Hot Stove Fanpost: 10/6 to 10/12
by chuckb on Oct 9, 2008 8:33 PM EDT
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Let me just go ahead and say now,
that my philosophy is that we should commit to bringing in high-value prospects by trading Ankiel and/or ludwick while their values have peaked, OR we should commit to winning next year by spending every penny of our surplus on Fuentes or Furcal and trading Rasmus, Anderson, and whoever else it takes to get a starter, and shore up any other weaknesses in order to win now.
In between those two, sort of rebuilding and sort of competing, I think is the worst idea because we will not be able to maximize the value we get from our currently cheap, extremely talented, and soon to be free agent core.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
Build for the future?
I ahve to admit, I don’t like the idea of trading Rasmus ( a guy who profiles to be an all star by the way) or Anderson (a good prospect who everyone is hopeful comes into his own) for a rental of a starter.
agreed on moving Ankiel
not so much on Ludwick. Isn’t he under team control for 3 more years? My math might be wrong on that, but if he is, you sure the better hope that he will not have another season in the next three anywhere close to his 2008 season. I think that 2008 might just be the norm for Ludwick, I don’t want to trade a cheap, productive outfielder that we can put out there for the next 3 years just so we can get some prospects. That is just looking way too far down the road.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I just think ludwick has already peaked, and while he is under control, his price tag is not,
remember what Ryan Howard got in arb?
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
How much is too much to pay
for the No. 2 slugger in the major leagues? He’s a bargain at anything under $15 million if continues to put up those numbers.
by Red in Chicago on Oct 11, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
And that's a HUGE IF with a HUGE price tag.
We will have to pay before we see if he has the goods to do it again.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
agreed.
You don’t trade away solid commodities, you build around them. I would be ecstatic if rasmus put up those numbers. For some reason people like to label players. What have you done for me lately??? I say trade Rasmus for a great MIF, not starting pitching. Lets give a young guy a spot. I like saving a spot in the rotation next spring for the Boggs/Todd/Motte/Garcia combo. Why not? one will earn it this spring and we cannot lean on Carp like we tried this August, remember how getting him back would be the same as acquiring a top pitcher like Harden or CC?…or Burnett?!?!!?
Point being, trade rasmus and anderson if you can get position players or relievers back. (good ones, obviously)
there is some control that teams have
in his arbitration years. He was great this year but he’s not going to get paid as the #2 slugger in the big leagues. He’ll get $3-4 M as a very good 4th year player would. Now, he may have already peaked and we may never see another season like this one again, but he’s still likely to be a very good bargain for the next 3 years — or at least the next 2. Ankiel, OTOH, stands to be a good bargain this year, but then he’s a free agent. His price tag jumps immensely. If Ludwick and Ankiel are the same player for the next 3 years — a step down for Ludwick or a step up for Ankiel — Ludwick is, by far, the better bargain b/c of their relative salaries. And we won’t be able to sign Ankiel for just 2 years if he continues to play well. He’ll get 4 — taking him to age 35. Would we have signed Torii Hunter to the contract the Angels signed him to? I wouldn’t have. But that’s probably a pretty good comp if Ankiel continues to improve.
re...Ludwick.
If he’s having a similar season next year do we try to extend him during the year when it might save us some money?
I don't think so
he’ll be 31 next season and we’ll have him under our control through his age-33 season. I wouldn’t want to extend him past that until that last season and then, maybe not at all. How good will he be when he’s 34, 35 and 36? My guess is not very good and not nearly the player he was last year.
And to add to it
Ankiel is another lefthanded bat. We have a bit of a redundancy there.
by Merry CRasmus on Oct 12, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Ankiel's improvement
Best case with Rick, imo: The team keeps him for next year, he plays 140+ games in CF with above average defense, hits 30+ homers with around a .280 BA and a .340 OBP, helps the Cardinals compete in the division and possibly get into the playoffs.
The team could then tender him an offer in the offseason that they think is fair, meaning that we’d tender him an offer similar to something we’d offer a corner outfielder, since that’s what he’d be for the Cardinals in 2010. If he doesn’t take it he’s a Type A free agent and we’ll get 2 draft picks in compensation for him in the 2010 draft. If we don’t trade Colby, we have a guy who could come in and fill that spot to start the season in 2010.
By having Rasmus waiting in the wings, we don’t need to trade Rick for value this offseason. We can hope he has a giant contract year this year and then make a decision at that time.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Ludwick is not going to get Ryan Howard money
he hit 22 fewer homers this year than Howard did in his first full season, and the Cardinals didn’t hamper Ludwick’s career by keeping him in the minors for 2 full seasons when he would have been playing for just about any other team.
That said, he would probably be a bargain at that $10 million per season with the kind of numbers he’s capable of putting up, especially since he can fill in out in CF in a real pinch. You can’t say that about too many slugging corner outfielders.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Great idea
This could get fun as we all like crazy trade proposals from passionate fans. (ok, not everybody likes to hear them). I think this would be my wish list in order of priority – trying to keep in the back of my mind approx $100M payroll (or a bit higher).
Hole 1) SS: FA sign a) Furcal, b) Cabrera, c) Izturis
Hole 2) LH Relief #1: FA sign a) Will Ohman, b) Joe Biemel
Hole 3) LH Relief #2: FA sign a) Joe Biemel, b) Jeremy Affleldt
— In house I would also try to sign Flores to a minor league deal and keep him around
Hole 4) 2B: FA sign a) Orlando Hudson, b) trade for Brian Roberts c) Felipe Lopez
Hole 5) SP: a) keep Pinerio use McClellan/Boggs if Carp can’t go. leave the option open for midseason acquisition.
Hole 6) Closer: If payroll is too high then they can/should use Chris Perez ; if they still have wiggle room: FA sign a) Trevor Hoffman, b) trade for Kevin Gregg, c) use Chris Perez
starting with the 40 man roster analysis over at Birdhouse
they are projecting that Duncan will be a super 2 and thus be arb eligible
they also list Miles, thompson, ty johnson and Flores as arb eligible in addition to wellemeyer, ankiel and ludwick
I think this diminishes the trade value of our favorite offers — thompson and duncan
it also, to me, means we should definitely dump flores
(1) LHRPs johnson probably still would be worth keeping for one LH relief spot and Fuentes is probably our top choice for adding to the pen. Scott Downs would be another option.
(2) SP I doubt that we target a big ticket FA SP………if we do sign a SP, its likely to be from the cut-out bin. All other things being equal, a lefty would be nice………….Randy Wolf anyone? Randy Johnson? Jamie Moyer? Is Warren Spahn still alive?
(3) 2B we and everybody else are in the hudson and roberts derbies…..so, I figure Lopez returns to higher cost and more typical production….say $4 mill for a weak fielding .720 OPS
(4) SS deal for a young guy who can field and maybe hit too……Zobrist, Y Escobar, Wood…..unless Greene is better and more ready than I think we have no internal options in the next few years
(5) impact bat its on TLRs wish list so its probably more in play than a top of the rotation SP. I am opposed to dealing Rasmus for this and would prefer a free agent to a trade. Type B free agent ideally……………………….hence my fondness for Milton Bradley, balky knees and all
The club is in a tight spot.
They can afford one star-quality middle-infielder. They can either go for a Furcal/Hudson/Cabrera at short and platoon Lopez and Miles at second, or they can go for a Roberts/Uggla type at second and re-sign Izturis at short. Either way, you can still keep Lopez and Miles around as your MI bench.
They can probably get one nice LOOGy (Ohman, Bannister) and one so-so LOOGy (Villone) unless Ty Johnson can return to form. The right side of the pen is currently overloaded with short arms (Springer, Izzy, Perez, Motte, Franklin). Only three of these guys will be staying, I believe, because you need one long man, two LOOGys, and an expected new closer.
As far as the outfield goes, this has been discussed ad nauseum IMO, but the current crop hits so well, it’s difficult to see how there can be a home for an “impact bat” out there. The “impact” would come at the expense of two of our top four hitters. I don’t see it. The only place to park another slugger is in the middle infield, and that means either Furcal, a trade for Tulowitzki, or a trade for Roberts, Uggla, etc.
In terms of the rotation, they could surprise us all and step up for Burnett or Lowe. I’m expecting no help at all on that front, save a “swingman” scrap-heaper who can take Brad Thompson’s role in the pen and do it worse for more money.
On the closer front, they have talked about Fuentes enough that I think it’s a strong possibility. Particularly if there’s a trade for a cost-controlled middle-infielder instead of a FA acquisition. I can see Perez as set-up/understudy, or I can even see Perez traded. But I think Tony’s made up his mind that Perez isn’t going to be the 2009 closer unless he has to be.
by Red in Chicago on Oct 10, 2008 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
hopefully
we don’t carry 2 reserve MIs next season……..if we keep Lopez, he projects to start at one of the spots. I like the idea of Freese taking a bench spot to back up 3rd, 1st and pinch hit
I’m all for signing a Hudson or a Furcal and batting them leadoff…..just think we get out bid. So we deal for a young ss and bat him lead off lets just plug in the name Zobrist
the “Impact” bat in the OF works like this deal Skippy, sign Dunn or Bradley or Manny or Bay or Giles or Nady to play LF
they all had OPS’s over 800 and significantly higher than Skip’s last season……..the lowest was Giles at .854 (even with the Petco effect) compared to Skip’s .765 so lets use him as the example
OF next season becomes Giles in LF, Ankiel in CF, Ludwick in RF………Mather/Ras or Bart on bench
Ankiel is a FA after next season and so is TLR
2010 OF is then Giles/Rasmus/Ludwick Mather/Bart
Pretty sure...
Giles’ option was/will be picked up.
Could Freese back up short? He’s supposed to be one of the best glovemen at the hot corner…he may be a better back up than Mario.
I suppose you do it that way
But I’m assuming Rasmus and Ankiel are your everyday CF/RF starters. You certainly wouldn’t want to bench Ludwick just so you can pencil, say, Giles in the lineup. If Rasmus is out, it’s a different deal. But I also think Rasmus is a bit of an “impact bat,” too. He could be every bit or moreso than Brian Roberts from day 1.
by Red in Chicago on Oct 10, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure what Uggla makes.....
But is it really impossible to both trade for Uggla, and sign Furcal?
I’m too lazy to look it up, but if we moved Skip or Ank for Uggla (plus spects, I know), I think we’d be okay, especially if we got to keep Raz and plugged him in.
by SoonerfanTU on Oct 10, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I like that deal a lot
And I wouldn’t rule it out. I just think the club likes Lopez enough to give him the strong bat/weak glove position. I would rather just let him go before he regresses or boots a ball in extra innings.
by Red in Chicago on Oct 10, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Well.....
Uggla might be the only guy I’d rather plug into 2B than Lopez next year. Not saying there aren’t other, talented 2B, just that they likely cost too much $-wise, or prospect wise.
I was agaisnt Uggla at one time, but I think we can overcome any defensive shortcomings he’d carry over here.
the biggest problem w/ Uggla
to me, isn’t his Ks or his defense, but rather the bounty it’ll likely cost us to get him. For them to give up a cost-controlled middle infielder who hits 30+ homers will require us to back up the truck. Why would we do that? Sure, I’d rather have him than Miles or Lopez but is he really that much of an upgrade? He’ll up our payroll by $3 M or so (which, admittedly, isn’t that much) plus cost a truckload of prospects. It would seem to make more sense to sign Furcal or trade for Zobrist.
Hell, if we’re going to trade a ton for a middle infielder, I’d much rather get Tulowitzki.
The best reason why
is wearing No. 5. The club has to be planning for his extension already. Cost-controlled players will be an absolute must to step up payroll by $10-15 million a year to keep Pujols a Cardinal.
by Red in Chicago on Oct 12, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Signing Albert Pujols is the reason
why we should up our payroll now by $3 -4 M and trade for Uggla?
Uggla makes
the league minimum , but he is arb eligible so that figures to skyrocket next season.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
jhonny peralta
seems to me like a guy we should go after. it sounds like they plan on trying to make him fit at 3B since cabrera’s natural position is SS. Apparently they don’t have much RH bullpen help in the minors either. However, they do seem to have quite a few LH pitchers on their prospect chart.
maybe we work something out with freese and one or two of our plentiful RHP’s for peralta and one of their LHP’s.
just a thought.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
Outfielders might be attractive to them too
If they really want to deal Peralta, I could see us being a good trade partner for them. They have some pitiful outfielders once you get past Sizemore. I’m not sure where to grade Peralta’s defense for the position but his bat is a huge plus. His age makes him a good long term option. I’d really love to find a way to stop playing the stopgap game for SS every year. Doesn’t look like the farm is ready to help for 3 years or so, so let’s find a longterm option now and save ourselves the hassle of flea market shopping for a critical position for the next several years.
If you can’t find a trade partner for SS, then I’m inclined to make a strong push for Furcal.
I’m not inclined to spend money, or more importantly – years, to relievers. I wouldn’t mind a starter for a 1-2 year deal, or trading from the outfield depth for one after you figure out how SS will be addressed.
by Merry CRasmus on Oct 10, 2008 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
from what i could tell
some metrics have his defense above average and others right at average. although i think his range his below average which unfortunate since glaus would be to his right.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
Just my own two cents...
My personal dream trade would be Ankiel for Mark Beurhle. I know it’s not sexy, but it just makes too much sense, in my opinion. He would add another reliable arm to take pressure off Wainwright and Lohse.
Oh, and I suggest we try to trade Kennedy to Arizona for a bag of balls. Ok, so a AAAA pitcher would work too…
I'd trade Kennedy for a six pack of diet coke.
ok, so fourstick doesn’t like the Burrell idea…then I guess go after Perralta, or Furcal…I don’t like Cabrerra, and Renteria might work, but it won’t be the same ole’ Edgar.
I think we should get only 1 LHP, and see how Johnson holds up…remember, he was doing pretty well last year until tendinitis knocked him out. and he got overused.
I am still dreaming of a Burrell signing, but if that doesn’t happen…maybe we can get the “other” Rockies outfielder…Brad Hawpe!!! Come on, you know you wouldn’t mind him, especially if we get Furcal.
For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!
by miniboscorino on Oct 10, 2008 5:21 AM EDT up reply actions
And I just looked up his stats for this year
No Rocky Mountian air problems.
For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!
by miniboscorino on Oct 10, 2008 5:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Burrell is too expensive
and doesn’t field all that well. Short and second are the places to look for an upgrade.
by Red in Chicago on Oct 10, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
and we don't need a LF
Burrell’s a nice hitter but doesn’t at all fit our needs. I like Adam Dunn a lot, but he can’t play SS.
Can they play 2B though?
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Oct 13, 2008 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Going ideal with the position players
If Cleveland could use an outfielder, as has been suggested, then I wonder what it would take to get Asdrubal Cabrera. I would like to see an Ankiel for Cabrera trade. I don’t know what we would have to throw in to make it work. (If that doesn’t work, then we get Brandon Wood…although, I like the better defense at SS.)
Then, I would like to see us sign Renteria to play 2b. (Like I said…this is ideal for me.) Edgar has lost a step and will still be a good 2B as opposed to SS..
Now, I hit a road block. Both Kennedy and Miles have the option of being on the team for next year. I only want 1 back up MI. With Renteria at 2B, you have your backup shortstop option, so either Kennedy or Miles would only have to play 2B, which is completely perfect, because you don’t want either at SS. Miles has played his way back on to this team, whereas Kennedy has not. I would say you cut your losses at this point and offer Miles arbitration. Once he accepts, you cut Adam Kennedy, unless someone will take him in a trade.
Staying on the infield, at the backup CI spot, I have to say that I don’t know what else David Freese has to prove at AAA. The kid will be in his age 26 season. In 2006, he put up a redonkulous .964 OPS in various A ball leagues. In 2007, he dropped to an above acceptable .889 OPS in high A ball. Last year, he skipped AA and in AAA hit with a .911 OPS. He committed only 10 errors at 3B last year. Brett Wallace is obviously the bat of the future, and it could come soon, so why waste Freese in the minors any longer? It’ll open up the spot for Wallace to start at AAA.
Resign Jason LaRue, unless you think Anderson will benefit more from Yadi than from playing nearly every day in Memphis.
C – Yadi
C – LaRue/Anderson
1B – Albert
2B – Renteria
SS – Cabrera/Wood
3B – Glaus
MI – Miles
CI – Freese
LF – Skip/Mather
CF – Rasmus
RF – Ludwick
OF – Mather/Skip
OF – Barton/Stavinoha/Jones/Duncan/Other
This would leave a LOT of money to work with the pitching staff, which is where I think it should be spent.
I like the renteria at 2b idea
Renteria would be a great 2B, if he would go there. But I think you are undervaluing Ankiel. He is a gold glove centerfielder with 30 home run/100 RBI power in his prime.
Since we are dreaming:
Furcal SS
Ankiel CF
Pujols 1B
Manny LF
Ludwick RF
Glaus 3B
Molina C
Pitcher
Renteria 2B
With a bench of:
Rasmus OF
Mather/Barton OF
Freese 2b/3b
Barden/Lopez 2b/SS
LaRue C
Trade Schumaker, Kennedy
It would be costly, for a while too, but making the playoffs would be a certainty for at least the next two seasons and probably more since our minor leagues will be set to back up any fading stars, and the cost would be easily recovered via playoff revenues and merchandising. Roll the dice, DeWitt, bring in Manny and Furcal. I know it is a dream, but it is a good dream.
by abothecardinal on Oct 10, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
We have outfield depth and...
the trade for either Cabrera or Wood would likely shore up the SS position for 5 years. I do like Ankiel as much as anyone, but I’d say he is expendable at this point if he can bring back our franchise SS.
I can't see Raz on the bench.....
He either starts, is traded, or starts the year in AAA.
Contrary to what alot of folks think, I think the “where he plays” decision will have more to do with any potential moves we make, moreso than how well he performs in ST or anything like that.
I don't know
I think Rasmus as fourth outfielder would have plenty of at playing time with a Larussa managed outfield of Manny, Ankiel, and Ludwick.
by abothecardinal on Oct 10, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
if this season is like last season
there is no arguing with that logic
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Sure there is
That’s where you get at-bats for your back-up middle infielders.
What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs. ~Harry Caray
Raz
He’s either the 4th OF in St Louis or starting in Memphis. I really do not see him as the opening day CF for the big club. Maybe later in the season if he performs well – or Ank gets hurt again. either way it’s going to be interesting to see how it plays out.
Ankiel's also
a year away from free agency, has trade value, and, b/c of Rasmus, is eminently replaceable.
from what i've read
it sounds like they would rather move cabrera to SS and have peralta be the odd man out. although they do have josh rodriuez in the minors. he’s still a year or two away though.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
Look at Athletic Nation
the Oakland A’s SB Nation blog, and there they made an interesting trade proposal. Huston Street, Bobby Crosby, and Dan Meyer plus cash for Anderson and either Freese OR Craig. The A’s are probably the MLB team I know the least about so I can’t fully judge this proposal. Street used to be good but struggled this year. Bad year or injury problem? Same with Crosby, will he ever be good? Who the hell is Dan Meyer? How much do we like Anderson? I fully agree we should trade either Freese or Craig for something this year. Their value will never be higher and we have no need for both in the system. Please feel free to enlighten me on these issues or anyone else we could substitute in the deal.
Rasmus
The inclusion of Rasmus was only mentioned if they offer us Duchscherer and some other pieces. The whole debate is about what is Anderson actually worth.
AJ Burnett
MLBrumors.com is saying that he may want a 5 year deal, and that Toronto may not want to go that long.
Does a 5 year, $80M contract make any sense at all for STL? I don’t know. I’d love to have him, but that would take away any flexibility we had this offseason. Be tough to fill the other holes that we clearly have.
if we sign burnett
then our MI will be miles and iz2(maybe lopez) and our LHRP will be villone and flores
i’m ok with making an incentive based contract offer to brad penney
that and….SIGNING FURCAL….DO IT!!!
Injury risk!!!
We may already be paying Carp $15mil/yr to not pitch…I don’t think it would be good to have two guys making $15mil+/yr to not pitch.
looking at the injury history
i’d say no. even for a less years i’d say no. throwing 200+ innings he is bound to have a down year next year. plus he’ll be 32 at the start of the season.
looks pretty scary imo.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
You're really paying 30% more than that
on an innings-pitched basis, simply because Burnett will spend time on the shelf. With Carpenter’s situation and the whole five-year-pitcher-deals-can’t-be-insured stuff from the last go round, I give something like that happening in St. Louis about a 2 percent chance. They would be better off signing Sabathia for $20 million than Burnett for $15. Not that that would happen, either…
by Red in Chicago on Oct 10, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
When's the last time...
if ever a player made so much sense for the Cards that there was as much of a consensus to pursue him as there is now for Furcal? I’m just curious because I always consider the Cards VERY unlikely to sign high priced free agents, and generally brush off suggestions that we sign them…Furcal might be an exception.
i agree
i think Mo hopefully makes a call to tampa bay, cleveland, LAA, boston, and atlanta and if none of those options are available or if they will just cost too much i hope he makes a strong push for furcal.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
I'm not asking about other teams...
I’m asking about the Cards past. Trying to see, basically if there is any kind of precedent. Has there ever been a player that could fill both our biggest defensive and perhaps our biggest offensive needs at the same time? I understand that Raffy is a hot commodity, and will be handsomely rewarded. I also know that we went into recent offseasons with big question marks in spots (second base)…but was there anyone available who could have had the same impact Furcal could have for our boys next summer?
by cardzfanbub on Oct 11, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The last guy like that
was Scott Rolen when he first came over. You could say Larry Walker accomplished the same thing, though with less overall impact on defense just because his chances were fewer.
by Red in Chicago on Oct 11, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
2000
I want to say Fernando Vina had that effect both defensivly and offensivly settling the 2B spot and leadoff hitter, but we also added Jim Edmonds and Mike Matheny that same season – so maybe Vina’s impact wasn’t as much as i’d like to think it was.
I may be the outlier
But I don’t want Furcal. I love him as a player, but he will be too expensive. I don’t mind dreaming about getting Furcal, but as you stated, the Cards do not have a track record to outbidding others on the FA market. Jocketty’s record was based on small trades not outspending.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
I meant to say smart trades not small
D’oh.
e.g. Rolen, Edmonds.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
atlanta
how much do you think it would cost to get kelly johnson and lillibridge in a package from the braves?
it sounds like they are high on prado for 2B and lillibridge is obviously blocked as we all know. they could use outfielders i think but what else?
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
Trade with Atlanta
To get both of those guys we’d probably have to give up Rasmus + pitching/OF prospects or Todd, Boggs, and OF’s like Jay and Mather. They’re dealing from strength and they know it, and they waivered their best CF to Boston during the stretch run, so they’ll need someone to replace him out there. With Francoeur regressing and a platoon in left, it seems like they need OF help as much as anyone right now.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
that's the feeling i had too
i’m guessing they will get quite a few calls on those two players this offseason.
i’m just thinking that maybe we could work a deal around ankiel. I don’t know what kind of value the rest of the league is putting on him though (even pre-injury). i have a sneaky suspicion that we value him much more than everyone else. can you describe him as a less hitting adam dunn that plays better defense and plays center?
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
No, you can't
Because Dunn has posted an OBP better than .380 every single year he’s been in the majors. He’s also hit 40 homers before. Ankiel hasn’t done any of those things and he hasn’t been healthy for an entire MLB season yet either, and that includes his time as a pitcher.
If there’s one thing that we overvalue here more than anything else, it’s his defense. He’s not a GG caliber centerfielder, and most of the defensive metrics don’t have him rated as one either. He takes bad routes to the baseball pretty often and doesn’t have the speed to make up for bad routes or bad jumps. He has a killer arm, which everyone knows after the game at Colorado, but he’s pretty average in all other aspects. I think he would be an above average right fielder, but he’s not an above average center fielder imo.
Reminds me of the argument I used to have with people over who was better in their prime, Griffey or Edmonds. I would always say Griffey, because Ken would catch balls on the run that Jimmy would be diving for. He didn’t make a lot of spectacular plays, but Junior was the best CF around for most of the 1990’s.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
ankiel WAS a GG caliber CF
He was the best defender in baseball by RZR through the middle of July. It was the late august-september timeframe, when he hurt himself and was unable to run, yet TLR kept sending him out there, that made his defensive numbers look the way they do. He also lost almost 50 points of OPS in that timeframe.
The injury concern is a very valid one, and he is no Adam Dunn offensively, but he is a good CF when healthy and is worth more than Dunn overall.
the enemy's gate is down.
What would it take...
Realistically, to get Peavy from the Padres and Greinke from the Royals?
Do we have the chips to do that?
Ankiel, Anderson, and Boggs for Grienke
Rasmus, Perez/Motte, Craig, Jay/Jones, and Pineiro/Thompson for Peavy (slash lines mean either or, not both)
That would leave us with:
C – Molina
C – LaRue
1B – Pujols
2B – Miles/Kennedy
SS – Sign Furcal or Renteria?
MI – Miles/Kennedy
CI – Freese or Barden
LF – Mather
CF – Schumaker
RF – Ludwick
OF – Barton
OF – Duncan/Stavi/Jay or Jones
SP – Peavy
SP – Wainwright
SP – Greinke
SP – Lohse
SP – Wellemeyer
CP – Perez or Motte
SU – Springer
SU – Franklin
Loogy – Ohman/Marte/Beimel/someone
Loogy – see above
LR – Pineiro/Thompson
MR – McClellan
Is that the best staff in the the league, if healthy?
I don't think we have the pieces.....
Nor the desire to get both of them. Heck, we don’t need both of them.
At this point, we need to worry about the pen and the MI. If we can grab another SP, or make a change or two in the OF while we’re at it, great.
A trade will determine the direction of the offseason...
I think we’ll make at least 1 impact trade (regular starter or closer or SP). I’m not even saying Rasmus has to be involved, but its definitely a strong possibility of some deal. We have a lot of talented players, with a logjam at many positions. I like the Kelly Johnson idea, would Mortenson, Craig, and Jay get a deal done? Maybe we could steal a lefty from the trading team as well. I really like Lopez though, so is a deal really needed? Here is my current prediction for the offseason…
Sign Furcal- 3 years 13.5 M per
Sign Lopez- 2 years 5.5 M per
Sign Ohman- 2 years 5 M per
I’d like to say a trade is on the horizon, but where does that player really fit into the roster if we have the money to spend on these players? I guess a closer is a possibility, but it wouldn’t be my preference. I’d give Perez or Motte the ball and let them run with it. Elite closers are usually WAY overpaid. K-Rod and Fuentes will probably both get way more than they’ll be worth.
I really really wish we didn’t sign Lohse, this offseason would be WAY more exciting.
if we are going to trade OF's
i rather them be either skip, ankiel, or lud. i hope that’s the way Mo goes. two are over 30 and one is 29 at the start of next season. ank and lud also have bad injury history.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
Go all in for Peavy
Whatever it takes….and would probably need to include an everyday all star caliber player (Ludwick).
Then sign Furcal & Lopez and your lineup looks like this:
Furcal
Lopez
Pujols
Mather/Ankiel
Glaus
Mather/Ankiel
Molina
Pitcher
Schu/Barton
Rotation:
Wainwright
Peavy
Lohse
Wellemeyer
Piniero (imagine inserting Carp in this spot if healthy…WOW!!!)
Again if Carp can pitch, we would have 3 bonafied opening day starters in the same rotation. And Tony…please just name Perez the closer…PLEASE. The kid has done it well at every level. I don’t expect him to be Lidge of ’08, but I guarantee our overall save percantage would be much much better than this past season (of course how could it get any worse).
"Your mom likes Albert Pujols" - Happy Joe
by fatbellyjefferson on Oct 10, 2008 4:10 PM EDT reply actions
once again
i’m pretty sure that if we trade for a big contract SP, then we won’t be signing furcal(or cabrera or renteria)…if what MO said about our payroll is true, we don’t have enough room left to trade for peavy and sign furcal
it would be pretty sweet to have a waino, peavy, and a healthy carp in the same rotation…though i don’t think a healthy carp will ever happen again
man if only jocketty could have seen into the future, can you imagine all we could have gotten if we had traded carpenter after his cy young season
What are the supposed limitations according to MO?
From what I remember we had about 30MM to spend based on whats coming off the books. Lohse is 8MM, Peavy would be 11MM, and I’m sure Furcal will be in the 10-13MM range per year. I know we need a loogy and few guys are due raises. However, I would like to think (and maybe this is pure fantasy) that they’d be willing to stretch the payroll a few percent to bring on a guy like Jake Peavy.
"Your mom likes Albert Pujols" - Happy Joe
by fatbellyjefferson on Oct 10, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
oh i totally agree that they should be willing to stretch payroll
but i don’t think they would…i am basing it on an article by strauss i think…from a couple of weeks ago….don’t have the link and i guess i could be mistaken
i think it's important to remember also
that MLB teams may make a lot of payroll cutbacks — or at least holding payroll constant — in light of current economic conditions. They have no idea how many people will buy tickets, much less season tickets, and how many viewers they may use as people cut their cable packages down to the bare bones. There’s a lot of uncertainty and if the Cards don’t go haywire w/ their spending this offseason, it’s not just b/c DeWitt is cheap.
Um, you are forgetting something about Jake Peavy.
He is the poster boy for anti-pitch to contact. He specifically pitches to avoid contact. He always has. He is not at a stage of his career where he NEEDS to change, nor do I think he want to change, or should change. He is a power pitcher. They don’t prefer power pitchers. Period. I doubt he is even on LaRussa and Duncan’s wish list.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Exaggeration for effect?
Or do you honestly think they were pissed when guys like Stewart or Carp struck out 200 guys a year?
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
Carpenter struck out over 200 in 2005.
Please tell me the other times we have had a power pitcher. I was not aware that Stewart ever pitched for the Cardinals.
I don’t believe it to be an exaggeration to say they don’t prefer power pitchers, and if they were going after a big name pitcher, and LaRussa and Duncan got to choose, it would not be Peavy.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
I think Matt Morris qualified as a power pitcher.
Let’s just put it this way: If Peavy somehow wound up in the rotation, do you think LaRussa would refuse to start him and put him the bullpen?
by Red in Chicago on Oct 11, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I personally don't think of Matt Morris as a power pitcher.
He was a very good pitcher, a very effective pitcher, but he’s not my definition of a power pitcher-which is at or near 1 K per inning pitched.
My whole point is they won’t even acquire someone like Peavy to begin with. If Mozeliak brought him here anyway, he’d start him. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d also try to change the way he pitched.
Just look at the starting pitchers we’ve had here over the years. Very few of them were power pitchers. I happen to think that’s been because of LaRussa and Duncan’s preference. Honestly, I think they’d tell you the same thing.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
I think it has to do with the fact
that (good) power pitchers cost 15-20 million dollars a year, and the cardinals don’t spend that kind of jack on pitchers (sans a guy who, when healthy, strikes out 200 guys a year).
I wish we’d draft more “power” guys instead of “contact” guys (no offense, Mr Todd), but that’s a whole other debate.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
Plus the fact that
Duncan makes good steak out of hamburger. DeWitt can’t taste the difference.
by Red in Chicago on Oct 11, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
when Morris came up
he was definitely a power pitcher — so was Kile when he was acquired. I’m quite sure that neither Tony nor Dunc would tell Mo that they didn’t like Peavy b/c he strikes out too many people.
Definition of power pitcher...
At least how I see it anyway:
“Above average fastball (92-96, touching 97) and above average offspeed pitch, historically a great curve or slider (Nolan Ryan, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Randy Johnson, Beckett) — lately would also include a good splitter or change-up (Pedro, Clemens, Santana, Burnett). Able to pitch up in the zone effectively and records a 7-8 K/9.”
I would definitely put Morris in that category when he first came up since he had a great fastball and one of the better curveballs in the majors pre-surgery.
I don’t think that Tony and Dunc avoid power pitchers, I think they go after pitchers who can follow a gameplan and locate pitches. You know, “pitchers” as opposed to “throwers”.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
A few thoughts....
Chris Perez has to be the closer next year right? Come on… the kid backs down from no one… throws 97 and has a wicked slider (all be it sometimes erratic). I think signing Fuentes or anyone else would be a huge waste of resources. Let Perez close… if he stumbles you have Motte and possibly Izzy w a one year incentive laden deal.
With regard to Rasmus… I would hate to see him traded. The kid is going to be amazing… and personally I think he should be our starting CF next year under the condition that he hits 2nd in front of Albert. Committing to Rasmus frees up a lot of money somewhere. Put the kid in CF… Ricky in RF and Ludwick in LF… that is one hell of unit both offensively and defensively. It also has the added benefit of keeping Ankiel healthy. Anyone think taking him out of the physically demanding CF will help? I do.
I also think that Furcal has to be the number one target in FA. Only problem is that all indications are the Furcal is staying in LA… But this line up would be killer.
Furcal SS
Rasmus CF
Pujols 1B
Ludwick LF
Ankiel RF
Glaus 3B
Yadi C
P
Lopez 2B
Another added benefit here is the SPEED. Furcal and Rasmus each have 20-30+ SB speed. Not to mention Lopez who has wheels as well. That would add a totally new dimension to the O.
You then take the rest of the spare pieces and come up with a SP trade. In this hypo you have Duncan, Anderson, Jay, Freese, Craig, Boggs, Skip, etc… to trade. I think we have to trade Anderson, Craig and Freese… cuz lets be honest… Brett Wallace can rake and the kid is on the fast track. Sure Wallace’s best postion is 1st… but that isn’t happening… and you don’t keep bats like that out of the lineup cuz of fielding.
So lets throw Duncan, Anderson, and Craig/Freese in a package to land a SP (and you could probably get a pretty good one… Matt Cain?) That gives us a rotation of something like this…
Waino
Cain
Loshe
Welly
Carp(?)/Piniero
That is a team that could compete w the Cubs next year for sure
I like the way you think...
Perez is your man.
"Your mom likes Albert Pujols" - Happy Joe
by fatbellyjefferson on Oct 10, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Duncan would have to be a throw in
for any trade. There is no way he has any value until he proves he can come back from that surgery. So you need a new person at the front of that list. I still don’t think that is anywhere near enough to land Cain.
Young , stud pitcher that is signed through 2011.
Cain would be like getting the best FA pitcher value for the next 3 years.
2009- 2.65M
2010- 4.25M
2011- 6.25M
Any GM that would trade Cain for anything less than the 2 top, premium, blue chip prospects + others or a bona fide Major League power bat should probably be fired on the spot.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Hey, I agree with you.
There’s been a lot of rumors that Cain is available, but San Francisco has said emphatically that he is NOT available. In my mind it would be a fireable offense to send him away. Look what Seattle gave up for Bedard last year, then add more. Cain’s younger and under control longer……and even if you’re the Giants someone has to start your games. He goes nowhere, unless someone is willing to empty their farm system, and I mean completely empty it.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Cain also looked like crap for the last six months and SF needs offense badly.
From what I understand they are afraid Cain is going to get hurt or stop being effective.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
i feel like cain is one of those guys that could use a change of scenery
he pitches well, but get absolutely no run support…i’d like to see his peripherals in road starts
still i think jillsinmo is right…the farm system would have to be emptied to get him
I don't know I agree with your characterization that he "looked like crap."
He did go through a period of rough starts. He has historically gotten poor run support. That’s tough for him, I’m sure. But even San Fransico isn’t dumb enough to shed him for those reasons. He’s premium talent and like all pitchers not named Maddux, is an injury risk.
He’s the kind of guy you build around, not look to trade.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
First of all,
What is your point? That he is better than I think and that we should trade for him? That they won’t trade him and that this is all conjecture?
There is evidence for both sides, but personally I would love to get cain and I imagine that he probably is available. His BB/9 is still close to four, and he strikes out a lot of guys, but that isn’t the STL philosophy. Hopefully they can get on top of his walks and I think his numbers would greatly improve. Not that they are bad already, he’s above average, even counting his mediocre september.
The real problem is the package it would take to get him would be pretty big. Since I feel like we won’t win the WS in the tenure of Ankiel/Ludwick/Glaus, I think one of them would be the starting point for the deal, along with, say Anderson and Schu. Something like that.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
Young Pitcher
is NOT the man, if LaRussa’s words are taken at face value. Not yet, anyway.
I know, I know…
by Red in Chicago on Oct 11, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Perez
and think he would make a good closer, and probably the best one for the team next year. But I don’t believe Tony feels that way. I think it is more likely that we sign Fuentes or trade for Huston Street than it is that Perez is our closer next year. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Perez is wearing another uniform next spring. Bad move, but I think he has become this year’s Anthony Reyes.
This is my feeling too.
I think part of the problem is Tony’s affinity for Franklin. There are just too many short RH arms in the pen if Motte and Perez both stick. I have to believe Motte is a keeper at this point, though I suppose you could keep Perez and trade him instead.
The big problem, as I see it, is there’s no path from apprenticeship to closer unless you plan on trading one (Perez) or the other (Fuentes or his stand-in) after next year. You can’t let Perez languish.
by Red in Chicago on Oct 12, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Then why not trade Franklin?
Open a spot for the youngster. I do think either one of them has a chance to be as good as Franklin right now- with a chance to be a lot better. Let the future start now……
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Yes!
Let’s clean house in the pen. Get that bad karma out of there, foot fungus, or whatever it is…
by Red in Chicago on Oct 13, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I like most of what you said...
Except this:
Furcal and Rasmus each have 20-30+ SB speed.
If they are hitting ahead of Albert, I don’t expect to see them running much at all, considering that just opens up first base to put Albert on. If you had Colby down in the order, hitting 5th or 6th, I think that his speed becomes more of an asset in the SB category. Their speed is an asset on the basepaths simply because they put pressure on the opposing teams to make plays quickly and to keep them from going 1st to 3rd on a single or scoring from 1st on a double.
As exciting as SB’s are, I don’t see this team running a whole lot with a lineup stacked with high OBP players and 4 guys with 30+ homer potential. It just doesn’t make sense to run that much with all the firepower in the lineup.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Not necessarily disagreeing
But how about a team that plays both small ball and hit homers? SBs doesn’t necessarily have to hamper the HR potential? If there is SB, and someone’s put on first, doesn’t that mean a greater potential for a crooked inning? Of course all 4 guyes with the 30+ potential have to meet that potential to not have the walkfest we sometimes saw last year, i.e. just walk guys until we get to a steep drop off in our lineup.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
My view
Tradeable by “value” ranking
1. OF – Rasmus
2. OF – Ludwick
3. 3B – Glaus
4. C – Andersen
5. OF – Ankiel
6. RP – Franklin
I just don’t see Skippy, Dunc, et. all as worth anything on the free market. My proposals:
1. Ludwick and Daryl Jones to the Yanks for Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy
2. Glaus and B. Anderson to the Angels for Brandon Wood and Nick Adenhart
I would then sign Renteria for 3/15 as my IF supersub. So we would be left with this:
CF – Colby Rasmus
2B – Mark Ellis/Renteria
1B – Albert Pujols
RF – Rick Ankiel
LF Chris Duncan (Mather against RH)
3B – Freese/Brett Wallace
SS – Brandon Wood/Renteria
C – Yadier Molina
P Spot
SP Depth Chart
1SP – A Wainright
2SP – C Carpenter (PLEASE)
3SP – K Lohse
4SP – Welley
5SP – P Hughes
6SP – I Kennedy
7SP – J Piniero
8SP – Boggs
RP Depth Chart
CP – C. Perez
SU – R Franklin
SU – Motte
RP – Worrell
RP – Johnson
RP – Warm bodied LOOGY
Longman – Piniero, PJ, Mort
The deals would serve to decrease payroll so lets do it!
there is no way
the yankees will not trade hughes AND kennedy for jones and ludwick….i doubt they would trade hughes OR kennedy for jones and ludwick…remember cashman wouldnt unload those guys for santana…can you imagine the flack he would get for trading them for a prospect who may or may not make it as a professional and a slugger who has had one good year and may or may not be a fluke
i don’t want to trade glaus…none of our 3b prospects have proved they are ready to be a starting 3B at the big league level next season(i think that all three of them could be, but not in 2009)…plus not sure why the angels would want glaus back for one year if it took wood and adenhart, even with anderson as part of the deal
lord help us all if chris duncan is our left fielder next season with all of the outfield depth we have
Interesting feedback
Lets break it down:
….I doubt they would trade hughes OR Kennedy for Jones and Ludwick….
Go to a Yankees board. I am guessing 99 out of 100 people with grey matter would trade Kennedy for Jones and Ludwick.. Now Phil Hughes on the other hand, you would only trade if you really wanted Ludwick. The inclusion of Jones would just be to sweeten the deal. You could effectively take out Kennedy as he is viewed as a #4/#5 at this point and is a commodity without a ton of value for a team like the Yanks. The other possibility is Phil Hughes straight up for Colby which I would wager the Yanks would do as well…
….none of our 3B have have provied they are ready to a be a starting 3B……
Have you seen Freese’s numbers? Do you know Wallace will probably be ready by end of next year? Have you heard of Allen Craig? 3B is a position of strength for the Cards. Freese is ready now. Craig and Wallace likely by end of next year. The Angels need a third sacker with pop, the Cards need a SS. The Angels have given up on Wood. Admittedly if Adenhart was holding up this deal I would do it without him but then I wouldn’t give the Angels Andersen.
….lord help us if Chris Duncan is out LF…..
Do you remember who is managing the team? Do you think LaRussa is going to sit Duncan if he is healthy? Dunc will get a shot all with Schumaker. Schumaker makes it to the extent we need a leadoff slappy OF – Dunc to the extent he gets his power stroke back… I think Dunc could easliy finished 09 with an 860 OPS which would outpace Skippy’s likely 770. Defense obviously has value, but so does Power. A year ago many thought Dunc was a poor man’s Adam Dunn. I think 09 will serve to prove if that hypothesis is right or wrong…
so you are agreeing with basically everything i said?
there is a small chance they trade kennedy for jones and ludwick….which is what i said…no way the trade both hughes and kennedy…and i am not sure i am ok with trading luddy and jones for a pitcher who has not shown he can make it in the majors yet…there is a reason 99 out of 100 yankees fans would be ok with that trade
i have seen freese’s numbers…i have even seen him play 5 times at memphis, …and i do think he could be a starting 3B for some teams, but i don’t think he would be better than glaus next year, and i don’t think the angels would give up wood for one year of glaus, no matter how much they have given up on him….they could get a better deal than that
i’m not trying to say that your ideas are bad for the cardinals…they would be ok in some of the cases…i am just saying that i really don’t think the other teams would do it
if we have rasmus next season, then our starting outfield better be luddy, rasmus, and ank…even if we trade away one of those guys, god help us if duncan is a starting outfielder….the beginning of last season, he was not injured, and he also wasn’t hitting…the league figured him out…he was never a big time prospect in the minors, he got hot for about a year and half, and then he got figured out….he will never be a poor man’s dunn, and an 860 ops is somewhat optimistic in my opinion…maybe i am wrong…hopefully i am wrong…even if i am wrong about his bat…his defense is pretty terrible.
also, i’m a physical therapist…i would be shocked if he came back even near his previous ability with the next injury…people who have that type of injury have to go on disability in some cases because of the pain and lack of range of motion….that is why is say god help us all
by VolsnCards5 on Oct 11, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
You can't trade Glaus
He has a no-trade clause, and it would basically be a betrayal of the deal he and the club worked out last year.
by Red in Chicago on Oct 11, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Glaus COULD be traded
if the other team extended the contract — of course, Glaus would have to agree to it. I still find it unlikely but it’s possible. He’s playing next year for his final contract so if he could get a guaranteed extension, he might agree to it. I don’t think Tony, however, would want to trade Glaus — a vet and proven power hitter — in order to put Freese or Craig at third to start the season. He’d raise holy hell. It’s just not going to happen.
I wonder if they might even do a one-year deal with Glaus
before the season ends. That would assume Mr. Walrus isn’t a third baseman anymore, or if he is, that he won’t be ready by the start of 2010.
by Red in Chicago on Oct 12, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
i expect
the walrus to go the way of laporta
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
I don't think so.....
We don’t have alot of promising young hitters in the system, or on the roster. In the system you have Raz, Wallace, and maybe Jones. On the roster, nobody really stands out as super young, save maybe Mather, and I’m still not sure of his upside.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on Oct 13, 2008 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
or
reading the mi options makes me wonder what wallace is worth. laporta was key to getting sabathia and profiles much like wallace. seems to me an extension for glaus for a couple years and making wallace available might get us some serious mi help. seems he is a more intriguing prospect than freese or craig for most teams.
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
need to wait a year
Don’t think he is allowed to be dealt until he has been with the team for a year. So after this years draft.
by Merry CRasmus on Oct 12, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
we can't trade him until June 1
but we could trade a player to be named later and, after June 1, name that player Brett Wallace.
so the giants released Kevin Correia
He kind of fits the mold of guys Duncan can “fix” – coming off of a ridiculously high BABIP season (.339), walks a lot of guys, doesn’t K that many but keeps the ball in the park.
He’s a guy I’ve always liked, and while he hasn’t come anywhere near being the pitcher I thought he’d be, he’ll be a free agent who won’t cost us any draft picks or players in trade. Seems like a good scrap heap pickup.
Thoughts? He’s lost 2 MPH off his (never very fast) fastball since ’05, which is a concern, though that seems to map pretty well to usage in relief or as a starter.
the enemy's gate is down.
I think the lack of HR's
probably has something to do with the fact that he pitches in a park that doesn’t allow many anyway.
I don’t think the he is the type of guy that Duncan is historically able to turn around. He doesn’t locate the ball very well, and doesn’t have two above average pitches, unless his fastball returns to where it was in 2005. I don’t think he’s Piniero 2.0 — he’s much more like Marquis 2.0 or Kip Wells 2.0 to me — the former being the high end of the equation and the latter being the low end of it. I don’t think that he’s any better than Boggs at this point, so why would we take a flyer on him?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Peavy
Here is the question I would have for everyone. What would you be willing to give up as the GM to get Jake Peavy? It could range from nothing because you don’t want him to anything because you really want him. This isnt about what it would take to get him, just what you are willing to offer to get him.
This topic has been covered in depth in the "Trading Rasmus" fanpost...
I would give up one major league player and 3 decent prospects or one top prospect and a couple of other good prospects.
Examples:
Skip, Boggs, Jay, Lynn (this probably wouldn’t be enough, but it’s just an example)
or
Rasmus, Boggs, Craig (this is as high as I would go: that’s our best position and pitching prospects as well as a good young third basemen)
I would make sure that I had a couple of different doctors look over his elbow before this deal would be final as well.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
In lieu of the information...
That Peavy will require any team to pick up the 5th yr option as conditions for the trade makes the idea a little less attractive.
Peavy – 09:$8M, 10:$15M, 11:$16M, 12:$17M, 13: $22M
Potential Rotation = Peavy, Loshe, Wainwright, Wellemeyer, Carpenter w/Boggs, McClellan, Thompson as replacement/injury insurance.
I would be very hesitant to give up Boggs. I like his potential to be insurance for Carp and a cost controlled 2010 – 201x rotation replacement for Wellemeyer.
With Peavy due $22M 2013, Loshe due almost $12M, Carp’s $15M option, Wainwright’s $9M option, Molina’s $7M option — as well as Albert’s extention kicking in that same season at probably $20 -$25M, I would be very hesitant to give up Rasmus as well. Most certainly the Cardinals would (will) not be able to afford to keep Ludwick and Ankiel. Our supposed depth at OF might be required to be kept. Rasmus, Jay, Jones, Mather, and Barton all appear to be on the track to becoming MLB players (although we never know how good they might be), and in 2013 all would be necessary as cost controlled players.
Trade chips that do not hurt the 09 depth: Anderson, Freeze, Craig as well as any pitching prospect not named Boggs.
Perez is also a player we probably need to keep as a cost controlled closer – not to mention he could be really really good. Certianly the padres would have interest in him as Hoffman is 40 yrs old (and a free agent).
In summary, I would not give up Boggs or Perez to get Peavy, and I’d really have to understand what we have in Jay and Jones before gving up Rasmus. Anybody else would be fair game.
Either way, I’d make the padres throw in a MI like Khalil Greene, Luis Rodriguez,, or Matt Antonelli as well as a young lefty like Joe Thacher or Wade LeBlanc.
Peavy and Khalil would be sweet.
Send em Rasmus,Anderson, Kozma, and Schumacher.
They get a future CA, SS, and 2 plus OF’s and we get a SS, Ace pitcher.
Hell maybe they want Freese back too.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
They want pitching.....
Two young pitchers, and a CF of some kind.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
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- Ask Alex: Will Julio Teheran or Matt Moore win rookie of the year?
- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
- The Cardinals Hall of Fame can now be found at Bill Clinton’s library in Arkansas (Huh?)
- Will Bryce Harper start the season with the Nationals?
- Mitch Mustain puts football behind him, signs reported rookie deal with White Sox
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