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October 2, 2008 Playoff Games Open Thread

Adam1_tiny by chuckb on in News

The Sox and Rays get started today w/ Javier Vazquez going against James Shields. Vazquez has been positively awful in his last 3 starts (18 ER in 12 IP) and Guillen's been going w/ a 4 man rotation for about 10 days now. He may run those starters into the ground in his quest to bring a title back to the south side. It says something about how good Shields has become that he's the game 1 starter over Kazmir. He's less heralded than his teammate but he's been very good since the beginning of last season. And he's just 26.

The Brewers and the Phils are the prime time game -- Sabathia against Brett Myers. I like the Phils in this series but Sabathia's going to give fits and the starting rotation is probably the Phils' achilles heel. It's now a 2 out of 3 series for the Phils. They'd better finish it off in 4 b/c they're not going to want to face the big guy a 2nd time.

Finally, it'll be the big Z against my favorite Dodger -- Chad Billingsley. He's 24 years young and, if you didn't already know it, one of the best pitchers in the NL. He's going to be some kind of special. The Cubs had better hope he's got some postseason jitters b/c Zambrano's been shaky of late (no-hitter excepted) as he battles the injury bug. The rumor is that Piniella's going to have Ted Lilly (did you know his real name was Theodore Roosevelt? I didn't make that up!) ready in case Zambrano's in trouble early. The Cubs do not want to go to LA down 0-2. Kuroda and the Dodgers' pen are better than you might think.

Today's sbnation friends include

Brew Crew Ball

The Good Phight

Bleed Cubbie Blue

True Blue LA

South Side Sox

DRays Bay

Feel free to also check out the sbnation postseason threads on the right-side toolbar.

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Is there any way...

… we can trade for Longoria? Dude’s a stud. 2 HRs in 2 postseason ABs.

by WastedTalent on Oct 2, 2008 3:37 PM EDT   0 recs

crap

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Oct 2, 2008 11:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Really Bank of America?

I don’t think Cardinal fans dress up like Witch Doctors. We don’t need curses to explain why our team loses or costumes to make them win again.

Obama/Pujols 2008.

by davethebutcher on Oct 2, 2008 3:46 PM EDT   0 recs

Will we see a repete of the June 7th game between the Cubs & Dodgers?

What happened?

Cubs ace Carlos Zambrano lost his seven-game winning streak and his temper after giving up a season-high seven runs, including five in the seventh inning. Zambrano took his frustrations out on a drink cooler after exiting the game.

We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

by KYCards on Oct 2, 2008 3:53 PM EDT   0 recs

Gatorade really needs to sponsor Z

He gets their product on Camera so often, and shows off the durability of their coolers.

Obama/Pujols 2008.

by davethebutcher on Oct 2, 2008 4:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

longoria - in play, runs

i think this kid has talent

by mattybobo on Oct 2, 2008 4:16 PM EDT   0 recs

Seriously though,

total pro.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Oct 2, 2008 4:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

how much pressure is on the Cubs shoulders right now?

they have lost the first game of the short series, are expected to win, and have the whole mythos of the curse around them?

Did anyone think they would be anywhere but in the world series?

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Oct 2, 2008 4:50 PM EDT   0 recs

this game tonight is unbelievably huge for the team

Big Z has got to be having a few butterflies right now, to put it mildly

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 2, 2008 4:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Suppose Longoria...

needs any help? That kid is on fire today…3 for 3, 2HR, BB, SB, 3RBI and 2R’s. He’s my new reason for keeping up with the playoffs. Too bad I don’t have cable/satelite. Are the LCS’s on TBS or Fox?

by cardzfanbub on Oct 2, 2008 5:10 PM EDT   0 recs

So much for the "need PROVEN vets for the playoffs" theory.

Anyone here think if we had a rook like that he would even have started the game?

by DriverZn on Oct 2, 2008 5:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

obviously

he became a proven vet sometime between the end of the season and today’s game, which allowed him to perform When It Counts.

It takes a keen managerial eye to notice exactly when this happens.

by DanUpBaby on Oct 2, 2008 5:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree

look at all the youth on that team. Everyone knew it was just a matter of time and as soon as those young pitchers came around, they became potent. Bartlett’s helped to settle down their infield defense — he’s probably (along w/ Gross) the oldest guy in their lineup except for DH Cliff Floyd. The Cards farm has come a long way but we’re nowhere near the Rays in terms of good, young players.

And their best pitcher may be sitting in their pen — David Price.

by chuckb on Oct 2, 2008 5:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

actually, pena and iwamura are 30 and 29 respectively

but your overall point is right on. i thought those two were younger, personally.

by mattybobo on Oct 2, 2008 5:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

very true

forgot about them. Pena took a long time to develop. It’s good to take a chance on those guys sometimes, right Mr. Ludwick?

by chuckb on Oct 2, 2008 5:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Iwamura was a pretty expensive chance

considering the posting fee they had to give up.

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Oct 2, 2008 8:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

DriverZn............. I understand the point you are trying to make but you chose a bad example.

Albert Pujols played as rookie in 2001 during the play-offs. Albert played the whole regular season as well.

Evan Longoria is playing in the play-offs as a rookie but he did play 122 games for the Rays this year.

You act like Longoria fell out of the sky and Maddon just decided “well I should start this guy because I think he is good”….. His season stats moved him into vet status.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 2, 2008 5:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Albert, the best players of our generation isn't really a good comp.

Look back to how JD Drew was handled. Or how Rick Ankiel was handled in the playoffs. Those are players of more comparable talent.

My issue with TLR is he will often bench players with more talent for players he “trusts”.

Or in 2004 when Haren was put in the pen in favor of a more trustworthy Morris who clearly was in steep decline.

by DriverZn on Oct 2, 2008 6:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I get what you are saying....

I was just saying that Longoria put up solid stats all year. I doubt if Longoria played 122+ games in STL Tony would sit him in the play-offs…….

That’s just crazy.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 2, 2008 6:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sure...

but would Longoria even GET 122+ games if he were playing in STL?

My magic 8 ball says: “Outlook not so good.”

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Oct 2, 2008 7:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What?

This conversation is going no where…….

If the Cards don’t have Glaus? I don’t get it

by ICbirdfan on Oct 2, 2008 7:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Another good example would be Tim Lincecum

Would he have been the pitcher he is today if he was a card?

Or would we have tinkered with his mechanics to get more on top of the ball, stand more upright, stride less, pitch down in the zone, …

by DriverZn on Oct 2, 2008 8:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think its just frustration.

I (and I think others) are tired of the same re-hashed and washed up vets being run out there while we would really like to see what the younger players on our team can do. Its clear from the playoffs that young teams can win every bit as well as “vet” teams. This whole thing about “needing players he can trust” is just a misguided belief.

So we have started our offseason early and begun by signing a average pitcher to a big contract. Would we still be playing games if our manager didn’t have this obsession and played Perez, Mott, and Barden when is was clear Franklin, Izzy, and AK were not up to the task?

The fact that a team full of young players is doing well just rubs the salt in the wounds. Meanwhile we are told that YP hasn’t earned it, and we need to spend big $$$ on a players that project to be no better. At the same time the proof that young players can in fact play the game is right in front of our eyes for all to see (except TLR).

by DriverZn on Oct 2, 2008 8:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i agree with you in principle

but who projects to be better than lohse, in our system, for 2009? The specter of 2007 still looms in my mind, and while I think that the contract to lohse may be one we regret, it isn’t going to be that brutal.

The idea of going into a season without 6 viable starting pitchers is terrifying to me, and I’m willing to rationalize away one Lohse. i don’t LIKE it, but I’ll accept it.

If we trade Rasmus straight up for Holliday, I’ll break something expensive— but if we could get Holliday without giving up rasmus or todd, I’ll be very very happy. The same goes for Brian Giles, though we shouldn’t give up any of our real prospects for him. Maybe give them Freese back…

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Oct 2, 2008 8:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree

Look at his stats in 2007-2008 in the minors.

He woudnt get a shot up this year

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/L/evan-longoria.shtml

but who knows

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Oct 2, 2008 8:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Werent his stats fairly dissapointing when they called him?

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Oct 2, 2008 8:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

just dropping by to say

more cowbell!

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 2, 2008 5:16 PM EDT   0 recs

I take it there's more synchronization in Japan

And songs to memorize for each player and rituals and do they still have those nets around the field?

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 2, 2008 5:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Harold Reynolds

Worse than Joe Morgan? It’s possible.

by Phizzle on Oct 2, 2008 5:33 PM EDT   0 recs

He's not impressing me

I hear people bitch all the time about how much better espn would be if they hadn’t of fired him. Like it’s their fault he was playing quick hands with the female staff members? Yet, he is not any good. It’s the ol’ grass is always greener theory, me thinks.

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Oct 2, 2008 5:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree

that comment about why it’s great for closers to enter w/ a 3 run lead. Thanks for the insight, Mr. Baseball!

by chuckb on Oct 2, 2008 5:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

he provides joe morgan-quality analysis

with chris rock’s whiny voice. I don’t see what the problem is.

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Oct 2, 2008 5:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I was going to say he sounds like Chris Rock

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Oct 2, 2008 8:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

my GF is infatuated with chris rock

she has watched that darned show that is currently on HBO about 25 times now. Driving me crazy.

Much like harold reynolds.

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Oct 2, 2008 8:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

ouch

I had a girlfriend in H.S. that was into Dice Clay. It was a a disappointment when I came to find out she didn’t have any of the “qualities” Dice Clay promoted. Sigh

Those were the days

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 2, 2008 8:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Cow bells and mohawks

I’m starting to reconsider the whole Rays-tober thing. Not completely, just starting to reconsider it. I feel like I’m watching a high school football team on their quest for a State championship.

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Oct 2, 2008 5:48 PM EDT   0 recs

I don't really mind it

Reminds me of some wilder minor league affiliates. Maybe in another decade they’ll settle down, but if MLB wants to put down roots in Florida, may have to start there.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 2, 2008 6:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That's a Winner!

The (adopted) dream is alive!

Obama/Pujols 2008.

by davethebutcher on Oct 2, 2008 5:49 PM EDT   0 recs

go rays

go rays

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Oct 2, 2008 5:51 PM EDT   0 recs

hard to root for anyone. need more coffee.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 2, 2008 6:33 PM EDT   0 recs

How many starts does this make

for CC on three days rest? I’ve lost track…

Ryan Howard: one of the most Statistically Outstanding players of all time

by RunninRedbird on Oct 2, 2008 6:42 PM EDT   0 recs

guess we know

How long he can last on short rest, now.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 2, 2008 6:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep

That would be three games, and three innings. Knowledge that will come in handy when he’s pitching for the Cards next season.

What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs. ~Harry Caray

by Tupelo on Oct 2, 2008 7:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

myers

is having a killer at bat here. nice

by adiueordie on Oct 2, 2008 6:49 PM EDT   0 recs

oh shut up announcers

We Cardinals cheer for productive outs every game.
(Maybe they don’t know what a productive out is.)

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 2, 2008 6:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

wow

mcclung getting loose in the pen already

by adiueordie on Oct 2, 2008 6:53 PM EDT   0 recs

Phillies pull a Dodgers!

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 2, 2008 6:53 PM EDT   0 recs

hmm

the phillies dodgers nlcs is gonna be pretty good i bet.

by adiueordie on Oct 2, 2008 7:13 PM EDT   0 recs

noooooo i will not accept franktv

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 2, 2008 7:18 PM EDT   0 recs

Untucked & Deflated

I guess it is true, home runs are rally killers.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 2, 2008 7:23 PM EDT   0 recs

pitcher's duel!

In every sense of the word! Hahahaha!

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 2, 2008 7:28 PM EDT   0 recs

in the matrix thread I said

they need to get insurance for carp going down…i think it wasn interpreted as literal. I mean they need to try and get another arm instead of year 2/of wait and see then no go. If they really want to try and win that is. Write now you have waino, loshe,welley,pinero and who?? I would not count carp as a given and dont think they shuld either…maybe try to get lowe or someone?

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Oct 2, 2008 7:36 PM EDT   0 recs

I thought you meant literal

When getting that 5th starter do you got reliable or risk-higher reward?

I think we can get Pinero replacement level out of Boggs so would like us to go towards a higher risk guy like Brad Penny on a one year deal

by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 2, 2008 11:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sabathia's out!

Bases loaded, 4 i.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 2, 2008 7:37 PM EDT   0 recs

Howard wasn’t so MVP there eh?

“Just another K”

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 2, 2008 7:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

there is so much poetic justice occurring in this game

hate the IBB to Howard there, btw. Makes it so much harder for him to get to that glorious platinum sombrero…

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Oct 2, 2008 8:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Not so fast

his “Statistically Outstandingness” went up.

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Oct 2, 2008 8:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

202

and counting

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 2, 2008 8:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That's Outstanding!

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Oct 2, 2008 8:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It is

A MVP “candidate” that came back to the post season to break 200K (and his highest ever K mark) against a tired CC is quite, well.. outstanding.

MVP More (of us) Value Pujols.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 2, 2008 8:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The "screw FOX" dream series...

of Milwaukee-Tampa is hanging by a thread… Seriously, could there be a lower rated series? STL and DET are glamorous metropolises by comparison.

by guayzimi on Oct 2, 2008 8:24 PM EDT   0 recs

I feel all dirty

wanting Lidge to close this one out. But the pragmatic part of me says Lidge suffered long enough under Albert’s wrath.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 2, 2008 8:32 PM EDT   0 recs

is a forgiving god. not a vengeful god.

Unless you point at the dugout.

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 2, 2008 8:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Has this game been on for like 9 hours?

It’s a 3 run game and I’m bored to tears.

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Oct 2, 2008 9:01 PM EDT   0 recs

it's not just me, then?

"But listen, and understand: more Molinas are out there. They can't be bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear." - THT

by Yadi2Second on Oct 2, 2008 9:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

agreed

even the lead up to the GS was.. boring if you will

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Oct 2, 2008 9:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

There's just something about the Phillies that bores me.

Has nothing to do with their players. Every time they’re in the post season, I can’t watch without falling to sleep for some reason. I think it’s their stupid-ass candy striped uniforms. Looks like they should be selling cotton candy in the Instructional League.

(credit B. Burr for that one)

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Oct 2, 2008 9:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs