Armistice Notes
Billy Beane is your unhinged friend, or Stanley Kubrick. The problem with weird Oakland trades, at this point, is that their GM has become an auteur. I can't critique a trade like this—Matt Holliday for Huston Street, Greg Smith, and Carlos Gonzalez, if you haven't heard—without thinking, in the back of my mind, that he must have an angle I can't even begin to consider. I don't want to pull the trigger on the critique equivalent of Mark Mulder, I mean.
Trying to put that out of my head, this is certainly a better trade for the A's than the Ludwick+ deal would have been for the Cardinals. Ludwick is considerably more valuable than Street, even if both players prove that 2008 was something of a fluke, and although Carlos Gonzalez has more upside than Schumaker and Greg Smith a better resumé than Mitchell Boggs I don't think either player's enough of a sure thing to offset the difference in value between the centerpieces.
Fun sportswriter test for 2009: Matt Holliday is about to move from one of the best hitter's parks in baseball to one of the worst. A shockingly bad sportswriter might put his (presumably) depressed 2009 numbers down to simple bad play. An average sportswriter will probably mention that he's come down from what Baseball Prospectus used to call Planet Coors, and a downturn is to be expected. A good sportswriter will notice that to play in Oakland, lately, is to play in baseball circa 1992, but with less form-fitting uniforms. (Seriously, Frank Thomas hit .263/.364/.387 for an OPS+ of 106. On the Rockies, meanwhile, Ian Stewart hit .259/.349/.455, which was good for an OPS+ of 103. Matt Holliday's agent has spent the better part of a day breathing into a paper bag.)
Juan Encarnacion non-update: the forgotten man files for free agency in what is presumably a formality for a guy who, per Goold, cannot yet drive a car, let alone hit a baseball.
I was a staunch Juancar backer because he was fun to watch, I think, more than anything else. A guy who read Science of Hitting front to back and put up a .278/.317/.443 line might not have gotten any backup from me, but Juan's swing defied every rule of hitting ever shouted out of a Little League dugout, seemingly intentionally. His eyes flew off the ball. His back leg collapsed like a broken picture frame during his follow-through. His swing path was to be chosen at random just before each pitch. He spun himself around no matter what he was trying to do with the ball. In the Hot Stove season I am all about getting the team as good and as perfect as it can get, but when they are actually playing the games and I'm watching them I'll take something like Juan Encarnacion's swing, to break up the monotony.
So the defense—which I still insist was excellent, betrayed by his loping strides, some truly awful miscues, and his inexpressively bored face—buoying his value up around that of an average, more conventional corner outfielder was really a secondary part of my Juan Encarnacion fandom. It was a matter of enjoying watching the guy, and knowing that a lot of people didn't for reasons that I felt were unwarranted. (That's how I picked Ray Lankford as my all-time favorite, when I was younger. I was never an underdog guy so much as an undervalued-dog guy.)
I'm amazed at how under the radar this all was and remains. I've never seen the clip—I missed the game, for some reason, and wasn't about to watch it after I heard about its severity—and it seems like ESPN or the Best Damned Gruesome Career-Ending Injuries Countdown Period aren't going to make me channel surf away from it any time soon. Some combination of his marginal status as a baseball player and his aloofness as a baseball figure—not living in the States, not speaking to teammates and certainly not the press, not making a scene off the field—has served to make him and the extraordinarily rare nature of the end of his career invisible. It's not that I'm confused at the fact that people ten years from now probably won't remember this happening—it's that I probably won't remember it happening.
Jose is interviewing for the Seattle job. This is really weird, for me. It seems like ever since Jose Oquendo became the third base coach his eventual rise to Cardinals manager has been one of the most established bits of common knowledge among in-the-know Cardinals fans. All I can say is that if you believe in the idea of the Secret Weapon as a sort of Dave Duncan for infield defense you have to hope that he gets a chance to work with Brett Wallace before he gets a top job somewhere else.
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190 comments
Comments
No hurt for Jose to keep his options open
Just like in the business world, sometimes people interview for jobs that they don’t really want or know that they have a good shot at getting.
by saladdays on Nov 11, 2008 10:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Long-term plan
Seems to me I’ve been hearing that Tony, Dunc and Jocketty were actively touting Oquendo for every available job, which I took to mean
a) They wanted to help the guy move up the ladder, and
b) They’d like to see him make his rookie mistakes somewhere else before taking over the Queen of Clubs
by alberich on Nov 11, 2008 10:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Meant to say
. . . I’ve been hearing for about three years that &c
by alberich on Nov 11, 2008 10:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
So where will Holliday be traded to next August
and how many prospects will Beane get?
by sdrone on Nov 11, 2008 11:02 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'd say he stays
for the draft picks unless he’s getting a haul that would beat the draft class he’s eyeing.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 11, 2008 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Juan-E
I will admit that I found myself frustrated watching Juan Encarnacion play. To me it always looked like he was trying to swat a bee out of the air every time he swung.
HOWEVER…that injury he suffered was a truly tragic incident. The man was not only denied a chance to play the game that I presume he loves, he will probably have to live with the effects of it for the rest of his life. When I was a freshman in high school, I was struck in the face by a line drive. I was exceedingly lucky; the ball struck me on the facial bone, which is between the nose and the cheek bone. I fractured that bone, but the incident could have been far worse. As soon as I saw what happened to Encarnacion I had flashbacks. I just think how wierd that whole thing was, and how lucky I was, and how unlucky he was.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 11, 2008 11:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Lazy Juan
Encarnacion was LAZY!!!!!!!!! And I am glad to see him go. And as for his eye injury…it wouldn’t have happened if he wasn’t too lazy and aloof to keep an eye on the ball at all times. I played baseball for 15 years, I’ve had close calls but never got hit like that because I PAYED ATTENTION!!!!!
by Cardsray on Nov 11, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
it could have happened to anyone really. still kind of in denial that I read that
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 11, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It happened so fast
and the on-deck circles are so close, it’s hard to say if he would’ve been able to move quickly enough. AND, if he had moved, it might have hit him somewhere else, even on his face. No one can really say what might have been. And after Mike Coolbaugh took a foul to the neck – a fatal blow – it’s easy to see how Enc’s injury could’ve been even worse.
by spants on Nov 11, 2008 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you seen the video of him getting hit?
Even if you were paying attention, you’d have to have some pretty damn good reflexes to avoid that ball. Have you noticed since then that the Cards moved the on-deck circle back and but netting around the seats closest to the dugout? Shit happens and Juan being lazy had nothing to do with that. I don’t care who you are, you never want to see someone lose their career and possibly their quality of life because of something like that.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Nov 11, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
That ball was going way to fast for any human to get out of the way.
That comment is out of line, plain and simple.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 11, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lboros kicked the last person like you off this board
disagreeing with juan’s play or style is one thing. saying the injury was his fault and that you are glad to see him go is classless and, quite simply, unacceptable.
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Nov 11, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
very good point
i was one of the people calling for that guys dismissal from this forum, and lboros did just that as soon as he saw his post
as someone said here, if you didnt like juan the player, fine, but being glad that happened, or wishing it on ANYONE is very uncouth, and that is being very mild
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.
by bigcardsfan5 on Nov 11, 2008 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Same here
leading up to the injury, that guy (who will remain nameless, although i still remember his name) made it perfectly clear his feelings toward Juan and it was nothing but ridiculous and disgusting. When he made that comment, some wanted him to explain it but I too was extremely vocal about not accepting an apology from the guy because it wouldn’t have been sincere. He had documented his feelings toward Juan numerous times and then put the icing on his own cake with his final remark. Good riddance.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there's no room for this sort of thing
on this blog. It’s not only wrong-headed and tactless but factually incoherent—thousands of people have played baseball over a hundred and sixty years, and only one got hit like that, so while I commend you for your ability to pay attention I think it’s difficult to chalk this up to Juan Encarnacion being the laziest person who’s ever played baseball, not to mention totally unsupported by any kind of evidence and just repellent to read.
lf I’m reading your profile right this is your first comment. As you can tell from the responses here, this is not the kind of stuff we traffic in. You can say you’re glad Juan’s gone, because a lot of people are, but inferring personality traits from watching him on TV and then using them to blame him for a random, terrible injury is not the way to do it.
by DanUpBaby on Nov 11, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
is it wrong of me
to want to go all anal on his ass? sigh. I even had some grammar and dictionary lines to throw in for good measure. Damn Community Guidelines.
So I’ll say the following instead :
May your days not include such a painful and life altering event that Juan has been faced with. I’m sorry you don’t approve of the “ballplayer” Juan, but the man behind the bat has shown true character before and after the event happened. Something you may need to really look into.
If you consider yourself part of Cardinals Nation, please don’t. Thanks.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 11, 2008 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you could get medieval on his
well, you know
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 11, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What the heck is this?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/11/matt-holliday-t.html#comments
Luddy for Street? No thanks x100. I haven’t even heard that mentioned. If we wouldn’t move him for Holliday, even with some extras, why move him for a reliever? Boo.
Skip for Street? Yea. Skip and a lesser spect for Street? Probably so. Luddy for Street? Only if Mo is high.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Nov 11, 2008 11:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Saw that and it makes no sense.
“Dangling” a rotten deal to us is not really even worth reporting. Did they “dangle” Duchscherer for Pujols as well?
by Red in Chicago on Nov 11, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully Mo is still turned off by the idea of working with the Rockies (crosses fingers)
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 11, 2008 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haven’t seen it either, and actually agree with you.
Highest I’d go would be Skip + low grade P. (Read: Not Boggs)
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 11, 2008 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was just about to post this...
seriously, what the hell?
by LukeMP1186 on Nov 11, 2008 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've said it a bunch
it would not surprise me to see Street wearing a Cards’ uni next season. For Ludwick, that’s insane. But it won’t surprise me if he is quickly spun to the Cards. In fact, it won’t surprise me to find out that those conversations Mo was having w/ Dan O’Dowd were about Street and not about Holliday at all.
by chuckb on Nov 11, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
skip we can replace with ease. luddy is a whole different story
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 11, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so.
Could be wrong. Just scanned through rotoworld and didn’t see anything about an injury. Although he did pitch his last game on September 22, so I have no idea.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 10:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wasnt street
throwing 80s toward the end of last year and out of the closers role or somethign?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Nov 11, 2008 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, Chuckb did a post a while ago about Street's velocity and he reposted a link to it yesterday.
Street was actually throwing harder toward the end of the season and I think even with his velocity dipping it was not more than 1 MPH over the couse of the year.
by ICbirdfan on Nov 11, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whats funny Is I actually read that and forgot about it, until now!
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Nov 11, 2008 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be a horrible trade
There is NO WAY Street is worth Ludwick. If this happened then Mo is a chump. I would rather they spend some $$ to get Hoffman.
If Mo is so hellbent on trading Ludwick…I hope he has a plan to replace his production on the team. Because I don’t think Rasmus will do it. Plus the pressure on Rasmus to produce would be too much for the kid I think. I’m not against trading Luddy if we can get a big piece to help this team contend…but Street is NOT that piece.
We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
by KYCards on Nov 11, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
in keeping in mind the above
street hasn’t exactly been ’06 form the past two years, nor will he be all that cheap
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 11, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm ok with it.
Like everyone else I’m sure they hate the idea of seeing S.W. gone. But over the many, many years he’s invested here he’s earned his keep twice, three times over. The M’s are in really bad shape, from top down and would on the right track should they get someone like him. I’d rather see him manage somewhere else than I would see him not happy here.
As far as the A’s trade, I think it’s a brilliant move on their part. No matter how cynical I get I can’t see Street being compared to Mulder.
I see a lethargic offense taking a chance on someone who has been pretty solid with his bat through the years while improving plate discipline along the way.
I see the A’s getting someone from the NL who’s going to draw interest, and possibly some extra attendance since he’s unknown in the AL West circles.
I see a team who had a solid ’08 campaign where the farm system was stocked and then grew some value and where pitching developed a year on.
I see a team who has excellent drafting over the years getting two draft picks for less than 10m (when you include the cost of the players leaving). They probably already have an idea on who the draft class represents.
I see a team who could compete for the AL West, Angels aren’t going to be that lucky next year and the other two teams aren’t really factors.
I don’t see them flipping him at deadline next year unless the prospects are better than what they would get in the draft class, it’s possible, but unlikely.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 11, 2008 11:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
clippings
1. I heard somewhere here that Wallace and Oquendo will intersect in the Winter Leagues… true/false?
2. Posts of note: We have real pressing needs. So is Mo getting played?
3. For the past couple of weeks, the Cardinals have been playing horribly in the national hot-stove coverage. Headline: We’re not doing anything! I don’t take it that seriously, but I don’t like anything that decreases our leverage, or rushes a deal.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 11, 2008 11:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
1.) Wallace is in Arizona, Oquendo is in Venezuela Winter League (if I recall correctly).
2.) We do, and No.
3.) I think how we’ve acted in the hot stove coverage has done the opposite, increased our leverage without rushing a deal.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 11, 2008 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks
1. Thought that bit sounded odd.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 11, 2008 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jose is managing in Puerto Rico right now
for Carolina. Yadi, Brian Anderson, PJ Walters and…one more from the Cards org, I think?…are playing for him.
by meat on Nov 11, 2008 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
aha got it
Read the wrong name. Two minutes to scan VEB is not enough!
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 11, 2008 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Luis Mateo
18yr old 2B
"Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win---- Bobby Knight"
by Knighttime on Nov 11, 2008 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sample
3. Gist of the coverage. Plus ridiculous ‘this just in’ stuff along the lines of ‘Cards back out.’ (How is this priority news? Whatever.)
Regardless of whether or not this is true (and whether the deals are worth it in the first place), the perception is out there that we’re not going to pull the trigger on anything. And it’s being reported every few days in the national media. Does this really give the team an edge? I’m not quite understanding it.
"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT
by Yadi2Second on Nov 11, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was written by phil rogers....
meaning it would be best used by prinitng it out and wrapping it around a toilet paper roll
Seriously, if a Phil Rogers column is hurting our leverage in trades, then we are in great shape for the long haul because there are a lot of seriously dumb GMs out there
In short….relax….It’s November 11th
by moser34 on Nov 11, 2008 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
This is poorly researched as well…How hard is it to find out that Jaime Garcia has had TJ’s and will be out all season???
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Nov 11, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rogers puts down the Cards because he's a Cubs fan.
I hate to break it to you Phil… but your Cubbies continued the tradition of loosing in the playoffs…since he wants to talk about traditions.
We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
by KYCards on Nov 11, 2008 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
amen!
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 11, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One more thing about that Roger's tripe
What the heck does he mean about a “tradition” of Cardinals GM’s not making big moves?
Was Phil asleep during the Jocketty years?
Does he forget that he traded for Edmonds, Rolen, McGwire, Renteria, and Mulder?
Or to go back even further does he not remember our trades for Ozzie Smith or Willie McGee or us stealing Lou Brock from his favorite team?
Just because his team (The Cubs) has decided to go for broke the past few years to win a Championship (which still hasn’t happened by the way) doesn’t make them a team with a great GM “tradition”. I find it beyond funny that he takes a dig as some so called “tradition” of Cardinals not pulling the trigger on any big moves.
Phil your team has a long way to go before they have any “traditions” to be proud of. Because the Cubs ‘tradition’ right now is falling apart in October.
We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.
by KYCards on Nov 11, 2008 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lou Brock was a pretty big move too
I don’t think anybody really listens to Phil. People read him to find out what crazy thing he’ll write next.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 11, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and somehow I missed that you mentioned Lou
Phil is still a dolt though.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 11, 2008 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
by "big moves", does he mean roster- and payroll-killing miserable contracts
that will provide talent for about two seasons and then when players age and become less effective make it impossible for the club to function for six or seven seasons in a row?
we’ve really only pulled off a couple of those, nothing like Chicago.
by tom s. on Nov 12, 2008 2:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding number 3.
The Free Agency Period hasn’t even begun.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jaun's Injury
I was in the Stadium that night. I know I’ll remeber that injury forever. There was just a haunting silence in the Stadium that night. It was like everyone knew that this meant bad news for Jaun.
I just hope the guy can lead a normal life some day. Also it would be nice if he could somehow get an exemption for the MLB pension plan. I don’t think he quite had the 10 years needed to qualify.
The thought that I have is that the season is over. And that everybody in the game; a fan, a coach, a player, a manager, front office, scouts...surrender. They say, "that's enough," especially after a game like this. But then Christmas comes, New Years, contracts are signed, trades are made, free agents are signed; and then baseball, like the rose beneath the April snow will force it's way to the front again. And we'll have the fever once more.
- The immortal Jack Buck
by Jack618 on Nov 11, 2008 11:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure
he’s saved at least a few million dollars to live off of.
by spants on Nov 11, 2008 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure you're right...
The thought that I have is that the season is over. And that everybody in the game; a fan, a coach, a player, a manager, front office, scouts...surrender. They say, "that's enough," especially after a game like this. But then Christmas comes, New Years, contracts are signed, trades are made, free agents are signed; and then baseball, like the rose beneath the April snow will force it's way to the front again. And we'll have the fever once more.
- The immortal Jack Buck
by Jack618 on Nov 11, 2008 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well he did make quite
a bit last year and that was post injury, so at least (though it doesn’t mean much) he has quite a bit of coin coming in knowing the injury was there.
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 11, 2008 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You've never seen the footage? Lucky you. I wish I could say the same.
It still gives me chills. The good news is that he did play in 11 seasons, and was on the 15-day, rather than 60-day, DL at the very beginning of another (2008). However, the first two were not “full” seasons, and I don’t know whether that means he qualifies or not. Let’s hope he does.
by StanTheManFan on Nov 11, 2008 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
that footage is just crazy. I’m sure Grit still feels bad about it too.
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 11, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would Beane possibly be dealing
for Holliday in the expectation of two picks after next season or the ability to deal him at the deadline for more prospects. Billy Beane just likes kids. He’s like a crazy dynasty fantasy owner who wants to own all the top propects in the hope that in 2 or 3 years he’ll have an army of youth. But then he deals them for even shinier new prospects.
by The Gottfather on Nov 11, 2008 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
beane unloads mid level talent
for an impact player. his budget takes on 7 or 8 mil this season for holliday and future compensation, above the 3 roster spots he traded away. thats good player/$ value for any club this year.
outstanding trade for A’s fans. holliday really impacts their roster. about time they get to enjoy being “buyers”.
by ball in play on Nov 11, 2008 12:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Street is more than mid-level talent -- IF HEALTHY.
The fact that Beane pulled the trigger anyway should make Mo, and any other major-league GM, flee in terror from any deal to take him off the Rookie’s hands. Damaged Goods Alert!
by StanTheManFan on Nov 11, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
streets 08 is very comparale to franklins
with a greater health risk and higher salary. why bother ?
by ball in play on Nov 11, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just for fun.....
Did Lopez, Miles, or AK have enough innings in the OF last year to qualify for any defensive metrics? I know the sample size is small, but I’d be curious as to how they actually did.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Nov 11, 2008 12:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
All the MIs
did fine in the OF except Lopez. He was a very small sample size worth of poor.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Nov 11, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+/-
FL: -3
AM: +2
AK: +2
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." -Rogers Hornsby
by nomar34 on Nov 11, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Any numbers for
Ryan
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Nov 11, 2008 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Jose Oquendo is indeed...
the Dave Duncan of infield defense, and Dave Duncan is the Dave Duncan of pitching coaches, and some guy named Tony LaRussa is the manager…
Do the Cardinals have one of the premiere coaching staffs in all of baseball?
by SethCity on Nov 11, 2008 1:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think so.....
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Nov 11, 2008 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they do
although there’s always room for improvement…
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 11, 2008 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe so, yes.
The problem with the team is lack of raw materials. Something’s wrong with the scouting team.
by Red in Chicago on Nov 11, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Our coaches certainly lead the league in mysticism
Duncan is the magic pitcher fixer-upper.
Oquendo is the “secret weapon.”
TLR…well, he’s the creepy old wizard.
by mojowo11 on Nov 11, 2008 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was a pretty amazing trade for the A's IMO
I didn’t like the Ludwick deal, but I think Street is not who he used to be, Gonzalez is likely to be a bust, and the other guy is a no-name. Either they’ll keep him all season and go to playoffs, he leaves and they get 2 nice draft picks, or they can dump him to some team in contention mid season for more than they gave up if they are out of it. Only downside is they have to pay Holliday.
by TheBirds on Nov 11, 2008 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
ESPN
Just now announcing: Tim Lincecum 2008 NL Cy Young.
Congrats! He was the most deserving candidate IMO
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Nov 11, 2008 2:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Your mom likes Albert Pujols" - Happy Joe
by fatbellyjefferson on Nov 11, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome!
To bad it was wasted on such a poor team
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Nov 11, 2008 11:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trevor Hoffman
How would people feel about making a run at signing Mr. Hoffman.
For the downfalls, simply put he is really old. He also had his worst season last year which doesnt bode well for next year. I believe, but not for certain, that his velocity (what little velocity he actually had) dropped a little making the changeup less effective.
However the benefit of Mr. Hoffman. He is not a creation of Petco. His ERA was actually 2 runs lower on the road last year. However his main benefit would be his leadership and experience. Next year it appears we are going to have a very young bullpen with Perez, Motte, Kinney, and McClellan. Hoffman was be a very valuable stabilizing force down there and a great teacher. It seemed like every year the Padres had a young guy come up and dominate in their bullpen. I am confident that Hoffman played a large role in this trend.
Essentially, it comes down to what he costs. I would go much over 6 mil. for next year with a possible 2 year mutual option. He doesnt even have to be the closer next year. He would play a large role on next years team even if he doesnt dominate.
by stl3bagger on Nov 11, 2008 2:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent idea. IMHO.
Bridge to Young Pitcher. Short-term, low-risk, meets Tony’s criteria for a closer, etc. But there are lots of options at closer now. Among the names that are/could be available: (Fuentes, Rodriguez, Izzy, Sherrill, Putz, Jenks(?), Hoffman, Street, Wood(?).) Many ways to go.
by Red in Chicago on Nov 11, 2008 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
*if*
we go for a closer instead of staying internal, it should be after filling other needs in my opinion. no point in getting dogged down in closer talks, but i don’t mind getting one if we’re ok elsewhere
One Century down, next on its way. Cardinals '09 : Preserving the Cubs tradition.
by AdjustedExpectations on Nov 11, 2008 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
IF we have the MIF taken care of AND know who our 5th starter is AND have the money left over, then I have no problem going out and finding an established closer. I don’t feel an “impact bat” is a priority. Our team’s avg slash line last year was .281/.350/.433.
I believe either Perez or Motte can get the job done next year, but I wouldn’t mind having a Hoffman-type around to mentor them, if he is cheap.
Patiently awaiting the day Colby Rasmus does this: .275/.381/.551/.932, 29HR, in St. Louis...
by RunninRedbird on Nov 11, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not thrilled at the idea.
Acknowledging that there are personality differences, I’d see this signing as somewhat parallel to the chance taken on Troy Percival a year ago, and frankly, that did not achieve the desired result. He got some useful innings, but as for being “a very valuable stabilizing force… and a great teacher,” that didn’t happen. Nor could it be expected to: the guys he might have been “stabilizing” were also competing against him for a job. Meanwhile, the necessity of building a real bullpen remains, just buried under yet one more veteran band-aid.
by StanTheManFan on Nov 11, 2008 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If they're going to get a closer
And it sounds like will, I like this idea better than most. At least he doesn’t truly stand in the way of anything internal long term. He might still be able to get the job done. The interesting thing about him is that everything statistically is pretty close to in line with his recent history, except for allowing 8 homers. Hits, BB’s, K’s were all the same. Still murder on righthanders.
A couple of things are interesting about those homers. Contrary to what you might think, 7 of those 8 came at home. I don’t know if that is a good or bad thing, but it is interesting. What definitely is encouraging is that he only allowed 1 homer in the second half of the season. He was pretty much his usual self in the second half, although it was in limited opportunities.
This may be worth pursuing. If Mo is considering signing K-Rod, Fuentes, et al, to multi year deals, or if he is considering trading for a closer, I hope he makes this call first.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 11, 2008 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Juan Ecarnasada was fun to watch & played excellent D?
really?
really?
ooooooookkkk
if his D was truly excellent, then every double down the right field line wouldn’t have automatically turned into a stand up triple. even for the players who’s speed could be clocked with a calendar instead of a stop watch. what happened to the guy was beyond tragic. and it’s very sad that no one but his agent can talk to him. after doing what i’ve had to do for the past 6 years, i kind of understand that. but it’s still very sad.
i’m not going to dog the guy. any more. sure he almost never came through in a clutch situation. sure his D was less to be desired. sure his swing defied all logic & reason. sure he drove almost everyone here nuts. but that didn’t mean he deserved to have what happen to him happen to him. no one deserves that. not even a guy who wears those stupid little bears on his uniform. i hope the guy can sometime soon have something close to a normal life. everyone deserves to have that.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 11, 2008 3:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he said he played excellent D
just average D is what I read.
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Nov 11, 2008 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think he did, didn't he?
“So the defense—which I still insist was excellent”
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 11, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I did and do think it was excellent.
I think the disconnect is that he didn’t look engaged on plays that he couldn’t possibly have altered, but when I watched him I saw a guy who made the easy plays look easy, the difficult plays look easy, and the plays he should have gotten to but didn’t look terrible. But that’s just my eyes, I can’t justify it.
As for being fun to watch, he was frustrating but I’m speaking in the strict not-boring sense. John Gall could probably have put up the same numbers but his home runs would not have been nearly as inexplicable or entertaining.
by DanUpBaby on Nov 11, 2008 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brekkie in the clutch
Instant Breakfast was actually quite clutch in 2007. That year he was 3rd on the team in WPA, behind Pujols & Duncan. He was pitiful in low leverage situations, mediocre in mid-level situations, and quite good when it really mattered. Add it all up and it doesn’t look real impressive, but he helped out the team more than most people thought.
That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.
by Solanus on Nov 11, 2008 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
curse your numbers & stats
you all make me look like a jackass. and trust me, i don’t need the help.
i really don’t remember him being that clutch. all i remember is the pitiful K’s on balls in the dirt with runners on, the inning ending GIDP’s, all the doubles turned into triples. and don’t forget about the ulcers. oh God the ulcers,,,,
is it safe to say he was an average player? i think that was his biggest crime. we simply expected too much from the guy, and when he let us down, we/i held it against him too harshly.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 11, 2008 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and it seems like every year people collectively pick out a player
to collectively be annoyed with for sort of minimal reasons. it’s something that I never quite understood about Cardinals fans. Ah well.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 11, 2008 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's more of that
St. Louis inferiority complex shining through. We just have to have a scapegoat. (I think that’s everybody, though.)
by spants on Nov 11, 2008 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i dont get it either. he really shouldn't bare the brunt of our collective wrath
but wow, he sure did piss a lot of people off. i feel bad for the guy, i really do.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 11, 2008 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Juan actually outperformed his career stats but to some it still wasn’t good enough. Oh, and he “didn’t look like he cared”.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i never bought into the whole he looked like he didn't care crap
that’s just dumb uneducated basis coming to the surface. the dude could be as smooth as Hollywood at times in the OF at times.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 11, 2008 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he was just introverted, quiet and shied away from the spotlight and attention.
And last time I checked, that ain’t a crime and it doesn’t affect your ability to play baseball.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Juan Encarnacion = Adam Kennedy
Pretty much what you thought he would be would you signed him but still the scapegoat for everything
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 11, 2008 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much
although Kennedy almost created his own trouble by sucking so darn hard in 2007.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we only paid kennedy
about 4 mil a year. we really shouldn’t have expected him to do much at all. In fact this year he was actually a plus for us because of how good his defense was.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 12, 2008 11:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Outpeforming his career numbers is fine
the problem is that no one wanted him. He replaced a fan favorite in Reggie Sanders or a future HOF’er (I hope) in Larry Walker. He came on the heels of the entire Cardinals fanbase collectively laughing at the Cubs for signing Jacque Jones. Then the Cardinals go and sign his doppleganger.
Encarnacion was in an impossible situation. The fans didn’t want him here and everything he did wrong (which he seemed to do a lot of) was magnified tenfold.
Remember, this was a team that had played in a WS and just missed the WS the year before. The Cardinals cut payroll by $4 M the next year and the team was in a free fall after May. Who was the big free agent bat they brought in? Juan. So, he was the first to bear the brunt of the frustration.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 11, 2008 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then boo Jocketty.
I never got the rage at the guy who was doing an average job at an average salary.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 11, 2008 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They signed him in 06
Before they won the world series. He was a big part of that team as a consistent hitter along with only a couple others that year. He didn’t look great in the field but numbers show that he was actually pretty good. Plus he was only getting 5 mil a year, same as piniero, so played right about his value maybe a little more.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 12, 2008 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
pretty sure
he was referring to the 04 world series.
his injury did clear the way for ludwick to (eventually) become an everyday player. just imagine all the innings ludwick would’ve missed because juan was out there instead.
i wish it hadn’t happened due to the terrible injury though, and the cards had just managed to trade him somehow. maybe throw him in with edmonds in the san diego trade in return for another prospect. pretty unlikely though.
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on Nov 12, 2008 1:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it wasnt that...well I think part of it was
it was the fact that we wanted/needed an impact player and we got league average-ish
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Nov 11, 2008 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not his fault
like Valatan said, boo Jocketty.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, boo to jockety, then. I didnt put the guy down.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Nov 11, 2008 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember a clutch post-season double--maybe even a triple?
Juan hit a pitch to the opposite field and dumpted in the right field corner. It was a pretty crucial hit in that game, if I remember correctly.
I also remember somebody posting a list of his OPS (or maybe it was OPS+) year by year, and it was ridiculously consistent. In other words, there was no reason for us to expect Juan to be better than he gave us, which was dependable averageness (for a RF I believe—don’t quote me). He had a few problems—he wasn’t going to dramatically outperform his career norms, something we almost expect because of the lovey-dovey St. Louis awesome fans atmosphere. He was quiet, and not noticeably enthusiastic, so he didn’t “love the game” or whatever. And he wasn’t a star. He was not bad. But he wasn’t extraordinary either, and sometimes that is perceived as not being good enough (when in reality it’s exactly good enough. You want at least average production at any position you can find it, but try for above average).
by mattybobo on Nov 12, 2008 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember that triple too
wasn’t that the awesome triple that gave us the even more awesomer “Captain Kirk yelling for Juan” picture?
Maybe not, but I a gonna remember it that way.
Get well, Juan, get well!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Nov 12, 2008 6:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My Farovirte Encarnacion moment
I never saw him talk once on camera, and when we won the World Series, Hayes went over and yanked him from a corner. He then asked him a question, but before Juan could answer, he was completely doused with alcohol and couldn’t talk even if he wanted to.
I want to know how he could hit his crazy home runs. It looked like a weak fly ball and it would go 450 feet!!!
For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!
by miniboscorino on Nov 11, 2008 4:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
JuanEnc was a very big man
He didn’t look it on tv, but man was he big. He was tall and had shoulders like Wellemeyer. I remember the first time I saw him in person. It was during batting practice and I was like, “Hmm. There’s Enc. Who’s that little guy standing next to him?” And it was Scott Rolen. And the thing is, Rolen is actually bigger than Enc but his physique was just that much more impressive in person.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw him up close when we got to walk on the field once
Encarnacion appeared broader and larger as you said, he made Albert look tiny.
For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!
by miniboscorino on Nov 11, 2008 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOVED
the juancion narrative. really an enigma of sorts, often a disappointing one in my memory, but the numbers always seemed to be there for him at the end of the season. quiet, unfortunate exit from a guy who entered st. louis with reasonably high expectations and a hefty contract. another remnant of the declining jocketty era, escaping the blame mulder hoists on his shoulders with certainly the most outlandish freak baseball accident i’ve ever witnessed. wish him all the best, both in and out of baseball.
by gsjefferies93 on Nov 11, 2008 4:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Weird karma: Herb Score died today
Another victim of a freak baseball injury.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Nov 11, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
meant to post the ESPN link above
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3695975&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Nov 11, 2008 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Juan was mediocre
I can’t say I’m glad that he was hurt, that is tragic. However, I am glad that he is gone. He was the definition of mediocre. Mediocre defense, offense, effort. The guy didn’t even bother to show up to the World Series parade. I can buy into the aloof, not-want-to-be-in-the-public-eye thing, but seriously. The friggin’ World Series parade?
I don’t know any knowledgeable baseball person that can say they were “excited” when he was signed. I certainly had no expectation other than that he would be an overpaid replacement level outfielder.
Juan Encarnacion on his best day couldn’t add a splash of Downy to a laundry load of Ray Lankford’s jockstraps.
by farley503 on Nov 11, 2008 4:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
"Juan Encarnacion on his best day couldn’t add a splash of Downy to a laundry load of Ray Lankford’s jockstraps."
Yeah, I thought this went without saying.
by DanUpBaby on Nov 11, 2008 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ray The K
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Nov 11, 2008 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
of for craps sake! his daughter was very very ill. that's why he could not attend the parade.
i wish people would get off the guys case for that. i was/am one of his biggest detractors, but the dude thought his daughter was going to die. doesn’t that give him a good excuse to skip a stupid parade?
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 11, 2008 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard that
it was a sprained wrist. But either way, he’s entitled to be the dad he wants to be, no matter how serious or trivial the injury. If he went home for a lesser injury, then I’m even more impressed with Enc’s character.
by spants on Nov 11, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jim hayes asked him about why he skipped the parade at spring training in 07
and he said it was because he thought his daughter was dying. she got very sick very quickly was was rushed to the hospital at night. and he left that night only telling Tony, Walt and a couple players why he wouldn’t be at the parade.
it was on FSNMW, but i’m sure that video is long gone by now. i’m sure anyone can send jim an email & he’ll tell them all about it. the cat’s cool like that.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 11, 2008 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never
held it against him. He helped bring a championship to St. Louis. I could give a shit if he came to the parade. I never held it against him.
by spants on Nov 11, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And for the record
The Secret Weapon skipped the parade too.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
for a job interview right?
or was one of his kids going to college?
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 11, 2008 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
His daugher was visiting a college.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's cool.
As soon as these men had the need to be with their families they were there.
by spants on Nov 12, 2008 1:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oquendo wasn't benched in the playoffs
not that I blame Juan for missing the parade but the perception was that for the second time in his career he was benched in the postseason for not playing well and then he missed the team celebration.
by Hardcore Legend on Nov 11, 2008 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't remember it at first
after the parade the story was that he went back to the DR to purchase some land. later it came out that he went back to take care of his son, but the fact that he also skipped the parade after the marlins won (and after he was also benched in the playoffs) makes me question how true that is. he certainly didn’t tell TLR.
Not that it matters. Parade, yawn, etc.
the enemy's gate is down.
by SleepyCA on Nov 12, 2008 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i would have bet the farm it was his daughter
thanks for finding those links Sleepy. i don’t know how you do it. i gave up after 5min of googling not finding what i was looking for.
i still stand by that he told TLR why he left. although i was wrong about his daughter,,,,
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 12, 2008 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Got some bad news today
Found out today that Orson Scott Card is a bit of a douche
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 12, 2008 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and the winner of the daily, straight out of left field comment, goes to,,,,,,,,
FimtotheFlam!
congratulations Flim!
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 12, 2008 12:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am a lefty
Scratched Chin and Ponders
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 12, 2008 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he's referring to my signature
I can definitely see where you are coming from, politically. But he’s a great author.
the enemy's gate is down.
by SleepyCA on Nov 12, 2008 1:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Lankford fan too
I had some big arguments with some of my good friends that felt completely the opposite about Ray, and they had as much conviction about their perspective as I did in mine. I look back at it now that some time has passed, and I am still pretty sure I was right. I think he makes the short list of all time underrated Cardinals.
Yeah he struck out a ton, and often at some bad times. But he had a good eye. He drew a lot of walks. When he whiffed, he often whiffed on some juicy pitches. On the other side of that coin…when he hit the ball, he crushed it. Between 1994 and 2001, had never had an OPS below 116. As a point of reference, Rick Ankiel had an OPS of 119 this year. At minimum, Ray Lankford was very useful player for a long time. And people forget just how good he was at his peak.
In 1997, he went .295/.411/.585 (OPS+ of 159). In 1998, he went .293/.391/.540 (OPS+ of 143). Lou Brock never put up anything close to that. Neither did Curt Flood. Or Willie McGee.
I’m not saying I’d take Lankford over those guys. I’m just saying he was a lot better than people think. All because he struck out a lot. And because he played on a lot of awful ballclubs.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 11, 2008 5:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
if your namesake were to go out there and have Ray Lankford’s career I would be thrilled.
by DanUpBaby on Nov 11, 2008 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yep
and I really do think that Ray suffered, more than anything, from playing for some of the worst cardinal teams in recen tmemory. It’s easy to remember Ozzie hitting that home run in 1987, and it’s easy to remember Bruce Sutter finishing the ‘82 series (I don’t, I was two, but it would be easy), and it’s definitely easy to remember that Wainwright curveball to Beltran, or Morris’s showdowns against Schill.
But when he was at his peak, Lankford never had a chance for any moments like that, and then he got badly overshadowded by McGwire (I think half of the anger at Lankford was that he wasn’t McGwire). Maybe if we had someone other than Donovan Osborne pitching in that game seven in ’96, we might have different memories of Ray.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 11, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As you can tell from my name
I’m a big Ray fan. Huge, actually. He’s probably the main reason I like baseball as much as I do. I get what you are saying about Ray playing on terrible Cardinal teams. For me, that’s what made him stand out. He was soooo much better than everyone else on the team that I couldn’t help but love him.
On a slightly tangential point, my freshman year of college, a buddy of mine tried to call a friend but misdialed the number and ended up calling Ray Lankford, who was none too happy about speaking to some random college kid. The funny thing is that Ray kept wanting to know how he got the number, and wanted my buddy to be “a grown ass man” and tell him who gave it to him. He simply refused to believe it was a misdial, and was kind of a dick about it. Then again, we did call back twice just because we were so dumbfounded that we actually happened across Ray Lankford’s cell phone number. I would probably be annoyed at us too.
by Ray Lankford on Nov 11, 2008 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that is awesome
really freaking awesome
Ray was great. he really was. back in the day, when the Cards were an awful embarrassment to the game we love, he was the Cards one bright spot. i hope one day most fans give the guy the respect & admiration he deserves.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 11, 2008 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, him and Ozzie
Ozzie was still around back then. And Tewksberry’s ridiculously extreme peak.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 11, 2008 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but yes
1989-1995 was a disaster of a wasteland
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 11, 2008 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
right, but Ozzie was on the downhill side of his career
and many people thought larkin had taken his spot as the best SS in the game.
how could i forget about Tewk? geesh whats wrong with me tonight?
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Nov 11, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahem....I have a moment
One of my favorite games that I ever watched.
Just read my saying at the bottom.
For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!
by miniboscorino on Nov 11, 2008 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ray Lankford
…was really freaking good. In terms of pure hitting ability he comes out ahead of the three guys you mentioned, at least in my book. Career OPS+ of 122, OBP of .364, .900+ OPS twice. I may be tempted to take him over those guys actually.
The thing I’ll always remember about him though was this…I was watching a game at Busch, and he fielded a ball down in the corner. It was going to be a bang-banger at the plate on a relay, so he comes up firing. Somehow, the camera just loses the ball. Dan and Al (or maybe it was Bob and Al…it probably was actually…anywho…) are going nuts up in the booth trying to figure out what the hell happened. Turns out Lankford somehow threw the ball at such an angle that it dinged off of the front rail of those cut-out seats in left and went INTO THE STANDS!!! I have no idea of the date of that game or who they were playing or anything like that, and I’m not exactly sure how he did it (I mean the geometry of the thing…). It was undoubtedly one of the craziest things I’d seen, right up there with the Canseco “Ball off the Head” and the Manny Ramirez cut-off play.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Nov 11, 2008 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Some more facts
For you Ray Lankford lovers out there. His 1997 season ranks as the 39th best season in Cardinal history in terms of OPS+(500 PA’s or more). Lankford also has 3 seasons that rank in the top 100 all time using the same OPS+ standard (and 500 PA threshold). 5 in the top 200.
He also has 4 top 200 seasons in OBP, 5 top 200 seasons in SLG & in ISO. 8 times top 200 in HR’s, 7 in walks, 6 in steals, 6 in doubles, 5 in runs, 5 in RBI’s, and 2 in triples,
So yeah, he was pretty damn good.
by Merry CRasmus on Nov 11, 2008 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sugar Ray was awesome.
Growing up and watching him and Bernard Gilkey patrol the OF gave me a sense of team pride.
They were both produce by the cards minors. I think that was the first time I became aware of the minor leagues.
I would buy 15 packs of minor league baseball cards that were about a year old and was estatic when I turned up a Gilkey card. I thought it was golden. I showed it to a trading card dealer and was happy to hear he would give me $10 for it but I said no and walked out beaming with pride. Turns out now I should have takent the $10.
*Rasmus is to CF as Longoria is to 3B*
by Red Blazer on Nov 12, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone remember
the game where he completely plowed over the catcher and probably came within a millimeter of ending his career?
For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!
by miniboscorino on Nov 11, 2008 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that would be darren daulton
and we wonder why he would be on ESPN several years later talking about “astrotravel”
"Baseball is like Church, many attend, few understand" - Wes Westrum
by scoot on Nov 11, 2008 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Darren Daulton was on a planet all his own.
Whatever his deal was had nothing to with Ray Lankford running him over.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 12, 2008 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those numbers look very similar to what Rasmus could do.
They are very similar players. Good defenders, they can hit for power, steal bases, draw a lot of walks and are both lefties to top it off.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 12, 2008 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh where did my link go I hit the link button you SOB!
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 11, 2008 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
l love how he has his own tier
That is just the way it should be. SK really knows how to make a point.
The Iron Horse analogy makes me smile.
I really do think that it is amazing that even we undervalue APu sometimes.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Nov 11, 2008 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Evan Longoria + Jose Reyes = Albert Pujols
The Man, The Myth, The Legend
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 11, 2008 7:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I personally like this one more
Matt Holliday + Ryan “watch it fly” Braun = Albert Pujols
by bearcatcardfan on Nov 11, 2008 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan "WIF" Braun?
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
by joker24 on Nov 11, 2008 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you could go with that
kind of a duel purpose nickname
by bearcatcardfan on Nov 11, 2008 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not only does he have his own tier.
but there’s another completely empty tier between the Albert Pujols Tier and the Modern Baseball Idols called the Tier Before the Albert Pujols Tier.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 8:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope that the yankees didn't read this
Pujols is worth 45 million. Are you kidding me. I really hope that the Yankees sign Texiera so they will have no need to give Pujols a David Becham type contract. Then we might be able to steal him for 30 mil a season.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 11, 2008 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like it would be beynond the Yankees to have two first basemen on the roster.
Granted, I would think it would matter to Pujols, but it wouldn’t matter to the Yankees. they’d just stick the other one at DH.
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
at some point
as a-rod gets holder, don’t you think he’ll have to move to first base or dh?
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on Nov 12, 2008 1:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
holder=older
"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on Nov 12, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd think it'll be 5 years at least
He’s a really athletic guy and by all accounts works extremely hard.
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
by joker24 on Nov 12, 2008 11:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is ryan howard really bad enough at defense that he doesn't crack the top 50
it seems strange to me that the HR leader doesn’t even crack the top 50 players, though I guess you could argue that at least some of those homers are philly-generated.
Still, surprising.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 11, 2008 9:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
- He’s a first baseman.
- He’s not a good first baseman (though not awful this year, evidently.)
- He “only” had a .540 SLG even though he had 48 HRs.
- He “only” had a .340 OBP.
- He played in a hitters’ park.
- He played in the National League.
Add it up, and he’s sitting at 22 total runs above replacement. That’s good for 116th on the list. Guys around him:
Raul Ibanez
Kosuke Fukudome
Matt R Kemp
Franklin R Gutierrez
Rickie Weeks
Alfonso Soriano
Orlando Cabrera
Chris B Young
Ryan J Howard
Elijah D Dukes
Prince Fielder
Carlos A Gomez
Ivan Rodriguez
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Nov 11, 2008 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, is that a ranking or just guys around him?
The reason I ask is because I see Fukudome 7 spots ahead of him. Granted, I’m sure his defense and obp helped that out (but that was only .359).
Our country reeks of trees. Our yaks are really large. And they smell like rotting beef carcasses. And we have to clean up after them. And our saddle sores are the best. We proudly wear women's clothing. While searing sand blows up our skirts.
And the buzzards, they soar overhead. And poisonous snakes will devour us whole. Our bones will bleach in the sun. And we will probably go to hell. And that is our great reward. For be-ing the-uh Ro-yal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen!
by Tackle Box on Nov 11, 2008 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those are the players ranked 108 through 120, in order
Fukudome’s poor SLG is buoyed by a good OBP and excellent fielding (he should be a CF).
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Nov 11, 2008 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That makes it incredible that pujols is numero uno
he is also a first baseman and he plays in the national league.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 11, 2008 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
He was 96th in OBP, still only 14th in slugging, 30th in WPA/LI, 69th in wOBA etc…and he’s bad in the field at the dead wrong end of the defensive spectrum.
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
by joker24 on Nov 11, 2008 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
does this mean that skipy cracked the top 100
by bearcatcardfan on Nov 11, 2008 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Barely missed it by 28 spots
Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist
by joker24 on Nov 11, 2008 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was 1 spot behind Iz.
Adam Kennedy, suprisingly, was just behind Felipe Lopez and Rick Ankiel. Also Iz and AK were in the top 20 defensively for all players in either league. This is evidence that we might not need to replace them as much as people think.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 11, 2008 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
isnt this exactly why the Cards should be trying hard to put a real winner behind Pujols
We have a once in a generation player and we may be squandering him by merely putting a “competitive” team on the field.
Im all for prospects and not being the Yankees but for years they ahve been saying 2009. Well, its here and its time to quit the dumpster diving and pony up for a change.
I know its November and there hasnt been any time for moves, but this year needs to be different.
What if Miles and co are good enough up the middle?
what if we keep waiting for injured pitchers to come back?
What if Pujols goes into the hall with one world series winner?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com or www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Nov 12, 2008 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What would you do?
Aside from signing Furcal, and perhaps trading for Peavy, I don’t see a ton of obvious ways to improve the team for right now.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 12, 2008 12:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Up the payroll by $15 million
so we can sign Burnett.
by Red in Chicago on Nov 12, 2008 1:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
obviously
raise payroll and sign some g’damn players.
and no on trading for peavy…

"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on Nov 12, 2008 8:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Listen, all I'm saying
is that all of these people who want the team to do something to ‘win now’ should be making some suggestions that actually have a legitimate chance of making the team capable of winning now. If there’s a reasonable argument to be made for this, I’m open to it, but it has to take a realistic view of what is availible and what can actually be done.
Signing Burnett is realistic, ‘signing some players’ without specifying the players (and there aren’t that many availible that would actually improve the team significantly), is not.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 12, 2008 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if we really wanted to improve the most for next year
We would sign Fuentes, sign affeldt, sign Burnett, sign furcal and trade ryan ludwick, adam kenedy and david freese to get uggla.
Lineup:
Furcal
Raz
Pujols
Glaus
Uggla
Ankiel
Yadi
Pitcher
Schu
Starting Rotation:
Wainright
Burnett
Carp
Lohse
Welly
Bullpen:
Fuentes
Perez
Motte
Springer
Affeldt
Kinney
Franklin
Bench:
Mather
Barton
Miles
Ryan
Larue
by vivaelpujols on Nov 12, 2008 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
of course our payroll would be ridiculous
by our standards. and we would be committing to a lot of injury risks as well. Of course I’m pretty sure that we could win it all if we put that team on the field
by vivaelpujols on Nov 12, 2008 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
it makes me kind of wistful looking at a lineup where Schumaker is the “big hole” in the lineup, and you have Duncan and Mather as your bats off of the bench.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 13, 2008 12:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We could actually make the offensive part of that come true
The Ludwick + Anderson/Freese + Kennedy trade seems fair for both sides. I am sure that if Moz really wanted to he could get Uggla. Furcal shouldn’t be that expensive, about 10-12 mil a year. We would then have 15 mil left in payroll to get affedlt and another good Loogy. I would personally move McClellan to the starting rotation because he is not good enough for our bullpen if we sign the Loogy’s and he would be better than piniero every five days.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 13, 2008 1:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If McClellan's not good enough for the bullpen, he's DEFINITELY not good enough for the rotation
The key to a solid bullpen, IMO, is five workhorse starters. You need solid guys at the bottom, of course, but I really do think that the middle relief will work itself out if the starters can all consistently give you six IP.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Nov 13, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Our bullpen, especially middle relief, will be excellent next year
Just with the simple additions of Chris Perez, Jason Motte and Josh Kinney, all shut down type relievers, our bullpen would improve a lot. Couple that with getting rid of Izzy, Flores and Villone, who actually cost us wins this year, and replacing them wtih one or two adequate loogy’s, and even without a proven closer (which i think is an overatted position) we would have a great pen. Therefore McClellan really shouldn’t get a spot in the pen. As a 5 starter he would be a full run improvement over Piniero at the least and he could show us that he would be a long term solution there.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 13, 2008 1:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Elijah Dukes
Really? And Pudge and Fukudome as well? That is really incredible.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 11, 2008 9:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jocketty sending a shout out to Moz?
“Reds GM Walt Jocketty says nothing is close with the Rockies; he’s talked to a lot of clubs. His snide remark: "They all didn’t allow it to get out.”
Jocketty talked to the Rockies about Matt Holliday, but it was a short discussion."
by FlimtotheFlam on Nov 11, 2008 10:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think it's a crack about the Rockies
the quote seems to imply that reporters only found out about his discussions w/ the Rockies, and not about any w/ any other team. Therefore, the Rockies must have leaked it, apparently.
by chuckb on Nov 11, 2008 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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