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Just the Right Bullets- the Minors

Ah, good morning! It's so very nice to see you again. How have you been? And the family? Delighted to hear it.

Look, I'm going to level with you all. I simply do not have the time, nor, honestly, the energy to cook up an elaborate intro on this lovely Wednesday morning. Thus, having said that, I shall dive directly in to the subject at hand, and trust that you, the El Vivi Birders reading public, come here for the meat of the content, rather than the flowery window dressing that I typically spend so very much of my time engineering. Anyhow, onward and upward.

Last week, I took a look at some of the Cardinals' best pieces of trade bait at the major league level. this week, I'm going to do the same thing, but focus on those players who are still in the minors. Of course, when it comes right down to it, pretty much every player in the minor leagues is trade fodder to a certain degree, so in order to keep this manageable, I'm going to work with maybe just the absolute most prominent six or eight players. And so, without further ado, here they are, folks. If the Cards make a deal this winter, chances are these are the names that will probably be involved.

Joe Mather- Last week, an astute poster pointed out that Mather probably should have been included in the majors, and he was right. Mather is no longer considered a rookie by MLB, due to the number of major league at bats he took in 2008, thus, one has to consider him as a major league outfielder.

The thing is, to me, Joey Bombs still just feels like a minor leaguer. I still think of him almost purely in terms of his possible future projection, rather than thinking of what he can do for the team right now. Regardless, though, Mr. Bombs is a major leaguer, whether he feels like one to me or not.

Mather offers excellent right handed power. His power isn't his only tool, but it is definitely his most notable. It has been said that Mather can play center field if need be, but I don't think that I would want to try and use him as the full time guy out there. Still, a corner outfielder with the kind of power and athleticism that Mather offers is nothing to sniff at. He still struggles a bit with good breaking balls, but showed a willingness to take a walk as he adjusted to major league pitching. I have to say, I think Mather, even with the injury that forced him to shut it down early this past season, offers a very nice value to a team looking for some youth, some defense, and big time pop.

Colby Rasmus- Ah, here's the big one. Whether it's in rumours for Jake Peavy or possibly being dangled for the impact bat that the manager so craves, Colby is the single most discussed prospect in all the Cardinals' system. And really, that is exactly as it should be, seeing as how Rasmus offers something that very few other players in the Cardinal system do: true impact potential.

Colby Rasmus is what is commonly referred to as a five tool player. He can hit, he can field, he can run, he can throw. The man can do it all. What he can't do, though, is get away from the fact that he just had a tough transition to Triple A in his first go 'round. Unfortunately, that also means that his value is probably depressed just a shade, compared to what it was, say, last offseason.

Still, Colby will be in the top 5 or 10 prospects in all of baseball heading into the 2009 season, as well he should. There aren't many teams out there that have a player of this caliber in their system; honestly, Colby is probably the best positional prospect the Cards have had since J.D. Drew. (I know, Albert, but Albert wasn't that big time a prospect. He's just a completely unique situation.)

Bottom line, if you're going to trade a Colby Rasmus, you had better get one hell of a return for him. When you look at the potential that Colby has, combined with the financial flexibility he allows, I personally have to come to the conclusion that there aren't more than a handful of players in all of baseball that would truly return good value for young Mr. Rasmus. Fortunately, it looks as if Mozeliak and the front office realise what they have.

Daryl Jones- Are you beginning to see a pattern here? Of course, we all know that the Cardinals are deep in the outfield, so this shouldn't come as any huge surprise.

Always a bundle of tools, Jones finally began to turn those tools into real production this year. He split the season between High A ball and Double A Springfield, and put up some eye popping numbers. At both levels, he put up on base percentages better than .400; particularly impressive for a player known to have plate approach issues. Combine his ability to get on base with his speed on the basepaths and solid gap type power, and it's easy to dream on players Jones could grow up to be.

Of course, it was the first good year Jones has had in the minors, to be perfectly frank. Teams may be willing to shoot the moon for Jones, looking at his tools and projecting him to be the next Curtis Granderson, but you could also see certain teams being a bit wary of Daryl, hoping to see more of this year's production before they give up anything too very meaningful for him.

Mitchell Boggs- With Jaime Garcia now on the shelf, Boggs probably becomes the Cardinals' best pitching prospect, offering the best combination of proximity to the majors, having already appeared with the big club last season, and projection remaining, with a repertoire that's heavy on power but could become even more impressive with some fine tuning.

The questions with Boggs, to be frank, pretty much all center around the fact that he really only has two pitches. The fastball is nice, with both velocity and movement, and he features a power curve as well, but that's pretty well where it ends. His changeup is iffy, and he throws a slider as well that just flat out doesn't do a whole lot. Even so, Boggs could easily end up a strong presence at the back end of a bullpen if starting doesn't work out. To me, Boggs offers a pretty strong value, particularly for a team looking for a swingman type. Just how much that's worth is an interesting question, of course, but my feeling is that Boggs should bring one very good, but not elite, prospect in return, if the Cardinals decided to move him.

Clayton Mortensen- Remember when we all thought that we would see Mort working out of the St. Louis bullpen by the end of the season? Back in spring training, the buzz was that Duncan had absolutely fallen in love with this tall drink of water, due to a power sinker that just chews up wood bats. Alas, it was not to be, and after being pushed up to Triple A due to injury, Mortensen struggled, lost his confidence a bit, and then struggled a bit more as he tried to right the ship.

I'm still very high on Mortensen, personally, but I think his trade value is a little bit iffy at the moment. Yes, he was in his first professional season and reached Triple A, but he was also a college senior when he was drafted, so he was older than most of his class already. His numbers at Memphis are ugly, with a nasty K/BB ratio that suggests a definite habit of nibbling when the going gets tough.

Most likely, Mortensen doesn't have enough value right now to make it worth moving him. Anything you could get would likely be pennies on the dollar when you look at his potential, rather than his less than stellar numbers this year. I don't think you can move him right now; instead, at least give him time to try and get established in Triple A before you even consider a deal involving this young man.

Jess Todd- Also known as Gozer the Gozarrian and, simply, the Destroyer, Jess Todd stomped through the minors this year like a a giant marshmallow nightmare as he made his way from afterthought in his college rotation to big time pitching prospect.


Todd blew through three levels of the minor leagues in 2008, and looked mighty impressive doing so. Teams love that kind of fast riser career arc, and by most accounts, Todd has the stuff to succeed at the highest levels, with an array of cutting, sinking, and straight fastballs to go along with a plus slider and a nasty little changeup.

In fact, probably the only things that keep Todd from being a big time prospect
 are his size (5'11"), and his delivery. His mechanics are definitely funky, and it's entirely possible that his delivery may limit him to a bullpen role down the road. Still, of all the Cards' prospests this season, Todd may have garnered the most buzz. That's certainly worth something in the trade market. How much, I'm not willing to speculate exactly, but he's certainly not anything to sneeze at.

Adam Reifer- One of the Cardinals' late round, 'upside' picks in last year's draft, Jeff Luhnow called Reifer the sleeper of the draft. So far, Luhnow looks like a friggin' genius on that one.

Pitching for short season Batavia, Reifer struck out over 31% of the hitters he faced this year. Just as importantly, he walked a little under 12%. Even more important than either of those things, though, is the fact that he managed to stay healthy this season. After suffering through elbow problems his junior year of college, Reifer looks to be back on track, as he remained sound all year.

When he's on, some scouts have gone so far as to rate Reifer's fastball a pure 80 (on the 20-80 scouting scale), and his slider at least a 70. I don't care what level a guy plays at, the stuff doesn't lie. He even has a nasty little changeup, though he doesn't throw it all that often. There isn't much of a track record on Reifer, so he's probably not all that valuable at the moment. If he continues on the way he has so far, though, expect to see his name begin popping up all over prospect lists in the very near future.

Jason Motte- You only need to know one thing about Motte: 101.

That's the speed his fastball was repeatedly clocked at this year. He may not have much else going for him, but Motte can still throw the ball through a brick wall. Never have too many of those guys on your team.

Of course, other teams know perfectly well about Motte's less than impressive secondary pitches, and will probably hedge their bets accordingly. Still, there was talk of Motte for Ohman during the season, and I'm absolutely thrilled the Cards didn't pull the trigger on that deal. Moving a guy with Motte's stuff at the end of the game for a LOOGY just doesn't make much sense. He can probably do better for the Cards than what he could bring in trade. I fully expect them to hang on to Mr. Motte.

David Freese/ Allen Craig- I'm sticking these two together because, honestly, I'm not sure there's a better way to approach them. Both are third base prospects. In most organisations, a couple of prospeccts like these might look at the impending FA of Troy Glaus and assume that means there will be more opportunity to play ball, even start, than any of them ever expected there would be.

However, in the Cardinals' system, there just happens to be an elephant in the room; well, a Walrus, at least. Brett Wallace, the Cardinals' first round draft pick this season, is moving along at a ridiculous pace, and will likely push Freese and Craig both for playing time very, very soon. Sadly for them, they simply can't stand against the bat of the Walrus. Even is he can become just an adequate defender at third base, that really leaves no place for Freese and Craig to go; unless, of course, that place is in another organisation. Both players have outstanding bats, with Freese probably having the overall better base of tools, particularly when it comes to defense.

Overall, I think that at least one of the two of Freese and Craig almost has to be traded this offseason, if only to help ease the logjam of third sackers the Cardinals have at the top levels of the minors. There are only so many roster spots at Triple A, and nearly all of the Cards' minor league third basemen belong there.

Bryan Anderson- And so we come to the other big fish on the list. The only catcher on this list, Anderson presents us with a unique skillset.

Look, most of us know the story on Anderson by now. He bats from the left side. He hits over .300 pretty much by rolling out of bed. His defense is moving in the right direction. In short, Bryan Anderson is a special talent, and his value is pretty special as well.

For most of the time that Anderson has been in the Cardinals' system, I've been a staunch opponent of moving him. Catchers who can do the things he can are just too rare for me to be comfortable with him being shipped out. However, it is more and more obvious as time goes on that Anderson probably isn't going to get too very much of a chance here in St. Louis, rightly or wrongly. Yadier Molina is firmly entrenched, and Anderson simply has too much value to stick him at backup catcher. It seems the only way to get the proper value from his skills is, unfortunately, to trade him.

That makes Anderson officially the best trade piece the Cardinals possess. And he is a good one, make no mistake.

I think those are probably the best bullets the Cards have, at least in the minors. There are others, of course, but I don't think the others are nearly as attractive as these players right here. Even these, though, the cream of the crop, still have significant questions attached to many of them. If anything, this should serve to illustrate, quite succinctly, that even though the Cardinals' farm system has made absolute quantum leaps forward under Jeff Luhnow's skilled stewardship, there is still a long way to go before the Cards have a system the like of Boston, or Tampa Bay, or even the Atlanta ballclub. Can the Cardinals afford to make a big time deal? Of course they can. The question is, should they?

1 recs  |  Comment 200 comments

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Nice analysis.

"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."

by SoonerfanTU on Oct 22, 2008 11:22 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Very nice

By the way, what the hell happened to Ottavino? Last time I checked, I was high on him

by goblues on Oct 22, 2008 11:25 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

the thing about ottavino

is pretty soon you’ll want some funions and forget about where you put the remote.

by spencegrif on Oct 22, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Adam Reifer hates your guts

Jess Todd is the Destroyer, but Reifer is the Soul Render.

Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle." www.futureredbirds.net

by erik on Oct 22, 2008 11:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Prospects are fun.

A Jones comp I’ve warmed to recently is Carl Crawford. Speedy left fielder that seems like he should be a better defender than the metrics say he is. Moderate power. Hits for average.

After watching Maiques bomb this past year, I’m withholding judgment on relievers in the low minors. Reifer had a nice season but it wasn’t without its bumps. I don’t think any other team is going to be interested in him at this point. Not when the Cardinals have guys like Gregerson, Perdomo, Salas and Samuel closer to the bigs.

by azruavatar on Oct 22, 2008 11:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dont Worry

I actually thought he had a better chance of being a major league reliever than perez and said so in FR.

by BigJawnMize on Oct 22, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reifer also has much better stuff than Maiques

There’s not a whole lot of projecting to do on high 90s.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Oct 22, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When our bullpen

features Reifer, Perez, and Motte, we are gonna need some dude that throws an eephus pitch to sandwich in there somewhere. That will be kick-ass. Maybe we can get Jamie Moyer to be our LOOGY. Carp can start the game throwing 91-03, Motte can come in and throw 100 for an inning, then Moyer can follow that with his 78 mph fastball. That will be absolutely awesome to watch.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Oct 22, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well technically we don't

Because it’ll go Reifer triple digiting 3 guys, Motte triple digiting+1 the next 3 guys, and Perez 94-98ing and K-Rod slidering the next 3! The same guy will never see the cheddar twice!

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Oct 22, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Roberto Novoa could throw in the high 90s

I’m just not willing to buy into relievers walking > 10% of batters faced at short season A ball.

by azruavatar on Oct 22, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not that it isn't fun to think about

I just don’t see Reifer anywhere near the top of our relief prospects right now.

by azruavatar on Oct 22, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good breaking ball

decent fastball that plays up because of command. He’s not a power arm as much as a command and good movement guy. If I recall correctly he sits in the low 90s so he’s got enough velocity to survive but he’s going to blast it by anyone.

by azruavatar on Oct 22, 2008 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Novoa never struck out anyone

Look, contrary to the post right about this one by me, I’m not saying he’s a total lock. But high 90s + a decent breaking ball is big league stuff out of the pen. “Buying into” him being a major leaguer? Yeah I’ll take that without a doubt barring injury, that’s “special” stuff and he might just do that as early as next year. Buying into him being a major league star isn’t what I’m saying.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Oct 22, 2008 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Freese

I hope we keep Freese. He’s a legit major league 3B. The Walrus just might end up in left field stationed there in a holding pattern waiting to see if the Cards sign a long-term extension with Pujols. Can’t wait for ST to see these guys all on the field together.

by jjray on Oct 22, 2008 11:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I tend to agree...

on Freese. Should Glaus have injury concerns this season, I feel Freese could fill in quite nicely. Can he play enough to justify a bench spot? I’d like to see him on the 25-man this year with Craig or Wallace in AAA.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 22, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the best thing for the Cards, Glaus, and Freese

would be to have him back up Glaus, maybe call him up in May or June or something to start giving Glaus off days… hell, just play Freese until allergy season is over. j/k
I think it’s important to give this guy some playing time in the majors, a) to see if we want to keep him at 3B after Glaus leaves (that is, if he’s not run over by a walrus) and b) to up his trade value if wallace is going to stick at third. which I think he will.

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Freese

I wondered if Freese could fill the Scott Spezio roll. Could he be a utility man backing up 3B, 1B, as well as LF if TLR feels the need to sit all the LH batters? Would he be a better option in that roll than say, hmmm…Felipe Lopez?

by Knighttime on Oct 22, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure that TLR would have no qualms sticking him in the outfield

and I was thinking that the rare day that Pujols takes a rest, Glaus can move over to first and Freese can just stay at 3B. Chris Duncan kind of messes this up though, because he’d probably get the start at first instead. hopefully his batting will be much improved and we won’t take a hit from not playing Glaus and Albert in that situation, which probably won’t happen more than a couple of times all season.

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

tricky situation

if colby is on the roster, I could see a scenario where ankiel plays 1st, with Colby in CF keeping Galus at 3B unless we are facing a LH starter then Glaus at 1B and Freese at 3B. As far as Duncan goes, unless the cards trade either Ankiel or Skip doesn’t Duncan kinda mess up the OF too? Assuming no trade – Skip, Ank, Luddy as starters with Mather as a platoon with Skip. Leaving Duncan, Barton, and Rasmus fighting for 1 bench spot.

Anyway, I see the corner utility guy as a sopt the 2009 cardinals need to improve on and I guess I would like to see Freese given a shot. If Wallace can stick at 3B that makes Freese even more valuable in the utility roll. If Wallace doesn’t stick at 3B, it would give Freese the MLB experience to hopefully be ready for the 3B job in 2010.

by Knighttime on Oct 22, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sadly

I think Lopez is already anointed the 2009 utility player.

by Red in Chicago on Oct 22, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

Duncan is the monkeywrench in our system… I don’t see Ank playing at 1B at all, but with Larussa, it’s entirely possible.

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

true that

If Duncan is available I can see him at 1B over Ankiel but hey, Glaus had never played 1B prior to this past season either. As you say, with TLR anything is possible.

by Knighttime on Oct 22, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

just don't see why they'd waste the arm at first

heck, just throw ank in at SS! wait, that’s too close….

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I rather enjoy your flowery window dressing

But to the meat:

The guy I would be most willing to part with out of this group would be Jones, so long as we hold on to Raz. Both of them would end up as CF in the majors, and if Colby pans out, that leaves little room for him. If you could convince another organization he has Granderson potential then you could probably make a pretty good return. I’d also be willing to let go of Craig, and I’m really interested to see what Freese can do if/when he makes the Opening Day roster next year. I definitley don’t want to see Colby or Todd go.

Ryan Howard: one of the most Statistically Outstanding players of all time

by RunninRedbird on Oct 22, 2008 11:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd add Anderson to that list...

of guys I’d be willing to part with. Probably in the order of Jones, Craig, Anderson. Truthfully I’d rather wait until midseason or next offseason as I believe each of these guys has a chance to significantly increase their trade value. Does Jones have more value right now than John Jay? To me they are similar players, and Jay had some success at a higher level this year.

I’m still not convinced Wallace is going to stick at third…nor that Craig can play there at the big league level – I don’t want to let Freese go without a lot more certainty that Craig or Wallace will be big league third basemen by 2010.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 22, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ey, Nico

Vasquez didn’t get any love on this list?

"Never judge a taco by its price" - Dr. Gonzo

by KennyWang on Oct 22, 2008 12:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I presume you're joking...

but Nico can’t be traded till June I believe, and also has only a half season of decent numbers at very low levels. A lot of us are excited about Nico, but he’s got a long ways to go.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 22, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

very nice read, ty.

i like mather over ankiel (lf). rasmus over skip eventually (cf). if we are going to grow from within, bye rick (FA after 09). mather, rasmus and ludwick starting in the not so distant future. skip bumped to a 4th OF role, sees plenty of starts.
with the walrus replacing glaus in 2010, craig would be my chip. we should carry freese in 09 as a corner infielder, instead of 2 backup middle infielders, increase our pop from the bench and in backup starts.
really like boggs fastball movement. commit to his mlb reliever IP and allow him to develop.
i hope perdomo can make the reyes career / trade, easier to justify.

by ball in play on Oct 22, 2008 12:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think we would be wise...

to trade one (or both) of Skip and Ankiel this winter…particularly Skip, as he will be pushed out by better players (Ludwick, Rasmus and Mather), and I simply don’t see him having a better season than he had in 2008. I won’t begin to speculate on what Skip could bring in a trade, but maybe the young Major League CFer that San Diego is looking for is our very own Skippy…

by cardzfanbub on Oct 22, 2008 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

skips leadoff value is yet to be replaced on our 09 roster......

i trust his 120 GS production much more from skip than the 81 GS by miles (wouldn’t he be the next in line to start?) or barton from 08. and we have another near minimum salary year of skip.
ankiel or skip as a chip? both wellemeyer and ankiel are 2010 FA eligible, both now have exceeded 5 yrs service time. we only have one large contract (glaus 09) coming off the books. i would prefer resigning wellemeyer to a 3/24mil much more than ankiel. in part because i trust mathers production to replace ankiel, more than i do garcia / boggs / todd to replace welly in 2010. by letting ankiel become a deadline chip (09) or FA walk for pick(s), we retain schu to leadoff in 09 and early 2010, while rasmus finishes AAA and establishes himself as a everyday cf and leadoff.
it’s not that i don’t appreciate the ankiel STL career. the economics of choosing to retain a more affordable skip and his leadoff abilities over ankiel, and the players who would be replacing one of welly or ankiel, make the decision for me. i am very glad we helped ankiel reestablish his value within mlb. the org should be proud for standing behind him. the natural time to part ways, seems to be here.

by ball in play on Oct 22, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the long run...

I would rather move Ankiel than Skip, I figure both are pushed out by better players (Skip) or free agency. I am hesitant to move Ankiel right now, as I think he could bring back a more significant return in midseason – he needs to establish health as well as continued production. Skip IMO is a lot more likely to decrease in value next season than increase…best time to move him is now. We can figure out the leadoff spot.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 22, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree

ankiel as a deadline chip in 09, after restablishing health. BOS made a hard push for an OF LHB this past deadline. giles even “no thanks” to their offer. gives mather time to establish to value over a larger sample size.

the improvment of skip at leadoff over eckstein in 07, was a large factor for me, in the improved success we had in 08. i’ll pass on the “we can figure out the leadoff spot”. we have other chips in craig, barton, thompson, that i would be willing to move first. they have lesser value than skip, but largely because they would play a lesser role for us or another org.

by ball in play on Oct 22, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what exactly is the status of Barton?

i can’t remember how all the rule V stuff has or does not have an effect on what we can do with him now. anybody?

by mattybobo on Oct 22, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

rule 5 stuff over.

requirements met in 08, according to cot’s transaction glossary, from what i read.

by ball in play on Oct 22, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's what i thought/hoped

i’m curious to see where the professor ends up.

by mattybobo on Oct 22, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

only if

we don’t move anyone off the roster. If we do, he’ll be on the bench most likely – without costing Colby a call up. If Colby starts the year at AAA by chance, Barton is sure to be on the 25 man.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't move.....

A chip that big midseason, unless you are out of the race.

I think it makes more sense to move him in the offseason, when both teams can be more flexible.

"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."

by SoonerfanTU on Oct 22, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mid-season moves

There have been big chips moved in years in which the original team went on to make the playoffs or World Series — the Red Sox trade of Manny this year and Nomar in 2004 come to mind. While those may be outliers, there is some precedent for trading a big chip and getting something immediately useful in return.

by holden on Oct 22, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this offseason he has health questions for 09, so trading at less than full value

will have better value in 09 after restablishing health. after 09, he’s not under team control, FA. that leaves midseason.
if schu is leading off in cf and ludwick in rf matching his 08, why not trade an ankiel? i prefer mather over ankiel. i expect mather to match ankiels 08, given the opportunity. just me. there are scenarios where flipping ankiel could help us earn a postseason berth. say we have a SP go down. if our need is innings, flip him and fill the need. just one line of thought, not saying it’s the only approach available.

by ball in play on Oct 22, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't?

I’ll have to look at the rule book…but I don’t thing it matters how big a “chip” a guy is you can move him anytime outside of Sept-Oct. It might be unorthodox, but usually a contending team with “chips” as big as Ankiel doesn’t have someone ready to play (Rasmus and or Mather) waiting in the wings that could be just as good or better. Unless we think Ank can reach type A status next season, there is no reason to hold on to him through the full season. With his health currently a big question mark, as well as his production – he stands to raise his trade value significantly with a solid/healthy first half . Then a contending team with a hole in RF or CF may give up some pretty good prospects for him.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 22, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see his health as a concern.....

He got hurt, like alot of folks do. He should be fine to start the year.

And on the flip side, if he doesn’t have a great first half, we get nothing.

I still think it is better to move him now, if we’re going to move him.

"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."

by SoonerfanTU on Oct 22, 2008 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and what, per say, is leadoff value?

i would guess it is getting on base but i am pretty sure we can replace his league average production from within the organization and maybe one that can hit left handers and right handers. im not say we have to trade him but he can be replaced easier or as easy than any of the other that got regular or semi-regular playing time in the OF.

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Oct 22, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol,

.309 / .370 / .416 from the leadoff slot in 08, with a 120 games started.
gotta name of this org player who can step in and fill that role easily, who’s not already starting for STL?

by ball in play on Oct 22, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

102 OPS+

or 106 if you just want to count games he hit lead off and pretend the other games he played didn’t exist…Joe Mather, Brian Barton, Rasmus, probably Jon Jay even…any of those players can post an OPS+ 100 or above and 3 of the 4 have a lot better on-base skills than Skip…and about 80% of those games he was leading off were against right-handers which we know he can hit if he hit leadoff all the time against all pitchers those numbers wouldn’t look so good…

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Oct 22, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't the Cardinals lead the league

in runs scored in the first inning? If so, wouldn’t Skip’s leadoff skills have something to do with that?

by Red in Chicago on Oct 22, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well sure

it obviously had something to do with it. but it is something that could be replaced easier than Ankiel or Ludwick’s production

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Oct 22, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay.

I agree with that. But Skip is a pretty darn good leadoff option about 2/3rds of the time (when righties are pitching, that is).

by Red in Chicago on Oct 22, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so mather being right on ankiels heels in ISO, HR/FB, OPS and SLG for 08?

it’s a smaller sample size, should we pretend it doesn’t exist. or the 8 mil a year extension ankiel could receive as FA eligible, is a good investment over mather at 3 yrs near minimum? until you can twist tlr arm enough to get rasmus on the 25 man, there is no everyday player available to leadoff at least 70% games, as skip does.

by ball in play on Oct 22, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats my point.

MO eliminates other possibilities from the roster. TLR isnt going to completely ignore Rasmus at leadoff – if the other options are Mather and ________. Barton is likely to be in AAA. Ludwick and Ankiel are locked in 2 OF spots. At some point TLR and his ‘put out the best lineup to win today’s game’ mantra has to overcome his ’ Rasmus isnt ready’ bent.

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nice angle

that scenario hadn’t came to mind. ty.

by ball in play on Oct 22, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He will be if you can repeat

If Colby has a similar spring training to the one he had last year than he will be on the team.

by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 22, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure why everyone seems to think Barton will be at AAA

He’s a pretty useful bench guy. Some pop, some speed, decent average, decent defense…I don’t get it. Remember: just because LaRussa only let him face lefties in 2008 doesn’t mean he can’t hit righties— he actually hit for a higher AVG and SLG against righties last year (better OBP against lefties…weird).

Barton doesn’t get enough credit, I don’t think.

by mojowo11 on Oct 22, 2008 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He doesn't

most seem to forget how well he was doing early last year when he was an active part of the platoon.

Then Skip started to struggle and Duncan was too. So Barton lost his playing time largely to guys who “needed playing time to find their swing”.

After which he started losing his and he still put up solid numbers for a Rule 5 guy who hadn’t played over AA.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree that he could/would have great benefit with the big club.

I too would like to see him in the OF – Rasmus, Ludwick, Ankiel, Mather and Barton. Skip or Ankiel or both being the two i would most prefer to see traded. I just think hes got more to overcome to be on the roster. Mather got a good chunk of PT before he was injured. Barton didnt get so much. That said, he was injured most of the year, so who knows.

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duncan

a healthy Chris Duncan would hurt Barton’s chances to make the roster too, but opening at AAA might not be a bad thing for him or the team. He gets regular playing time and the Cards have a player they are confident in to call up.

by Knighttime on Oct 22, 2008 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

If Duncan is healthy/ready to play, he’ll likely start the year on the ML roster, as he should. Barton could use the everyday AB’s in AAA, something he won’t get in STL.

"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."

by SoonerfanTU on Oct 22, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

leadoff

Is hitting 1st when the cards bat the pitcher 8th really considered leading off?

by spencegrif on Oct 22, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the name you're looking for is Colby Rasmus.

The line above is nice – but .168 .238 .185 vs. LHP is how shall we put it – putrid? The two contributions that Skip offers are OBP (against RHP) and defense. Rasmus has shown the ability to get on base and can certainly replace the defense. In addition, he has upside potential in power categories, SB, and RBI. What exactly are we waiting for?

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only way I could support Skip as the leadoff guy

is if we get a RH complement not named Izturis or Miles. IF TLR is willing to do a straight platoon with Barton then I am OK with that, but I don’t want to keep Skip in that role if it means we are stuck with a sucktastic lead-off option against LHPs. Leadoff batters not named Schumaker hit a combined .246 with a .296 OBP last year. That is in spite of Barton putting up a .275/.362/.451/.813 as a lead-off hitter in 60 PAs. Ridiculous.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Oct 22, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yah, i'm still waiting for the players name who can easily relieve skip from that role.

hmmmmm, .296 OBP not named skip. doesn’t sound too good in the rbi dept for our middle order guys.

by ball in play on Oct 22, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

.359 OBP overall and .370 as a leadoff hitter is pretty good, but not record setting. It is, after all, only .008 higher than Barton had in the same role. Plus, Barton either scored himself or got himself into scoring position 11.7% of his leadoff PAs while Skip only accomplished that feat 7.6% of the time. That more than makes up for the small OBP discrepancy.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Oct 22, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NIce post

I hadn’t realized that Barton was that close to Skip. Any chance Barton has more trade value than Skippy does?

I like both guys quite a bit, but from a team standpoint they just seem to repetitive and 1 could be turned into a strength elsewhere.

by birdo rojo on Oct 22, 2008 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this is my ideal situation

is having Barton leadoff at times

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 23, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

barton, colby, MI yet to be named.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it will be dumb

not to trade Schu this offseason, unless no one wants him, which I find doubtful

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ahh...

the old “it will be dumb” argument

kudos

"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell

by albrtfn on Oct 22, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

selling high

the cliff notes version is that his value will probably never be higher than it is at this moment…..

by FunkeeC on Oct 22, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep

he’s cost controlled, a great defender, and can hit at least as well as fukudome. probably better though. maybe the cubs are interested? heh

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

whats to say skips value doesn't continue to increse in 09?

it has every year so far. does he improve vs lhp’s given the opportunity? is tlr willing to give rasmus 120 GS at leadoff in 09? do we really want miles or barton leading off 120 games?

if we trade skip and others for a leadoff middle infielder, sure…..pull the trigger. i’m not of the camp that sees his value decreasing in 09.

by ball in play on Oct 22, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see it decreasing either

it’s just that we need to move people out of the outfield, and to most teams (if they’re savvy) will see Skip as a better trade chip than Ankiel and others. unless you want to trade Mather, which probably isn’t a great idea.

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if I would say Skip is a better hitter than Fukudome...

I am curious to see how Fukudome does next year.

Remember you think Skip had a breakout year and his value is as high as it will probably be. Skip had a .359 OBP

Fukudome had an good start and an awful middle and end of the year yet he still had a .359 OBP….. He hit more HR in less AB’s than Skip as well.

I can’t honestly say I think Skip is a better hitter than Fukudome. Skip also had 255 AB’s prior to this year against MLB pitching. Fukudome has not see MLB pitching until this year.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 22, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok

you’re right… but they are definitely comparable in hitting. but Skip is probably both more versatile and a better defender

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree..

Fukudome is a very good RF, however his arm is not really strong like the prototypical RF, he is very good at getting rid of the ball quickly.

I don’t think Fukudome could play a full time CF like Skip.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 22, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well he may not be a better hitter

but he is definitely a cheaper hitter. I was thinking Hendry for GM of the year this year. By 2010, he may have the least flexibility of any manager in the game.

by Red in Chicago on Oct 22, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.......

I see it as two or three separate arguments though..

1. Skip the player vs. Fukudome the player
2. how much are they being paid
3. Is the pay worth it

by ICbirdfan on Oct 22, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All I have to say

Is that Skip was clearly better last year……especially once you factor in park effects there really isn’t a question.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Oct 22, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very nice analysis

I especially liked the Daryl Jones comp to Granderson in light of recent sarcasm detection failures. :)

"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell

by albrtfn on Oct 22, 2008 12:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Personally

I think he has Granderson’s defense and lefty swing with Torii Hunter power and Milton Bradley’s approach but I hear he has Michael Bourn’s arm. He might even have BJ Upton athleticism but I’ve never seen him play.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Oct 22, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so he's the bionic outfielder?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Oct 22, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No he's a black outfielder

See the discussion starting roughly in here from yesterday to join in.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Oct 22, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al Roker probably would have been a better comp for a major league arm than Pierre

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Oct 22, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

pierre's arm is supposed to be pretty noodly, right?

maybe roker would be too much credit. i’m thinking webster or steve urkel.

by mattybobo on Oct 22, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

Living in the Springfield area during the summer, I got to see a lot of Craig, Todd, Jones, and earlier, Robinson. The only opportunity I saw Todd was one of the few nights he got rocked. :( Jones outfield arm seems to be underrated by many, I saw him make nothing but strong, accurate (I mean ON THE PLATE) throws from CF. He has great leadoff potential if he continues his .400 OBP. I really prefer a guy with the potential for doubles power leading off.
Not only does Craig have great power, he seems to be very clutch. How you quantify that is rather unknown, but nonetheless…

I also was wondering why Shane Robinson was not included as one of our trade chips. How far is Mark Shorey considered from the Show?

"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell

by albrtfn on Oct 22, 2008 12:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Jones never played CF in Springfield

and only a handful in Palm Beach but i think his arm is being underrated as well, it isn’t anything like Damon or Pierre from what i saw him throw. that being said, if he didn’t play CF in A ball or AA ball when he was the top prospect as both places obviously they don’t think he can in the Show.

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Oct 22, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Being a lifelong STL fan in Houston

I am willing to take the accounts of those who see the farm teams live as truthful – while reserving the right to decide if they are indeed correct. That said, regardin jones and Rasmus – it seems like we have 2/3 of a near perfect OF situation for the next decade – something like what TB has now in Upton and Crawford with some age difference. Of course this hinges on prjection, which can be tricky, but i dont think its projection that is outright garish. So if Jones (a leadoff or #2 LF) who may be two years away and Rasmus (a #2 or middle order type CF) who could/should be ready this year are going to be what we expect, I am excited about the way the big club looks for the rest of Pujols’ career in the field. Add to that Wallace who will either play 3B or oops – i guess that’s where the rub is. If Wallace can’t play 3B he takes DJ’s spot and we are looking for a RF. Anyhow I hope MO stays the course and puts together the team we are hoping for. On the downside this team of the future has no frontline SP on the horizon which makes the Peavy deal if it doesnt include Rasmus palatable to me. I also think an OF of Barton, Rasmus and either Ludwick or Ankiel and Mather as the 4OF would be just fine while waiting for Daryl Jones or Jon Jay.

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

robinson is similar to jay...

both small, good hitters, but too ‘eckstein-y’… never going to hit for much power or rbis.

by RedbirdAvenger on Oct 22, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

jay's a better fielder with more power and better plate discipline

Robinson is a better fielding outfield version of Aaron Miles.

by azruavatar on Oct 22, 2008 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice analysis.

I agree with your list, as well as Anderson being the best trading chip the Cards have (assuming they’ll hold on to Rasmus). But, is a guy like Anderson a good enough prospect to be a centerpiece in a trade? What could we expect in return?

by mikeonthecards on Oct 22, 2008 12:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I come to VEB every single day...

so finding myself on EVB this morning (El Vivi Birders?) was quite a shock.

by stlfan on Oct 22, 2008 12:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

hahahaha

I was thinking the same thing

"All baseball fans can be divided into two groups: those who come to batting practice and the others. Only those in the first category have much chance of amounting to anything."--Thomas Boswell

by albrtfn on Oct 22, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

isn't that based on a true story?

i seem to recall one of the P-D writers famously got the name of the site wrong… not hard to do when it comes to those new-fangled “bloggy” interweb dealies. maybe danup should change the name to “el momo’s basement”

by mattybobo on Oct 22, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes sir it's a true story

That P-D writer would be the annoyingly self absorbed Joe Strauss in one of his “I know everything but don’t have any facts to back it up” Live segments. He wrote that he never reads blogs but that Derrick Goold likes El Vivi Bridos, which seemed strange since Goold has a link on the side-bar of the P-D’s own blog to this very web site. And for the record, to this day, I have still been unable to locate this wonderful site El Vivi Birdos, but the search will continue. I’m guessing in vane.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Oct 22, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sweet. i knew i remembered that.

it is sort of unfair to expect a guy like strauss to know anything about us nerdly VORPies who scuttle across the floor of the web-net like so many bottom feeders.

by mattybobo on Oct 22, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he was smart

He would steal half the shit we say and claim it for his own

by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 22, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

MOOOOMMM......MEATLOAF

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Oct 22, 2008 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good post RB

I agree, Anderson looks to be our best trade chip. Along with Craig imo. we can also afford to trade any of Schumaker, Ankiel, and probably even Jones if anyone thinks highly of him outside of our org. which makes it look like we should limit our trade talks to teams that don’t need pitching.

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 1:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mather

I’m not sure I buy Mather as a big-time power guy. With the exception of this year’s Memphis stint (.630 SLG in 211 at bats/59 games) and his time last year at Springfield (.607 SLG in 234 at bats/64 games), he has not put up a SLG higher than .475 at any level (he hit that .475 in part of a season at Palm Beach in 2005 and then had .474 with the big club this year in limited action). Maybe he’s turned it around or it’s clicked, and his true level is somewhere between that .475 and the Pujolsian .630, but it’s worth noting that the big numbers he put up in AA in 2007 and AAA in 2008 came when he was slightly old for each league (at least from a “prospect” standpoint). I think Mather is at most, in full playing time, a low 20s homer kind of talent. Useful, but nothing to get too crazy about.

by holden on Oct 22, 2008 1:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

[lack of hard evidence alert!] i remember reading about Mather's power turn-around...

that one of the minor league coaches convinced him his swing (or approach, or whatever… i don’t remember the specifics) wasn’t taking advantage of his natural power potential, since he’s a fairly big and strong guy. this does not refute the effect his relative old-ness of course, but i thought it was interesting. obviously it’s not wise to expect him to hit 35 bombs every year or something, but i dunno. he could surprise us.
oh, and i think i read this about mather in the official cardinals gameday mag, or whatever it’s called. it’s fairly simplistic and kinda homer/propaganda-ish, but i think it’s also possible they get some inside information that could be fairly reliable.

by mattybobo on Oct 22, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I do realize that he was old, but

Power hitters blossom later.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Oct 22, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so did this coach enocourage him to just go caveman on the ball

and swing as hard as possible? Because thats what it looked like this year.

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don't remember, honestly

in fact, it was kind of vague—not the most in-depth reporting obviously. i do remember some comment about mathet “hitting like a little guy” or something like that, instead of the “big guy” that he could/should be. maybe it was a mechanical thing, maybe it was sacrificing contact for power, i honestly don’t know enough to say. but it seemed at least plausible from the report that mather had made an actual, effective change in his hitting approach, and then became joey bombs.

by mattybobo on Oct 22, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

pretty much

His pitch selection has always been fairly solid but his swing was very reactionary. In batting practice he shown that with a committed swing he would hammer the ball.

So all he’s pretty much done is gone from a reactionary/handle the pitch swing to a attack on sight swing. And while it looks caveman’ish, it sure looks great. His swing is gorgeous and you have no doubts he didn’t leave anything in the tank after it’s all said and done.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matter in fact

as far as asthetics (read: not talent) I’d say Mather has the second prettiest RH swing on the team, behind Glaus. Albert’s is great too, but it’s quite mechanical. Which shows the talent part of it, but isn’t so pretty.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you must like loooooonnnnnnnngggggggg loopy siwngs with holes like swiss cheese then.

how can you say Glaus has a ‘prettier’ swing that Albert. I dont get it.

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

albert's swing is quite mechanical

it’s been noted as such, it’s approached almost as an exact science on how he looks at it.

and note, I said from an asthetics point of view, not how well it hits (talent).

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get what youre saying but Ted Williams was a bit of a scientist regarding the swing

the two (science and aesthetics) arent mutually exclusive. About Glaus, I just think he has a really really long swing and I dont find that pretty. Especially when he’s getting dusted on the inner half.

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take

Pujols’ swing over any other RHB in the game today. He has more chance for contact through the zone than just about anyone else. You could teach people how to play baseball using 99% of his swings.

Aesthetically, I think it looks just as nice as well. If you’re going for “classic swing” like a Ken Griffey Jr. or something…keep in mind, Albert’s body shape probably would not allow that to happen. Of course, the way Albert swings, he will never strike out 163 times in a season like Troy Glaus or 121 times in a season like Griffey.

by stlfan on Oct 23, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's that reason that I don't see him being that good of a trade chip

might as well keep him around to see if he blossoms, cuz right now I don’t think we’ll get much of a haul in return.

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So aside from the last TWO years he hasn't displayed power, therefore he doesn't have big power?

He’s had a ~.250 ISO for two years, he has legit power.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Oct 22, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It depends on how you look at it and how you project that . . .

The last two years, he’s shown good but not great power in limited action at the Major League Level, and very good power at minor league levels for which he’s been slightly older than the competition. I’m willing to entertain that he’s figured things out in the past two years and that with more time he’ll come closer to the minor league levels of production, but it must also be considered that his breakthrough performances at AA in 2007 and AAA at the beginning of this year are aided in part by small sample sizes (no more than half a year at each) and his age/skills relative to the competition. For the portion of 2007 that he spent at AAA (which was more age appropriate), his line was very similar to what he put up in the majors this year . But even with a not-so-shabby roughly .230 ISO this year (using the simple ISO calculation) at the major league leavel, that level of power is not doing a whole lot with a batting average as low as .240; you need to get into Ryan Howard levels of SLG (mid-.500s) to overcome that type of batting average, and even that still leaves a bit to be desired. I hope that Mather is able to harness his considerable talent and put everything together to put up numbers that, while short of his 2008 AAA performance, are better than average. But the reality is, he has two really good half years in the past 2 full seasons, and two middling half years. It’s just too early to tell where his true level is.

by holden on Oct 22, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK

The major league batting average was more the result of .258 BABIP, no striking out 30% of the time like Howard. If he sports a normal BABIP his major league line looks like .270/.330/.500 which is pretty much dead on his Memphis MLE of .265/.336/.515. He’s not a .240 hitter……..and he’s performed at a .500 SLG level for awhile now; he’s already an above average hitting outfielder + good defense and if his plate discipline comes along he’s potentially a .900+ OPS star caliber player. Mather is really underrated round these parts.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Oct 22, 2008 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

very underrated.

his power for sure isn’t a fluke, it’s the result of a different approach at the plate.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BABIP

Fair point on the BABIP, although Mather’s K% (24) and BB% (8) at the MLB level still leave a bit to be desired. My main point is that it’s difficult based on his limited MLB experience and limited time this year mashing in AAA to draw any real conclusions about what his real level of performance in the coming years is going to be. I will be very interested to see where the various projection systems see Mather for 2009. For what it’s worth, a line of .270/.330/.500 (his MLB line from this year adjusted for league average BABIP), is more or less consistent with PECOTA’s 90th percentile forecast for him for this year (he was slightly higher on the SLG and slightly lower on the OBP than that forecast), so I would think that next year’s projection will be higher than the 250/.317/.430 for 2009 that the computer spit out at the beginning of this year.

by holden on Oct 23, 2008 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mather=Jayson Werth?

I think perhaps Mather’s upside might be that of Jayson Werth, though not necessarily the Werth we saw in 2008. Beyond the physical similarities, I see Mather as an athletic corner OF who could cover CF in a pinch, and who would be a very good RH bat off the bench. I think Mather probably has a better eye than Werth, while Werth is a better baserunner/basestealer and might have more power. The Dodgers were patient with Werth, but eventually let him go to Philly where he has blossomed at age 28-29 with .870 OPS (park adjusted) over 2 seasons in Philly. Not bad at all.

by Hungry Jack on Oct 22, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm sounds good.....Werth is a nice player.

He spent a lot of time overcoming injuries and all; he’s also now being trusted to bat against both Left and right handed pitchers. Mather=Werth? Let’s get the young man some more playing time and see….

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Oct 22, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

peeved we didn't sigh him when he was a fa

he is kind of a legacy after all

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Oct 22, 2008 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm over my Peavy lust...

Rasmus should stay and be flanked by Ankiel in RF and Ludwick in LF or vice versa…Hell put Rasmus in LF Ank in CF and Luds in RF.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again if Rasmus pans out ala Longoria he should stay.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Oct 22, 2008 2:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

he could be better

so we should keep him and see what he does.

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's keep both Rasmus and Ankiel

Then we can add an infielder, since we’ll only need two guys to cover the outfield. Wonder if that’s been done since the beginning of baseball history?

by Red in Chicago on Oct 22, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why not?

Ronnie Belliard can play deep second. Ludwick can play shallow left.

by Red in Chicago on Oct 22, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope second is occupied

They’re moving Freese there like DeWitt did for the Dodgers.

by birdo rojo on Oct 22, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe

but DeWitt is 5-11, 175 lbs, while Freese is 6-2, 220. While it might make sense, Freese seems like he might be too big for 2B

by Knighttime on Oct 22, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Someone actually asked Freese about it

It was in an interview I saw a few days ago (and can’t find the link to now) and he basically laughed it off. Although I’d like to see someone try to take him out to break out of a double play.

Pujols does have some experience there…

by birdo rojo on Oct 22, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

let pujols play every position

maybe then they’ll let him hit in every spot in the lineup, with ghost baserunners. an all-pujols lineup would score 1000 runs easily.

by mattybobo on Oct 22, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if any managers

would walk Pujols with a base empty to get to Pujols?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Oct 22, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

on

4000 walks

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

off topic

but i noticed at Beyond the Bos Score they put up their shiny new “FIP+” stuff for the NL central. the cards’ pitching overall seemed a little scary compared to the rest of the division, at least by this measure. anybody who knows more than me about FIP think this is worth worrying about? obviously injuries are always a part of something like this, and our 2009 pitching staff won’t look exactly (understatement) like it did this past year. FIP thinks Wellemeyer was lucky, for example. thoughts?

by mattybobo on Oct 22, 2008 3:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I am a fan of tRA over at

www.statcorner.com tRA* is a good predictor of future levels.

by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 22, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not overly concerned

some pitchers like wellemeyer, will never look good on the FIP measurment, as long as they follow their career norms.
notice FIP+ shows thompson as an above average pitcher (by FIP+), while wellemeyer ranked as below average in 08?

wellemeyer has always had a BB issue to monitor. since BB is one of the 3 main factors in the formula, and outweighs K’s 3/2, it cancels out wellemeyers good K rate that gets him out of many innings with runners on.

contact pitchers like thompson or looper, will rely more heavily on the defensive effeciency w/runners on, turning GB into outs and double plays. FIP stats monitor just the opposite, outcomes strictly pitcher based, defense excluded.

by ball in play on Oct 22, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats why I like tRA

It takes FIP to the next level. It includes shows when you throw an average defense and average park factor into the mix.

by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 22, 2008 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don't know enough about tRA to respond......

but i’m going to check into it now, ty for the link. it’s basically FIP and DEF combined? that’s overdue, very interesting :)

by ball in play on Oct 22, 2008 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's just FIP taking more things into account

FIP ignores things like groundball/line drive rates, let alone in field flyball rates. tRA is FIP plus batted ball types to simplify it.

Kosuke Fukudome: $48 million .257 .359 .379
Skip Schumaker: $Free .302 .359 .406
Skippy needs a new publicist, but I heart Ben Zobrist

by joker24 on Oct 22, 2008 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Still can be in the Peavy trade

Todd’s value probably will never go up higher than it is right now. Their is a buzz about him and for that he has to go. The Braves seem the one that is going to get Peavy with a package of Tommy Hanson, Jordan Schafer, and Kelley Johnson. Why don’t we make it a three way trade in which we take KJ? We give Todd to the Padres and we get KJ. Maybe another low level prospect back to the Braves.

Seems like a Win-Win-Win for all of three of us.

by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 22, 2008 3:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

drop the braves and add the Yankees for the 3 way

pick up on the crazy Cards and Yankees rumor.

Yankees get Rick Ankiel (CF), Bryan Anderson ©

Cards get Jake Peavy (P), Khalil Greene (SS), Phil Hughes (P)

Padres get Ian Kennedy (P), Jess Todd (P), Tyler Heron (P), Austin Jackson (CF), and their choice of Brian Barden/Tyler Greene/Pete Kozma

by Knighttime on Oct 22, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i know i know

but hey – that crazy rumor of Ankiel and Anderson for Hughes, Kennedy, and a prospect (i.e. where I added Austin Jackson). just flip it into a crazy 3-way.

just run with that, and we read that the Padres want at least (2) young pitchers a CF or a MIF for Peavy.

by Knighttime on Oct 22, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm all for it

Let’s empty New York’s farm system. Whatever it takes to get Jake!

by Red in Chicago on Oct 22, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NY and SD both get completely pillaged in that trade.

especially once you consider the Yankees only get Ankiel and the copyright for Brian Anderson.

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

if it was the trademark it’d be a different story

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Oct 22, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't start the rumor

of Ankiel and Anderson for Hughes, Kennedy, and a prospect. nor do i believe it.

by Knighttime on Oct 22, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dude, how did that get in there.

LOL, man i did not see that at all. That is hilarious. how in the hell…

by Knighttime on Oct 22, 2008 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't do that!

I already have a copyright on Bryan Anderson

by Ray Lankford on Oct 22, 2008 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wallace in Springfield, Then Memphis

I think he will start the season in Springfield and move up to Memphis in about July. David Freese getting called up to St. Louis potentially would open a spot at AAA for Wallace. Brett is ahead of schedule and needs some more seasoning at AA before going to Memphis, but he has got a ton of potential.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Oct 22, 2008 3:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

let's not get too far in front

check the walrus in afl

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Oct 22, 2008 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols named Sporting News Player of the Year

Just one step away from NL MVP! Let’s hope he gets it!

We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

by KYCards on Oct 22, 2008 3:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think that we're all at the point

where if he doesn’t get the MVP, we’ll start valuing awards such as that and the players’ awards far more.

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's a good point

part of why i’m invested in pujols winning the MVP is that i don’t feel that people really care about the other awards, like outstanding player of the year, etc. however, if he loses it again this year it could be a kind of tipping point. the MVP will clearly have no discernable meaning anymore, so maybe it will lose its appeal a little? could be wishful thinking though.

by mattybobo on Oct 22, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I certainly wouldn't give MVP

signifcant meaning anymore if Pujols doesn’t win it…

Ryan Howard: one of the most Statistically Outstanding players of all time

by RunninRedbird on Oct 22, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We are long past the point where MVP matters

The seriousness with which we should take this has been undermined for decades. In 1999 when Ivan Rodriguez won over Pedro Martinez (who finished second, but had more first place votes) because two writers left Pedro off their ballots completely on the grounds that they could not vote for a pitcher for MVP anywhere on the ballot (even when by rule, voters must recuse themselves if they will categorically not vote for a pitcher). One of those two writers, George King of the New York Post, had actually given MVP votes to two pitchers (David Wells and Rick Helling of the Yankees, who he covered on his beat) the year before. Juan Gonzalez put up some park-inflated HR and RBI numbers and trumped worthier runners-up in 1996 and 1998; more recently Justin Morneau (who arguably was the third most valuable player on his team after Joe Mauer and Johan Santana) took an award in 2006 that should have probably gone to Jeter. Howard over Pujols in 2006 looks like a justifiable call until you adjust for how much better Albert’s defense is/was than Howard’s. And on and on. . .

by holden on Oct 22, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess if he wins it...

it’s a step back in the right direction at least.

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"we are long past the point"...

i think the “we” you are referring to represents the “enlightened fan”. certainly the MVP is already silly, and truly speaking, meaningless. however, the world at large believes all sorts of things that aren’t actually true. this i what i was trying to get at.
i’m hoping for a future scenario where the MVP awards get so dumb that even the masses don’t really care about them. does anybody really care about the Grammy awards? hell, i don’t know of the average joe even cares about the Oscars anymore. i’m wondering if the perceived (as opposed to actual) worth of the MVP will ever get low enough that things will get better, or other, better awards will start to matter more—like outstanding player of the year, or maybe alternative awards from the SABR-esque or internet baseball community, etc.
again, i totally agree with you that the MVP award is a non-objective, silly, award, entirely arbitrary. forgive me for getting all liberal arts up in here, but it is doxa, not episteme. it is stil taken to be important by way too many people. can that ever change?

by mattybobo on Oct 22, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

in addition to the avg fans caring about it for the reasons stated below

ill tell you who else is always going to care about it. Agents and by extension players. The scenario in which the worth of the MVP becomes dilluted and rejected played out in the NBA during the mid 90’s. It became an award based on the season prior when Robinson won it in 94and was destroyed by Olajuwon in the playoffs. The criteria of the award started to change and the whole thing got convalluted. This has continued in the present day when people like Kobe win it bc they havent gotten one yet bc other people like Dirk won one in previous years. Its all stupid, i agree, but you know what – people including fans and players still care about it.

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Enlightened fan

Of course MVP matters to a whole lot of people, and I suspect it will never be supplanted in prominence and importance. It just shouldn’t be thus, at least not until they overhaul the system and stop letting morons and the intellectually lazy vote. But the same could be said for all manner of elections.

by holden on Oct 23, 2008 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the MVP will never lose relevance

bc its the award the media recites – for better or worse. Youre not going to hear Buck or McCarver saying Ryan Howard has a chance to repeat as Sporting News player of the year during the WS.

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To add..

Anderson is young enough and in a position where he’s a low risk if you give him a full year at AAA to further develop. Hit bat isn’t really a question while he may grow into more power. His defense still is. Even if his bat suffers some in ‘09, his defense should improve. So I’d like to keep him in AAA. Let’s have an extra option while seeing how Yadi holds up

Despite what was said above, Mather’s power potential is for real. His batting approach has changed and he’s been taught to commit earlier in the pitch which allows him a heavier swing. So while he looks like a tornado when he swings now, it’s all for a reason. Having seen him in Memphis a few of times makes me want to say Mather can hit a breaking ball fairly well. While his new all or nothing swing may hamper how well he does in the future, I’d say the ’can’t hit a breaking ball’ is more of the Lidge moment than it is of what he can do.

Boggs can be a solid #3 projection if he can get a serviceable changeup across the plate. That’s something he barely used this year because what he has… well, sucks. Look at his splits – Lefties hammered him. If he can get a changeup in there where he’s putting his slurve, he’ll fair a lot better. His fastball’s movement is special.

Am I the only one that hates the physical “limitations” of Todd “issues”? He can be 5’5’’ and as long as he puts up similar numbers next year in AAA he’s a true asset in my book.

Freese/Wallace/Craig issue is really something. I mean, are we in the middle of “get 5 apples and find the best one” setup? Or have we projected other teams to start needing 3rd basemen here in the next year or so. We got De La Cruz from Latin America signings this year as well, and he projects to have a very, very solid bat. If that happens, we’re not just stocked at 3b, we’re loaded

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 7:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

hmmm

create a shortage of mashing 3rd basemen and then drive up the value, I like it.

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As far as the value they’ll have in that situation, it’s kinda scary. We have 3b that look to have varying years to develop, so they don’t have too much overlap. Freese is probably ready now, Wallace and Craig are at least a year away and De La Cruz is probably at least two years away, even with a developed bat.

So we can ladder them a bit in the minors, but not for long. Also to add when another team looks at us and needs a 3b, I don’t know if glut actually helps the value going along. When you give up the perception of needing to move an asset that’s not being used, it’s hard to drive value. Also adding that a couple of them have concerns on sticking to 3b, which doesn’t help.

3b is a mess, loaded with talent, but a mess.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Add in the concept that if Glaus performs as well as he did this year. If the price is right do we offer him an extension for a year or two? His allergies really wrecked havoc on his stats with a solid month or so of bleh. Suffice to say he could actually perform better next year given the allergy issue is a non-issue. Add in GG defense and it’s hard to think a 2 year deal may not be worth it. I don’t think we can trade him due to a nontrade clause, so I don’t see us moving him midyear.

Add in a reasonable price for Glaus and 3b gets even stickier. However, he’ll most likely be a Type A leaving next year so while it’s a year away I’m already thinking draft picks.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the only way this helps is if there's a shortage of plus hitting third basemen in the league

so all of our prospects would have to be among the best up and coming 3rd basemen

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 22, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it would be neat

to look at all 3b prospects and where they’re projected and see where our guys line up.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Despite what was said above, Mather’s power potential is for real. His batting approach has changed and he’s been taught to commit earlier in the pitch which allows him a heavier swing. So while he looks like a tornado when he swings now, it’s all for a reason.


You’re going to have to explain what that means. Great hitters try to commit as late as possible which allows them greater chance of pitch recognition and the ability to keep their hands back along with their weight so they can keep from getting out on their front foot and off balance if the pitch is a breaking ball or changeup.

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry, I don’t mean commitment to the pitch during the swing, i mean commitment to what he has an idea is coming. I can’t recall where I read it, but I recall reading a quote earlier in the year where he said he has a solid idea of the pitcher’s pitch selection and what’s coming, and while before he wouldn’t commit to it, now he’s committing (read: looking for) that pitch and swinging with that commitment.

In short, his swing is a lot less reactionary and more attacking. Which plays in his physical strength.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think i get what youre saying

but if theyre turning Mather into a ‘guess’ hitter Im not that keen on it. But Edmonds was a guess hitter and it worked for him – he had the HR’s and K’s to prove that. If what youre talking about is an approach more like Albert’s (attacking a pitch in a spot he’s looking for) compared to someone like Derek Lee’s (react to the pitch) than I like the idea.

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

" If what youre talking about is an approach more like Albert’s (attacking a pitch in a spot he’s looking for) compared to someone like Derek Lee’s (react to the pitch) than I like the idea."

Is what I’m aiming at.

If it was the former I’d be just as uninspired as you are.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really...

I wanted to make a comment about the lineups but I couldn’t…

Ryan Howard: one of the most Statistically Outstanding players of all time

by RunninRedbird on Oct 22, 2008 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

acapella noooo!

I’m looking forward to free tacos, though.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 22, 2008 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that was one of the worst renditions ever.

We’re not here to listen to the damn backstreet boys. we dont give a rats ass about you or that youre 15 minutes have been cancelled. So just sing the song – we dont need a 15 minute interpretation so you can sit in front of the camera with your goofy ass haircuts.

by rlgosnell on Oct 22, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that hairline on the right most one looked awkward. – go bald

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 22, 2008 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

somebody want to start a fanpost?

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Oct 22, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

done

i started a fanpost for the world series thread. It’ll work till we get an official thread.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Oct 22, 2008 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh you just had to get in an MVP dig, dincha. sigh.

Now my NL goodwill is gone.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 22, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2009 10,000 wins pool

This idea would fit much better in a thread some time in March, but it just came to me and I’m sure I’ll forget it by then, so I thought I’d post it now. The Cardinals franchise has 9929 wins; we’re 71 away from becoming the third team to reach 10,000, following the Giants and Cubs. Once the offseason trades are done we should have a VEB pool guessing what game next year will be the 10,000th win (God forbid it doesn’t happen until 2010…). Playing .500 ball will get us there on September 5-6; early-mid August sure would look nice….

by BTown Birds fan on Oct 22, 2008 8:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll optimistically say August 16 at home against the Padres,

but I reserve the right to change that date once trades are made (and to completely forget I even made a prediction).

by BTown Birds fan on Oct 22, 2008 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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