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Ohh_yeah_tiny by miniboscorino on

I'm new, so my posts are going to be pretty crappy at first, especially after coming from the disorganized mess of ESPN boards.

Anyway, anyone think there's a possibility of the Cards signing Pat Burrell?  I think the first move the Cards make in the offseason regarding trades/free agents (Not counting Lohse) is going to set the stage for the rest of the offseason.

What I mean is, if the Cards get Furcal...then Schu (just an example, it would be an OF) gets traded along with a few others and that opens the door for that "luxury" "presence" that I keep hearing about.  Or, if the Cards resign Lopez, we might get to see Edgar again, or Cabrerra, and then we get a decent starting pitcher.  Anyone think Roberts is a possibility?

It seems to me that the team can take two paths this offseason...they can make the big splash by getting someone like Burrell, or go the cheaper way and build up the supporting group, which would leave some money for a ?Lowe?  Either way, I think the team is going to get old in few positions, perhaps sacrifice defense for more production, and we're going to see a few players paid too much.

P.S.  Where's Kennedy going to end up?

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Just to add to this….go look up Burrell’s stats, yes he strikes out a lot, and doesn’t hit for a high average, but look at how many walks he has in the past 3-4 years, that wouldn’t happen if he was in a Cards uni, because he would hit 4th, not 6th. He might end up with 40 home runs if he were playing for the Cards next year.

by miniboscorino on Oct 6, 2008 3:18 AM EDT   0 recs

40 Homers....

….but about 200 strike outs and a .250 average. if we’re gonna spend the dough on a big splash outfielder I’d rather it go to Holiday than Burrell. We don’t need the clean up guy walking, we need him hitting. We already have Troy Glause to walk for us.

by The MooCow on Oct 6, 2008 8:48 AM EDT   0 recs

+1

Holliday is much younger, and I know everyone talks about his splits away from Coors being terrible but an away line of .308/.405/.486 for this season isn’t dreadful, I would just like to see the SLG% raised a little.

Ryan Howard: one of the most Statistically Outstanding players of all time

by RunninRedbird on Oct 6, 2008 11:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I like Burrell...

I just don’t see this team handing a guy his age the contract he’s gonna demand. OF is our STRONGEST position, and every single guy we have for the OF is cost controlled. I’m sure TLR would/will push hard for something like this, and I hope MO is smart enough to ignore it. In a couple of years we are likely to have a couple of contracts that really are hurting this team (Carp and Lohse) I don’t think it’s a good idea to add an expensive FA to more than a two year deal.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 6, 2008 9:00 AM EDT   0 recs

I understand...

… You might be worried about going out and spending a load on an outfielder when 1) We seem to have a handful of capable outfielders already and 2) we have those questionable contracts. But I think we need to remember a few things. First with pitchers 1) There is no reason at this point to think that Loshe’s contract is going to bite us in the ass, and 2) I don’t think Carp is done, I know it is wishful thinking, but Toronto left his career for dead and look what he did with us, this guy is a healer. As far as your comments about the outfield, we have a lot of talent there, but these guys are relatively untested. Shu- is at best a place holder in the outfield and an average leadoff man, I’m not putting my eggs in the Ludwick basket until I see him reproduce a little, Ank as much as I love him still makes me nervous for his health every time he steps out there, and Rasmus hasn’t even put on a STL uniform yet. I don’t think spending some money to go out and get a seasoned proven outfielder can hurt. I don’t think Burrell is that guy though, like ‘the moo cow’ and ’ mini boscoriono’ said he isn’t exactly the type of power/average we are looking for. Holiday would be a perfect fit, always tops in average in the league with some above average pop and a little speed on the bags, to hit right behind/in front of Prince Albert. They are both perennial MVP caliber and would protect each other, plus Colorado was shopping him at the trade deadline… they may be willing. All I know is that if we ended up getting Holliday (without loosing Rasmus) my first son would be named Jon Mozeliak.

by Viva Vina on Oct 6, 2008 10:12 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

nope
getting Holliday (without loosing Rasmus)

That wouldn’t happen unless we could somehow convince the Rockies that Rasmus has a flesh eating virus and won’t ever play baseball again.

They don’t need a catcher, which is the only other top prospect the Cards have that’s worth dealing for. They are currently starting a black hole in CF (Taveras) and the players they have to replace him don’t project as leadoff men. If Mo were to acquire about Holliday, the trade talk starts and stops with Colby Rasmus.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 6, 2008 10:20 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Reproduce?

Man, if Ludwick reproduces, that kid is going to be at least 19-22 years away from cracking the starting lineup.

What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs. ~Harry Caray

by Tupelo on Oct 8, 2008 9:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why would you pay a guy $15-$20 million for something you already have in spades?

We currently have 2 players in our outfield that could be projected to hit 30+ homers — Ankiel and Ludwick. Ank may have hit 40 homers this year had he been able to stay healthy. We also have another 25-35 homer guy in Chris Duncan if he’s ever going to get healthy again - which remains to be seen. Joe Mather could probably hit 30 homers if he got 500 AB’s in the Cardinal outfield. Not to mention that all of those guys, save Duncan, play better outfield defense than Pat Burrell. You’re basically paying a $10M$12M premium for a guy that walks a lot…..that just doesn’t seem like a wise investment. Chris Duncan walks a lot too, and he’s a lot cheaper even if he isn’t hitting homers.

What I mean is, if the Cards get Furcal…then Schu (just an example, it would be an OF) gets traded along with a few others and that opens the door for that “luxury” “presence” that I keep hearing about. Or, if the Cards resign Lopez, we might get to see Edgar again, or Cabrerra, and then we get a decent starting pitcher. Anyone think Roberts is a possibility?
  1. If the Cards get Furcal, they won’t be signing someone else for $15M because Furcal will cost them $13M+ over 3-5 years.
  2. Schu’s opportunity trade cost is probably low. In other words, he’s worth more to the Cardinals than he would be worth to someone trading for him. If you platoon him and Barton in LF, that’s pretty good bang for your buck in the leadoff spot.
  3. Renteria is making big $$$ next season and we’d have to trade for him. Cabrera will be looking for one more big payday and he isn’t that much of an upgrade over Izturis, imo.
  4. Lopez should be re-signed to a one or two year deal ($3M or $6M) to play second base.
  5. Roberts probably isn’t a realistic option at this time, he’s the face of the Oriole franchise right now and their ownership isn’t good at making decisions that impact the future of the ballclub.
P.S. Where’s Kennedy going to end up?

Hopefully basking in the sun in the Caribbean living off the $3 million the Cardinals will pay him to disappear in the offseason.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 6, 2008 10:31 AM EDT   0 recs

I think Renteria's option was declined.....

They might offer arbitration, but he is a FA. At least, that is my understanding.

by SoonerfanTU on Oct 6, 2008 10:38 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Renteria's...

option will be declined according to what I’ve read. I have no idea what he may get offered as a FA.

I think Schu has a little more trade value than you give him credit for, but I do see where he has value to this team (I’m kinda a sell high guy, and I don’t see Skip getting much higher). Fact is, at some point something’s gotta give in the OF. Ludwick, Ankiel, Schu, Rasmus, Mather, Duncan, Barton, and even Jon Jay are ready (or will be at some point next year) to play in the bigs. We’ve only go room for five (obviously including bench guys – I’m not sure any of these guys are “bench” guys). I like a Ludwick, Mather, Rasmus OF for the long term.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 6, 2008 10:45 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Didn't know that about Edgar

Although signing him solves only one of the two problems because he can’t lead off. If you sign Renteria, Schumaker isn’t as expendable because of the lack of a leadoff hitter. Furcal solves both problems because he is a great leadoff hitter.

Yes, something does have to give in the outfield in this offseason. I totally agree with that. I agree that Schumaker’s value hasn’t ever been higher than it is right now. What I’m saying is that his value isn’t as high as that of someone like Rasmus or Mather because he’s strictly a platoon outfielder — his numbers would be much worse if he had to take 250-300 AB’s against lefties over the course of as season. In other words, you could get a blue chip middle infield prospect or a solid MLB middle infielder for Rasmus (think Pedroia two years ago or Tulo before last year), and probably a good prospect or veteran middle infielder for Mather (Reid Brignac, Ben Zobrist, Brent Lillibridge). I don’t think any team is going to make a deal for Schumaker that even approaches what you could get for the other two. I could be totally wrong, but I don’t think so, because I can’t think of an outfielder with Schumaker’s limitations that’s ever garnered a solid player or good prospect in return.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 6, 2008 4:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I totally agree with Skip's value...

vs. Rasmus and/or Mather, but they also have more value on the Cards than does Skip. Maybe some team thinks they can approve his ability vs. LHP…he’s still fairly young, and has come a LONG way in a short time. Also, 250-300 AB’s vs. LHP seems a bit high. Jose Reyes led baseball in AB’s, and only face LH’s 200 times; Ichiro had the most in the AL, and say only 208 lefties. Skimming through a few players splits for 2008 just under 30% seems to be the normal portion vs. LH…around 180 AB’s out of 600.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 6, 2008 7:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1 on your title

What do we have now — 7 guys planning on coming to ST to compete for a spot in the outfield? (Ludwick, Ankiel, Rasmus, Skip, Barton, Duncan, Mather). I thought you were supposed to deal from a strength to improve a weakness, not improve strengths while ignoring weaknesses.

Also, why on gods green earth would we pay truck loads of cash for performance we can duplicate (or come very close to) for a fraction of the cost?

by Ray Lankford on Oct 6, 2008 5:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

pony up

Just sign Manny, he’s better than Holiday and he wouldn’t cost us Rasmus.

by abothecardinal on Oct 6, 2008 10:31 AM EDT   0 recs

Might make sense...

you’d have to ask whether he’s worth about $7 million a year more than Burrell who is 4.5 years younger than Manny. Both of these guys will probably get 3 or 4 year deals Manny for $18-22Mil/year Burrell for $12-15Mil per year. Manny has been one of the best hitters in the league for a lot of years (OPS’s over 1 don’t grow on trees) he’s also been a headache and in decline for two years (sans three months in LA).

There is not one FA I want to see the Cards sign to more than a two year deal (including Lohse..DOH!!). If this can’t be done, I hope we can get something done via trade…otherwise I’d rather go to war with the current troops (Lopez and Iz2 included – if Lopez will sign for $3mil/yr).

by cardzfanbub on Oct 6, 2008 10:57 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Manny

Let’s just assume that you could deal Ankiel, Mather, and Todd for a great SS like Jose Reyes. I could make a good argument about how this would be a solid deal for the Mets, who could then go get someone like Furcal to play SS for them, but that’s a whole different post.

If you make that deal, and you could get Manny for 3 years and $60 million, don’t you have to sign him? Think about Albert, Manny, Ludwick, and Glaus hitting 3.4.5.6. That’s a modern day murderers row. Albert would get a ton more pitches to hit with Manny batting back there, Card fans would appreciate his eccentricities, and most of his problems in Boston (outside of fans not appreciating him) came from the fact that the club let a lot of his Spanish speaking buddies go without attempting to resign them. With Molina, Pujols, and Reyes on the team, I don’t think Manny would be a problem here. Dealing with TLR might be a whole different story, but wouldn’t he be the impact bat that Tony wants? If he was willing to sign Bonds, who hasn’t run out a ground ball since 2001, Tony would have to be ok with Manny.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 6, 2008 4:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I would absolutely love that lineup

Reyes
Raz
Apu
Manny
Luddy
Santa
Molina
Waino
Lopez. Miles, AK (yes, I said AK, because who cares about his offensive production in THAT lineup)

That would be the best lineup in baseball, but would Reyes be as exciting outside of New York?
Geezlufreakinfwheez, can you please be MO?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 6, 2008 6:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Can we get some trade ideas from our current universe?

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Oct 6, 2008 9:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess now I have to make this make sense to you don't I

Because you can’t just assume one scenario so I can ask a hypothetical question. The post had nothing to do about this particular trade — it was about the possibility of signing Manny if we could move some of our outfield depth for a SS or SP that allows us to win now.

If you’re the Mets, you have the money to sign Furcal, who when healthy is probably just as good as Jose Reyes, as he proved at the beginning of this season. If they put Reyes on the block, there will be a myriad of takers, but only a couple could probably pony up as much MLB ready talent as the Cardinals could right now (Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels, or Rays). If you’re the Mets, you can get Ankiel, who moves to right field and pushes Ryan Church to LF, Mather, who would be your 4th OF and backup 1B for when Carlos Delgado finally hits a wall, and either Boggs or Todd or both, who could probably make their starting rotation next year, which is where they need the most help. In all, it’s not a horrible trade for them. I’m sure they’d rather have Rasmus, but I’d trade Rasmus for Jose Reyes in a heartbeat since Reyes would give us a chance to win the next couple of years.

I can think of worse trades for the Mets, and this one would actually make their ballclub much better overall, assuming they get Furcal to replace Reyes.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 7, 2008 12:17 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

About Castillo

Would he be an option as well? I don’t like his major contract, and injury issues, but the Mets want him gone….

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Oct 7, 2008 1:45 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think it's impossible...

but I think they’d want Wellemeyer instead of Boggs or Todd. The Mets are a win-now team, and I’m not sure Boggs or Todd are win-now players.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 7, 2008 11:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

the Mets are always a win now team

but Boggs or Todd give them several years of cheap pitching. If the Mets do make a run at CC (and with that new stadium opening, it isn’t out of the question), then they would probably like to have some of that cheap, long term, young pitching to go along with two monster contracts in their rotation.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 7, 2008 7:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yeesh

from mlbtr: “Agent Scott Boras has let it be known through his media outlets that the expectation is
at least five years and $85 million in a deal for Manny Ramirez.”

Pass…

link

the enemy's gate is down.

by SleepyCA on Oct 7, 2008 1:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

that's more years..

but less dollars per ($17mil) than I expected. 3 years $60 mil ($20 mil per) or 4 years $72 mil ($18 mil per) might get it done. Not that I think the Cards should do that.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 7, 2008 11:49 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I love this post

But I don’t think the mets would get rid of Reyes for an older player with injury issues who can’t steal as many bases

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Oct 7, 2008 1:54 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

ugh

please no more posts about acquiring outfielders; we need to UNLOAD outfielders

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 6, 2008 1:37 PM EDT   0 recs

The problem is Schu is a LEADOFF HITTER, isnt that what Rasmus would probably be to start off, or if we got a Roberts or Furcal…even though people don’t see that happening. The fact is, if Schu continues to be our leadoff hitter, then we have to get a power SS or 2B, and those choices are slim…Johnson and Perralta come to mind, and that Mariners 2B, ?Jose Lopez?

by miniboscorino on Oct 6, 2008 4:20 PM EDT   0 recs

I don't want Rasmus.....

leading off to begin the year. That dude gets off to horrible starts at new levels, and that may be something he does each year. He needs to bat lower in the lineup until he shows he has broken out of that, or until he heats up later in the season.

by SoonerfanTU on Oct 6, 2008 4:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't worry

he wont be. unless a trade happens and Duncan is medically unfit, i expect Rasmus to start the season in memphis.

by Knighttime on Oct 7, 2008 11:26 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why do we need a power hitting SS then?

I don’t get your logic. As I pointed out above, Pujols, Ludwick, Glaus, and Ankiel all have the potential to hit 30+ homers. Can you name another team in the National league that has 4 guys who have the potential to hit 30+ homers? I can’t.

You’re presenting a false choice in saying that having Skip leading off requires us to get a SS with some power. Why not just sign someone who is great with the glove and gets on base a .340 clip? That guy could bat in the 9 hole and be the second leadoff man. If you re-sign Lopez, he probably bats second and the lineup looks something like this:

Schumaker
Lopez
Pujols
Ludwick
Glaus
Ankiel
Molina
P
.340 OBP SS

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 6, 2008 4:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

NL Teams that could have four 30-homer guys (possibly)

Milwaukee
Fielder
Braun
Hardy
Cameron

Chicago
Soto
Soriano
Ramirez
Edmonds/Lee

Houston
Pence
Lee
Wigginton
Berkman

Cinci
Votto
Phillips
Encarnacion
Bruce

Philly
Howard
Utley
Burrell – might be losing him
Worth

Florida
everywhere but C could

Those teams all got as close as the Cardinals…other than that, I agree.

by stlfan on Oct 7, 2008 12:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't totally disagree...

but I think the Cards have legitimate 30 HR guys while at least one guy for these listed are “in their best year 30 HR guys.” Cameron, Soto, Pence, Wiggington, Encarnacion, Worth (don’t think he could do it). Glaus is the only guy I would question for the Cards, as his age/health make it difficult. Pujols and Luddy did it this year, and Ankiel would have if not for his back.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 7, 2008 11:56 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

of course, glaus had just 3 HR on June 1

so he could easily do much better than 26 next year, if he has a decent april/may…

Ank, Luddy, and glaus really all have an outside shot at being 40 HR guys. Wouldn’t THAT be fun?

And then there’s the wild cards, Mather, Rasmus and Duncan. I’d put all of them as more likely to hit 30 than half the guys on the list above, though of course colby isn’t ready to do it in ’09.

the enemy's gate is down.

by SleepyCA on Oct 7, 2008 12:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe fourstick

should have said name another team that has 4 X 40 HR potential…

by cardzfanbub on Oct 7, 2008 5:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ank has a great shot

at 40 home runs, but I’d say unless Albert finds that other gear he had until 06(surgery, gulp), he won’t get 40, I’d put Luddy down for 35 if he keeps up what he did this year, and Glaus at 30 perhaps.

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Oct 7, 2008 7:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ank has a better shot at 40 HRs than APu?

I would agree with you, but not because of some “other gear” he had. I would have to say the main reason he won’t hit 40HRs is because teams are gonna keep on not pitching to him.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Oct 7, 2008 7:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And because a lot of times...

Albert’s swing is not meant to hit the long ball. He’s trying to get a base hit to drive in a run or two runs. He cuts down on his swing with two strikes. If Albert wanted to, he could probably hit .265 with 50 homers.

by stlfan on Oct 8, 2008 11:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Adam Kennedy had a .321 OBP, it didn't get us that far...

The Cardinals seriously lacked offensive consistency at both MI spots, besides for Miles and Lopez, who are part timers….when you look at the Cardinals lineup this year, what was one thing you wish they had? I know I wish we had a MI who could hit 15 home runs and drive in 50-60 rbis, the next wish would be the bat behind Pujols, which I admit would be a luxury, and not a necessity. When you have a chance to solve both those problems, wouldn’t you take it?

Would you agree that Schu is a replaceable piece that can be plugged into another spot?

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Oct 7, 2008 2:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

but about 200 strike outs and a .250 average. if we’re gonna spend the dough on a big splash outfielder I’d rather it go to Holiday than Burrell. We don’t need the clean up guy walking, we need him hitting. We already have Troy Glause to walk for us

If you read my point about his 100 walks, he has those walks because he hits 5th and 6th in the Phillies lineup, thats also why he only has 80 or so RBI’s this year, he is a dangerous hitter that is being walked so they can deal with the catcher. Put him 4th in the cards lineup, with Glaus and Ankiel/Luddy behind him, he wont be getting walked, and will get a lot of pitches to hit.

by miniboscorino on Oct 6, 2008 4:24 PM EDT   0 recs

I see your point

but he wouldn’t hit 4th for the Cardinals, he’d probably hit 5th and bump Glaus down to 6th. I still don’t think that makes it ok to pay $15M+ a year for him when you have lower cost alternatives and huge holes at other positions.

Our outfield and lineup production was not bad last year. If you add a good stick at that SS position the lineup gets better than keeping Iz2 and signing Burrell to replace Schumaker.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 6, 2008 4:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well

I was speaking from the hypothetical idea that he would hit 4th….If the cards were to get Burrell, they would need to keep a defensive replacement for late innings anyway…cue Rasmus?

Say the cards got Burrell, who is a sure deal in most of his numbers, then the cards would be able to unload most of the outfield surplus with the knowledge that there is a certainty in LF, unlike this jumbled mess we have watched for a year now.

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Oct 6, 2008 11:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

who plays SS?

we got this production out of our LF this year: .267/.348/.426 OPS: .774

we got this production out of our SS: .268/.319/.316 OPS: .635

That’s 139 points of OPS. And that’s with Aaron Miles having a career year at the plate and playing a lot at SS, a position that he has no business playing at the big league level. If Iz2/Ryan gotten all the AB’s, we’re looking at a difference of probably 200 points of OPS, especially if Skip didn’t have to play CF for the entire month of September because Ankiel was hurt. Now:

Burrell 2008: .250/.367/.507 OPS: .874

He’s exactly .100 points better in OPS over our current SS. Let’s say we sign Furcal:

Furcal 2006 (his last full season): .300/.369/.445 OPS: .814

That’s almost .200 points better OPS than our SS hit this year. So, would you take a 100 point improvement over a 200 point improvement, when the monetary cost is almost exactly the same? No, you’d be crazy to do that, and I’m not even factoring in that Furcal is nearly as good as Iz2 at SS and worlds ahead of Miles in field and Ryan at the plate, while Burrell is a defensive downgrade from Schumaker. With Furcal, my lineup looks like this:

Furcal
Schumaker
Pujols
Ludwick
Glaus
Ankiel
Molina
P
Lopez

Putting Furcal and Schu at the top of the lineup would create TONS of opportunities for Albert to drive in runs. I bet if you run this through a lineup analysis, my lineup scores more runs than any lineup with Burrell and Iz2 or Miles in it, regardless of where you bat Burrell.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 7, 2008 12:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Edit...
He’s exactly .100 points better in OPS over our current SS LF.

And I forgot to point out that in my lineup Schumaker would be platooning with either Barton or Mather, who would play against lefties. This is where our OF depth is a good thing.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 7, 2008 12:36 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

However, would you rather have Schu or Lopez hitting 2nd, as Lopez and Furcal are switch hitters….

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Oct 7, 2008 1:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Doesn't really matter

Schu is a platoon, so he’s a switch hitter as well, only it’d be Barton hitting there instead of Schumaker.

I think Skip has better on-base ability than Lopez, he doesn’t strike out as much, and he handles the bat better, so I’d rather have him in the second spot.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 7, 2008 12:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

By switch hitter, I mean they hit from both sides....

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Oct 7, 2008 7:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Never Mind

I get what you’re saying…with Barton..

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Oct 7, 2008 7:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The reason we would have to get a power hitting MI is because when you have Izturiz and Kennedy as your MI (I know its not going to happen, but its an example of this year) your offense greatly decreases down the order…the Cubs had DeRo to deal with that, and a better offensive catcher to boot.

The Cards needed another bat in the lineup like to go along with Lopez this year, whether it be a beast, or another 50-60 rbi MI.

Schu is a great leadoff hitter, but he limits the offensive capability of the team unless you DO get a power hitting MI, because Schu takes away from the power possibilities in the outfield.

by miniboscorino on Oct 6, 2008 4:39 PM EDT   0 recs

point taken

But you don’t need a power hitting SS as much as you need one that can lead off, so you can put someone like Mather in LF. There are a ton of power hitting corner outfielders and they’re cheaper than power hitting SS. Even if you keep Schu leading off, you still don’t need a power hitting MI as much as you need one that can hit at a .280+ clip and get on base at a better rate than .319. If you had a SS like, say, Theriot of the Cubs (.307/.387/.359), you could still bat Schu leadoff and put Theriot ninth with Lopez batting second. This puts OBP intensive players in front of Pujols, which is a way to get him more AB’s with runners in scoring position. Theriot hit exactly one homer this year, but he scored 85 runs. I’d rather pay a Theriot $2M a year than pay someone like Tejada $16M a year, especially since the Cardinals already have 4 30+ homer threats in the lineup, as I said above.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 7, 2008 12:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It matters on how the Cards front office goes about things

I would rather see Furcal as a Card leading off, but what happens if we don’t get him? Or any other good leadoff MI, but if the Cards don’t sign a player like that, then what happens?

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Oct 7, 2008 1:36 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I covered that....
Even if you keep Schu leading off, you still don’t need a power hitting MI as much as you need one that can hit at a .280+ clip and get on base at a better rate than .319. If you had a SS like, say, Theriot of the Cubs (.307/.387/.359), you could still bat Schu leadoff and put Theriot ninth with Lopez batting second. This puts OBP intensive players in front of Pujols, which is a way to get him more AB’s with runners in scoring position.

The key is to upgrade the middle infield somehow, and signing Pat Burrell doesn’t upgrade the middle infield, benches our only decent leadoff hitter, and still leaves us with 2 holes in our lineup. If you could sign Furcal AND Burrell for a total of $15 million then I’d be all for it — we’re getting more bang for our buck. We know that won’t happen; those guys are each going to make around the type of money, per year.

I comes down to this, I’d rather spend $15 million drastically upgrading in the middle infield than spending $15 million for a slight upgrade in left field over what we currently already have. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Joe Mather might even put up Burrell’s power numbers if he played in left field all season. He probably doesn’t get on base as much, but he’s certainly got that kind of pop.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 7, 2008 12:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Mather vs. Burrell

whatever Mather lacks on offense vs. Burrell he makes up in defense. It’s ridiculous to think about trying to upgrade our OF with a high priced vet.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 7, 2008 5:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

but he wouldn’t hit 4th for the Cardinals, he’d probably hit 5th and bump Glaus down to 6th. I still don’t think that makes it ok to pay $15M+ a year for him when you have lower cost alternatives and huge holes at other positions.

There is a reason Pat has over 100 walks each year for 4 years now, people don’t like to pitch to him. Thats the kind of guy the cards lacked this year, how many times was Albert walked this year, and the guy behind him didn’t come through? I’d say up until about the last quarter of the season when Luddy started being more clutch. I would be more afraid of an Albert, Burrell, Glaus, Luddy/Ankiel, than a Albert, Luddy Glaus, Ankiel, which would happen if we sign Lopez and not get a power guy.

by miniboscorino on Oct 6, 2008 4:43 PM EDT   0 recs

People

might notice your replies if they were actual replies instead of new comments.

Just click the “reply” link next to the profile name and the time-stamp of the comment you want to reply to.

by spants on Oct 6, 2008 9:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, I have found that out…on the other board..haha

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Oct 6, 2008 10:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

not necessarily true
people don’t like to pitch to him

Or, people don’t like to pitch to a home run threat when everyone behind him in the lineup sucks. Pedro Feliz, Chris Coste, Geoff Jenkins, and Carlos Ruiz got the majority of the AB’s behind Burrell this year. None of those guys had more than 10 dingers, and all of them strike out quite a bit, are slow, and can be induced into double plays. I take my chances with them.

Burrell only hit .250, and his BABIP was .275, which was the second lowest of his career. In other words, he’s worse than league average on balls in play, even though he’s getting pitched around all the time. What this tells me is that he’s becoming an all or nothing type player, and his slash lines project this as well. He either hits a big fly, walks, or gets himself out.

Busch III suppresses home run totals, so the 33 he hit in Philly would probably shrink to around 25-28 next year - we have 4 players who hit better than 25 dingers this year, and three of the four did it for less than what Burrell made this season. He’s 32 years old, so he’s probably going to be looking for a 4-5 year deal at around $13$16 million per year. His stats just don’t show him to be worth that, imho.

The final knife in his back would be that his top comparable through age 30 on baseball-reference is Danny Tartabull, who had his best season at age 30 and went straight downhill from there and was out of baseball by age 34. Not exactly what I’m looking for from a guy looking for that type of money.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 7, 2008 12:57 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

if you look at his O-zone swing %

he did jump almost 5% this year. So that kind of supports your theory. makes you wonder how he’d do hitting in front of Albert…

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=949&position=OF

But, while I’d bet that his BABIP is going to bounce back a bit, the 13% infield fly rate is murder on his BABIP, and would quickly drive us crazy.

the enemy's gate is down.

by SleepyCA on Oct 7, 2008 1:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I looked at Fangraphs to get my data

most of their stats show him having a subpar season and a slight decline in each of the last 2 years…like I said…reminds me a lot of Danny Tartabull, and I grew up watching him when he was with the Royals.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 7, 2008 12:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What would be a reasonable price for Burrell?

If the Cards chose to sign him

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Oct 7, 2008 1:37 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Reasonable?

I wouldn’t go any higher than 3Y $25M, and there’s no way he’d accept that.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 7, 2008 12:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

2009 free agents as of 10/03/08

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/2009-mlb-free-a.html
Lots of good outfielders but not much to choose from in the MIF

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson

by Bahamaredbird on Oct 6, 2008 8:46 PM EDT   0 recs

If the Cards got a MI, it would either be Lopez, Cabrera, Renteria, or they would have to trade for a Kelly Johnson, Jhonny Perralta, or the guy in Seattle, I wish I remembered his name…

by miniboscorino on Oct 6, 2008 9:00 PM EDT   0 recs

Yes!!!

Thats his name, I don’t know what we would have to trade to get him though, if the M’s were even willing to do so…

For some reason, I don't enjoy watching Big Mac hit #62, but I fondly remember Ray Lankford blasting the ball out of the park in the same game. He had one sweet swing!!

by miniboscorino on Oct 7, 2008 1:39 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs