Free Agent Friday
by DanUpBaby on Nov 14, 2008 11:32 AM EST
116 comments
First, from the quote of the week dept., Derrick Goold has Ryan Ludwick responding to his well-deserved Silver Slugger award:
"I think it's an honor just to be named in the same place as Matt Holliday," Ludwick said Thursday.
It's an honor just to be typing in the same place as that quote.
Meanwhile, some interesting stuff in the Hummel piece about the opening of FA season. Most of it's speculation, but there's a quick remark in the Felipe Lopez paragraph mentioning that "the number of years desired by the Lopez camp could be a factor." Look, Lopez camp, I'm not trying to do your job or anything, but if you want I can put you in touch with the Weaver camp, circa 2006—you guys would have a lot to talk about.
The Commish names Rafael Furcal, Edgar Renteria, and Orlando Hudson as other possible middle infield options, and all of those sound like considerably better moves than giving Felipe Lopez his desired nine year, $134 million deal. (In his camp's defense, he did hit .385! last year.)
I never would have imagined this after watching the Cardinals go into the 2008 season with Adam Kennedy and Cesar Izturis in the starting lineup, but the middle infield is just begging to underachieve in 2009, even if the Cardinals throw money at it. These are the worst kind of fluke years—they weren't good enough to push the team into the playoffs, but they're just good enough that without them the Cardinals might end up regressing when they replace the flukees.
Izturis had his best season with the bat since 2004, when he was actually an excellent player, and still managed to be exactly replacement level with the bat. But his defense made him, more or less, an average shortstop. Meanwhile Kennedy combined a late season batting surge with what was, according to all the defensive metrics that have come out so far, an outstanding year with the glove to also approximate average after his disastrous 2007. But it was his first good year with the glove in some time, according to John Dewan's +/- system, and there's still the worry that his creaky bat might throw up another .570 OPS, so keeping him penciled in in 2009 seems like a risky move.
Here are some pertinent statistics for the Hummel MIFers, the last three numbers coming from that Beyond the Boxscore series of a few weeks back—more specifically, I guess, from the same place they got them, On Baseball and the Reds—that was instrumental in revising a lot of VEBer opinions of the 2008 middle infield. It's offensive runs above replacement level, fielding runs above average plus a positional adjustment, and then the resulting total value.
player
AGE
AVG
OBP
SLG
OFF
DEF
TOT
Adam Kennedy
32
.280
.321
.372
2
17
19
Orlando Hudson
30
.305
.367
.450
17
-4
13
Felipe Lopez
28
.283
.343
.387
11
-3
8
Cesar Izturis
28
.263
.319
.309
0
20
20
Edgar Renteria
32
.270
.317
.382
7
-2
5
Rafael Furcal 07
30
.270
.333
.355
6
4
10
See? How terrible is this? The Cardinals finally have some money coming down the pipe to spend on a middle infielder—this after relying on the kindness of strangers to fill the positions for the past three or four years—and the free agents might not end up being an upgrade on the production they somehow managed in 2008! Sometimes astute free talent pickups and luck are wonderful, and they make me feel good to be a baseball fan; other times they make it difficult to upgrade an 86 win team, and I just feel bad.
Of the players mentioned I think the most interesting is Orlando Hudson, whose numbers here are depressed by what seems to be a flukishly bad defensive season and a broken wrist that ended his season at 107 games. Furcal might be better, but he will certainly be more expensive—and lost in the glow of his great recovery from a scary back injury this year is that in his last full season he wasn't all that spectacular.
So let's discuss: what would make this a successful free agent off-season, in your eyes, for the Cardinals? A reliever and Furcal? A starter and Hudson? No less than a C.C. Sabathia/Mark Teixeira/Felipe Lopez spending orgy?
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"First, do no harm."
There is no free agent out there whom I see as fully justifying the damage that it would cause to acquire him: damage not only to the team budget, but also in terms of draft choices. Mo and Jeff have done such a great job of fixing a bad farm system that a signing would have to be INCREDIBLY attractive to justify the loss of even a single draft slot, IMO. It could happen — somebody could be denied arbitration, or an unexpectedly juicy deal could come along. But a free-agent move that ignores those concerns would be a mistake.
That said, I’d sure like to see what it’s going to take to sign Orlando Hudson.
by StanTheManFan on Nov 14, 2008 11:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Generally, I agree.
The most important thing with FA, as always, is to not make stupid moves. I think we should try to pick up one lefty reliever (Affeldt, Biemel, Ohman) and possible wait for a 5th started type to fall through the cracks (much the way Lohse did last year). The numbers posted here are just further evidence that we need to address the MI situation through trade, not FA signings.
by BustaCard on Nov 14, 2008 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm OK with looking for a LOOGY
as long as it’s not one that’ll cost draft choices. LOOGYs are “fungible” to some extent. Affeldt or Ohman would be my preferences.
by StanTheManFan on Nov 14, 2008 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would also like us to sign Hudson
Hudson has declined defensively last year, but that might be just a fluke due to his injuries, and he still had an .816 OPS. I think that we should be able to trade for a shortstop. Whether it is trading away Ludwick to get a proven but young talent like Escobar or make trade away a guy like Boggs to get Greene who has the potential for a big offensive season as well as good defense. Therefore we could probably sign Hudson to a 3 year 24 mil dollar deal and still have enough payroll slack to get a LOOGY or two and a Lohse like late season signing. I would also like to try and trade away AK, the diamond backs could be possible suitors as they would stand to lose Hudson and would probably want a good defensive second baseman with all of there groundball pitchers.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2008 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We're going to "harm" the farm.....
More by trading for our needs, no? I’m not fore signing a Type A guy this year, but there are plenty of Type B’s out there that can help us.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Nov 14, 2008 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really.
Remember that it’s a top draft choice that’s lost if you sign a Type A who’s declined arbitration. Those guys don’t grow on trees. Suppose, for comparison, that Brian Fuentes had been available last year as a Type A. Suppose further that Mo and Jeff had known the trouble that was coming during 2008 through lack of a viable LOOGY. Would saving 40 runs, which is about how much Fuentes was better than Villone in 2008 according to BP, have been worth not drafting Brett Wallace? Walrus has been hitting a ton wherever he has played, and if he can hack it defensively — admittedly a big “if” — offers the prospect of All-Star-level production at 3B for years to come. I wouldn’t have done that deal, even though there is a reasonable (maybe 1 in 4) chance that it would have been enough to propel the team into the 2008 post season.
I agree that the incremental damage done by signing a Type B is much less, and may be justifiable if a good one comes along. Got one in mind?
by StanTheManFan on Nov 14, 2008 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Scratch that number.
I was misreading the BP Davenport Translations. The real difference between Villone 2008 and Fuentes 2008, based on the BP “Adjusted Runs Prevented” stat, was only more like 15 runs. At that level, the harm of foregoing someone Walrus-class is obvious, I think, because as much as we cursed Villone and Flores, having Fuentes’ season instead wasn’t going to win the division for us.
by StanTheManFan on Nov 14, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It would have
If he was our closer and not just a LOOGY. He would have saved us a least 8-10 more games than our closers last year. We would then have possibly won the division. Does anybody have the data of how many more wins we would have if we replace Izzy with Fuentes.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2008 1:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re-read our posts.....
I said I agreed that signing a type a would be bad, but he was arguing against signing any FA’s or making any trades. That is the part I disagreed with.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Nov 14, 2008 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I don’t know. If the team can afford Furcal, and if he improves the team significantly, I don’t see why we should care about the draft pick, frankly, because one, he will yield two draft picks when he leaves the team (you don’t have to give up the sandwich pick when you sign the player, but you get the sandwich pick when the player leaves), and secondly, because having a quality major league player NOW, while Pujols is still young and über-productive, and Glaus is still with the team is more important than having the chance to develop the next Chris Lambert. Even first-rounders have about a 50% chance of making the majors, four or five years later.
I could understand if we were talking about one of the first five picks, where we would be giving up the chance to bid on a Griffey-or Prior- type lock. But, in this case, we’re not. The prudent thing to do is to sign the players that have reasonable cost/benefit analysis to the MLB club, and worry about the draft picks later.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 14, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point, but the big difference
is that Mo and Luhnow are now developing a track record for drafting much more wisely than the draft that “gained” us Lambert. A team that drafts wisely has a lot more to lose by forfeiting high draft choices than one that doesn’t. Having made that transition, the team position toward free-agent signings shouldn’t be the same as it was back in the days of Lambert, Shaun Boyd, Justin Pope, and so on.
by StanTheManFan on Nov 14, 2008 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still, the best case scenario is giving up the chance to get a player three to five years for now
with not a huge assurance as to how that player will perform. And you get back more draft picks from signing a type A than you give up. So, really, you’re just delaying the chance to get that player. The only risk is that the player ends his career for your team. Even if they fall from a type a to a type b, you just downgrade a first rounder to a sandwich.
And even the wise picks don’t work out all that well sometimes. Really, the argument against Furcal makes way more sense if phrased in terms of dollars, years and injury risk. At least to me.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 14, 2008 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you keep on giving up the chance to get a player 3-5 years from now
you just end up with a baren farm begging for scraps
by bearcatcardfan on Nov 14, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not if you have a bunch of valuable MLB players
that you can trade away when necessary. I’m not sold on Furcal, but using the draft picks as a reason not to sign him is absurd, as (unless he gets a career ending injury) he will still be a type A when the contract expires.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 14, 2008 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And seriously,
look at the 2000 draft’s first round.
40 players
17 never made the majors
of those that did, you have
Rocco Badelli (#6), Chase utley (#15), Adam Wainwright (#29), and Kelly Johnson (#38) that have put up all-star type seasons so far. You have some other guys that are valuable major league players, some who hit the majors and sucked horribly, and some that were/are useful replacement-type players. You can argue with my typology, but that list isn’t overfull with all-stars any way you cut it. And I didn’t cherry pick a year, I just chose something recent enough to be relevent, but old enough that the players should have a legitimate chance at being in the majors by now.
Uou can’t think of a first round pick as a guaranteed, or even close to a guaranteed quality major leaguer years from now. And you get picks back when your FA uses up his contract and goes away. More picks than you gave up to get him, in fact.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 14, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One thing I would say
is having a first round pick affects how you might pick in later rounds.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 14, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give this argument some credit
I frequently fall into the trap of thinking that the Cards should just hoard and hoard draft picks. I think some of us (I know I do) forget that draft picks are a means to creating a great team, not an end in themselves.
Valatan’s defense of sacrificing a draft pick in this discussion, is not only valid. It seems to me to be the right thing to do, all other things being accounted for (meaning that we can assume Furcal or Edgar or whoever would actually a valuable piece worth giving a pick for.
"Chokes it hard down on the knob from the right side. Stands erect deep in the box."
by arch support on Nov 14, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
MLB is very different than the NFL and the NBA where a first year player is expected to contribute right away and draft picks are much more predictable.
by birdo rojo on Nov 14, 2008 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IF what it's being sacrificed for is really worth it.
Laying aside the price tag itself, if CC Sabathia was inclined to sign a contract with the Cardinals, they’d be crazy to let loss of a first-round draft choice stand in their way. The odds of the first-round choice being as beneficial as having Sabathia are very slim. The same would be true of Manny, if the team needed an outfielder, and probably also Ben Sheets, A. J. Burnett, Mike Mussina, and maybe a few other pitchers.
Thing is, though, none of the middle-infield FAs under consideration have the potential for that kind of benefit to the team. In my opinion the odds of a first-round draft choice being as beneficial as Edgar Renteria any time after the end of the 2009 season are very good. Hudson offers perhaps a somewhat higher likelihood of being the better commodity going forward — if his health permits, which is a significant “if” (Will Carroll seems to think the wrist shouldn’t degrade his performance too badly). The same is true of Furcal, but the “if” is considerably more worrisome.
Yes, arch, you’re exactly right that draft picks are a means to an end — an “asset,” one might say. Assets are to be used, but should not be squandered. Too many of the proposed deals strike me as squandering the considerable asset that is a first-round draft choice. Some would not.
by StanTheManFan on Nov 14, 2008 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The first 16 picks are protected so you don't lose them you lose your second round pick
so if we did a little worse you could justify a type A pretty easily but with an unprotected pick a type A is almost out of the question.
by bearcatcardfan on Nov 14, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would never allow a first round draft pick
keep me from adding a player who would fix the middle infield or any other glaring hole that is keeping the team from contending.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 14, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This year is kind of an exception to that in my mind
The players we can potentially sign are no better than what we currently have, atleast in the MIF the bullpen is a different story almost but I would be just as happy with Affeldt that Fuentes.
by bearcatcardfan on Nov 14, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rafael Furcal is a billion times better than anything we currently have.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 14, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
AM I interpretting the above numbers incorectly
Adam Kennedy 19
Rafael Furcal 10
i guess we don’t have a SS currently but I think we could trade for Escobar and I am pretty sure that he is more valuable than furcal and cheaper
by bearcatcardfan on Nov 14, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure
but I think those are essentially counting stats more than rate stats aren’t they? I mean for the 36 games Furcal played his OPS+ was 164 – unsustainable of course, but I don’t think he was worse than Edgar’s 84 OPS+.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Nov 14, 2008 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's his 07 season
which wasn’t very good.
by DanUpBaby on Nov 14, 2008 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that is kind of misleading
considering that season was 20 points below his career OPS+ and then he underwent back surgery. It would be different if 2007 is all we had to go on, but it looks pretty obvious he is back to his former self.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Nov 14, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
to be fair
he’s using Furcal’s 2007 numbers, which were an off year imo
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 14, 2008 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
who cares if he is financially cheaper...
he will cost valuable prospets ;-)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Nov 15, 2008 4:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Valuable Prospects
sometimes the value of a prospect is recognized in a trade for a more valuable asset.
"Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win---- Bobby Knight"
by Knighttime on Nov 15, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
as long as our investment level is a kozma pick,
we should add FA impact to the roster, as more valuable than our pick lost.
if we picked and signed overslot, with our first two picks yearly, i’d be less willing to sign FA’s.
the org is setting the value of those picks as slot, or underslot, showing a willingness to lose them, imo.
by ball in play on Nov 14, 2008 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats true (depending on the player)
and it just so happens the best guy this year (Furcal) is a type B FA.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Nov 15, 2008 4:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and that is amazingly lucky.
It would be interesting to consider the ramifications of signing him to a well-above-market value deal, without a no-trade, and then trading him for prospects (while eating salary) at the deadline, or next off-season, just to stock the system.
god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs
by SleepyCA on Nov 15, 2008 4:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't the whole attraction of young talent the fact that it's cheap?
What’s the point of eating a bunch of salary on a bad contract expressly for the purpose of getting prospects?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 15, 2008 4:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because talent is un-buyable.
Well, that isn’t completely accurate, but in general you can’t just put out an RFP for a 10 win-above-replacement SS, and get it.
Money, on the other hand, comes from the ether. I don’t know where the money comes from; you don’t know where the money comes from; but this year, we’ve theoretically got money to spend. if you can spend “X” on an FA, use him for a year or two, then trade him for prospects whose future value is higher than the opportunity cost + salary of the FA, then you’ve done well.
(As grant at mccovey chronicles proves, it just takes one great prospect to allow you to ownthe rights to every prospect in baseball just 15 short years later).
god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs
by SleepyCA on Nov 15, 2008 6:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It is hard to say.....
Because we don’t know who is realistically available via trade. We still have holes, obviously, and we have some roster maintenance type moves to make (glut of OF’s, lotta RH MR’s but no proven closer, etc).
If we can’t move AK, and the team doesn’t want to just cut him. we don’t have as much MI-flexiblility as we thought, with Miles also being under contract.
So I don’t know. Yes, I think we still need to add another SP option. Yes, we still need LH relieft help. Yes, we still need at least one MI.
Lots to do. Lotta ways to do it.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Nov 14, 2008 11:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
if we keep Kennedy
and sign a decent hitting SS, at least we’ll know who’s batting 9th.
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 14, 2008 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we sign or trade for.....
A good enough SS, I’m not against starting AK at 2B and letting Miles be the backup.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Nov 14, 2008 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
uh...Tony makes up the line-up
don’t forget he actually hit Kennedy FOURTH in the second game of a double-header this past year. Sheesh!
by the Tewk on Nov 15, 2008 2:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Incedentilly
Kennedy batted .333 in the 9th slot. Small sample size but maybe he has found his niche.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2008 2:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What seemed like a done deal--Peavy to the Braves
is apparently now much less than a sure thing. I still hold out some hope for Yunel Escobar. However, I agree that Orlando Hudson is the most appealing option for a MIF free agent. I see him as being as good a bet at effectiveness as Furcal, for much less. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if they throw up very similar numbers next year.
As for other positions, I’m much less sure. I’m intrigued by both Randy Johnson and Kerry Wood, but neither of those is a Lefty reliever.
I stand athwart the tide of signing Felipe Lopez, yelling “Stop!”
by mattybobo on Nov 14, 2008 12:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
With a wrist injury and playing in the MOST..
hitter friendly park in baseball I consider Hudson anything but a good bet. I’d say he’s a crapshoot. He may have more potential and ability than others, but he scares me, especially at something like 4/$32 mil + type A status. Are the Tigers gonna offer arbitration to Edgar? I think probaby so, thus making him unattractive. I think a trade is easily the best route.
by cardzfanbub on Nov 14, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I should have said...
he scares me less than the other options in that table. I totally agree with you, he’s far from ideal. I was trying to say, by prefacing with the stuff about Escobar, that I really don’t like the idea of solving our MIF problems with free agents in the first place. Viva el trade-o!
by mattybobo on Nov 14, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem, though, is that teams aren't willing to trade as much as they once were
and when they will trade, their demands get sorta ridiculous, since any GM who lets a fleecing happens becomes a laughingstock these days.
And once again, I’m far more concerned with Edgar being horrible for us than I am with him costing us a draft pick to sign.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 14, 2008 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure the Tigers will offer Renteria arbitration.
Seems to me they have no desire to have him on the team and if offered arbitration (which would limit the teams interested in him) and he took it, they’d be on the hook for quite a sum for a guy they don’t want on their team in any capacity. Plus, they’ve already bought out his contract so you would in essence have to add that figure (I think it’s about 3.5 Mil) to whatever his arbitration settlement would be.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 14, 2008 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Renteria
Doesn’t the Tigers declining a $12M option in his contract for the 2009 season preclude them offering Renteria arbitration? At any rate, I think he’s jumped the shark. His range and arm have gotten demonstrably worse from his days patrolling the dirt between second and third for the Cards.
I think that Orlando Hudson’s production at second base is very valuable. And, I think that his defense, at least before this year, has been superb. Unfortunately, I fear that signing a FA second baseman requires that we first move AK via trade. I don’t know what the odds of doing that are.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 14, 2008 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I don't think Orlando Hudson is any good at all
And I’m not exactly sure what you’re asking about the Tigers and Renteria situation, so I can’t help much there. In all actuality, I’m getting tripped up on the wording of that question, so it’s probably more me than you. Maybe dumb it down for me a bit.
I think you’re asking that since they declined his option, they don’t have to offer arbitration? Well, they do. And there was talk a little over a month ago that he said he was wanting to stay with the Tigers which might make their decision to offer arbitration even tougher. Although, some thought he was just throwing that out there to try and keep them from offering arbitration so his options would be better in finding a new job.
Btw, in regards to the MIF. I’d rather have a duo of Renteria/Kennedy than ?/Hudson. Although my preference would be Furcal to play short (if we’re signing a FA for the spot), but I could deal with a 2 year + option on Renteria. And there’s not one FA second baseman that I want.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 14, 2008 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
MIF
I disagree on Renteria. His range and arm strength are down. Last year, he hit .270/.317/.382, which brings his OPS to .699. For comparison, Cesar Izturis hit .263/.319/.309, for an OPS of .628, while playing a superior defensive SS. So, the Tigers paid about $7.5M for 71 points of OPS. I think that the run is setting, if it hasn’t already set, on Renteria as a regular big leaguer. For the 2009 season, I believe that Renteria is worth about as much as Izturis to a club.
As for Hudson, he’s three years younger than Renteria and played a very good defensive second base for 2006 and 2007. This year, I believe, is a bit of outlier. Hudson’s offensive production over the span of his career has been .282/.346/.433 and it was even better last year, before his injury, at .305/.367/.450. In fact, he’s OPS’d at over .800 in each of the last three years. I believe him to be an ideal fit for the no. 2 hole in front of Pujols (or leadoff if Skip is shipped out).
I have to say I’d be more in favor of Hudson/Izturis than Kennedy/Renteria.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 14, 2008 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not in favor of signing either Renteria or Hudson
if it costs our first round pick. I fully expect the Tigers not offer Edgar arbitration and perhaps Arizona might do the same to Hudson (I also think Chicago isn’t offering Kerry Wood arbitration) so a little patience will be rewarded here.
by nmstar on Nov 14, 2008 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No way Chicago offers Wood arbitration
They can’t afford having him on the roster.
There was talk about it and Woods comments today on the radio here in Chicago. They also think the cubs will have trouble signing Dempster. Btw, with the Braves dropping out (supposedly) of the Peavy deal, that puts the cubs in a pretty good spot. But I would think they really shot themselves in the foot by trading Ceda to the Marlins yesterday. Figure that’s the kind of guy a team like the Padres would want after they just got rid of Hoffman. Not that Ceda would be ready this year, but neither will the Padres.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 14, 2008 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
declining and buying out
renteria’s 09 contract (10-30 mlb.com), makes renteria a 09 FA when the market opens (today). he’s off the 40 man.
all clubs have until dec 1 to offer arb to their FA’s, who are still unsigned.
offering arb shows a desire to put the player back on the roster, if he accepts arb, and use the arb process to set his salary.
by ball in play on Nov 14, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
So, they can still offer arbitration after declining an option. Thank you for answering my horribly worded question you two.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 14, 2008 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't that poorly worded
I just got thrown by the word “precluded”. It happens some times.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 14, 2008 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good points, these. Two more points: Delino Deshields. . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Nov 14, 2008 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Big Unit
I, too, am hoping for a Big Unit signing of a year with an option for the next at about $10M per. He had a very good season last year and think he would be a great addition to the club, even with his 45 years of life.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 14, 2008 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this intrigues me too
but I’d wait until Arizona declines arbitration on him.
by nmstar on Nov 14, 2008 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah for the metalheads
I think I read somewhere that the Big Unit is into heavy metal. And if we do Hoff, then we’ll get dual headbangers. Excellent!
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Nov 14, 2008 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
successful FA season =
Sign Manny,
Trade OFers for Peavy
Sign Izturis and Hudson
Sign Randy Johnson to be our closer
Sign Affeldt to be out lefty
Rasmus
Hudson
Pujols
Manny
Ankiel
Glaus
Molina
Pitcher
Izturis
Peavy
Wainwright
Lohse
Wellemeyer
Carpenter
I was going to try and offer something realistic too, but I lost interest.
by abothecardinal on Nov 14, 2008 12:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not bad...
for a $125 million payroll.
by cardzfanbub on Nov 14, 2008 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching, pitching, pitching
Do the Cardinals need better offensive production from the middle infield? Perhaps, but the defense speaks for itself. Our defense made our pitching better. We have, like, 37 guys who platoon at 2b. We need a healthy, occassionally productive sparkling defensive SS (sorry, not you, Edgar) and our grandmothers to pray a novena that Ludwick and Ankiel and Skip all hit and have high OBP. Speaking of pitching, it’s what the “now” should be about. You just can’t count on Carp. Don’t do it, Mo! Don’t live in denial that he’ll be back and healthy and Cy Young award winning. See: Mark Mulder. The Cardinals need a valid #2 or #3 starter and at LEAST one middle reliever who uses his right hand to put a glove on and someone (Randy Johnson?) to close games. Basic needs: Pitcher to start, pitcher to relieve, pitcher to close. It’s all about the pitching. Period.
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
by palampe on Nov 14, 2008 12:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pitching is a Cardinal virtue after all
+1 on the “novena” joke.
by mattybobo on Nov 14, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, Lopez offered to play here for 9 y/$134 M
and they haven’t already scheduled the presser? Jesus, where is Jocketty when you need him?
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 14, 2008 12:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sitting quietly on the side
waiting for Lopez to hit the market.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 14, 2008 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I often wonder if players get together and talk
Kennedy: “Listen, Felipe. Can I offer you some advice?”
Lopez: “I don’t really know what you could offer me…”
Kennedy: “When you go in for the meeting, offer to take a hometown discount.”
Lopez: “Hey man, I hit .385 while I was here. I’m going to get what I deserve.”
Kennedy: “I never said not to. Listen, just think of how much every other team would be willing to pay you and how many years. Now, add a million and an extra year.”
Lopez: “This doesn’t make any sense. How is this a hometown discount?”
Kennedy: “Because, the local yokels will think you did them a favor signing the deal and you can buy your home town when you are finished fleecing them!”
Lopez: “Solid, man. Real solid.”
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 14, 2008 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
niiiiiiiiice
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 14, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe a conference call to Fernando Vina who could supply some roids, too
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Nov 14, 2008 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
adapt to the market
and acquire pitching while you can. this years surplus of quality and quantity may not be there, the next few years.
either trade or sign. the availability in the fa class, could loosen clubs to trade and replace.
stl was 7th in the NL by ERA+ as a team, 13th in MLB.
compared to 1st in the NL by OPS+, and 2nd in MLB.
three arms as the priority, then utility guys for the mi.
by ball in play on Nov 14, 2008 12:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Braves!
Yunel Escobar and/or Kelly Johnson. Both seem tough because the Braves are still working a Peavy deal – allegedly including Escobar – and have also apparently made statements that they’re only willing to part with one of their young MIs. Who knows what could happen if somebody else, like the Cubs, gets Peavy though?
Kennedy is under contract, and it seems unlikely that we’ll be able to honor his trade request without picking up at least some of the check. He costs as low as nothing compared to whatever was offered to Lopez.
I’d put Kennedy at 2B by default, so SS and the bullpen get my vote.
If the Padres do get Escobar they should be looking to deal all 6.5M of Khalil Greene but some of the stuff I’ve read about Towers’ early demands is laughable. Per http://masnsports.com/2008/11/talkin-baseball.html
I exchanged e-mails with someone in San Diego who mentions that the Padres are seeking “advanced prospects or 0-3 guys at virtually any position save first base or third base” in exchange for shortstop Khalil Greene. Pitching is No. 1 on that list. And “0-3 guys” doesn’t include Daniel Cabrera after three starts. We’re talking service time.
WAT?
The only FA activity that interests me ATM is name-that-LOOGY and a potentially undervalued R Johnson.
FIP > ERA, OBP > AVG
by astrostl on Nov 14, 2008 12:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I have already deceided
Kennedy is going to Arizona cause they need a good cheap 2B. Now we will have to eat part of the contract but they are acting like Marlin’s now. So the question is what prospect or player can we buy from them? Juan Cruz?
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 14, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i would just sign cruz
as he is a free agent…..
/me is not advocating this just pointing out he is a free agent
by FunkeeC on Nov 14, 2008 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Help me understand
what was so flukishly bad about Hudson’s defense. I don’t have access to prior year’s of Justin’s numbers, but his RZR makes it look like he has been pretty consistently below average over the last three years.
Hudson trails Kaz Matsui, Clint Barmes, and Howie Kendrick in Total Value and was barely better than Aaron Miles while being an even worse 2B than Miles. Just say no.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Nov 14, 2008 1:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
hudson
was above average in +/- in 2006 and 2007 and, if I remember correctly, also fared well in UZR and PMR.
by DanUpBaby on Nov 14, 2008 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My only worry with Hudson is that 2B don't age all that well
(cf. Robbie Alomar for a ridiculous example of falling off of a cliff), so I’m weary of signing the guy to a multiyear deal.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 14, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would sign him two a 3 year deal
Then after he has over an .800 OPS in his first 2 year trade him away.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 15, 2008 1:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Furcal
2007 isn’t the best barometer for him really. Of course, neither is 08’ on the other extreme. Makes him an interesting case to evaluate. I’d guess most projections will have him somewhere approaching league average offense at a premium position, so I still consider him a solid upgrade for us.
The injury history is a concern, and apparently his market may get too overheated. If you can’t get something done via trade, however, I would not be against overpaying a little bit here. Just because I don’t think we can count on Tyler Greene, or anybody else above A ball. So we need to fill this position for a few years.
We should do our due diligence with the trade market, but keep ourselves in talks here too in case nothing can get done via trade. If nothing else, if other teams think you are serious about signing Furcal, then we may get a few serious trade offers (OF for MI) on Mo’s desk faster.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 14, 2008 1:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Renteria
I’d be for bring Renteria back if he was willing to play 2B. Albert covers such a wide swath of the right side of the infield that his lack of range would be mitigated there IMHO. Look at Edgar’s yearly stats. He’s a stud in the NL and very average in the AL for whatever reason—
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/renteed01.shtml
His bat in the 2 hole would look good ahead of Albert. Wonder how much it would take? Would playing next to Albert be enough to entice Edgar to move to 2B?
by jjray on Nov 14, 2008 1:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I could get on board that
His range issue is to his left side which Albert would be covering for him. So his defense should not be an issue at 2B.
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 14, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
usage.........
renteria’s usage the last 3 yrs, is the biggest factor i can find, that has determined his effectivness.
not the league he played in or the geographical conditions he played in, by playing in northern towns.
in 06 and 07 (atl), renteria batted 2nd in front of c. jones, m. texeira and brian mccann.
in 08 (det), he batted 7th in front of pudge, inge and granderson. big difference.
as a cardinal in 09, he would probably bat 9th in front of schumaker, ludwick and pujols.
by ball in play on Nov 14, 2008 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That quote by Ludwick
is enough for me to say we should keep him. Freakin’ hilarious.
Anyway, a successful offseason would be one in which we (1) acquire a LHRP, I’m thinking Affeldt (2) TRADE for a MIF while letting Floppy and Iz2 go elsewhere (3 MIFs on the roster) (3) Trade away an outfielder (4) Aquire a SP that’s not a bargain basement/“swingman” type.
Two goldfish are in a tank. One of them turns to the other and says, "You man the guns, I'll drive!"
by thegodfather on Nov 14, 2008 2:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I liked that quote too
In all seriousness though, if we trade Ludwick, who is going to start in the 50-60 games where we will face a lefthanded starter? I guess Barton, Mather, and Ankiel? That’s a pretty sizable number of games. I know Ludwick had a big reverse split, but he still put up a OPS+ 136 against lefties last year. Ankiel was 101 (91 career), Schumaker was 23 (28 career), and Duncan was 38 (44 career). Barton was 95 (107 vs. righties), and Mather was 75 (137 vs. righties).
As a team there wass a 13 point OPS+ deficiency facing lefthanders vs. righthanders last year. We need to trade a lefthanded bat out of the outfield. Trading Ludwick opens up a big new problem. I kinda feel like we’d be almost punting about a third of our games against lefthanders.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 14, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Mather is better than that, though.
His 2008 MLE was 0.258/ 0.359/ 0.498 (0.857 OPS), with an .820 OPS against LHP.
god, i love baseball. -roy hobbs
by SleepyCA on Nov 14, 2008 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe so
I feel better about him than the others, against lefthanders. Still, you take Ludwick out of the mix and you are looking at question marks across the board in the outfield from that side.
I’m not keen on dealing Ludwick for a lot of reasons. The main one is just that I don’t think the regression will be as severe as most seem to. The other reason is this platoon problem. We’ll see a lefthanded starter about every 3rd day. We were probably fortunate to stay .500 against lefthanded starters this past year. I don’t want us to dig a deeper hole there. Glaus returning to career norms vs. lhp would help. Albert helps, to say the least. But we’re putting a ton on their shoulders if we are counting on Ankiel, Mather, Barton all year long. And Lord help us if one of the outfielders would get hurt.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 14, 2008 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Renteria ABUSED lefties last year and has through his whole career...
Jus sayin.
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
by joker24 on Nov 14, 2008 7:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No kidding
I actually don’t think it would be smart to trade Luddy, at least for the packages we have seen rumored. He is worth much to us than other teams seem to think. He is a force in the lineup that we would miss, especially with the rotation (IMO) due to come back to earth (Welley, Lohse).
Two goldfish are in a tank. One of them turns to the other and says, "You man the guns, I'll drive!"
by thegodfather on Nov 14, 2008 7:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the MIF Free Agent Market Blows
I think we have to acquire at least one MIF through the trade market. The Free Agent market seems way over priced for what you get. At these prices I would rather bring back Izturius. I would LOVE a trade for Yunel Escobar.
I think we should blow our Free Agent money load on relievers. I would love us to sign Fuentes and Rhodes for the left side. Trade Kennedy to Arizona for prospects or ???. I really don’t see AK going anywhere else but Arizona. They need a cheap good 2B and he fits the bill. We should eat some of the money just so we can essentially buy a better prospect or player from them.
Sign Randy Johnson for $10 mil to a one year deal. Than trade Pinero eating up to $5 mil of his contract if need such be. The reason I like the RJ deal so much is because I could see ownership actually raising payroll slightly to sign him. I think he is that ‘magical’ player that DeWitt would crack the piggy bank for. He will be going for 300 wins this season and they could pull in fans. Plus, I mean it is Randy Johnson.
So in short I would like to
- Sign Fuentes
- Sign Rhodes
- Trade Ludwick for Escobar
- Sign Randy Johnson
- Trade AK to ARI for ???
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 14, 2008 2:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oh did I mention that
Randy Johnson is 13-0 vs the Cubs, Deal Done
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 14, 2008 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even better part...
I saw somewhere he was only asking Arizona for $6.5.
by birdo rojo on Nov 14, 2008 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Three-way?
Rays get Ludwick.
Padres get Wade Davis, Reid Brignac, Boggs and Jones.
Cardinals get Peavy.
by mateodh on Nov 14, 2008 4:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i think id rather have the padres take
than peavy honestly
by FunkeeC on Nov 14, 2008 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
FJM is shutting down
I noticed they weren’t pushing anything out lately. Sad – gonna miss those guys.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 14, 2008 4:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I saw that, too
It’s too bad. Their site was hilarious and I looked forward to their posts daily.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Nov 14, 2008 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm beginning to think
a successful offseason means trading outfield surplus + AK7 for young middle infielders, and spending our extra dough on relievers, and perhaps another starter.
so trade for MIF, spend $ on pitching
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 14, 2008 4:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
ankiel and ak
for peavy and green, no money changes hands
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on Nov 14, 2008 9:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
N A Heartbeat!!
With Ankiel a pending FA we win big in that deal. You might could get Peavy with Ank in the deal (though I don’t think they want a guy in his last cost controlled season), but they sure as hell won’t take AK off our hands.
by cardzfanbub on Nov 15, 2008 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
punto
he couldnt be worse than iz2 offensively, and would prolly be better defensively
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.
by bigcardsfan5 on Nov 14, 2008 5:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
haha w/o looking at the stats
i seriously doubt that he is anywhere close to iz2 defensively
by FunkeeC on Nov 14, 2008 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
punto
after looking at the numbers, iz2 is a bit better defensively
punto, however, is a better hitter
in 2008 iz2 had an ops+ of 67, punto had an ops+ of 99
so it may be close, but i would take punto
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.
by bigcardsfan5 on Nov 14, 2008 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
let me add
this is if he would sign for 3 milliom or less, and short term
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.
by bigcardsfan5 on Nov 14, 2008 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just using the stats from the OP
Defensively Iz2 is 19.9 or rounded up to 20 as Danup did in his post. Punto is 3.9 or 4 rounded up. I wouldn’t call 16 runs close and obviously makes your claim that Punto would be better defensively silly
Offensively, obviously Punto would be better and yes he is 10 runs better (10.5 for Punto vs 0.3 for Iz2)
Which makes the comparison closer, but Iz2 still added 6 more runs than Punto did this year without hitting a lick.
by FunkeeC on Nov 14, 2008 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
iz2
didnt realize he was that much better defensivily
maybe punto for 2b
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.
by bigcardsfan5 on Nov 14, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget the FAs
turn one of our surplus OF or 3B into a MIF! Their production will be at least replacement value and won’t add to the payroll. Then we can go after what we need—pitching.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Nov 14, 2008 5:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I hope Scott Miller is right!
Supposedly the Braves are out of the Peavy derby!
http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/11697223
Get Escobar or Johnson quick!
by birdo rojo on Nov 14, 2008 6:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Successful offseason to me
1) Trade/Acquire a MIF (My preference would be to trade. I like Zobrist, Escobar, or Johnson)
2) SIgn a LOOGY (Affeldt or Ohman)
3) Sign a 5th SP (Looper or Lowe)
4) Don’t re-sign Iz2 (If acquired MIF is SS) or Floppy (If MIF is 2B)
On the issue of closing, I believe we should let Perez and Motte fight for the job (I can see Kinney being a wildcard here) and I wouldn’t mind re-signing Izzy to a base level incentive laden deal where he would start off in middle relief and potentially re-earn his closer’s role later in the year.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Nov 14, 2008 6:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Please no more Izzy
I used to like the taste of flavored Tums. But I was chugging them down by the bottle while Izzy was pitching last year. Now I can’t eat ‘em anymore. I thank him for his many good years, but it’s time to move on. How about if he gets his 300 elsewhere and RJ gets his 300 here?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Nov 14, 2008 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't buy it
that Izzy could go from a dominant closer in 07 to a terrible one in 08 without some injury. I think, if healthy we should give him a 1 year contract.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 14, 2008 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He'll never be healthy again
take him behind the barn and shoot him already.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 15, 2008 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
rays want hermida
cards do a three way deal. jeremy hermida from the marlins to the rays. cards send skip, duncan, stavinoa to marlins. rays send either sonnenstein(prefferably) or edwin jackson to cards. I’d also like to see the cards go after zobrist of the rays.
victim of the sixties
by victim of the sixties on Nov 14, 2008 8:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fun posts. That said, what are MIF alternatives? Crap shoot for large FA bux or trade away the farm?
Avoidance-avoidance dilemma? Mo’s in a tough one here with little in the way of local reinforcements coming to the resuce.
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Nov 14, 2008 8:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So far....
Interest in Holliday
Apparently would trade Ludwick or Ankiel for right player
A lot of speculation that they will go hard after lefty relief FA pitchers
Would like impact bat to protect Pujols (seems contradictory to trading Ludwick)
Low hanging fruit comment (maybe FA starting pitching after big boys sign)
Made offer to Lopez
Not interested in Furcal
Limited funds available but would increase payroll for the right player
Projected Moves:
#1. Sign FA 2B – probably Lopez. Not the most crucial move because they have Miles as a back-up plan.
#2. They trade for a SS because Furcal is to expensive and no other FA is the upgrade that they need (defense and offense). SS position is one of the most important positions and the weakest spot for the Cards. Ankiel and a prospect or two to Atlanta for Escobar.
#3. Moving Ankiel opens the door for Rasmus and leaves a hole in LF for a Mather, Duncan platoon.
#3. Good lefty relief pitcher FA will be signed – take your pick but Affeldt gets my vote.
#4. Lohose type starting pitcher will be signed late for protection.
by Warcard on Nov 15, 2008 12:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I got a chance to look
through the Bill James Handbook this evening and had to laugh out loud when I saw that there was only one player who made the bottom five in MLB for defensive +/- at not one, but two different positions over the last three years. That man was none other than Felipe Lopez who was a combined -54 as SS and 2B. Send him to the AL and let him DH already, the man is a menace with a glove in his hand. Oh wait, he can’t really hit much either.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Nov 15, 2008 1:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Late here
Let me just say, DanUp is a worthy replacement for lboros. Great reads, every single time he posts.
/end brown-nosing
And great quote from Ludwick. Very savvy. I’d be okay moving him for someone like Escobar, but I’ll be thrilled to see him in in the 2009 opening day lineup, and enjoy watching to see if he can replicate his 2008 performance.
Gimme some MI and LRP help and I’m excited about next year.
"I don't believe what I just saw!" ~ Jack Buck
by itsalemmon1019 on Nov 15, 2008 2:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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