hot stove catch-all thread 10/13-10/19
Hey everybody i recently realized that our hot stove thread expired yesterday, so i took the liberty of making a new catch-all thread for this week. Interesting topics... maybe more jake peavy rumors, or if it suits your fancy, a ridiculous trade scenario where the cards get arod, king felix, and brandon webb. Anyways the best of this week should definitely go in this post, no matter what happens to come up during this week
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Comments
Looking for a Bargin
I think when looking for any new players we should always buy low and sell high. So I have been looking for the ‘luckiest’ and ‘unluckiest’ players in the MIF. I have been using the HardballTimes THT stat PrOPS – OPS from 2008 for this.
I am just going to focus on 2B and SS that we could potentially get
Luckiest
Name – PrOps – OPS – Props mins OPS (higher this number luckier the are)
Lopez, Felipe – .756 /.964/ .209
Furcal,Rafael – .852/1.012/.160
Barmes, Clint – .740/ .790/ .050
Roberts, Brian – .778/.828/.050
Hudson, Orlando .780/.817/.036
As most has already said Lopez was playing way beyond his skill set and the same with Furcal.
Unlucky
Castillo,Luis – .778/.660/-0.118
Greene,Khalil – .706/.599/ -0.106
Ellis,Mark – .798/.694/-0.104
Izturis,Cesar – .724/.628/-0.095
Renteria,Edgar – .760/.699/-0.061
Now since we are such a ground ball oriented team I going to rank the unlucky players by RZR and OOZ
Name – RZR – OOZ
Ellis, Mark – .897/31 (highest RZR in MLB by 2B and SS)
Izturis,Cesar – .869/58
Greene,Khalil – .835/37
Renteria,Edgar – .800/42
Castillo,Luis – .751/16
Here is just Adam Kennedy’s number just for comparison
Name – RZR – OOZ – PrOps – OPS – Props mins OPS
Kennedy,Adam – .881/31/.714/.692/-0.022
Mark Ellis sure looks like he makes a lot of sense. He was one of the unluckiest hitters in baseball last year and the best fielding 2B in baseball. So you get an undervalued guy with a great glove. He is getting up there in age though now at 32. He is a Type B FA. The A’s are in negotiations with him but they also have multiple young IF’s so will probably try to low ball. He made $5 mil in 08 and this will be the first time he will test the FA market.
by FlimtotheFlam on Oct 13, 2008 5:49 PM EDT 0 recs
very nice work
not much of a saber guy myself…but this is a good look at numbers through a lens i had not seen them through before
if ellis doesnt re-sign with the A’s…he has to be high on the cards list
by VolsnCards5 on
Oct 13, 2008 6:17 PM EDT
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I'm a big Furcal proponent
So I’ll just throw this out there, even though I love what you did as a whole….I don’t think anybody is expecting Furcal to maintain a 1.012 OPS so I don’t think it at all represents what his market will be. I do think that he’ll be expected by most interested teams to put up something in the range of .750-.800 for a few years. For a SS that’s around the top third for the position. If you think, as I do, he is currently above average defensively better yet. And since we have nothing internally to really look forward to in the MI, I think we should be really competitive – assuming he is open to leaving LA.
Now if somebody out there really wants to base his pay on what he did this season, in a short sample, then it will be time to pursue plan B.
by Merry CRasmus on
Oct 13, 2008 10:54 PM EDT
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Another reason to be Pro-Furcal
It would likely preclude signing Fuentes or K-Rod to an over-the-top and silly contract.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on
Oct 14, 2008 9:27 AM EDT
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Furcal...
….did not look so good last night – 3 errors.
:=8/
by The MooCow on
Oct 16, 2008 9:09 AM EDT
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I don't see him making much more than $5.
Considering we gambled nearly that much on Cesar, he seems like a steal to me.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on
Oct 14, 2008 2:26 AM EDT
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There is a difference
between being “lucky” and overperforming. The high PrOPS-OPS people on this list outperformed their predictions, while the low ones flopped. However, some of the overperformers (and here I mean from the overall THT analysis, not the ones you target above) weren’t lucky; they were performing at a higher level because the predictions didn’t reflect their growth as ballplayers. Conversely, some of the underperformers were unlucky, but others have started on the downward spiral toward retirement a little more quickly than expected — and those of course are exactly the guys that we want NOT to see in a Cardinals uniform.
Your list is interesting, but I don’t think it’s really useful without a good sense of why guys made one list or the other.
by StanTheManFan on
Oct 15, 2008 9:39 AM EDT
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i think you are confufing PrOPS with something else
PECOTA, maybe. PrOPS uses ball-in-play data to try to determine how a player should have done, given the skill set he exhibited. The guys performing at a higher level WERE lucky, by definition, if you accept the assumptions that go into PrOPS (it’s perfectly fine not to).
the enemy's gate is down.
by SleepyCA on
Oct 15, 2008 2:53 PM EDT
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Khalil Greene
I have to say that I am a bit intrigued about KG (not the basketball player). He is definitely on a sell low, and I think SD soured on him last season. But as you pointed out his last year was unlucky and not in line with his career numbers:
BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip
.248 .304 .427 .731 .279 career
.213 .260 .339 .599 .255 2008
I know his BA is not great, but he has some pop (~31 AB/HR) and balanced splits so no need to platoon.
But look at his in vs. out of PETCO numbers.
.225 .289 .369 .658 .260 PETCO
.270 .318 .484 .802 .298 Away
Not that Busch is super hitter friendly, but should be better than PETCO?
I know there has already been threads on the Peavy/Greene rumor. I think that intrigues me.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on
Oct 17, 2008 11:32 AM EDT
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Oops
I just read down and saw a sub-thread on this topic. Sorry misplace the previous post.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on
Oct 17, 2008 11:36 AM EDT
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Dammit
I was looking at the numbers in the MI post on the main page and I couldn’t get my arms around how Ellis didin’t have a higher defensive win shares number.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Oct 13, 2008 7:49 PM EDT 0 recs
Anyone concerned that the team's med staff -which has the credibility of a Pravada editorial - has cut into AP?
Heaven help us if he joins: Rolen, Mulder, Carp, Clement, Izzy and so many other “once-weres”!
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Oct 13, 2008 11:26 PM EDT 0 recs
Qustion
Would Scott Rolen have advised Pujols to undergo in-house surgery or to go elsewhere?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on
Oct 14, 2008 9:28 AM EDT
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you are quite the superstitious one
go rays
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Oct 14, 2008 4:20 PM EDT
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That's really not fair.
George Paletta is not a hack. He is one of the top orthopedic surgeons in the country. Rolen had some bad luck and wanted to place blame somewhere. Mulder was injured before her arrived (as he has admitted). As was Carpenter. I have no idea if Clement was looked at. Izzy has had like nine surgeries. You can’t really blame Paletta for his crappy mechanics.
If you want to blame someone, blame the front office. Walt Jocketty is the one who signed all these players without paying attention to their mechanics and injury risk profile.
Seriously, give it a rest. Paletta does as good a job as he can, but he can’t wave a wand and magically cure poor mechanics and years’-old injuries. Dr. James Andrews was brought in as a second opinion. If you’re keeping score, this is the second time in the past three months that Andrews has agreed with Paletta on a high-profile surgery.
by Red in Chicago on
Oct 14, 2008 12:08 PM EDT
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exactly--these doctors aren't bums.
first of all, professional athletes present a completely different picture from the normal patient. they get injured doing things over and over again that most people do not do; when they heal they expect to continue doing these extraordinary things over and over again. it’s not normal medicine.
doctors also can’t fix problems if the patient (or his team) is in denial that there is a problem in the first place.
also, doctors encourage patients to seek second opinions. unless the doctor is an actual egotistical jerk, he or she is going to be aware of his own biases, or the simple fact that sometimes you don’t spot everything. think of it like sample sizes; the more highly trained doctors that have seen the data and made the same conclusion, the better off the patient is.
sorry for the rant. i have a couple family members in medicine and it gets annoying to hear so much blame placed on the medical professionals in these situations. they simply don’t have the kind of interests that the players and organization do. now don’t even get me started on malpractice insurance and tort law…
by mattybobo on
Oct 14, 2008 12:29 PM EDT
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I was not criticizning Dr. Paletta. My question concerned the level of reliability attendant with management's medical reports.
How often have there been optimistic predictions of a player’s imminent return only to be followed by delayed appearance with dismal results? Those results are then attributed to worse-than-expected medical conditions. There does seem to be a pattern. . . .
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on
Oct 15, 2008 12:06 AM EDT
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oh. than i actaully agree with you. heh.
obviously there’s something fishy with the cardinals medical stuff. i just don’t get the complaints from many fans about paletta in particular. it’s a lot easier to be an armchair GM or manager than an armchair respected orthopedic surgeon.
by mattybobo on
Oct 15, 2008 10:56 AM EDT
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not to disagree
but I find it hard to blame Jocketty for constructing the first sustained winner since I was 5 years old, in addition to the only Championship I can clearly remember and appreciate.
The injuries are a part of every team. So are the bad trades. Carp gave us a 2 Cy caliber seasons. Rolen was the best 3rd baseman Ive ever seen – personally. Mulder pitched one of the greatest and most memorable games Ive ever witnessed – 10 SO agaisnt Houston and Clemens. All may have had inherent injury risks, but they all had memorable moments – ultimately in 2004 and 2006.
by rlgosnell on
Oct 17, 2008 1:38 AM EDT
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I agree on Carp and Rolen
as they were no brainers, but I do think WJ or someone in the front office/scouting should have seen that Mulder was not right. Guys who are leading candidates for pitcher of the decade don’t just suddenly lose their mechanics for no reason. It was well known that Mulder’s delivery had changed and his results had slipped.
Not saying they should have known for sure, but you can’t compare Mulder to the other two. Rolen’s shoulder injuries were pretty much freak occurrences, especially the first one. Carp was a reclamation project that worked out.
I absolutely agree with Red’s main point that Dr. Paletta takes way too much grief around here from people who have absolutely no clue about medicine or about the details of the various situations.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Oct 17, 2008 10:54 AM EDT
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Olney's latest on Peavy
I know its speculation, but its speculation from my favorite baseball blogger about my favorite baseball team…Thought I’d share…
The San Diego Padres have begun the process of sorting through initial trade conversations about All-Star right-hander Jake Peavy, and to date, their talks seem to have been with National League teams; Peavy has a no-trade clause and prefers to play in the NL.
One team — perhaps St. Louis — is discussing the possibility of expanding the package beyond Peavy to include shortstop Khalil Greene, who is under contract for 2009 for $6.5 million. It would make sense for the Padres to move Greene, who is coming off a disappointing season in which he hit .213 with 10 homers and 35 RBIs, a year after he hit 27 homers and drove in 97 runs. Greene, who turns 29 next week, is eligible for free agency after next season, and in moving Greene in a Peavy package, the Padres would create even more payroll flexibility as they look to acquire more consistency in their offense.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster
Well, I must say, I’m intrigued. I’m not sure what or how many prospects would be involved, but I’m assuming a Dan Haren-type haul would start. That would mean a can’t miss young player and then some. Could we avoid putting Rasmus in? I doubt it. Would they want Freese back? I doubt it. My best guess; Rasmus, Boggs, Garcia, Barden, and two Low-A or High-A guys. I could see San Diego wanting Anderson in there instead of one of the pitchers or Barden, but that’s just my thoughts.
by timmycardinals on Oct 14, 2008 10:02 AM EDT 0 recs
Garcia
Is out for a year, so I doubt he would be included. Barden is older than most prospects and probably not worth all that much.
They will want a shortstop prospect back, however, so I’d assume Vasquez or Kozma would be included. Rasmus is there of course. We know most teams are interested in Motte and we know the Padres had issues at the back end of their bullpen last year, so consider him a part of the talks. Anderson could fit as well.
I’d guess the Padres would ask for something like this to start:
Rasmus,
Todd or Boggs,
Kozma or Vasquez,
Motte, Perez or McClellan,
Barton, Mather or Jay / or Anderson instead of an OF.
Too much? Definitely. But you aren’t going to get Peavy and Greene without overpaying.
by adiueordie on
Oct 14, 2008 10:19 AM EDT
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True
Good point on Garcia—coffee must not have kicked in yet. I see the Padres looking for a mix of MLB ready (for a rebuilding period of course) so a Rasmus with #3/4 starter and some prospects capable of #2 stuff would be their targets. Their OF is not too deep, so I do think we’d be able to get them what they need there. As far as Barden goes though, I will disagree. He did play well for the Olympic team and going off of San Diego’s good fortune with Mr. Gonzalez (not Adrian) they may not be too disinterested. Plus he’s as young as Greene if I’m not mistaken, and could easily produce what Greene did this year at a VERY CHEAP price. If we gave them Rasmus and one or two very good pitchers, we could fill this thing in with Barden/Barton types, IMO
by timmycardinals on
Oct 14, 2008 10:27 AM EDT
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need a
center fielder, don’ t they skip?
"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension
by sportsman on
Oct 15, 2008 9:27 PM EDT
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can't trade Vazquez
the year isn’t up
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Oct 14, 2008 8:37 PM EDT
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Todd Motte
These guys seem like top of the rotation starters, I’d trade any combo they wanted outside of anything involving one of them. Khalil Greene getting thrown in should not up the anty at all and in fact could lower the price as a salary dumping move. think of what we would give up for greene alone, maybe a low A type ball player. This could definitely happen.
by Yadi on
Oct 14, 2008 9:41 PM EDT
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Motte is a reliever and I would take a polished cy young starter over one who hasn't pitched
higher than AAA yet.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on
Oct 16, 2008 12:23 PM EDT
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Hmmm....
I think that the inclusion of Greene heightens the chances of us keeping Rasmus, because we’re already going to be giving up a good middle infield prospect in the deal. I’m not sure I want a SS that’s coming off of a hand injury and a historically putrid year that’s going to make $6.5M next season though. I’m sure that Colby is at the head of the talks, and I would hope that trading him allows us to keep a lot of other pieces still in the minors. This would be as far as I would go to get Peavy and Greene:
Rasmus, Motte, Kozma/Vazquez, Boggs
or
Anderson, Kozma/Vasquez, Boggs, Jay, Schumaker
I think anything more than that and we’re giving up to much to get those two players.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Oct 14, 2008 11:38 AM EDT
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Addendum
I think if the trade is going to involve Greene we need some assurances that he’s going to stay around longer than next season. I’d like to get him signed to a 3 year extension for around $6M per year starting in 2010 since he’s coming off such a crap year. That would get him signed through 2012, which is when a lot of our contracts on the current team start to expire anyway.
Also, picking up Peavy’s option year as part of the trade is a complete dealbreaker — I don’t want an uninsureable $22M albatross sitting on the payroll 5 years down the road when he’s 32 years old.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Oct 14, 2008 11:42 AM EDT
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i think you will
have to give him the option. he’s going to want some compensation for waiving his no trade clause.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
by FutureMan on
Oct 14, 2008 1:35 PM EDT
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I don't think so.
Rasmus would be the key since his range fits Petco perfectly. The MLB TradeRumors guys kicked this around and the consensus was TWO top prospects would be required to move Peavy. That means Rasmus plus Todd, probably either Motte or Perez and two to three more toss-ins (Jay, Schumaker, Boggs, etc.).
It’s a hell of a lot to give up. I just don’t like the idea of no backup plan if Ankiel walks at the end of 2009. They need leverage against Boras.
by Red in Chicago on
Oct 14, 2008 12:12 PM EDT
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As I said -- I'm not comfortable giving up more than those packages
But I also think that taking Greene off of their hands is actually a point in our column, not theirs, even though he’s been an above average player in the past. If they’re rebuilding, why wouldn’t they want to rid themselves of a guy who’s going to make $6.5 million next season and then walk if they can get a good SS prospect like Vasquez or Kozma in return? That makes total sense to me, and Greene’s value is pretty much nil at this point because of his horrible season this year.
Obviously they want to turn Peavy into top prospects too, but I would first offer them a couple of our other top prospects, like Boggs, Anderson, and Todd, before I simply put Rasmus on the ledger and filled in around him.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Oct 14, 2008 12:27 PM EDT
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For whatever reason
people seem to think the Braves and the Brewers both have the prospects and interest to get it done. The Reds probably have the prospects, but not the budget or the need. The Mets are out. I don’t know about the Phillies’ farm system. But that’s pretty much the list, unless you count the Yankees and Red Sox, which I don’t. I think the agent added them to get the price up.
Anyway, my point is that both the Brewers and Braves have a couple of high-grade prospects and ML-ready starters they can part with. So I don’t know if you can do something like this without Rasmus. Jones, maybe? Actually, Rasmus has a high OBP, so he’s really the perfect piece for them.
by Red in Chicago on
Oct 14, 2008 12:36 PM EDT
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I don't see it
I don’t think the Braves or the Brewers have the prospects to get it done, unless the Brewers are parting with Gallardo and Villenueva and the Braves are parting with Escobar and Jurrjens, at which point getting Peavy doesn’t really help their ballclub.
Had Atlanta been able to pry Nick Adenhart from the Angels in the Texiera deal we might have a different story, but the Brewers gave up 2 of their best three prospects to get a half season of Sabathia.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Oct 14, 2008 1:02 PM EDT
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It really just doesn't make sense for either of them.
It’s doubtful that the trade would put them into contention because it would cost so many of the prospects that they are betting on to succeed to get them into contention. Also, it’s going to cost a lot of money, and Milwaukee does not have the cash. The Braves have the money, but it would basically look like the Mariners-Orioles Bedard trade, with one team cleaning out all of their ML-ready talent to win, without the requisite talent left over to win.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on
Oct 14, 2008 1:10 PM EDT
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I'd rather send Perez.....
Than Motte.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on
Oct 14, 2008 12:14 PM EDT
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Be pretty cool to get Hoffman too.....
Let him close for a year, then retire. He prolly wants to stay in SD though.
"Stats are for losers," Muschamp said after last week's victory. "I like winning games."
by SoonerfanTU on
Oct 14, 2008 12:16 PM EDT
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Hoffman is a free agent
I’d rather bring back Springer than approach Hoffman anyway.
2008:
Hoffman – 45.1 IP, 3.77 ERA, 1.037 WHIP, 104 ERA+, 46:9 K:BB
Springer – 50.1 IP, 2.32 ERA, 1.132 WHIP, 183 ERA+, 45:18 K:BB
Springer would cost much less.
Also, Hoffman wants to return to San Diego
by adiueordie on
Oct 14, 2008 4:09 PM EDT
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+1 and I'll pass on Hoffman....Don't need to see another former all star closer degrade over a season.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on
Oct 16, 2008 12:25 PM EDT
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there is no way and I mean nooooo way
We get Greene and Peavy for the second package.
by rlgosnell on
Oct 17, 2008 1:44 AM EDT
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Disaster
isn’t a strong enough word to illustrate how bad this deal would be. It would be one thing to send our top prospect, plus a couple more good ones for 3 years of Jake Peavy. I don’t like it, but it’s defensible. To expand the package, and send another prospect or two, or improve the quality of the prospects we’re sending to receive 1 year of Khalil Greene is positively indefensible. It should be cause for Mo’s termination.
by chuckb on
Oct 14, 2008 8:21 PM EDT
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just so we're clear
Izturis was a full win better than Greene this year and he’d have exactly 1 year to improve before we lost him and had to go back to the bargain bin to replace him. Our window to win would be shortened to about 1 year and San Diego would be on its way back to the top.
by chuckb on
Oct 14, 2008 8:24 PM EDT
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Could not agree more
I would not be a fan of Rasmus straight up for Peavy. Too much risk, as a lot of us have said before. I think that if Greene was included in that trade, the Cards should do nothing more than take on the contract. No more top prospects. He isn’t worth it, especially not for just one year of him.
So Rasmus, Todd/Boggs,Perez/Motte/KMac, + more prospects? I think I would puke, I would hope Luhnow would do the same.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Oct 14, 2008 8:42 PM EDT
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Greene makes the trade worse
rather than better. He was the worst offensive SS in the majors last year. His OBP has been less than .300 in 3 of the last 4 years. For his career, he has 3 times as many Ks as BBs and last year the ratio was almost 5 Ks to every 1 BB. His defense registered a 2 on John Dewan’s +/- system last year. His offense, to say it again, was worse than our worst offensive player’s — Cesar Izturis. Izturis was a substantially better SS last year than Khalil Greene. And this trade would put us in the position of needing a new SS in 1 year and leave us w/ fewer prospects to trade for a SS. I can’t believe this trade is seriously being considered by Cards’ brass.
by chuckb on
Oct 14, 2008 8:52 PM EDT
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correction
Greene was a -2 on John Dewan’s scale, not +2. 2 plays below average.
by chuckb on
Oct 14, 2008 8:53 PM EDT
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I knew he was bad
I didn’t realize he was THAT bad. I still stand by my comment, just scratch the “especiallu not for just one year of him” part
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Oct 14, 2008 8:57 PM EDT
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and I have figured it out
People for some reason like Greene. It has to be because of the hair, right?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Oct 14, 2008 8:59 PM EDT
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he's NOT that bad.
Over the past 3 years, he’s a net +20. Before this year, his defense was consider good bordering on great, and he had no help whatsoever at 3B this year. Put him next to glaus, so he doesn’t have to line up so deep in the hole, and his fielding will be fine.
He also had a .260 BABIP with a 20% LD rate. Get him out of petco and his career lines are .270/.320/.480ish, with a .300ish BABIP, even after an awfully unlucky 2008 both home and away.
He’d be a hell of a pickup even if we can’t get Peavy.
the enemy's gate is down.
by SleepyCA on
Oct 14, 2008 11:15 PM EDT
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expanding on the defense bit
all of his (-) is on “going to his left”. Over the last 3 years he’s a net +44 going to his right, and a +9 “straight on” while being -34 to his left. That is quite consistent with lining up in the wrong place (too close to 3B) because your 3B is slower than a pile of bricks.
the enemy's gate is down.
by SleepyCA on
Oct 14, 2008 11:29 PM EDT
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defensively
he’s +16 over three years. Offensively, he hasn’t walked more than 39 times since 2004. Over the last 4 years, his average walk rate is 6.1% and over that time, his BABIPs have been .287, .277, . 281, and .262. It’s a bit of a stretch to suggest that he’s been unlucky b/c of his ballpark. Over his career, his HR/FB ratio is 9.6% — about an average rate. Again, it’s difficult to substantiate the idea that he’s simply a product of Petco. Over those 4 years, his highest OBP is .320 and in those other 3 years, it’s lower than .300.
The only redeeming quality of his offense over the last 4 years was the 27 HR he hit in 2007. That’s the only thing that has made him palatable as an offensive player over the last 4 years. In every other respect, he has been a bad offensive player, and it’s not simply a by-product of his ballpark. Add to that the fact that, in the last 4 years, he’s only played more than 122 games in a season once, and there’s not much to like. Of course, w/ as bad a hitter as he is, it may have actually benefited the Padres that he missed 40+ games per year in 3 of those years.
by chuckb on
Oct 14, 2008 11:30 PM EDT
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career babip at petco is .260
career babip away is .298. That’s over 1300 PA’s each. This half-season he had a positively 2006-molina kind of unlucky .240 BABIP at home, and he’s only ever had less than a 30 point home-away BABIP spit one time, in 2005.
He’s remarked a number of times about how much he hates hitting at petco, so it could very well be psychological, but even with the extreme babip and even more extreme slugging split, he’s been a .750ish OPS player overall before this year. I think he’d be an .800ish OPS SS for us with 20-25 HRs.
Worst case, he hits like Cesar izturis did this year, for one year, and we let him go. Best case, we solve our SS problem for 4-5 years. It seems like a chance you have to take, esp if it makes peavy cheaper in terms of prospects since we’d be giving them significant salary relief.
the enemy's gate is down.
by SleepyCA on
Oct 14, 2008 11:50 PM EDT
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Worst case is...
he hits like Cesar Izturis with worse defense for only 75 games. We end up playing a combination of Miles/Kennedy/Lopez on the middle infield again, or we make another trade for another SS giving up even more prospects…or we call up Brendan Ryan who also plays worse defense than Izturis and hits just the same.
It could be MUCH worse than you’re suggesting.
by stlfan on
Oct 15, 2008 8:00 AM EDT
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worst case, i guess
is that he gets mad at albert pujols in spring training and stabs him with a plastic fork.
Sure, he might only be good for 75 games, and he might totally flop, but if the alternative is giving furcal 4/$50M, I think I’d rather take the chance. At least Greene has upside.
the enemy's gate is down.
by SleepyCA on
Oct 15, 2008 2:56 PM EDT
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one wonders why he would hate it so much.
His BB have decreased while his K’s have increased each year. Maybe he’s trying to yank every pitch to reach the 30 HR mark. You would think with his power – good but not elite – that he could hit a ton of doubles and still hit 15-20 HR’s. My biggest concern with him would not be the defense but the dismal OBP. We already have a lot of hit or miss guys in our lineup. His 08 season is hard to get a handle on partly bc it was just so dismal but also bc his home/road splits were so out of wack with his prior seasons. Maybe he just got fed up with things or he was injured the entire year.
by rlgosnell on
Oct 17, 2008 1:59 AM EDT
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Road splits
There is a .144 difference between his home/road splits over his career. .170 difference in 07’, .255 difference in 06’. Now 08’ was positively dreadful by any measure, but as a whole I can see why people would think he’d do better..
Greene isn’t high up on my list of guys to pursue, because I’d like to make SS the top priority. I can appreciate why he’d have appeal to others though, if they assume that he could be had for little in return.
If the Cards truly went this route, I’d hope they’d do something fairly significant for 2B – and Lopez is not significant. Lopez and Greene together is essentially hoping for 2 bounceback seasons.
by Merry CRasmus on
Oct 14, 2008 11:54 PM EDT
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If the front office gets Greene
I would expect that to be the major ‘upgrade’ for the MIF and 2B would be a throw a bunch of crap at the wall and see what sticks type of situation – much like the recent history of the position. Lopez might be the best we could expect.
by rlgosnell on
Oct 17, 2008 2:01 AM EDT
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Yeah
I am pretty sure we will have Miles/Lopez and maybe even Kenneday at 2B next year no matter what else happens. I say a little prayer everyday that some other team comes in and sweeps Lopez of his feet. I think that is the only way we don’t make the mistake of signing him.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Oct 17, 2008 10:57 AM EDT
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really?
Rasmus straight up for Peavy. I think I make that trade. True, the money is a factor here but pitchers like Peavy don’t grow on trees. Rasmus is good but still not proven (at least on the major league level). I think I take the proven in this case. Our rotation would be nasty next year with Peavy.
by eglasier on
Oct 16, 2008 10:26 AM EDT
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really!
In an ideal world, I would trade Rasmus straight up for Peavy. Unfortunately, we do not have the financial freedoms of the Yankees or the Red Sox. I think Peavy is owed 78M on his contract. With the money Lohse and Carp are making, you sure the hell better be certain that Peavy pitches up to the value of his contract through 2013. I just think that having an everyday player that is a hell of a lot cheaper is the wiser use of your resources. For a young , good, cheap pitcher? Yeah, I would think about making that trade.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Oct 16, 2008 7:52 PM EDT
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If Rasmus turns out to be Grady Sizemore
we could be really pissed off in 3 years. Peavy has pitched 200 IP 4 of the last 6 years. I would kill to have him but Im expecting the world from Rasmus and I want to see him deliver in a Redbird uni. That may be a pie in the sky sort of dream, but there’s something to be said about the anticipation of young studs marching through the farm and then becoming stars in the majors. Of course there’s also something to be said for getting a Rolen or Edmonds and winning a championship. All in all I would deal anyone not named Wallace or Rasmus for Peavy.
by rlgosnell on
Oct 17, 2008 2:06 AM EDT
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I take it by "anyone" you mean only prospects
I know this has no real predictive value and will probably get me a nasty letter from SABR, but I thought it would be interesting to see what sort of production teams got from other “name” prospects who were actually given opportunities this year. The three that come to mind are Longoria, Jones, and Bruce.
So, I took their slash lines, plus HR and RBI, and averaged them to get a rough guesstimate of what we might expect from a more or less full season of Colby.
The numbers are .265/.323/.461/.784 with 19 HR and 61 RBIs. The OPS is nineteen points higher than Skip Schumaker even with 2 of th


