Spring Surprises

by the red baron on Jan 9, 2008 9:35 AM EST in News Comment 76 comments

The Cardinals have resigned Aaron Miles. I am not particularly pleased by this development. Thus, following my mother's advice as to what to do when nothing nice to say presents itself, I will consider something else entirely.

Yesterday, the projection season officially kicked off around here with the community projection for Matt Clement. If you haven't done so yet, scroll on down the page and get your projection in. For me, projection season is a time of great joy and expectation. Not only is it great for generating conversation and contemplation, it also indicates the beginning of the real countdown toward the season.

Every year, there seems to be at least one player in Spring Training who just absolutely jumps up, seemingly out of nowhere, and makes a huge impression. Probably the most well known example in recent years is Albert in 2001. He had a huge spring, Bobby Bonilla got hurt the last week of Training Camp, and the rest is history.

Two seasons ago, in Spring Training of 2006, it was Bryan Anderson. The Cards needed an extra catcher, they brought him in, the year after he was drafted, and he hit well over .300 and generated a huge buzz. Last year, it was Dennis Dove and his 96 mph sinker.

So, in the spirit of projection season beginning, as well as the unseasonably springlike weather of this past weekend, let's all throw out our guesses on this year's spring surprise. It doesn't necessarily have to be a guy who makes the major league team out of the spring; I just want to know what single player you think we'll all be talking about at the end of Spring Training. These also don't have to be guys completely off the radar screen, just players who aren't expected to make much of an impact on the team this season. Actually, not the single player. Let's try for two players. One pitcher, one position player. We may not know his name now, but we'll sure as hell know it come the end of March.

Alright, here's mine. First, as far the pitcher goes, I'm going to say that I think Jason Motte is going to be the guy. He's obviously on the radar, as he was added to the 40 man roster over the winter, but he's seen as being a little ways off still. He's got huge velocity, (his fastball sits in the 97-99 mph range) very good control, but very limited secondary stuff. He throws a slider that still needs work, and a little bit of a splitter. Everyone's talking about Chris Perez as possibly being in the bullpen this year, but I think Motte's going to be the guy. Perez will start in AAA, I think, to try and work some more on his command, and I think Motte may sneak his way in with a big time performance. He's probably not ready to stick for the whole year, but I see him doing much what Dove did last spring: just absolutely wowing everybody with the quality of his stuff. His command is significantly better than Dove's was at the same point in time last year, and I think he could break camp with the team.

My position player is a little tougher. I considered a bunch of players, and no one really just absolutely jumped out at me. I finally settled on Travis Mitchell. Now, Mitchell has absolutely no chance of making the big club in the spring. He's only about twenty years old, and he hasn't played above short season ball yet. He was a late round pick out of high school in 2006, from Chesterfield, I believe. The kid's still extremely raw, but he's just a bundle of tools. I think he's going to have a big spring and jump over low class A up to Palm Beach, and I think we're going to hear a lot about him from the back field reports. I just have a good feeling about the kid. He's speedy, his plate discipline improved quite a bit this past season, and his overall athleticism is just off the charts. It's a long shot, but that's part of why they call it a surprise.

Okay. Those are mine, now let's have everyone else's. Let's all pretend baseball is nearly here, instead of being a dim rumour still months off, referred to only in ex senator's reports and trade speculations. Have at it.

By the way, you should check out the rotoworld sidebar. There's a blurb about Yadier and Mr. Anderson. What is written there also makes me pretty angry, but I'm focusing on positive, cheerful things this morning. Focusing very, very hard.

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WOW

I'm glad to see you picked Travis Mitchell out of Parkway Central in Chesterfield. That is awesome!

Anyway, my pick is Brian Barden. I think he is going to come in and wow this year and earn the centerfield job out of spring training. I just have the feeling about him (for some unknown reason...I'd never even heard of him before we signed him). As far as pitchers go, I REALLY hope it is A. Reyes, for his sake, but I do not see that happening. I will go with Mark Worrell putting it all together this year. At 24 years old in AAA last year, he put up a WHIP of 1.24, with decent peripherals (in 67 innings pitched he had 8.87 K/9 and only 3.36 BB/9, plus a .8 HR/9.) I think that he can put up a decent line in the bigs this year.

There we go.

stlfan

by stlfan on Jan 9, 2008 10:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

wow indeed.

It took me a while to type mine, but I promise I didn't just copy your Worrell pick. Indepent selection. It feels good to have strength in numbers on that pick.

by tingler on Jan 9, 2008 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Another pick

I know no one is saying that I have to make another pick here, but Barton (yes, Barton, not Barden) is probably not so "under the radar." My "under the radar" pick would have to be Allen Craig beating out previously mentioned Brian Barden, Travis Hansen, and/or Juan Richardson for either the starting AA spot at 3b, or being a backup/starter at the AAA level at the age of 23. I would love to see him start at AAA, but AA is probably the best option for him at this point. We just traded for the 3rd bagger from San Diego and we already had some warm bodies to keep at AAA that could fill in (in a pinch) at the major league level since the big club probably will not compete for the playoffs next year.

Craig's #s last year - A+ ball then AA ball...only 7 games at AA

ab 423,24
avg .312,.292
obp .370,.320
slg .530,.750
ops .900,1.070
hr 21,3
k 79,6
bb 35 (4 IBB),1(0)
xbh 48,5

He also improved his fielding from a .906 fielding % to a .925 in one year at 3B, plus his range factor from 2.20 to 2.30 in one year.

stlfan

by stlfan on Jan 9, 2008 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Allen Craig

would be my pick too.

by cardsgirl95 on Jan 9, 2008 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Barton...

I assume is who you mean. Barden is the 3B we acquired last summer. OTOH I do like Barden as a possible surprise.

I too would like to see AR impress in the Spring, but I don't know that he (or Brian Barton for that matter) qualify as players not expected to contribute at the big league level this year. That being said...I like both picks.

by cardzfanbub on Jan 9, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, Barton

D'oh! No caffeine in me yet. Sorry. Just got my Coke...we're good to go now.

stlfan

by stlfan on Jan 9, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't know if he counts, but...

For my pitcher, how about Mark Worrell?

In my mind he's the pitching analog of brendan ryan or jarret hoffpauir... a prospect with a modest celing that moves along slowly and predictably, avoiding all the attention that accompanies a quick rise to fame. But he has advanced. Last year in Memphis he got a solid 3.09 ERA by doing all the right things. High strikeout rate (8.87/9 IP) accompanied with solidly average control (3.36BB/9IP). A low hit rate (7.79 H/9IP) and expert homerum prevention (0.81/9IP).

I know he's not that much of an off-the-radar guy, but with all the attention given to fast-rising, high-celinged Chris Perez, I think people have taken their eyes off the slow-n-steady Worrell.

I think a solid spring realistically gets him a spot in the big league bullpen and completes his borringly consistanat 4-year rise through the system.

by tingler on Jan 9, 2008 10:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

i like the motte pick

but of course i'm going with (who else?) my man mike parisi. like motte, he got added to the 40-man in november. i think he'll get a long look this spring, and although there's almost no chance he'll make the rotation i'd give him a 10-to-1 chance to make the team as a relief pitcher ---- or, more likely, to be the first guy called up from memphis.

for position players, i'll go w/ cody haerther. also added to the 40-man and likely to get some playing time. when he's healthy he can flat-out hit, and he's gonna come in to camp focused --- his window is rapidly closing.

by lboros on Jan 9, 2008 11:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

parisi/haerther

i like the haerther pick a lot. solid average with good on base skills on top. plus, like you said, the gall-ish pressure. seems to have speizio-calibur off-the-bench pop. i don't know what his deffensive skillset is, but i think the biggest stike against him is the sudden glut of left-handed power-minded outfielders in st. louis even after the edmonds trade. that being said i'd still probably prefer the 23-year-old haerther break with the team than the 20-year-old rasmus.

by tingler on Jan 9, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh... and parisi

sorry, i'm kinda new to the forum (totally amazing, by the way), so i'm not farmiliar with your affinity for mike parisi. i'm not trying to be confrontational, but when i look at his minor league lines he just look like minor league roster fodder, promoted annually out of habbit but lacking a statistical strongsuit (whether it be power, control, or otherwise). is there something i'm missing? i know nothing of his actual abilities, only his stat line. does he have some great, unharnessed stuff? i suppose if he already possesses or can quickly learn a 2-seamer duncan can peel a point off of his era, but as it stands statistically he seems like an underpowered, very hittable guy.

like i said, i'm really not tryin' to break balls, i'm just curious if anyone has more information on this guy. the more guys i'm excited about watching the more exciting spring training is... i just want to know why i should be excited about parisi.

much respect.

thanks.

by tingler on Jan 9, 2008 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no offense taken

i have very modest hopes for parisi --- at best a 5th starter, middle reliever, role player. i envision him as brad thompson with a second weapon --- he not only throws a 92-mph sinker but also has an above-average curveball. the pitches aren't good enough that he can afford to miss his spots, but if he improves his command just a tad he might be a cheap contributor for a few years, as thompson has been.

you're correct that his numbers aren't very promising, but he has made adjustments at every level --- starts slowly, then improves as he figures out the league / hitters / park. he's said to be very coachable, so might benefit from duncan's input, and has the sort of survivor / grinder mentality that big-league role-player types tend to have.

i'd rather see the cards give a guy like him a chance than a retread like (for example) josh fogg.

by lboros on Jan 9, 2008 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks.

put that way i absolutely agree. it always seemed to me that a relative weakness of the jocketty regime that might have carried over to the current front office was/is the ability do drop $1MM hear, $3MM there and end up with a 10-15 million dollar albatross of a contract spread over 5 replacement level roleplayers.

that's why the relatively inexpensive aaron miles, ricardo rincon type signings might bother me the most. if the cards have the ability to get a similar level of production/ a warm body from a farm hand and save $1MM here and there they should. it can (and does) add up. At a glance Mo's dropped about $10-13MM dollars this season on mediocrity and below. Thank god its not Josh Fogg (perfect example/ fingers crossed) but it is Joel Piñero, Aaron Miles, Adam Kennedy, Cesar Izturis, etc., etc., etc.

very good point, lboros.

by tingler on Jan 9, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well described

the best example of what you're describing --- where it all went wrong, in my opinion --- was the 2005-06 off-season. the cards actually had some money to spend, and there was some actual talent available on the f.a. market --- a.j. burnett being the main example. he was a rarity on the f.a. market, a real difference-maker, but the cards refused to pay a.j. $50m over 5 years (which now only buys you kyle lohse). however, they ended up spending almost as much that winter on a bunch of mediocrities ---- looper ($15m), encarnacion ($16.5m), ricardo rincon ($3m), sidney ponson ($1m), larry bigbie ($1m), gary bennett ($1m), junior spivey ($1m), so taguchi ($1m), deivi cruz ($1m). even if he only starts 22 games in a season, burnett's worth more wins over replacement than the other 9 guys combined. the cards would have been better off with burnett and 8 mike parisis.

by lboros on Jan 9, 2008 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

testify.

i completely agree. the '05 offseason is when this problematic m.o. first and most violently reared its uggly head. rather than sign (difference makers, impact players, whathaveyou) and rely on perfectly capable minor league spare parts fill in the blanks the new cardinal directive has signed a laundry list of hedged bets. the front office needs quickly to recognize that accompanying a dilluted risk is a dilluted reward. since that offseason both the cardinals' payroll and roster space has been gummed up with an indistinguishable mix of mildly underperforming veterans (kennedy, wells), mildly excelling retreads (miles, looper), and players that performed exactly as blandly as anyone should have reasonably expected (encarnacion, piñero). the result: a team predictably uninspiring string of seasons (obviously excepting the worldseries run).

the reason why '05, in my mind, is so important is because the coming ('08-'09) offseason seems primed to present management with similar challenges. there will be a lot of contracts coming off the books, a lot of money to spend (perhaps $35-40MM assuming a comparable payroll), a lot of roster openings, and potentially a few difference makers in the free agent class. will the cardinals right the ship, or drop another anchor on 81 wins? to me, the offseason following the eventuallity of the cardinals seemingly hopeless rebuild-compete hybrid season is make-or-break for the 5-10 year future of the franchise.

sorry if i got too pessemistic. its not that i anticipate or at all hope for bad things. its just i don't want to repeat past mistkaes at a point that i think could likely determine the future trajectory of the franchise. thanks again for indulging me with all the great writing, perspective, and insight.

by tingler on Jan 9, 2008 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not sold on motte--perez is real deal

seen him for two years after conversion to the mound. need more than heat to survive AA..actually surprised he has been this successful with just heat...but he is learning offspeed...made 40 man or be free agent..still too high of top side if he continues to grow to let others jump on him but needs some coaching. perez, on the other hand, is the real deal and they have a lot invested in him. a bit wild at times, but has the stuff.

by 2005cardfan on Jan 12, 2008 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

really neat idea here

Thanks for doing it.

For my picks I'm going with two guys who weren't even in the system last year.

Pitcher--Dewon Brazleton (we do have him right??). I'm not saying he will be effective in actual games that count in the majors--but I think he will "look" good in spring training (much like Kip did) and we will like his talent--like most scouts have.

Position Player--David Freese. For some reason I feel he will be a nice player. Maybe it's wishful thinking or what not, but I see him hitting the crap out of the ball in the spring. He has to move quickly and he knows it. I just like him as a player for one reason or another.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Jan 9, 2008 11:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yes, Brazleton is on the team.

by airhad on Jan 9, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm calling it now

If Daewon Brazleton makes the team...

he gets the nickname

"Dae-won-and-only"

right?

by tingler on Jan 9, 2008 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll go with

M. Boggs and A. Craig

by awpierce on Jan 9, 2008 12:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'll go with Boggs and Craig too.

and also, I would not be surprised to see Chris Narveson win a spot with the Brewers. I hated to see the Cards give up on Him.

by ridgesee on Jan 9, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Da Buzzzzz

Pitchers: I think Zuecherer starts to get buzz as a possible lefty specialist. I think McClellen will also get a lot of buzz.

Hitters: Hamilton, Marti and Hill. I think Mitchell could do well but he is too far down the ladder to really create buzz this year.

by cariocacardinal on Jan 9, 2008 12:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Spring Training surprises - I choose

Offense - whoever gets the mop-up ABs at first when Albert rests.....where have you gone Tagg Bozied?

Pitching - Kyle McClellan

by Hinkster on Jan 9, 2008 12:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Tagg went to FLA :(

I'd say last year's "out of nowhere spring training" belonged to Skip Schumaker. He basically played J-Rod out of the LH-backup OF spot on the MLB roster with his .388/.455/.551 spring. IIRC he did the same thing in '06, so it'll be interesting to see his '08.

Anyway I'll jump on the Allen Craig bandwagon- it should be exciting to see him and Freese battle it out for the coveted Memphis 3B/Scott Rolen Backup position. And Motte, though our bullpen is packed at the moment unless someone gets hurt.

the bums will always lose...

by SleepyCA on Jan 9, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pitcher

Deryk Hooker. 7th rounder last year, Put up some video game numbers in rookie ball.

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Jan 9, 2008 12:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

My Picks

I think the position player will be Amaury Marti, and the Pitcher will be Mccormack

by stlzoot on Jan 9, 2008 12:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't mind

being proven wrong in the slightest, but with that said, I don't believe Marti will ever be able to hit ML pitching.

by ridgesee on Jan 9, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

McGwire

Off topic, sorry... but article about McGwire and his Hall chances...

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/09/mark-mcgwire-comes-up-way-shortagain/

by ET90210 on Jan 9, 2008 1:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You really like that website, don't you?

I'm going to cheat and pick two of each.

Position Players: Tyler Greene and Ryde Rodriguez.

Pitchers: Brad Furnish and Andres Rosales.

Greene and Furnish will get some talk because of how surprisingly close to making it they are all the sudden. Greene's got to pan out eventually, right? Rodriguez and Rosales will get talk because they'll look good enough that there'll be speculation of just how high in the organization they're best assigned for 2008.

by liam on Jan 9, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Brag, Brag, Brag

By the way... I'll be going to Spring Training for the first time this year, just for a few days. Looking forward to seeing these youngsters play in person.

by liam on Jan 9, 2008 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ross t

hitter: ozzie canseco

pitcher: rene arocha

by ross t on Jan 9, 2008 1:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

....uhhh

....uuhhhhhhhh.....eh.....

If we can't be good, can we at least be lucky?

by cardschinmusic on Jan 10, 2008 4:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

....well .........

Sorta in that same vein, I pick Mulder and and Kennedy! ;)!

Garcia (if healthy) and Motte

and

Mather, he needs some love! And in the name of justice and support of principle, so do Ryan and Hoffpauir!

If we can't be good, can we at least be lucky?

by cardschinmusic on Jan 10, 2008 5:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My picks

I think John Jay rebounds from 2007 and recovers the form that made him a 2nd rd pick. Pitchers - I'm going with McCormick.

"Dude, we're running out of stadium" - said on the way to our seats in Section 428.

by bukowski on Jan 9, 2008 1:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

How about...

For my hitter... Nick Stavinoha. Basically for reasons identical to lboros's Haerther nomination. He has a similar toolkit with a minor league career average near .300, decent onbase skills, and an optomistic promise of 15-20HR power. This, of course, comes complete with the same injury asteric as Haerther, and the same pressure of being a 25-year old minor leaguer outfielder yet to get a taste of the bigs.

by tingler on Jan 9, 2008 1:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Miles ...

With no intended offense to you or any other VEB poster - I know that many here rail against having Miles on the team, but I have to suspect that it is mostly group think - you know, where guys talk among themselves, come to a common conclusion and accept it as gospel.

Miles is actually good at what he does - as long as you don't look at him as a starter. As a utility backup player he plays acceptable (not exceptional) defense and can put near league average numbers for the middle infield position. In short, he fits what Tony needs in terms of flexibility on the bench.

The only real knock, is that now with him earning over $1 mil, he's getting expensive. But we should be looking to maximize our team on the field and worrying less about the money we spend. If I thought the Cards management would take those extra dollars they gave him and put them toward selecting a to flight option like Porcello over a Kozma (I doubt that Kozma's career will even match Miles), then I would agree that he should be exiled for the good of the team. But everyone here knows that saving even $10 mil on the team won't bring a willingness to spend on the draft - those are 2 different numbers on separate spreadsheets - it's an attitude problem on the part of management.

On a team that has Izturis as their starting shortstop, having Miles as a stand in isn't so bad. If we had a better stand in, we'd have to start him.

by 2ndEdition on Jan 9, 2008 1:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

nope, sorry

It's not groupthink to come to a consensus that it's a bad idea to pay $1.4M to someone who isn't a better backup middle infielder than someone being paid 400K.

Paying miles to play makes the team worse AND costs more money.

the bums will always lose...

by SleepyCA on Jan 9, 2008 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking for myself...

I don't think (and never have thought) that miles is a bad player. he's just an overpaid known-quantity of mediocrity preventing players with even a glimmer of potential upside, whether it be Brendan Ryan, even D'Angelo Jimenez, Jarett Hoffpauir, or whoever else from cracking the roster.

See lboros' above endorsement of Parisi/the contrast with Josh Fogg. He says it better than I can, but basically I can't find a good reason to pay a million dollar mercenary to do the job that an in-house farmhand could. especially if the farmhand might be better.

by tingler on Jan 9, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Its really about opportunity cost -- paying Miles a million + prevents you from seeing just how much upside a player like Hoffpauir or Ryan really have. Compounding the problem is the realization that Miles isn't any better than the younger, cheaper guys with upside.

by Ray Lankford on Jan 9, 2008 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OK - I can buy into that ...

I did have a problem with the first response which somehow commpared Miles to the mythical $400k replacement player which can put up equal numbers. It works for valuation and statistical comparisons but in the real world we need real comparisons and you offer three - Ryan, Jimenez and Hoffpair.

Ryan should be the ss, but somehow we have Izturis in there. Ryan needs to play regularly, at Memphis if necessary, until the Cards give up on Izturis. Miles is a better bench player than Izturis, as Izturis is one of the worst offense players in all MLB.

Jimenez appears burned out and won't make it out of ST - if he does, I'll be surprised. I don't remember what they're paying him, but he's been in the bigs for a while I doubt he's a $400k guy.

And that leaves Hoffpair, who seems to get a lot more love here than I have. I think he's '09 or '10 at best. I don't expect him to be better than Miles either.

I guess my point is, we should be worrying about finding starters at short & 2nd. Miles is a role player who would look pretty good if we had a keystone combo & didn't have to give him 400 ABs a season. He plays his role well and I don't see him blocking anyone at the moment.

I'll concede I like Ryan better and I think he deserves a shot at starting and unless TLR plans on platooning him w Izturis, I think he's better off in Memphis where he'll be ready to replace Izturis when he fails.

I don't believe he is blocking Hoffpair this year.

by 2ndEdition on Jan 9, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the last two years

Aaron Miles has gotten ~450 PA's per season. That is plenty of playing time for Brendan Ryan, especially since before the Miles signing Ryan had a chance to beat out Iz2 for the starting SS job and now he's probably going to be starting the year in Memphis.

Anyway, the difference between 450 PA's worth of playing time for Ryan and Miles is ~2 wins on offense and ~3 wins on defense. And we paid $1M for that decrease in performance. It's not groupthink to think that this is a terribly stupid decision to make.

the bums will always lose...

by SleepyCA on Jan 9, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Amen, sir

+1. Couldn't have been articulated any better.

Miles "being good at what he does" means nothing when what he does can be easily upgraded by more than 1 in-house solution.

by silent_bob on Jan 9, 2008 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hoffpauir

I'm going to politely disagree on Hoff...the 300/394/416 line in 190 AB's in AAA and 345/420/527 line in 203 AB's in AA are both extremely impressive. I have no doubt he's a better player than Miles in every area of the game:

Hitting for Average (Miles only plus skill) and for power.
Getting on base.
Defense

If you want to say that he needs another couple of months in AAA or that he needs to be a regular instead of playing behind Kennedy...I can agree with that. However, I certainly expect him to be better than Miles.

by cardzfanbub on Jan 9, 2008 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No, he's just bad...

His offense is one dimensional - hitting for average - no power, no speed, no OBP. His defense is below average at 2b, it's terrible elsewhere - he's simply not a utilty guy. Even at minimum salary, I honestly don't see what he adds to the team over any random guy at Memphis (like Ryan).

by DiscoJer on Jan 9, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Players

I'm gonna go with Ludwick as my hitter. I think he will really shine this spring, as he reaches his physical peak. He will come into ST knowing he has a spot on the roster, and I think he will relax and really hit the ball.

Pitcher? Dunno. I guess I will go with Pineiro for the same reasons I went with Luddy. I think being comfortably on the club and in the rotation will benefit him psychologically. I liked him coming up with the M's, and I think he can be a healthy, 4-ish ERA guy for us at a reasonable salary.

I'm a man, a manly, manly, man. Unknown

by Eckstreem on Jan 9, 2008 2:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Spring Surpises

I like the Craig suggestion (fingers crossed he develops very quickly), but to be different I'll Joe Mather's name into the ring. He came out of nowhere to tear up AA last spring, and started coming around after a very slow start at Memphis. If his trajectory continues, he could make the club.

On the mound, I like Motte or McClellan.

by Hungry Jack on Jan 9, 2008 4:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Great Topic

Pitcher - Nick Webber

Hitter - Brian Barton

by Lawless on Jan 9, 2008 4:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

A lot of good choices.

I particularly like Motte and Craig. I'm going to go with Jose Martinez because I think he's going to make it and there's a relative vacuum around second base. If things go badly for the Cardinals this year I could see him reaching the bigs before any of the youngsters except Coby.

by easy on Jan 9, 2008 4:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Jarrett Hoffpauir

Love the season this guy had least year. What are your thoughts on comps for this guy?

How about Kelly Johnson as an optimistic comp? Some ground to go in the power dept, but the strike zone judgment is there.

by oquendo4manager on Jan 9, 2008 5:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Going with Hoffpauir too

He ought to come in all kinds of motivated. He plays one of the more overlooked positions and has 3 marginal signings in front of him, so apparently he's being overlooked by the organization too. He's shown on-base ability at every level. I'd like nothing more than for him to come into this next season like a bat out of hell, and start forcing management's hand on how they're going to handle this middle infield situation right away. On the flip side of that coin, he historically needs a little adjustment time level to level. But somewhere along the way I became personally invested in seeing him make it so, damnit, I'm voting for him anyway.

Piching wise, I guess I'd go with McCormick. Sounds like he has the stuff to dazzle for a short period, but - for various reasons - there are serious questions if he's ever going to be able to maintain it for any length of time.

by Merry CRasmus on Jan 9, 2008 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

miles

the rockies signed marcus giles to a minor league deal today. would've much preferred him over miles. saw a comparison of the two at redbirdblog.com. what's larussa thinking with this guy?!

by oquendorocks on Jan 9, 2008 5:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

just off the cuff

and i'm very late to the party, but...

david freese

and

luke gregerson

I hate... so much about the things that you choose to be.

by erik on Jan 9, 2008 6:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

My Picks

Tyler Herron and Joe Mather. Don't have time to say why but i think they'll both be pretty good.

by AlberttheKing23 on Jan 9, 2008 6:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Great topic and even better responses. Very tough choices.

I am going to go with JOSE MARTINEZ in a close one over Alan Craig. (I would have taken Ludwick or Rasmus, but I don't think it will be a huge surprise if they come out hot.)
SLEEPER: Jimenez...Oquendo may just kick his flaky ass into shape.

RON FLORES will be the most effective reliever in camp, but pitch very few innings. (Much like Gene Nelson or a few others over the years)

Parisi is the favorite for this in the media and is a Duncan kind of guy. Worrell is likely a specialist and could be very effective in September. (sidewinder against righties)
SLEEPER: John Wasdin
Parisi has supporters in the media.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jan 9, 2008 7:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

surprises

For a position player i like Jon Jay. definitely a fallen off the radar type of guy. Unfortunately, outfield is still a position that has a lot of guys who all do a lot of the same things. On the mound, i like no one in particular; i guess i'll back a guy like mortensen who has had limited success but a lot of upside

At least he's better than Esteban Yan

by jacksonian on Jan 9, 2008 7:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Spring Suprise?

Scott Rolen refuses to go to Spring Training.

I will be boxer briefs

by Hardcore Legend on Jan 9, 2008 7:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

nice

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punchinjudy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Jan 9, 2008 8:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

travis mitchell

i'm glad the red baron pointed out travis mitchell. i graduated high school and played varsity baseball with him. he's a very talented athlete (who was also our high school quarterback; just shows you how athletic he really is) who i think has a shot in the future to continue to improve. i've enjoyed checking on his professional baseball career progression and hope he continues to improve. he's a good friend of mine and it's just awesome to see him get some vivaelbirdos recognition. go cards!

by mstreeter06 on Jan 9, 2008 9:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The radar has improved

to the point where it's hard to fly under it. The names that most people are throwing around (full credit for naming Mitchell, who's an exception) hardly qualify as under-the-radar types; you can see them all coming, courtesy of the vastly improved coverage and awareness of the minor leagues that the blogosphere has allowed.

Motte seems like a good pitching choice, but truth be told, I think the correct answer on the batting side is "none of the above." Absolutely nobody will be surprised if Rasmus forces his way onto the 25-man, and for any of the others to really stage a surprise seems unlikely to me. I'd hope for Steve Hill to do it, so put me down as in his corner, but I ain't holdin' my breath.

Footnote: Pujols in 2001 wasn't that big a surprise. Everybody watching him knew he was going to be very good. The only real surprise was that he got there in 2001, not 2002.

by StanTheManFan on Jan 9, 2008 9:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Off Topic:

Rob Neyer "listed the ten best individual seasons in baseball. i like rob neyer, but i have to say i was pretty upset that stan musial's 1948 mvp season was excluded.

he led the league in all of the following stats (baseball-reference): hits (230), doubles (46), triples (18), extra base hits (103), rbi (131) runs scored (135), total bases (429), avg (.376), obp (.450), slg (.702), ops (obviously-1.152 and ops+ 200), runs created (192), times on base (312). The only major categories he didn't finish first were home runs (39) and stolen bases (7). He was third in homers and actually had one taken away that he'd hit in a cancelled rain-out so the stats got erased. he also had a total of 34 strikeouts. 34 strikeouts with 103 extra base hits. has that ever happened?

i know he's a legend of mythic status among cardinal fans, but this season surpasses any legend i've heard. i simply can't believe there were ten seasons better than that one.

by birdsonthebat on Jan 9, 2008 10:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

wrong link for neyer

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=3187711

by birdsonthebat on Jan 9, 2008 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

meh.

Unfortunately, Neyer's column is based primarily, (as are most all time greatest lists) on who hit a ton of home runs. Nice job by him to pick out the Honus Wagner season and all, but Pedro over Gibson's 68? How about Dennis Eckersley in 1990? (I believe that's the year he had an era well under 1.00 and only walked about four batters; someone correct me if it was 89 instead.) Or Herschiser, when he broke Drysdale's mark? Rogers Hornsby setting the modern batting record at .424 in 1924? It's a nice column, but including Bonds' 2002 and excluding literally dozens of better, more impressive performances removes a lot of the credibility he might have had for me. Colour me uninspired.

You little punks think you own this town.

by the red baron on Jan 10, 2008 2:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Position Players?

Could someone list what positions the aforementioned guys play?, such as Mitchell?

by stlewis11 on Jan 9, 2008 10:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Mitchell is a CF

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jan 10, 2008 2:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

excellent point

Sorry about that, stlewis. Mitchell, my guy, is an outfielder. He's played primarily center so far; he's wicked fast.

Some of the other guys who have been mentioned on here:

Hoffpauir is a 2b
Jose Martinez- ss
Allen Craig and Freese are both third basemen
John Jay, Joe Mather,Ryde Rodriguez (pronounced Ree-day, by the way) and Jon Edwards are all outfielders
Mark Hamilton and Steven Hill are both first basemen. I think that Hill was given some time behind the plate this season, but I'm not sure how serious that notion is. If he were to stick at catcher, his bat would suddenly catapult him up into being a pretty serious prospect.
Nick Derba is a catcher.

Sorry if I forgot anyone; hope that helps you!

You little punks think you own this town.

by the red baron on Jan 10, 2008 3:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My soft Hill prediction

was in fact based on the possibility that his conversion to catcher will work. I don't know that it's been taken all that seriously (after all, he was at QC with Nick Derba, who btw is another possible nominee for this role), but remember that a whole passel of catchers get spring-training invites so that the pitchers will have someone to throw to. It wouldn't be impossible for Hill to get one and then have people notice, "hey, this guy can hit."

As for others, no offense to Cody Haerther, but if he's our best candidate for a where-did-that-come-from moment, we are screwed.

by StanTheManFan on Jan 10, 2008 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not to big on

John Edwards, a 58 year old OF, although he doesn't look that old in the debates. I guess he will have more time to work on his game after the primarys.

I think the biggest surprise of the spring may be a trade, Scotty I'm looking at you. Kill the ball early, look healthy and Mo will make your deams of a Tony free life come true. MLBTR is reporting that the Giants may have intrest in him or Joe Crede.

by That's a Winner on Jan 10, 2008 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

couple more

Cody Haerther is an outfielder. He's had avery interesting winter, having been taken on a waiver claim by Toronto, released, and then picked back up by the Cards. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of his.

Tyler Greene is a shortstop, and the biggest disappointment in the system for me personally. He's got ridiculous tools, and no results to show for it. Verrry frustrating.

Amaury Marti is Chuck Norris's bodyguard. He also serves as a balancing force against the universe's tendency toward entropy. In many primitive cultures, cave paintings have been found of Marti. Most refer to him as "the Eater of Worlds.". He's also an outfielder.

You little punks think you own this town.

by the red baron on Jan 10, 2008 3:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

...man, thats low!

Sorry to hear you doubtin' on Marti and low balling his potential.

If we can't be good, can we at least be lucky?

by cardschinmusic on Jan 10, 2008 4:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just a suggestion...

When you say something like

"By the way, you should check out the rotoworld sidebar", you should really include a link, because a lot of people have no idea what you are talking about (I know I don't)

by DiscoJer on Jan 9, 2008 11:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs