9:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

That guy keeps calling Pujols immature…Really…Becuase the Brewers have shown I hight level of muturity over the last 2 years.

by Evilfrog on Nov 17, 2008 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ROFL

Stat Whore

by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 17, 2008 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Makes me glad

that nobody on this blog writes stupid crap like that. I guess he probably thinks that Ryan “Untucker” Braun should have gotten the award?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 18, 2008 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

check out Lookout Landing

and their derision of the way some of the votes were cast. My favorite line is about the way Haudicourt voted is this:

“It takes like actual anti-knowledge of baseball to come up with that list and order.”

by nmstar on Nov 17, 2008 10:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

"Look I want Ryan Ludwick inside of me as much as the next guy, but this guy is an idiot."

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Nov 17, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Genius

…absolute genius.

by AirForceCardsFan on Nov 18, 2008 5:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Fred "Diddly God Damn" Lewis

ROTFLMAO

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 18, 2008 9:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Glad AP won this yr

but it kind of angers me at the inconsitency of the award. If he’d lost I’d be ticked, but the fatc the whole playoff team deal..However this yr was different the best teams in NL til playoff were in central IMO. Without AP they are dead..

It brings justifies howards in 06, but also torques me more about Big Mac getting screwed years ago because they didn’t make the playoffs and the hopper in chi town did.

the awards in baseball are screwed up, like does hitting really need to fit into fielding? anyways Congrats AP..

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 18, 2008 12:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

celebratory franklins?

"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa

by adiueordie on Nov 18, 2008 1:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Howard in 06

I think the problem with Howard in 06 was that AP had a similar season and on a player vs player scale they were fairly even (from what I remember) but one got to the playoffs and one didn’t. I would use playoffs, clutch, September, whatever you want as a tie breaker and that year it just seemed that people thought Howard was better when he wasn’t clearly better at all. This year AP was clearly far and away the better player.

by StLHugo on Nov 18, 2008 8:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In 06 Howard truly had an incredible season

He had more homers, more RBI’s and a comparable BA. Also AP missed some time that year and Howards team had more wins that AP’s even though the made the playoffs and the Phills didn’t

by vivaelpujols on Nov 18, 2008 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

true

howards numbers were better, but i tink you factor in the missed time. The numbers were fairly close in some categories, and without him i believe the birds did so so. good points though

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Nov 18, 2008 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And 58 home runs (Howard ‘06) is just an eyepopping total in a way that 48 homers (Howard ’08) is not. Pujols injuries in 2006, the teams’ regular season records, etc., made Howard a defensible choice in 2006 even though Pujols was a touch better in overall value.

2008? Not even close.

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 18, 2008 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just wondering....

if anyone heard the Mozeliak interview on XM this morning at 7:45? If yes….do tell.

by stanchar on Nov 18, 2008 9:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Triple Crown Rankings

So I came up with a very arbitrary and simplistic “Triple Crown Ranking” basically assigning points based on where you fall in each of the triple crown stats. 10 for first and 1 for tenth kind of thing. I did the calculations 2 ways, first time I gave negatives if you were below 10th in any ranking (1 point negative for each spot below) then I did it giving 0 points for anything below 10. I analyzed Pujols, Howard, Jones, Utley and for good measure Ludwick. I have the spreadsheet still if anyone wants others added.

The First ranking gave me:
Pujols 7.67
Ludwick 2.67
Utley -2.33
Howard -9.67
Jones -15.67

The second ranking gave me:
Pujols 7.67
Howard 6.67
Ludwick 4.00
Jones 3.33
Utley 0.67

by StLHugo on Nov 18, 2008 9:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I find this interesting.

Your work here shows all the “Howard had more HR and RBI” ranters that even using the Big Three of traditional stats, yes, Pujols is the MVP.

I was wondering though, how do Manny and Berkman stack up?

by cardsgirl95 on Nov 18, 2008 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Manny didn’t have enough ABs to qualify in the NL rankings for BA but he hit better then Jones so I gave him a 1 for that, but he was near the bottom of the others because of ABs.

Manny -33.67 and 3.33 (because of the 1 from BA only)
Berkman 1.33 and 2.67

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Nov 18, 2008 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pujols is top 5 in everything

Howard may be 1 in homers and rbi’s but he’s like 70th in BA.

by vivaelpujols on Nov 18, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

60th actually

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Nov 18, 2008 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd like to see this run for the league as a whole...

Mainly because I’m sure that there are quite a few players who end up being ahead of Howard on the First Ranking.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Nov 18, 2008 9:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If I had a comma deliminated stat sheet maybe

If I had the stats I might be able to do that but I am doing this on a spreadsheet manually, but I can add people as I go if there are ones you want.

"People call me El Hombre," Pujols said. "But only Stan is the Man."

by StLHugo on Nov 18, 2008 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If Chase Utley’s home run power hadn’t almost completely disappeared in the second half of the season, we could be having a much more interesting “Utley or Pujols” MVP discussion right now.

Of course… it did disappear. Ifs, buts, candy, nuts, etc.

http://www.thegoodphight.com
WHY CAN'T US?

by WholeCamels on Nov 18, 2008 12:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

#	Hitter	Month	G	AVG	OBP	SLG	EQA
1	Howard	Sept	25	.352	.422	.852	1.235
2	Pujols	Aug	26	.398	.491	.745	1.193
3	Pujols	May	27	.373	.454	.706	1.125
4	Pujols	Apr	29	.365	.523	.594	1.104
5	Pujols	Sept	25	.321	.427	.702	1.097
6	Pujols	July	27	.347	.413	.564	1.004
7	Pujols	June	14	.302	.444	.558	0.991
8	Howard	July	25	.311	.366	.612	0.969
9	Howard	May	29	.238	.344	.590	0.928
10	Howard	Aug	29	.213	.328	.463	0.795
11	Howard	June	26	.234	.287	.439	0.736
12	Howard	Apr	28	.172	.297	.343	0.670

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