The 5 hole
That said, Looper isn’t my first choice. I’d like to find a way to bring in a young pitcher. Jonathan Sanchez’s name has come up before. I, and others, have brought up the possibility of trading for Andy Sonnastine. Either are intriguing in their own right, as is the possibility of adding some other young pitcher, if possible. The problem, of course, is that it’s a lot easier said than done. These guys are solid young starters who earn less than half a million dollars per year. They’ll also be under their teams’ control for the next several years so these teams aren’t going to loosen their grips on these pitchers easily.
Mo has indicated that the team isn’t very likely to trade for a young starter this offseason. I’ll assume that that’s more a comment on the team’s need to save its chits in order to trade for a shortstop and not an insistence that we fill the rotation w/ vets, per Tony’s and Dunc’s liking. In any case, we’re more likely to see Looper in the rotation in ’09 than we are Sonnastine or Sanchez. So, if we are going to pursue a vet for the rotation – through free agency or trade – what should the parameters be?
The absolute last thing we want to get bogged down with is another long-term contract for a back of the rotation starter. We’ll have Carpenter under contract through 2011 and he may never pitch another meaningful inning for us again. We’ve got 4 more years of Kyle Lohse. We signed Pineiro last offseason to a 2 year contract when 1 would have been optimal. Now we’ll have a 5th starter we’re paying $7.5 M this year. If Carp’s medical news is as bad as it might be, the front office has to avoid panicking and ending up stuck w/ some contract we’ll regret over the long-term. A 1 year deal would be ideal – thus the allure of the possibility of Looper accepting our arbitration offer.
The problem, of course, is that most free agents aren’t eager to accept one year offers, and those that are tend to be coming off injury. Options would include Mark Mulder, Mark Prior, Matt Clement (who?), Jason Jennings, Carl Pavano and Freddy Garcia. With Garcia out for the year, and Boggs, Todd and Mortensen not yet ready, is this really the time for another reclamation project? Do we need a 200 inning workhorse in this spot? Probably not. It’s reasonable to think that we could get 10-12 starts and 60 innings out of Boggs, Todd, or Mortensen but neither can we depend on them to get 150 innings this season.
We should also avoid any Type-A free agents. We’re not going to sign Sabathia. We’re not going to sign Sheets, Mussina, or Lowe either. There just isn’t the money left in the budget to spend $12-15 M on another starter. So if we’re not going to get a top of the rotation guy, we absolutely should not squander our first round draft pick in order to fill the #4 or #5 spot in the rotation. Type-B free agents provide compensation to the team that lost the starter but do not cost the signing team any draft picks.
So what’s available? Looper…possibly. I still think there’s a really good chance that he signs a 3 year, $25-27 M contract w/ someone but, if not, he’d be a good fit. Here is the list of free agent starters. It’s not a terrible group, all in all, but there aren’t that many on the list who seem to fit the criteria. Brad Penny’s intriguing but he’ll likely get a long-term deal from someone…if he’s healthy. And therein lies the problem – if he’s healthy, he’ll get a long-term deal. If he’s not, we don’t want him anyway. His injury last year was no fluke. 30 year old pitchers w/ shoulder problems have a big, flashing, neon sign saying "Achtung! Caution! Caveat emptor!"
Back in July, LB made the case for pursuing a trade for the Mariners’ Jarrod Washburn. The argument was that the M’s would be looking to clear some salary and, if they would take a low-value prospect in return, it would be better than paying a lot of money for 3-4 years for a free agent. The M’s, w/ their GM turnover never were able to trade Washburn b/c they wanted the team to take Washburn, his salary, and give back something of value as well. Might new GM Jack Zduriencik be more flexible when attempting to deal Washburn? If so, he’s still an option – though, unfortunately, Mike Parisi no longer is due to his season-ending injury.
But I want to bring up another name as a possibility. He’s someone who fits all the available criteria – would likely accept a 1 year deal, not a type-A free agent, and not an injury reclamation project. I realize that Randy Johnson is 45 years old – but he’s no ordinary 45 year old pitcher. The man is, simply, a freak. He’s certainly not the pitcher he once was, but if he was, we couldn’t even consider him for this role. Last year, as a 44 year old pitching in one of the best hitters’ parks in the game, he threw 184 IP w/ an FIP of 3.76. He made 30 starts. Is it likely we’d get 30 starts and 180 innings from the guy? Maybe it’s not probable but it’s certainly plausible and I don’t think that 25 starts and 150 innings is out of the question.
Would a 1 year, $8.5 M contract be enough to lure Johnson to St. Louis? Who knows but I doubt that GMs will be knocking each other out of the way to fill out their rotations w/ a 45 year old starter. Unfortunately, ZIPS isn’t out yet w/ the D-backs’ projections so we don’t know what they have figured for Johnson, but Bill James has him down for 170 IP, 178 K, and a 3.40 ERA. I’m not buying it but it is encouraging to see that James seems to feel that signing Johnson would be a pretty good move.
THT has Johnson at 8 win shares above bench for last season – worth just less than $12 M. It’s not that hard to see that he might be worth at least $9 M or so for next season. Plus, he’s left-handed. It’s been since, and this is tough to believe, it’s been since 2005 since we had a viable southpaw in the rotation. The question, of course, is what happens in those 10-15 starts that Johnson isn’t able to make.
Let’s say that Johnson is able to start 25 games next season for the Cards w/ an ERA around 4. He averaged just more than 6 innings per start this year so, at 6 IP per start, that gives us 150 innings from him. We’ll need to fill about 9 starts from Boggs, Todd, and/or Mortensen then. Let’s assume that these guys average 5 innings per and are basically replacement-level pitchers. ZIPS projects Todd to have a 4.75 ERA, Boggs – 5.31 and Mortensen 5.61. Let’s assume a 5.20 ERA for the trio.
| IP | ERA | ER | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Johnson | 150 | 4.02 | 67 |
| Toggsensen | 45 | 5.20 | 26 |
| Totals | 195 | 4.29 | 93 |
So our combination of Johnson, Todd, Boggs, and Mortensen out of the 5 hole would give us somewhere around 195 innings w/ a 4.29 ERA. It’s possible we only end up 20 starts or so out of Johnson and 13 or so starts from Toggsensen. Even in that circumstance, we end up w/ 185 innings and an ERA of 4.48. That’s about league-average and simply isn’t easy to find on the free agent market for 1 year and $8.5-9 M. Does anyone out there think we can get that from Paul Byrd or Greg Maddux? Anybody out there think we can get Jon Garland for a contract like that? I don’t.
If we, indeed, have to find somebody to fill out the last spot in our rotation b/c Carp simply can’t be counted on in ’09, we need to do what we can to give the team a chance to win every 5th day while still providing the opportunity for the young-uns to prepare to take the reins in 2010. Randy Johnson does that and I doubt that he’d cost the team $12M. He certainly won’t cost the team 3-4 years of mediocre productivity. Of course, there’s always the possibility that Johnson is done but he gave no indication last year that that’s the case.
0 recs |
54 comments
Comments
Youth Please .............
Can’t get to excited about Looper, Randy Johnson or any of the other vets that were mentioned. This team needs another frontline starter and if that is not possible then they should go for youth. Boggs, McClellan, Todd, and Thompson are options within the system.
by Warcard on
Nov 1, 2008 8:18 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
off the subject a little, but since we're talking hot stove
sign Jeremy Affeldt!
Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle." www.futureredbirds.net
by erik on
Nov 1, 2008 8:48 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
i agree...
i’ve been saying this for awhile. i think he’s a great option. won’t cost a whole lot of money, only one year, and he still strikes out a batter per inning. i’m glad someone else is thinking that. i hope mo is too.
by bwhitt on
Nov 1, 2008 9:26 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
I like the Johnson idea for one year, too.
I wouldn’t mind both Johnson and Looper for 1 year.
by stlfan on
Nov 1, 2008 12:16 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I admit
I wondered about Randy too. But the deal I cant seem to stop thinking about is the rumor floated a week or so ago about ankiel for those yankees prospects, Hughes and Kennedy. Having a young, talented, cost controlled group of starting prospects would be pretty sweet imho and could potentially answer a lot of questions for years to come.
by Walking Underwear on
Nov 1, 2008 9:41 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
I hope and pray...
that Mo and the Cards know more about Carp’s status than we do, since that’s apparently the determining factor for the direction this offseason will take. This guy is guessing the Birds sign Jon Garland (stats), Kerry Wood (!), Edgar Renteria, and Mark Grudzielanek! Somehow, I don’t think t’will come to pass.
Reiter (the writer) also thinks Loop will wind up in Atlanta, for what that’s worth…
My guess is that Randy Johnson will stay in Phoenix; his home is there, and I’m sure the D-Backs want to have him get his 300th win in their uniform.
If the Dodgers can’t afford to sign both Manny and Furcal, the Birds might have a shot at getting Raffy; if the Yanks go “all-in” with Manny, the Dodgers will have more $ available to throw at Furcal.
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on
Nov 1, 2008 9:46 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Reiter
is also sending Floppy to the Astros, FWIW.
by cardsgirl95 on
Nov 1, 2008 11:04 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
lohse was signed on 3-14-2008
j.m. the gm, sat on 4.25 mil swingman funds into spring training. kept himself very flexable, very late, with budget $ being one of his chips.
another 4 to 5 mil available, gives “creative and aggressive”, better outcomes.
j.m. the gm, is due for a breakout season :)
by ball in play on
Nov 1, 2008 10:04 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
What is TB asking for.....
For Sonnastine?
Do we not think we could get him for an OF? Maybe Skip, or Barton, or Duncan, or maybe Mather?
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on
Nov 1, 2008 10:33 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
I don't think any of those guys alone stand a chance of getting Sonnastine
by ICbirdfan on
Nov 1, 2008 10:52 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Starting pitching is of way too much value
to ship one off for what is essentially a platoon OF. I would think getting Sonny would take at least Skip and good pitching prospect. While we like Barton and Mather, they are far from proven. Duncan? How could anyone trade a SP for someone who may or may not be able to play again.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Nov 1, 2008 11:16 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I don't understand.....
All the talk about Duncan “not being able to play again.”
That talk was only if the procedure didn’t “take”. It did. He will be healthy. I’ve read nothing SINCE the surgery to suggest otherwise.
Besides, I wasn’t suggesting JUST Duncan for Sonnastine. Duncan and something else, I’d be fine with that.
As for asking for a good SP spect in return, I don’t know about that. The kid is a 4/5 SP. Yes he is young and cheap, but when that is the best part about trading for a kid, his value can’t be THAT high.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on
Nov 1, 2008 12:07 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
C. Dunc a question-mark
Until C Duncan shows up at ST lacing line drives, his health is a question-mark that drives down his value. If the Cards wish to trade C Dunc, which makes lots of sense given the other options we have and that he can’t field the position, they should at least give him plenty of innings in ST to show he’s healthy before moving him right at the start of the season.
by jjray on
Nov 1, 2008 12:15 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
not just ST
let’s see if he can show up for ST and then stay healthy for a full season.
by Knighttime on
Nov 1, 2008 5:59 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
And play him where?
Ankiel
Ludwick
Skip
Rasmus (Mo says he makes the team if he’s healthy and has a strong spring)
———————————-
Notice those are 3 left handed hitters. Duncan fights for the 5th OF spot with Mather and Barton. A right handed hitter will be the 5th outfielder under these circumstances. If Skip or Ankiel gets moved, then I can see Duncan making the team as the 5th outfielder.
by jjray on
Nov 1, 2008 7:16 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Valid point
imo either Skip or Ainkel will be traded.
My point was more along the lines that Duncan cannot be traded due to health concerns. Not only the neck surgery that he may never recover from, but the fact that he has been hurt each of the past two seasons 07 & 08. I can’t remember if he was hurt in 06.
You had mentioned he needs to come in the ST healthy and hitting – i’m just saying he needs to stay healthy for a full season before anyone would trade for him. At least if i was a GM I wouldn’t want him.
by Knighttime on
Nov 2, 2008 9:45 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Sonny is a 4/5?
No way. With his K/BB ratio, he’s a #3 right now, with room to improve a bit given his age/experience.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 1, 2008 12:29 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
He's a young Jeff Suppan
with more upside.
by Red in Chicago on
Nov 1, 2008 12:55 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
sonny would have been our #5 in 08.
he could be viewed as a #4 sp today, with the possible loss of looper.
his bb/k ratio was outstanding, but we can’t base every pitchers worth on tra* alone. it’s just a s slice, that goes with balls in play to form an overall value. loopers gb% has value tra doesn’t acknowledge.
sonny finished behind wainwright, lohse, wellemeyer, looper in ops+, wsab and vorp during 08.
it’s not a stretch for a cardinal fan to see him as a 4/5.
by ball in play on
Nov 1, 2008 3:26 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
The whole point of TRA
is to acknowledge the value of gb% in a way FIP doesn’t.
by azruavatar on
Nov 1, 2008 3:59 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
1 recs
wish i could see it.
the slga, iso allowed isn’t showing up for me.
where did the doubles/x-base hits devalue the pitchers numbers, w/tra or fip, over the hr’s factored as fielding independent.
it feels like if a pitcher can allow an avg amount of hr’s allowed, and good bb/k he gets a pass for xbase and iso.
trying to be tra* friendly :) and see it within a pitchers effectivness.
by ball in play on
Nov 1, 2008 4:23 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
you need to read the primer on tra
it uses regression for batted ball data to project future performance as well as walks, strikeouts and hrs. So pitchers who don’t strike out many but get a lot of groundballs may be undervauled in a metric like FIP where tRA would attempt to evaluate that.
Just so we’re clear — I’m not arguing that tRA is an end all be all metric. I’m merely trying to show that your statement about looper’s gb% not being acknowledged in tRA is factually incorrect.
by azruavatar on
Nov 1, 2008 5:52 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i agree, i was factually incorrect.
tra+ does measure gb outs, line drives, popups and flyballs. the out results of a ball in play, plus hr’s. looks like fip with outs.
when does tra+ and fip get to the “he got hammered with 4 doubles in a row” part? the K on each side of the doubles was nice and the gb to end the inning, but neither stat measured the 4 doubles.
i prefer a stat that measures both sides of a ball in play, to prevent overvalueing a pitcher with a good bb/k / hr rate and poor iso / slga. if we value iso / slg in hitters, why ignore the amount allowed by pitchers.
tra+ ranks them, sonny 34, wainwright 51, looper 82, lohse 85, wellemeyer 85 with sonny the highest value.
there’s a red flag :) —needs a disclaimer, “this is not an overview stat”.
by ball in play on
Nov 1, 2008 7:17 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I don't understand
how anyone can have a vertebrae replaced with a prosthetic and people just take it for granted that he is going to come back as the same player he was. Until he proves that he can play, how can it be a given?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Nov 1, 2008 12:58 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Well so many people have had this surgery before
and come back to play normal, productive careers afterwa. . . . wait.
by Ray Lankford on
Nov 2, 2008 12:43 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
+1
It would have to be one of those guys and a couple of young guns, like Perez and Todd. I for one would be more willing to try and get Loop back for a year or two and allow Todd to develop or Garcia to get healthy. I really like Jaime’s potential.
"I've never felt better to be hit by a big guy like that, in my life." - Brad Lidge on Ryan Howard
by RunninRedbird on
Nov 1, 2008 11:35 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
That wouldn't do it.
Keeping Sonny in the playoff rotation ahead of EJax is a sign that the Rays know what they have in him. Going by most fielding-independent metrics, Sonny’s a 3.75 ERA kind of guy. The Rays’ biggest need is a full-time RF (or DH) with some power who bats righty and is average to above-average in the field. Yes, that’s expecting a lot, but they do have the young pitching to trade for it.
Sanchez is also a good target, although given the Cardinals’ very good fielding abilities, you may want to look at guys who allow a lot of balls in play (more like Sonny) instead of a high-K, high-BB guy like Sanchez.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 1, 2008 12:28 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I've suggested Ankiel
for Sonnastine. None of the other OFs is enough, IMO. They Rays need help against lefties, so they may prefer a RHB for RF and they may not want a guy who’ll just be there for 1 year before becoming a free agent. Add to that the notion that I don’t believe the Cards have any intention of trading Ankiel this offseason and I see it as unlikely.
by chuckb on
Nov 1, 2008 2:51 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
that's actually in the ballpark talent-wise, Ankiel for Sonny
What do Cards’ fans think of Ankiel’s fielding in center? The zone ratings have him as a -5 run guy, which would be about +5 in RF before considering arm.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 1, 2008 4:16 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
this Cards' fan
thinks he has the potential to be a great CF, but obviously isn’t there yet. He will make jaw-dropping plays from time to time, but at times look totally lost on some of his routes to the ball out there. Of course we (me, Royal we?) are all in love with that arm, but I think some people value that a little too much.
Considering I think we walks after next year, I would be happy if we could get a good young SP out of him, I just doubt that an Ankiel trade happens.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Nov 1, 2008 4:57 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
he was excellent for most of the season
Before his injury in July, he was the top center fielder in baseball defensively by RZR. All of his negatives came after the injury.
the enemy's gate is down.
by SleepyCA on
Nov 1, 2008 6:37 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
that's pretty interesting
so you disagree with the “looks lost on routes” thing. funny enough, Rays fan are already use to speedy outfielders who struggle with routes with CC and Upton
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on
Nov 2, 2008 3:20 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
no, he took some awful routes
and on occasion looked pretty bad when he missed one. but he almost always caught the ball and made a number of catches that were very outstanding. The numbers really, really liked him, until he got hurt.
the enemy's gate is down.
by SleepyCA on
Nov 3, 2008 6:35 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I don't think RJ is a possibility
He is going for 300 wins, and I can’t see the D-Backs letting that marketing goldmine slip away. if Johnson pitches, it will be in ARI.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
by cardzfan24 on
Nov 1, 2008 11:09 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Right
He’s at 295 wins now. His house is in Arizona. He has a very comfortable situation, doesn’t need any more awards, has World Series ring, etc. There’s really no reason for him to come to St. Louis unless Arizona doesn’t want him. And even if they don’t, there are other teams, like Houston, that might want him. Has he ever even mentioned a desire to pitch in St. Louis? It’s really not even worth talking about at this point.
by Red in Chicago on
Nov 1, 2008 1:56 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
McClellan
I prefer sending McClellan to the rotation. Looper will take a multiyear deal to sign. By all means, offer him arbitration. We’ll get a sandwich when he declines. I’ll puke if we offer a multiyear deal to Looper. McClellan is as good or better than any young starting pitcher we could hope to trade for without emptying the cupboard of prospects. If LaDuncan are bound and determined to have another starter signed from outside the organization, then give me Mark Prior on a 1 year deal. If he can’t pitch, we’re only stuck for one year. If he resurrects his career, then we get a cheap starter for 1 season and might get a pick when he leaves as a free agent to boot.
by jjray on
Nov 1, 2008 12:12 PM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
speaking of puking
MArk Prior would make ME puke
by the Tewk on
Nov 2, 2008 1:11 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i liked this idea last off-season...
… and i still like it. i don’t think it’ll cost $8.5-9mn. i think he can be had cheaper, if only b/c the D-Backs don’t have much cash to spend and the other usual players will be knocking each other out for Sheets, Sabathia, Dempster, Lowe, Garland, etc. Johnson still K’d a batter an inning and barely BBed anybody. he’s made 30+ starts in 4 of the past 5 years.
but here’s the downside: at this point, we’ve probably got less than $20mn to spend. if we blow 1/3 of it on RJ and another 1/3 on the bullpen (say $6-8mn total on a LOOGY and Springer) then we essentially have nothing left to upgrade SS and 2B. we can try to trade to fill in those areas, but trading requires a partner and it doesn’t always work out. in any case, it’ll be difficult to upgrade both 2B and SS through trade. so the question becomes this: are we going to get a better marginal upgrade by signing Johnson over pitching Piniero/Boggs (or signing Pavano/Prior/whoever) or by signing a better SS/2B. right now our starting MIF is a Kennedy/Miles platoon with Ryan at SS… that’s pretty horrible even if you expect Miles to replicate his ‘08 success (and i don’t). so RJ might be fantastic, but we could still be losing marginal production by signing him rather than a better MIF.
my strategy would be to shore up the bullpen and explore all trades first. if RJ is still out there late in the game (a la Lohse) and the other issues have been addressed, then maybe go for him. but if you sign him up quick, then you leave yourself with precious few options for upgrades in other spots.
as for those trades, the most likely options to me are to send a 3B to LAD for Hu, or an OF to TB for Zobrist. assuming, of course, that the Dodgers re-sign Furcal and TB is willing to part with Zobrist. if you get one of those guys then i could live with Miles/Kennedy at 2B for one more year.
by kindred on
Nov 1, 2008 1:00 PM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Off topic....
You all know Chase Utley, Phillies 2nd baseman, total professional, all around good player and man of few words? If you sneak on over to umpbump.com you will learn that not only was he captured, live, dropping the f-bomb during the season, he was captured live and with the stadium filled with fans again dropping the f bomb. Live. His teammates reaction is priceless.
I don’t promote foul talk, but there is something that makes me laugh at this. It just seems so out of character and spontaneous at the same time. Don’t go bringing it over here, but if you’re interested, you know where to find it.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
Nov 1, 2008 1:23 PM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Well, I found it amusing
as an adult. But I don’t think he should have said it, and it wasn’t classy. Under the WWSD (What Would Stan Do) Rule, it was definitely wrong. There are lots of kids who look up to Utley, and he’s just not being a good role model for them.
Plus, I think he may have been a little drunk.
by Red in Chicago on
Nov 1, 2008 2:27 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
jeff weaver-drunk?
“into the niiiiiiiiight!!!”
“i haven’t slept in daaaaaaaays!!!”

"I'm as nauseous as I've ever been. I have a terrible headache. My head is pounding. I feel like throwing up and I'm having trouble swallowing. And the beauty of it is, you want to feel like this every day." - Tony LaRussa
by adiueordie on
Nov 1, 2008 2:42 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
as a dad
I don’t find it funny at all. MLB should fine him, IMO.
Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle." www.futureredbirds.net
by erik on
Nov 1, 2008 3:44 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Well, I'm not a dad
but I agree 100% with you.
A couple of days ago, we had a discussion regarding a “term” that didn’t meet the approval of a certain community member here at VEB that I believe would describe Mr. Utley perfectly.
Catherine whispered into my ear, her breath rich with faraway spices, that she desire to make love. She wanted to try shinshi shinshi. Now, I'd been begging her to try shinshi shinshi for months. She'd refused on the grounds that it was unclean. Finally, she was willing to accept her lover's body in places no one had ever trespassed. Specifically, the ear canal.
by Tackle Box on
Nov 1, 2008 4:04 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I disagree
Sometimes vulgarity can capture the moment. Especially when it is from an unexpected person.
by FlimtotheFlam on
Nov 1, 2008 4:20 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Me too
Sometimes stuff just happens. It isn’t like the f-bomb ever hurt anyone. I think that fines and/or suspensions should be reserved for the more serious stuff. Although I wouldn’t be upset if Utley apologized for anyone he might have upset.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Nov 1, 2008 4:48 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
the Phillies should fine him
that’s absurd. It’s one thing to drop an f-bomb when you don’t know the microphones are around. We’re all adults. I couldn’t watch the first video that Jill referred to but deliberately tossing it out there at the championship celebration w/, undoubtedly, thousands of kids around is completely unnecessary. Vulgarity can capture a moment; that doesn’t mean you ought to be tossing them out there around a bunch of kids. You’re an adult, Chase. Act like one. You can enjoy the moment w/o an f-bomb. Use it at a bar around your buddies or whatever. I don’t care. There are times when it’s tolerable and times when it’s inappropriate — and that one was wholly inappropriate.
by chuckb on
Nov 1, 2008 5:21 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
is nothing sacred?
this line is dedicated to '09
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Nov 3, 2008 6:14 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
if you can't beat em, join em
someone forward this to The Big Units agents. that is if Zona doesn’t want him back for 300.
i really wanna see him yell at Bernie & Joe after a bad start.
i mean,, like, i really wanna see that. badly.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on
Nov 1, 2008 2:48 PM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
you know who's always
trying to get younger and cheaper? the marlins. you know who’s got a lot of pitching. the marlins. you know who would cost a ton and look really good in a cardinals uniform. josh johnson.
i don’t say this thinking he would be a cheap buy low option such as boof bonser, he would cost a lot. but he would also be cost controlled throughout the duation of pujols contract, which would put ww, carp, and lohse all under team control for the mext four seasons. johnson’s a number two in nearly anyones book and would solidify the rotation for quite some time. jones and anderson would be a start, maybe todd plus another ?. I could see it being done with out rasmus but quite frankly I cant find a precedent for a trade quite like this.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
by Dave Barry on
Nov 1, 2008 2:58 PM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
fish
need a first baseman now? i’d think they were close enough this past year to not try to go with helms.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on
Nov 1, 2008 10:12 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Nah. They don't need a first baseman.
Between Cantu, Helms, and McPherson they will get the corners covered. They have enough big boppers. They need someone that can get on base, move a runner over, maybe even get a bunt down. If in house candidates don’t work out, I could see Adam LaRoche as a good fit-he really improves the defense, too. . Just throw the Pirates a good young pitcher. The Marlins can do that easily.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
Nov 2, 2008 12:45 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Braden Looper back + No trade for young starters
= Tony wins again!
People that might be thinking 2009 might be to 2004 what 2008 was 2003, remember that Walt traded a valuable position player he didn’t want to give a long term contract to for 2 young starting pitchers (Marquis and Wainwright) and a valuable LOOGY.
The problem is like international politics; shifting timelines. The St. Louis Cardinals will be here for the next 5 years, Tony LaRussa will not. We can’t just live on a plan that tries to squeeze as much value out of the sad sack of starters we have next season. We need to put ourselves in a better chance to win more games over the next 5, not just the next 2.
This off-season is the perfect opportunity to do that with Ludwick and Ankiel, but instead they seem more intent on getting Matt Holliday to lumber about in LF.
by Hardcore Legend on
Nov 1, 2008 11:25 PM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
honestly
i just don’t see us having what it takes to get a good young pitcher. if we want to give up rasmus i’m sure we could get teams to bite but beyond that i just don’t see it. hopefully the farm system keeps improving and maybe by next offseason we could have something.
it took delmon young to get garza. i just don’t think we have a delmon young in our system. Maybe at midseason when wallace is a valid trade chip we could sniff something.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
by FutureMan on
Nov 2, 2008 1:24 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs












